As expected.....
"Pakistan's most important ally, the United States, criticized Musharraf, but indicated it was not planning to cut any of the billions of dollars it gives the country in military funding."

anney
--"How the hell does the US expect Musharraf to accomplish these goals?"

Musharraf has been playing the Americans like a finely tuned Stradivarus for the last 6 years. We were stupid enough to believe this dictator is any better then all that preceded him in Pakistan. Our only option is to strongly re-inforce democratic instituitions in Pakistan which we will never do because a 'democracy' (like in neighbouring India) is hard to control and has a mind of its own !

Musharraf can never really achieve these goals. If the largest most powerful army in the world with a budget thats a 100 times greater than any small third-world country cannot contain a broken country like Iraq, there is no way in hell Musharraf can control the border areas (which incidentally have never been controlled for 100's of years !!).

--"What do you think about Musharraf's ability to "do as he's told" and what's the plan if he fails?"

He has been doing as he is told as we are pumping him up with weapons and dollars (the curse of the third world) all these years. Now that there are chinks in his armour we are beginning to get cold feet.
This latest attempt by him to take back the few controls he gave up earlier have our (U.S.) blessings. But of course we cannot openly say it, so we need to protest and pretend we are committed to democracy and make all the necessary noises for a week till the story blows over. These events will repeat again. Different place same story !!

Musharraf will crush his opposition ( he is a dictator after all ) and play hardball with the Taliban and pacify the Taliban temporarily till the next elections and then business as usual !!

300 years of British Imperialism destroyed South Asia and we are completing the job.

Kem Patrick wrote; When they test a bunker buster bomb, it may contain more than a ton o of DU and when exploded in a bomb, all of the DU is ionized. Why on earth isn't that panicking anyone?

I guess because it is not a false flag operation. I agree with you 110% on the dangers of DU. But the Govt will not raise DU as an issue until it is used against us. Remember, the Govt supports the tobacco industry, evidence that they are not really looking after our best interests.

Nice way to be sick I suppose.

Kem Patrick,

Thanks for your support and the sage advice.

Years ago, one captain who flew for our airline tried to impress his girlfriend by using Viagra. He did not carefully read the instructions on the bottle, took too many pills, and had to use four of his sick days.

Claudius you have my full support. I ran for a city council seat once and won the primary. I discovered that politics really is dirty and much dirtier than I would have believed. There are many politicians, ___ few statesman.

You a gal GEOFF29? ___ I like you. Oops, here comes my gal gotta change screens. BTW, we have a license plate that reads ___ TWO Q TIPS.

WTF here is a link for Linda Faye Kroll, a wonderful gal who fights like a Spartan and has the gentleness and kindness of a great nurse.

It is just one link on the subject of the dangers of DU.

www.protecthawaii.ws/page2.html

IAMMYSELF, nope, don't need it yet, tried it once a couple of years ago and the pill stuck in the back of my throat. My neck froze and I couldn't turn my head for six hours.

WTF I tend to agree with you there, up to a point, but when you mention DU for use in a dirty bomb, I almost fell over. I agree with you 100% on that score except I seriously question any pancic it may cause.

Not only have the U.S. and the United Kingdom fired off thousands of tons of DU in Iraq and Afganastan, our military is using DU ammunition daily here in the United States on military ranges. When they test a bunker buster bomb, it may contain more than a ton o of DU and when exploded in a bomb, all of the DU is ionized. Why on earth isn't that panicking anyone? It damn sure should, but our government and military states that DU is harmless and the press refruses to cover the truth of it.

Linda Faye Kroll, a nurse in Hawaii, has been fighting the military there for years about the issue with little success. She is labeled as a crackpot by many and given little fair press coverage. Our troops who are sent to Iraq are coming home with all sorts of serious medical problems caused by radiation poisoning from inhaling ionized DU. As far as sneaking it into the country goes, DU can be purchased online, just Google depleted uranium and there it is, over one million sites to brouse on the subject.

"We have our years supply of food stashed and a copy of the book Possum Living, got our weapons readied and have a solar stove, lots of firewood, a tent, some water purification tablets, sleeping bags, plenty of aspirin, peoxide and viagara etc. But we hope to hell we never need it and it was all just stupidity to even thnk of such things."

Kem,

You've been married 52 years and don't need your viagra? Hell, I'm hoping I can say the same in another 26 years...or 10 years.

claudius November 4th, 2007 2:09 pm

running for political office in 2012.

that's a very auspicious year on the Mayan calendar.

And I vote for Kem Patrick as totally cool, and eternally youthful! but I'm not so sure your food supply will hold out long enough.

In the meanwhile, o ye of little faith. . .

Kem: I have seen those you asked about posting here and there. But you know how real life can be...

Kem Patrick wrote: Like an erector set, you don't have to carry the entire thing in one suitcase.

