starofthesea:

Be prepared to be greatly disappointed. Ortega has gotten pretty corrupt as has much of the Sandanista Party and no sort of justification will be able to cover it up. Also, there have been some pretty ugly and serious charges concerning his personal behavior that seem to have substance.

One more point about Dear Departed Ron: Early in his career, at the height of the McCarthy Era Red Scare, he was elected president of the Screen Actors Guild (SAG). During that time he worked as an FBI informant smearing many SAG members and other Hollywood movie people as disloyal subversives, i.e. "commies and reds."

Perfect training for what US presidents have become.

I was thrilled to read Herbert's column this morning, which is an obvious response to David Brooks' column of November 9 titled "History and Calumny." Brooks opens his piece, about Reagan's Philadelphia campaign speech thusly:

"Today, I'm going to write about a slur. It's a distortion that's been around for a while, but has spread like a weed over the past few months. It was concocted for partisan reasons: to flatter the prejudices of one side, to demonize the other and to simplify a complicated reality into a political nursery tale."

Conservatives like Brooks can't have their ideological messiah being sullied by anything closely resembling the truth. Modern Republican Conservatism was founded on the reaction of the white South against the Civil Rights movement. That racist anger was harnessed into the political machine that brought us right to where we are today. This doesn't mean that all republicans are racist. But the willingness to use racism to achieve your own ends is just as bad.

Maybe even worse.

Ronnie the Ray-gun is second only to Gee-dumbya as the WORST President in my lifetime. Racist, homophobic, mean-spirited and a liar. Continuous efforts by the Rethuglican spin macine at cannonization turn my stomach. Ray-gun laid the groundwork for the insufferable political mess we languish in today. The Great Communicator was nothing more than a well-compensated "B" movie actor whose greatest role was playing the President of the United States. He should have stuck with chimps, instead of sticking us with one.

Good points, but "Reagan was wrong, insensitive and mean-spirited on civil rights" and virtually all other issues and created real harm to nearly everyone on earth excepting economically elite white Americans and the corporate oligarchy.

Reagan was quite possibly the beginning of the end for human civilization and even the human race.

I think we should have a very large statue of Reagan with Bonzo so we have something to throw eggs at. Around the pedestal would be sculptures of dead bodies from El Salvador, Nicaragua and Lebanon.

tj-----would be interested in knowing where you got yourinfo on Ortega. Not as a challenge, just a point of information as to your sources Could you provide a link?

The 1980 election was the first I was eligible to vote in. A young conservative, I favored Reagan, and while I was generally in favor of 'free market' ideas, I already knew that they were not a cure-all; and I could see that the businessmen were more patriotic about their bank balance than they were about the lives of soldiers. Perhaps having to be one of the first of the post-Vietnam generation to have to sign up with the Selective Service in case of a future draft had something to do with it -- plus the fact that it was plain that the angry saber-rattling over Iran had less to do with national humiliation than it had to do with oil politics.

It took another decade & a half to discover how acceptable, how in demand racism was among movement conservatives; there was a sort of contest to see how much outrage you could get away with among friends, or in semi-public places, and not get caught. George Allen's "macacca" comment, the various nods & winks -- like nooses hung up for "jokes" haha -- are all expressions of that endemic nasty-naughty-boy am-I-or-am-I-not-you-can't-catch-me white supremacism. Like the hatred of gays, it demands the actual presence of members of the hated group in order to be effective; so Rethugs learned that appointing women or minority figures in visible positions would turn aside criticism. One can only wonder what goes on in the minds of the Malkins, D'Souza's, Clarence Thomases and company, when they promote third-class citizenship for non-whites.

"The suggestion that the Gipper didn't know exactly what message he was telegraphing in Neshoba County in 1980 is woefully wrong-headed. Wishful thinking would be the kindest way to characterize it."

Or, even better, doublethink.

It's ironic that the neocons and Reaganites like to think that Ronald brought down the "Iron Curtain" all by himself, when in actuality the Soviet Union was going broke from fighting a war in of all places Afghanistan!
But the "were an Empire now" America, is not only fighting there, but also in Iraq, and very soon in Iran. Think our "empire" can keep this up much longer?

Bob Herbert always makes me think.
I never understood why so many seemed to love Ronnie. He closed hospitals for the mentally ill turning them on the streets. Hence the thousands of homeless today.
His "smaller government" is a shell game. We simply hire contractors to do the job career civil service used to do.
He changed the Federal retirement system so that no one under the new plan can count on a secure old age. IRAs look good -- but eliminating the old defined retirement system will foist poverty on millions of Americans who worked hard during their careers and deserve better. That's Ronnie -- style over substance.
His presidency was an absolute disaster in my view. That he was also a racist is just more proof of his poor leadership skills.

