Waterboarding Is Torture - I Did It Myself, says US Advisor
When the US military trains soldiers to resist interrogation, it uses a torture technique from the Middle Ages, known as "waterboarding". Its use on terror suspects in secret US prisons around the world has come to symbolise the Bush administration's no-nonsense enthusiasm for the harshest questioning techniques.
Although waterboarding has been considered torture for over a century and the US military is banned from using it, controversy over its continuing use by the CIA may be about to derail the appointment of President Bush's candidate for US Attorney-General.
Michael Mukasey, a retired federal judge from New York and a veteran of several al-Qa'ida trials, was questioned by a Senate committee on Tuesday and refused to say whether waterboarding was illegal.
Instead, he called the technique "repugnant to me" and promised to investigate further if he was confirmed in the job. He explained that he could not say yet whether the practice was illegal because he had not been briefed on the secret methods of US interrogators and he did not want to put the CIA officers who used it in "personal legal jeopardy".
Even though Congress banned waterboarding in the US military in 2005, it did not do so for the CIA. As a result, Mr Mukasey told senators, it was uncertain whether this technique or other harsh methods constituted "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment. His answers did not satisfy the Democrats, however, and his approval now hinges on whether he is willing to say the torture method is against US law.
In a further embarrassment for Mr Bush yesterday, Malcolm Nance, an advisor on terrorism to the US departments of Homeland Security, Special Operations and Intelligence, publicly denounced the practice. He revealed that waterboarding is used in training at the US Navy's Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School in San Diego, and claimed to have witnessed and supervised "hundreds" of waterboarding exercises. Although these last only a few minutes and take place under medical supervision, he concluded that "waterboarding is a torture technique - period".
The practice involves strapping the person being interrogated on to a board as pints of water are forced into his lungs through a cloth covering his face while the victim's mouth is forced open. Its effect, according to Mr Nance, is a process of slow-motion suffocation.
Typically, a victim goes into hysterics on the board as water fills his lungs. "How much the victim is to drown," Mr Nance wrote in an article for the Small Wars Journal, "depends on the desired result and the obstinacy of the subject.
"A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience to horrific, suffocating punishment, to the final death spiral. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch."
The CIA director Michael Hayden has tried to defuse the controversy. He claims that, since 2002, aggressive interrogation methods in which a prisoner believes he is about to die have been used on only about 30 of the 100 al-Qai'da suspects being held by the US. Meanwhile, a CIA official told The New York Times waterboarding had only been used three times. The Bush administration has suggested that the interrogation of al-Qai'da's second-in-command, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was a success thanks to the technique, and used this to justify continued aggressive interrogations of suspects in secret CIA prisons.
While US media reports typically state that waterboarding involves "simulated drowning", Mr Nance explained that "since the lungs are actually filling with water", there is nothing simulated about it. "Waterboarding," he said, "is slow-motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of blackout and expiration. When done right, it is controlled death."
Mr Nance said US troops were trained to withstand waterboarding, watched by a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a backup team. "When performed with even moderate intensity over an extended time on an unsuspecting prisoner - it is torture, without doubt," he added. "Most people cannot stand to watch a high-intensity, kinetic interrogation. One has to overcome basic human decency to endure watching or causing the effects. The brutality would force you into a personal moral dilemma between humanity and hatred. It would leave you to question the meaning of what it is to be an American."
Mr Mukasey's nomination goes before the Senate next week. Three Democratic presidential candidates, including Hillary Clinton, have already said they will not support him. However, the White House said yesterday that it did not believe his nomination was in jeopardy.
'I felt I was drowning and I was in terrible agony'
Henri Alleg, a journalist, was tortured in 1957 by French forces in Algeria. He described the ordeal of water torture in his book The Question. Soldiers strapped him over a plank, wrapped his head in cloth and positioned it beneath a running tap. He recalled: "The rag was soaked rapidly. Water flowed everywhere: in my mouth, in my nose, all over my face. But for a while I could still breathe in some small gulps of air. I tried, by contracting my throat, to take in as little water as possible and to resist suffocation by keeping air in my lungs for as long as I could. But I couldn't hold on for more than a few moments. I had the impression of drowning, and a terrible agony, that of death itself, took possession of me. In spite of myself, all the muscles of my body struggled uselessly to save me from suffocation. In spite of myself, the fingers of both my hands shook uncontrollably. 'That's it! He's going to talk,' said a voice.
