Could that happen here?

No, that couldn't happen here.

However, Pakistan has dozens of nuclear weapons, and millions of jihadis, as well as corrupt officers and impoverished soldiers.

That's what could happen here.

Well, I guess if that happened, the other could happen, too.

The Shah of Iran was once noted as being not a nice guy, but capable of keeping a lid for a while on Islamic extremists. That didn't end well, as we know, and this doesn't sound good either.

I fear it will, our Constitution is just a Goddamn piece of paper already, according to words spoken by our President Bush. Our Congress totally ignores our Constitution, the Law Of The Land. If and when Bush declares a National Emergency and enacts his 'approved by congress' presidential directives, ____ it will happen.

You know, Bush may have to do it, to prevent ancrchy and a total collapse of our nation, if the looming depressin is on the verge of becoming a reality.

Bush has never met a dictator he didn't like and admire....I'm sure him and cheney will give him their full support, no matter how many Pakistanis have to die

however, if Chavez as much as wins a vote, Bush is ready to condem him....

KEM...it DID happen in the USA..in 2000..but you didn;t notice becasue you were too busy watching American Idol

I sincerely hope the people of Pakistan take back their nation from a puppet dictator propped up by American bayonets.

Just Google "martial law united states" and find that everything has been put into place for just such an occurrence here specifically by The John W. Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2006 and a series of executive orders.

There is no surprise here. This act was given the green signal by 'bush, his dick and condi'. They need him to take action against the taliban, blah blah. Fuck the Pakistani people as they are just a bunch of brown-skinned lesser mortals like the arabs. We rule the world and they better do as we tell them.
FYI ... this article was from last week ...
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IK02Df01.html

Kem Patrick asks "could that happen here?"

I had the same thought as I read through the article. Given the current political mess in this country and its damaging leadership, unfortunately it is a very real possibility.

Yes, this can absolutely happen here. The Bush administration has instituted extra-constitutional measures via the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and through signing statements. Only major media reform, and getting the facts out to the American public will save our Democracy.

Susan Frishkorn

Mr. David wrote:

"The Shah of Iran was once noted as being not a nice guy, but capable of keeping a lid for a while on Islamic extremists."

Actually, if you are old enough to remember, the opposition to the Shah was overwhelmingly leftist-socialist and secular - that's why the US was so afraid of them and propped the Shah up for so long. The US liked Islamiscists in those days because they opposed "godless communism" the godless commies including anyone who, say, tried to organize a union.

The Ayatollah Khomeini and the Shia faction hijacked the revolution after the Shah stepped down and the provisional Baktiar government had taken took over - a great loss for the international left - and one with suspicious US/French involvement. It was almost a replay of the February and October 1917 revolutions in Russia - but with Khomeini in place of Lenin and Baktiar in place of Kerensky.

We need to be sure to save all of the Boy Wonder's proclamations on this to play back for him when he tries to throw the election, now only a short year away.

I sincerely hope the people of the United States take back their nation from a puppet dictator propped up by the Neo-Con and AIPIC agenda.

The United States "does not support extraconstitutional measures," Rice said.

This was quoted in an AP story about Pakistan which is more extensive than the BBC report. Does she believe her lies?

And yes, my first thought was that this could be us. Former prime minister Sharif is telling the Pakistanis to take to the streets which are swarming with paramilitary (think Blackwater), military, and machine guns. Right.

Pakistan has the bomb and is not out building it like posibly Iran.

Pakistan has the Taliban in the neighborhood who can deliver the bomb to Osama Bin Laden.

Osama is likely to use the bomb whereas Amhadinjad is very unlikely.

So why are we sanctioning Iran and causing the relatively friendly to the US Youth to get angry with the US????

All Republican candidates want to essentially do a "surgical" strike of Iran although there are 900,000 soldiers in iran who could block the supply line from Basra to Baghdad causing our soldiers let alone civilians to be killed.

WHY are we focused on Iran-- because it has oil and we think we will get it like we thought we might get Iran oul that we did not do with aggression. WHAT idiots.

Vote for Obama who is next to Hillary and popular and he believes in diplomacy and negotations. I like Kucinich but he has not the clout of Obama. No doubt Dennis is the clearest thinker of all of them, but Obama has knowledge of other cultures and he is a mixed racial face that will appeal to the Muslims.

We need less fearmongering- selling fear- that is what that word means- more support.

In Pakistan- less money just doing arms, more money supporting the middle class and democratic principles.

Less fear, more hope.