Never forget that Ronnie was the beginning of the new age of "conservatism", and the skillful consolidation of an already weak (in terms of independence) media. This consolidated media then glorified the ignoramous Reagan, who is to this day considered a "great" president. Undoing Reagan, with the media as consolidated and controlled by corporate interests as it is today, will be a tough row to hoe. Good luck.

"It's ironic that the neocons and Reaganites like to think that Ronald brought down the "Iron Curtain" all by himself, when in actuality the Soviet Union was going broke from fighting a war in of all places Afghanistan!"

That's one of the things they take credit for, but it was Zbigniew Brzezinski who persuaded Carter to start funding mujahidin after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. As early as 1970, Andrei Amalrik predicted that the USSR could collapse before 1984; and had the US departed Vietnam in 1968, the collapse of the USSR would've likely come sooner.

Reagan's success was the result of 17 years of anguish, beginning with John Kennedy's murder; and candidates couldn't put a happy face on the events that spiralled off from that. Reagan went around saying "Gosh aren't we great, it's just stupid liberals who look at all this stuff and feel responsibility for it! Let's just buy lots of submarines and missiles and jets and bombers and super-phaser-thingies that'll shoot down missles and get rid of the Soviet Union and then we can spend ourselves into Paradise."

The quarter-century fratboy party is over, with incalculable damage done & to come.

Yes, yes and yes, all of you are correct in saying that Reagan was a disaster for our Nation BUT like GW we voted the bastard(s) into office-whats that say about us the voting public? One can pussy-foot around Bush's first election, that Bush was chosen by the Supreme court but if we had an educated electorate it would have been "no contest".

Reagan was an actor and, like most actors, lived a precarious life (you're only as good as your last picture) until he was adopted by the corporatocracy as their spokesman. He learned his lines well and actually managed to get over on the American sheeple. For this feat, he is venerated by racists, fascists, greed freaks, and other assorted nitwits across this great country.

Great discussion re: The Gipper! Remember: JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS! All the while, he had Ollie North getting drugs from Nicauragua to fund that dirty little war. THE RESULT of Ollie's efforts: Heroin prices dropped like a rock in the USA and the purity went up dramatically.

REAGAN BROUGHT A GREAT INCREASE IN DRUG ABUSE AND LOWERED THE COST DRAMATICALLY!

Barn Burner wrote:
"Yes, yes and yes, all of you are correct in saying that Reagan was a disaster for our Nation BUT like GW we voted the bastard(s) into office-whats that say about us the voting public? One can pussy-foot around Bush's first election, that Bush was chosen by the Supreme court but if we had an educated electorate it would have been "no contest"."

Yes, and like GW there are nagging questions even to this day--i.e., the Iran hostage situation--concerning the legitimacy of his election and the fairness of his campaign--thank you Lee Atwater (burn in hell). But you are correct, the American voter ALWAYS chooses style over substance, bullshit over brilliance.

Ronnie's "oldtimers" must have been contagious. Now the whole friggin country can't remember straight!

I've gotten sick and tired of the repeated cliché that even those who disagreed with Reagan liked him. For reasons like the above, he was actually disliked by very many people, and they weren't afraid to express their dislike.

For instance, when Hinkley shot him, school children laughed, clapped, and cheered. I was in sixth grade at the time and when our teacher told us that he had been shot, many of the students in my class clapped and one girl said "I hope he dies!" Our teacher gave us one hell of a lecture about how we should respect him because he's the President, even if we don't like him or agree with him (the sort of lecture that you would never forget sitting through). This sort of reaction must have been pretty common, as news stories on TV and in the newspaper reported children clapping and cheering the assassination attempt at schools around the country.

Clore

Re: Respect the office if not the man. It's a shame none of your classmates pointed out that in using that arguement the teacher is claiming that even people like Hitler, Kaiser Bill, Tsar Nicholas II and Idi Amin should also have respect due to their offices... Of course that would likely have resulted in a nice trip to the principles office to meet Mr. Strap.

I'm older than most of the above and had one of those great maps illustrating Reagan's worldview - goodguys, commies, and us.
Also had the privilege of traveling through Nicaragua in '93. The country speaks English on the Carribean coast, Spanish in the west. So, here I was, on the bus, passing through the countryside in Spanish speaking Nicaragua when we came upon a giant billboard that read (in English) - "JUST SAY NO." My first thoughts - what fund of US taxpayer money paid for it, and what corporation put it up?

