I don't understand how anyone who has taken a high school level history class can throw the accusations that littlem85 was slinging about on the 24th:

"1. The US was that last country to abolish slavery
2. The US was the first country to drop the A-bomb
3. The US didn't give women property rights (and all other normal human rights) until LESS THAN 100 YEARS AGO!!!!
4. The US, the wealthiest country on the planet, does not have free health care for all (or even most?) of its citizens."

Each one of those accusations are true and each if looked at from any other perspective than a chronological one, are completely negate and invalid.

1. Slavery in the US was brought here with the colonists; it wasn't something we came up with ourselves. AND we plunged ourselves into the most horrific war in our country's history to end it as soon as we got our feet under us as a country.

2. Accusing the US of technological advances is not a negative thing. Looked at objectively and not through the lens of self-loathing, we were the first country to develop the A-bomb and it was a secondary decision by a few Americans that brought the horrors about. You cannot judge all of America on the decisions of a few men, just like people are indignant that Europeans judge us based on Bush's actions. Let's not be hypocrites people.

3. Women's rights DID happen, women today seem to forget that whenever they can in order to try and twist an old knife into the men around them in the present day. Once again, when women's rights gained the spotlight, they were granted. Yes we had to fight for them, but is there anything that is worth having that you don't fight for? And, for a country that is barely 230 years old, women's rights came relatively quickly.

4. As to the accusation that the US being the wealthiest country in the world and not having free health care for everyone… let me go back to the history lesson. America was set up that way!!!!!!! We are a country that is founded on the idea of the "American Dream," that if a man (or woman) works hard, he can achieve what he/she wants out of life. The first American's didn't want the government running their lives and set it up accordingly. We are not a socialistic country. Am I saying that we shouldn't have free health care? No, but I think that you are making an unfair accusation because that idea will take longer to be adopted than any of the other problems you have brought up because our very constitution was formulated to be against such a direct touch of the government in the everyday lives of it's citizens.

Granted we are the most powerful nation right now, we are also one of the youngest and are still figuring ourselves out. Give your country some slack guys, it's not like we are out there to be manipulative and evil with the power we have and if that ends up being the case, our system of government puts the power to do something about it in our hands. If you're upset, do something about it!!! Don't just sit there and complain, it's getting old. Heck, if you think the politicians are doing such a bad job, you run!

Greeley, he's gotten out words, announcing his shame for us Americans and feels brokenhearted. I, too, feel brokenhearted for America. I'm an American who's been afraid to ask "what the hell is going on?" but now I realize nobody knows for sure what's going on. Why are we at War? Why the President needs this war? Could it be a father/son thing? I hear many answers from different people. Oil is the reason, oil is needed for the US to survive, and Daddy Bush is stating 'finish what I couldn't son'. Oil is driving his greed for money and power because that's what Americans really want. Freedom of the Iraqi people, consequently conquering peace, and yes, finish what his father started. I really couldn't draw up my own conclusions but I don't think I should wait to find out. By then my privacy will no longer exists, the Americans whom disagree will be shut off from the public media even more so and the government will be running away from the truth, hiding behind its lies. I guess that time is now. American's have trusted their government in the past. The government has never had to work so hard at 'deception' as it does so now.

The word "America" does stand for Freedom the word but that does not mean we let people exercise those freedoms. I do feel very strongly about the title. I am brokenhearted about the whole America situation. I wonder what way this nation is going. Will we end up in the Big Brother 1984 situation only years later than Orwell predicted? How do we tell our children that lying is wrong when the government we are supposed to trust is a terrible example? I have lost a lot of hope or faith in this system of democracy and people in general. This loss of hope comes from the leaders of my country, America, not the evil forces in countries overseas. The more people I meet and talk to the more people I find to be narrowminded, selfish and in a sense "robots". They listen to and believe everything they are told by the media as if they never watched "Total Recall." I say this because even though Greely's credentials stand out, not many will really read this article and believe what he is saying. "The government kidnaps, tortures and murders" this is a strong statement that I find to be completely credible however the majority of Americans would never even let this thought cross their minds. That is not what America stands for. At least not to Americans. One of my favorite songs by the Underground Hip Hop artist "Cage" has a parody of George Bush's voice that says "it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the quells of democratic movements and institutions of every nature and culture with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world, except right here at home!" I really hope that this country's administration can be brought back to the moral standards it once had and my hope along with many others can be restored. Oil and money is what this administration cares about and the media tells the public to buy big cars to support them. We need to make the current generation, in all aspects, want good for the future. Everyone in the future.

I'm more ashamed at what has happened to our legacy of constitutional freedom.

The torture and other disgraces on an international scale would make good grounds for Impeachment, but what Bush has done to the Bill of Rights is the real crime.

"....the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

Not so. Switzerland trumps the USA on both counts.

littlem85: I stand corrected. Peace be with you, my sister. I apologize. Again, thanks for all your kind words.

Pfutrell: Thanks for your kind thoughts. When I watch xenophobes like Lou Dobbs (on CNN) glorifying the minuteklan, and other white supremists; it reminds me of Goebbels. Lou Dobbs is a fraud. He claims to be for the American middle class, but he's playing them like a Grand Piano. Of course the American middle class being the consumeristic sheep they are, fall for that foolishness. Meanwhile Mexicans have to watch their backs from the likes of these xenophobes.

I'm a girl... but no offense taken : )

Thank you littlem85, it's really cool people like yourself that make it all worth my while. Peace be with you always, my brother! Edit: I want to thank Pfutrell for your kind words as well. Peace!

FOREXTRADER: just ignore GailWilson, he's talking rubbish and its a hopeless cause...Love your comments though

Ralph Nader set the wildfires in Southern California.

Oh wait, I'm not commander_n_chimp....

Nevermind.....

SEQUOIABISON:

On Ron Paul, cont'd.:

I have not heard that he wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. He basically does not believe that the "feds" should interfere, but that does not mean that he would as president roll back Roe V. Wade, since he does not believe it's his job to interfere with the courts. (He believes in the separation of powers.) I think we should parse his statements carefully, and don't assume he's a right-to-lifer because he's a strict constructionist. He is a strict constructionist.

And when you say he's a "hero" to NRA, please be careful how you word that. He does not vote the way he votes because the NRA has paid him off. Yes, they may like the way he votes on gun control.

And no, it's not ONLY his stance on the Iraq (occupation). I like this about him:

1. Smaller government, MUCH less government spending.

While it's all the rage to talk about single-payer health care, currently our government spends billions every day, the large majority of that spent on defense.

We need to reign that in. We need to stop "borrowing" to "spend". This will in turn improve the economy, as well as the economic buying power of each of us as individuals.

2. Abolish the IRS and the income tax. I make very little money, but what little I do is grabbed by the federal government for what it wishes to spend money on. I do not agree with the government's spending priorities. And because my "take home" is so little, my time is consumed by trying to make more money. It's a never ending battle.

3. Stop the corporate governance of our country.

Health Care: Again, while the single-payer health system is attractive, and for that reason, Dennis K. is an attractive option, consider what happens if we do NOT have Dennis and get a single-payer health system: Big Pharma and the HMOs and PPOs, which Ron Paul rightly sees are antithetical to "health maintenance", will continue to determine what health care is provided and what is not, as well as continue to keep costs of health care prohibitively high for a great many of us.

In India, where they do not have a concept of "insurance", going to a doctor is cheap. Ron Paul, an obstetrician, says doctors in this country are frustrated and sick of the situation. They are not the ones benefitting.

4. Get out of foreign entanglements, or don't get into them to start with.

What about good ones? Ha ha ha. Is the UN all that good? Are the World Bank and IMF good? Seriously, maybe we ought to think about drastically reducing our "policing" (or whatever you would call it) footprint. Whenever we "go into" another country, we really fuck things up. Even Bosnia where we bombed from thousands of feet up and killed many innocent civilians, cannot be said to have been without negative consequences. The first Iraqi war led to Al Quaeda's growth around the idea of our occupying their holy land and thus their needing to remove our presence.

Plus, "reducing our foreign policy footprint" runs so counter to the trends, that I would applaud it for that reason alone. Roll back our huge foreign entanglements, and work instead with other countries as friends. Ron Paul quotes Thos. Jefferson on this.