"So begins the partitioning of Pakistan: Tariq Ali analysis and the map of the New Middle East"

http://www.chycho.com/?q=node/1198

"To understand the seriousness of the situation in Pakistan consider watching or listening to the following interview with the acclaimed British-Pakistani historian, novelist, political campaigner and commentator Tariq Ali at Democracy Now! (video, audio and transcript). It is a great analysis of what is happening in Pakistan and what it may lead to:...
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/10/1414233

As for why the situation is getting out of hand in Pakistan, it is very likely that it is related to the US plans to create a New Middle East the map for which is presented below:...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/images/harita_b.jpeg

As to what the price will be for this endeavor? My estimates say it will cost at least 200 million lives."
http://www.chycho.com/?q=new_middle_east

Bush Imposes Emergency Rule; Suspends U.S. Constitution

metamorph,

Thanks for a great post!

Musharraf has been hanging out with Monkey Man too much.

Not only can it happen here, I wouldn't doubt if the situation in Pakistan was planned as a practice run for the US. I mean, do you really think neocons like Rove, with dreams of a 100 years of Republican rule would just say to themselves, "well, we gave it our best shot in the time we had, so let's just move on". I doubt it.

metamorph, "the bomb" can't be delivered to bin Laden without a missile and infrastructure to get it off the ground.

Suitcase bombs are another story and there's plenty of blackmarket material for that. But the current occupant and the so-called front runners for his position are not, none of them, addressing the root problems of terrorism. Things will only get worse in their hands. Oh, but I forgot, you and Daniel David subscribe to the "lesser of two evils" theory. How's it working?

It is happening in America already. Musharraf didn't just wake up one morning and hatch a plan to suspend the constitution and impose martial law: all the necessary components had to be in place first. It's a tried-and-true recipe, and it's happened before.
This video is kinda long and Naomi tends to wander a bit, but it's a better way to spend 50 minutes of your life than watching TV. It is Naomi Wolf's "The End Of America" talk. It's been referenced here at CD before, but if you haven't seen it yet, take a peek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

"Osama is likely to use the bomb whereas Amhadinjad is very unlikely."

But, lets be very clear here.

the US could end the threat from Bin Laden or other terorists tomorrow by simply ending it's imperialist foreign policy. Bin Laden has himself stated such, even quoting, William Blum's "if I were president" statement**. It seems clear to me that Bin laden is not a wildly irrational madman. He has a specific goal of getting the US and US military out of the ME - His methods only arise because of him being vastly outgunned, requiring aysymmetric warfare tactics aka "terrorism" - as if a bomb from an F-16 doesn't yeild families that are exactly as dead and dismembered as car bomb or suicide airliner crash.

Spare me the "he wants to kill us all and take over the world" nonsense.

And, a repentant US that treats other peoples as equals, is going to result in the loss of support for Bin Laden, and vastly more cooperation in getting Bin Laden, alongside Bush in the same dock, at the ICC for his crimes.

If this all sounds wildly unrealistic, please suggest something that would work better.

**"If I were the president, I could stop terrorist attacks against the United States in a few days. Permanently.

I would first apologize to all the widows and orphans, the tortured and impoverished, and all the many millions of other victims of American imperialism.

Then I would announce, in all sincerity, to every corner of the world, that America's global interventions have come to an end, and inform Israel that it is no longer the 51st state of the USA but now -- oddly enough -- a foreign country.

Would then reduce the military budget by at least 90% and use the savings to pay reparations to the victims. There would be more than enough money. One year's military budget of 330 [now over 500] billion dollars is equal to more than $18,000 an hour for every hour since Jesus Christ was born.

That's what I'd do on my first three days in the White House.

On the fourth day, I'd be assassinated."

- William Blum
Author of:
Killing Hope - A history of US and CIA Interventions since WW2 and
Rgue State - A Guide to the World's Only Superpower

Now, don't give someone any ideas.

H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007
Bill Status
Introduced: Apr 19, 2007
Sponsor: Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA]
Status: Passed House (Bipartisan support.)

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955

Code Pink? Greenpeace? MoveOn? Demonstration? Petitions?

Forget 'em. This act will make all of it illegal acts of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism.

Waterboarding? Rendition? Halliburton Camps? You Betcha!

Welcome to the Sad New World.

As with everything, people see the events in Pakistan in a completely different light than capital sees them. People want the rights of people preserved, and capital wants the hegemony of capital preserved.

