I e-mailed Conyers to.

And Pelosi has no excuse, or the right taking Impeachment off the table. If she didn't think she could fight the good fight for the people who voted her a promotion in 2006 then her shallowness and doubletalk should not be rewarded with our trust.

Bring the measure to the floor every day. That's how Mike Gravel got rid of the draft.

"Yet the Democrats are still frightened of these men and afraid to confront them."

They're not afraid of these men. Dems are afraid of losing their corporate funding.

ezeflyer, you have a point and I agree that the large majority are scared of loosing their $. I dont beleive Kucinich is one of them. That is why we need to support him and tell him exactly what we want him to do, no exceptions.

Michigan, you are so right: 10,000 letters dumped on the desks of our congressmen would make an impact!
______

#
Michigan November 8th, 2007 3:15 pm

I've noticed that most comments recommend sending e-mails and making phone calls to elected officials.

I'm not saying to stop doing that, but in my mind, the physical evidence of voter dissatisfaction would be harder to ignore in the form of letters. 1000, 5000, 10,000 and many more. Actual, hold in your hand envelopes by the bagful, is at the very least an inconvenience for the officials.

This visual evidence of dissatification is harder to ignore than easily deleted e-mails and phone calls that never get past the outer office.

Hundreds of thousands of letters in post office bags is an image even the corporate media just might make mention of.

Let's push writing letters as much as e-mails and phone calls.

I have to say that I kind of dissagree with the sentament that all of these calls and letters will do anything. If this congress has done anything they have shown us just how good they are at ignoring us. What they cant ignore is media coverage. They know better than we do that of the people that vote (less than 50%) of those only a very small number actually pay any attention other than small sound bits in the MSM. That is why this privaliged resolution is such a cool thing. If Dennis were to get really angry and start bringing it to the floor like Gravel did with the draft then it would get the media hyped up. This is what the Dems cannot ignore. Letters, email, phone calls. They figure that these are all the result of that scant few that actually pay attention but dont actually represent that much of the voting population. Got to beat them at their own game. Make it stand out in a way that cannot be left alone any longer.

Michigan, if you're still 'here', tell me again how letters are going to help. If they can ignore physical protests, blot out phone records and refuse to return calls or otherwise acknowldege you're speaking to them-how do you know letters will have any impact at all. I mean for Pete's sake, we can't even find out how many brave souls died for us today.

Sign me frustrated in Shepherd, MI.

Media Sam Bagis-use Media?!>? Are you kidding me? We're the people, we can't afford media-have you even heard about the vote on CNN. Maybe they put it out there but by damned, you don't hear about it now. The media is complicit in this mess, the price for us to get our message out is likely X times higher than Dubya's bill to have O'Reilly tell you you're dreaming.

We're in serious shit here folks and I don't know about you but for the first time, I feel very, very vulnerable. And I can't talk about it with anyone in Mid Michigan, I mean, damn-"we can't impeach, it'll ruin our chances in '08". It's shameful of all of them to think 'party' at this stage of the game and scary because they're likely the ones you'll have to take up arms on first when they come to get your stash of food when shit hits the fan in our neck of the woods.

My word, Bill from Saginaw-I just re-read what you said. Is that really a viable course-if so, why are you the first one to put that out there? In all this time, I think this is the first time I've seen that and have to wonder where our 'scholars' are on this....

Maiden,
Im not suggesting that we use the media. What Im saying is read my earlier posts. By bringing the measure to the floor again and again the media will not be able to ignore the issue forever and at some point the issue of the VPs actions will have to be discussed. Thats my point about the media, this is the perfect way to make them give the issue coverage.

As for Bill's comment its of course viable but we still dont have any idea that Conyers or the like have any real interest in stirring the water. On the contrary we have not seen any real work being done by these folks that would give us the indication that they would be willing to take Bill's suggested track. Again the only one that has been consistant is our boy K.

While our incompetant and petulant leaders play "gotcha" politics, people are dying and are being crippled and maimed each and every day. The economy is tanking, the world is warming, and Bush chuckles over WWIII. A pox on all of them!

