Will We Fall For War Vs. Iran?
It would appear, according to news reports, that the hard-liners in the Bush administration, led by the vice president, are pushing for a war with Iran. The tactics are the same. Once you’ve played the fear card to start one war, the second time is easier.
Iran is a threat to American security and freedom. They are trying to build nuclear bombs to use against us. They are already killing Americans in Iraq. They hate us and our freedom. Eliminating the Iranian government and destroying its nuclear facilities is essential to the security of the United States and part of the international war on terror.
Will the shell game work again? I would like to think that it would not, that the American people will not be won over by “war on terror” propaganda, that Congress would not be taken in this time (not even Sen. Hillary Clinton), and that the national media would raise a loud hue and cry against yet another “preemptive war.”
Yet surely the hawks would shout once again that in a “national security emergency” the commander in chief has the power to go to war without authorization from Congress. The president might argue that Gen. David Petraeus approved the attack. Indeed, those on the dark side could even suggest that a presidential election could be “postponed” until the Iranian crisis is over — and like the Iraq crisis, that might be never.
Once you have stolen one and maybe two presidential elections, it’s relatively easy to steal a third, especially as part of the “global war on terror” and a “national security emergency.”
A year ago, I would not have suspected that such a scenario could possibly be taken seriously. I’m not so sure anymore. The claims made for the almost unlimited power of the commander in chief seem to make anything, however bizarre, possible. Despite intense national opposition to the war in Iraq, there are enough “patriotic” cement heads in the country to provide support for such a project.
Cries like “nuke the Iranians before they nuke us” would be heard in the land. It might tip the national election to a Republican candidate — perhaps the 9/11 candidate from New York City — and to a majority of Republicans in Congress.
The president could even hint that such a war was ”the right thing to do,” a conclusion he had reached after a long conversation with God.
There is precious little that those who are opposed to such a war could do. The president, his vice president could assert, is the commander in chief. He has the inherent power to start a war if he deems it necessary for the security of the country. The National Security Council could eavesdrop on opponents to the war, and the FBI could turn up with “national security letters” to probe into the lives of these “security risks.” The pliant Supreme Court, having permitted the president to seize an election on the grounds of equal rights under the law, could easily phony up an argument that Justices Scalia and Thomas and their allies would support.
Perhaps the House could vote a bill of impeachment but there are not enough votes for conviction in the Senate. And the president could dismiss such an action as a violation of his powers as commander in chief.
Certainly Congress could pass a joint resolution now against such a war. But they would need half a dozen Republican senators to support it. That’s not likely to happen. And the president could claim that he has the inherent power to ignore such a resolution.
When it comes to war in this administration, Dick Cheney always gets his way.
Andrew Greeley is a priest in good standing of the Archdiocese of Chicago. for 52 years, a columnist for 40 years, a sociologist for 45 years, a novelist for 28 years, distinguished lecturer at the University of Arizona for 28 , research associate at National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago for 46 years.
© Copyright 2007 Sun-Times News Group
If impeachment proceedings started, momentum would build and the votes would be there. It will, however, take an opposition party to initiate impeachment proceeedings. To date the democrats have proven themselves to be the enabling party, not the opposition party.
The military industrial media complex is funding the 2008 democrat and republican presidential campaigns. Unless a majority of the electorate gets smart quick and supports an anti-war candidate through the primaries and general election, war with Iran and other oil producing Asian nations will continue until the multinational oil companies have extracted the last drop of Asian crude. Asian nations are unlikely to give up their oil without a fight, so this war will likely extend beyond the lifetime of Andrew Greeley and many Common Dreams readers.
Seems like 1935 all over again except now it’s not Germany.
This article actually misses the 3 reasons that the USA will use to justify aggression against Iran.
1. oil (as andersdl points out — though non-Asian oil producers are also a target-the USA backed the military coup against Venezuela’s elected and legitimate leadership in 2002).
2. the country that shall not be named.
3. alleged Iranian support for Iraqi ‘terrorists’.
A President does not have inherent power to start a war. A Fuehrer does.
“Despite intense national oppostion to the war in Iraq, there are enough ‘patriotic’ cement heads in the country to provide support for [an attack upon Iran].”
