wilmoor how do you think I would feel about big companies using fresh water sources for profit given that I am so adament about protecting the Great Lakes? Good point about the wasteful lawncare freia, not to mention the futile usage of fossil fuels when they mow it!

Hi Webwalk,
"i know this is so hard to get our minds around, but nationalism is SO 20th century. i know that simply saying that and knowing that is only the first step toward doing the long hard work of coming up with new ways to understand our identities as humans on Earth, but it is an absolutely necessary first step."
I love that there is some sense in all of this divisiveness portrayed in this and so many other commentaries. The truth is that nationalism of any sort, be it expressed as religion, race, culture, gender/sexual orientation, ethnicity and any other form of separate identity, is at the core of our problems. I'm not sure if this is what you are saying, but I see that until we begin working together as a global family to address our problems as a community, there will be no lasting and effective resolution to all of these issues. Global warming is real. Overcrowding is real. The loss of finite resources is real. What is not real is that we are separate and in competition with each other. The competition is a false perception based on fear and dysfunctional belief systems. As long as we see violence and force as means to conflict resolution, there will be no justice and no peace. Let's look for solutions with compassion and kindness; not anger and hatred.

peace,
st john

I like how so many people want more environmental protections enacted.....until it inconviences them or is contrary to one of their ideological parameters! They also decry imperialism, yet they espouse imposing their will and wants on another population for the purpose of expropriating the resources for short term gain!Lets say they pipe the water from the Great Lakes basin and there's none left after five years? Which resevior are you going to tap then? Now you just displaced millions of people in Canada and Northern states and you have the nerve to mention neighborliness! Many of you have no business disparaging Bushco, for you are of the same short sighted ,greedy ilk!

partymariner says "... my blood just boils when I hear of proposals to siphon off our water to short term, poorly planned developments in Arizona and Nevada! The Great Lakes is a self sustaining and regenerating eco-system brought about by Ice Age glaciers.It is a finite resource!If that water gets piped out West it is GONE FOR GOOD!"

How does partymariner feel about the big companies that are buying up lakes to "siphon off" the water for their bottled water business? That practice is drying up lakes too.

I would agree with Kent Shaw (above). The people being impacted in California are white and rich. The people in New Orleans were black and poor. THAT is what makes the difference in the response. It's not that FEMA or any government agency has learned that much about emergency response in the past 2 years.

The sad thing is that so much of the water in Cal and other drought regions is being used to water GRASS. I mean I was in San Fran and these people are watering their lawns. I live in WI and our water tables are shriking and like hell are we going to allow our water to be siphoned off for water grass. Hell with grass, I dont have any, I dont mow my lawn any more. Grass monoculture as well as mega monoculture farming is the most wasteful use of land and water.

PARTYMARINER__I have to agree with you that it does not seem very intelligent to build million dollar castles where the risk of destruction by fire is great. We all synpathize with those who have lost everything, but if one takes a calculated risk and loses, it is not up to everyone else to make it right. Of course, the government should do what it can to keep local areas functioning and then it is up to the locals to recover. It would certainly be possible to help much more if our nations assets were not being wasted with all of the destruction in Iraq. One thing the people that lost their mansions should remember is that the Bush tax cuts went mostly to the wealthy so they already have had some government help.

5:59, and it is just hitting the water...good night and good luck

COMarc, doubt all you want and remain confused or whatever it is you are feeling "out west". as the sun is setting on the pacific tonight, it is the best one all week.

Ok I'm finished arguing with people. I was in no way commenting on the situation in California. I'm sorry for the devastating loss of property and the anguish so many must be going through. I was only trying to convey a point about reckless real estate developments and their environmental impact, which is something I thought the author was hitting on.I had no intentions of insulting anyone.I will say that the left seems to have learned quite a bit about public discourse these last seven years....FROM ANN COULTER!God forbid you try to question some of the left's orthodoxies!

'lastdregs' I live "out west" these days, and I haven't a clue what you are talking about. And if you are speaking in such broad generalities as this, its a pretty good guess you don't either.

Some of the areas that are burning are Republican strongholds, if that helps break through your bumper-sticker notions of California.

Been reading Naomi Klien's book. If there are any real estate developers who want the land the people lived on, then they'd better watch out and be paying attention in the next few days or weeks.

The track record around the world for the last 40 years is to use a crisis like this to force through changes that would not pass a free and fair democratic election. Thus the land grabs we've seen in Sri Lanka and New Orleans as the victims of the disaster are hauled off to camps far away and its made difficult for them to return. All so developers can start building their 'ideal' solution on a 'clean slate'. Or maybe it will be that some key environmental laws that people have been fighting to defend will get gutted quickly while people are still struggling to survive.

