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Democrats Are Hocking Their Agenda As If They Were at a Fire Sale
The Bush years have been so crushing that progressives have now set their expectations at disastrously low levels
Just over a week ago, about a thousand activists from the Christian right gathered in Washington to pass verdict on the Republican presidential candidates. At the Family Research Council's Values Voters summit, the values most cherished did not sit well with most Americans. Polls show that a consistent and substantial majority in the US are pro-choice, supports stem cell research and opposes amending the constitution to ban gay marriage. All these issues figure low on the list of national priorities and high on the agenda of the FRC. None the less, all the leading Republican contenders showed up.
The more out of touch with mainstream America they sounded, the greater the applause. "Sometimes we talk about why we're importing so many people in our workforce," said Mike Huckabee. "It might be, for the last 35 years, we have aborted more than a million people who would have been in our workforce had we not had the holocaust of liberalised abortion." Huckabee was rewarded with a strong second-place showing in the summit's straw poll.
At the weekend, well over 100,000 anti-war protesters gathered around the country to protest about the occupation of Iraq. The demands of the demonstrations chimed with the views of most Americans. Polls show a consistent and substantial majority oppose the war and want the troops withdrawn immediately or soon. Indeed, at 34%, the proportion of Americans who support the war is identical to the proportion polled last week who believe in ghosts and UFOs.
Despite Iraq remaining the number one priority among voters, none of the leading Democratic presidential contenders appeared at any of the marches.
Primary season is an ideal moment to examine the relationship between the different parties and their core supporters. Come the presidential elections, both sides will have to tack to the centre in a bid for coveted swing voters. But in the primaries, the candidates' task is to preach to the choir and, maybe, give them a new and better song to sing.
Republican candidates dedicate considerable effort to galvanising their base. At the FRC summit, the thrice-married and twice-divorced Rudolph Giuliani, who is pro-choice and insufficiently anti-gay, made a bid for their trust and understanding. He came in second last with just 2% of the vote. But he was there.
The Democratic candidates, meanwhile, seem embarrassed by their own supporters. Although they are perennially absent from anti-war rallies, they will show up at black churches, trade union fundraisers and the occasional gay event. But when it comes to articulating support for those causes or communities, they lose their voices.
But if the Democrats have an abusive relationship with their supporters, their supporters are complicit in that abuse. Democrats overwhelmingly support troop withdrawal from Iraq yet back candidates who favour keeping troops in the region indefinitely. The gay community continues to give the main candidates huge amounts of money even though all of them oppose gay marriage. They seem to like it this way. For even though Republican candidates have lavished far more attention on core supporters, it is Democratic voters who are far more satisfied with their candidates.
There is an important lesson in this apparent paradox for those who seek progressive social change. Republican politicians continue to court Christian conservatives precisely because they are not happy - they might do something about it, and the party cannot do without them. There are two reasons for this. First, Christian conservatives are well organised and can deliver votes. Second, those votes are contingent on the Republicans delivering political results.
The progressive left can claim neither of those qualities. A national anti-war movement - one that meets, decides, acts and lobbies effectively on a national level - has never truly taken shape. There are tens of thousands of anti-war activists, who have heroically kept a presence and the conversation going in their communities. This is also true for feminists and gay activists, who once formed the bedrock of the Democratic base. But Latinos and black activists are better organised on a national level.
A new coalition of interests and forces that could play that role may be in the making. The web-based MoveOn.org has done brilliant work on single issues, but has been unable to cohere enough people around a coherent enough agenda to make an electoral impact. Netroots has also notched up impressive achievements (the Labour left could learn a great deal from both), but its work is largely confined to getting better Democrats elected. There is nothing wrong with this - indeed, it is crucial. But, strategically, it has its limits.
Christian conservatives have always made it clear their primary loyalty is to their agenda, not to the party most likely to support it. They may work hand in glove with Republicans, but they feel free to take their hand out of the glove at any moment. The morning after the last presidential election, a White House aide called Focus on the Family's founder, James Dobson, to thank him for his support. Dobson replied with a warning: if the administration snubbed conservative Christians, particularly with respect to supreme court nominations, the party would "pay a price in four years".
Although it's difficult to see how George Bush could have delivered more, this is precisely what seems to be happening now. According to the Pew Research Centre, Bush's support among white evangelicals has slumped.
