On Torture, 2 Messages and a High Political Cost
WASHINGTON - Six years after the Bush administration embraced harsh physical tactics for interrogating terrorism suspects, and two years after it reportedly dropped the most extreme of those techniques, the taint of torture clings to American counterterrorism efforts.
The administration has a standard answer to queries about its interrogation practices: 1) We do not torture, and 2) we will not say what we do, for fear of tipping off future prisoners. In effect, officials want Al Qaeda to believe that the United States does torture, while convincing the rest of the world that it does not.
But that contradictory catechism is not holding up well under the battering that American interrogation policies have received from human rights organizations, European allies and increasingly skeptical members of Congress.
The administration does not acknowledge scaling back the Central Intelligence Agency's secret detention program, perhaps to avoid implying that earlier methods were immoral or illegal. President Bush has repeatedly defended what the administration calls "enhanced" interrogation methods, saying they have produced invaluable information on Al Qaeda. But the administration's strategy has exacted an extraordinary political cost.
The nomination of Michael B. Mukasey as attorney general, once expected to sail through the Senate, has run into trouble as a result of his equivocation about waterboarding, or simulated drowning. Mr. Mukasey has refused to characterize the technique as torture, which would put him at odds with secret Justice Department legal opinions and could put intelligence officers in legal jeopardy.
At a House hearing last week, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice admitted that the United States had mishandled the case of Maher Arar, a Canadian engineer who was seized in New York in 2002 on suspicion of terrorism and shipped to Syria, where he was imprisoned and severely beaten.
But Ms. Rice refused to acknowledge the torture or to apologize to Mr. Arar, perhaps to avoid exposing to attack the policy of extraordinary rendition, in which the United States delivers suspects to other countries, including some that routinely use torture.
C.I.A. officers have been criminally charged in Italy and Germany in connection with rendition cases. The torture issue has complicated Americans' standing in criticizing other countries.
At a House hearing on the crackdown on dissent in Myanmar, formerly known as Burma, where protest leaders have reportedly endured waterboarding, Jeremy Woodrum, a director of the United States Campaign for Burma, said American conduct was thrown back at him, testifying: "People say, 'Why are you guys talking to us about this when you have the mess in your own backyard?' "
Even inside the government, there are tensions. At the C.I.A., the director, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, has come under fire from Congress for ordering a review of the agency's own inspector general, whose aggressive investigations of secret detention programs have raised hackles.
The moral debate over torture has seeped deeply into popular culture, from the black comedy of "The Daily Show" and its "senior interrogation correspondent" to the new movie "Rendition," based loosely on Mr. Arar's case. Candidates for president have repeatedly faced questions and exchanged barbs on the proper limits of interrogation.
Meanwhile, key members of Congress are raising questions about the future of the C.I.A.'s detention operation. Senator John D. Rockefeller IV, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said in response to a question from The New York Times that it "has produced valuable intelligence, but the question is at what cost?"
Mr. Rockefeller, Democrat of West Virginia, whose committee has recently heard classified testimony about the noncoercive interrogation methods of the F.B.I. and the military, said he was not sure the C.I.A's harsher approach was justified.
"Unfortunately, the intelligence community has not yet made a convincing argument that a separate, secret program is indeed necessary," he said. "The committee is engaged in answering these fundamental questions and fully intends to take action on the future of this program."
Even as the administration has maintained in secret Justice Department legal opinions that its harshest methods are legal, it has quietly but steadily backed away from them in practice.
Since last year, military interrogators have been bound by the new Army Field Manual, which prohibits all physical coercion.
The C.I.A. stopped using waterboarding by the end of 2005, former agency officials have said. Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, said in July that prisoners were also now "not exposed to heat and cold," another technique previously used at the C.I.A.'s secret jails.
But administration officials seem loath to let potential prisoners know they have softened their interrogations. In his July remarks, Mr. McConnell suggested that Qaeda operatives had talked in part "because they believe these techniques might involve torture." At the same time, "the United States does not engage in torture," he said. "The president has been very clear about that."
In a PBS interview with Charlie Rose last week, General Hayden, the C.I.A. director, complained about negative press coverage of the agency's interrogation practices. "What puzzles me is to why there seems to be this temptation, almost irresistible temptation, to take any story about us and move it into the darkest corner of the room," General Hayden said.
Yet, illustrating the administration's predicament, General Hayden did nothing to dispel the mystery about the agency's "enhanced" interrogation tactics.
"What is 'enhanced technique'?" Mr. Rose asked. "Is it something close to torture?"
The C.I.A. director said, "No," adding, "I'm not going to talk about any specific techniques."