Gail Wilson: you are the one obfuscating facts. You call yourself a progressive? God forbid. I've read wing nut publications like the WND that were more progressive than you. Oh forgive me for not kissing up to your superior white supremist Anglo culture. It's people like you that truly make me ashamed of America. At least you prove my point about the ignorance of Americans. I'll let you go Gail so you can go to your Minuteklan meeting.

When the majority of Americans take responsibility for what has happened and accept the fact that they did in fact elect "W" for a second time. Admit this fact and make the changes necessary in 2008 . . . . Then and only then will we begin to climb out of this mess. A good start would be to make the present administration responsible and tell them so with an impeachment. That I am afraid is not going to happen so we will continue to "Cry in Our Beer" so to speak and wish that someone would come along before the next commercial break and fix everything. That my dear readers is reality . . . The current American Reality.

"commander_n_chimp October 24th, 2007 12:30 pm
We have Mr. Ralph Nader to thank for the country's situation. With his help, George W. Bush was able to steal the Florida election in 2000 and plunge the entire world into a charnel house."

******
LIES^^^^^

Truth:

1. Al Gore lost HIS HOME STATE of Tennessee.

2. George Bush stole the election in Florida.

3. Candidates do not OWN votes -they earn them. Ralph Nader did, Al Gore did not.

4. If third parties are such a threat to your spineless, pro-war democrats, then implement INSTANT RUNOFF VOTING (IRV). Look it up at www.fairvote.org

Any other straw-man arguments you would like to put forward?

dkitching..The fix was in in 2000..Nader or no Nader, bush was going to be president. Nader was not a member of SCOTUS. Jebb bush and his cohorts purged 97,000 voters from legally voting in an intentionally erroneous process. Can you explain to me the logic behind the fact that a quick withdrawal of US troops from Iraq will cause more deaths than a slow withdrawal?

A fast withdrawal will cause more American to be killed. A slow, methodical one will allow maximum protection for the troops.
Someone mentioned what about civilian deaths?

Well now that we have armed the Sunnis and Shia, those deaths are unstoppable. Whether we leave immediately or slowly, there is going to be an all out civil war once we are gone.
Progressives, of which I am one need to think practically.
Had a thousand or so Naderites voted for Gore, we would be far more advance in our objectives!
As I said before, I am a progressive and not apologizing for Dems, simply being practical. If progressives had voted Gore instead of Nader in 2000, we wouldn't be in Iraq, Universal healthcare may have been enacted, no Patriot act, no CIA Renditions, Social Security fix would be done and no illegal wire taps.
This is what the lack of practicality by progressives have caused. please think of repercussions that this election could be. COMMON SENSE, PLEASE!

Ron Paul is a Johnny one note to liberals who oppose the war. But, Ron Paul a conservative Texas republican congressman also opposes Social Security, Medicare and would like to overturn Roe V Wade and make abortions illegal.

It is easy to agree with many of the Libertarian views Ron Paul espouses like his opposition to the war on drugs, and his anti war stance on Iraq but do we really think as Reagan and Paul do, that government is the enemy and social programs that benefit so many Americans should be abandoned and done away with?

Basically Ron Paul is not an easy personality to pin down, many of his Libertarian views coincide with the progressive liberal philosophy but in some cases I think he takes them too far.

He would like to dismantle most if not all of the federal agencies and would pull out of the UN and NATO.

He is a big hero to the NRA for his stance against any kind of Gun Control.

He opposes single payer "socialized" healthcare and would like to do away with public education, which he says should be the states responsibility, unless the issue is abortion and then he wants the federal government to pass a law making it illegal.

He opposes Brown V Board of Ed, which is why many white supremacists support his candidacy. This does not mean he is a bigot but it does give hope to that crowd of states rights bigots.

Again the so-called Libertarian wants the federal government to change the constitution so we no longer have birth right citizenship for children born of illegal aliens.

He has repeatedly offered legislation that would allow religious displays in public places, like courthouses and city halls.

Ron Paul voted for a provision designed to deny same-sex couples in Washington, D.C., the right to adopt children.

Lets face it Ron Paul is just magnificent when it comes to opposition to the war, a conservative who is against the war how novel, but do we really want a single-issue candidate?

We have Dennis Kucinich who not only opposes the war even more vociferous than Ron Paul but Kucinich is a true liberal when it comes to health care and all the other social issues progressives strongly support, why turn to Paul when the ONLY thing that attracts us to him is his anti war position?

Forextrader:

Right on!

I cannot believe the way this country -- federal, state and local --is handling immigration. It's right up there on the "wrong" scale alongside Iraq. It shares with the Iraq war (occupation) these things:

-- Forget about the past, and history. History is irrelevant. History has been "rewritten" according to our present day needs.

-- We need resources. First and foremost, our (voracious) appetite for resources must be unfettered, and no one should get in the way of that.

-- Xenophobia, Racism, Intolerance.

-- Valuing others lives as less important than our own, and their lives as less important than our needs.

-- Scapegoating others for our problems.

Has the entire country gone mad?

Note to the editors of CD--Aren't there enough neocon trolls publishing thier drivel throughout the land. I am just as sure the padre' sincerely believes his writing as I am that he is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Maybe he could get a gig with newsmax!

I agree that American history shows a trend towards liberal human values more strongly than the history of any other country. But the reactionaries(those who really hate us for our freedoms---remenber? "He's a card-carrying member of the ACLU!") have taken control and gone so far as to roll back habeas corpus rights! Those were first recognized by an English king in the 1200's!
But at least Dennis Kucininch or Mike Gravel can openly oppose entrenched power here. In Russia, the great Garry Kasparov is risking his life by standing up to the autocratic Vladimir Putin. There is still at least a flicker of hope here as long as we have net neutrality and unfettered access to websites like Common Dreams.

wertw

forextrader - Your post is the most humorous post of the entire discussion. What wit. Thank you for brightening my morning. LOL. I have to assume of course that it is tongue in cheek as there are more factual errors than a GB speech on WMD. I think I should point them out to you though.

"Don't lecture me about Mexicans "draining" resources, especially when it was their resources to begin with!! My Mexican ancestors were in Alta California long before the Anglo invaders came. "

Can you explain how your Mexican ancestors got here to the U.S.? They were not the first peoples here in Alta California. Spain came here as conquerors looking for gold and silver to ship back to Spain. (In fact they came some 200 years after the first Anglo, Sir Francis Drake, claimed the land.) Spain brought soldiers and missionaries and enslaved the first peoples here in Alta California, forcibly Christianized them, destroyed their communities and forced them to move into pueblos where they could be taxed and could become laborers to the Spanish colonizers. Notable that these are exactly the tactics of the British in Rhodesia in the 1880s and 1890s.

Mexico only became an independent country in 1822, 26 years before California, Texas and Arizona were ceded BY Mexico to the U.S. by legal treaty (Guadalupe-Hidalgo) after a war that at the time was as legal as you please. Remember that annexation by conquest was 100% legal under international law at the time and the land was not even annexed, but *ceded*.

Sucks for sure, but there are a lot of things one might want to change in history that one really can't. You don't see the people of Germany asking France for Alsace-Lorraine back or asking Russia for East Prussia. You don't see the people of France asking for Wallonia back from Belgium. You don't see Finland asking Russia for Karelia back.

Illegal aliens DO drain resources because the law (14th amendment of the Constitution - section 1) states that they have to be treated equally but they are not able to pay taxes like everyone else. People here from every country illegally are a drain including people from Ireland, Canada, China, Poland, Russia or any of the other countries that have significant populations of illegal aliens. I hear people talking about them all the time in the same breath as the illegal aliens from Mexico or points south. I personally know several Europeans that have received deportation orders for being here illegally. I think that they should go home just like anyone else here illegally. It only is an issue of color in that there are many more illegal aliens from Latin America than any other region.

"As far as Spanish goes, the Rio Treaty allows the Mexican people in the Southwest to express their own culture as they see fit. Unfortunately, America has violated that treaty and terrorized Mexicans in the US up to this day, "

You might want to read the Rio Treaty. I did. It is at the following address - (see http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/Treaties/b-29.html). It does not cover expression of culture or language in any of its articles. It is a defensive treaty that states that an attack against one country is an attack against all countries. It came into force in 1948. Interestingly, the U.S. *IS* a signatory of the treaty and Mexico is *NOT* a signatory of the treaty as of 2004.

