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Why, Even If You Have Nothing To Hide, Government Surveillance Threatens Your Freedom
The Case Against Expanding Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Powers
"I've got nothing to hide, so electronic surveillance doesn't bother me. To the contrary, I'm delighted that the Bush Administration is monitoring calls and electronic traffic on a massive scale, because catching terrorists is far more important that worrying about the government's listening to my phone calls, or reading my emails." So the argument goes. It is a powerful one that has seduced too many people.
Millions of Americans buy this logic, and in accepting it, believe they are doing the right thing for themselves, their family, and their friends, neighbors, community and country. They are sadly wrong. If you accept this argument, you have been badly fooled.
This contention is being bantered about once again, so there is no better time than the present to set thinking people straight. Bush and Cheney want to make permanent unchecked Executive powers to electronically eavesdrop on anyone whom any President feels to be of interest. In August, before the summer recess, Congress enacted the Protect America Act, which provided only temporary approval for the expanding Executive powers under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). These temporary powers expire in February 2008, so Congress is once again addressing the subject.
The FISA Amendments: The Administration Is Seeking Immunity for Miscreants
Because of the way electronic traffic is directed from foreign countries through the United States, the FISA Court had previously rejected requests to intercept certain foreign-person- to-foreign-person communications in the United States. It was a technical problem, arising from the fact that FISA was written before modern data routing had been designed, and FISA thus needed fixing. On this, everyone agreed.
However, when the Bush Administration asked for the necessary fix to FISA, it also requested much more, including immunity under the existing laws for all the telecommunications companies that have been assisting the government in its illegal warrantless surveillance. Significantly, this practice - justified by reference to the "war on terror" - apparently started well before 9/11 under the Bush Administration.
Ironically, in requesting this immunity, the Bush White House has refused to disclose exactly what type of activities Congress would be retroactively immunizing. Preliminary congressional inquiry has revealed that a massive amount of electronic surveillance of Americans has gone on under the Bush/Cheney Administration. For example, one of the telecom giants, Verizon, reported that between January 2005 and September 2007 they provided information on 94,000 occasions. These numbers suggest that Verizon was operating as merely another (and a secret) extension of the federal intelligence establishment.
Many of the companies appear to be violating a number of federal criminal statutes - such as 18 U.S.C. 2511, which requires a warrant for such surveillance and 18 U.S.C. 2702, which prohibits any "entity providing an electronic communication service to the public" from knowingly divulging "to any person or entity the contents of a communication" without a court order.
Currently, the telecoms are not likely to be particularly worried about being prosecuted by the very same government that instructed them to violate the law, and is leading the way in doing so itself.
But what about under the next Administration? The five-year statute of limitations will make them potentially criminally liable after Bush is gone - at least, unless the Bush Administration gains for them retroactive and future immunity. In a new Administration, the telecoms may be viewed not as cooperative patriots, but rather as criminal co-conspirators.
Civil Liability Appears To Be Driving the Immunity Request
Meanwhile, civil liability for these companies is also a realistic prospect. For example, in a San Francisco federal court, AT&T customers are seeking to protect their privacy with actions under laws like 18 U.S.C. 2520, which provides a civil remedy and hefty damages -- ranging up to $10,000 per day per violation. Since it is possible that, over five-plus years, there have been tens upon tens of thousands of such violations, the, if liable telecoms could be looking at hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars of damages.
The Bush Administration clearly wants to help its partners in crime; it also wants to avoid accountability for what it has done and is still doing. If the civil litigation proceeds - and one judge already ruled that the "state secrets" privilege does not prevent the plaintiffs from going forward - the Bush Administration faces the risk of a federal court's forcing it to disclose its unsavory surveillance activities.
Privacy advocates are horrified at the prospect of Congress's potentially protecting this activity through immunity legislation. Yet, in sharp contrast, most people could care less. Indeed few people seem to care about their loss of privacy, notwithstanding the fact that, like an invisible pollutant to our air or water, it is increasingly eroding our freedom. Unfortunately, it seems that the invasion of our privacy, like the destruction of our atmosphere, may be tolerated until it is too late to fix it.