Whether Congress will act remains uncertain. Congressional Democrats have cited interrogation policies in blocking the confirmations of John A. Rizzo as general counsel of the C.I.A. and Steven G. Bradbury, author of secret legal opinions on interrogation, as head of the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice Department. Now Mr. Mukasey's confirmation hangs in the balance.
Both the Senate and House Intelligence Committees have held closed hearings on the program. The only public glimpse - unclassified testimony recently released from a Sept. 25 Senate hearing - was a series of fierce attacks by human rights advocates, legal experts and a veteran interrogator on the effectiveness and morality of harsh interrogation.
Most Republicans, for now, are offering the administration conditional support. Senator Christopher S. Bond of Missouri, the vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee, said that he was concerned about the international reputation of the United States and that Congress "should continue to look at what other methods are effective."
But Mr. Bond said conversations with C.I.A. interrogators had convinced him that some legal but tough tactics could work on recalcitrant suspects. "Coercion has opened the dialogue," he said.
© 2007 The New York Times
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40 Comments so far
Show AllTheLorax October 30th, 2007 3:02 pm
i checked it out... the word torture is not bocked on the website... they have like a dozen definitions
George's folks taught him that sticking lit firecrackers up frog's butts is not torture or sexual harrassment unless the frog makes a formal complaint to a judge and the court cannot be bought off.
George Bush isn't my president, either. I refuse to acknowledge him as such. He's a disgrace. He's a lying, torturing, sorry excuse for humanity. He and his sick, twisted political party have no excuse of any kind for what they have done! No excuse!
Bush and Cheney are just pawns in the game...
"What would have happened if millions of American and British people, struggling with coupons and lines at the gas stations, had learned that in 1942 Standard Oil of New Jersey [part of the Rockefeller empire] managers shipped the enemy's fuel through neutral Switzerland and that the enemy was shipping Allied fuel? Suppose the public had discovered that the Chase Bank in Nazi-occupied Paris after Pearl Harbor was doing millions of dollars' worth of business with the enemy with the full knowledge of the head office in Manhattan [the Rockefeller family among others?] Or that Ford trucks were being built for the German occupation troops in France with authorization from Dearborn, Michigan? Or that Colonel Sosthenes Behn, the head of the international American telephone conglomerate ITT, flew from New York to Madrid to Berne during the war to help improve Hitler's communications systems and improve the robot bombs that devastated London? Or that ITT built the FockeWulfs that dropped bombs on British and American troops? Or that crucial balI bearings were shipped to Nazi-associated customers in Latin America with the collusion of the vice-chairman of the U.S. War Production Board in partnership with Goering's cousin in Philadelphia when American forces were desperately short of them? Or that such arrangements were known about in Washington and either sanctioned or deliberately ignored?."
Charles Higham, researcher, about U.S.-Nazi collaboration during WWII
Excerpts Trading with the Enemy The Nazi - American Money Plot
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Trading_Enemy_excerpts.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com
People often reveal themselves in their choice of words and metaphors(which is why all the candidates read from a memorized script instead of answering the question):
"to take any story about us and move it into the darkest corner of the room." Apparently, Mr. Hayden has darkest corners of rooms on his mind when talking about "not torturing". I wonder how many prisoners at Gitmo and Abu Graihb spend their days in dark corners?
rebelnow October 30th, 2007 3:45 pm
and
jld_overseas October 30th, 2007 4:16 pm
Here in Africa people found out a while ago that dictators also have the fear of the angry mobs and they rather keep on hanging on to power than face accountability. That is the reason why sometimes a neighbouring country offers 'refuge' or 'asylum' to a dictator, just to motivate him to step down. Nigeria made an offer to Robert Mugabe before the last elections in Zimbabwe but he refused.
As long as Bush is in power the priority should be to remove him from power. Unfortunately, bringing him and his entourage to justice, is at present only a luxury problem. Maybe Paraguay will come to your rescue and don't be ungrateful for that....
I heard that there is still torture going on, and that one of the most inhumane torture techniques is to play George Bush's speaches over and over again. Apparently many prisoners have become insane, and joined the republican party.
And since Gonzales, Mukasey, Rice and others have not been forthcoming in their testimony, why don't the congressional committees start waterboarding them? After all, it's not torture!
Bush, Cheney, Rice, and their acolytes lie so often, so predictably, that it would be best just to furnish everyone with a numbered list of the lies and they can recite the numbers in their speeches, press conferences and testimony. It'll save a whole lot of time and ink.
"WHAT WE DO DO" says it all.
Watching TV ... "the spy that came in from the cold" from John LeCarre's novel, movie made in 1966.
"I claim the right to be ignorant, its the western way of life" (Richard Burton as defecting English spy).
"I couldn't have put it better myself" (East German spy)
Things haven't changed much. And LeCarre always has a nice eye for it.