Please don't invent treaties that don't exist or non-existent parts of real treaties to support your arguments. That is the act of a 4 year old arguing about their bed time.

"...in America, people are suppose to have "inalienable" rights. So there is no such thing as an "illegal alien"."

This is the best part of your parody. You do realize that there is no relationship between the words "inalienable" and "alien" right? They are two different words that have the same root like "tenencia" and "contener". I might add that the "inalienable" rights you mention are not granted by the government of the Government of the U.S., but are asserted to come from our Creator - i.e. God - in English Common Law.

In Common Law there were two sorts of rights a person had. The first were "alienable" rights which could be bought or sold, like a contract where you agree to do something in return for some consideration - sell land, work under contract, etc. The second were "inalienable" rights which a person had by simple virtue of being human and could neither be taken nor bartered away - being killed without due process by government, involuntary servitude and slavery, etc.

In U.S. law, an alien is a person who owes political allegiance to another country or government and who is not a native or naturalized citizen of the land where they are found. It is derived from Latin where it was used to refer to things or people belonging to another person or nation. Illegal Alien means that the "person from another place or country" is in a country without the right granted by that country's government for them to be here, that is without a visa or travel documents and permission by the country to enter. If I were to go to Mexico as a tourist and stay there beyond the limit of my visa, I would be an illegal alien in Mexico and subject to deportation. A measure that they enforce with regularity I might add.

If you want to argue that laws should change or that Latin Americans are discriminated against, then by all means do so. You would, in fact be correct to do so, but don't resort to obfuscation, revisionism, lies and ignorance.

Thanks, Anney...Anyone is encouraged to add what they wish. With the bush cabal in power, the source of material is unfortunately close to infinite.

Many thanks to geoff29 and others who have correctly noted and once again rebuffed the moronic comments of commander_n_chimp. He really needs to get over it! First of all, that was over 6 years ago, and furthermore, no matter who ran against Bush or how many votes that person received, the Republicans were bound to hand the election to Bush. Look what happened in Ohio in 2004!

Some of the dubious events in Ohio included, but are not limited to, at least one county where there were more votes for Bush than there were voters registered, too few voting machines in Democratic districts and plenty in Republican districts, purging of voter lists, and likely miscounts with corresponding "lost" records.

The purging of voters in Florida had a whole lot more to do with the results of the "election" than all the votes for Nader possibly could have. The subsequent decision by the supreme court to stop the recount was a travesty.

If Nader had not been on the ticket, the Republican machine would have found another way to skew the count. They did it in 2004, and they are likely to do it again in 2008 if we are not very, very careful.

C_n_C needs to find another dead horse to flog.

Willybill

Good posts.

Bush doesn't act in my name, either.

What the United States has suffered at the the hands of the madman in charge, and his conscienceless political party will only be cured by trials at the Hague and nooses around specific necks.
While I would favor impeachment; if that is the best that can be achieved-what is really required here is full-bore prosecutions followed by full-bore executions. No one is above the law. America needs to set the example here. People need to be hanged for their crimes. It's just that simple.

Dennis Kucinich for Pres
Ron Paul for V.P.
Nader for sec of state
Hagel for sec of defence
Shehan for sec of peace

It should surprise no one at all that the true believers of the "democratic" party continue to blame Ralph Nader for Al Gore's inability to stand up for his own constituency in 2000. True believers never change. Seventy years ago and half a world away, the faults of the Soviet Union were all layed at the feet of Leon Trotsky. Which ought to give all of us in the real opposition to the military industrial monolith a pretty good sense of what the "democrats" and their friends will do to us if we don't keep our guard up.

rosross, good post. I couldn't agree with you more. The United States has fallen into a dismal state of corporatism - something that's been going on incrementally for years and years, but has been overtly shoved into our face since Bush inherited the presidency.

Unfortunately, the propaganda-machine is very adept at convincing -- what I've read on this site and I think is very appropriate -- the "sheeple" that we're the most free nation in the world and have what others clamor for, and risk their lives to obtain. Every time Bush (or any of the other neocons) says "freedom", just substitute the word "capitalism" and you'll have a better idea of what they're really meaning.

We're experiencing a constitutional crisis right now. It's too early to tell what the final outcome may be.

Thanks again for your insightful comments.

Um, as others have noted, Greeley's short list is evidence he isn't paying attention and should get a job working for the state department if he's not already employed by them.

The self-declared "greatest democracy on earth" would be a truly farcical joke if its nuclear-armed mafia weren't such a grave threat to the rest of the world.

"[T]he highest standards of freedom and democracy" amount to what the tyrant himself refers to as an "accountability moment" once in four years. At least most "democratic" leaders are held to some small measure of ongoing operational accountability and some, under parliamentary systems, are even required to answer questions from elected representatives on a day-to-day basis. The U.S. "decider", on the other hand, answers to no one.

If the U.S. considers that to be the pinnacle of democracy, I can't help wondering what U.S. dictatorship would look like.

Andrew Greeley should be ashamed of America. All Americans of conscience should be ashamed of America. As an Australian I am ashamed of my country for its involvement in Iraq and its treatment of David Hicks and a number of other things which have been done in recent years by the Howard Government.
But in the first paragraph Greeley touches upon one of the major problems with America and the major obstacles to Americans actually doing something about the 'evils' which Greeley goes on to cite.
Greeley states: Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known.
All I and many others who are outside looking on can say is: Says who? This is an American view of the world and it is quite simply incorrect. There are a number of other democracies, including my own, which, despite flaws and failings offer higher standards of freedom and democracy than the United States. Britain, France and various European nations can claim historical firsts in both freedom and democracy.
And in today's world the reality which Americans seem unable to accept, or of which they remain in blind ignorance, is that the American system is one of the least free and least democratic of all.
How can people be free when they have no social welfare safety net? How can people be free when they are paid one of the lowest basic wages in the developed world and have to compete with illegals who are in essence slave labour? How can people be free when they cannot afford a decent education? How can people be free when they cannot afford medical treatment?
In Australia and a number of other developed nations there are social safety nets which 'catch' those who fall. In America, people fall and end up in conditions which can only be called Third World.
In America the quality of your education is dependent upon the wealth of your suburb. America has the highest levels of illiteracy in the developed world. It also has the highest crime levels.
And in terms of democracy, the claim is almost farcical. America in truth is not a democracy..... it is a constitutional republic where the Constitution is law. In addition, America has a presidential system which is in essence a process for electing a King. What is required to become King, sorry, President of America, is money, money, money. The President of America does not reflect the will of the people and is not representative of the people. He reflects the will of the rich and corporate. He represents money and big business. The American lobbying system ensures that political representatives in the US reflect not the will of those who have elected them but the will of those who have paid for their political campaigns. No other developed nation has a government which is so clearly 'bought and sold.'
Nothing will change in America until Americans take off the blinkers about what they believe themselves to be and begin to learn about other nations. The fact that some 80percent of Americans don't possess a passport is indicative of the insularity and ignorance of the population. While Americans may like to believe they are the 'best' it would take very little travel through Europe and the other developed nations to realise that for the majority of Americans, the lifestyle they have is not the best in the developed world, but the worst.

I may be feeling brokenhearted but I'm not broken. Despite all the relearning I've gone through over the years, sadly watching my understanding of the American myth get shattered by the writings of Howard Zinn and Noam and others, my disillusionment has given way to greater clarity and understanding. Despite it's checkered and violent past, this so called "American experiment" is a very unique and amazing adventure and I refuse to let a bunch of dangerous nutjobs usurp and destroy what does not belong to them.

The founders predicted a time such as this, when there would be attempts to install an imperial presidency, or as they would call it at that time, "the divine right of kings". Aside from the Civil War, this may be the greatest challenge this country has yet faced. The sad thing to me is that very few seem to realize the dire predicament we are soon to be faced with.

The impending threat to bomb Iran is extremely troubling. There are so many nightmarish scenarios that could result from such an idiotic move. It must be stopped at all costs. The only thing that can stop this insanity is to start impeachment proceedings for both Bush and Cheney. It's ridiculous that these men are still getting away with their lying bullshit!