So the American people hope that the Pakistani people oust Musharraf because we know that he is but a puppet of US capital. And US capital wants to keep its puppet to help fulfill its dreams of controlling the region, criss-crossing it with fossil fuel pipelines, fossil fuel being totally unnecessary but something people are easily addicted to, the addiction being a lever for exploiting the people further still, to expand the empire over the entire planet, to enable a more efficient plundering of everything.

Total boycott on fossil fuels is a good idea.

PJD..You have my vote...what the hey, no one gets out alive. Who wouldn't die for the ideals of our country that really never materialized?

Metamorph.....Huh?

This is what democracy looks like in Pakistan when it is sponsored by the United States of Atrocities.

Ah! Pakistan! Our nuclear-bomb wielding allies from the Afghan war!

Boy, the foreign policy at BushCo is smart, ain't it?

Can any of us imagine a more beautiful sight than Chimpo
commiting is last crime and declaring martial law here.
Then to wake up a couple of days later to see millions of people and active duty military who understand their prime
directive is to defend the constitution, not the people who hijacked, it surrounding the White House demanding his surrender. Then to see him hanging by his heels like El Duce
from a tree on the south lawn. What a beautiful sight..

Fred

PJD November 3rd, 2007 2:09 pm wrote
"The Ayatollah Khomeini and the Shia faction hijacked the revolution after the Shah stepped down"

I seriously question that very common leftwing perception of what happened in Iran. The following is my understanding of what happened in Iran. It has dire implications for people opposing the Musharraf and Bush regimes.

For years the internationally acknowledged opposition to the Shah of Iran was from groups with a more leftwing orientation. I remember hearing the Shah in an interview referring to "Islamic Communists". He went on, "Can you imagine that? Islamic Communist? How evil that is, isn't it!"

Not long later after many street demonstrations of a united front, Ayatollah Khomeini flew in and stepped onto the tarmac to the great roar of the crowd.

"IMAM" they shouted in their millions and it became clear to me who the real leader of the Iranian revolution was. Overwhelming numbers of ordinary religious people - the real masses at that time, and not the left wing revolutionary vanguard, had their national leader in "THE Imam." The secular left was clearly outnumbered but still part of the revolution they had worked for.

Soon the growing tensions between the various revolutionary allies were up-staged by the U.S., Saudi and Kuwaiti backed Iraqi invasion of Iran. The predictable (and probably intended) consequences of that invasion were the end of political diversity within Iran which was fighting for the survival of the state and the revolution. Consequently national solidarity became more important than implementing revolutionary programs. Dissent during wartime was not in the national interest and so The Imam consolidated his power.

GENERAL MUSHARRAF is also using war to keep power as may Bush one day. Who dares to oppose a regime which claims its internal enemies are helping the other side in the war. Musharraf's wars are with his own people as well as against the Pashtun based "Taliban". Something has to give here.
.

RichM,

All I said was that post-Shah Iran has not ended well.
As for Islamic extremism, the last we've heard was that some of The Taliban moved over to Pakistan.

As for you in your 5:06 pm rant against me, what exactly was your point?

Vote obama, he believes in deplomacy and negotiations"

what a crock. i guess you have been listening to too much of his rhetoric and not paying attention to the facts, metamorph.

facts like: obama supported ethiopias US backed invasion of somalia. obama has voted for every war appropriations bill. obama has voted for the patriot act. obama didn't even think it important enough to vote on declaring iran's military a terrorist organization (authorising strikes in the war on terror.) he has threatened pre-emptive strikes on pakistan. he wants permanent bases in iraq for "counter terrorist opperations." he said all options are on the table in terms of striking iran (including nuclear strikes.) he wants to expand the military budget and standing army.

so we are suppoes to choose him over kucinich (the man who has consistently voted against all funding of the war, the patriot act, and is openly against agression and the military bloat) because he has more knowledge of other cultures (the proof of this?) is popular and is darkskinned?

you have got to be kidding me. sounds like a great idea, vote for a war monger cuz he is popular. sorry but you have failed to convince me that tweedle dum is better than tweedle dee. ill be voting my conscience, kucinich that is.

salvia wrote: US plans to create a New Middle East the map for which is presented below:…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/images/harita_b.jpeg

Won't work. One reason: Denial of access to ports and oceans (i.e., water). Land-locked countries wither and die, and are ripe for taking by neighbors.

Daniel David, I wouldn't pay much attention to RichM. Notice how quick he is to throw around insults to people on here, such is his inferiority complex. And he never responded to my 12:43PM post on October 23, 2007 on "The Imperial Presidency", so I cannot take him seriously as someone who wants to engage in any sort of informed debate. Perhaps I am being unfair, though. He might have been ensconced in his private library with his favorite coloring books.

