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TechnoratiAs I sit sipping my morning cup of coffee and reflect on the anti-war protests sponsored by the Oct27 coalition (where I saw some good collaboration between UFPJ and ANSWER -- at least in San Francisco -- yea!), I have a few thoughts.
Yesterday, tens of thousands of activists from around Northern California, Northern Nevada and some from Southern Oregon attended the rally in my new hometown, San Francisco. Despite weather in the Eastern part of the country, I hear that the rallies all over the rest of the country were extremely well attended and the energy was high.
The throngs of humanity in San Francisco stretched out between the Civic Center to Dolores Park in a line that was over two miles long and it took over an hour for the last marcher to reach the endpoint. However, what does this all mean?
We have marched. We have done sit-ins in Congress Reps offices all over the country. We have written letters, emails and sent faxes. Some of us have camped in ditches in Central Texas for weeks at a time. CODEPINK is doing a marvelous job of keeping the pressure on in DC. We have had countless numbers of rallies, teach-ins and candlelight vigils, but the occupation is continuing and people are still dying and are forced from their homes by the ongoing and unremitting violence.
In November of 2006, the peace movement scored a major coup but we later discovered that the Democrats had only used our vibrant, angry and deeply committed movement to regain both Houses of Congress. Some of us erroneously thought that we could relax a little and allow the 110th Congress to take some of the slack from us hard-working activists to end the war and hold BushCo accountable. After all, that's what we pay them for, isn't it? I, and my organization, was roundly criticized by many people for going to Congress in January to demand that the Dems do the job we elected them to do. "Give them a chance." "Shut the f**k up." These and harsher epithets were hurled at us. I understand, because we wanted to relax, too. In November, we were as shocked as everyone else was, though, when Nancy and Harry (Bush Enablers Number One and Two) took impeachment "off the table." We knew there would be no rest for the weary with this Congress, and, unfortunately, I think we have been vindicated...very regrettably for democracy around the world.
Where do we go from here?
George has asked Congress for 45 billion (to add to the 200 billion Congress already handed him) more Chinese lent dollars for 2008 to sustain his bloody occupations and Congress will unconditionally yield to his request because they are puppets of the Supreme Puppet. Coincidentally, this will keep the bloody mess going until the '08 elections where the Dems can point their blood-stained fingers at the Repugs not even realizing that we are not buying that load of crap anymore. Both parties are culpable; both parties are supporting war crimes; both parties must be held accountable. We need to run Peace Candidates against the Bush Enablers and we need to support the Peace Candidates we already have like Dennis Kucinich that are floundering on the decks of the USS Main Stream Media.
The peace movement must also be held accountable. We wrangle for a limited amount of funds and guard our "listservs" jealously and fiercely. It is way past time that the peace movement share resources, gifts and talents to force the established elite in DC to do our will. We are the moral majority in this country; we are in the right; we need to work together to funnel and focus our energies. So many times we are on parallel paths going the same direction but rarely walking together towards our common goals. We can be sure that the Corporatocracy is walking lock-step toward their goal of US global hegemony which is neither peaceful nor benevolent.
In March of '08 we will be mourning the 5th anniversary of a "war" that was going to take six months (Donald Rumsfeld), 50 billion dollars (Paul Wolfowitz) and zero American lives (George Bush). Obviously, this is unacceptable. The Camp Casey Peace Institute is calling for a Peace Summit in San Francisco on the weekend of Martin Luther King, Jr's birthday to bring the leaders of the movement together so we can find ways to support each other to our common goals of peace, sustainability and accountability and to plan for relevant and effective actions all around the 5th anniversary.
With US aircraft carrier groups in the Persian Gulf and Turkish forces poised on the border of Kurdistan, if there ever was a time to put differences aside and celebrate similarities, as BushCo in tandem with Congress, Inc has brought our world to the brink of World War III, it is now.
64 Comments so far
Show Allgabi - In the empire all votes are wasted - only action takes home the prize.
I really didn't even mention voting for a third party necessarily - but listening to independent and third party ideas and giving their view a platform in any debate is an important part of democracy - (If there was one in this country)
You might take the example of Jesse Ventura in MN. I watched the gubernatorial debates in MN just prior to the election and Jesse went from 17% to 34% overnight when people had a chance to see someone speak from his soul rather than from a prepared script of sound bites. While people may not have agreed with his entire platform - voters understood the difference between his genuine (albeit a bit rough) comments and those of two "handled" career politicians. The night the news commentator, white faced and shaking announced that Jesse Ventura had won was one of the greatest moments in MN political history. Not for the fact that Jesse was any great savior but because for one time in one state - democracy actually prevailed. That is how the system could work if it wasn't rigged. The reason it did is because the media took Jesse as a joke and the people of MN turned it on both the Republicans and Democrats to show them what government by the people really meant.
This is why election reforms are so hated by both parties and why inclusion of third party ideas and instant runoff voting is so important. If voting is to mean anything all ideas need to be brought to the table not just those of the empire's chosen few (or two)
Beyondempire .. your personal bias is showing ... "balanced" ?? His words sound subjective to me ..
Wasting third party votes to continue the pubs in office ... sounds "unbalanced" to me!!
Jim, great post! ... bush is the problem and no matter how many march or protest, this "decider" could care less! ... He will ignore and he will "veto" til the last day of his administration ... but we must not stop the marches ... we must continue to show America and the world that many many Americans can't stand that man... and that we want an end to war! The visual and spoken media over the pond has better coverage of our marches then the "bought/ colluding" media of the U.S.