Impeachment should not be the "off the table" just because some feeble minded "speaker" is afraid of her own shadow. Who the hell is she to tell us that? Where are the leaders in this country? Who has the balls to start a filibuster?
We can't wait for an election. It will probably be too late. The wheels of imperial usurpation are rolling at full speed and it must be stopped.

Ron Paul consistently addresses the systemic problems that must be fixed, particularly the corruption that is rampant in the corporate governance of our country right now.

He does not wave some crazy banner (poor people or whatever). Instead, he carefully describes the problems and the reasons for them. He makes alot of sense. Although I hate Republicans, the Democrats are no better. I cannot vote for Hillary, or the other Democrats. They don't seem to have the guts to say what is really wrong, because it's not in their financial interests to do so.

Ron Paul is a libertarian. He should be heard by Common Dreamers. He could help "undo" the dangerous trends that have occurred for the past half century. He has no illusions about "American the Great or Beautiful". He says "blowback", unintended consequences have been around for a long time due to our short-sighted foreign policy goals — Korea, Viet Nam, and he puts 9/11 into the same category.

And he acknowledges the bent-over-the-barrel position (no pun intended) of American citizens with respect to big oil as it furthers its interests with the collusion of Congress and the presidential Administration(s) of years past.

He also says Cheney is one scarey guy, and if we're going to impeach, start with Cheney who most probably "orchestrated" (and lied about the reasons for) the Iraq war.

Let's give Ron Paul a chance.

Denny is the dude with the 'tude! He has been married three times, but I'm sure there must be some good reason for that?? Movin on up?? Trophy Wife?? None of our bidness???If He inhales, he's got my vote! As for the old catholic with delusions, he shoudn't be allowed to embarass himself. This country was built on genocide, rape, slave labor, wage labor and for half a century, a death machine called the "military/industrial/CONGRESSIONAL complex.
Kucinich CAN be elected, but only if we all{millions} camp out in the halls of congress and OCCUPY the "WHITE HOUSE" [PAINT IT pink!!]

Greeley says he is ashamed for and not of America as though the kakistacracy happened like an act of god. Who elected and re elected this band of thugs in the WH and in Congress, some outside agency? I am ashamed of America. The Constitution doesn't work because it is too complicated to change and the process has been bought by the highest bidder, the well heeled. Look at the spineless Democrats who when it comes to impeachment rap on the window with a sponge. They and the GOP are a mobius strip and do not offer any decent alternatives.I have a feeling that a state of emergency will be declared one day, sooner than later,it will be cheered on and once on will stay on. As a show case for democracy it isn't outstanding. Greeley should do some critical thinking.

The Constitution has to go back into the shop it is broken. I tried kicking it and shaking it like a vending machine but it is still not working.

George is right it is not worth the paper it is written on unless the checks and balances are functioning properly.

We the American people have abrogated our responsibility and allowed our leaders to abandon the principles set forth in our rulebook.

It is as though the commissioner of baseball suddenly decreed that during the World Series the American league will have 4 balls and 3 strikes for each Batter and the National league will require 5 balls and 2 strikes for each Batter.

Well that's not fair.

Neither is Wire Tapping without a permit or suspending Habeas Corpus, or Torture or changing the rules of the constitution.

Well sure we progressives are all broken hearted about the violation of the Constitution and our American principles.

We are also very angry about things like changing the tax laws to favor one segment of society over the other by reducing capital gains and not reducing payroll taxes, like going to war under false pretenses.

You know amid the chaos and confusion about why we actually went to war there has only been one steadfast sane voice rising from the halls of Congress and that outspoken voice belongs to Dennis Kucinich.

"Celebrity" has been a positive drumbeat for Kucinich and I am happy to second her endorsement.

He has consistently opposed this war and has offered intelligent solutions to many of the seemingly intractable problems.

Uncomplicated easy to understand solutions like diplomacy, actually talking with people face to face instead of badgering them from a distance with saber rattling, jingoistic threatening language

Kucinich possesses a deep understanding of the people of the Middle East region and he would bring an evenhanded approach to the Israeli Palestinian dispute.

Domestically he is the only candidate proposing Not For Profit Healthcare for all Americans.

And he is not beholden to special interest lobbyists who continuously block any discussion of this issue.

The next few months will be the last time for many years to come that progressive liberals will have an opportunity to support an intelligent voice that represents our ideals for a better America. Vote for:

DENNIS KUCINICH 2008

Support Don Quixote, vote your conscience and watch the impossible dream come alive.

Nah, sorry, I think Greely is one of the worst writers here at CD. His mistruths constant provide neocons with the ammo to fire and fatally wound any arguments progressives may have. I believe Greely to be a 5th columnist for the neocons.
His statements on the Armenian genocide blithely ignore the US' own attempts at genocide here at home and abroad. Congress' fascination with this is the pot calling the kettle black.
At that part of the article, I had to give up reading. Send this phony back to journo-school, please!

Dems have already conceded to the MSM's selected crypto-neocons within their own ranks. So we'll be able to "chose" between one Republicrat or the other in '08. Neocons and hawks on both sides, lobbied into acquiescence by AIPAC and the m.i.c. respectively.

Dichterfreund,

Thanks for update on how the election of 2004 involved a candidate the liberals didn't nominate (Kerry) and how it was stolen, in your view, and conceded too soon, even as Bush had 3.5 million more counted popular votes than Kerry, plus an electoral college majority.

I'm sure you have some valuable nuggets of history about all that, but what's truly beyond credible explanation is why you wish us all to concede the election of 2008 to Republicans by default, even before it has been conducted.

and as for accountability, that does not mesh with religion. i really enyoy the bare assertions that believers spout off about how god gave us this or that and how that morality has any relation to a higher power that only faith can prove. i think you missed the point regarding reality and you will most likely never get it littlem85

littlem85, nice to know what you believe in, but that is not reality...dear

DeAnander: Love your comments. So true.

stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known

uh huh. a country stolen from its indigenous inhabitants who were slaughtered, cheated, herded into concentration camps and bantustans... a country whose infrastructure was built by slave and wage-slave labour... the country of the Tuskegee Experiment, the Alien and Sedition Act, the invasion and annexation of the Philippines and Hawai'i, the Mexican/American War, the multiple invasions of Panama and Haiti... come on now.

not that any of the other Great Powers has clean hands, by any means -- but they don't strut around posing as cute fluffy bunnies in the abbatoir of realpolitik. let's get real and not pretend that the sh*t of Empire don't stink just as badly no matter language it happens to speak. the Paris Commune had ideals just as lofty and humane as any American democratic tradition -- and the Iroquois Federation implemented them better and earlier. the US has no copyright on nastiness, and it has no copyright on nobility either.

America was born in land theft and violence and it continues to run on resource theft and violence. that is how imperial cores work. that is how primitive (and sophisticated) accumulation works, that is what "being the richest nation on earth" means. until that changes, forget any sentimental blithering about bright lights on hilltops: that bright light on the hill top is more like the high beams of some goddamn H2 on the superhighway to world domination. or an arsonist with a matchbox, dreaming of insurance fraud.

lobster's comment: "forextrader: ILLEGAL Aliens are just people who are here illegally. It has nothing to do with skin color."

Response: Are you serious? There are many undocumeted immigrants from Ireland and other caucasian countries residing in the US, yet nobody is saying a word about them. Besides, hard working Mexicans are referred to as "Frijoles" (beaners) and "wetbacks". They are even called "lazy" even though I don't see too many Anglos doing back breaking labor. Don't tell me it's not racist!

"Perhaps if you lived in an area where county hospital taxes were the largest part of your property taxes because of ILLEGAL aliens, the kids come to school without their shots, special teachers must be provided to teach English as well as skills in Spanish; then maybe you'd be tired of allowing just any old body who could sneak across the border to claim the rights U.S. citizens elected to provide for themselves. Our cities, schools, countryside are way over-crowded."