You are correct, but the argument is specious. A battleship could be broken down and carried in suitcases. The term suitcase bomb really applies to a complete weapon. The last compact nuke in the US armory that I know of was the M159/W54 demolition munition. This had an adjustable yield from 10 tons to 1 Kt, weighed 150 lbs and took 2 men to emplace.
Really, not very large.

IMHO, dirty bombs would be far easier to smuggle and emplace. There is a suitable supply of DU from unexploded shells in Iraq. Smuggled into the country and enveloped by a sphere of thermite that could be sourced locally, fusing would be trivial (same as with IEDs) as all that would be required would be to boil the DU before detonation to distribute the product. Put it in a Cessna, detonate at 5,000' over a city. Don't even need to fly into a building. Absolute panic for 50 miles downwind.

'Musharraf Imposes Emergency Rule; Suspends Pakistani Constitution'

Is this not exactly what George W. Bush has done? In the 'Land of the free'?

Confused from London ....

I should add that I very cautiously am using the term "ownership," especially keeping in mind the indigenous peoples who inhabited and continue to inhabit this land.

Kem,

I too have similar thoughts and likewise feel that my country has been stolen from me. A couple of days ago, I put up a brief post saying that I am considering running for political office in 2012. I have not yet decided which particular office for which I would like to run (it definitely will not be for the School Board). Those considerations are getting stronger on daily basis to the point where I feel that I am obligated to retrieve what has been stolen from all of us. Should I make the determination (which will be soon), I am going to need all the support I can get from everyone here on CD. I know how to bring this country back on course and restore its vitality and ownership to those who genuinely care about it.

gyptian

Thanks for the links. You're correct that I don't always find the best sources for information, though I try.

But I'm still puzzled. So, okay, let's say Musharraf made this move at the behest of the US government to accomplish the following objectives:

....the Taliban must be administered a fatal blow militarily. The fundamentalists must be purged of Al Qaida elements. That's a tall order. It cannot be achieved without a total military assault. That required either Martial Law or the imposition of Emergency. http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20071103&fname=emergency&sid=1

How the hell does the US expect Musharraf to accomplish these goals? Is he going to wipe out the Pakistani citizenry, fundamentalist or not, who revolt against this move? And why purge the fundamentalists of al Qaeda elements alone? Aren't the fundamentalists all loosely-connected in aims? I just don't think these "goals" can be accomplished unless Bush sends the cavalry to the rescue, and he ain't got much of a cavalry to send.

What do you think about Musharraf's ability to "do as he's told" and what's the plan if he fails?

Amerikkka WILL repent, as soon as all those WAR BABIES are born without noses, and millions of innocent
brown people are sick with leukemia, all from the DUh.

GWB- and his Gulf War Babies will take us all down a long road before this is over.

It would be cleverly Ironic if it wasnt so horrible. War Is Hell.. toylit

Hi GALEN, thank you for the welcome back and am glad to see you are still here. Where is Siouxrose, Aaymon, Paul Magill Smith, Kathyodat, Billy___y4, Rebel Farmer, and so many others?

We call him STARFISH. For the truth is, a starfish is a very destructive creature, that does not have a brain.

anney
The first thing you need to do to understand South Asia politics is to stop reading western media assessment of any situation or their overbearing 'how can we be wrong' attitude. So Time and Washpost and all that nonsense for the most part flies out the window. U.S. mainstream media does not question our motives, they accept as the holy truth any crap that the establishment spits out.
Tariq Ali is a great source for info (interview in Democracy now) as well as Asia Times
ex http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IJ26Df01.html
or http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20071103&fname=emergency&sid=1

For instance, as Rajinder Puri points out,
'Musharraf's decision to impose Emergency came in the wake of consultations with Admiral William J Fallon, US commander of CENTCOM, who reached Pakistan on Thursday to discuss war on terror in Pakistan and Afghanistan. '

Just a name correction: In Pakistan they now call him Busharraf.

Kem: Welcome back.

And welcome to the brave new world. Between climate change, peak oil, and governmental insanity, I have the sad feeling all of our supplies will come into play far sooner than we thought we would need them.

My wife of 52 years and I are retired now, we're enjoying life as much as possible, fishng at every opportunity, feeding and watching the birds that are still here, every day is Saturday or what ever day we wish it to be. I can sleep in or get up at two am and sit out on the deck with a hot toddy and gaze at the stars if I so desire, and I often do. I write books and read a lot. It was fun until about three months ago.

For some reason that I cold not put a finger on, in spite of having few if any worries, I became unsettled internally. Naturally I was, and am disturbed and disgusted with our present government and the unjust war with Iran, the spread of DU, the sudden much higher cost of everything from peanut butter to gasoline, ___ but that wasn't it. Somethng else was very wrong besides all of those serious things.