Is 30% of the electorate enough? Is 51% of the electorate enough? If, as we are constantly being told, it takes 66% of the US Senate to stop a war, shouldn’t it take at least a 66% public approval rating in order to start another one?
And even if a full 99% of mainstream media TV viewers could be whipped and wanked into hysterical, frothing jingoistic fervor for a grand march on to Tehran, will Senator Robert Byrd again be left to stand alone - all alone - on the Senate floor, bemoaning so-called legal technicalities like the text of the US Constitution, when it comes to life and death issues such as declaring war?
Bill from Saginaw
Just another stepping-stone in disaster capitalism and “nation-creating”. (Read Naomi Klein’s brilliant new book titled, The Shock Doctrine. I believe she’s connected all the dots.)
The same type of shock therapy will be practiced on America should Iraq and Iran be counted as success stories.
Would there have been a WWII if the German people had had access to the internet to have found out what was really going on? If Germany was anything like the U.S. today there would have been a lot of people who were well informed but powerless to do anything about the events that carried Hitler to power, just like we do not have any way to influence on the powers to be today. Do not phone,e-mail or write to your Congressmen and women as they are all out to lunch or campaigning for the next election. If anyone who is up for reelection knew that if they supported the war in anyway would not, repeat not, be reelected would they finally get down to business of doing what is right for the U.S.?????
Sorry ANNABELLE, The average Americans by far do not get their news from the internet. Most Americans BY FAR, are totally unaware of what Bush and Cheney are up to. Many of those who are aware don’t protest, they just accept it, and many others like and agree with what Bush is doing, especially the Evangilical breeds. It will be Hitler all over again, in fact, it already is, and the national news media does NOT report it. So get ready for the second coming, ____ only it won’t be Jesus.
Nah. It’s Hillary’s turn to steal the election and start a war. She works for the same crowd, after all. BushClintonBush…Clinton, that fix has been in the works for years.
The White House’s propaganda campaign laying the groundwork for military action against Iran dates back almost six years—to Bush’s 2002 State of the Union address in which he designated Iran as a founding member of the “axis of evil.” Since then, this drumbeat has waxed and waned as other concerns—primarily the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq—have often commanded center stage. Now, with the Bush administration approaching its final year in office, a renewed push and a shorter fuse are increasingly evident. My 3-minute YouTube video entitled “Forewarned Is Forearmed: Bush On Iran” is available HERE. It offers a very brief but deeply troubling chronicle of the president’s public warmongering and demonization of Iran. As has been said before, “the hour is getting late.”
A friend told me he went to his parish priest to discuss how his parish family could come out against the war; so many of them had sons, fathers, husbands, brothers and cousins and so forth, in Iraq, or had been killed or wounded there.
The priest would offer a Mass, but said that the elected officials in Washington were already taking care of voicing opposition to the war, so nobody in his parish needed to make themselves heard. But that is not half as bad as the priests and ministers who preach that we should respect and follow our (bad) leaders.
So it is good to read something an American Catholic priest writes opposing the war and this administration. For many years, priests in Latin America said this (loss of our rights) would be happening to us, and not too many people believed it. They had seen what private armies could do, and billions of dollars poured into making war on the people to support the rich oligarchies. They witnessed the massive slaughter with bombs, and the landmines, secret prisons, and no court proceedings.
Why are not more American priests and American Catholic Nuns calling for an end to war and injustice?
Could it be the real Jesus disciples are the Buddhists Monks?
SATURDAY, OCTOBER 27!
I am an American.
I sit in my living room with the curtains drawn, clutching my shotgun and listening for approaching footsteps of the terrorists.
Surrounded by ammo and guns, shaking and sweating, I wait for the terror bombings that will surely some my way.
With trembling hands I light a cigarette, being sure to keep the lit end cupped so that the terrorists won’t see.
I pray for bush to be re-elected because he’s the only one keeping me safe from the hoardes of evil barbarians that are waiting to get me. Why elect anyone else?
The only light comes from the TV screen with it’s continuous FOX News coverage of war. Man I’m sure glad the war is over there so I’m safe over here.
Why are they waiting to attack Iran? Every day I look up into the sky praying I don’t see the Iranian nukes coming down on me. We’ve got to stop them from building their doomsday weapons!
I’m an American. I’m a Republican. I’m a nut.