All politics is a negotiation. It goes without saying that if you set your price too high, or walk away too soon, you could miss out on a great deal. It is equally self-evident that if you set your price too low, or your counterpart knows you will never walk away, you will sell out far too cheaply. But there are few as powerful in a negotiation as those who understand their value and are prepared to walk away. For decades, progressive activists have been hocking their agenda as though at a fire sale. The Bush years have been so disastrous they have forgotten that many of the things they are campaigning against now - Nafta, the gay marriage amendment, greater economic inequality, the ban on photographing soldiers' coffins coming home - were introduced under Bill Clinton. Their fears that things could get worse overrides any confidence that they could improve. So they settle for candidates who will make things get worse at a slower pace and on a less dramatic scale. Sometimes, as in 2004, these low expectations make sense. But as an overriding strategy it is a recipe for perennial disappointment and disaffection.
The Christian right has shown that there is sufficient democratic space for movements to play a role in shaping the political narrative, regardless of who the electoral protagonists are, so long as those movements can prove their clout and exercise their independence.
"Some might compare the religious right to a snake," a Wichita evangelist, Terry Fox, told the New York Times. "We may be in our hole right now, but we can come out and bite you at any time." It's time for progressives to get out of their hole and find some teeth.
Gary Younge, the Alfred Knobler Journalism Fellow at The Nation Institute, is the New York correspondent for the Guardian and the author of No Place Like Home: A Black Briton's Journey Through the Deep South (Mississippi) and Stranger in a Strange Land: Travels in the Disunited States (New Press).
© 2007 The Guardian



79 Comments so far
Show AllThey take the base for granted figuring they have no where else to go. That is why they put more energy into defeating, blaming, marginalizing any third party populist threats. That is their real competition because then they won't be able to hold the base hostage since they never worry about them defecting to the Right.
Meanwhile they court and pander to them who brung them to the dance. They are basically frontmen for the big money men who run the show. Nothing really to do with us as the people of the country and what we think or want. They just play their roles for us as not as bad as them. Something we are constantly lectured to about by party cheerleaders--either too naive or too wed to the manufactured consensus projected on the cave walls.
The sad truth is that no matter what the Dims say or who they run, most of you will demand support of the so-called "lesser eveil" and condemn the "impracticality" of running an alternative ticket.
What we need is a unified "take back America" movement that runs a real alternative vision with respecatble candidates that speaks to mainstream Americans. We need to offer accountability, honesty and a platform of peace, environmentalism and populist common sense including jobs restructuring of our national infrastructure in a more sustainable way.
This can be done and could be our only chance to save this society from collapse given the ecological changes that are coming but we won't do this. Instead we'll continue to squabble about the supposed need to support a Clinton over a Guiliani.
A confusing article as it is, the author fails to point out that the GOP never really does away with gay marriages, abortions, and even stem cell research. Both parties actually BETRAY their "social" bases. It's just that one party does it openly while their other does it STEALTHILY. The author also FAILS to point out the real base of the GOP is the wealthy/business elites which they do a hell of a job satisfying. The Democrats' economic base gets a fake "we'll help the poor" BULLSHIT and then flicks them off once the elections are over just like the GOP does to its "social" base.
What this author and most authors FAIL to understand most of all is the only ideology that both parties are for is the ideology of GREED.
When will people learn that the ideology fight is a red herring to keep gullible voters' attention focused on something of zero consequence to the well-being of the average American? Never, I guess. The pro-wrestling, the rigged fake fights are just more fun to watch until the arena burns down.
Who cares what a bribe-taker says???
Because when someone is corrupt it doesn't matter what is their party affiliation is. All you need to is that they are crooked as a dog's hind leg and only represent those who pay them.
For example, suppose you are Satan. You can run as a candidate in any party, or movement. All you have to do is bone up on the predominant ideological slant, and then become a zealot for that ideology. Except that, since you're Satan, your agenda has nothing to do with the B.S. You're gonna lie and BULLSHIT spew to get elected.
It is a ruse. A con. Very few of the politicians elected to federal office have any concern whatsoever about the ideology that they rode on to get there. Do you really think Mike Huckabee believes any of the crap he said to cheer up those sick puppy supporters in the audience? Of course not.
We've seen that with numerous Democrats who have taken in record amounts of K Street cash and the backroom deals cut by Dingel, Rangel and Pelosi in regards to the gutting of CAFE standards, energy legislation and secret trade deals. Unfortunately, most people are fixated on ideology rather than the bribe taking politico. The Republicans have already learned the hard way that George W. wasn't really a Conservative from any slant, especially fiscally. They lie to get elected.
Ideology is the sheep's clothing that the wolf wears. So corruption doesn't merely trump ideology, it entirely voids it, because ideology is just a costume to be worn to get into the party. Once you're past the bouncers, you can take it off, leave it in the corner by a plant, and head for the bar to get liquored up with the lobbyists who pay for your lifestyle.