Yes, rlb97080 November 13th, 2007 1:50 pm, and let's not forget the serious discussions about indicting George Bush I for conspiracy to introduce & spread the usage of 'crack' cocaine into this country...INDICTMENT AFTER LEAVING OFFICE, BTW. Duh-bya needs to keep in mind he will still be liable for prosecution...and his co-conspiratorial cronies as well. Karma is never denied, and time is no protecting factor. I sure wouldn't want to be either one of them in a next lifetime.

Today Fred Thompson was on CSPAN touting that same old tired crap about "Trickle down economics". Haven't these idiots learned that only works if you have an ever expanding military budget, which means the warmongers constantly seek places to try out their new 'toys', or someone is fudging the books. They can make claims until they are blue in the face, but the stock market is not a true representation of mainstream American financal conditions.

How about we try 'percolate up' for a change so the rising tide floats more than just yachts?

hereontheres---- Just thought I'd tell you that I was in Nicaragua, too atround the same time with a delegation of farmers. We had the privilage of seeing firsthand the devastating effects of the US embargo against the Sandanista govt and the Nicaraguan people.

I fell in love with the country and its people and admired their revolutionary spirit and their attempts to improve things for all the people.

Was sickened by the electoral defeat of Ortega, and the apparent squashing of a popular movement, but Ortega is back and hopefully has not lost his commitment to change, not his revolutionary spirit.

Before the democrats pat themselves on the back for being so racially sensitive, it should be remembered that in 1980 Neshoba county and all of Mississippi at the time, was run by the democrats. And had been for 100 years

Recall that Jeb Bush played the same game in Florida, once telling an African American journalist who asked him what he would do for black people, "probably nothing." Actually what he did was worse than nothing: he illegally disenfranchised 100,000 of them, thus swinging the 2000 presidential election, with a little help from a pliant Supreme Court majority, to his n'er do well brother. He executed quite a few, too.

But the Bushes remember their friends. It's been overlooked that Bush provided jobs for Rehnquist's daugher, Scalia's son and Thomas's wife. Any lower court judge whose family accepted lucrative employment from a recent litigant in whose favor the judge had ruled would be removed from office, but we haven't heard a whimper about this travesty.

RichM---thanks for the link--I read it and wept. I met with Ortega and Fr.D'Escota when in Nicaragua ---must have been 1989----Ortega was still President. And I was impressed with what he seemed committed to doing. Seems he has changed a great deal and what I found most crushing was the news of the anti-abortion legislation. My eyes are wide open and I guess I have no real hope at the moment for Nicaragus's more rosy future. Sad, but thanks anyway for bringing me up to speed.

Let's not forget we have Reagan to thank for the idiot despot now destroying our country. Reagan annointed the godfather of the Bush crime family as his vice-president, giving him an easy segue into the presidency. With that cachet, Bush pere managed to browbeat the election and judicial machinery into crowning his failure-face, alcoholic spawn as the demagogue we now have.

Go to Barnes or Borders and see the incredible sea of Ron books and material, quotes, wisdom, bio's, etc. The number of chimp sightings have dramatically decreased. Repubs are desperately trying to resurrect the past, what they do best. As always for them, the path to the future goes through the past.
I don't think the ploy will work. Americans can be pretty dense sometimes, but we've never really been into revisiting the past. Been there done that.

There doesn't appear to be anything socialist about that website which had previously published the article which denigrated President Ortega. In fact, it seems geared to promoting the imperialist agenda, especially noticable in today's article about Bhutto and the current situation manufactured in Pakistan which has taken on such lustre.

Considering that Nicaragua is one of the staunch members of ALBA, which is the tool for Latin American integration, with the other members being Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia, it seems hardly plausible that Mr. Ortega has become a rightist. It would seem there are many hack pieces masqeurading as socialist so they can sow discord.

As for Ronnie Raygun, astute world leaders who had the unenviable duty of negotiating with him have declared that he was a "know nothing" and that his sole job was to play the part, notwithstanding the worshipful praise heaped on him by that other loser, Margaret Thatcher, in her memoirs. Whether he ever had a thought of his own since he was in public office is difficult to know, because dementia is a creeping disease and it certainly must have been afflicting him to some degree for all of his presidential years, at least.

The whole time Reagan was in office, homeless families were begging on every street corner as I drove to work. Not homeless adults. Homeless families. I've never seen it so bad before or since. That was when the "will work for food" signs first became popular because God forbid someone should just ask for a handout while Republicans are in charge. Social Darwinists run over panhandlers.