Cindy, You Ask Where do We Go From Here?
I think after all our opinions here we might be able to come together the most on just agreeing we all disagree.
If most 3rd parties and individuals could think of coalitions more instead of "our idea is the way so don't wast my time any longer", all our third parties might get more popular..
We got to think of ways to come together .. We will Always demonstrate but let us realize that 5 10 50 million in the street will not change the deciders mind so all that effort will mean "gee We really tried!" it is like I keep getting political messages "Tell Bush he can't censor Science! " and all that kind of outrage!.... OK Why didn't we think of that Before?
We forgot to tell Bush!
Now is the time to try out new ideas and the more creative with love instead of hate and Fear behind it, the better we will be.
Maybe we should use some cool PROPAGANDA like "Impeach the Parasites for the Good of Life and Mother Earth!"
But since my political instincts tell me that bush is bluffing about bombing Iran although he made sure the world believes it is on the table, he is vulnerable now to a peaceful way out of the black Hole he has lowered us into.
His legacy now is clear, either he makes a miraculous turnaround from the War Prez to the Peace Prez, or history will keep the Endless War Maker on him..
Does he care? I don't think anybody knows but Bush.
Love, Jim
jim.glover@verizon.net
Restive, Thank you for joining the discussion. Your thoughtfully crafted opinions always portray an easy and balanced tone.
In many ways Bill Clinton represented the perfectly crafted corporate Democrat. While he was able to whistle a little tune to keep us distracted with a populist vision, he pushed privitazation, NAFTA, the beginnings of "homeland security", war, and many other elements of the corporatist agenda. His indescretions made him seem "human" to average Americans and a monster to the religious right, it all worked to reinforce his legend as a Democratic hero. Nothing could be further from the truth. Progressives have him to thank for basically gutting any progressive flames that may have been simmering beneath the surface in the party. If there was a hero in the party at that time It was probably Paul Wellstone and many would say even he fell off some from his progressive base to compromise. But he was someone with a passion to bring progressive reform to politics.
The primary system in place today is exactly what is enabling the party's centrists and right wing to morph into Republicrats. The party conventions used to be the place where ideas from all sides of the party came together to form the party platform and the nominee was at least aware and obliged to pay lip service to the more progressive idealists among us.
Primaries - brought into existence partly by the chaos at the national convention in Chicago in '68 resulted in any meaningful participation of "fringe" ideas being surgically removed from discussion long before the convention which has now become merely a splendid crowning of the corporately selected nominee.
Many good ideas and wise advice could be culled from third party and so-called unelectable candidates but neither party wants to hear any of it and MSM doesn't have the time between Brittany crotch sightings and the latest fake news item to provide a platform for any real political discussion. If no discussion takes place at the conventions, then where will people be exposed to these ideas.
I was literally banned from posting on a website supposedly created for progressive Democrats because I suggested the party should listen to third party candidates, work to make it easier for third parties to be included in debates and push for instant run-off voting. I was labeled a "green".
"but all of us do not see Clinton as a monster or bush enabler"
If he wasn't a bush enabler, then what was "ending welfare as we know it," bombing Iraq, and supporting NAFTA? If you're going to make a strategic decision to compromise, I still disagree - but at least you'll know who you are voting for. All due respect, it doesn't sound like you do.
"Many of you seem to think that America is going to be run your way or else"
Not "or else," that's your words...but are you honestly saying that we don't have a right to a collective voice?
TruthTeller ... you are only telling us YOUR truth ... not the "truth" for all ! Many here seem to forget that ....Many also forget that the "moral majority" ... (shades of jerry ugh falwell here) ... is made up of many many who desire peace/ work for peace ... and have marched in many marches for peace ... Many even began with anti Viet Nam marches ... but all of us do not see Clinton as a monster or bush enabler ...Nor do we talk about wasting our votes by giving them to pubs by voting for "third party people" who have no experience or have nothing to offer ... like nader.... look up his history ... what did he ever do for the woman's movement?? The Civil rights movement?? The anti Viet Nam movement?? .. Zero.. He cared less! ... I was there, I remember how only a smattering of women from Cal-Pirg/ Zero Population Growth and other "green" groups marched in some of the women's liberation marches .... None of the men ever did!! They are a one trick pony and "green" is all they know! bush has screwed up this country enough..
My vote will be for Clinton or Edwards .. Yes, it would be grrreat if Dennis K. got the nod ... but we know it won't happen.
Many of you seem to think that America is going to be run your way or else ! And your solution ... vote third party or not at all .... go right ahead ... do what you want to "screw the vote" ... you'll be right there beside your idiot friend george bush ....
BugsBBunny III-
You are right. It's impossible to organize ourselves for political action from this website. It's good for opinions but total chaos for organizing.
Some CDers talked a while back talked about asking CD editors to set up an open page where organizing would be easier.
I wrote down a few names of the people who were talking about it, but nothing seemed to come of it. Now I've lost the names. I think at least 3 of them were
outside beltway or dc beltway?
Nelson Terry
SiouxRose
If any of these people are reading this, let us know what happend with the CD editors.
People, Cindy Sheehan in her post gave you a sentence worth reading and thinking about. She said : " We are the moral majority in this country; we are in the right; we need to work together to funnel and focus our energies. So many times we are on parallel paths going the same direction but rarely walking together towards our common goals. We can be sure that the Corporatocracy is walking lock-step toward their goal of US global hegemony which is neither peaceful nor benevolent."