Response: Don't patronize me! History tells me that the US seized lands that formerly belonged to Mexico. This war was waged against Mexico under false pretenses (hmmmm sound familiar?). Many Americans have and are still benefiting from the resources that were taken from Mexicans. That helped create a large American middle class. Don't lecture me about Mexicans "draining" resources, especially when it was their resources to begin with!! My Mexican ancestors were in Alta California long before the Anglo invaders came. Their lands were taken by the chicanery of the US government. And people have the nerve to blame Mexicans?!?!? So who is "illegal" here? How much are the Anglos going to pay back Mexicans? As far as Spanish goes, the Rio Treaty allows the Mexican people in the Southwest to express their own culture as they see fit. Unfortunately, America has violated that treaty and terrorized Mexicans in the US up to this day, just for exercising their rights. Children who spoke Spanish in school were physically and mentally abused. IN WWII, US military personnel in uniform brutally assaulted Mexican youths ("Zoot Suit" riots). The abuse goes on and on!

"When my familyl (sic) immigrated to Canada we were required to submit medical records, a chest x-Ray, school and college records and show that we had a job when we arrived."

Response: It's none of my business how Canada handles their immigration. However, in America, people are suppose to have "inalienable" rights. So there is no such thing as an "illegal alien". That exists in the fantasy of bigots, xenophobes, the Minuteklan and Lou Dobbs.

"Shouldn't we be encouraging Mexico to make life possible for their own citizens since they're a pretty rich country."

Response: What world are you living in? Yes, Mexico should have an economy like Germany. It doesn't because that's not in America's interest. America wants to see a Mexico that is semifeudalistic. Mexico's resources and people are there for the taking by the plutocrats. You think that America would want a vibrantly strong Mexico? Don't make me laugh! The monopolists in Mexico are tied to the plutocrats in the US. Besides that, Mexico did have a chance to make things better under Lopez Obrador, but America helped screw that up. Obrador was the real winner of the Mexican election, but America helped conspire to steal that election from him and install their puppet, Felipe Calderon. They (The US and Calderon) waged a smear campaign against Obrador accusing him of being like Chavez (a decent leader that America loves to hate).

It really saddens me that people who claim to be progressive and non-racist would harbor such visceral views about Mexican people.

In the name of God, the All-Merciful, the Mercy-giving

LASTDREGS: You are right in the sense that we all make our own choices and are free beings and (for the most part) have the power to do what we want. I believe that it is God who gives us that free choice. And I agree that just because someone says they are doing something for God, it doesn't make it right. God gave us rational minds to think with, and I think the world would be a much better place if people used their brains even 2% of the time.

But that's not religion or government, that's human nature.

I am a member of reality, thanks very much. In my reality I see nothing wrong with following a broad set of moral and just codes, which is what Islam is.

God forbid people should hold themselves accountable to something higher than base desires! The key word is accountable, if you don't feel accountable, than your going to become like those dudes in the White House – regardless of what you believe or don't believe. We must feel accountable. And I feel accountable to God because I believe God will judge me when I die (which is a tad bit more than nothing, in my opinion).

When you said that "government and religion all imply a form of …exclusion to those that do not believe or subscribe" to them, I think you are being a little narrow minded. I mean, the beauty of human nature is that we are diverse people, we will have different governments, cultures, and religions. That is just the way it is. According to the Quran (which I believe in, being a Muslim) God made His creation like this. It is a good thing that we should want to preserve. Its not exceptionalism, its diversity.

The problem that results is when a certain group of individuals begin to be aggressive about asserting THEIR authority and power on others and destroying and quashing the other people…that's what we are seeing today.

And if you are looking for a world without religion or government, you better wake up because it ain't gonna happen.

And that's reality, my dear, not mythology.

I guess Rev. Greeley was talking to me and a few others. He expresses our shame over what is done in our name. Powers and pricipalities thy name is Mammon and empire. So many vent their anger. They have that right. So far anyway.

Rev. Greeley was speaking for them too though they didn't notice. They still can say their piece in the America they revile. That America of diverse opinions, contrary views unpopular with the government (think Burma recently)... that America where most of them live is whom Rev. Greeley speaks. He like us is sorrowful for the America that we do believe in. Bush and Cheney are NOT America. We are. Rev. Greeley and the angry venters and the alternative sites like CD which gives them a place to vent, the protestors, the Veterans against the war, the Raging Grannies for Peace, Cindy Sheehan ... you and me. We are ashamed America isn't what we would like it to be and we want America to be it's promise and potential. The venters excuse themselves apparently yet where do they live (yeah I saw the canadian...you know what I mean). Do they include themselves with being part of all they vented about? How convenient for them. Do they pay their taxes, hold a job...do they notice who they are? Americans.

I am an American and the Rev. was speaking to me. I agree with him. I am ashamed at what is being done in my name too. The Rev and I and others don't pretend that we are living somewheres else. This is my home and I want it to be better like it should be but I don't pretend ... it is not my America. I try to change it for the better.

Peace.

"Whatever the political leadership is or will be in 2009, no candidate seems capable of saying, "We're getting out now!"

This false statement, whether or not made consciously, illustrates the fact that because people fear change deep down and only want to keep choosing over and over new tactics they know will not work, they pretend they have no power or choice but to continue down the same path away from salvation. People are afraid of their own power, because they are afraid of being responsible for outcomes. People are afraid of truth, even though only truth can set us free.

DENNIS KUCINICH, 2008, whose actions on record back up his wise words.

Peace.

In whose name do you continue to hire mercenaries who kill innocent civilians indiscriminately, paying them many times the average American soldier's wage?

In whose name have you treated returning American veterans with callousness and disrespect?

In whose name have you added signing statements to legislation you have signed, virtually allowing you to ignore the very content of the law?

In whose name have you stripped this populace of the ancient writ of habeas corpus?

In whose name have you kept the facts of global warming from United States citizens?

In whose name did you deter minorities
from their right to vote in Ohio in the 2004 election?

In whose name have you formed an illegal union between Mexico, the United States and Canada without the knowledge, oversight and approval of the Congress or the American public?

In whose name have you sold cluster bombs to Israel for use against the Lebanese in direct violation of international law, leaving behind millions of death traps for innocent civilians?

In whose name did you allow the imprisonment of United States border guards, granting immunity to the drug smuggler they tried to apprehend?

I'm with you, Father Greeley. This war should have been over four years ago. Bring them home now!

I am brokenhearted over all the deaths happening daily over there. Getting out might just end all that. It's worth a try.

DD,

"We nominated a military guy (Kerry), thinking that would work. It backfired and we lost worse than in 2000."

"We" did nothing of the sort. Kerry was the DLC candidate foisted on the party by the political consultant class.

All the exit polls showed Kerry with an insurmountable lead, to the extent that it was being reported early in the evening that he'd been told he was going to lose. The Fox crew had tossed in the towel and looked horrified. An impossible statistical shift took place as the night crept on -- and Kerry, having promised to "count every vote," immediately conceded.

Those who insisted that the election was stolen were silenced -- only John Conyers eventually managed to hold hearings in a basement; but the party leaders played go-along-git-along, just like they are now.

AMEN to CELEBRITY -- Kucinich does answer to the most idealistic description possible of the country -- perhaps we should write Fr. Greeley & ask him for a column mentioning the fact?

In Whose Name?

………An Inquiry from the American Majority……

Mr. Bush….

In whose name were those in Florida who had paid their debt to society not allowed to vote in the 2000 election?

In whose name did the Supreme Court of the United States appoint you as President of the United States?

In whose name did you fail to protect
American citizens on 9/11?

In whose name have you failed to find and prosecute the true perpetrators of the 9/11 atrocity?

In whose name did you lie to the American public about the motives behind a preemptory attack on the sovereign nation of Iraq?

In whose name have you allowed the continued sacrifice of United States soldier's lives, limbs and families?

In whose name have you allowed the continued killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women, children and infants?

In whose name have you continued to torture prisoners of war?