I believe I now know what it is, today I arose, had my morning coffees, walked the dog and cat and thought about it. It dawned upon me that I feel as if this is not my country anymore, I'm just a renter. I've lost my country, we all have and we're just paying rent to live here on a desirable land on a month to month basis. That is exactly how I feel and wonder how long it will be, before the landlord decides to evict me or make me move to another place and tell me what I can have and what I cannot have.

We have our years supply of food stashed and a copy of the book Possum Living, got our weapons readied and have a solar stove, lots of firewood, a tent, some water purification tablets, sleeping bags, plenty of aspirin, peoxide and viagara etc. But we hope to hell we never need it and it was all just stupidity to even thnk of such things.

I fear it will be necessary to be prepared however. What happened to America, to our way of life? ___ We know what happened, and it's our own fault.

Anney: Al Qaeda was a joint creation of the US CIA and Pakistan's ISI inteligence services as a measure to fight the Soviet Union during that country's invation and occupation of Afghanistan.

Pakistan recieved nuclear weapons technology from the US. Pakistan is also one of the US's largest buyers of 'conventional' small arms.

Isn't blowback fun?

Tetti: Agreed on the US domestic staged 'terrorist' event. And with the convergence of Blackwater mercs, Halliburton 'detention facilities' and Microwave Area Denial systems ready to go, I think all the ducks are in a row for the penultimate neo-con power grab.

Right after the US population reacts in horror to the total loss of oil from the middle east after the US pre-emptively attacks Iran.

Me? I have a bug-out bag ready, and my freinds and ladies are ready to head for the tall timber.

Well, here are two reports about Musharraf that were published earlier this year that may explain somewhat why he decided to "impose emergency rule" yesterday.

Pakistan is a very unstable country under his leadership, because despite Musharraf's promise to cooperate with the Bush administration in running down al Qaeda members, he has encouraged the Taliban, who in turn support al Qaeda's actions. Dissidents are all over Pakistan, not just on the borders, and he's been the target of many assassination attempts by anti-American factions. No doubt he's in an impossible position no matter what he does, so he must have taken the step he believes is the one most likely to ensure his own survival, even at the cost of losing US economic support. I think he has nowhere to run.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187204,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/21/AR2007032101786.html

This has all been planned and executed with the blessing and guidance of Bush & Cheney as part of the Tausendjähriges Reich ("Thousand-Year Empire") that they have been dreaming for decades.

There'll be an event of catastrophic consequences on American soil in the next months that will install Marshall Law in the US for a thousand years. And Congress will applaud the measure. George Lucas saw it coming a few years ago: ""So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause."

I agree with those who believe this MAY have been a test for Cheney and company. ___ We'll find out soon enough. Thank you once again, Namcy and Conyers, for what you have failed to do.

On a prior post I jokingly wrote, ___ "If Wal-mart was giving flu shots, they were probably made in China". Well lo and behold, on this mornings news, Dr. Gupta explaines that 50% of the ingredients used by our pharmacutical companes are made in China, both prescription ad over the counter drugs and there is no suitable way for our government to check the quality of the imported ingredients. Just another screwed up mess that has happened since Bush and company stole the elections.

Galen

== This was about as unexpected as a brick falling to the ground.

What I didn't take into account was the strength of anti-American factions that have either been born in or have gathered in Pakistan, though I was aware that al Qaeda is thick on the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan and crosses freely between them. But Musharraf's power-grab will certainly rally a great many Pakistanis to the side of pro-Islamic forces, seeing Musharraf as an evil puppet of the anti-Islamic US administration if they didn't already.

I don't know enough background on this to make sense of it. Why now did Musharraf make such a dangerous move? The US had sent Bhutto in to be the candidate for his position in the next election, and she would have supported his participation in some other position in the new government. Something must have happened to make him take this step, and I wonder what it was.

And yes, indeed, Pakistan has nukes.

"Freedom is on the march."

Unlike Pelosi, Musharraf doesn't take the Constitution off the table one Article at a time. Nancy Pelosi are you paying attention? Go for it Sweet Pea, take it all off. Who needs a Constitution?

Congressman Keith Ellison - dude do something!!! Senator Amy Klobachar - wire tapping sucks.

Anney: This was about as unexpected as a brick falling to the ground.

After the attempted 'assasination' of Benazir Bhutto, you almost had to expect that Musharrif would cancel elections. He has no option. He has run out of time politicly, as he is no longer able to run as president.

Watch very carefully. And remember... Pakistan HAS nukes.

As soon as I saw this on the news I instantly thought "this is a dry run to see if it'll work here..." Sad, that I would think that way BUT, not out of the realm of possibility by any means...

metamorph

Good points. I think the real fear of the Bush administration now is that Musharraf's power-grab will fail and Pakistan will be taken over by dissident al Qaeda types. That suddenly changes the balance of power for the US and puts nuclear weapons directly into very unfriendly hands. The worst-case scenario is that they could be used against the US and/or its allies.

