PJD: You would prefer genocidal feminine psychopath in the pay of the military industrial complex?

Except From The Progressive -- Gore Vidal interview by David Barsamian (August 2006 Issue)

Q: Talk about the role of the opposition party, the Democrats.

Vidal: It isn't an opposition party. I have been saying for the last thousand years that the United States has only one party—the property party. It's the party of big corporations, the party of money. It has two right wings; one is Democrat and the other is Republican.

Q: What can people do to energize democracy?

Vidal: The tactic would be to go after smaller offices, state by state, school board, sheriff, state legislatures. You can turn them around and that doesn't take much of anything. Take back everything at the grassroots, starting with state legislatures. That's what Madison always said. I'd like to see a revival of state legislatures, in which I am a true Jeffersonian.

Q: Do you see any developments on the horizon that might suggest an alternative?

Vidal: Newton's Third Law. I hope that law is still working. American laws don't work, but at least the laws of physics might work. And the Third Law is: There is no action without reaction. There should be a great deal of reaction to the total incompetence of this Administration. It's going to take two or three generations to recover what we had as of twenty years ago.

End of Interview

"Multinational corporations have become the governing institutions – determining for us how our food is grown and distributed, how we heat and light our homes, what poisons we breathe, drink and eat. Giant corporations largely decide what controversies get attention, how wealth is shared and distributed, what solutions are acceptable, who gets elected to public office and how the United States treats other nations. Citizens have lost our authority over the fundamental decisions that affect our lives. We are defined as "consumers," left to choose between paper or plastic at the grocery store. We think it is time for this to change." (from http://www.duhc.org/)

See How Democracy Unlimited of Humboldt County has challenged multinational corporations at the grassroots level -- and won. As Mr. Vidal said, and it's been expressed repeatedly by others, such as Thom Hartmann, our only hope of taking our country back is through the grassroots level. It will not happen through the federal or state level (yet). All good things start small. Adopt this as your philosophy.

Clinton is a military whore!?!? What a shocker!

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Dem - Repub, no difference, just different sides of the same coin - MIC for ever until China calls in the debt after we nuke Iran and it all comes crashing down. Better learn Chinese all you younger people.

Ms. Heckman's points are well-taken.

I know it is easy to do when we men (and women too?) get angry, but in our criticism of Ms. Clinton, misoginistic remarks like "Whore" or "warrior queen" are not appropriate.

Kathy Heckman: What word would you use to describe a woman who lays on her back for money?

Zoya: Any bets that they will dismantle the Halliburton built 'detention facilities'? Or prosecute the mercenary killers of Blackwater?

Didn't think so.

The MIC (k-e-y m-o-u-s-e) is not going to sit idly by and let the golden opportunity of bombing the living crap out of another innocent country to pass them by. War is good for their bottom line, uses up excess inventory, spurs development of new and bloodier ways to turn children into hamburger, and supports the economy of the Inbred States of Imbecilia.

And Bushco is prepared to meet any mass public anti-war protest head on. The afore mentioned Halliburton camps, Blackwater goons and Microwave Area Denial systems are ready to go. New Orleans was just a (war) god-sent test case.

If the choice in November 2008 is Hillary Clinton or a Republican, I'm going with the Republican. With a Republican as President, we will at least get some housecleaning in the Democratic Party. With Hillary Clinton as President, we get nothing except a continuation of the Bush administration.

RichM,

I'm beginning to think that the more you take it upon yourself to put labels on Daniel David and re-explain to folks here what he is "saying", the more you're telling your readers you believe they're all too dumb to "get it" without your indispensable help.

I think they might have already understood that I indeed do believe that events will keep happening, and that having Democrats in control is preferable to having Republicans in control.

Free Quark: Oh goodie. A real live Quisling. I didn't think there were any of you left. No doubt you would've thought Marshall Petain was a good choice for Vichy France too. I'm sure you would've also supported 'Lord Haw-haw' in England at the same time.

Should your dream come to pass, and the Republicans retain control of the US govermnent, I will look forward to you seeing your child off, heading for the insane meatgrinder of the Middle East conflict.