In whose name have you allowed the squandering of billions of dollars of the American taxpayer and billions of dollars of Iraqi's wealth

PNAC, anyone....anyone? And while on the subject Andrew, when has this arbitrary country, taken from its former tenants, not been at war with "others" in order to acquire resources that the others had?
Multinational corporate control, and in reference to the 'robber baron' remark made earlier....read John Gatto's Secret History of American Education, relies upon the church you so blatantly are a part of. And as for the 3 big religions in this world....used by the elite as an effective shield, and I am talking directly to you on this one Andrew...I've just about had it with this crap!
Each main religion believes they are chosen, and it works oh so well for these asshat warmongers, and each one insofar as I am aware believe that each will be granted supremacy over the others, whomsoever does not believe, that they walk like pigs to the spiritual slaughter.
Every person persecuted on this earth for your religions are the only ones I see gaining any favor from any deity if one such exists.
America has been betrayed, pumped full of the Manifest Destiny doctrine to the point of sickness and apathy.
But hey, its all going as planned, right? God's plan, eh, Andrew?
I hope God is an angry mix of Anglo, Native/African Gay woman who liked Gardening, smoking pot, and cherishing her population controlled spiritual children before all the powerhungry men (not all men btw)decided they'd start making the rules, killing all the animals, polluting all the air and water just to build a church and make some profit.
We have a church, her name is Earth, and maybe on the day her children begin listening to her instead of a dead sky zombie warlord, we'll have some peace...Aho bro', and when you get raptured with your holier than thou attitude, don't let the cosmic door slam your ass on the way out....

In whose name did you fire competent United States attorneys who failed to further your political agenda or who were investigating your administration's corrupt practices?

In whose name do you allow obscene corporate profits and continue to give them tax breaks and allow corporate executives to earn in one day what their employees earn in a year?

In whose name do you deceptively promote and sign tax cuts that affect only the upper 5% of the population, while many of the average middle class workers must labor at two or three jobs and place their children in daycare?

In whose name do you refuse to meet with a grieving mother who sits on your doorstep seeking answers?

In whose name would you not meet with a tri-pelagic Vietnam veteran/congressman sitting in his wheelchair on your doorstep?

In whose name have you spoken bi-partisanship and practiced partisanship of the most egregious nature?

In whose name have you muddied the American reputation in the international community and destroyed its credibility?

In whose name have you allowed the use
of depleted uranium as a weapon in Afghanistan, Iraq and other conflicts….FOREVER contaminating those nations and poisoning their inhabitants and OUR soldiers?

In whose name have you bullied the members of congress to succumb to your dastardly plans to spy on your citizens?

In whose name, Mr. Bush?

In whose name?...............

Certainly not mine!

Certainly not the majorities!
And certainly not in your name…as you are our chosen representative…chosen to reflect the majority consciousness.

And so I ask you one more time…

In whose name do you govern?

In whose name do you lead?

If your only answer is in YOUR NAME,

you must resign, as this is still a
democracy, a representative republic…
NOT A KINGDOM.

You, Mr. Bush, believe me,

ARE NOT A KING!!

Widen the lens....the US is, along with the rest of the world....playing out a "dominator" value system that overrides every decision--economic, social and political. Unless we change this value system--wars, injustice, economic disparity (1% of the US population owns 37% of the wealth...the bottom 90% owns 28% of the wealth).will continue because a dominator/top down system ensures them. Wars make sense in a dominator value system (Yes, God is on our side!), Income disparity makes sense in a dominator value system (Every man for him self...Golden rule...he who has the gold rules), Injustice makes sense in a dominator value system (that's just the way its always been).

This issue is confronted in Riane Eisler's work, Real Wealth of Nations--creating a caring economics and in it she shows the dominator value system--how we got here and how we can get out. www.realwealtheconomy.com

Then maybe Andrew won't be so ashamed FOR America...but will realize that a dominator value system sets the stage for it....

forextrader: ILLEGAL Aliens are just people who are here illegally. It has nothing to do with skin color.

Perhaps if you lived in an area where county hospital taxes were the largest part of your property taxes because of ILLEGAL aliens, the kids come to school without their shots, special teachers must be provided to teach English as well as skills in Spanish; then maybe you'd be tired of allowing just any old body who could sneak across the border to claim the rights U.S. citizens elected to provide for themselves. Our cities, schools, countryside are way over-crowded.

When my familyl immigrated to Canada we were required to submit medical records, a chest x-Ray, school and college records and show that we had a job when we arrived.

Shouldn't we be encouraging Mexico to make life possible for their own citizens since they're a pretty rich country.

littlem85: Peace be with you also! Thank you for your kind comments.

Hey Chimp person,

Actually, Gore won Florida. The Supreme Court prevented us from discovering that FACT -- but discover it we did, too late.

This should explain it:

sociocentrism

Taking one's own social group as the standard by which others are measured.

-Online Medical Dictionary

"…Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

Really? Have you looked at CANADA lately?

Dr. Welles, Toronto

(previously of the U.S. — and my ancestors came to the New World with a land grant from William Penn so we HAVE been paying attention!)

The problem is the war. Period.

"...Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

Really? Have you looked at CANADA lately?

Dr. Welles, Toronto

(previously of the U.S. -- and my ancestors came to the New World with a land grant from William Penn so we HAVE been paying attention!)

"I am ashamed for America because all the evil done in the nation's name IN RECENT YEARS is turning off the light on the mountaintop"

What? You dont have a problem with all the evil America has done in the preceding two centuries?

Personally, I have been thoroughly disgusted with the evil of the USA since I was old enough to think for myself.

With all due respect, patriot Alan Greenspan recently reminded us that there was no "war." There was an illegal invasion based on lies, the goal of which was oil control. A "debate" over who won or lost a "war" that never took place is like debating who won the bank robbery? The robbers or the victims?

On a side note, if another country invades a country the United States is occupying, is that a declaration of "war" on America, or just the country America is occupying and, hence, protecting by law? Cause it would appear we're at "war" with Turkey now - or is "allowing" them to bomb northern Iraq just more appeasement? If they "accidentally" kill US soldiers during this appeasement phase, will we retaliate? Or will our Loonitary Decider apologize, like he did to China after they forced one of our spy planes down?

Is that Putin drooling over in the shadows?

Adding to the list of others enjoying our highest standards of freedom and democracy:
3 million dead in Viet Nam and thousands still enjoying the after effects of Agent Orange poisoning. Including US servicemen
200,000 Filipino civilians during an early (failed) test of empire
Those killed by death squads in Chile and Guatemala from the dictators we instilled and supported
Unarmed Timorese civilians killed by Suharto's army. Armed and trained by the USA with full blessings of Ford and Kissinger.
Laos, Cambodia, Haiti?

And to stay off topic like dkitching, we can 'GET OUT NOW'.
According to army and air force vets, even at the height of the Viet Nam conflict we flew tons of supplies in and out of anyplace we wanted. Logistics is not the issue. There is no political will to leave Iraq, there is no plan to leave. The bulk of our soldiers walked in over the border, across the sand. They can just as well walk out with the same tank and air support. There is not one single enemy plane or helicopter to threaten them.
The biggest threat to US soldiers are politicians and their supporters who want to stay the course. Leaving them in harms way is not a method of support.

Wow, pretty heavy discussion here. I might offer this, which hopefully you will find humorous. Yesterday, I phoned the Constitution Party. In their Preamble, they claim the Constitution entirely was founded upon the teachings of Jesus Christ. So, the receptionist picked up the phone and I told her that I have a question about the Preamble. I said "as someone who studies the Constitution and has a sincere interest in it, can you tell me where in the Constitution the words "God" and "Christianity" appear?" Unintentionally, my question caught her off guard. So, she politely referred me to a "Field Director." I asked him the same question and proceeded to get the bullshit run around with no definitive or plausible explanation. His best answer was "well you know there are many people in this Party, and many of them are eccentric." That was it! I was supposed to buy that answer. He then proceeded to ask me if I was a left-wing liberal. I replied "what the hell does my political affiliation have to do with the disingenuous, misleading information you include in your Preamble?" I ended the conversation politely and thanked him for his time.

littlem85,
"In the name of God, the All Merciful, the Mercy-giving"
appropriate because god does nothing himself. it is those operating in his name that that bring his wrath. part of the problem, not solution. i would invite you to become a member of reality, not mythology.

"the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known." what government or religion has stood for such lofty pronouncements? they all imply a form of exceptionalism, in my opinion, and exclusion to those that do not believe or subscribe is standard.

I couldn't finish reading this article. As sool as Greely started on with that America-the-city-on-the-hill-free-est-poeple-on-earth crap. I quit reading.

Exactly when, Mr. Greely, was this golden age when Americans were so free, or selflessly promoted this "freedom"? Sorry, but as defined by FDR's "four freedoms", many countries - including our neighbor to the north, have been ahead of the US for at least a century.