The water stopped running and they took away the rag. I was able to breathe. In the gloom, I saw the lieutenants and the captain, who, with a cigarette between his lips, was hitting my stomach with his fist to make me throw out the water I had swallowed."
From: Alleg, Henri, The Question, University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln: 2006; original French edition © 1958 by Editions de Minuit
© 2007 The Independent
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77 Comments so far
Show AllKeith Olbermann last night had a special commentary on water boarding. Three years ago the Acting Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin decided to go to a military base to be water boarded. Even despite the fact he knew the military personnel were not going to drown him. He found it a horrifying experience. He concluded that water boarding was indeed a form of torture. He took his findings to the Bush Administration but was promptly fired for his efforts. For anyone who is interested in reading the full commentary it can be found at Countdown with Keith Olberman - MSNBC.com
I heard Scott Simon on NPR this morning calling the Schumer/Feinstein defection a "big victory" for Bush. It's certainly a victory for the cause of torture, and Bush must be ecstatic. Schumer/Feinstein argue that Mukasey is a consensus candidate. I can understand the fascists on the Judiciary Committee trotting out such bogus rationalizations, but why the two Jewish Senators, with all their collective historical experience as victims of state persecution? Could it be that Schumer/Feinstein provided their crucial support for torture because they think it will be used only on Arabs, never on Jews?
They couldn't be that blind and hypocritical, could they? Surely they realize that what goes around, comes around? In pre-WWII Germany, powerful German Jews allied with the Nazis because they thought they could use the Nazis to advance their own political agenda. Whoopsy! Well, you know what they say about best-laid plans going awry. Anyway, whatever their motivation, the result is the same, a major victory for the fascists and a serious setback for our Bill of Rights.
"In announcing her support for Mukasey, Feinstein, D-Calif., said "first and foremost, Michael Mukasey is not Alberto Gonzales,"
So Alberto Gonzalez is now our moral benchmark !!!
Helix:
Didn't even occur to me until I read your post. Of course it doesn't add up. She wouldn't have killed herself - not likely considering her faith and her convictions. They offed her. She was prepared to talk, no doubt, prepared to share her story with someone. She may have even emailed a family member or friend, they intercepted her message and then arranged for her to "commit suicide." Bloody hell. I was very disturbed about this at the time and I felt like there was something weird. I don't doubt the probability of this scenario one iota.
Schumer and Feinstein have decided to back Mukasey despite his not being able to come out against waterboarding. This is really questionable of them. If I were one of their constituents, I would be hopping mad. Are there any of their constituents who read this? If so, tell me what you think. Are you going to demand an explanation from them?
eyefoto, bobpomeroy,
Am I the only person here who thinks the Alyssa Peterson "suicide" story doesn't add up?
just in...Democrat TRAITORS Feinstien and Schumer will vote for "I dont know what torture is?" Mukacey....
Somebody please donate a spine to the Senate
saywhat,
Re: Are we Americans suppose to accept this. Then what have we become if we do?
Yes. Well, OK, it really doesn't matter what you think, so go ahead and yammer all you want about it.
Just don't step out of line, Jelly Roll! Or you might just find out that waterboarding isn't even close to the worst thing that can happen.
canuckchuck,
Is that quote from what's his name's "Heart of Darkness"?
I've only seen the movie, aka "Apocalypse Now"
Sounds like another example of "Shock Therapy". Isn't this, as we've learned from Naomi Klein in her brilliant book, The Shock Doctrine, the modus operandi of the neocons?
We know how they operate. We shouldn't be surprised. We also shouldn't be surprised that they lie. But, be surprised when we accept it.
Waterboarding is NOT "simulated drowning"...when you hold someone down and fill their lungs with water, it IS drowning...that is why some have died in the USA's gentle care...