Tattoo this somewhere so you can read it each day:
CORRUPTION VOIDS IDEOLOGY
Jaded Parole is correct. Until we have a viable third (fourth, fifth . . . ) party, nothing will change. A new party, though, needs a forceful, honest and dedicated leaderhip, something no party has at this time. Even so, I remain optimistic. There must be someone out there.
It must be bigger than another "party." It must be a movement that unifies a left prone to factionalism.
The Repubs win elections by energizing their base and scaring the hell out of the middle. The Dems try to win elections by pissing off their base and pandering to the middle.
Which party has been more successful since, say, 1980? I am sick and tired of being lectured by "sensible" people about practical politics. Things just keep getting worse and the political center of gravity keeps moving to the right
and "sensible" people think the answer is to keep on doing what we have been doing.
To hell with the Democrats. I have taken the pledge! I will NOT vote for Hillary Clinton! Ever! For anything!
Easy for them to say - They don't live here.
Worst case scenario - Clinton vs. Giuliani for president!!!
Talk about stench.
Frank Herbert in "Dune" said 'The power to destroy is the power to control.' If you can destroy something, then you can exercise control over it by wielding that threat.
Its time for the left to show we have the power to destroy Democratic party campaigns across the board. If the Democrats lose big in an election year, and its obvious that it happened because their progressive base left them en masse, then things will change. There is only one thing that gets a politician's attention .... losing elections. Its time to get the attention of a LOT of Democrats.
Please don't vote Democrat!
Please come to Denver next year to tell the Democrats what you really think of them!
I don't live there either, curmugeon99, but I'm closer than the authors of this piece. From here, it seems there's but one electoral choice in 2008 for American progressives, regardless of what you may think of the Democratic leadership (and I certainly won't waste my keyboard pecks defending their corporate backsides): Dennis Kucinich for President!
I would be thrilled to vote for Dennis Kucinich, but he isn't running for President. He's "running" for a nomination he can't possibly get: the party machinery will make quite certain of that, along with the MSM.
In reality, he's running to keep people like you in the Democratic Party, where they have no business being. The Party has been pushing you away with both hands for at least a decade; when are you going to get the message? Does it feel really good, beating your head against that brick wall?
There IS a Peace party in this country; there IS a genuinely progressive party: the Greens. They "can't win"? Not if people like you don't vote and work for them. Like the "major" parties, we intend to run hard in '08, including for the presidency, and we're now sorting out our potential candidates. Of course, the MSM doesn't cover that; like the Dims, they like to pretend we don't exist.
Ultimately, it's up to you: you can join, make a weak party strong, and at least send a clear message next year; or you can stick with the party that threw the last few elections. Our fate is in your hands.
[quote]The Christian right has shown that there is sufficient democratic space for movements to play a role in shaping the political narrative, ...[/quote]
Is there? Or has one side simply been more successful at co-opting and manipulating those segments of the voting base that can be expected to be more in tune with their political agenda that is actually determined by corporate interests and financial support in both cases?
It's certainly tough getting and maintaining popular support when your pretentions bear no relationship to the true "shaping" of your underlying intent. Apparently it can be done, however.
Hank Fur...Absolutely
DK and the handful of others like him are the gatekeepers. Their primary task is to keep Progressives from wandering off to some other party. They hold out the illusory hope that if we just work hard enough, within the party, then "real" Democrats can be nominated and elected.
Let's face the truth. The Real Democrats today are the CLintons, Pelosi, Reid, Emmanuel, etc. UGH!
I will not stay where I am not wanted and that is in the Real democratic party.
Jaded Prole and others- you have just described the Green Party, www.GP.org
Until voters stop wasting their votes and money with the democrats who will betray them every time, and support candidates that will actually stand up for what they believe in, we will get more of the same Bush/Clinton/Binton/Clush miasma.
So, don't whine about "no viable third party" all the while you vote and your donations go to the democrats - you will get what you pay for: warmongering corporate sell-outs.
McDee. I loved your references to Dems and Reps. Can I quote you?
Anyone who buys into the nonsense that elections are about the social issues is a useful idiot for the corporate oligarchy. The oligarchy wants the common nobodies, the "little people," to focus on social issues and to vote based on that while they rob us, and the rest of the world, blind and steal our children's future.
It is amazing how so many otherwise intelligent people, particularly progressives, get duped into playing this game.