Oh wait... Hillary suppored the Kyl-Leibermann amendment that Bushco will no doubtedly use to nuke Iran.

Won't that be a feather in the Republican cap?

I'd like to get a "Challenge Hillary Clinton" campaign going... stickers in every city and populous area, to raise the sentiment that we CAN challenge inevitably. Subversive messages that you'd see at the crosswalk or on a stop sign driving to and fro work.

Contact me through my website if you're interested or think it could be effective.

To Kathy's comment about using the term "whore":

I called Condi Rice a Warho in my one design. You have to see it to get it, but plenty of people have called it brilliant, and I've had discussions with those offended as well. But if no one ever disagrees with what you're saying, you're never saying anything. Much as I'd love to fittingly describe Hillary as "Horporate", that's not really going to change any minds. Although I totally understand where progressives are coming from, and I don't think it's "the other side" calling her a whore. Using fancy intelligent rhetoric can get tiring! Sometimes it's a bit easier to just call something as it is. People GET my Warho design for exactly that reason. It is what it is, no intellectual noodling required. And what, pray tell, is Hillary doing with moneyed interests? The metaphor is just too spot-on...

Peace czar: Amen, brother. Amen.

Let's get the spotlight on this sad reality ---
and try to get the candidates to shun contributions from the MIIC . . . .

Otherwise, we're simply voting for the next war --- !!!

Hillary Clinton is a real militant warmonger unlike her husband who was a bit softer and not as neocon. Wall Street backs her because she is for selling out American jobs to the lowest bidders.

Vote Democrat, vote war.

Disgusting.

America is likely to have a choice next year: a bellicose ally of the military-industrial complex (Clinton) or a Republican neo-con. I am glad we have a democracy that allows voters to choose every four years.

GOD DAMNIT, POSTERS! WAKE UP AND ORGANIZE BEHIND THIS GUY AND QUIT YOUR FUCKING NIT-PICKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.dennis4president.com/home/

Um, yay?

Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman, General Dynamics and Raytheon, your public servants. We're punch bitches for these mega-corps, they make SPECTRE in "Dr. No" look like the Salvation Army. Clinton is a working girl obedient to her pimp, no way in hell she's ever held office without dutiful respect and subservience.

The arms industry is excited about their the prospects of having a female whore in the white house for a change, they've tired of their boy toys.

I am disgusted and appalled by the progressive purists who are determined to drag down Hillary's historic campaign.

You're completely ignoring inconvenient truths about H. Clinton's administration, such as the assurance that Gitmo detainees will have a chicken and two kinds of fruit in every pot!

Wall Street and the defense industry are supporting Mrs. Clinton? (With SOME of their dollars, anyway?)

Good!!!!!

If they weren't, they'd be supporting Giuliani, Romney, or Thompson with those same dollars.

You have two choices.

You can vote for the money party (doesn't matter which flavor, they're both the same).

Or you can take your country back, rewrite the contitution for the benefit of living human beings (NOT corporations!), arrest, try and punish those guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, dismantle your perverse death machine and it's mercenary parasites, and stop invading other nations trying to steal a supply of steadily dwindling resources.

If you vote for the Dems, you will go to war. If you vote Republican, you will go to war. The lesser of two evils is still evil. And small evils have a nasty habit of metasticising into great evils. The 'small' evil of not opposing the Supreme Court appointment of Bush to the Whitehouse has led to the 'great' evil of two countries invaded and smashed, the largets deficit in the history of your nation, an economy in shambles, and a THIRD war being threatened that could easily become the single defining end to technological civilization on this planet.

America, it's time to put on your big girl panties and deal with it.

As my daddy once told me :"If you want to see where a person's loyalties lie, follow the money."

Same money as Bush - What a surprise! And we thought she was making a mistake when she voted for war. She was just setting up her defense industry financing.

Her Wal-Mart outsourcing credentials appear to be good enough for Wall Street.

This backing does not assure her of winning anything other than the nomination, however. (you thought the nomination result is not preordained? Dream on.)