One of the leading causes of both problems is ignorance. Privacy is a highly complex issue, so people easily accept the claims of those who assert that, if you are not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to be concerned about government surveillance, and if you are, you have no right to privacy to break the law.
Understanding the Misunderstanding about Privacy
For several years I have been reading the work of George Washington University Law School Professor Daniel J. Solove, who writes extensively about privacy in the context of contemporary digital technology. The current apathy about government surveillance brought to mind his essay "'I've Got Nothing To Hide' And Other Misunderstandings of Privacy."
Professor Solove's deconstruction of the "I've got nothing to hide" position, and related justifications for government surveillance, is the best brief analysis of this issue I have found. These arguments are not easy to zap because, once they are on the table, they can set the terms of the argument. As Solove explains, "the problem with the nothing to hide argument is with its underlying assumption that privacy is about hiding bad things." He warns, "Agreeing with this assumption concedes far too much ground and leads to an unproductive discussion of information people would likely want or not want to hide." Solove's bottom line is that this argument "myopically views privacy as a form of concealment or secrecy."
In his work, Solove addresses the reality that privacy problems differ: Not all are equal; some are more harmful than others. Most importantly, he writes, "to understand privacy, we must conceptualize it and its value more pluralistically." Through several years of work, Solove has developed a more nuanced concept of privacy that rebuts the idea that there is a "one-size-fits-all conception of privacy."
The concept of "privacy" encompasses many ideas relating to the proper and improper use and abuse of information about people within society. Privacy protects information not only because it would cause others to think less of the person at issue, but also simply to give us all breathing room: "Society involves a great deal of friction," Solove writes, "and we are constantly clashing with each other. Part of what makes a society a good place in which to live is the extent to which it allows people freedom from the intrusiveness of others. A society without privacy protection would be suffocation, and it might not be a place in which most would want to live."
Professor Solove's work - much of which he makes available online - helps clarify thinking about privacy in its fuller context, and helps explain what is wrong with reductive dismissals of privacy using the mantra, "I've got nothing to hide." Before rushing to give the Bush Administration more ways to invade our privacy, not to mention absolving those who have confederated with him to engage in the most massive invasion of America privacy ever, members of Congress should look at Solove's work. Too many of them have no idea what privacy is all about, and grossly underestimate the value of this complex and essential concept.
John W. Dean, a FindLaw columnist, is a former counsel to the president.
© 2007 FindLaw.com
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69 Comments so far
Show AllBig Brother...
Is alive and well.
The Party knows what you are doing. The Party knows what you are thinking.
Conform.
Consume.
War is Peace.
Slavery is Freedom.
Obey the State.
(any of you who think I am being dramatic... step outside and look for a CCTV cam. And wave. Big Brother IS watching.)
I think I would be prefer to be monitored in the future by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, than by Rudolph Giuliani or Fred Thompson. There's just something about those prosecutor types (either real or on TV) that gives me the creeps.
We should help support Senator Dodd, who said yesterday that he will issue a hold on the 'compromise(d)' FISA legislation. When it was suggested that the Senate will ignore his hold, he is promising to Filibuster. That's the way to do it.
The great powers aren't so worried about the masses now. It is the unpleasant very near future when the full impact of these laws can no longer be ignored that they want to be prepared for. When passification ends.
Meg: Look up Microwave Area Denial system.
I'm suing these bastards. The " click-click " and other interference on my phone since the klan boy took office is felony assault, and franklly justice demands the all of the assets of ATT and the evil bush dynasty be mine. And there is no civilized argument against that-any disagreement is more assault on my sovereignty.
Thank you, and yes, I will celebrate this in a big way.
"Ironically, in requesting this immunity, the Bush White House has refused to disclose exactly what type of activities Congress would be retroactively immunizing."
For those who have nothing to hide, this Administration's refusal to disclose its activity to Congress should raise a red flag; after all, according to the U.S. Constitution, Congress is a co-equal branch of this government......or at least it was until decider Bush took office.
thank you for your thoughtful article and for introducing proffessor Solove's work to me.