As many people have pointed out, the “blowback” of bad outcomes to the US from an attack on Iran could be significant.
The clock is ticking toward the end of the Bush-Cheney administration … and if they decide to attack Iran, they will want to do it before the Bush-Cheney administration leaves office.
Thoughts on these and other factors in the article …
“Will Bush, Cheney attack Iran? When and why?”
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=20093
It seems very likely that the US will bomb Iran, and I agree with Hear Iz Kilroy (are you a WW2 vet?) most Americans are asleep at the wheel (or on their couches) over Iran, just the way Cheney Cabal Inc. want them to be.
The bombing could ignite the entire region, with Iran vengefully retaliating on the US troops and furthering the descent into hell for the US in Iraq. Turkey will most likely invade the Kurdish region, if they haven’t already. Who knows how the Russians, who have vested interest in Iran, will respond. There is a high probability that further attacks of various kinds will be directed on the Israeli’s and we know how they respond to attacks.
Or the bombing will be met with worldwide disapproval, lots of verbal outrage, Iran just takes it on the cheek, for now, and there is no immediate backlash.
Either way the world will see the US as a dangerous, out of control, rogue state (it does already but attacking Iran will cement the perception for the few lingering doubters) and will work to isolate the US, primarily by dumping the dollar.
The only good that would come out of attacking Iran is the greater speed of collapse of a greedy, bloated empire.
Rudy Giuliani constantly promises his audiences that he “will keep America on the offensive in the war on terror.” Shouldn’t we believe he has every intention of doing exactly that?
TheLorax: The fact that the public has moved past 9/11, and is not terrorised by terrorism is something to worry about it. The powers that be will need more political ammunition, more domestic shock & awe. They clearly want to invade Iran, but they need to get more Americans onboard, find some excuse, provocation or justification.
Best guess is that we’ll have another accident to get us onboard, get the draft going again, etc. The question is who the pawn will be. If we don’t have the necessary catalyst, it really become evident just how autonomous our own government is. They’ll go ahead anyway, even though the populace will be like 75%+ against it. Just a small minority of far-right fundamentalists in favor of anything.
They miscalculated with 9/11, thinking it would be the next great Pearl Harbor, to spur the US populace deeply into a massive geopolitical shift, they’d have Americans lining up to serve overseas, it would massively boost the economy, etc. But corrupt ideas can’t really yield anything except a corrupt harvest. They’re probably too corrupt even for imperial ambitions.
Unless ’somehow’ managing to either de-couple the Dollar as Oil/Reserve-Currency, or lynch-pinning an Alliance involving Russia/China/India and the Caspian-states that defeats US Interests leading towards control of those-resources…Iran is safer than most-countries in the ME/NME. [Syria, however, may be ‘next’, with Lebanon-involved]
‘Quo Bono’ is the only real ‘tool’ for such speculation regards tracking these ‘Players, sans Scorecards’. It took a whole lot of ‘hard work’ to fashion Iran into the ‘threat’ it appears to be…and its usefulness as-such (as Diversion and as Enemy/Threat) on the one-hand, and ‘actual losses’ from actually attacking on other-hand, protect it (for now, anyway).
‘Threats’ to Israel, US Troops, American/Western-Interests, etc., from the Enemy Du-Jour of ‘Terrorism’, are needed for the intent to Control/Deny energy-resources in not-just the ME, but the much larger-reserves in the ‘closer to competitors’ Caspian (such competition resulting in both lost-Holdings and mass-development in 3rdWorld, with attendant Climate-disaster). Syria may be a ‘ripe-target’ regards current side-issues of securing profitable-routes to market-locale/refinement/distribution Westward, but the prime-Focus is on keeping that Caspian-carbon ‘undeveloped’ and the area ‘unprofitable’/Chaotic. Unless Iran escapes current-Containments, it serves all-too-well as ‘justification’ for continuing ‘GreatGame’-chessmoves (we can all remember the ‘pained-look’ on Bush Sr. when the USSR ‘fell’ — unless Iran pushes-back, and ‘hard’, all this post-ColdWar posturing/investment is ’smoke&mirror’ hiding true-Intents).
[Or, so “one can hope”, anyway…things ‘Happen’, after-all…]
“I’m just an orphan of World War II, a parent of World War III, if I choose to lie down with the builders of bombs and the vendors of insanity.” John Hartford
October 27!!