"He's a good man. He's a fair man. He's an independent man, ...I'm a little man, I'm a little man, he's... he's a great man. I should have been a pair of ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas..." - Bush on Mukasey
Re: Waterboarding for fun and profit.
Interesting, every politician that has 'tried' water boarding agrees that its 'torture!!!!!!"
TheAZCowBoy
Tombstone, AZ
Eyefoto: Thanks for mentioning ms. Peterson. Many have probably forgotten this ill-fated young woman and her sacrifice. Yes. This is what she couldn't bear to see, among many other atrocities, no doubt.
The entire Bush Administration's upper echelons are deserving of war crimes punishments. Life in prison with absolutely no opportunity for parole. Let them rot in prisons with no hope for release or reprieve.
This stain against our government, our nation, and our people will not easily be washed out. The blood on all of our hands is deeply troubling. How will we pay for this? Will our fate be the same as that of Germany? Do we need to suffer endless bombardments and possible nuclear attack before we wake up to the Replicofascism that has putrefied the American dream, our way of life, the soul of America?
No Attorney General for Bush. Not Mucousey, not anyone. Cripple him. Cripple his administration. Make it impossible for the government to further work it's dark and dirty deeds.
It reminds me of the kids who say oral sex isn't sex because it's not intercourse. It's just a way to have your cake and eat it, too. Mukasey's just trying to play the semantical middle ground until he gets confirmed. Then, he'll probably go along with the rest of the fascists.
I agree with DougRambo, when we reach the point of even discussing the acceptability of torture, maybe we've fallen too far already.
It takes waterboarding examples to arouse the general citizenry to the decline of the USA on every possible front. The Main Stream Media fill our hours with phony survivorships, celebrity fluff and pharmacy info-mercials. The war criminals have the White House, the Supreme Court, a majority of the Senate and many in the House, including lots of Democrats. The MDs, chaplains, psychiatrists, psychologists and linguists in government and military service follow their Nazi guidelines. There are no whistle-blowers. The military is powerlessly led by men wedded to their perks and inflated retirements. America is swimming in shit up to our necks and there is no hope in site. Imagine a world in which the Russians, the Chinese and the Islamists occupy the moral high ground, with their medieval, indeed barbaric, cultures. Your neighborhood SWAT team with its skilled snipers will not permit any protest. The Coup is accomplished. In a banana republic there could be perhaps a general strike or sick-out day. In the one-time democratic republic of the USA, there will not even be a hiccup. A referendum ain't going to happen. The military will not revolt, just go on being the victim of its own crimes. The election will only offer the dregs of compromise. The fact is there are no candidates and there is no platform to undo the damage of the criminal cabal. Eisenhower predicted the military-industrial complex posed a danger. Today they control our government and support each other with loot from taxpayers. So much for the upside, optimistic view of events. Time for my waterboard.
I only want to leave this country. I don't think there is any hope left for a people who can't even decide what torture is or isn't. Damn us all. Damn us to hell!!
So Mukasey can't call water-boarding torture, eh? I understand he's concerned about coverng the CIA's arse? He'd better be concerned about covering his own arse, with regard to the Attorney Generalship of the United States!
He won't call water-boarding torture? He isn't going to be the Attorney General! It's that simple!Is there something about that he isn't getting?
Oval Office, 4.45am, two industrious-looking characters and another bound to a chair...
DC: "Does this hurt?". Inserts pin under GW's left index fingernail.
GW: "Ow! Stop!"
DC: "Did it hurt as much as the matchstick?"
GW: "The hot one?"
DC: "Yes"
GW: "No."
DC: "Al, check the 'No' box in the 'Is Torture?' column. Now we'll try the heated coathanger, tum-te-tum-te-tum". Hums and busies self with blowtorch.
GW: "Could we skip the fingers and move on to the liquid methods?"
DC: "No, I'm just beginning to enjoy myself."
AG: "We're almost done on this page, only 15 more tests of quaintness to go. Hang in there George"
GW: "Look, the US doesn't do torture - why do we need these tests?"
DC: "We have to be entirely certain, hold still…"
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all."