Torturers Without Borders?
If Mukasey can't admit what any idiot knows is torture is torture then he is either a very special idiot or another Bush lap dog whelp from the same mendacious mold as Gonazales. We don't need either. We need someone who will bring criminals to justice, not simply promise to review any "coercive interrogation techniques" used by U.S. intelligence operatives once confirmed. Mukasey's statement that if he determines them to be torture, "I will not hesitate to so advise the president and will rescind or correct any legal opinion of the Department of Justice that supports use of the technique" are the words of a person who is not committed to bringing justice to those violated. Simply put if you torture, or conspire to torture, you should be prosecuted. The American people should expect no less. The people dying to defend America and its principles should demand it.
Bush is not my president - he is a son of a bitch, a war criminal and nothing more than filth.
What is it that ties such politicians as George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Karl Rove to the big goons at Abu Ghraib or the counter-protesters at Smithfield, North Carolina?
It is, first and foremost, an underlying sadism, related to cowardice and character weakness.
As governor of Texas, Bush held the record for capital punishments. As president his big thing has been to stick suppositories up the rectums of anybody who looked funny and fly them off in small/medium planes to other countries to torture them.
"We don't torture," he says. Why can't a reporter just once ask, "So why are your pants on fire?"
Here are some of the chants sung this past weekend by us "moonbats"-- an almost humorous term used by Smithfield counterprotesters, who are mostly "Eagles"-- i.e., pro-torture, pro-war, combat medal wearing Vietnam War vets.
Their main agenda is not to allow anyone to disparage present soldiers the way they felt disparaged during the Vietnam protests. "For it's one-two-three, what are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn. Next stop is Vietnam."
The march and speeches and child performances were held at or in the area of the Smithfield town park next to the swirling brown Neuse River. Above the river was a high bridge draped with huge American flags. Behind the protesters, at the top of the natural ampitheater, in a neat, sinister row, was an unbroken phalanx of also huge American flags.
Turn them all white and you'd have the Ku Klux Klan.
Out on the river a swamp buggy with three
Nazis aboard did figure eights, hoping the
the noisy fan would drown out every protester's voice.
One of the speakers showed a huge photograph of a rendition plane identified by civil rights advocates in Germany. It was in Smithfield as recently as last week.
The planes come to Aero-contract, Inc., a private company at the local airport four
miles away, with new chain link topped with barbed wire all over the place. The Eagles make no attempt to refute the torture and rendition evidence-- at least not at their website. Aero-contract has one client: the CIA.
When the speeches were over, the police allowed the conflicting groups to be penned in together at a chain-link cul-de-sac, where the Eagles, their faces six inches away, said or shouted every unpleasant thing they could think of.
"YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!" a
three-hundred pounder screamed into the ears of a slight, blond-haired woman.
He turned away. The woman looked up at me with a smile. "He probably always gets things backward," I said.
We were there to tie to the fence some of the many photographs of actual American torture victims-- most of them dark-skinned people from other countries.
Aero-contract had threaded slats through the chain link to make our task impossible or more difficult. Even the kids, though, succeeded in the tieing the photos up.
The reason the Eagles weren't killing or mashing us (or torturing us-- why pull punches?), they explained, was that the cops had asked them not to.
No more shackles, no more hoods,
Secret prisons closed for good,
Justice, peace and human rights.
Ground the Smithfield torture flights!
But the highlight of the whole day was at Aero-contract when the Eagles started singing "God Bless America" and the protesters, far more numerous, picked it
up (at which point the Eagles stopped singing, I believe).
We're "STOP TORTURE"!
We are proud
We are one voice
We are loud!
We are many
We'll be more -
NO! TO TORTURE!
NO! TO WAR!
Lets pretend that I was the pilot on the aircraft to deliver the weapons of mass destruction to Ala. I would have tried to find the coward resting point of Bushieboy and Gayboy Cheney. Then we the real Americans would be free from the real terroist.
Question: If the Iranians captured one of our military personnel, and used some of the 'enhanced interrogation' techniques on them, would we call it torture?
(Yeah, I know ... a rhetorical question to this bunch)
It's torture for me to have Bush as dictator.
When I started bringing up Orwell in 2000-01, everyone said, "Ah, quit bringing up that Orwell crap. This is the United States, that sort of thing will never happen here!"
I see Orwell appearing on many sites, now that it is probably too late.
By the way, that faint and slowly rising whine you hear at night, just as you are dropping off to sleep is Orwell spinning in his grave, at about 35,000 RPM and rising.
"They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."
-- 1984 -- George Orwell
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TheLorax October 30th, 2007 3:02 pm
"Please visit www.dictionary.com
Type in TORTURE and see what the result is…
Oh you can't can you… the definition of torture has been blocked there. You can look up any other word you want except torture."