This defense money is the same source that poured money into Kerry's coffers early so he could get the early jump on all the other stronger contenders. I could be wrong but it seemed to me at the time the money was backing the only candidate sure to lose to Bush. Bush was so unpopular that Kerry was surprisingly strong. Enter the Swift-boats; check where that money came from. Kerry still almost was declared winner except for a little Ohio skullduggery. He then followed orders and caved in (sound familiar) without giving claims of voter fraud time to be investigated as he had promised - ("I'll hang in there, if any questions arise."

The money is sure that she cannot win the presidency so watch where the money goes after she is officially the "warrior princess-to-be).

GALEN: Some good points!

Here's the interesting thing, take a look at these statistics (as cited by the article): "So far, Mrs Clinton has received $52,600 in contributions from individual arms industry employees." That is absolute CHUMP change to the defense industry! Think about the inordinate return on those dollars of "investment." Think about the billions being OK'd for new weapons, those that will inevitably rip some innocent women, children, decent men and freedom fighters to bits... meanwhile, as if comedically placed in our midst for not such comic relief, health care for children in the "land of the brave" is viciously cut. I cannot conceive in my wildest imagination of leadership as delinquent in its intended charge as this one, and that's both wings of the same tainted bird!

Funny, I was following a link on a news item that led me to a right wing web site. The comments there used the word 'whore' alot, in conjuntion with Progressives and Democrats. I am not ever going to vote for Hillary, primarily because of privacy and anti-government snooping concerns.

But I don't expect real Progressives (or Democrats) to stoop to using the word 'whore' so consistently when describing Clinton.

There's so many more articulate ways to present anti-Hillary views.

Makes me wonder how many commenters really belong to the other camp.

I'm sure Hillary will reward those in the Military Industrial Complex with a nice little war or two for supporting her candidacy.

Siouxrose: As the gag goes -

'The Mouse kill my freind. So I say death to the Mouse. But I say it from over here.'

As long as corporations are accorded the legal fiction of 'personhood' they will continue to act in their best interests (creating wealth for the shareholder), which is commonly at odds with the best interest of the public (health, welfare, safety...list is TOO long).

At some point there MUST be a discussion on how to break the corporate stanglehold they have on politicians, and hold the same politicians responsible for every law passed that favors the corporations and endagers the public. Corporate PACs must be forcibly and legally disbanded, with criminal prosecution for those members who have acted against the common good and safety.

As for the politicians who accept corporate monies to fund their activities, and who act against the common good, they should be prosecuted as well, and punished according to the severity of the crimes they helped commit. Aiding and abbetting is aiding and abbetting, especially if they profited professionally or personally from eneacting laws that protected corporations from legal prosecution.

Gee, what a surprise.

The answer is not "support Kucinich!" or "damn Hillary the whore!" As president, neither would have any choice except to support the military-industrial complex -- there's too many jobs in too many states at stake; Americans would never permit it.

The only difference here is that Hillary is getting money from them and Kucinich isn't.

The answer is to dismantle the M-I complex. And that's not gonna happen until the empire crashes and the complex crashes with it.

Got that?

It seems that Hillary is to progressives what Giuliani is to the social conservatives. Progressives are expected to vote for Hillary, even though she disagrees with them on virtually all the important issues, because she is from the less conservative party, just as social conservatives are being pressured by corporate elites to vote for Rudy because he is from the less liberal party, even though he disagrees with them on their most important issues.

The chances of electing a non-warmonger this election cycle are remote. We just have to hope that by some miracle that Ms. Warmonger or Mr. Warmonger does not start WWIII before we have some sort of economic collapse or other triggering event that provides an opportunity to implement real change.

Heres a quote for all of you-

Trust in God. But keep your powder dry.

galen,

No, Just "genocidal psychopath in the pay of the military industrial complex" fully describes her just fine.

But, her election will be pretty much the turning point in western history, - the end of the age of enlightment and the start of a new mass-media technology-enabled dark age containing the combined sorrows of feudalism and capitalism. That is, at least until runaway global warming puts us all out of our misery.