To save American from all the corrupt forces we need to use what the Framers gave us in Article V of the Constitution - the convention option. State delegates could consider constitutional amendments outside the control of Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court. The option was given us because the Founders believed that one day the public would lose trust in the federal government: THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED. Go to www.foavc.org and learn the facts and become a member so that we can use this strategy to get necessary political reforms.

I'm ashamed to belong to the same species as bush, cheney, reagan, and all those leaders of corporate predatory capatilism, that wall street loves so much.

bushism is 100% lies and I'm ashamed to belong to a species that believes even 10% of them.

I'm ashamed to belong to a species that thinks Hitler wasn't so bad. Bush clearly thought he was a pretty fine and profitable associate

Maybe the upper classes have always been amoral sociopaths, generations of bushes clearly have.

Anyone remember about "Robber Barons".

Of course we're the most successful predators ever evolved. Unfortunately (?) were so successful we're going to exterminate ourselves, too.

I"m sure it would be extremely unpatriotic(*) to say thge human race would be better off with gw in Guantanimo and Castro in the whitehouse.

(*)patriotism is defined as: do as you're told, keep your mouth shut, and don't think about trying to get your hands on my personal furtune.

ps Israel was founded by terrorists and they're still pretty bloody damn violent now.

I'm also ashamed to be a fool enough to care about any of this.

I use the word ashamed in a more or less ironic sense

All the writers at the Chicago Sun Times can suck my balls. Hardly anything gets published in the mainstream press in this country unless it fits comfortably within the bounds of "acceptable" opinion. Take your American Exceptionalism and shove it up your ass. If you want to redeem yourself for writing so much feckless drivel, Greeley, try writing a good article about the increasing wealth divide in the country. How might spending tons of money on waging costly foreign wars affect interest rates, I wonder? Good thing all Americans benefit from getting good returns on investment. Wait, you say all Americans don't? Only the very wealthy benefit? Well, then good thing our tax system was modified to even things out or else some folks might get the wrong idea...

About the following:

"Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

Is this meant to be funny?

"Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes" So far so good.

"the United States stands… for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known" You've got to be joking!

Writers for the Chicago Sun Times don't get out much do they; or is this one assuming that people reading this are totally ignorant of the history of the world?

What is it about Americans that even when they are well intentioned they must preface their remarks with something like:

"America shouldn't have to ask anyone's permission before attacking other nations"

er…duh! Buddy, isn't that the whole idea of the UN? It was meant to prevent stupid unnecessary wars like the one between the US and Iraq.

"I love America as much as anyone"

This is one reason why liberals have so much trouble getting their point across. They waste half their time reassuring their listeners that they love a good war as much as anybody and then there is little room left for anything other than quibbling about how to blitzkrieg better than the present US government.

"The US constitution is not a suicide pact" …(I love this one)

Nope, it's not. Neither are the constitutions of democracies. Yet somehow they manage to make their constitutions more than mere window dressing.

"America is the greatest nation in the world"

Here we are back at the above article (with a bit of paraphrasing). It's as if the US is a giant reverse black hole. No light (or enlightenment) can penetrate. The Chicago Sun Times, besides being a serious paper by US standards, prints "the United States stands… for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known" apparently in earnest. I don't know about you but I personally have known standards much higher than those stood for by the US.

Published on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 by the Chicago Sun-Times
Why Those Who Love America Are Feeling Brokenhearted
by Andrew Greeley
"I am ashamed for America. Note carefully that I do not say I am ashamed of America. Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known.

I am ashamed for America because all the evil done in the nation's name in recent years is turning off the light on the mountaintop."

total hypocrisy with a religous implication. oh wait, i think i am being redundant

As Wyatt says in "Easy Rider," - We blew it. Yes, I am "broken-hearted," but I am angry, too, with Bush, with the inept Democrats, with the terrible failure of the government to respond to its citizens. I am especially disheartened because despite their proclaimed anger, no one seems interested in doing something about it, something tangible beyond donating money to politicians of questionable ethics, beyond grousing in blogs like these, beyond the sales of protest banners and tee shirts, etc., etc. I am angry and fed up, and very frustrated because I don't know what to do anymore. My vote doesn't count. The entire electoral system is so corrupt that a visit to the polls is a futile exercise. Most people with whom I've discussed these matters apparently agree. Most tell me that they hope for a leader of integrity who will confront the issues boldly and resolve them. Most tell me that not a single person seeking the office of president shows any indication of the ability or willingness to do this. More and more people tell me they will probably not vote at all. "What's the use?" my friend asks, "What's the use." I am heart-broken, angry, outraged, frustrated, and ashamed, too, of what this once promising country has become. And there is apparently nothing I can do about it.

The Bush administration and Congress are at fault for what has happened, not Ralph Nader. That should be obvious.
Dwelling on past votes for Ralph Nader has no bearing today. The right thing to do, in my opinion, is to vote for the best candidate available for each elective office.

In 2000, some people might have thought that the Bush administration was going to be moderate. That couldn't have been an excuse for 2004. Apparently, many people are scared and are unwilling to do their own thinking. The mess we are in now was very predictable.

dkitching wrote:
"If we just get out now without a slow phased down withdrawal, We would cause many more deaths of our soldiers."

Well we Brits have just got out of Basra, even if only as far as the airport. And our casualty rates have dropped accordingly.

And "hear hear" to all posters who've pointed out that America can't stand for democratic values it doesn't practice, and, in many people's opinion, never has.

In his book about Hollywood, "Bambi vs Godzilla", David Mamet wonders if everything must, in the end, run down into a state of corruption. He answers that he's afraid it does. This has apparently already happened to the United States. The majority of Americans absolutely refuse to take responsibility for living in a democracy. It's simply far too much for them. The middle class has been voting now for a generation to destroy its own way of life. The congress and the courts sit around drumming their fingers on their lips while a stupid, egg sucking despot wannabe defecates on the Constitution. Neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama can turn this around and frankly they don't want to. Persistent and aggressive mediocrity will destroy nations. We are no exception.

I spent the aftermath of the 2004 election feeling "brokenhearted" that America's liberals did not prevail in removing Republicans from running the country. We nominated a military guy (Kerry), thinking that would work. It backfired and we lost worse than in 2000. I often think Dean or Edwards would have either one been better choices.

No more. Democrats have made (and are making) some mistakes, just as Bush has made many, but "defeat is not snatched from the jaws of victory" except to the extent that caring liberals give up. I'm not. The election of 2008 is the turning point, and Democrats can win it with a non-military leader (yes, such as Mrs. Clinton if the momentum takes her to the nomination.)

As for deciding to be "ashamed" of America, it is our duty to be the fixers of our future, not the critics of our past.

BIGJOE31 and FOREXTRADER: my sentiments exactly ...couldn't have said it better.

salaam

In the name of God, the All Merciful, the Mercy-giving

How the HECK has the US stood for "the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

That statement is playing directly into American Exceptionalism...and American Exceptionalism (i.e. imperialism) is exactly why the US is behaving today the way it is...harming freedom...

Just to list a few freedom 101 examples that the US failed to have:
1. The US was that last country to abolish slavery
2. The US was the first country to drop the A-bomb
3. The US didn't give women property rights (and all other normal human rights) until LESS THAN 100 YEARS AGO!!!!
4. The US, the wealthiest country on the planet, does not have free health care for all (or even most?) of its citizens.

Some legacy...

Andrew, I am ashamed OF America.

I ashamed of a country that is so technologically advanced and has all the info at it's fingertips, yet Americans celebrate their ignorance.

I am ashamed of a country that wages an insane War on Drugs, hates on Marijuana (a plant for God sakes!); and believes that prisons are a legitimate growth industry.

I am ashamed of a country that rationalizes trashing the constitution to invade sovereign countries and take away freedoms at home.

I ashamed of a country that pays lip service to global warming and other environmental issues, but has a population that's gotta have their automobiles, rather than a cleaner and more efficient mass-railway system like Europe.

I ashamed of a country who refers to brown skin people as "illegal aliens" as if they were from outter space.

I am ashamed of a country that wants to wear it's religion on it's sleave and act all "Holier than Thou".

I ashamed of a country that has a government that allowed a great and historic world reknown city like New Orleans to drown during Katrina.