Watching the gyrations of the Democratic party as it evolves into a kid glove reactionary re-creation of Tammany Hall is as loathsome as it is fascinating. They don't fool their so-called base yet they persist in trying. It's like watching Marlon Brando in some of his worst movies. Hillary Clinton, the Joseph K of the Democrats, has already evolved into the corporate insect we all knew her to be in the first place. Yet the Dems apparently are going to give her the nomination. They can then have the stomach churning pleasure of watching the Republicans swift boat her into utter oblivion and we will, yet again, have another Republican beer hall brawler as Der Fuhrer. Gott mit uns, meine Damen und Herren!
Folks, I usually log on late but I simply want to say that I have been following the regular contributors for months and while I see both passion and wisdom, I also see that we desperately need to stop focusing on the "rightness" of our particular views, and see if we really can find common ground for what I do believe is our common dream for a better system for our own govt. and a life-affirming planetary view. How do we get there? Not by sniping and carping and insisting we are right. Let's face it, my friends, we are ALL right, and ALL wrong on some level. What we resist. persists. Let's start creating, not just criticizing. Don't buy into the false notion that one person cannot make a difference!!!! There are countless examples of the opposite. We all neeed to experience a paradigm shift where we roll up our collective sleeves, join hands and start creating a better reality. Screw Washington politics! They will have to catch up to us!
starofthesea,
While I totally agree that creating the world we want to see is imperative, you need both critique and action in order to be effective. What we resist doesn't always persist; if it did, every human rights movement past and present would have been for nothing.
"Instead we'll continue to squabble about the supposed need to support a Clinton over a Guiliani."
If the race comes down to Clinton, Giuliani, or a third party candidate at 1% in the polls - and this is probably what's going to happen - then progressives should vote for Giuliani.
The truth is that a liberal, progressive agenda isn't going anywhere until
1) the Democratic Party is cleansed of its Republican wing
or
2) the Democratic Party is destroyed
and neither of those things can happen as long as conservative Democrats win elections. Therefore, the only course for a true progessive is to vote against Clintonite Democrats at every opportunity, even when that means electing Republicans.
The whole problem is one of simple logic, and if progressives would just allow logic to enter their heads, we might actually get somewhere. If, on the other hand, we continue being mentally constipated and only think one step ahead, it won't be long before the U.S. is a RW dictatorship.
All politics is money.
Do we complain when rich immigrants come to live here?
Dems are abusive toward their supporters because they don't get their money from them.
The only way to get real representation is to take the money out of politics.
The Election Has Already Been Stolen
In the election of 2000, over 4 million electronic votes were lost (MIT/Cal Poly Study of the 2000 election). In the election of 2004, 121.8 million people went to the polls and only 113.9 million votes were counted(Election Data Services Study of 2004 Election). Again, almost 8 million electronic votes disappeared.
There is no doubt that Hillary Clinton has been anointed as the Democratic Candidate by the Corporate Media and that Rudy, I will attack Iran, Giuliani has been anointed as the Republican Candidate.
Everyone, except the Democratic Party, knows that neither a woman nor an Afro-American can win an election in the United States unless they have been chosen by the "Political Elite".
The issue is Iraq and now 1.2 million people dead and 4 million refugees living outside of their homeland. (British Study)
The dollar has dropped in value over 55% in the past 6 years. Oil has jumped to almost $90 a barrel.....Yes in 2001 $.89 got 1 Euro today it is $1.44 and expected to drop to $1.60 for a Euro.....The American public has been paying a "Corporate Devaluation Tax" on their gasoline for the past five years.......Instead of Mobil/Exxon losing money, they chose to raise prices and the American public has paid trillions of dollars so that Mobil/Exxon et al. can have profits of 32 billion dollars and revenues of 321 billion dollars(Mobil/Exxon´s 2006 total).......Oh, and oil is expected to reach $100 a barrel......
The "Invasions" of Iraq and Afghanistan are Corporate America´s way of taking the money and running.......Profits for Halliburton, Bechtel, Carlysle Group, Lockheed Martin, Blackwater, Accenture et al. are obscene..........Naomi Klein has it right..go back to 9/11.
restive, While I agree that critique and action are important, I think we have thouroughly analyzed what is wrong---our system no longer ( if it ever did) represents the interests of its citizens. How does one resolve that? This is where we go round and round.... I maintain that being against the staus quo seems to keep us in a paradigm of complaint and arguing about tactics to defeat the status quo. I am suggesting we just start envisioning a very different system that begins with individuals and percolates up. All movements for change begin with a handful of committed individuals who have a vision and can lead. We can begin in our own communities to start creating that force for change. Entrenched interests are not going to shift until we create a groundswell from "below" and that aint gonna happen if we keep arguing about tactics ad nauseam. Change begins with ourselves.