Yes, we are the majority longing for peace, universal health care and a few other important things that can be done in the climate of peace and disarmament. We are the moral majority. If we accept this simple truth and raise the banner for peace, we can all act under a winning umbrella. Call it People's Peace Movement, or People's Peace Party (PPP), does not matter which, and start electing our peace candidates at all levels: Local,State, National, then we can overwhelm the outdated, corrupt rebublicratic machine. Let us move with this spirit to the Peace Summit in St. Francisco called by the Camp Casey Peace Institute for the weekend of Martin Luther King's Jr. birthday.
All of us have got to understand that elections at the national level are not played on a level playing field. These are not real elections people. By the time the MSM has labeled all candidates who do not follow the empire's agenda crazy, wierd or unelectable; and the fraudulent debates have excluded candidates without the cash or poll numbers necessary to qualify; and the individual state's ballot access laws have frustrated third parties and independents; there will emerge only two candidates one from each of the empire's sanctioned parties and both sharing imperialistic and corporatist (fascist) agendas. The fact that one party may lean ever so slightly toward rhetorical domestic reforms that seem to favor "We the plebicites" but always seem to become watered down and dysfuntional in practice presents only a sliver of a difference. What we are witnessing at this time in our history is the end of any functional democracy. Our elections have become auctions and the winner will be the highest bidder. "We the people" have not been invited to attend.
For those of you who still wish to call yourselves Democrats, you might be happy to learn that Hillary has won the 2008 election. She did so by aligning herself with the interests of big oil, the military industrial complex, big banking and AIPAC. Her pro-war stance will continue and we will see military action in Iran.
For those of us who support peace, we need to recognize that we can no longer support the military with our labor, our money or even our rhetoric. I have the utmost respect for those within the military who have spoken out against this war and the upcoming war in Iran. Unfortunately, many of our military leaders continue to follow the instructions of their civilian "puppetmasters". But it will take more than talk to change things. Our military needs to heed the words of Schmedly Butler and understand the real reasons behind our wars. His book is back in print and "War is A Racket" was never a more accurate description of what our country is involved in today. We fight our wars not for freedom, not for democracy, apple pie, or our way of life (although a literal interpretation of "our way of life" might indeed include an uninterrupted source of fossil fuels and natural resources looted from indigenous peoples throughout the world to support our ever more unsustainable lifestyle). We fight our wars for the right of huge corporations to extract unreasonable profits from those who may wish to set up a toll both on the highways of exploitation.
Our criminal government is up to their necks in fascist imperialism with full steam ahead and no one to check the throttle.
We really need to become the kind of activists that pushed the labor movement forward. We've got to refuse to do the work of the corporate criminals who build arms, destroy enviroments, violate human rights and exploit other populations; and we've got to support the people who give up
their jobs in these areas by helping each other to find decent employment in areas that support the antithesis of these corporate giants.
In order to take control of our government back, we need to destroy the power of corporations to hide behind the illegitimate idea of "corporate personhood" and eliminate any involvement of corporations in campaign financing or political lobbying. Any involvement of corporations in the political process should be grounds for the corporate "death penalty"
Sorry for the screed but we are in serious trouble as a nation and change from within the government is really no longer an option or a plausible reality. As soon as we all realize this the better. Revolution is at hand. But we've got to give it support from the base and we've got to do it without violence.
I like the idea of a boycott. People should educate themselves about who profits (and who suffers) from the products we consume. I like the idea of demonstrations. However, these shouldn't be one-off occasions but should take place weekly. Hopefully the number of demonstrators would increase week to week. The march in Chicago had an estimated attendance of 5,000. If we can get those numbers up to 50,000 - 100,000 on a weekly basis then the powers that be, particularly the corporate media, might take some notice. I like the idea of voting for the most progressive candidates available, Cindy Sheehan and Dennis Kucinich being two great examples. My point is that there needs to be a strategy that utilizes ALL of these approaches, as well as others. I all too often read comments that this strategy or that strategy is a waste of time. In isolation, yes that is probably so. If we are to be the agents of the change we want to see we must integrate all the strategies and avenues available to us whether it be boycotts, protests, or the ballot box (quaint as that last term now seems). We must also reach out to the timid, the misguided, and the apathetic to make them realize the power that we collectively have. We must do all these things and more - or else. I don't even want to think about or else what.
Kucinich/Nader in 2008...would go on my-bumper!
Why should we be shocked by the Dems' failure to oppose the Bush administration after the 2006 elections? How many of them opposed the Patriot Act, the two war resolutions, or the Military Commissions Act? They try to play the middle ground between being perceived as tough on threats to national security and liberal enough to care. It's all talk, except for a few congresspersons such as Dennis Kucininch and Barbara Lee.
"Unity '08 ticket is Kucinich/Paul or Paul/Kucinich… doesn't matter..."
Whenever, I hear this I realize that there is tremendous confusion going on! sure, thay are both antiwar, but otherwise, they are on opposite ends of the ideological spectrum.
At the suggestion of people in an earlier thread I looked up Paul's website. His big issues very vaguely started, include opposing the US ME war, getting tough on immigration, pro gun, anti-abortion, private property rights (i.e. anti environmental regulation), anti-goverrnment spending - including a vague plan to save social security by cutting spending, and pro-home schooling.
Nothing on global warming and other environmental threats
Nothing on the deciining wages wealth and power concentration at the top, and destruction of organized labor
Nothing on the current US healthcare system
Nothing on the decay of quality and the profound race and class inequalities in public schools
In other words, he remains a member of the "libertarian" frings, and hardly someone that Kucinich should have anything to do with.