But the record of the last 40 years is that the people of San Diego and California should be very much on their guard right now.

my personal sense of entitlement dictates that i deserve a cerzesa, so i will don my respirator and walk (not burn fossil fuels) to the store. have agood day p.m.

Partymariner,
are those out west that you talk to all the time the ones with the sense of entitlement? how else could you conjure up such a sentiment? oh yeah, jealousy raises it head

Partymariner
I don't want to generalize or start a war, but many out west seem to have an extreme sense of entitlement and have this "world revolves around thy" attitude!

is that statement a double negative, oxymoron or something else entirely?

Lastdregs, It has nothing to do with sharing water or regionalism. I talk to people out west about this and I don't think they understand that the water used in the GL recycles back to those bodies of water! That won't be the case if we pipe that water to the south west! I don't want to generalize or start a war, but many out west seem to have an extreme sense of entitlement and have this "world revolves around thy" attitude!

Partymariner, competition for dwindling resources is the cause of many problems facing humanity. the fact that you did not single out socal is rather irrelevant in that you seem to not be interested in not sharing with someone....be it a 'zoni or an "illegal".

Again Maxpane, I know all about our government's multitude of transgressions against our Latin neighbors and the disaster that NAFTA turned out to be for both sides of the border! But to cry about expanding developement and the environmental impact that this has, to further deny that the large influx of immigrants which is fueling this and, lastly to decry anyone who points this cause and effect out as "racist" is being, at the least, really dishonest!

Hi,

Regarding the impact of immigrants on problems of development and ecosystems:

There is NO solution to these problems at the level of one region or one nation. We MUST create deep understanding of human integration into landscape, and work - as if our lives depend on it - to create human systems that integrate with and support natural systems. This is Permaculture design, and in fact our lives DO depend on it.

For one region or nation to restrict immigration in order to "solve" problems of development and ecosystems is selfish and shortsighted and WILL NOT WORK. Humanity all lives together on the Earth, almost seven freaking BILLION of us now, and every moment that we continue to ignore this and seek national "solutions" to our multiplying ecological crises is another moment wasted.

i know this is so hard to get our minds around, but nationalism is SO 20th century. i know that simply saying that and knowing that is only the first step toward doing the long hard work of coming up with new ways to understand our identities as humans on Earth, but it is an absolutely necessary first step.

Partymariner,
thanks for the suggesting an appropriate writing posture. i realize your geographical target and think it ironic that you would like to share my weather but not your water.

militantliberal writes...
"Any federal disaster relief funds should be conditioned on the passage of appropriate fire containment regulations."

any federal disaster relief should be conditioned on containing the cause of the disaster? got a plan for hurricanes and tornados? how bout an earthquake or tsunami? wildfires are as natural in socal as a hurricane in a gulf state. where is the humanity that so many c.d. writers seem to profess to hold so dear? i am well aware of the political nature of this region and wonder if the same comment would apply to "liberal" san francisco. mostly though, i think regional centrism generates the belief that it is always the other that is lacking in intelligent planning and should be held to a higher standard when bad things happen to good people.

You need to relax lastdregs! I said nothing about "SoCal" or the fires there...in fact I mention AZ and NV for the fact that I believe it is short sighted and stupid to build real-estate developments there, given the obvious lack of water...which they are going ahead with anyway ,from what I gather!As for the "geographical superiority complex" I hate it here...too damn cold and I will move soon enough!

Vern, I am in no way villifying Latinos nor questioning their work ethic. That is not the point! I do agree with you about the wastefull mindset that whites seem to possess, although that is generalizing a bit.The author of this article cites "unchecked development" and urban sprawl as contributing to the tragic fires in SD. I was mearly suggesting that it is extremely dishonest to argue that the large influx of immigrants is not contributing to this trend!

Partymariner,

Better take a look at those "free" trade deals passed by your "lovely" politicians and the stolen/rigged elections in Latin America especially Mexico supported by the US government and media and quit blaming the immigrants for everything.

once brian williams, katie couric and the prez made it out here, it became obvious that the wildfires would be used by the less well known, and equally unknowledgable, to make a statement to reinforce some inane belief or commentary. specifically to this article, the response to this round of devestation caused by fire was and is amazing. yeah some of the guard is overseas, but we still responded to our neighbors needs and will see each other through. problems that exist here are not exclusive to socal, so i would not be so quick to judge. chances are that those that live here, regardless of by birth or choice, would stop to help and give shelter to some mid-westerner with a self-rightious geographical superiority complex regardless of political association. that's right, there are a bunch of rich white folks here...not to mention black, asian, latino and whatever else people call themselves that can overcome a trying situation. having lived all over the country i can say that lifestyle over limits is as american as apple pie, sushi, gumbo and pizza. there is hardly a region that is not suseptable to setbacks caused by nature and poor human impact on it. we are getting over this regardless of outside criticism or assistance and hopefully will use this experience to plan for a better future. for those with no understanding of socal, i would suggest that watching reruns of 90210 and the o.c. is not going to give insight into the diversity and fortitude of its residents or their awareness of their environments and its limitations.