"I think I would be prefer to be monitored in the future by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, than by Rudolph Giuliani or Fred Thompson."
Since neither Obama nor Clinton appear to think that such spying is grounds for impeachment, I don't trust either of them either.
The "nothing to hide" argument is based on the naive assumption that the cops and federal government agents are the "good guys." What about when the government has been taken over by a criminal fascist syndicate like BushCo?
I wonder if the TASER'd student at the University of Florida had nothing to hide? And why did he alone have government MIBs standing behind him signalling to cut the mike?
Hey, wait a minute! Does this mean the government will be able to tap into corporate phone calls and hear conversations like the ones where electricity "providers" like Enron was conspiring to defraud the residents of California?
Maybe some good can come out of this once this power gets into the hands of the "right" people.
(And maybe pigs will grow wings and fly!)
PCFD: Theres a lab working on avian/porcine hybrids right now...
Like the dot-com bubble that preceded it, the current disaster bubble, or as it has sometimes been called -- the homeland security industry -- is growing, and inflating, exponentially. As an example, in a remarkably short time (even before September 11th) in Northern Virginia, in the suburbs of Washington D.C., innocuous buildings housing start-ups and incubator companies have sprung-up -- most designing and developing terrorist-catching technology, or storing data, and packaging it for sale to the Department of Homeland Security or the Pentagon.
With all the data being created, from phone logs, wiretapping, financial records, mail, surveillance cameras (about 30 million in the U.S., at last count), web surfing (yes, they know you read and/or contribute here), the government is drowning in data. This has spawned another massive market in information management and data mining, as well as software that makers claim is able to "connect the dots", in this array of numbers and words, that will allow for the pinpointing of "suspicious activity".
The disaster industry may very well be approaching dot-com levels of profit, but it generally has much higher levels of discretion. For the most part, disaster capitalists avoid the media, play-down their accumulating wealth, and aren't the braggarts we were accustomed to seeing during the dot-com bubble.
I'm afraid we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. It's a frightening era we're being taken into.
I would like to suggest that turn-about is fair play. If you have nothing to hide, then neither does the Bush administration. So open up those government communications to us all -- they're our employees, after all.
Here's a direct link to Daniel Solov's "I've Got Nothing to Hide": http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID998565_code249137.pdf?abstractid=998565&mirid=1
It's a PDF file.
But all sarcasm aside, from the standpoint of having nothing to hide, I certainly do if you dig deeply enough, and furthermore you never know what a government will decide is important or "bad" in the future. It could be a book you're discussing with a fellow reader that somebody in power decides is seditious. It could be you're confiding in somebody about a co-worker who drives you nuts who then becomes president or vice president (something I can imagine doing if I'd worked around GW).
While I might discuss problems about my gall bladder with a physician, for instance, why would an utter stranger in the government believe s/he has a right to learn this information? Or who my friends and acquaintances are? Who I call, who I write or email?
While I appreciate Solov's exploration of what privacy means, it's simpler to me. In the context of electronic surveillance, my thoughts and concerns are mine to share with whom I choose. They are not the property of the government for any reason. If someone thinks I'm breaking the law, then let them issue a warrant with probable cause to begin scrutinizing my communications.
Daniel David October 19th, 2007 2:48 pm
"I think I would be prefer to be monitored in the future by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, than by Rudolph Giuliani or Fred Thompson. There's just something about those prosecutor types (either real or on TV) that gives me the creeps."
No privacy is no privacy, regardless of the letter after the President's name. I'm a Green, and I wouldn't trust my own party to monitor me, because absolute power corrupts absolutely. The corrupting effect of power knows no skin color, gender, class, religion, or ideology.
Yeah, transparency for the public and secrecy for the government.
Way to go, congress.
Yes, we should all be fighting tooth and nail to keep any government out of our lives. But, let's face it - we're talking about being spied on by the Keystone Cops whose only agenda is to empty the planet's pocketbook by any means necessary. Which, in their case, is via bomb and bullet, because, as a group, they are all too collectively dim to steal any other way.