Pelosi could refuse to accept the Presidency if Bush and Cheney were impeached. She could paraphrase Lyndon Johnson: "If nominated I will not run. If elected I will not serve." For her, impeachment is off the table because she is a contemptible coward.

cokids, Beck is one of the "kill em all" crowd and he is very dangerous. He and the others like him are getting very desperate as they see their Republican champions losing badly in '08. There was no war for 8 years under Clinton. How is a neocon supposed to react to that happening again? Beck, Hannity, and the others are going to do their worst to stop the Democrats. But their message is beginning to fall on deaf ears. We can only hope for another few years without a right wing warmonger. God knows Bush has killed enough.

"My final message to the many of you who are liberal progressives, who have begun to spit out the Democratic Kool-Aid, is this: We Ron Paul folks will warmly greet you whenever you finally get enough, and come to join our side."

Paul,

I understand your frustration. There are many here who have spit out the Kool-Aid, but there are still many who haven't. C'est la vie, my friend. We are all necessary, so I hope after a little R & R, you'll be back.

I don't have the answer other than to do what you can where you are.

Peace

AdeleTheCzech, Windward and others, the "self-serving" objection about Pelosi's succession to the presidency is absurd. Please stop repeating this.

The key point to understand about our government is that the President has the authority to appoint a Vice President should the office become vacant for any reason (historical example: Ford's appointment of Nelson Rockefeller).

If Cheney comes under a real threat of impeachment, we can be sure that he will resign-- Cheney is not the kind of person who lets himself be subjected to the rule of law.

Whether he resigns first, or is impeached and removed, Bush will appoint a replacement such as Condi, Jebbie, Rudy, or Lynne Cheney. The last thing a republican administration will ever do voluntarily is to pass control to a democrat.

The succession rule that elevates the speaker of the house to the presidency would come into effect only if BOTH the President and Vice President become incapacitated AT THE SAME TIME UNEXPECTEDLY, e.g., a tragic accident. If either one goes first, then the other one will appoint a replacement.

Here is another story you won'y see on cnn.
If true, it could be the undoing of Bush & Company!
http://www.worldreports.org/news/92_u.s._state_departmen

I pray it is true!

thedeed, given that you wrote "There was no war for 8 years under Clinton", it is apparent that you are not an Arab or a Slav. During Clinton's reign, Iraq was bombed on a weekly basis by the US, and Kurdish-controlled Northern Iraq was bombed by Turkey (the US provided them with a "no fly" zone to use in their ehtnic campaign against Kurds). Clinton's regime also was imposing brutal sanctions on Iraq that by 1996 (according to the UN) had taken the lives of 500,000 innocent Iraqis through disease, starvation, lack of medicine. When Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes asked secretary of state Albright whether the price of half a million lives was "worth it" to achieve US objectives-- with Stahl noting that this is more people than died in Hiroshima-- Albright answered "yes, we think the price is worth it".

Later Clinton was itching to try out the "humanitarian war" theory on Yugoslavia, the same theory that Bush made famous in Iraq. For those of you who don't know, Yugoslavia was the European equivalent of a cross between Venezuela and Cuba-- the one being hated for its modest success in implementing liberal principles, and the second for its Soviet communist connections. The existence of Yugoslavia represented an insult to what Clinton referred to euphemistically as "the international community", so it was targetted for destruction by NATO. A public relations campaign by the White House as well as by paid consultants of Albanian, Croatian, and Slovenian separatists was used to fire up the left in the US with claims of genocide that later proved to be false (sound familiar?).

So don't console yourself with the belief that Democrats are different from Republicans.

Impeachment ends the war!

All of these people took an oath to Uphold and Defend the Constitution, looks to me like they should all be recalled/prosecuted for ignoring those promises.