Self-destruction seems to be the foolish consistency of the American government and thus the pain and sorrow of its people
what's next for the antiwar movement? take the poll on the october 27th website:
http://www.oct27.org/what-next
thus far "mass civil disobedience in one or more large cities" is the highest vote-getter.
perhaps cindy's peace summit could be organized in concert with a mass action, one that takes risks and demonstrates creativity, in a large city.
I was hoping the 'die in' in SF would be more aggressive. Look, 30,000 people can shut down the city--but didn't. People need to become more aggressive. Laying down in the street for a minute and politely getting up and moving on is fun, but it isn't as serious as the situation warrants.
If you advertised a serious protest, perhaps no one would come. We're all terrified. We need something like Blackwater patrolling the streets, telling us to stay indoors. Then we'll have an excuse to stay inside and watch Bill O'Reilly.
Where's the anger? We're responsible for the deaths of over a million Iraqi citizens. We're all drenched in blood and it was all for oil.
We're feeling depressed, oppressed, and meanwhile reassured by the MSM that everything is as it should be. Relax. Enjoy the endgame of the empire. Watch sports. Enjoy a latte.
We need to storm a TV station and demand access to tell OUR STORY. We need a revolution. But oh dear, HR 1955 just passed... soon it is prison for saying, or thinking, such thoughts: general $trike, overthrow Bush, Cheney, prison for life for US war criminals...
Killing is a profitable business and the ante has been upped. Iran is next...
From the article below: "(The act) literally allows the government to define any and all crimes including thought crime as violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism."
http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=4682
Take away from the politicians what they value most...money and votes.
1. Don't donate to anyone who does not represent you.
2. Don't vote for anyone who does not support your beliefs.
3. Boycott businesses that donate to candidates who will not commit to stopping the war now.
If we all will do that, they will get the message.
I'm sorry Cindy. So long as Die Bold and other fraudulent electronic voting machines are used, not you and not anybody from the peace movement will be given a chance to be elected. How many times do I have to repeat this? IS ANYBODY LISTENING?
Truthteller...Amen and Amen!
gabi...Third Party suggestions are not at all ludicrous.
Third Parties have contributed greatly to Democracy over the years. They arise when the "two" major parties are not dealing with, or else ignoring, important issues.
If the Republicans hadn't come along the Democrats and Whigs would have gone on evading the issue of slavery.
If the Populists hadn't come along the Democrats and Republicans would have gone on evading the plight of the farmers.
If the Socialists and Progressives hadn't come along the Democrats and Republicans would have gone on ignoring the rights of labor.
We are seeing the increasing agitation for a third party (most likely the Greens) because the "two" major parties today are not only evading the important issues (war and peace, imperialism, militarism, constitutional democracy, the environment) they are actively colluding on the wrong side of virtually every issue!
There are paradigm shifting moments in American politics. We could be in such a moment now, if we recognize that such moments preclude Business as Usual.
That is why I am backing Cindy Sheehan for Congress and will NOT, repeat will NOT, vote for Hillary Clinton! Ever! For anything!
Look, I've given money to both Dennis and Cindy. Do I really expect either of them to win. Deep down, in my political activist gut, no. I don't say that with anything but a sense of dread. I can tell you though that I intend to stick with them to the end.
What I hope we accomplish is this. I hope Cindy puts a real scare in Speaker Pelosi. I want to see Nancy's margin drop down to the "competitive seat" category (under 55% of the votes cast). Both her and Maj. Leader Hoyer won with 81% in '06. I want to see Dennis stay in this to the end of the primaries, talking about what's really important, and forcing the other candidates to address what's on the minds of millions of Americans that's not being talked about.
Then after a totally unacceptable Democratic nominee is chosen, I will vote for the Green Party candidate in the General election. I don't care if the Democrats lose the general election next year, if winning would mean a continuation of the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton duopoly. That cycle MUST be broken if "We The People" are to ever have a chance of regaining (maybe just finally gaining?) control of our government. Sometimes you have to tear things down and rebuild them to get the desired result. The Democratic Party is broken, courtesy of the corporate DLC. The Neo-Cons showed the way 40 years ago when they tore down the GOP and rebuilt it in their image. We must do the same thing with the Democratic Party - force a total turnover to people we can work with. It has to come from the bottom up, from us. I'm sick of being told to do the "practical", "sensible", and "realistic" thing. Every time I have done that politically in my adult life I have lived to regret it. From here on in I vote my conscience EVERY time. If we all did that, what a difference it would make!
Cindy,
Please talk to Dennis, and PLEAD with him to never endorse Hillary.
Thanks.
Third party suggestions are ludicrous ... I have always supported you Cindy ...but when it comes to a presidential election there is no way in America that a third party vote will ... at this currant time ... count for anyone but a pub and you know that!!
Who will you blame when all those wasted votes are counted ... if a pub gets in again ?
The Green party is a one trick pony ... Dennis K is a wonderful guy, but hasn't got the numbers ... and you/we know it!!
Let's tell it like it is ....
Hey Cindy,
Who are some of the speakers lined up to give a presentation at the Summit? And where in San Francisco will it be held?
Best regards,
Claudius
jerry said:
"4. The Green Parties barely exist, strife with internal fighting, deferring to the Democrats when
a "progressive" is in office."
Don't we wish we had a democratic party with "internal fighting", meaning thoroughly debating issues and coming to a decision by consensus of the people instead of having representatives who bow to Repugs and to their oligarch masters?