My pet rat Herman thinks waterboarding is torture, and this is important because Herman has at least as much influence in Washington as the netroots, and also because Herman has been squeaking loudly about torture at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib for more than four years, which shows that Herman is much smarter than the MSM and also much smarter than the Democratic candidates, who let an ass-monkey like Tim Russert tell them what to talk about, while Herman just goes on squeaking about Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib no matter how many ass-monkeys ask him what is his favorite Bible verse.
What you admit is a matter of patriotic duty, it seems.
Patriotism and honour have nothing in common. All the faiths of the world praise mercy and charity and neighbourliness, especially towards outsiders. Patriotism is the opposite of that. Faithless and without honour. Without truth. Without love.
Patriotism thinks love is hatred of others. Patriotism thinks truth is a matter of convenience. Patriotism thinks honour is not admitting faults. Patriotism thinks faith is an embarrassment.
We are certainly living in times that are stranger than fiction.
Now what Bush is running is the idea that if Mukasey is not confirmed, it will indicate that the standards have become so high it won't be possible to confirm anyone.
That he can even get away with saying the things he says (and all of his crew) is proof positive that whole country is on the brink of total insanity. I mean it's just amazing.
That all of these people are not just laughed back to where they come from as poor excuses for human beings proves that the rest of us are insane.
If someone scripted a drama that followed this administrations actions and gall, it would be considered unbelievable and unmarketable. Unless it was Fellini perhaps.
Just watching John Stewart's show and
props go out to him for raising (at
least cable's) pub awareness of govt.
waterboarding.
You have to be one real stupid fuck to believe something brought up from the medieval pit of the inquisition like water boarding is not torture.
Mad mad people in charge, the lunatic is on the loose, and he has indeed given the USA a black eye. After trying and hanging the sob it would probably be suitable for the nation(USA) to change it's name. And a good time for geographers everywhere to rename the land masses which have been so undeservedly named the "Americas".
The average Iraqi, BO (Before Occupation) lived a fairly decent life. The cities were clean, they had water, electricity, sewage treatment. There was fresh food in the stores, sidewalk cafes. The people were well educated. Health care was excellent. You had to watch expressing opinions though, for criticizing the regime might land you in Abu Ghraib where you might be tortured or executed. However, if you avoided that, life was pretty good, your wife and children were safe, your house or apartment was clean and neat. That was Iraq under the "Savage Dictator" Saddam Hussein. Yes, he was a killer, but that didn't affect the average Iraqi.
Now, we have liberated the Iraqis from tyranny and given them democracy. Under the new order, they have few hospitals, fewer doctors, little fresh food, the water is foul and poisonous, the sewage runs in the streets, you go out and forage for food at the risk of being killed by the occupying troops or one of the factions. Your home may be raided at any time and you or your sons dragged off, or shot. If you criticize the occupiers, you may be dragged off to Abu Ghraib where you may be tortured or killed. Your friends or neighbors are killed as "target practice" by the occupier's mercenaries. As an Iraqi, you have no recourse to justice.
If I didn't know better, I'd say that Cheney/Bush and his neocon buddies have given democracy, and us, a bad name.
At least reading these comments, I don't feel so alone. The MSM makes me ill. The are utterly complicit in a way I had never understood until recently listening to the latest Guns & Butter interview..
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=23052
Guns and Butter Wednesday, October 31st, 2007
Interview with investigator and author, Daniel Estulin, on his just published book, The True Story of The Bilderberg Group.

Shocking unless you've been following this group of powerbrokers in great detail...
[It's about "money & energy"].
Paul From Texas What the hell do you mean "Supposedly" there's no doubt in my mind that they are nearly all gutless, spineless and w/o balls with few exceptions. (Feingold, Sanders, Waxman, a few others)
Yes, Mukasey, the little spineless schmuck will be confirmed and will be about as worthless as the two previous pricks were. The only good thing we ever heard about Ashcroft happened when he was nearly unconscious. And "Gonzo", forget it, what a total waste of sperm.
Never would I have believed this of the United States of America until this year. I still have a problem believing it. ___ But we have to.
I sincerely wish we could waterboard the mo~!@kers in the whitehouse.
Yep, he'll be confirmed...by the supposedly "spineless" Democratic Congress.