I am ashamed of a country that has too many people that won't question, but accepts things as they are and expects everyone else to do the same.

I am very ashamed of America and I am not afraid to admit it.

"Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

Actually, this is where the flaw lies. Not everybody separates the ideal from the real in this stark way. A lot of non-Americans are much more pragmatic than this.

On January 31, 2005, Newsweek International published "Dream On America" by Andrew Moravcsik in which he wrote that the U.S. Model has for a long time ceased to appeal to the rest of the world: it's not pragmatic enough for us.

The essence of the article was that for years, much of the world did aspire to the American way of life. But today countries are finding more appealing systems in their own backyards.

I don't have a URL for the article, but all Americans should look it up, rather than continue with this fantasy that the US can "stand for something" it hasn't practised in years.

Greeley is a master rationalizer. He still cannot pen an article
that puts together the obvious - Iraq & Oil. That would be too shameful for his continued fantasy that Iraq represents some sort of abberation brought on by a "few bad apples" that hijacked our otherwise and heretofore goody-two-shoes government.

Grow up - Bush is a symptom - he's not the cause and he's not an abberation.

dkitching, I respectfully disagree with you.

From everything I've read and understand, the reason this "war" (let's be frank and call it what it is -- an occupation) seems without end, is because from day-one the United States has attempted to create an up-for-grabs, totally non-regulated, laissez-faire, free-and-unrestricted market economy in their country. It's been an experimental lab, of sorts. The "insurgents" are essentially the citizenry who were more-likely-than-not, laid-off from their (before the invasion) positions, while no-bid contractors came in, with a total foreign workforce, and attempted to impose upon them a system that has left them totally out-in-the-cold.

Unemployment, with no hope in the future, turns ordinary citizens into "extremists".

If the United States would leave, the Iraqi people would be free to establish their own brand of market presence. This would bring economic security, and an end to the violence and mayhem. Our occupation only exacerbates the problem. The sooner we leave, the sooner stability will come to their country.

By-the-way, the same "disaster capitalism" could happen in the United States, assuming Iraq (and next, Iran) can be counted as success stories for the neocons. Witness the harrowing problems that persist after Katrina. Neocons love a good disaster. It makes their job so much easier.

Anniesee is correct. Bill Richardson also is advocating 'Get Out Now!' He also has the international affairs experience and background that Kucinich is sadly lacking. We are already saddled with a pres who could not find countries on a globe being manipulated by those with a personal and ideological agenda.

I missed this in the first reading. Maybe Andrew is not paying full attention sometimes.

"Despite all its inherent flaws and all its tragic mistakes, the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

Really? How so? By wishing and hoping that it would be so?

What the United States "stands for" is what its actions at home and in the world at large manifest - no more and no less.

Therefore the highest standards that world has yet known include extraordinary rendition and torture? Gitmo, Abu Graib, wars of aggression, looting of our treaury and passing debts onto generations to come, taking from the poor to give to the rich?

One cannot pass over the ACTIONS of the United States with a bunch of feel-good B.S.

Sorry - doesn't work.

If you want the USA to stand for something other than the shameful
behavoir that is does in fact stand for now, and has stood for and countenanced and rationalized and supported -- you gotta change the behavoir.

I for one AM ashamed of the USA, for damn good reason.

Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate that I trust. Now I am wondering if he would take Edwards as a running mate.

Can you imagine such a team? Two men who are highly qualified, courageous, and mentally competent to look at this dire situation and do the right thing.

It's a winning combination!

I have to agree with geoff29

".....the United States stands, however incompletely and with whatever imperfections, for the highest standards of freedom and democracy that the world has yet known."

A few European countries might disagree with that statement. If so many Americans didn't carry this myth around with them things might be a lot different now.

And, as celebrity has to point out so often - Dennis Kucinich is the one America should be supporting - in droves. I think, as well as DK, that Bill Richardson has promised to "Get out now". So the Rev. Greeley isn't paying attention.

I usually strongly support Mr. Greeley. His points are all well taken except #1 about the Armenian genocide.
It's a shame that, that Mr. Greeley has jumped on the bandwagon to present the claim of genocide by the Armenians as if it were a historical fact. Many well-known historians dispute that claim. Turks for more than two decades have offered to open all the archives to any historian to investigate the claim. They have asked the Armenians to do the same but Armenians have refused to do so. Other than, perhaps the ultra-nationalists in Turkey, nobody on the Turkish side is saying that the Armenians did not suffer or lost lives . But claiming that 1.5 million Armenians got killed in a country that had a total of 13.5 million people and ignoring the number of Turks who got slaughtered by the Armenians have no historical base. It was a war. Many atrocities were committed, and many lives, including Armenians and Turks were lost.

Here is a short narrative of locally what happened during that time in the Trabzon province in NE Turkey where a close friend of mine was born and spent first 20 years of my life. These are first hand stories from his grandmother who was born in 1903. Her recollection is supported in several histories written about WW1 and its effect on the Ottoman Empire.

When the Russians invaded Turkey (Ottoman Empire) along the northeastern (Black Sea) seashore in 1912, they armed the minorities who were of Greek and Armenian in origin. Russian invasion triggered mass migration to the west. Almost all Turkish men were in the army fighting the invading forces in all parts of the country. Tens of thousands of women, elderly and children started fleeing the region. However, my grandmother said, after weeks of walking, they could not escape from the Russians who moved their invading forces via ships quickly and invaded all major centers in the Eastern Black Sea region. With the onset of the migration of Turkish population, ethnic minorities especially Armenians started ethnically cleansing the townships. They invaded, pillaged and ransacked the households vacated by the Turks. They killed thousands of innocent people who either refused to leave or were too old, sick, or young to leave. They raped thousands of women and girls. They stole all the valuables, burned down the houses. There are horror stories about what they have done. Volumes of books with documents and pictures have been written on the subject. Two brothers and two cousins of my grandmother ranging from 10 to 14 years of age were killed by the Armenians. Reportedly worse atrocities were committed by the Armenians in the Eastern (Erzurum and Van area) and South Eastern Turkey where there was a sizable Armenian population.

The claims by Armenians and to a degree the counter claims by the Turks in the media do not get into the details of the history on this topic. It is being portrayed as an incident or series of incidents happened in WW1. If you visit any of the Armenian websites that propagate lies about what happened, they start the clock in 1915 (April 24, 1915 to be precise). There is a history to that contaminated history. They deny any collaboration with the invading forces, notably with the Russians, the French and the British. However, there are many many official historical records made public by these nations that show their collaboration and some of the details of the atrocities they committed (there are also many documents provided by these nations showing that Turks committed atrocities near the end of the war).

As the full-fledged war of WW1 raged thru the years 1914-1918, many more atrocities were committed by the Armenians. After the end of WW1 and beginning of the War of Independence by the Turks, things changed. The invading forces were slowly pushed out of the country. Armenians became vulnerable. Many of them left the country. Many who could not or did not suffered in the hands of the Turks. Several nationalist generals (Pashas they were called) on the Turkish side were involved in forcing the Armenians out of their villages, towns as a retaliation to what they did in the past. So it was another episode of ethnic cleansing, this time being performed by the Turks. In one of these cases, depicted as the "death march" in south-eastern Turkey, no doubt, many Armenians perished.

Nobody should try to excuse anything done by the Turks. Yes, they were fighting to defend their homeland. But it does not mean that everything they did was "halal." What I am saying is that it is not fair to take the story from one side and accept it as if it is the truth, and the only truth. There are always two if not more sides to a story.

The policy of the current Turkish government is (as stated by the Prime Minister R. Tayyib Erdogan on the Charlie Rose's show a couple of weeks ago) is that "let's open all the archives, make all the documents available to a committee of interested historians the both sides agree on. Let them research the topic. We will accept their findings. Was it a genocide? Were there war crimes committed? Who did what and when? Let them document it all." This offer has not found a positive response from the Armenian side.

I know this is getting long but, with respect to researching what happened to the Armenians in Turkey during that time, Turkey offered to sponsor two professors at UCLA in the 1980s, no strings attached. The offer was a multi-million dolar grant (I don't remember the exact figure). The Armenian lobby in the US rallied up and pulled every string to make sure that the University turned down that offer! What are they afraid of? Let the truth come out! It eventually will!