"if deferring to the Democrats" means funding an inquest into the stolen Ohio election, then that could be the kind of deferring we need. In fact, the Greens are fairly annoyed about being sabotaged by the Democrats at every turn. Still, the Green Party is the largest and fastest growing third party. It's also international and interconnected like the world's ecosystems.
Progressives need look no further than the Green Party. By the time you start a new third party, 2008 will be long gone. You can always vote for any candidate. Being a Green does not force you to vote for all their candidates, but remember that the Green Party will become a strong political presence if progressive join it en masse.
"Power(money) corrupts and absolute power(a lot of money) corrupts absolutely".
When power makes one rich, elite and conservative, how does one continue to represent the people instead of his new class constituency?
One has to make a lot of compromises to get up there and glom power. If one does not, he or she will not get any MSM attention and will be relegated to the fringe, as Chomsky, our most important intellectual can attest.
I know Cindy won't sell out or be intimidated, but many pols obviously do. Mike Gravel's National Initiative for Democracy proposes bypassing politicians by the referendum. This is something we can start right away and I hope Cindy and other public figures will take up the issue.
Hank Fur: But if we stop buying commercial products from those destructive entities who are sucking dry this country and the rest of the world, they will bend more to our wishes.
Boycott is part of a multi-pronged approach that lends variety and flexibility to the task to end the occupation of Washington and Iraq too.
RichM__ I believe you are right in that Hillary will probably get the nomination. After all, she has the money, the MSM pushing her, and the political connections. Seems like it is hers to lose, otherwise she is it. Maybe it will not be as bad as we think, however, as look what GWB did after election, just the opposite of everything he promised. Hillary no doubt feels she has to be a war hawk to get elected, as a woman soft on defense would not have much of a chance. It is possible she is the only opportunity we have to get the Repugs out of control, so maybe we need to grit our teeth and hope for a switch in policy after she gets in.
"THE WORLD CAN'T WAIT" for the Democrats to stop the war, because they never will. The democrats are a pro-war party.
Last Summer, Against all odds, Joe Lieberman lost his primary in Ct.
Anything is possibe, I support Cindy 100%.
I think if Dennis loses in the primaries, he should stay in as an Independent. If he supports Hillary...ai yi yi!
I am totally non-partisan, if I see someone I like, I don't look at their party, but I look at their positions.
Dennis is a wholly progressive, pro-peace person. I know that for a fact.
Even though he is a Democrat, if he wins the nomination, I will support him, unless I see a better candidate out there...like Cynthia McKinney.
I didn't endorse Dennis, I just said that progressives should support him.
Love
Cindy
celebrity, instead of concentrating on me or who my twin might be, you should concentrate on the facts I'm referring to.
Kucinich's record is one of supporting whoever the leaders of the Democratic Party chooses to be the nominee. He did so in 2000 and again in 2004. In 2008 he'll support Hillary, Bush in drag. If he wishes to make a real difference, he must resign TODAY and run as a Third Party candidate.
If you think anyone, let alone Kucinich, will take the nomination away from Hillary, I have a few sculptures on Mount Rushmore to sell you.
Cindy, understood, thanks.
Hank Fur 7:42 pm:
"Live without do-dads, our kids don't need more plastic junk, stupid electronic do-dads, etc. The heck with a new car (very wasteful,anyway), drive your old one til it croaks, use the bus, bike more, this month (or longer) practice radical frugalism, it'll feel good. Let's flush em out of our systems."
I believe this is the way. Thoreau was right, how now can we morally justify any kind of contribution we make to the occupation by our activities in the american post industrial corporate oligarchical system? Who is this that feels they have such a vested interest that they can't give up just a little of what they have, live a little bit more in harmony with the planet earth.
Either choose this first, or have no other options or little choice later.
I'm a conscientious objector in all that I manage to do, in the way I think, how I behave, and how I live in this society. I'm not afraid of the consequences for myself. I feel I have no other choice.
Friend Claudius: good point. It would be great if you folks down there could actually challenge the right-wing media on their own turf, as Air America is trying to do on some scale in the far less expensive field -- compared to a national television network -- of talk radio. But, you folks (I'm sorry to divide into "you" and "me," but I can't contribute financially to Dennis from up here, so I feel a sense of relative powerlessness relative to "you") must make the best use of what you have. And Amy Goodman is one of the most powerful tools readily available to you. Call your local cable provider and urge it to carry her daily show. (You probably already have!)
Since the edit system is not working, I will rewrite my response to NovaScotian.
I have seen DemocracyNow and Amy Goodman's interviews are terrific. But what I am referring to is a 24 hour news program that directly competes with the Crappy News Network (CNN), so that the larger viewing public can see the truth.
Claudius, we already have our own network. We even get Amy Goodman up here in Nova Scotia, on campus radio in audio, and online in video.
www.democracynow.org
How much does it cost to get an FCC license? What if we created our own news network? Our news network would not be funded or controlled by any corporation. We simply would tell viewers the truth.
Wake up: Look more closely at Ron Paul's record. He may be pro-constitution and anti-war, but much more is there for the research. I don't think Kucinich would want him as V.P,
Hank Fur: I think you're on to something. That's about the only thing we have left, our spending--but think of it, that's the foundation of the Corptocracy that Cindy talks about--and I don't know why we don't use it. Because it's actually the most powerful "bomb" we have. We could bomb Wall street. If someone could just organize or coordinate this--there's no limit to what we could do. It's even peaceful--it would just kill BushCo because he couldn't arrest people for not-shopping and sent them to Gitmo.
I'm all for it.
Unity '08 ticket is Kucinich/Paul or Paul/Kucinich... doesn't matter, and Cindy Sheehan replaces Nancy Pelosi.