FreeQuark,
The outcome of the logical analysis depends on the assumptions. I would argue that the US will become a right-wing dictatorship if Giuliani is elected US President. The man is a complete fascist, with a tremendous amount of courage, an over-supply of ambition, and a fair amount of intelligence. He is Bush/Cheney on steroids. And there are four fascists on the Supreme Court now (Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts, who all support the unitary executive theory, also known as "one-man rule"; Kennedy is a conservative Republican who actually believes in the balance of powers, however warped his other views may be), and the next opening is almost certain to occur within the next few years, meaning Giuliani could appoint a fifth fascist to the Court, which would be game, set, and match! Giuliani is the only one who could make the choice to vote for a Democrat an easy one.
[quote]starofthesea October 29th, 2007 2:41 pm -- restive, While I agree that critique and action are important, I think we have thouroughly analyzed what is wrong—our system no longer ( if it ever did) represents the interests of its citizens. How does one resolve that?[/quote]
If you have indeed "thouroughly analyzed what is wrong", the answer would seem self-evident. In order for "the system" once again to "represent the interests of its citizens", the system itself must be changed so that the dominance of other interests is curtailed.
I'm not a constitutional lawyer. So I don't know how you might do that except to suggest that the mistake of court awarded "corporate personhood" needs to be corrected as a starting place. The rights associated with that "personhood" are what give them much of their power to exercise financial ond other forms of control far outweighing those available to any natural person. And you pay for all of that in more ways than one.
Many good posts here. I would like to share a practical approach that I am going to follow this election cycle. Of course, that is assuming that there will be an election, which is another issue.
Progressive voters, be they independent or Dimms, are fed up with the corporate/bought off candidates they keep getting. We have learned over time that no matter what a DLC backed candidate says in a campaign, when elected they will dance with thems that brung um - and that ain't WE THE PEOPLE. In the past, Progressives have been willing to vote for the lessor of two evils, hoping to buy some time to fix the Dimm party from within. Well, taking the Congress in 2006 sure didn't get us anywhere. The lesson is that WE THE PEOPLE only have voting power in the primaries. The next step is that if the candidates that gain the ballot do not truely represent WE THE PEOPLE, than they shouldn't get your vote. Period.
FreeQuark has it absolutely right. If the Dimms can't give us candidates that represent US, the PEOPLE, than they deserve to implode. And that isn't going to happen if we keep voting for the lessor of two evils. I will do everything in my power to make that happen and force the changes that the Dimms have to make if they want to EARN my vote.
Here's the deal: ALWAYS vote your conscience in the primaries. If the Dimms don't give you a candidate to vote FOR, withdraw from the party and YELL real loud at the DLC as to why you are leaving. NEVER use your vote to vote for anyone that you don't support. That includes Repug candidates. That is just biting your nose to spite your face.
Given the candidates that will probably be running for Prez in '08, it really doesn't matter who wins. The Congressional races are far more important. We need a Congress that will stand up to the Executive Branch, no matter which party they belong to. So, get yourself involved in local/state races. Make sure that your congress critters are OF, BY, and FOR the people. And make sure that the DLC incumbants find new jobs!
P.S. NEVER give money to a party. Only give money to candidates that you can vote FOR.
Thanks for listening.
starofthesea,
"I maintain that being against the staus quo seems to keep us in a paradigm of complaint and arguing about tactics to defeat the status quo. I am suggesting we just start envisioning a very different system that begins with individuals and percolates up."
We're actually close to agreement here. What I would add though is that being against the status quo is exactly what gets us to the point of wanting to change things; as such, where you see a paradigm of complaint and arguing, I see friction - leading to heat, leading (hopefully) to change. I do agree that complaining in and of itself is not enough, and that the left has plenty of people who love to complain more than act - and I wholeheartedly agree about envisioning a different system from the ground up. In fact, that is already taking place, if you look around.
Rebel Farmer,
How can you be so sure that if Giuliani is elected, then progressives and others get another bite at the apple in future elections? I would bet my bottom dollar that if Giuliani is elected, the apple will be gone and it will never come back. At that point, the USA would be a lost cause, inevitably descending into a fascist state of poverty and hopelessness, and elections would be less suspenseful and meaningful than those Saddam ran in Iraq. And the best any American could do would be to use any means necessary to prevent the US government from starting WWIII.
[quote]kivals October 29th, 2007 3:22 pm -- How can you be so sure that if Giuliani is elected, then progressives and others get another bite at the apple in future elections?[/quote]
Are you confident that that danger exists only if Giuliani is elected?