So when people laud Reagan, I always think of those children in shopping carts, watching while their parents panhandled the commuters. The "Greed is Good" 80s really weren't good for everyone. I'm sorry he seems a hero to some. He sure isn't to me.

Ronald Reagan was the biggest reason I quit voting Republican. I haven't been the slightest bit sorry since either. I am ashamed to say now that I voted for him in 84 (I didn't vote in 80). Much to my sorrow that was a terrible mistake I later learned. Mostly because at the time I was politically ignorant. I have since tried very hard to rectify the situation by keeping myself informed. As far as I am concerned Reagan is vying for the title of 'worst President' with George taking the lead away from him! He had to be the most mean-spirited nasty person which is why he welcomed people like Rush Limbaugh to the fold. He was only concerned about big business, star wars, military and Christian's! I won't vote for a Republican as dog catcher anymore. Even on city offices if they are affiliated in any way with that corrupt bunch I vote for who is running against them. That is literally the only way they will ever learn anything. Is if 'moral' American's stop voting for them completely.

I wonder what method of race-baiting the Republican nominee will use against Clinton( "America's first black first lady" ) or Obama? Probably something to do with terrorism and securing communities from those who have an implied racial resemblance to the dominant ethnicity of practicing Muslims. Nothing really changes except for the rhetoric that is currently politically correct.

peacemaker: Reagan was once a Democrat. It goes to show you how the politics of plutocratcy and autocracy (wealth and power respectively) trump all other ideology in the two corporate parties, or their common progenitor: the Republicrats.

I like to think of King George II as nationalizing the dynamics of Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" (a sort of Reaganesque California). The poor should own no equity at all, it should also be slowly stolen from the middle-class, people can be displaced/foreclosed at will, the unnamed banks/corporations/castes own real estate. Employers artificially advertise for more jobs than are needed, causing a race to the bottom for wages (IT, manufacturing and construction sectors being examples today). Bring in outsiders to further lower wages.

Ensure that only the wealthy are allowed to make money. "Having money already" is far more important than expertise, ability to work/earn it, etc.

"Supply side economics" is just another name for age-old tyranny.

David Brooks gurgles incessantly about what he illustrates as a virtuous Republican party and its member politicians. He is completely predictable on the Nightly News Report. The truth of his charge against "liberal" commentators for criticizing Ronald Reagan's belief in "state's rights" with the inherent implication of racist doctrine was suspiciously less complicated than Brooks avowed allowing the impression of intentionality. We cannot be supposed to ignore Brooks' permanent ultra-conservative posture and that he fans the heat of conservative politics with every article he either writes or discussion in which he participates. He knows exactly what he is doing as did Reagan. I completely agree with those who are calling for a crumbling of the "big, strong, Great-Communicator-who-relied-on-cue-cards, Reagan image and think that needs to be done at every instant given as an opportunity. And we must not forget that his media architect, Deaver was convicted of three counts of perjury and that Reagan was called "a pitch-man for corporate raiders and the man who allowed greed to become a virtue."

If you need information on the Gipper, the following is a site that will give you tons of food for thought that seems to have originated in England, but then Europeans often have a better looking glass than we do…

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAreagan.htm

what's with the republicans? they keep electing dumb stumps to lead their party.

Does anyone who is allowed to make a serious run for the presidency of the U.S. care "two flips" about the truth? The only reason that a woman and a black are allowed to run for the presidency this year is because the criminal mafia which runs the U.S. is desperate to change their image after the debacle of not being able to pacify Iraq quickly and have their vile crimes subside in the electorate's collective mind. It's the same strategy they employed after the exposure of Nixon when they manipulated Carter into the white house, but they never changed their modus operandi then and they won't in the future when the woman or the black is elected.

John R said: "I wonder what method of race-baiting the Republican nominee will use against Clinton( "America's first black first lady" ) or Obama?"

I know that every time Obama comes up in your average forum, somehow there is a person right on the spot to claim he is a radical Muslim, more sympathetic to brown people than to... well, right-minded people who aren't. Every single time. On busy forums where the slur gets pushed down the page, the same person comes back and pushes the idea again. It seems so determined and pervasive.

And just yesterday, my neighbor sent me an email saying Hillary was the attorney who "freed the murdering Black Panthers." After its inflammatory tale of woe was a tag line that said "Snopes has verified this to be true." I checked. The email has been going around for awhile and Snopes checked it, alright -- and said it is false.

The racial slurs are already circulating and, as usual, whoever is generating the strategy does not care two flips about the truth.