Mass strike and boycott!!
Civil disobedience!!!
Last night, PBS Frontline aired “Cheney’s War.”
Telling interview clip w/him from ‘96 where he’s asked what would he have done if Congress failed to approve Operation Free Wealthy Kuwaiti Sheiks? “I would have recommend we proceeded anyway.”
Remember ‘03: the largest protests in world history trigger a decline in the polls. When they hit 54/46 against illegal invasion, Cheneybush speed up their timetable and we’re shocked and awed before we realized what happened. Of course, the MSM continues to falsely reminds us that “we” were “for” the “war” back then, but the truth is, “we” we not.
Bottom line: Cheneybush and their loyal cultists from the RepubliDem Party will, to paraphrase Reese from “The Terminator,” not stop. EVER! They don’t feel emotion. They don’t feel pain. They kill. That’s all they do. AND YOU CAN’T STOP THEM! NOW WHO THE F**K IS IN CHARGE HERE!!!
Paul -
The sad part is that when the triggering incident occurs, the media will hype it up, pictures will be shown, and people will fall in line to believe it. 9/11 already proved that point. People are still in denial and nobody is calling for any new investigations. (The Warren Commission report is enough…er…I mean the 9/11 Commission report is enough)
We should all be alarmed that the so called opposition party is so strongly committed to follow the AIPAC line. Hillary Clinton like McCain and Giuliani is a true believer and a very real menace to us all.
george W. bush, Aug.5, 2004. ”Our enemies are inovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about ways to harm our countrey and our people, and neither do we.”
All good perspectives.
But when and how do we decent folks try to unite ourselves nationally? To bring some clout against the maddness?
I just sent Ciny Sheehan a note (under her Commmon Dreams lead article, “The Fix,” asking her to consider becoming the formal uniter of a defined national political Movement.
Time’s a-wasting. It’s either Cindy or someone like her, that needs to do this - and soon.
Unless, of course, we progressives prefer to remain no more than a modern-day version of Madame DeFarge’s knitting circle.
Notice all that is wrong with Bush’s statement below….
“We’ve got a leader in Iran who has announced that he wants to destroy Israel,” he said.
NOPE, HE NEVER SAID THAT…he actually said ” Israel will be wiped from the map of history” or some such….which seems to me to mean that Israel will fail all by itself…
“So I’ve told people that, if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon.”
Hoe does one go about preventing someone from having knowledge? Murder all the scientists? Lobotomies all around? Travel back in time and shoot Einstien?
BUSH IS STILL TRYING TO LIE THE USA INTO ANOTHER WAR..
CAN THIS EVIL BASTARD EVER SPEAK THE TRUTH??
Bring back the Reds! We need a real debate in this country that goes deeper than right and left. We also need a revolutionary movement in the most clinical sense. That is, a movement hell bent on replacing one regime with another.
Of course what we need is not what we’ll get. This is America. What we will get, if we are damn lucky, in 2008 a so-called Democrat who will do everything possible to steer clear of discussions of the middle class, standard of living, jobs, health care, and all the rest in any meaningful way. There will be lots of feel-good bullet-points that mean nothing, and then when a democrat is in the White House again - probably Hillary Clinton - everyone will go back to falling asleep at the wheel, while we continue to capitalize on the resources of other countries around the world, degrading the environment along the way.
Man, that sounds like hell on Earth, doesn’t it! I’m mad enough to take to the streets, are you? I know American workers are mad as hell too. Are we going to wake the —- up and take back our country or what?
On the other hand, maybe it would be best if there is no election and the whole country goes on lock-down. I KNOW people will take it to the streets then.
Forewarned is forearmed. A draft would be necessary for a war with Iran but it could follow an attack. A draft to fix Iraq would be used for an attack on Iran. the two are linked whichever comes first. Would Bush relinquish control if he attacks Iran?
An old chinese saying about living in interesting times? Well this isn’t interesting … it is scary. Real scary since Bush doesn’t seem to have respect for our constitution.
But can we get Americans to stand up for their own constitution and democracy? We live in scary times. I prefer saying it that way because we should be scared that so many people are not that interested in what is happening. That is why it is so scary. Too many live in disinterest during scary times.