Depending on what happens and the level of fear that the possible future of Pakistan evokes in the administration, I think Bush would certainly want to send US land forces in to support Musharraf rather than risk nuclear weapons in the control of anti-American hands.

But who would they send? The troops in Iraq? The US doesn't have any more troops, and it's unlikely that Blackwater has enough forces to subdue an uprising in Pakistan. They might not want to go either -- it wouldn't be the picnic that Iraq has been for them. What's left? Would Congress have to approve sending military support to Pakistan? If Congress were convinced of the dangers inherent in Musharraf's losing the power-grab and did approve military support for Pakistan, about the only way I can see it could be provided would be through a draft of American young people.

Jesus Christ, this is an unexpected and very dangerous twist in the consequences of Bush's illegal warmongering and unholy alliances.

Musharrf is learning from George Bonaparte, that you can ignore the constitution and not be penalized for it, as in the suspension of habeas corpus and wire tapping without a court order.

Disregarding the laws of the land may be even more insidious under a Rudy administration.

In fact Rudy thinks a lot like Musharrf, his giant ego led him to believe that he would be the only one capable of running NYC after 911 and wanted to extend his term in office.

I think India and Pakistan showed the world that you get a lot more respect once you become a member of the nuclear club.

George Bush has not tried to bully them the way he did Iraq and now Iran while these countries are in the early stages of developing a bomb.

Eventually these rogue nations will have the bomb, whether Islamic radicals take over Pakistan or Iran succeeds in producing a nuclear weapon, it will definitely happen one day.

We cannot hold back the expansion of these grizzly nation-destroying weapons forever.

At some point the inhabitants of planet earth are going to have to respect our differences and learn to get along or accept the approaching, inevitable annihilation of the human species.

Maybe the Planet needs a new, fresh start it certainly has been a pretty gruesome place these last few years.

Humans are failing in their stewardship of the Big Blue Marble.

This morning's Times headline story starts with:

WASHINGTON, Nov. 3 — For more than five months the United States has been trying to orchestrate a political transition in Pakistan that would manage to somehow keep Gen. Pervez Musharraf in power without making a mockery of President Bush's promotion of democracy in the Muslim world.

I had to laugh out loud! Bush's promotion of democracy is a mockery of democracy.

That's it. We're living in a Mockracy!

This should be interesting to watch.

Let us not forget, WHOEVER ends up in control in Pakistan will have their fingers on the trigger of Pakistan's nukes...

And as for the US becoming a facist dictatorship... what do you mean COULD?!

It already is.

RichM,

Thank you for pointing out the ignorance of the dim supporters here. US involvement in the Middle East has always been about protecting capital -- regardless of its effect on the grass roots political aspirations of a given country. Have you seen old videos of Kabul from the early 1960s? -- women with long hair, no burkas, going to school, holding jobs, little discrimination or violence, all before US involvement there? We've come a long way...

The dim/repub "choice" in 2007 is mere propaganda. Both represent the same fascistic pro-corporate interests. That which appears to differentiate is a matter of appearance, not substance.

A deeper political shift is necessary -- socialist, Green, what have you. We need candidates who are free of elite and corporate servitude.
But such a candidate may be difficult to find in the United States of Mammon.

Accidently hit submit.
... that had been crippled by 12 years of sanctions and was threatening no one?

SALVIA: "it would mean winning a war with 1.2 billion Muslims in the world … suicide really"

This statement illustrates a key theme of US govt intervention - at least one of a number of themes it sells to the public. Adding up the populations of the effected countries might yield 50% of the world muslim population; thus, framing it as a war against Islam plays on the religious bigotry that is so prevelant in this country. Look at the countries and try to distinguish between those run via some form of Islamic law vs those run by other systems. Sure, the heads of the government are Muslims just as the heads of western governments are Christians. A number of them are dictators; majority muslim countries do not have a monopoly on that form of government. Look to the recent past in Latin America, Africa and 60 years ago in Europe. If this were a war against Islam, then why did the US invade a country that was secular, though a dictatorship, that had been crippled by ? Why not go after Saudi Arabia?

""Is it alright to hold onto some chick's ass instead?"

That would be a no."

No? Damn...I was with-Kem...