Pelosi and other Dem. leaders have taken impeachment off the table for one, primary reason: they see the Republicans all but self-destructing w/o the Dems having to do anything, so why take a big chance opening up a a big can of worms like an impeachment trial when they can get what they want (i.e. a Dem. president, and more Dems in the House and Senate) for free.

Sure, not impeaching ignores justice, mocks accountability, and sets horrific precedents. But the Dems don't care about those things any more than their Repub. twins; they care about getting in power. Period.

that's right fresh1 - all this claim of lost innocence is sad so sad.

Ron Paul and Gravel have some good ideas but have no chance of being elected. Paul came off very poorly in his speech to Bernanke today and Gravel has too many strikes against him. The only chance for change is a solid support of the one man with the guts and brains for the job and stop wasting effort on impossible persons. If all of us get solidly behind Kucinich, that is the possible solution for change that we need to have or we can kiss this nation goodby and end up on the worlds scrap heap.

If impeachment was going to actually work, it should have been started right after the '06 elections when the GOP was still scared from their losses and there was enough time to get it done. Once again, the Dems blew it. The token gesture from Kucinich is nice, but far too little too late.

If the past 7 years have not been enough to get the politicians and public fired up against empire and fascism sufficient enough to stop it, I doubt anything ever will. Of course, it hasn't been easy when you've had the juggernaut of the MSM running the propaganda, and there is the fear of assassination that is always held out towards the left as well, (ie: Wellstone, Callahan, anthrax to Daschel & Leahy, Ron Brown, JFK, MLK, RFK, many others).

It is our elected officials sworn duty to impeach when crimes have been committed.

Think impeachment is messy?

Try losing the Democracy.

Sincerely,
Susan Frishkorn, Pensacola

What "democracy", Susan? There hasn't been democracy in the US for decades, if really ever.

Wouldn't it be a kick if the House Judiciary Committee agreed to impeachment hearings, and Cheney pulled "a Nixon" and just resigned? And then they went after Bush, and he resigned before any hearings got started?

Which congressperson's turn is it to introduce a motion for impeachment tomorrow? Get that sign up sheet passed around, you good and honorable Congressfolks, daylight's burnin' here. Vite, vite!!

To the anonymous scribe from the Reformer,
you nailed it, Friend. We all know DKs ball
sack is larger than Cheney's (humongous)
Dennis should copy and paste HR333 into each
day's roster.

Future.me November 8th, 2007 1:59 pm,
I predicted 5 years ago that petrol
in the US will be 5 bucks a gallon
by the time Gdub leaves office...
(I friggin guarantee it here in Hawaii)

Personally I think the perpetrators
are all mad with power and wealth
blind to the future because that's
how active users are. Completely
dysfunctional, insane and without any
human remorse.

It's an Armageddon mindset, you know?

Anyway, thanks WhiteRose November 8th, 2007 1:36 pm
I acted and distributed your pertinent
info widely complete with pursuasive sentiment
to give to Champion Dennis Kucinich.

Seems to me that with 21 co sponsers to the Kucinich resolution that they could take turns in bringing to the floor impeachment of the vice.

Kucinich's move is dead on arrival, this is more theater from Democrats. Kucinich is yet again fooling the base into thinking the Democratic Party is somewhat 'serious' about the Constitution. Pelosi and Reid are in it together, while pretending to be against DK.

The only thing Democrats are really serious about is making the type of idiots who post at Democratic Underground believe they're an opposition party.

I spent over 20 minutes with a surprisingly candid Conyers phone tallier yesterday and consensus he gave was that calling the HJC was a for the most part a waste of time. He said they have a tally sheet which they turn in but that the members of the committee don't really pay any attention to it.

Basically he said a better way is to write your local representatives especially the newly elected DP members in border-line red states. After all it is our votes they want and the more they hear from their constituents the more comfortable they feel putting pressure on the committe and speaking out.

There is a site that will contact all your local reps and newspaper, plus the members of the committee automatically:
http://www.usalone.com/hres333.php

This might be the only chance we get to have any of these bastards held accountable, so we have to push hard.