Way to go Greeley, finally speaking out on the insanity, must be nice to be able to afford to sit and think,,,,with the Twinkies running the show, it is to bad the press dosn’t act with a little more intelligence, and blow these Twinkies away, what a joke, endless war,,,great for the contractor families, and freinds of Bush, it is criminal, and against the Constitution, to have war profiteers running the US government. and spending the US treasury without accountablility, on bullshit in foreign lands,bring all troops home for 5 years, spend all money here, for 5 years fix our own problems, like being 43rd on infant mortality, or New Orleans still in shambles, bridges falling in , Electrical substations over 100 years old, using more juice than 3 thousand new power stations, talk about energy waste,,,
Is America really like how you are describing it, or are people just falling back on sarcasm and exaggeration to express frustration?
I do not live in America - and I gave up watching American cable TV news long ago. So I have no idea what those of you who are Americans are living through right now.
1) can people talk freely in public places, without wondering if anyone is listening?
2) how much of what you are responding to is just politcal rhetoric and electioneering, and how much of it is real?
3) are there any concrete examples of experiences you have had that have lead you to believe something is wrong?
Have any of you ever watched the BBC World at War series.
In the first episode there are some Germans talking about what life was like for them in Germany in 1930’s.
A few I recall are:
A lady describing about how her family doctor was leaving her home, and asked her “Do you still want my services?” he was a Jewish man. The lady said, this personal experience was a wakeup call to what was happening around her.
There was a young German man who lived in England, and came home for a short visit, arriving on Sept 3 1939. He said he picked up a newspaper and was shocked at the “tone” of the writting, and said that he made a big mistake coming home. I think he was not able to leave and was drafted into the German army.
A new development has happened recently that may thwart the dasdardly Cheney & Co. - Russia.
According to the Neocon bible, Russia is supposed to be weak and flailing about. The mighty USA is supposed to have spread it’s imperial wings to the middle east to crush and control the evil barbarian Arabs. With the USA’s grand power and wisdom, it would control the oil supply and vanquish Israel’s enemies. It will also plant defensive (right!) missile bases in Poland to keep further control of Russia, Pakistan, China and North Korea.
Ironic, Russia isn’t buying the neocon doctrine, neither is the majority of the world. Russia is defending Iran’s legitimate right to acquire peaceful radioactive power production, despite the demands of “the country that shall not be named” (appologies to locust). It’s probably a good thing that we’re backsliding into the the 50’s world where 2 major super powers don’t like each other. We don’t seem to be able to rely on America’s “democraticly elected representatives”.
If it’s okay to invade all these countries for oil, why aren’t we invading Alberta, Canada? Heck, it’s a lot closer and they are loaded with oil. I doubt Congress would mind - might even throw a couple billion in that direction.
Does the above sound crazy? Well it’s not any crazier than what the US is doing over there right now.
“Madness, all madness.”
“Will We Fall For War Vs. Iran?”
Of course we will, Andrew.
The Republican front runner looks to Podhoretz for his foreign policy. Another prominent Repub candidate wants to double the size of Guantanamo, another sings a pleasant little ditty with the substitute words “Bomb Iran.” No major Dem candidate has ruled out bombing Iran. Bush is a sociopath and a mass-murderer, as is Cheney, and they both want war.
Who, on this earth, is going to stop it?
Tech2…I can tell you this…citizens are afraid. You can feel it in the air. But, Americans have been conditioned to be afraid of one thing or another from very early on. We hid under desks in the 50’s to protect us from A-Bombs. We’re afraid to dress differently than our neighbor. We’re afraid of heart attacks, diabetes, cancer, aids etc. etc. Chomsky has said in his writings that he doesn’t understand what Americans are afraid of. I say, what are they not afraid of? We’re afraid of the sun. We’re afraid of the dark. We’re afraid of communists. We’re afraid to drink tap water. We’re afraid to be alone. Our entire culture is based on fear.
I know of several substantiated stories in which the TSA confiscated reading material and DVDs from luggage at the airport and left notes saying that they did not like the material being read or the DVD being watched.
So, yes..the atmosphere in the American streets has changed and the “fear conditioning” to which we have been subject all our lives is now being put to use by TPTB.