I think there should be a formal investigation of the circumstances of Alyssa R. Peterson's death. She is the interrogator/interpreter who refused to continue and was found dead in her reassigned position, guard duty, of a non-combat gunshot. It might just lead to some proof of the non-torture enhanced interrogations which the public might more clearly recognize. Maybe she thought waterboarding was torture. Maybe her voice should be heard in a matter such as this. It seems like we owe her something.
Waterboarding Is Torture ... period
Torture Is Against the Geneva Convention ... period
The Geneva Convention (Treaty) Is the Law of the Land ... period
This Government Is in Violation of the Law of the Land ... period
This Government Is Guilty of Treason ... period
What does our Founding Document (Declaration of Independance) say about that?
History in the Making - if Leheay grows some bal_s. Call him at 202-224-3121 (capitol switchboard) and ask for his office. Give them hell.
If it isn't torture what is it? Will Mukasey submit to waterboarding? If so let's waterboard him until we can get him to answer the questions to our satisfaction.
No we don't need another psycho attorney general. The attorney general should have compassion and be the most honest guy in the country.
I just received an email from my group, can not open the site. It infers bush confirmed Mukasy w/o anyone knowing. Happened between speech and present time.
Film at 11:00....
MarthaA----Capital idea! They have alot of useful information that Americans need to know. Let the enhanced interrogations begin!
Since waterboarding is not torture according to the Bush administration, we should have public demonstrations of waterboarding, demonstrating how people friendly waterboarding really is with Bush administration officials being the ones who are waterboarded, starting with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.
Public demonstrations would reassure the general population and allow them to have faith in their government officials by government officials starting with Bush and Cheney undergoing this people friendly procedure and reassuring the public that waterboarding is not torture, it is just people friendly interrogation; surely, Bush and Cheney can undergo a little people friendly interrogation to reassure the public that waterboarding is not torture. What do you think?
Kem Patrick, present torture is torture done right to borrow your sarcasm. Purely physical torture will leave you pretty scarred and PTSD'd for life, but the "enhanced interrogations", to borrow some Nazi sarcasm, leaves the people mentally incapacitated and often identifying with their torturers. Just take a look at Padilla. I believe they said he had the wherewithal of furniture. During his little trial, they reported that he thought Dubya would swoop in and rescue him from his fate. He would be better off if that just used a thunmscrew and broke is arms on the rack. Here, they've literally destroyed his mind and written a new one in its place.
I wish during a news conference someone would ask King Bush if he thinks Jesus would endorce waterboarding.
If Congress confirms this wretched human being (which they undoubtedly will), they will be just as complicit in these crimes.
1692 all over again.
"How do you know she is a witch?"
"She looks like one!"
"I got it! We'll torture her into admitting she is a witch...humm, I mean has ties to terrorist organizations!"
Have we really evolved?
To see if torture really provides accurate information might I suggest that we waterboard Dick and George and see how long it takes them to confess to being charter members of Al-Quaida. I give those draft-dodging cowards about 15 seconds before they would confess to anything.
I recall reading about a king of England who was arrested, de-throned and cast into a Tower of London cell, where he was tortured for a week. It is said his screams could be heard for miles. Now if we're gonna allow torture, then why not do it right, with white hot pokers in the rectum and feet in boiling oil for starters. After all, the most pwerful nation on Earth should be able to show the rest of the world how great we are. That should help promote Democracy in the Mid-East. Isn't that the goal now since no WMDs were found in Iraq?
As the article sates, Mukasey is a retired judge and veteran of some Al-Qa'ida trials. He was probably privy to the "evidence" that defense counsel is barred from hearing, and thus, not allowed to challenge. He knows exactly what water-boarding is, and if they allow is nomination to go through to vote, then Congress is worse than "irrelevant" as Fein said, but entirely craven.
And here is the logic laid bare.
"Even though Congress banned waterboarding in the US military in 2005, it did not do so for the CIA. As a result, Mr Mukasey told senators, it was uncertain whether this technique or other harsh methods constituted "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment."
That is, since the CIA uses it, I can not declare it "cruel, inhuman or degrading" treatment" because that would mean we torture.