It seems fairly clear that whatever the merits of the new found cooperation between UFPJ and Answer, sixties style street demonstrations are recognized as having almost no effect. The almost exclusive focus of the "peace movement" on this one tactic has a lot to do with why it is perceived as a paper tiger, as was pointed out in a recent column by Jeff Cohen.
So, what should we be doing? Cindy's presence here points us in the right direction. We need to get her elected and despite the canard circulated by the corporate media that this is merely a "symbolic" run, this is doable.
But it will require a great deal of hard work, smarts, organization and sufficient funds.
The organizing, strategizing and serious fundraising needs to start happening NOW. That means an on-the-ground campaign staff in SF who are putting the infrastructure together for an army of volunteers to canvass block to block, identifying voters in preparation for the get out the vote effort on election day.
Accomplishing this means making contact with the Green Party in SF who already laid the ground for Sheehan's run during the Gonzalez mayoral campaign which almost defeated Pelosi's handpicked candidate.
If this same coalition can be marshalled behind Sheehan, and there's no good reason why it can't, then we will have chalked a tangible, significant victory in November which will demonstrate, better than millions of bodies in the streets, that we mean business.
I hope Cindy and her team are going on this.
Cindy asks where do we go from here. Then she hits the nail on the head. WE? Whose the we in the WE?
What is needed is a place where everyone can go on the net to find out what is happening, where they can go to help out and who is planning something in the future and when and where.
Ahem...list serves? Is that like the old mailing lists we had in the sixties? Lord forgive me for past sins... lol. Times have changed but guarding ye olde mailing list has not.
C'mon people... get together. We need to use this internet more effectively and boy would it have been of help back in the sixties.
Is there a site where everyone can put up an announcement about a coming protest so that people can plan to attend... find out where to help out ...coordinate as one?
We made do in the sixties and now when we have the net ...we don't make use of it as a COORDINATING tool.
C'mon people... get together. Maybe what we need is a bulletin board on the net. A peace web ...a peace ring... someplace where as Cindy says... we get it together and everyone helps everyone organize to stand as one.
List serves? Um...that reminds me...ahem... making use of mailing lists... um...forgive me Lord for past sins... and stuffing envelopes and ... geeze the net makes all that so much more easier.
We need the mother of all links... a place where everybody can announce some action in their town... you'd be surprised at how many people don't know about them (hardly a surprise given the lack of media coverage after the fact much less a march or protest being announced ahead of time). Link up!
That is what is needed. Link up. Together.
Hillary's support does not not originate from the people, it comes from her donors, those who are grateful for her efforts to bend the world to their liking. I can't believe anyone still wonders.
Why should we be having the same conversation over and over again? The ordinary American voter has very little power in the present day electoral process. We all know this, right? So why are we spending so much time blabbing about elections?
The most telling comment from the Bush administration:
A Bush official told reporter Ron Suskind, "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
We can get their attention by withholding our hard earned money. That'll make them perk up and listen. Maybe we could be the ones creating reality while they study us, try and please us. Live without do-dads, our kids don't need more plastic junk, stupid electronic do-dads, etc. The heck with a new car (very wasteful,anyway), drive your old one til it croaks, use the bus, bike more, this month (or longer) practice radical frugalism, it'll feel good. Let's flush em out of our systems. If you despise the Times, cancel your subscription and tell them why, be creative and definitely PASS IT ON. Send back your catalogs.
If we were their lovable children and we all got down on the ground and threw a big tantrum, they might be swayed. But they don't love us. They don't give a hoot about ordinary human life.
Stop and think about what most of "our" congressmen/women agreed to do to millions of innocent Iraqis, just to appease and please their big money donors.
NO-SHOP WINTER HOLIDAY, 2007.
WHO WANTS TO HELP GET THIS MOVING?
Don't elect politicians - start movements, then elect politicians when it makes sense to do so. (I think Cindy's run is an example of "when it makes sense" - given that the odds of Nancy Pelosi losing to a Republican are effectively 0, there is absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain.) I do think this emphasis on politicians is more like giving your power away than figuring out what we need to do. Face it, progressives are all but not represented by either party; and furthermore, unless we have a movement behind a politician, the chances of their commitments to progressive ideals going out the window when they get into office are pretty high, *especially* if they're a democrat. There are exceptions to this - but those cases are anything but typical.
Ps:
Many of you will find the article on the following link of interest, as it reveals more about the mistakes our abominable leaders made, prior to their gross Iraq Debacle:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7064475.stm
tetti_tatti:
Are you and COMarc twins? All the closed-minded hate against the Democrats without opening your mind to things like individuals, voting records, or crafted Progressive legislation written?
Or maybe, Tetti, someone who looks like Kucinich teased you for bed-wetting when you were a senior? That much misdirected anger calls for a call to Dr. Phil or another cookie.
RichM wonders correctly. Who is supporting Billary - not any Democrat or anybody I know of, both within and without local political circles?
Her support seems to be coming from the same combination of corporations and oligarchical elite that bought and paid for the BushDick administration.
These are also the people that manipulated the Dem. primary process in 2004 to get Kerry nominated instead of candidates more acceptable to mainstream Dems and Progressives.
I could be wrong but I will hold to this view until proved wrong.
Parallax,
"I understand that Bill Cosby had some good things to say about Dennis Kucinich on Larry King Live the other day - and Dennis's picture was flashed on the screen for just a second or so before they "had to go to a commercial"
I don't often watch Larry King but watched a bit because Bill Cosby was on -- someone must have screamed in Larry's earpiece "Don't say KUCINICH, break now!!!!!" because Larry jumped at warp speed.