DHS boarded a bus my mother was on in Florida and searched everyone’s belongings and asked for their IDs. No reason, no explanation..and everyone complied..as “Good Germans” do.
alembic two
I am with you 100% about the leadership role Cindy Sheehan can play for the formation of a people’s progressive movement. By now we know who the enemies of peace and the enemies of the people are. We should stop blubbering and start fighting them united under the banner of a PEOPLE’S MOVEMENT. All grassroots movements, left parties and organizations, while maintaining your organizational identities and independence, must join forces in a People’s Movement with a program for: PEACE, IMPEACHMENT,DISARMAMENT, FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE & PUBLIC EDUCATION, RESTORATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, POLITICAL-ECONOMIC-SOCIAL-CULTURAL JUSTICE, SUSTAINABLE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PROTECTION OF PLANET EARTH.
I believe most of the people would go for programs such as the above, whereas the elites of the “two” capitalist parties would not touch them.
We can get the majority if the people see a united
front: A People’s Movement. Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and Evo Morales of Bolivia came to such a conclusion and beat the hell out of their “two” capitalist party system. We can do the same thing because we are the majority and can become the effective governing majority.
Time is precious. Let us get up and move UNTIL VICTORY - HASTA LA VICTORIA !
Vangelaras
ddell413
why bother invading Alberta for the oil?
A US company already bought the oil fields.
Invasion would be redundant
Besides, you think Sunni insurgents are bad, you haven’t messed with an Alberta redneck yet…nor taken into account the nearby Rocky Mountains….think Tora Bora with well armed and whiskey-fueled Canadian cowboys hiding in the foothills
willybill,
“DHS boarded a bus my mother was on in Florida and searched everyone’s belongings and asked for their IDs. No reason, no explanation..and everyone complied..as “Good Germans” do.”
John LeCarre named the Cold War well: very little difference between the Russian and the American Cold Warriors.
Solzhenitsyn wrote that the basic response of every prisoner, when he was first arrested was, “Me? What for?” and at no subsequent point was there any moment when resistance seemed possible. Resist — and then what?
Same response for most of us — this is what we’ve been conditioned for — don’t be one of the troublemakers — it’ll all blow over — don’t exaggerate — don’t be extreme.
Tech2, yes I am also worried that we have fallen into another 1935 situation. Once I goggled “911 mysteries” and “loose change” and revisited the tool that our fearless leaders used to justify their actions. A Bush and a Walker (as in king george’s middle name) ran the security company that handled all security for WTC and an airport from which hijacked planes took off.
The 3rd WTC building that collapsed, just happened to have all the relevant data needed by shareholder lawsuits claims against Enron and Worldcom ripoffs. How convenient!
Now we have an executive order from our president that allows him to eliminate rules of law in the event of another calamity/terrorist attack. We are one “attack” any from a Nazi type of situation the Germans found themselves living through.
Was 911 a terrorist attack? Yes! But who were the real terrorists behind 911?
All just my own humble opinion.
tech2,
It’s probably impossible to adequately compare this situation to pre ww2. There are some similarities many differences. Read the posts at common dreams, I see your original query has been answered really well twice while I’ve been typing this.
Yes we can still talk freely in public places but no one really wants to talk about the situation. friends just change the subject. It’s almost like it’s not “comme ils faut,” but that’s not quite what it is. It’s a violation of this mass conventionality we have here where everyone has to be the same. It’s discomforting. No one wants to be discomforted right now. Everyone’s on edge already.
It’s like there’s this complex difference of opinion about the situation that’s really not complex at all, but is too complex to talk about. I think it’s a self-awareness that we are all complicit in the problem on some level, so talking about it is double edged and is very difficult. There’s a mixture of many people who are completely immersed in the materialism whether naively or otherwise, and they are our friends and family, and ourselves to some degree.
I’m not sure I’m as afraid as the post above discusses, but I’m sure there are many like me who find the death of innocent people under the banner of USA, innocent civilians, and yes innocent military folks, appalling. I don’t want that on my conscience, I don’t want it in my name. That’s a nightmare.
Certainly the authorities will crack down hard on a mass movement, you can see that they’ve been trained to do that. That’s where their salary comes from, keeping the order. People here in NYC that I know basically try to stay out of trouble.