An interesting News-day, for sure -- what with these-latest antics of the 'Divine Mr. M', revelations (no pun intended) of American nuke-armed bombers in Syrian airspace [whether or not they were 'used'], and Turkey in N.Iraq [by Thanksgiving?]...
The 'pot boils over', lately.
Be aware, when musing over these and other ME/MA-'events', that Yes -- the majority-populations of Iran/Afghanistan and Pakistan (if not Pakistan's minority and Constitutionally-protected 'frontier-area') remains and has-been largely secular, 'business-oriented', very-fond of "Law&Order", and less 'religiously-fanatic' than bible-belt America. Islamic-Regimes have benefited, hugely, as the "lesser of two-evils" only in country's there that were heavily damaged/oppressed by Empirical-wars/dictatorships (and who received CIA/CoFR-'largess' for 'religious'-alternatives/substitutes for Left-leaning self-Interests). Almost all the garbage about the importance/relevance of 'Islamic-Fanaticism' is just-that -- and I personally doubt BL's (or any-other shill or Intel-creation) 'faith' is any more instrumental or seminal in his purported-actions/intents, past or future, than is GB's...
The bottom-line remains the Bottom-Line.
I believe rising to any prominence/Power almost-anywhere gets one some version of "the Talk". And, once having heard-it, one's future-actions are rather a 'clear choice' -- cooperate and benefit from the prevailing-Interests, or be made into a martyr for them (unless one is seen as so 'commited' that one is just 'dealt-with').

Dear Pervez:

Good for you! I want to suspend our constitution too. Can you give me some advice on how to do it? Too many people here are helping the terrorists.

George W

danieldavid--"Thanks for advice about RichM, one of my many vehement critics."

Ive read your posts before and besides being an apologist for the Democrats (shill ??) there is nothing that you say that hasnt already been said by the Democratic Party or the DLC. Unfortunately you are still stuck in 1984 or maybe the 70's. You pretend to have 'liberal' views but you probably dont even realize how far to the right you really are !! ... oh ... by the way ...pick up a book next time and do some research on the internet before you shoot off ...

"Is it alright to hold onto some chick's ass instead?"

That would be a no.

Is it alright to hold onto some chick's ass instead?

I would bet they have the full backing of our Oligarchy. They are probly the ones that made the call. Can things get any more strange? Hold on to your ass kiddies.

mush is a green card holder, his brother is a us citizen and all his money is in numberd swiss bank accounts. It is just a matter of time before he flies the coop.

Of course it could happen here. What kool-aid have some of the people here been drinking? The detention centers are built. Torture . . . well, ugh OK.Republic busters such as Patriot Act I and II have passed. The executive order giving the President the ability to declare a state of emergency is ready and suitable for framing. All we need now is war with Iran or some more buildings collapsing within their foot prints at free fall speed. Power; it's all about power. When will the people show theirs?

commander_n_chimp 11/3 6:34,

Thanks for advice about RichM, one of my many vehement critics. I only answer some of the time, and once pointed her to somebody's one-line post that "Daniel David is a %$@%ing idiot", suggesting she just copy it and save time. Didn't work. She prefers to type out longer objections to most anything I post. Whatever.

You guys have all seen this one, right?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646&q=mercury

Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda

CanuckChuck, chuch your comments about me, wise guy. You don't know me and I never watched trivia TV programs, except for an occasional comedy show like Jackie Gleasons and Carol Burnett, I never did. ___ Take a hike.

If Wal-Mart is giving flu shots, they are made in China. So it probably is sinister.

PJD at 3:37 p.m 11-3 cuts through the fog of propaganda. I recommend all of us read what PJD says there. The William Blum quote (most of it anyway) was actually accurately referenced by OBL as to what would bring about a truce in one of his tapes. He also once said he considered Robert Fisk (who has interviewed him several times) "neutral." Why? Fisk cares about Muslims and others in the mideast. PJD exposes the great taboo and debunks it. OBL says "You might ask yourselves why we don't attack Sweden." There is no necessity of conflict with AQ. Respect for Muslims and all human being in the Mideast would eliminate the main motives of the militia people. The goal of progressives should be collective security for all with a just rule of law for all. Thanks PJD.

Something is coming. I don't know what, but 2 very weird things caught my eye here in the Denver area within the last 24 hours.... First, last night I see this big TV screen in the road coming up in front of me.... Its a huge van with video screens on both sides and the back with live/full screen video ...its advertising Walmarts flu shots! Very, very weird looking and of course, distracting as hell to everyone. Today they've got a major hwy sectioned off for KP's flu shot traffic. What the hell is going on here. It reminded me of some kinda science fiction flick. They must know somethings coming.. very, very strange looking. I'll have to say the van thing was alomst sinister looking.

"Musharraf has been hanging out with Monkey Man too much."

What was that about 'birds of a feather flocking together' ?!

DanielDavid--'As for Islamic extremism, the last we've heard was that some of The Taliban moved over to Pakistan'

Yeah .. the last i heard we were going after them (since 2001). The Taliban didnt just 'move over to pakistan'. They were created in Pakistan and most of their recruits are from both sides of the border. They dont look at that whole region as Afghanistan-Pakistan. Its one big landscape and they will continue to amass power and control. The Pakistanis dictators of the last 20 years created the Taliban with ample help from U.S. to dominate Afghanistan (for their own strategic advantage). Its coming back now and biting them in their ass.