Lorax, I went to the site, typed "Pleasure," got eight entries. Typed in "Torture" and got eight very detailed entries. I did notice that when I typed it in, it left the final "e" off. I added the e and it worked fine, so that might have been the problem.
Torture is bad, with or without dictionary access.
A rose is a rose.....call it torture...or enhanced terror-gation...if they can't make it public....and have something to hide...it is torture.
go to pages 647 & 648 of the book, www.amoralamerica.info for copies of 'Final Autopsy Reports' from the US Army 'Armed Forces Institute of Pathology'. These reports detail the torture deaths of men held by American forces.
Book may be read online or downloaded for free.
RebelNow: I used to wonder the same thing - why do they hate them so much? - when a former Nazi was found and charged with war crimes. I wondered why they couldn't just get over it and let these 70+-year-old men just get on with their lives.
Now, I too, know.
May the world never ever give up on bringing every member of the Bush administration (first admin and second admin) to justice for their war crimes.
I remember, as a kid, looking at pictures of an executed Mussolini strung up and hanging from his angles. The executioners had to forcefully keep the crowds in Milan from mauling the corpse.
Why did they hate him so much?, I wondered.
Now I know.
For more on waterboarding, hit up
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/gitmo-shirt
there's good graphic of it. also, cool site.
The torturers have to talk about torture to reap the political payoff - the loyalty of the vicious sector of the population. They also want to cultivate the viciousness and venegeance, because they need that energy to power their future wars. One of the main goals of the criminal network has been to cultivate hate and violence so that it will maintain its strength and not be conquered by peace and justice. Why Common Dreams has to continue torturing us with photos of the chimp remains a mystery.
Please visit www.dictionary.com
Type in TORTURE and see what the result is...
Oh you can't can you... the definition of torture has been blocked there. You can look up any other word you want except torture.
annabelle October 30th, 2007 1:33 pm
It does provide forced confessions for ideological gain.
I want to laugh whenever I hear the fascist imperialists call other people "Bad Guys." They sound like they're still in grade school. They need to take a good look in the mirror if they think they're the "Good Guys."
Why not subject a few well chosen officials (Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld) to our 'proven' methods of 'non torture' interrogation to find out what really happened on 9/11. Nudity, freezing temperatures, isolation, electrodes, deafening sounds, simulated drowning. Maybe we would get some answers, but then again maybe not as torture does not prove realiable information.
These two in the white house are going to be the first not to write any memoirs... Not just because one of them can't write, but because they both are absolutely aware that what they are doing is wrong, illegal, and immoral.
Crimes against humanity.
YES IT IS TRUE, ANY AMERICAN CHILD CAN GROW UP TO BE PRESIDENT, NO MATTER HOW EVIL.
What we do is a secret.
Who we do it to is a secret.
What we supposedly learn is a secret.
The CIA director doesn't understand why people have a problem with that.
Perhaps that's because it's not a secret.
We don't torture.
If you have evidence that we tortured yesterday that is irrelevant because: (1) you don't know what we did today or will do tomorrow since our interrogation policy is not public, (2) it is axiomatic that whatever WE do is by definition not torture and not illegal because the president has inherent authority, (3) this is the War against Terrorism and therefore anything goes to stop the evildoers, (4) the evidence you have will never be seen on TV in the civilized world, only on Al Jazeera and they're evil,(5) "mistakes" may have been made in the past but we are concerned about the future while you with your evidence are stuck in the past.
Maher Arar was not "severely beaten" in Syria. He was TORTURED, he was imprisoned in a grave-like cell for 10 months.
The US Does not Torture. I am not writing this on the computer. This is not common dreams. The words logged in as dlnelson7 do not exist above. Saying something doesn't make it so.
"The Good Guys" don't torture. Period. If necessary, they kill, but never torture.
If you are torturing people, or ordering the torture of people, or covering up torturing people, or giving sanction that torturing people can happen if it gets you what you want, or sitting silently doing nothing when you know that people are being tortured, then you are Evil and if you will not stop being Evil then "The Good Guys" have to kill you.
Does America still have any "Good Guys" that will actually take the fight to Evil? (Yes, capital E, Evil! That's what you've got. Evil that starts with the capital.)
When are you going to put down the remote/gamepad/burger etc, and go get rid of your problem?
Bush. On trial at the Hague. Let us work to make this a reality.
meanwhile, the pro-mafia cuban terrorists who blew up a civilian airliner, killing all aboard, are walking the streets of miami safe from extradition to venezuela because, it is claimed, they "might be" tortured.
"mess in (y)our own backyard" indeed.