Progressives seem blind to their real power. We have little control of the electoral process, such as it is, especially at the national level.
Rather than in the voting booth, our collective power is in our pocketbooks. Rather than spend so much energy talking, talking, talking about who the Dems will nominate, who to vote for or whether or not Ralph will run and spoil, or perhaps Cynthia McKinny will come back in, we citizens should CHANGE THE WAY THE GAME IS PLAYED, play from a position of power, not weakness. Sure, we should support the best candidate and vote, as ineffective as this might be. But if we stop buying commercial products from those destructive entities who are sucking dry this country and the rest of the world, they will bend more to our wishes. Another few years and the chance will be lost. Police state, etc. It will be illegal to even suggest it.
You know how the Iraq war got shoved through and then they told us, "We can't just up and leave!" That's how our liberties will die. Once they're gone, it's a hundred times more difficult to get them back: precedent, inertia, distraction from the two-parties, majorities, on and on.
Now is the time for all good men/women to come to the aid of their country. (50wpm)
My compatriots and I are promoting a NO-SHOP WINTER HOLIDAY, 2007! At present, we're just blogging about it, not having the skills to design a real webpage to send out. Anyone interested?
PASS IT ON: NO-SHOP WINTER HOLIDAY, 2007! (Advise: use discretion, purchase locally made) Give things you've made, have fun, sing, dance, bundle up and take a long winter walk, volunteer ...
Is anyone out there as amazed as I am that there is little to no coverage of yesterday's actions across the country? After combing through the on-line news sites and watching the news at 10 last night (no mention), I can only assume that San Francisco and New York might have had gatherings . . . Was there a news black-out? Isn't it peculiar? I guess thousands of people objecting to the Iraq war isn't newsworthy, but some "Lost" actor in Hawaii getting busted for DUI is.
Kucinich is a sham and I'm disappointed to see Sheehan throwing her support to a Democrat. Kucinich is designed to keep the left in the Democratic Party fooled. He knows he will win nothing and at the end he'll support a pro-war corporatist Democrat like he did in 2000 or 2004 when he supported Kerry. His ignorant voters will follow him and vote for either Hillary or Obama.
The only way I'd take him seriously is if he ditched his corrupt party and ran as an Independent. He'd have a better chance to get somewhere anyway. The Democratic Party is rotten to the core as much as the Republicans, they have an incurable and inoperable cancer, known as greed for war cash. There's nothing anyone can do.
Abraxis, thanks for the kind words. And, no, I wasn't aware of the particular electoral arcania that Mr. Duncan helpfully brought up. It seems your political structures down there favour the already powerful even more than they do up here -- and that's considerable. (I take no pride whatever in the fact we have Conservative governments in both Halifax and Ottawa, but -- thank goodness -- we have the solace of knowing that they are both MINORITY governments, and are thus limited in the damage they can wreak.)
I agree with you, Parallax, that progressive folks down there need to speak the word "Kucinich" whenever possible.
Cindy, your influence is great. Instead of coming out in favour of people "like Dennis Kucinich," why not directly endorse him? I've seen you write elsewhere of him in very positive light. Your endorsement would encourage others to follow suit.
Cindy Sheehan
Thanks for all that you are doing.
NovaScotian
Good comments. But you see the vaild point raised by Mr. Duncan's post?
We Americans have knotty logistical barriers to having a national progressive candidate, like Kucinich, survive the Primaries.
What Americans are facing is the prospect of a post-primary General election campaign with no presidential candidate who addresses real issues. Unless Dennis Kucinich runs as an independent or third party, his voice will disappear in the General election presidential campaign babble between the Democrat and the Republican nominee.
You are right that American progressives need to come together nationally. But the only person who can make that happen in this upcoming General election cycle is Kucinich.
I think it was just for this reason that Cindy Sheehan, at the congressional level, chose not to run as a Democrat. She didn't want to get eliminated in the Primary.
It would be interesting to hear from Sheehan, what she thinks Kucinich should do.
jerry1208
"Kucinich is totally compromised to the interests of the Democratic party."
In a word: BULLSHIT!!!
Also, Jerry, can you pull a rabbit out of a hat? Intellectualizing and fantasiing CAN NOT make what you propose happen in the present OR near future. Play the cards you are dealt. If you have a better person for the job of Progressive Prez than Kucinich, please share the name for all of us!
While Kucinich & Gravel are certainly the only Democrats who even deserve to be respectfully listened to, neither stands the slightest chance of being nominated. And No, that's not because of "people like me" who produce a self-fulfilling prophecy by "being negative." It's because of how US politics really works. For example, even if the media marginalizing of these 2 guys failed (which it won't), and one of them started seriously moving up in the polls, the media would find a way to discredit him & completely destroy his campaign. The unhappy truth is that in the US, "the people" don't really choose the nominees. Actually, the media, the large corporate donors, and the Dem Party pooh-bahs choose the nominee.
If you don't believe me, try to explain why Hillary is being nominated. I don't know ANYONE who really supports her. Many see that she's just Bush-Lite in a dress. But she's going to be nominated -- & in fact, the whole campaign is basically over already. It will be official by "Super Tuesday," only about 90 days away. Even if a miracle happens and Obama is nominated, it's still Bush-Lite. The deck is stacked, coming & going.