Poor, optimistic, Marx; did he get the ultimate synthesis of the materialist dialectic wrong!

The U.S. arms industry/military industrial complex and Israel don't need Republicans anymore, they've got warmonger/pro-war Hillary Clinton!

We still have more votes than they (Mil/Ind/cong/think-tank complex) do. The only questions that remain are: What is our price for our vote? Will we use them appropriatly or lose by selling out or by staying home on lelction day?

It is possible to write in candidates names when the designated choices dohn't please you--think about it.

Poet: Yeah... and how did the last two 'elections' turn out? You may vote... but your votes don't count.

For the unenlightened here is Websters dictionary definition of whore;

1. A female who engages in sexual acts for money.

2. A male who engages in sexual acts for money.

3. A venal or unscrupulous person.

My earlier comment implied a changing of the gender guard in the whoring racket, with emphasis on #3 above.

Have you read the names Bush has been called over the years? one of which has been "war mongering whore", and that is nothing compared to other things he is consistently called. I don't recall reading any comments implying we tone down the rhetoric on Bush, why should Hillary be exempt because she is a woman?

Galen--

At the every least "they" haven't changed "me". Our examples (even in casting a secret ballot) do count and do influence others and it has been proven over and over again that one vote here and there does make a difference in election outcomes.

Galen: Much respect and gratitude for the nod of support. On that same note, and because I had a recent run-in with a college provost disapproving of my Warho design, here's my logic. I will also note that it was particularly disturbing to see a college representative at a liberal arts institution, supposed bastions of free speach to have such a knee-jerk reaction to "warHO". Hyper-politically correctness can be a severe crutch to honest discourse. Anyway, had I written a response:

...If we are talking about racist/sexist implications, let's go beyond the cultural implications of words to the literal consequences of personal choices and actions. Condoleeza Rice, whose actions and complicity in this Administration have resulted in the cultural destruction of Iraq, the death of millions, and the presumed war crimes (e.g rape) against countless women and others. To be a member of a Republican administration that has further disenfranchised countless African-Americans (voter fraud in both elections, severe neglect of New Orleans) and other minorities, as well as threatening a woman's right of choice? Her actions speak volumes to systematic racism and sexism, yet a singular concrete example like my work draws more attention. Is that not, dare I say, more prejudical? But I said "ho", so clearly I'm out of line. All the African-American women in New York who have seen the design must agree. Oh wait-- they laughed with such guilty, cathartic pleasure it was unbecoming a lady. Living in Brooklyn is extremely sheltered. That's my take on real prejudice in society, so just some food for thought.

Or, as the administration coos to each other after a day rife with criticism from the global populace: "Words and criticism will mutilate my body and soul, but clusterbombs preemptive unilateral strikes, and deceitful war profiteering will never hurt me." You should see how that pacifies Cheney. He goes out like a LIGHTBULB with that one!

I keep going on about it, so here's the design I was referring to:

http://www.bleedingheartsclub.com/index_files/Warho.htm

George: Option C - Break up the Union, dismantle the US military death machine, arrest, try, convict all politicians even remotely connected to the wars of aggression in Afhganistan and Iraq, institute massive reparations to all nations for damages caused by global warming, pay massive reparations to Afghanistan and Iraq...

Hey, if I'm going to dream, I'm gonna dream BIG!

Poet: Or if you are Diebold et al. 10,000 votes here, 25,000 there.

Or throwing people off the voter registration lists because they share a name with convicted felon in another state. Or are told that the polling station they are at is incorrect, sent to another one, told it is incorrect, return to the first, only to be told the polls are closed.

Or you have yor brother appoint someone to oversee the recount, invalidate THOUSANDS of legitimate ballots cast in opposition to you, and have your 'Brooks Brother mafia' storm the recount station when you have just enough votes to swing the decision...

Money talks. You can't fight Mammon with words. We the People Inc. must outcompete him.