I am not a lawyer. It seems to me, however, that it may behoove the American people to wait until the Republicans are out of office to prosecute them. Right now they have full use of all their illegally acquired executive privelege to thwart an investigation. Perhaps the Dems are banking on a Dem victory across the board in 2008 before they launch an effort to uncover teh truth.

" More important priorities like ending the war in Iraq." This is like saying after a bank robbery, "we know where the hideout is, but we need to stay in the bank to find the missing cash." If you want to end an illegal war, then you must interrupt the activities of the perpetrators. The leading House Dems are either cowards or collaborators.

By his behavior in this, Congressman Peter Welch has reveal as to where he stands on Mukasy and waterboarding, a bitter disappointment for those of us Vermonters who voted for for him and took some initial pride on his early stands in the House. But this amounts to the absence of major Democratic senators who ducked the issue and essentially became Republican voters for Mukasey, the stand-in for Gonzales. Very sad.

Mukasey

PAUL FROM TEXAS: Alas, do not leave us! This forum is enhanced from a diversified sector of viewpoints! This is not "we are authoritarians, central!"

REBEL FARMER: GREAT letter! Can others use it?

CO-KIDS: Good letter, too.

BILL FROM SAGINAW: Your strategy sounds right and solid to me. Now how to implement it?

Congressional Republicans unmask like illegal aliens looking for work visas... Republicans vote to impeach Cheney! Guess whose got your number now!?

Kucinich, the seeming noble, while traitorously employed, draws the dividing line for megacriminalities hacking facility... I think we'll see much more murderous identity theft afflict this congress as seems happened to D-Congressman (atheist) Stark. His "criminal war" tirade followed by an apology in his identity by someone with bigger ears and a different hair color...

Their having lived so money hungry it almost seems right that they (congressional republicans) pay so big (with their lives) for finally getting around to opposing the mega-finance-criminals. Mega criminals that they (congressional republicans) have for so long now bolstered their (mega-criminals) strength.

Maybe everyone will sit down for some tea and the whole military industrial complex will be dissolved by the essence of creative thought shared by congress and the financial mega criminals.

I'm guessing though the financial mega criminals will just nuke billions, congressional republicans included, then enforce years of robot attack jet bombing on any who attempts to dwell above ground.

Hopefully they'll be terminated by one of their chosen so the whole planet can get back around to living.

With regenerative medicine being what it is now though the presently dominant could be here psychologically demented as ever and physically well for tens of thousands of years...

So crazy as it is, we may be witnessing what is early in the earning of enormous reincarnative misery.

Is this place exciting, or what!?

My best guess is though, Utopia untethered from finance is just around the corner.

Get Direct Democracy
ni4d.org
Vote for national referendum.

Then demand elimination of finance and a move to calorie economics... Enforce with the weight of everyone exact and fair caloric remuneration for all work. Calorie economics = ( A Worker's Calories Spent Producing Direct Democratically Approved Products = The workers ability to draw products from the economy ).

To Pelosi I say:

TAKE OUT THE TRASH (by They Might Be Giants)

Girl! Why not take out the trash?
And once you get him out, tell him not to come back again.
Girl! Put that cat in the bin!
After what he said, after everything he did.

You had him figured out a while ago
And I know it's not exactly breaking news
But it's all been a little like a trial for you
And a bunch more talking won't make him true

Ah, c'mon, Girl! Why not take out the trash?
And once you get him out tell him not to come back again.
Girl! Why not give him the slip?
Get the crooked straight
Get the go-getter good and gone

Right! It's just plain that he's just making it up,
And he's still got you coming back for more.
Why you never ever think of breaking it up,
Tell me, what bad deal's gonna close that door?

Ah, c'mon, Girl! Why not take out the trash?
And once you get him out, tell him not to come back again.
Girl! Why not give him the slip?
Get the crooked straight
Get the go-getter good and gone

I'm not saying all the boys are the same
But some boys are the same and it's Thursday now
I'm not saying all the boys are the same
But some boys are the same and it's Thursday now
I'm not saying all the boys are the same
But some boys are the same and it's Thursday now

Girl! Why not take out the trash?
And once you get him out, tell him not to come back again.
Girl! Put that cat in the bin!
After what he said, after everything he did.