What is the U.S. government's hand in all of this?Isn't it odd that after so many years of self exile, Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto suddenly decides to return..
Could it be that the U.S. government might have had a hand in convincing her of this? They have been increasing unhappy with the actions of Musharraf.

You sure about that WTF? Why do we have hundreds of government employees walking around our ports of entry and airports 24/7, carring sophisticated instruments in briefcases, to insure a suitcase bomb, or a partial element of one, is not being brought into our country in a suitcase? Like an erector set, you don't have to carry the entire thing in one suitcase. BEFORKIDS makes a very good argument, ___ as is her way, BTW.

WTF ... there are many land locked countries in the world right now so a few more will not matter but i do agree with you that the New Middle East map will not work, mainly because it would mean winning a war with 1.2 billion Muslims in the world ... suicide really

It seems that some Dictators use their military to control the courts to have their way with the people while other Dictators use the DOJ and 'poison pen' letters.

First, it could happen here. To deny it is, well...denial.

Second, what's all the fuss about who to vote for? We'll vote for whoever the bosses pimp for us to vote for. Why is this so hard to grasp?

BeForKids wrote: Suitcase bombs are another story and there's plenty of blackmarket material for that.

"Suitcase" nukes are extremely complex and difficult to make - way beyond Pakistan's expertise. It's easy to put one in a van, but please, getting them to weigh less than 150 lbs and getting a reasonable yield is truly pushing the envelope, and certainly not available on the black market.

Daniel David, I wouldn't pay much attention to RichM. Notice how quick he is to throw around insults to people on here, such is his inferiority complex. And he never responded to my 12:43PM post on October 23, 2007 on "The Imperial Presidency", so I cannot take him seriously as someone who wants to engage in any sort of informed debate. Perhaps I am being unfair, though. He might have been ensconced in his private library with his favorite coloring books.

salvia wrote: US plans to create a New Middle East the map for which is presented below:…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/images/harita_b.jpeg

Won't work. One reason: Denial of access to ports and oceans (i.e., water). Land-locked countries wither and die, and are ripe for taking by neighbors.

Vote obama, he believes in deplomacy and negotiations"

what a crock. i guess you have been listening to too much of his rhetoric and not paying attention to the facts, metamorph.

facts like: obama supported ethiopias US backed invasion of somalia. obama has voted for every war appropriations bill. obama has voted for the patriot act. obama didn't even think it important enough to vote on declaring iran's military a terrorist organization (authorising strikes in the war on terror.) he has threatened pre-emptive strikes on pakistan. he wants permanent bases in iraq for "counter terrorist opperations." he said all options are on the table in terms of striking iran (including nuclear strikes.) he wants to expand the military budget and standing army.

so we are suppoes to choose him over kucinich (the man who has consistently voted against all funding of the war, the patriot act, and is openly against agression and the military bloat) because he has more knowledge of other cultures (the proof of this?) is popular and is darkskinned?

you have got to be kidding me. sounds like a great idea, vote for a war monger cuz he is popular. sorry but you have failed to convince me that tweedle dum is better than tweedle dee. ill be voting my conscience, kucinich that is.

RichM,

All I said was that post-Shah Iran has not ended well.
As for Islamic extremism, the last we've heard was that some of The Taliban moved over to Pakistan.

As for you in your 5:06 pm rant against me, what exactly was your point?

PJD November 3rd, 2007 2:09 pm wrote
"The Ayatollah Khomeini and the Shia faction hijacked the revolution after the Shah stepped down"

I seriously question that very common leftwing perception of what happened in Iran. The following is my understanding of what happened in Iran. It has dire implications for people opposing the Musharraf and Bush regimes.

For years the internationally acknowledged opposition to the Shah of Iran was from groups with a more leftwing orientation. I remember hearing the Shah in an interview referring to "Islamic Communists". He went on, "Can you imagine that? Islamic Communist? How evil that is, isn't it!"

Not long later after many street demonstrations of a united front, Ayatollah Khomeini flew in and stepped onto the tarmac to the great roar of the crowd.

"IMAM" they shouted in their millions and it became clear to me who the real leader of the Iranian revolution was. Overwhelming numbers of ordinary religious people - the real masses at that time, and not the left wing revolutionary vanguard, had their national leader in "THE Imam." The secular left was clearly outnumbered but still part of the revolution they had worked for.

Soon the growing tensions between the various revolutionary allies were up-staged by the U.S., Saudi and Kuwaiti backed Iraqi invasion of Iran. The predictable (and probably intended) consequences of that invasion were the end of political diversity within Iran which was fighting for the survival of the state and the revolution. Consequently national solidarity became more important than implementing revolutionary programs. Dissent during wartime was not in the national interest and so The Imam consolidated his power.