Galen - "Oh goodie. A real live Quisling. I didn't think there were any of you left. No doubt you would've thought Marshall Petain was a good choice for Vichy France too."

The Vichy among us are the Democrats in Congress. Your argument seems to be: support Marshall Petain in a skirt or else you are a Vichy traitor, which makes no sense at all.

"Should your dream come to pass, and the Republicans retain control of the US govermnent, I will look forward to you seeing your child off, heading for the insane meatgrinder of the Middle East conflict."

American soldiers are going to be dying in the Middle East whichever party is in power. My opinion is that we should allow the neo-conservative movement - which, let's face it, has dominated both major parties ever since Reagan came to power - to go ahead and play itself out. Voting for Vichy Democrats will only delay this process, as we saw during the Clinton years.

Free Quark: The only thing I want to see is another sunrise. And another. And another.

As long as we have whack jobs who listen to their Military Industrial paymasters instead of the people, we are in danger.

Remember the old Scottish maxim: When it's time to pay the piper, the Devil calls the tune.

ezeflyer, point taken

What's wrong with calling Hillary a "Warrior Queen/Princess?" Bet she likes that title. And what's wrong with calling her a whore? Male politicians are called "whores" if they have no integrity and will do anything for money, so why not call Hillary one? There's no "sexism" involved in this case, and it's not referring to a paid sex act.

Which reminds me, the thought of Bill the Lecher in the White House again makes me feel embarrassed for the country.

Daniel David October 19th, 2007 1:10 pm

"Wall Street and the defense industry are supporting Mrs. Clinton? (With SOME of their dollars, anyway?)

Good!!!!!

If they weren't, they'd be supporting Giuliani, Romney, or Thompson with those same dollars."

There's a big difference between saying that the Democrats are the lesser evil and saying that something is OK if the Democrats are doing it.

Quick joke...

Man and woman are in court. Woman is being charged with assault. Judge asks what happened. Woman says man called her a two-bit whore. Judge asks man if he called her that. Man says yes. Judge asks woman what she did next. Woman says she got angry and hit the man. The judge looks at man, who has a huge lump on his head. The judge asks what the woman hit the man with. Woman replies 'My sack of quarters!'

Good point and thanks for the Webster's clarification, rebelnow. Honestly, if Clinton, Rice, or Albright want to be considered lady-like in the least, they might act with the slightest shard of COMPASSION in their actions. Heck, that ain't lady-like, itt's HUMAN-like in my book. Kucinich, Gravel and others know that just by being individuals with integrity and empathy for their fellow man.

***Also... one of my next designs is going to be a robot-like personification of the Military-Industrial-Complex. Sounds weird I know, but it's gonna turn out great and hopefully provide a visually compelling representation of such an abstract, destructive entity. That said, please let me know if I'm missing any of its "components"

pharmaceuticals

CONG (coal/oil/nuclear/gas) energy

Petrochemical agriculture (pesticides, industrial farming, meat industry, etc)

Mass media

weapons manufacturers (everything under the sun)

auto-industry/highway systems (ie. NO mass transit)

And all of this is interconnected. Am I missing anything off the top of my head?

The unfortunate thing about so called democrazy in the United States of Israel. Firstly its about money. Specifically about corporate, military and defense endorsement. Secondly its about herding the sheep. The sheep being those people that vote at the "primaries". These events are akin to the Nurumberg rallies that endorsed Hitler. The biggest loudest raz-a-ma-tazz wins. The careful psychological staging of these events costs money. Its like the bee dance. The best enthusiasm that money-honey can buy wins out.

Where does the money-honey come from? Why it comes from you, the taxpayer. And flows out of the government through the biggest drip feeders, corporate, military and defense. And they use your taxpayer money to buy their candidates, their policies,to get your vote again. When the money-honey becomes massive, the cancer is self feeding, and drains the rest of the nation of life and opposition. For justification and feed resources, weapons deployment and wars must follow, to maintain the international weapon trade.

The only cure is to stop the money-honey dance. Don't vote for any candidate that receives massive defense or military funding. All the means of causing death in the world cannot save you from hell.