When it comes to the ongoing curtailment of "freedom and democracy" at home I certainly don't see the establishment Dims as likely saviors. To the contrary, if "representatives" like Jane Harman have their way, you won't even be allowed to speak progressive thoughts aloud lest they be deemed subversive.
kivals, I think elections are already meaningless. We just haven't realized it yet. When Nancy Pelosi was making appointments, she chose Raul Emmanuel to chair the DCCC (Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee). The DCCC policy is hands off in primaries, but Emmanuel ignored that and squelched progressive primary candidates, supporting DLC candidates, even if it meant losing general elections, which in some cases it did.
As far as it being too late, all over, the end has come, I'm not that hopeless. We may go through a rough patch, but I believe things can change. Unfortunately, until the majority of Americans feel an unacceptable level of pain, they will continue to sleep through their civic responsibilities.
We have a responsibility to boycott the Democratic Party, something that should have been done years ago with less disastrous consequences. But the longer we wait, the worse the consequences. How bad do you want to see it get? Do you have any imagination?
It's silly to vote for a criminal like Rudy instead of a criminal like Hillary. Vote your conscience. Write in your candidate if needed.
Hey, Rebel Farmer, you know me better as Kathyodat.
Arvy,
There are an infinite number of degrees of evil and degrees of danger. I am a socialist who has voted for Democrats and for third parties in the past, depending on the situation. However, Giuliani makes all the alarm bells in my brain go off simultaneously. I perceive him to be, by far, the most dangerous viable candidate for US president in my lifetime (I am 50).
Certainly all the major candidates are seriously flawed, as they know for certain that the corporate media and the media's allies on Wall Street would shoot them down in an instant if they did not promise to protect the interests of the corporate oligarchy, especially the interests of the corporate media and the military industrial complex, and Israel's right wing. But that does not make them indistinguishable. I believe that Giuliani has demonstrated that he is the only one more dangerous than Cheney, to the people of the US and the world.
The US position will continue to weaken and eventually the US will slide into insignificance in world affairs, and as US citizens it is our obligation to do whatever we can during that period to stop the US government from starting WWIII. Standing by while Giuliani is elected is tantamount to aiding and abetting mass murder and possibly human extinction.
[quote]kivals October 29th, 2007 4:07 pm -- But that does not make them indistinguishable.[/quote]
I suppose you're right -- at least in the same sense that Godzilla and MechaGodzilla are not indistinguishable. Voting for either, however, seems like an unwarranted endorsement, especially for a socialist.
I guess I'm just not as "pragmatic" as you are. On the other hand, there's sometimes a very fine line between pragmatism and something much worse when it delves into conceptual relativity.
For people still able to work inside the system of political elections, the un-met challenge is to organize ourselves - the left - into a coheret movement.
If the internet - and websites like this one - are gonna be able to help organize the organizers, then that capacity needs to be first set up, either on this site or on a new site (Like BugsBBunny III says in his post to Cindy Sheehan's earlier article The Morning After.)
This site is chaotic for organizing!
Ways to correct our broken system:
1) Effective campaign finance reform. So long as money matters more than policy in winning elections, wealthy individuals/corporations will exert profoundly undemocratic control on our political system.
2) Run-off elections. If we voted in rounds and had options for voters to order their prefference for candidates then the power duopoly would be broken.
3) Elimination of real return on investment. The "hoarder" class must be destroyed, as the root of the threat to real democracy is the perverse set of incentives our socioeconomic system presents them.
(3) is impossible without (1), (2) is only marginally effective without (1), and (1) has been difficult to bring about, to say the least.
Ideas, anyone?
"Bill Clinton reversed Reagan's course, raising taxes on the wealthy, and lowering them for the working and middle classes. This produced the longest sustained economic expansion in American history. Importantly, it also produced budgetary surpluses allowing the government to begin paying down the crippling debt begun under Reagan. In 2000, Clinton's last year, the surplus amounted to $236 billion. The forecast ten year surplus stood at $5.6 trillion. It was the last black ink America would see for decades, perhaps forever."
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1022-26.htm
Mathematically that's about as different as Godzilla and a Quark.
one of about a thousand indistinguishable elements between Dems and Reps.
Arvy,
As much as we like to complain about the current state of affairs, we know that it can get so much worse. And Mr. Giuliani would love to demonstrate that point, if given the opportunity.
You compared two fictional screen monsters. I would use a real-world comparison of Mussolini and Hitler.
By the way, I have been a socialist since I was a freshman in college, but long ago gave up on socialist candidates in the USA. The best we can do here is try to slow down or stop the empire and to fight the development of a police state, and hope human culture evolves in the meantime to make the consumer mindset passe.