GENERAL MUSHARRAF is also using war to keep power as may Bush one day. Who dares to oppose a regime which claims its internal enemies are helping the other side in the war. Musharraf's wars are with his own people as well as against the Pashtun based "Taliban". Something has to give here.
.

Can any of us imagine a more beautiful sight than Chimpo
commiting is last crime and declaring martial law here.
Then to wake up a couple of days later to see millions of people and active duty military who understand their prime
directive is to defend the constitution, not the people who hijacked, it surrounding the White House demanding his surrender. Then to see him hanging by his heels like El Duce
from a tree on the south lawn. What a beautiful sight..

Fred

Metamorph (2:26 pm) wrote, "Osama is likely to use the bomb whereas Amhadinjad is very unlikely."

Then Daniel David (2:38 pm) cheered for that "great post.'

Actually, dummies, Ahmadinejad does not control Iran's military. His position as president is largely ceremonial; he doesn't set military policy.

As PJD pointed out, Daniel David's earlier post (1:17 pm) said, "The Shah of Iran was once noted as being not a nice guy, but capable of keeping a lid for a while on Islamic extremists."
- This remark, too, is astounding for its blithe ignorance of history. As PJD pointed out (2:09 pm), the Shah's opposition was basically not "Islamic" at all. The whole notion of "Islamic extremism" -- which is mostly BS invented by the US media -- hadn't been invented yet, back when the Shah was installed by the CIA. ("Islamic extremism" only got its start around the same time the Shah was being overthrown, in the late 1970's. // Amusingly, this was also thanks to the CIA, who had put Osama on the payroll in those days.)

Daniel, let us recall, is here every day urging people to "vote for Democrats." This is the same guy who doesn't know that the Shah's function was actually suppressing secular nationalist & leftist movements in Iran; and who doesn't know what powers Ahmadinejad's office actually has.

What does that tell you about the quality of Dan's constant pimping of Democrats?

Ah! Pakistan! Our nuclear-bomb wielding allies from the Afghan war!

Boy, the foreign policy at BushCo is smart, ain't it?

This is what democracy looks like in Pakistan when it is sponsored by the United States of Atrocities.

PJD..You have my vote...what the hey, no one gets out alive. Who wouldn't die for the ideals of our country that really never materialized?

Metamorph.....Huh?

As with everything, people see the events in Pakistan in a completely different light than capital sees them. People want the rights of people preserved, and capital wants the hegemony of capital preserved.

So the American people hope that the Pakistani people oust Musharraf because we know that he is but a puppet of US capital. And US capital wants to keep its puppet to help fulfill its dreams of controlling the region, criss-crossing it with fossil fuel pipelines, fossil fuel being totally unnecessary but something people are easily addicted to, the addiction being a lever for exploiting the people further still, to expand the empire over the entire planet, to enable a more efficient plundering of everything.

Total boycott on fossil fuels is a good idea.

H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007
Bill Status
Introduced: Apr 19, 2007
Sponsor: Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA]
Status: Passed House (Bipartisan support.)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

Code Pink? Greenpeace? MoveOn? Demonstration? Petitions?

Forget 'em. This act will make all of it illegal acts of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism.

Waterboarding? Rendition? Halliburton Camps? You Betcha!

Welcome to the Sad New World.

Now, don't give someone any ideas.

"Osama is likely to use the bomb whereas Amhadinjad is very unlikely."

But, lets be very clear here.

the US could end the threat from Bin Laden or other terorists tomorrow by simply ending it's imperialist foreign policy. Bin Laden has himself stated such, even quoting, William Blum's "if I were president" statement**. It seems clear to me that Bin laden is not a wildly irrational madman. He has a specific goal of getting the US and US military out of the ME - His methods only arise because of him being vastly outgunned, requiring aysymmetric warfare tactics aka "terrorism" - as if a bomb from an F-16 doesn't yeild families that are exactly as dead and dismembered as car bomb or suicide airliner crash.

Spare me the "he wants to kill us all and take over the world" nonsense.

And, a repentant US that treats other peoples as equals, is going to result in the loss of support for Bin Laden, and vastly more cooperation in getting Bin Laden, alongside Bush in the same dock, at the ICC for his crimes.

If this all sounds wildly unrealistic, please suggest something that would work better.

**"If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently.

I would first apologize to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism.

Then I would announce, in all sincerity, to every corner of the world, that America's global interventions have come to an end, and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the USA but now -- oddly enough -- a foreign country.

Would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims. There would be more than enough money. One year's military budget of 330 [now over 500] billion dollars is equal to more than $18,000 an hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born.

That's what I'd do on my first three days in the White House.

On the fourth day, I'd be assassinated."