BeForKids wrote: Suitcase bombs are another story and there's plenty of blackmarket material for that.

"Suitcase" nukes are extremely complex and difficult to make - way beyond Pakistan's expertise. It's easy to put one in a van, but please, getting them to weigh less than 150 lbs and getting a reasonable yield is truly pushing the envelope, and certainly not available on the black market.

First, it could happen here. To deny it is, well...denial.

Second, what's all the fuss about who to vote for? We'll vote for whoever the bosses pimp for us to vote for. Why is this so hard to grasp?

It seems that some Dictators use their military to control the courts to have their way with the people while other Dictators use the DOJ and 'poison pen' letters.

WTF ... there are many land locked countries in the world right now so a few more will not matter but i do agree with you that the New Middle East map will not work, mainly because it would mean winning a war with 1.2 billion Muslims in the world ... suicide really

You sure about that WTF? Why do we have hundreds of government employees walking around our ports of entry and airports 24/7, carring sophisticated instruments in briefcases, to insure a suitcase bomb, or a partial element of one, is not being brought into our country in a suitcase? Like an erector set, you don't have to carry the entire thing in one suitcase. BEFORKIDS makes a very good argument, ___ as is her way, BTW.

What is the U.S. government's hand in all of this?Isn't it odd that after so many years of self exile, Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto suddenly decides to return..
Could it be that the U.S. government might have had a hand in convincing her of this? They have been increasing unhappy with the actions of Musharraf.

"Musharraf has been hanging out with Monkey Man too much."

What was that about 'birds of a feather flocking together' ?!

DanielDavid--'As for Islamic extremism, the last we've heard was that some of The Taliban moved over to Pakistan'

Yeah .. the last i heard we were going after them (since 2001). The Taliban didnt just 'move over to pakistan'. They were created in Pakistan and most of their recruits are from both sides of the border. They dont look at that whole region as Afghanistan-Pakistan. Its one big landscape and they will continue to amass power and control. The Pakistanis dictators of the last 20 years created the Taliban with ample help from U.S. to dominate Afghanistan (for their own strategic advantage). Its coming back now and biting them in their ass.

Something is coming. I don't know what, but 2 very weird things caught my eye here in the Denver area within the last 24 hours.... First, last night I see this big TV screen in the road coming up in front of me.... Its a huge van with video screens on both sides and the back with live/full screen video ...its advertising Walmarts flu shots! Very, very weird looking and of course, distracting as hell to everyone. Today they've got a major hwy sectioned off for KP's flu shot traffic. What the hell is going on here. It reminded me of some kinda science fiction flick. They must know somethings coming.. very, very strange looking. I'll have to say the van thing was alomst sinister looking.

PJD at 3:37 p.m 11-3 cuts through the fog of propaganda. I recommend all of us read what PJD says there. The William Blum quote (most of it anyway) was actually accurately referenced by OBL as to what would bring about a truce in one of his tapes. He also once said he considered Robert Fisk (who has interviewed him several times) "neutral." Why? Fisk cares about Muslims and others in the mideast. PJD exposes the great taboo and debunks it. OBL says "You might ask yourselves why we don't attack Sweden." There is no necessity of conflict with AQ. Respect for Muslims and all human being in the Mideast would eliminate the main motives of the militia people. The goal of progressives should be collective security for all with a just rule of law for all. Thanks PJD.

If Wal-Mart is giving flu shots, they are made in China. So it probably is sinister.

CanuckChuck, chuch your comments about me, wise guy. You don't know me and I never watched trivia TV programs, except for an occasional comedy show like Jackie Gleasons and Carol Burnett, I never did. ___ Take a hike.

You guys have all seen this one, right?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6890106663412840646&q=mercury

Mercury, Autism and the Global Vaccine Agenda

commander_n_chimp 11/3 6:34,

Thanks for advice about RichM, one of my many vehement critics. I only answer some of the time, and once pointed her to somebody's one-line post that "Daniel David is a %$@%ing idiot", suggesting she just copy it and save time. Didn't work. She prefers to type out longer objections to most anything I post. Whatever.

Of course it could happen here. What kool-aid have some of the people here been drinking? The detention centers are built. Torture . . . well, ugh OK.Republic busters such as Patriot Act I and II have passed. The executive order giving the President the ability to declare a state of emergency is ready and suitable for framing. All we need now is war with Iran or some more buildings collapsing within their foot prints at free fall speed. Power; it's all about power. When will the people show theirs?