The Senators should ask these question, "If Saddam used water-boarding, would you consider that torture? If Iranians used stress positions and extreme temperatures on the British sailors, would that be torture? When the KGB used sleep deprivation on European dissidents, was that torture?
Okay, President Bush, you paid off other nationalities of person to turn in funny looking people and personal enemies. The funny looking people were tortured into confessing to whatever you wanted. They then were flown to Guantanamo.
If you never had done anything else, this, sir, should be enough for imprisonment-- YOURS!
So, W, it's time for you and Vice-president
Cheney to quit. President Pelosi will give us a chance to see if we really like women before we elect Hillary.
NancyH, thanks. Nothing could be more clear and true than what you have said at 4:39 p.m.
As Constitutional expert Bruce Fein stated, if Congress confirms Mukasey, after Mukasey has already stated he cannot say that waterboarding is torture, then Congress truly will be a completely "irrelevant" law-making body.
mukasey is dancing around the question , because he knows damn well they have been using this technique, and he doesn't want to incrimidate bush. just another loyal bushy. these assholes don't have any integrity. he's perfect. he'll be confirmed.
Middle Ages...
Kinda sez it all... doesn't it?
The Bush Regime has completely disqualified itself from being considered a legitimate form of government!
I'm completely in favor of annulling all legislation that has been passed and perpetrated upon the American People since Bush and Cheney seized office in 2000!!
It is appalling, and sickenning that Michael Mukaseh, a retired FEDERAL JUDGE, does not want to give an IMPARTIAL JUDGMENT on waterboarding. How can he be considered a judge, if his judgment is biased and based on his association with the "criminal". If such a person is appointed as Attorney General, will he protect the rights of all the American citizens equally, irrespective of calour, creed, and class???
How can the US government and Mukaseh dodge the question on waterboarding when the entire world and the international law categorises it as TORTURE??? How the US president, the government, and the political representatives have reached to a state of savagery and moral depravity!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can any sane human being imagine people who opposed torture being imprisoned? Read this news: "Louis Vitale, 75, a Franciscan priest, and Steve Kelly, 58, a Jesuit priest, were each sentenced to five months in federal prison for attempting to deliver a letter opposing the teaching of torture at Fort Huachuca in Arizona. Both priests were taken directly into jail from the courtroom after sentencing.
"Fort Huachuca is the headquarters of military intelligence in the U.S. and the place where military and civilian interrogators are taught how to extract information from prisoners. The priests attempted to deliver their letter to Major General Barbara Fast, commander of Fort Huachuca. Fast was previously the head of all military intelligence in Iraq during the atrocities of Abu Ghraib.
"In a pre-trial heating, the priests attempted to introduce evidence of torture, murder, and gross violations of human rights in Afghanistan, Abu Ghraib in Iraq, and at Guantanamo. The priests offered investigative reports from the FBI, the US Army, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Physicians for Social Responsibility documenting hundreds of incidents of human rights violations. Despite increasing evidence of the use of torture by U.S. forces sanctioned by President Bush and others, the federal court in Tucson refused to allow any evidence of torture, the legality of the invasion of Iraq, or international law to be a part of the trial."
What happened to the American public and why is there no nationwide opposition to the heinous policies and crimes of its representative government? The reason seems to be what Jason Miller calls "Americanistic Personality Disorder". He describes: "The essential features of Americanistic Personality Disorder include pervasive patterns of extreme self-absorption, profound and long-term lapses in empathy, a deep disregard for the well-being of others, a powerful aversion to intellectual honesty and reality, and a grossly exaggerated sense of the importance of one's self and one's nation. These patterns emerge in infancy, manifest themselves in nearly all contexts, and often become pathological.
"These patterns have also been characterized as sociopathic, or colloquially as the "Ugly American Syndrome." Note that the latter terminology carries too benign a connotation to accurately describe an individual afflicted with such a dangerous perversion of character. For this diagnosis to be given, the individual must be deeply immersed in the flag-waving, nationalistic, and militaristic fervor derived primarily from the nearly perpetual barrage of reality warping emanations of the "mainstream media," most commonly through the medium of television. Typically indoctrinated from birth to believe that they are morally superior, exceptional human beings, these individuals suffer from severe egocentrism, a condition further engendered by the prevalence of the acutely toxic dominant paradigm known as capitalism."