- William Blum
Author of:
Killing Hope - A history of US and CIA Interventions since WW2 and
Rgue State - A Guide to the World's Only Superpower

It is happening in America already. Musharraf didn't just wake up one morning and hatch a plan to suspend the constitution and impose martial law: all the necessary components had to be in place first. It's a tried-and-true recipe, and it's happened before.
This video is kinda long and Naomi tends to wander a bit, but it's a better way to spend 50 minutes of your life than watching TV. It is Naomi Wolf's "The End Of America" talk. It's been referenced here at CD before, but if you haven't seen it yet, take a peek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

metamorph, "the bomb" can't be delivered to bin Laden without a missile and infrastructure to get it off the ground.

Suitcase bombs are another story and there's plenty of blackmarket material for that. But the current occupant and the so-called front runners for his position are not, none of them, addressing the root problems of terrorism. Things will only get worse in their hands. Oh, but I forgot, you and Daniel David subscribe to the "lesser of two evils" theory. How's it working?

Not only can it happen here, I wouldn't doubt if the situation in Pakistan was planned as a practice run for the US. I mean, do you really think neocons like Rove, with dreams of a 100 years of Republican rule would just say to themselves, "well, we gave it our best shot in the time we had, so let's just move on". I doubt it.

Musharraf has been hanging out with Monkey Man too much.

metamorph,

Thanks for a great post!

Bush Imposes Emergency Rule; Suspends U.S. Constitution

"So begins the partitioning of Pakistan: Tariq Ali analysis and the map of the New Middle East"

http://www.chycho.com/?q=node/1198

"To understand the seriousness of the situation in Pakistan consider watching or listening to the following interview with the acclaimed British-Pakistani historian, novelist, political campaigner and commentator Tariq Ali at Democracy Now! (video, audio and transcript). It is a great analysis of what is happening in Pakistan and what it may lead to:...
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/10/1414233

As for why the situation is getting out of hand in Pakistan, it is very likely that it is related to the US plans to create a New Middle East the map for which is presented below:...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/images/harita_b.jpeg

As to what the price will be for this endeavor? My estimates say it will cost at least 200 million lives."
http://www.chycho.com/?q=new_middle_east

Pakistan has the bomb and is not out building it like posibly Iran.

Pakistan has the Taliban in the neighborhood who can deliver the bomb to Osama Bin Laden.

Osama is likely to use the bomb whereas Amhadinjad is very unlikely.

So why are we sanctioning Iran and causing the relatively friendly to the US Youth to get angry with the US????

All Republican candidates want to essentially do a "surgical" strike of Iran although there are 900,000 soldiers in iran who could block the supply line from Basra to Baghdad causing our soldiers let alone civilians to be killed.

WHY are we focused on Iran-- because it has oil and we think we will get it like we thought we might get Iran oul that we did not do with aggression. WHAT idiots.

Vote for Obama who is next to Hillary and popular and he believes in diplomacy and negotations. I like Kucinich but he has not the clout of Obama. No doubt Dennis is the clearest thinker of all of them, but Obama has knowledge of other cultures and he is a mixed racial face that will appeal to the Muslims.

We need less fearmongering- selling fear- that is what that word means- more support.

In Pakistan- less money just doing arms, more money supporting the middle class and democratic principles.

Less fear, more hope.

The United States "does not support extraconstitutional measures," Rice said.

This was quoted in an AP story about Pakistan which is more extensive than the BBC report. Does she believe her lies?

And yes, my first thought was that this could be us. Former prime minister Sharif is telling the Pakistanis to take to the streets which are swarming with paramilitary (think Blackwater), military, and machine guns. Right.

I sincerely hope the people of the United States take back their nation from a puppet dictator propped up by the Neo-Con and AIPIC agenda.

We need to be sure to save all of the Boy Wonder's proclamations on this to play back for him when he tries to throw the election, now only a short year away.

Mr. David wrote:

"The Shah of Iran was once noted as being not a nice guy, but capable of keeping a lid for a while on Islamic extremists."

Actually, if you are old enough to remember, the opposition to the Shah was overwhelmingly leftist-socialist and secular - that's why the US was so afraid of them and propped the Shah up for so long. The US liked Islamiscists in those days because they opposed "godless communism" the godless commies including anyone who, say, tried to organize a union.

The Ayatollah Khomeini and the Shia faction hijacked the revolution after the Shah stepped down and the provisional Baktiar government had taken took over - a great loss for the international left - and one with suspicious US/French involvement. It was almost a replay of the February and October 1917 revolutions in Russia - but with Khomeini in place of Lenin and Baktiar in place of Kerensky.

Yes, this can absolutely happen here. The Bush administration has instituted extra-constitutional measures via the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and through signing statements. Only major media reform, and getting the facts out to the American public will save our Democracy.

Susan Frishkorn

Kem Patrick asks "could that happen here?"

I had the same thought as I read through the article. Given the current political mess in this country and its damaging leadership, unfortunately it is a very real possibility.