Unchecked illegal super-spying for seven years and we got... no anthrax killer, no terrorists caught, no terror plots thwarted, no sleeper cells unearthed, no web of terror financing shut down, no Osama or, apparently, not one of his hundreds of family and friends. Except the friggin bodyguard, or driver, or gardener or whatever.
What else they got? Militant librarians, scary mothers at recruitment centers, Quakers, Christians for Peace, various "hippie" anti-anythingers - really, it's hard to fear Big Brother if he's basically retarded and being inundated with an impossible to analyze mountain of info per minute on top of it.
Wiretapping and reading mail may or may not be useful in catching foreign terrorists - the current government won't give us any evidence for or against.
But - it's well documented that this kind of surveillance is necessary to break up criminal conspiracies, such as organized crime and corporate crime. We're not going to get rid of covert surveillance entirely. It will remain a part of the never-ending balancing act between freedom and justice.
The problems occured when surveillance is used against non-criminal conspiracies... Labor unions, Martin Luther King, Vietnam war opponents, opposition candidates.
Where I live, a citizens' group has organized to force a big defense contractor to open its records about carcinogenic chemicals it's been dumping in our groundwater for decades.
They're not doing anything illegal, but it's very easy to imagine a scenario where the corporation alleges that the activists are "planning something"... against a plant vital to our national security. Would the FBI please "look into it?"
Another local group opposes the construction of new liquid natural gas terminal in a populated area. Gee, that's another National Security issue, right?. Would the FBI please "look into it?"
Before you know it, corporation attorneys would be gettng transcripts of every conversation and email between every member of every citizens group in the county. Is that fair? No? Then it shouldn't be legal.
Perhaps you can find local examples in your area that would appeal to your neighbors' sense of justice.
Tyranny always benefits a ruling class, not just the tyrant. Surveillance is a power that will certainly be abused on behalf of the powerful and the connected.
Enemy Combatant,
Enemy of the State,
Political Enemy,
... who decides?
jjohnjj: Yeah, the FBI were REAL competent at catching the Anthrax mailer...
Galen, freightening stuff at that link. Maybe its coming sooner than I thought. Mercy me.
Not only have out civil liberties been diluted and/or erased but every time this band of bandits instigates a new law to protect us poor unfortunates somebody somehwere is making money from it. It costs a real bundle to feel 'safe'. Now you have to give a history of yourself just to fly. I have nothing to hide (except internet participation) but I don't think I will be flying anymore. Next they will be asing for a complete history just to buy gas. Then I won't be driving anymore. Need everything just to stay warm this winter....
By the way, does anyone here notice another double standard? Big Entertainment/Telecom can sue its customers but slowly more laws are being put to shield them from getting brought to justice by pissed off customers. GOD should cleanse this nation completely if it's not busy fucking around like Zeus !
ALso, notice that the Libertarian Party and faux "small government conservatives" are AWFULLY SILENT about it. Of course, they wouldn't want to lose the money their getting from this RIGGED "capitalism". Now if we can get real Libertarians who are ready to stand up to and ABOLISH the NSA, DEA, FBI, FCC, CIA, Corporate Welfare, Federal Reserve, Big Military, warfare, etc …
"They're not doing anything illegal, but it's very easy to imagine a scenario where the corporation alleges that the activists are planning something illegal… against a plant vital to our national security. Would the FBI please "look into it?""
This has always been the business strategy, from the Haymarket demonstrations through Vietnam into the present. To be on the side of the working class is always subversive.
It would be a disaster if the people who say they have nothing to lose, as they lose their civil rights, are doing it to even out the playing field with others they think deserve to come down a notch or two. Indulge me here:
It seems that there is such a large gap, and getting larger by the day, between those who have and those who have not, but who work an awful lot.
We see those who are already suffering on TV on the COPS program, where the poor slobs get thrown on the ground or against the police car and handcuffed. They are the "stars" if you will that make money for the advertisers, and they haven't even been found guilty of anything! What's wrong with this picture? Nothing, say the haves, because it doesn't affect them or the people they know and love. Now the opposite is happening, as the haves are being spied on, because who would care to spy on the poor and downtrodden? And what's wrong with that picture? Nothing, say the have nots.