The Latinos in my town are quiet and hard-working. They live in the abandoned neighborhoods of whites who sought greener pastures with more fashionable addresses.
Part of the problem is the "throw-away society" culture that just boards up and moves on. You never see that waste in Europe.

I live in the Great Lakes region and my blood just boils when I hear of proposals to siphon off our water to short term, poorly planned developments in Arizona and Nevada! The Great Lakes is a self sustaining and regenerating eco-system brought about by Ice Age glaciers.It is a finite resource!If that water gets piped out West it is GONE FOR GOOD!No offense to people in AZ or NV, but YOU CHOSE TO LIVE IN A DESERT!I also hate to sound Lou Dobsian, but do some of you really think that unfettered immigration isn't contributing to this urban sprawl and the toll on many of our environmental systems that comes with it? To some of my fellow leftists I suggest that you need to be more honest with yourselves and realise that you can't have it both ways!

An interesting statistic is the estimate of $1 Billion dollars to restore lost property from the fires in Souther California.

Consider that Bush just asked for $169 Billion to fund his destruction in Iraq. In other words multiply the destruction in California by 169 and you've got an idea of how much harm is being unleashed by this policy.

The war is going to cost over 2 trillion dollars in the next decade according to recent estimates. That represents a sum of money with destructive capacity 2000 times greater than the recent fires in Southern California.

This means the Bush is exposing the US to a destructive "surge" of military activity which equals a fire 2000 times more destructive than the one just witnessed in Southern California.

Not all harm in life is immediately visible.

I suppose the military industrial "flamethrower" will scorch Iraq mostly, but the loss of capital has a commensurately destructive effect on the US.

What good can come to the US by unleashing a holocaust 2000 times greater than the fires in Southern California on Iraq and the middle east? And how can one expect this to go on without it having an action/reaction backlash in lost economic power and finally in destroyed international financial infrastructure?

When I saw the headlines about the damage, the first thing that caught my attention was how small the sums were in comparison with the budgets for bombing, killing, incarcerating and torturing that are being used to create war in Iraq.

"Let's see how the Bu$h FEMA responds to this disaster. I predict another Katrina type response."

Not this time, bandido. These are mostly well off white people losing half million, one million, and two million dollar houses, not some poor, black riff raff from the ninth ward without two nickels to rub together. These people COUNT, not like some poor black folk. Orange County is a HUGE Republican stronghold in a generally liberal state. Action WILL be taken to relieve these people of their burdens.

Experienced a similar situation in my own region of the country where over-development and more intense prolonged rainfall make flooding inevitable. We had to abandon our 300 year old home which we lived in for over 40 years. Yet we are often blamed for not having "personal responsibility" by choosing to live near the river. This is the typical blame the victim mentality, since the fact is overlooked it never used to flood prior to rampant development and climate change. In our transient culture, few have long roots and a sense of place, so they aren't familiar, as the author notes, with the local rhythms, seek instead to find singular causes, since they can't recognize the shifting patterns. In our area many place the blame for recent flooding on the reservoirs upstream. When it is pointed out that the reservoirs have been there prior to the flooding, well that is simply ignored and they carry-on in complete denial, but with great sound and fury pressuring naive politicians to carry their torch and not address the real issues.
The flooding is here to stay.

As a local resident, and a recent evacuee, I would agree with most of your sentiments. It is foolish to think we can overcome nature. We must live within her cycles. Fire, in this area, is a very real part of the natural cycle. We probably should consider more controlled burns and we should build in ways that assume these events. For what it's worth, we do have a pretty successful Community Supported Agriculture movement and many of us produce biodiesel locally from waste grease. We are not the majority, but even in this hedonistic paradise, the movement toward a local, sustainable future exists.....

Also, the response to the fire has been executed wonderfully and should be textbook instructions for all government leaders on how to respond to a disaster...

Any federal disaster relief funds should be conditioned on the passage of appropriate fire containment regulations.

Let's see how the Bu$h FEMA responds to this disaster. I predict another Katrina type response.

Another natural disaster that could occur within the US is the outbreak of a bird flu pandemic.

Medical resources that are also deployed overseas would not be available for Americans at home.

More on this in the article ...

"Avian flu outbreak in U.S. could lead to quarantines; Bush advocates use of military"

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=11919

Draft Gore.