This American public "personality disorder" is also expressed every four years in electing political representatives and the president who have this "Americanistic personality disorder". Sadly, it is the poor and the marginalised communities in the US, and the "economically and militarily poor" countries that become victims of the "Americanistic personality disorder".
This is the best technique to apply to Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, Betrayus, et al, to force them to recite the Constitution of the United States. The practise should continue until each one of them gets it right word for word. If anyone of them messes up, then they all keep getting waterboarded until the last one gets it spot on.
The powers given to the neo-con nazi queers in D.C. Has ruined the whole world. They torture people to take your mind off tapping toes or paying a thousand dollars to get probed by another man. Homos are very dangerous. Bushieboy and Cheney will be next one caught. Who will pitch and who will be catching?
Here's an article about Bush and his sadistic character traits from buzzflash.com (my second favorite progressive web site after commondreams)
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/analysis/227
What a simply lovely bunch of gentlemen we have in charge of us now - to embrace and promote such "enhanced interrogation techniques." I never thought I'd see the day when the Russian president can lecture us on human decency - but leave it up to the Republicans!! If we elect Mitt Romney (heaven forbid) as the next president he'll want to double the amount of "enemy combatants" that are being tortured through waterboarding.
Americans have always commited atrocities, as they are now. That doesn't mean we give up. Americans may never stop torturing. That doesn't make it moral to look the other way and sweep it under the rug. one of the first things I learned in the military was, ignorance of the law is no excuse. What have we become indeed.
No human being could stand by and watch another being tortured. How could you ever begin to consider yourself a human being if you participate in this?
How can we point a finger at Saddam Hussein when we are engaging in the same behavior.
Suppose that we get information about a terrorist attack by using this torture. We may have stopped the attack, but we have compromised the fundamental basis of who we are as a people. Can we say that we stand for liberty and freedom when people are tortured in this manner?
What separates us from our enemies is our humanity and support of individual rights.
This waterboarding procedure and all other methods of torture are against everything I believe as an American. If I catch anyone actually doing it, there's going to be violence.
Let Bush and Cheney decide if it is torture or not torture. They can volunteer for a test to prove whether or not their claims that 'we do not torture' are true. Should solve this dilemma in a matter of seconds.
They are going to confirm this guy and/or anyone else Bush puts up for the nomination. What ever the Dems do they don't want to rock the boat. For heavens sake. they wouldn't want Rush to say nasty things about them. Rush must feel like a God yielding so much influence over a bunch of wimps. If my government teacher were alive to witness this sorry Congress he would have torn his hair out, luckily he is just rolling over and over in his grave.
has anyone in congress introduced a bill to stop this kind of thing?
voxclamantis November 1st, 2007 1:30 pm
What's that Nietsche quote from Thus Spoke Zarathustra.... something like "Even now, man is more ape than any of the apes."
The invasion and occupation of Palestine and Iraq amount to cruel and inhumane treatment of the people there. It cause them much anquish and intense pain. It also causes politically/socially aware people all over the world, the same.
merriam-webster's definition:
TOR-TURE
1 a: anguish of body or mind : agony b: something that causes agony or pain
2: the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3: distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : straining
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torture
River is in Syria now. She recently posted an new piece:
http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
The Spanish Inquisition used waterboarding to punish Jews and other "non-believers." Mr. Mukasey is Jewish. How sad.
This cannot possibly be true, no one in the government of the United States of America, land of the FREE and home of the BRAVE would ever ___ ever, allow this.
Would they?
The US is not alone is using this "Enhanced Interrogation Technique..."
Such Benevolent empires, and nations such as Nazi Germany, Japan in the 1930's, 40's, in the 15th-17th centuries Spain used to against the Jews during the Spanish Inquisition.... Heck, even the King of England authorized it during the 17th and 18th centuries, including in Colonial America.
We're in good company, wouldn't you say?
U.S. government officials have been torturing people who wouldn't kiss up to their corrupt ways ever since the USA came into existence.