Umlaut, I would have agreed with you as recently as 6 months ago. That is, I would have agreed with you until none of the leading 3 democratic candidates came out against continued US presence in Iraq. Why, oh why, for fucks sake why, would neither Obama or Edwards choose to differentiate themselves on this most crucial of all campaign issues?
I'll tell you why: they are assholes. They are assholes of such magnitude and efficiency that people can't see through the constant stream of shit they spew to glimpse the giant asshole spewing it. But if you believe in that old maxim, "shit comes from assholes", then even if the shit blinds you, you infer from the shit that somewhere an asshole is at work.
Umlaut: Dems can suck my balls. Explain to me how it made political or any other kind of sense for neither Edwards or Obama to come out strongly against the occupation and maybe I'll entertain the thought that democrats have souls.
"In 2000, Clinton's last year, the surplus amounted to $236 billion...Mathematically that's about as different as Godzilla and a Quark."
Hi Umlaut,
Before you begin cursing me out again, please take the time to listen.
On the surface, what you are saying makes sense. However, two things:
1. I wonder how much of this surplus was due to "Ending Welfare as we know it." Also, the economy was booming in the 1990s, most likely because of a hyper-inflated tech market, which turned south as it typically does. Much of went on then was smoke and mirrors - if Bush had gotten re-elected, I'm sure he would have taken credit for the dot com economy as well.
2. I have no doubt that Hillary will be less wasteful than Bush and his war-mongering cronies. But how is the way things work at present going to fix anything if all that happens is Hillary wins, then is replaced by some asshole in the GOP - which is exactly the way the system works?
Overall, I still contend that the two party system itself is where the problem is. Please expand your view past what will happen immediately if Hillary wins - this is the same logic that got us screwed with Bill. I assure you that what we will not see from Hillary is a lasting legacy - instead what we will get is "less bad," which is not good enough. Band aids don't matter when you need triage.
When the centrist system within the Democratic Party is thrown out on its ear and replaced with a progressive model a la Kucinich, Gravel, McKinney, Waters, Boxer, Sanders, et. al., that is when you will see something effective emerging from the DP. Until that day comes (and it very possibly may never come, at this rate), even if we win the battle, we're clearly losing the war, as it were. Please don't hate on me (again) for saying this, but have you considered the possibility that in fact, it is the centrist "third way" approach that is both irrational and non-pragmatic? Think about this, please.
"(3) is impossible without (1), (2) is only marginally effective without (1), and (1) has been difficult to bring about, to say the least.
Ideas, anyone?"
Maddisod,
In order to get this, you need (4) - an effective grass-roots movement, because any politician that tries to do what you're suggesting at present will be thrown out on their ear without it.
"But if the Democrats have an abusive relationship with their supporters, their supporters are complicit in that abuse. Democrats overwhelmingly support troop withdrawal from Iraq yet back candidates who favour keeping troops in the region indefinitely. The gay community continues to give the main candidates huge amounts of money even though all of them oppose gay marriage. They seem to like it this way. For even though Republican candidates have lavished far more attention on core supporters, it is Democratic voters who are far more satisfied with their candidates."
True. So, what's the answer?
Seems like an untenable situation. A conundrum for which there may not be an answer or a way out. An Orwellian nightmare...unless we address the cognitive dissonance we each display in our personal lives. For every action we take, every word we utter, every thought we have that goes against our individual values, we disassociate ourselves from what is right and weaken ourselves and the common good.
Some here on CD say that the Democrats are the only alternative, that we must face the reality that they are the only game in town. Well, on the face of it, they're right - they are the only game in town. Neither the Republicans nor a third party are going to vote for a centrist or left-leaning justice of the Supreme Court (and it looks like there might be 2 opportunities for that soon). The Repubs are so out there that they are actively trying to demolish this form of government. The third parties are non-existent and will not win this time around. So, who is left?
Once again, we will have to face the fact that we either vote for the Dems, or get worse. But, is this a real choice? Is this really "reality?" Yes, some things may very well get worse if we vote our consciences. But then, nothing is guaranteed. Is voting Dem a guarantee that we won't spend another 4 years in Iraq and move on to Iran? Is voting Dem a guarantee that corporate fascism won't continue to spread its toxin? Of course not!
So, why do progressives keep lowering the bar? Cognitive dissonance. This can only be stopped when we stop as individuals. It ends when YOU say it ends. When YOU stop paying war tax, when YOU stop buying sweat-shop items at rock-bottom prices, when YOU stop living in fear of the bogeyman the system tells you is under your bed. The second YOU START living your values and conscience is the second this world starts to change.
That's it. That's all it's ever been. It's that easy.
"Once again, we will have to face the fact that we either vote for the Dems, or get worse. But, is this a real choice? Is this really "reality?""