The answer is that when you protect the power of others, you protect your own. Let's all give a sh_t! So Mr. Dean and others, would you please write a scathing, but well-thought out article about the COPS program, and why it is bad for all of us in this society?
Privacy is the reverse of what governments want. Rather than us being opaque to them and them being transparent to us, they want to be opaque to us and us transparent to them. That's the ideal George Orwell illustrated in "1984".
Mr. Dean, Well put. Flip that frame over:
ask, 'What is it Bush/Cheney have to hide'?
The murderers in the Whitehouse and their puppets are not the owners of 'framed questions', We the People must begin asking them as well.
Oct. 2004: Little Brother: "Hey! Dickie Boy! We have taken the right to tap phones and read email. How about if we use that ability and find out who is campaigning for Kerry? We could have our workers call them and tie up their phone lines when they are making campaign calls to remind Dems to get out and vote! Good idea?"
Dickie Boy: "Wow, Little Brother, I think you've got something there. I think that might help us get one-up on the Dems."
Little Brother: "Let's think of other ways we could use this new 'anti-terrorism' power we now have!"
Little Brother: "How about if we find out who is frequenting those traitorous liberal websites! We could put them on no-fly lists and give them some real head-aches! They think they are unhappy with us now! Just wait til we're done with them!" (Did you know that Senator Kennedy was on the no-fly list for awhile???!!!)
Dickie Boy: "I think you've got something there, Brother!"
Little Brother: "He-he-he-he (smirking)! We could find out who is having affairs and let their wives know! That's immoral anyway, so what's the harm in it? And when the s _ _ _ hits the fan, we can just round them all up and put them away! It'll be easy enough to find out who's with us and who's against us; who's evil and who's good, right, Dickie?"
Dickie Boy: "Yessiree! Now you're talking, BIG Brother!"
Get the picture?
You better start reading "The Cunning of History" by Richard L Rubenstein. Its all too easy.
If I thought there was a likelihood that some government agency was monitoring my electronic activities, I would try to jerk them around as much as possible. I would encrypt a certain file, delete it but not scour it off the hard drive completely, and make sinister references to it through emails, forum postings and whatnot. The schmucks would have to go to all the trouble of seizing my hard drive and decrypting the file just to discover that it contained a detailed, extensive episode guide to the "Donny & Marie" show.
Ming: Long before they found the data on your hard drive, you would be dead. Or insane. Or just...missing.
I spent part of the summer in Pakistan. I bought some carpets when I was there. A couple of days ago my friends, Naseem and Rasheed, two brothers who own a carpet shop in the South Market in Rawalpindi, called me to see if I was still interested in the fine, room sized Afghani piece I had asked them to hold for me. I am legitimately concerned that getting a call from the market in Rawalpindi may have put me on some sort of watch list.
Incidentally, I was in Pakistan when Barack Obama announced that he would bomb Pakistan if he felt like it if he were President. Nice headline to discover when you go downstairs to the lobby of your hotel in Skardu, Pakistan, which was my experience. Don't these people think at all? It's like Pakistan is a cartoon place or something to the guy.
In an unrelated matter, I just read that several Air Force commanders were relieved of duty over the recent incident where some live H-bombs were flown over the U.S. accidentally in a B-52.
This makes me wonder why no one was disciplined for the breakdown that allowed hijacked airplanes to fly into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9/11? Surely that is a more serious failure.
I cannot tell you how many people I know, both sides of the political spectrum, male and female, black, white, purple....have said to me, "I have nothing to hide, who cares?" They just don't get it. They just don't care. Now take away Britney news, Monday Night Football, or American Idol, then they'd be ready for war.
The powers that be know this fact all too well.
Thomas J. Comer
Heavyrunner: 9/11 happened exactly the way it was supposed to.
John Dean is right on! He ought to know - - he got a first hand view of the very kind of Constitutional abrogation against which he speaks when he was a part of the Nixon cabal. And galen is right on in his analysis of what can come next as well. (This is all that needs to be said)
excellent observation about how the simple minded give up their rights.