The ruling class strategy is to force the public to choose between 2 "candidates" who have been thoroughly vetted in advance, & are both entirely acceptable to the rulers. Since the rulers' interests conflict with ours, we can't win by choosing either of these things. We are like prisoners in a brutal prison camp that's staffed by both a "Night Shift" and a "Day Shift" of guards & wardens. Suppose the Night Shift seems a bit less brutal than the Day Shift. The Tories who come to blab on CD that we must be "practical" and vote for the "lesser evil" are like the prisoners who become bizarrely attached to the Night Shift, and insist that the best we can ever hope for is to have the Night Shift take over a larger share of camp management duties.
"Where do we go from here?"
A new strategy is needed!
We must first understand how the previous strategies of opposition have been inadquate.
1. No single individual politician can barely understand let alone solve the vast scope of crises we are now facing. Not Kucinich. Not Nader.
2. We must go beyond protests, demonstrations, petitions. We need to mobilize and unite the millions of people opposed to the Bush regime and agenda. Millions not just opposed to the Iraq war, but opposed to all wars for profit.
3. The Democratic Party, now receiving more corporate money than the Republicans, is part of the problem of making change. Kucinich is totally compromised to the interests of the Democratic party.
Reform of the Democratic Party is impossible with corporate funding and control of the Democratic Party candidates and agenda. An elected Democratic Party candidate (never Kucinich, who lost in 2004) will fully continue the war agenda of the Bush regime, the agenda of the Project for the New American Century.
4. The Green Parties barely exist, strife with internal fighting, deferring to the Democrats when
a "progressive" is in office. Nader never joined the Green party.
5. We need a People's Peace Party (PPP)to unite all the people to engage in the long term struggle to turn this country away from war. We need to stop the privatization of the federal government for corporate profit interests. We need to re-establish that the United States government is "of, by and for" the people.
6. "The Camp Casey Peace Institute is calling for a Peace Summit in San Francisco on the weekend of Martin Luther King, Jr's birthday..."
On a previous interview Cindy expressed an interest in a People's Peace Party. Please add this to the agenda of your Peace Summit for consideration.
No what happens or doesn't happen November 2008, the establishment and educational value of this new party would be incalculable. Candidates, selected from the many knowledgeable activists on many issues, could run at every level government (national, state, local) to start the process of a transition of power.
From corporate power to people power!
"we need to support the Peace Candidates we already have like Dennis Kucinich that are floundering on the decks of the USS Main Stream Media."
O.K. Cindy said it! Now can you Cindy-Groupies get on board?!
I meant the above with absolutely NO disrespect for the incredibly courageous, Ms. Sheehan; I meant it for those of you who CONTINUALLY look for reasons not to support D.K.
either because of his 2004 decision to support the party against W. (I'll NEVER understand why he still gets flak over that in an "Anyobody but Bush" year?!) or other idiotic and superfluous reasons, like he happens to be a registered Democrat--working inside the party FOR US!
Thank you, Cindy, for supporting Congressman Kucinich who has consistently voted for--and sponsored--Progessive ideals throughout his career.
I understand that Bill Cosby had some good things to say about Dennis Kucinich on Larry King Live the other day - and Dennis's picture was flashed on the screen for just a second or so before they "had to go to a commercial".
It struck me that any celebrity who opposes the war should, if they are willing, be encouraged to talk about Dennis during any interview they take part in.
Dennis is right about the war, he's right about health care, he's right about NAFTA &c. (I think he's wrong on several other counts, but these three trump the rest.)
We need to give the name Kucinich the highest profile we possibly can. You all have bumper stickers, I'm sure.
Kucinich, by continuing to run as a Democrat, will only force himself out of numerous states by running (and losing) in the primary. This is because states like Georgia require primary losers to quit.
If he went independent, like Jeffords in VT, telling the Dems he'd caucus with them, he could run as an independent on all the ballots and make a difference.
Write or call your Congressperson and demand a referendum on the War, on energy and on Israel just for starters. Go Cindy!
Cindy..I just sent you an idea that struck me yesterday..."A Peoples Recall of the United States Government"...in the form of a national paper ballot. With the will of the American people being ignored, I believe this has the potential of waking up our representatives in ALL branches of this CORRUPT government to the seriousness of our intention to reclaim our country.
From north of your border, it seems clear to me that American progressives need to get away from arguing about whether a third party like the Greens is the answer or whether any Democratic Party candidate is fatally besmirched. Dennis Kucinich is clearly the candidate of choice for progressives. I'd love to see you folks down there get together for Dennis and work to successfully counter -- at least in the online world -- the MSM's plaint that Dennis is "unelectable" and therefore worthy only of being ignored or belittled.
Dennis in '08 or, I fear, you guys are seriously screwed. Any more corporate governance will mean the end of your long experiment in democracy.
We proved in 2006 that a concerted effort WILL overcome the machinations at the voting booth - short of abolishing elections, the power bosses' only hope is to divide the resistance. There is so much potential in the diverse but united citizens who are now aware of the dangers facing and overwhelming our ship of state.
Having control of the media is huge, but it did not prevent us from overcoming the hype in '06, and more and more folk learn to regard such propoganda sceptically as we approach our next opportunity. Once we have a strategy which will produce results, I don't doubt we will all unite behind it; the stakes are so high.
Whatever happens in the primaries, I do not think they will be the determining factor. A writein campaign, even word-of-mouth if it has to be, will get the message across as to who are the progressive candidates - I and many others will be listening for that, and our job it will then be to canvass our own significant contacts, getting the word out to them.
It might just be an amazing time to be alive, this coming year.
True champions start from behind and circle around the pack. Go, Cindy!