Bingo. Centrist supporters, you are becoming sheeple before our very eyes. Please wake up, and wake up soon.
No substantive news in the markets....a bad sign..... they must be coming apart at the seams......even more.
Kucinich or nothing ....... tired of playing games.
The argument that we can punish and reform the dims by boycotting them and causing their party to implode presumes they have any loyalty to their party or to any ideology whatsoever.
Not only do they not have any loyalty to to any ideology, they have no loyalty to any constituency EXCEPT FOR FINANCIAL BACKERS.
I am convinced most of them are far more concerned about their futures as lobbyists and sucking honoraria as speakers than their current positions in the congress.
The point of view assumed is that America still has a "two party" system when, in fact, we have one main party split into two divisions, both with the same overall goals, all the money, and all the control. Said sub-divisions play good cop-bad cop on "cultural" issues in order to distract us from the fascist direction they're "leading" the "homeland" towards while emptying our Treasury and shredding our Constitution.
Progressives can sharpen all the teeth they want, it won't matter - our "representatives" simply could care less about We The People.
RichM,
"I tell you, those Night Shift guys are nicer!! They smile at me more, I swear it!"
This is the mentality we are faced with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Block
LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL!
That is where govt and social change is really going to occur. Not in the halls of Congress.. We can't rely upon them anymore to make anything real happen.
Sure.. we need to keep an eye on them... but get out there and work in your local community. Start a neighborhood garden program (we need more farmers with the coming Peak Oil crisis)
work with your small business association.. local community. That is where change is going to happen.. small and local.
Wash is too corrupt and bought and paid for.
Quit buying stuff from Corporate America too...
So we are all back to go----I for one, plan to vote my conscience and let the chips fall where they may---this is an easy decision in a sense, since I am convinced that whatever the "will of the people" actually turns out to be, another election will be rigged. Surely most of you are well informed enough by considerable research that proves without any doubt that neither of the last two presidential elections were legitimate, AND there were several state races that were stolen as well. Even 2006 was in question but apparently they didn't anticipate a high enough percentage to flip enough votes and Dems won anyway. So after having my heart broken and my outrage taken to the level of a scream, I'm gonna vote for what feels like a real choice and worry less about the winner. Even when we "win", we lose, so you might as well feel good about your conscience in the process. We can't be ever ruled by the fear of what will happen if the boogey man gets in---he's been in, and is in right now. What if Martin Luther King hadn't had a dream and stuck to it? Not that African AMericans aren't still having to re-fight those battles again and again, but still. We need to be able to dream and PLAN for a truly better country and world, or we might as well all go to sleep with the rest of the silent masses who are either too tired from working their three jobs to care much, or have lost all faith that they can make any difference so why bother. Do you blame them? When's the last time we can demonstrate it paid to get involved???? That it made their life truly better? I was a family dairy farmer when Clinton asked for my vote. He got it and then there was NAFTA and no help for family farms. My Congressman, Ron Kind, D WI has voted so consistently with the Repbubs that I swear he's a trojan horse. Labels mean nothing folks. It's principles and integrity we need!
It seems to me that everyone who supports Dennis Kucinich could contact his campaign and urge him to stop spending money running around which is doing essentially nothing for him, and put all his money into a 1/2 hour TV ad presentation of what he wants to accomplish. It did work for Ross Perot. He actually got 20% of the vote as an independent, AFTER quitting the race (he came back in, but he really damaged his campaign by petulantly quitting).
And everyone who supports Dennis could become funding volunteers, working the crowds, spreading the word to contribute. If he doesn't do something bold and different, he's going down. Unlike some of you, I don't think he's doing this to be a party shill. It's too much work.
Well, I just had a post deleted. I just suggested we all encourage Dennis Kucinich to save his money for TV ads the way Ross Perot did. And put our energy into supporting that venture.
Twice I tried to talk about the Kucinich campaign and was deleted.
I know people have a hard time taking me seriously because I scribble alot of simple crap on this website to give people the notion that I know nothing about politics (it predominantly is to draw out the trolls). Did any of you see my post yesterday (I know it seemed like lala land)? That is the crux of my platform to run for political office as a Progressive Independent (PI). I will be forthcoming with more information about myself soon. What all of you are calling for is someone with the same vision as you to lead you out of this quagmire into which the Repubs and Dems have dumped us. If you look at all of your posts on this thread and condense them, that is part of my vision. I am considering running for office in 2012 (I need to get more political experience and my name out there first). Just to give you a brief morsel of information about me, I am a doctoral candidate in Political Science, teach at a major university, and am 33 years old.