Girl! Why not take out the trash?
Girl! Why not take out the trash?
Ah, come on, Girl! Why not take out the trash?
And once you get him out, tell him not to come back again.

Girl! Why not give him the slip?
Get the crooked straight
Get the go-getter good and gone

How did our nation get to the point where we were forced to choose between a dangerous deluded incompetent in the White House and a pack of craven cowardly incompetents in Congress? It is beginning to look like we deserve the utter disaster that is befalling us.

The following is a press release from a Congresswoman in Florida.

Talk about the picture of a gutless, equivocating Democrat.

I don't know who this bitch thinks she represents --- but it sure as hell isn't the American people.

Her gutlessness regarding Kucinich's courageous action of impeachment against the international war criminal, and destoryer of American democracy, Dick Cheney, almost makes Pelosi look good by comparison.

Statement from Rep. Wasserman Schultz regarding H.Res. 333

November 6, 2007

(Washington, DC) -- "Impeachment is the most severe action that the Congress can take against the Executive Branch and the consideration of articles of impeachment must not be taken lightly. The charges outlined in H.Res. 333 calling for the impeachment of Vice-President Cheney are serious and deserve more than an hour of debate without the ability to present evidence. As such, I have voted to refer this resolution to the House Judiciary Committee so that the charges outlined can be heard and debated.

"Today, Congress also overrode the President's veto of the Water Resources Development Act, which among other things authorizes $2 billion for Everglades restoration as well as hurricane recovery and beach erosion funds. We are currently fighting to pass –against the President's objections and his veto, legislation that would provide health insurance for an additional 3.5 million American children, 230,000 more insured children in Florida alone. Working to end the War in Iraq, expanding SCHIP, passing the first increase in the minimum wage in 10 years, passing the largest veterans health care increase in the 77-year history of the VA, and passing a roughly $1 billion increase in Everglades funding, all of these are issues that Congress has been addressing since the Democratic-led 110th Congress began in January."

"Impeachment is a lengthy process which would divide Congress and this nation even more deeply than we are divided right now. Referring this resolution to the House Judiciary Committee is the constitutionally appropriate process that should be pursued."

What gutless babble, delay, and crap!

Unfortunately, this gutless bitch is on the Judiciary Committee.

To listen to a litany of her excuses and whining about what the Democrats have supposedly done since Nov '06 and why impeachment is 'off the table' click on the audio of her being interviewed on this progressive radio show:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/House_Dem_defends_leadership_decision_to_1109.html

I tried to email her to 'help or get out of the way', but her Congressional office doesn't allow any email outside her own district ----- ie. she's not interested in our views.

JohnR I loved your bank robbery analogy---so right on and sadly, exactly what seems to be going on as we sit here typing out our shared frustration.

Can't we get it? Why do we have to play this duopoly game, either the De Mock Rats or Repugnant Ones. Both of these corrupted parties are bought and paid for by the global corporations. So, why do the people continue to support them? Aren't we free people, free to associate as we wish?
What we desperately need are two more major parties, one the left, one on the right, that are not corrupted by corporate monies. Why do we continue to argue over who is the best Dem or the least worst Repub when we could just as easily be talking about who is the best alternative candidate to vote for? The best Dem or Repub is part of a corrupted party is therefor not able to represent the people. The people need to have the courage to look elsewhere.

i emailed the author of the article in the LA Times about the impeachment vote, where Dennis Kucinich was described as 'far left'. Turns out, wouldn't you know, that those words were inserted by her editor.
Buster

Watch/hear

KUCINICH: Takes House Floor, Moves for Cheney Impeachment
27 min -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJYbgouqlMw

============

5 min CNN
Interview with DK:

http://www.youtube.com/v/qJK6ApCcKPo&rel=1

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