Let us not forget that the constitutional rights we have are to protect US FROM the Government. Thus Privacy.
VA Green,
You're right, of course, that no monitoring is better than being monitored by Republicans, Democrats or even by Greens. I was being facetious, in part, about preferring the monitoring by Barack or Hillary over Rudy or Fred. I was also admitting, in part, that once these things have been started, they might not ever be completely eliminated, even under Democrats. I see the Dems as an improvement over the GOP, but even I don't go so far as to guarantee they wouldn't ever spy. I wish I could, but I think America is sadly past that point in any post-9/11 scenario. Even with Democrats.
The Right to Privacy is everything's right.
Everything needs some private time to relax and repair - this is necessary for life itself. Doubtless the Party of Death will disagree.
The slippery slope. Take note that security employees of government contractors can also gain access to your phone records for their own ends, as I've come to experience first hand. Does anyone actually think that only the "government" will eavesdrop and that it won't be terribly abused by individuals working for the government?
And what Bush and his criminal gang can also inquire about is your financial situation. You can't go abroad if they don't want you to and can freeze your bank account, property, etc. Forget about hiding any money unless you are a CEO or big time government corporate ally. All of your assets can be taken away at Bush's discretion. The ability of this criminal administration to look into your bank account, credit cards, investments, health, all background is a complete travesty. Our American right to liberty and justice has been seriously breached. I don't wan't anyone to look into any of my private calls, etc. Period.
I wouldn't read too much into it just yet. It's the direction this is going, the future vector, that I'm most worried about. Someone once asked me: Why are YOU worried? Has your life changed?
I answered: No, I've been a loose canon for over a decade and the government has never bothered me.
But our rights are guaranteed by systematic law and procedure, not by the whimsy of individual autocrats. It may be just fun and games with the Shrub. But I can't see far enough into the future -- or at least I won't admit it -- to imagine how a leader a decade from now might leverage his new-found executive strengths.
I'm not principally opposed to the idea of a benevolent dictator. I think I'd make a pretty good one myself. But I can't say the same for the next guy.
Maybe a way to counter those opposed to holding telecommunication companies accountable would be to grant immunity only back to 9/11. Before that there is no "we're at war" defence. It could specifically redress that before 9/11 the prevailing law holds. This would highlight some criminal activity of this government without challenging those whose safety concerns are top priority.
But what I see as the real threat is even after Bush leaves the next president will seemingly have the right to first spy on you, declare you an enemy combatant, detain you and deny you access to representation without the possibility of ever being a free man or woman again; all without judicial oversight. It's there in the Military Commissions Act. It will start small at first with criminals. But as time goes on more and more actions not normally considered criminal will be redefined, (it's happening already). Some leaders in my community want to make refusing to hookup to the local sewer system a felony. The next thing you know somebody you know will be picked-up... Not too hard to imagine.
There are two reasons for not spying on ALL the people. One and the most important is that it violates human rights.
Two and most insidious, is the complete waste and counterproductive effect of having everyone tip toeing around trying to spy or to avoid becoming the subject of investigation.
It is estimated that 70% of the East German population was getting some inducement to spy on everyone else. Even with the use of technology the waste of resources would be crippling to any economy and social system.
TAKE it from the former goldwate protege,don't let big gov guys disquised as conservatives redefine civil liberties in plain view.the founders risked the bill of rights,because tyranny is a greater evil.truth be told,we don't have many affirmative rights to begin with.period.
I am not worried by what I have nothing to hide. I worry about what can be reconstructed, manipulated, fabricated, as in the Forrest Gumph movie, to appear to be real as opposed to reality.
#
Ming The Merciful October 19th, 2007 7:39 pm
"If I thought there was a likelihood that some government agency was monitoring my electronic activities, I would try to jerk them around as much as possible. I would encrypt a certain file, delete it but not scour it off the hard drive completely, and make sinister references to it through emails, forum postings and whatnot. The schmucks would have to go to all the trouble of seizing my hard drive and decrypting the file just to discover that it contained a detailed, extensive episode guide to the "Donny & Marie" show."