There are many forms of torture initiated by U.S. gov't officials that are even worse than waterboarding. The invasion and occupation has caused the deaths of over 800 thousand Iraqi people (mostly civilians) and over a million to be crippled for life. At least a hundred thousand of the crippled are probably little children under 10 years of age. Surely most of the adults would rather be waterboarded that crippled for life. At least they can walk away from waterboarding.
I've read that U.S. soldiers are busting down an average of 800 doors in Iraq every night, then humiliating the men infront of their families and taking any who protest that away. That's another form of torture.
Everyone in Iraq has loved ones and friends who've been killed and crippled by the U.S.A.
"A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience to horrific, suffocating punishment, to the final death spiral. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch."
So this is what that nice Mormon girl, returned-missionary, linguist/translator, Alyssa Peterson was asking to be transferred over after observing for less than a week. This, before her "assemblage point" (loosely borrowed from Carlos Casteneda) collapsed and she killed herself not being able to wrap her mind around it and reconcile it with her beliefs of what she was about and why she was there.
A PTSD factory over there indeed!
" It would leave you to question the meaning of what it is to be an American."
The entire would knows what it means to be an American today, just like they knew what it meant to be a German Nazi in the 30's and 40's
Are we Americans suppose to accept this. Then what have we become if we do?
Don't be dismayed. These are the last days of a dark and barbaric cosmic cycle on Earth. Esoteric Suns (as important to human life as the Sun we all see) are concealed from mankind right now, but will soon be seen by everyone. The anxiousness of the passengers do not speed up the train. Man's loftiest dreams for a utopian world with peace, democracy, and cooperation will come true.
What is the most profound story going on in the world these days, that the oligarchy's news media has ignored?
Read all about it. Believe it or not!
http://www.share-international.org
The official dither over waterboarding doesn't begin to address the routine savagery that takes place in actual prison and combat situations. In Vietnam, Americans dispensed with the subtleties and simply held prisoners heads underwater in the nearest swamp. I have a Life Magazine from the 1960s with a full page, full color photo of an American interrogator matter-of-factly doing that to a female Viet Cong prisoner. Torturing people may be a crime against humanity, but it is also as "American" as apple pie and Christmas.
The exclusivism by which we delude ourselves into thinking we have evolved past common barbarism is not unlike the arrogance by which we feel entitled to treat others with unthinkable cruelty. Perhaps something will yet rescue the race of hominids from its chronic misery, but the American experiment wasn't it.
Not who -- but "what" is Mr. Mukasey that he does not know that inducing a life threatening sensation is indeed torture? That we now cast such elusive and dissociative creatures as the leaders of our society's system of justice says it all. Mind you, this is the same creature who will be in a position to decide how any of us -- our neighbors -- our families -- our children may very be treated when even faintly suspected of whatever. Just imagine your child or parent being suspected of something for which "they" want information -- and your child or parent being waterboarded. Is that torture? I wonder if Mr. Mukasey were forced to observe his mother or child being waterboarded if he might be able to produce a more defintive answer. Oh, by the way -- I wouldn't want him to watch because my conscience tells me that being forced to observe such acts is also a form of torture. The Nazi's knew this -- but then again -- maybe they too had some confusion and didn't call it "torture" if it were conducted on certain types of people. What a wonderful bunch of bullies and thieves these guys are -- and there sure is a long line of them.
Force anyone who does not understand what is involved to:
1. See the movie "RENDITION" with its graphic use of waterboarding as torture. (Better hurry - its being pulled from most theaters this week) OR (better yet)
2. Have it demonstrated with him/her as the person being interrogated. Then have him/her decide if it is torture or not!!!!!
Well, as Bill Clinton said, "It all depends on what your definition of 'IS' is."
www.raycarlson.com
What bothers me is; I'll bet you a nickle Mukasey is confirmed. Just more smoke and mirrors from our selfish, immoral, cowardly congress. That includes the sainted dems.
God damm us all.
Does anyone who has been paying attention really not know intuitively or by referring to the Geneva/UN Conventions that waterboarding is torture ? If Mukasey can't figure it out I don't want him protecting the Constitution of these United States. Thank You