And what if they didn't find your little trick amusing? Suppose to teach you a lesson that they decide to declare you an enemy combatant and lock you up for years in a military brig without ever filing charges against you. Think it can't happen? It already did to Jose Padilla.
Lobo Gris
If they want to invade my privacy, then I should be able to invade theirs. I want to see all the secret dealings the USI government has made with the energy companies. The minutes of the Iraqi War Generals meetings. I want George Bushes telephone tapped and broadcast live on radio, so there is no secrets between the public and George. If their is to be no privacy, then lets have the all the details on the secret deals between congress members and their major donation providers. It is essential that the public know for sure that their representatives are not ruthlessly requesting money and being indifferent to the sufferings and requirements for help of the general public. It may be important to know who is against the Iraqi war, which must be nearly everyone by now, so why bother counting, but its even more important to concentrate on those dangerous people who have taken up the reigns of power and money, who have so much capacity to damage. Lets all spy on them first, and make sure they aren't all traitors.
"But - it's well documented that this kind of surveillance is necessary to break up criminal conspiracies, such as organized crime and corporate crime."
My grandfather was in the mafia. He killed a couple of people, ran some moonshine. Seems to pale in comparison with with the hundreds of thousands of innocents this admin has killed , or the billions they have misappropriated.
Who are the real organised criminals?
" Daniel David October 19th, 2007 2:48 pm
I think I would be prefer to be monitored in the future by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, than by Rudolph Giuliani or Fred Thompson."
This is exactly the problem. Too many people believe that Republican crimes are acceptable with a capital D appended. Too often, those same people lecture to the rest of us that no other choices are valid.
I, and others with at least an elementary understanding of liberty, refuse.
I find it *very* interesting that Cheney has banned records being kept of who visits him at his office. His 'guest book' has now been either declared Top Secret, or just abandoned altogether.
This is, -of course, entirely in the voting public's best interest!
After all, if we learned what disgusting tricks Cheney *really* gets up to in his little scorpion's nest, we might never sleep again?
Knowledge is power:
We need to keep ourselves informed, about how the government is kept informed by those who are informing themselves, by informing on us, about *our* information on *their* information-gathering formations, thus formulating and formally forming, -in good formation, formulas which ... ...
...Damn, I think I'm getting one of my 'Kafka headaches' again!
[FK suffered frequent migraines and insomnia].
_______________________________
~ Left to their own devices, narrow-minded government officials caught up in the machinations of rogue-government departments get up to all sorts of stale, spiteful, mean-minded, pettifogging activities, - some of which are very harmful to we, -the citizens, whilst other duties just keep them *apparently* busy, as they fritter away their empty, meaningless lives, in stifling and sterile daily drudgery...
And yes, indubitably, -a handful of drones are employed to read all our posts here, and elsewhere. [-Hi guys!-] and sometimes they will feel very 'challenged' by the things we write, but other times will (secretly) agree with us, even though they would never dare admit that to their bosses!
We must really cause a lot of disappointment to such government spies, that we here at Common Dreams don't more often discuss how to make 'dirty bombs' from weapons-grade peanut butter, ~ or plot devilish plans to hijack shopping trolleys and threaten to overthrow the government by ramming them (at a brisk walking pace) into the side of Mount Rushmore! :)
But whilst remaining aware of such denizens of the graveyard, we didn't ought to get overly daunted by their dark, funereal veils, -their inane cloaks and daggers, or we could become stultified and fail to act.
Let's never forget that we ostensibly wear the rainbow garb, -a coat of many colors, and need to *celebrate* life, - even whilst working to challenge and thwart / undermine the 'MIB mentality' which is sooooo anti-life...
Personally I refuse to be sucked into their gray and morbid little world. As Buddha observed: "Even one little candle can illumine a lot of darkness", - whilst Christ advised, "Let the dead bury the dead."
The more light we can generate, the less their 'mortuary mentality' can becloud either us, or this otherwise beautiful little planet.