2 and 3 is answered in most of the post you will find at common dreams. There’s a feeling of dread just under the surface of everything happening in this part of the globe right now. It’s out on the streets, it’s the subtext of just about every conversation, it’s uncertainty, it’s a kind of have vs the have nots, it’s the way we live based on the automobile and freeways, it’s the rent, and the work situation. The horrible situation in the educational system which would take a lot of time to explain.
We may not fall for the lies to Iran ploy, but the loyalists will and have.
They will support the abridgement of the constitution in the name of safety, stopping the islamofascists from taking christian nations, fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here or responding to an attack. Bush & Co. have already secured the legislation allowing them to declare martial law thus freeing us from the burdens placed upon us by our Constitution. Individual freedoms must never interfere with the destiny of the homeland. The fatherland oops …
It has sounded like 1930’s Germany since the begining of the Bush error.
The majority of Americans oppose the war and always have; support progressive programs and feel powerless. We need a campaign which people sill see as able to win. One that can not be marginalized by bumper stickers.
The Lorax, I can barely type I’m laughing so hard, thank you so much for that laugh. Oh, it’s beautiful after the day I’ve had arguing on the comcast site with Federalist wing nuts, christian wing nuts, republican wing nuts, hell, it’s been a nutty kinda day so your post was so very, very appropo…LMAO I’m a nut…
It seems to me that Dubya laid his cards on the table - World War III and Israel. Gee, no surprise. Congratulations Mr. President, you fucking moron, you just polarized the world! Any chance of peace and stability just went down the toilet (I never believed that we had any chance with these dumbasses, including Nancy Pelosi, in office anyway)! My question to all who post on CommonDreams is this: when do the doors to the KBR constructed prison camps open?
I just watched Keith Olbermann reporting on Dubya’s press conference today and found myself yelling at the tv - there was our president, smirking and giggling while talking about WWIII!(He says he’s against it, by the way)The inmates truly are running the asylum. From the same broadcast I learned that the woman appointed to be head of Family Planning (I think with the FDA)believes contraception is part of the “culture of death”. So, unfortunately, yes, I think the crazies will fall for war with Iran - nothing seems to be too absurd to be believed any longer.
TheLorax,
Great post. I too am LMAO.
Three reasons it will happen:
- (1) to spike the price per barrel of oil even higher. (This is the real mideast shell game–oil DESTABILIZATION, not acquisition.)
- (2) to obtain a crisis of sufficient magnitude to declare martial law, thereby stopping the elections and silencing the Internet;
- (3) Because the Democrats will not stop them.
I will vote for Dennis in the primary, but beyond that, the Dems are no longer my party.
I am not sure what I am going to do.
I don’t know this country anymore.
Maybe a protest vote?
No vote (first time in 20 something years)? maybe the lesser of the evils - the repub?,
to hell with it!
You all are all so smart and witty here.
I am ready to lose it. We need one hero.
it’s sick.
Bye.
Hey Lorax, you oughta be a wrighter, that’s grate.
TheLorax was joking?
The idea of “preventive war” is so stupid no wonder it comes from the sick minds of Bush/Cheney, because it means you start a war to prevent war. It’s like Bush committing suicide now in order to prevent him from committing suicide in the future?
There is a must read article on www.counterpunch.org on “Time to Boycott Voting”. It’s an ideal way for taking political action for those, including myself, who are afraid of doing anything actively that may end up in arrest or in being marked as a dissident. Please read it and spread the word. It’s something all of us can and should do without fear.
hey now -
I feel much closer to what you apparently do in your 11:41pm post (ready to lose it.) I don’t believe in political heros; maybe I’m just trying to believe in a political movement where The People are heroic to themselves and decent to their fellows.
Fat chance of that in the US; yes, I know.
Something in me wants to give up. The situation seems hopeless. But something else won’t let me give up easily. I don’t think it’s hope, anymore. It’s more like a smoldering rage in the gut, at the prospect of the most hedious beings among us presuming to ‘rule’ us - with no more trouble than it takes to put on a Halloween mask and steal candy from a child.
So, I try to post seemingly sensible, seemingly hopeful ideas (VANGELARAS, thanks for your nice post, above.) But more and more, my own posts embarrass me; I often hear myself talking like the child who’s had his candy stolen, crying to mommmy to get it back.
The one thing, though, that haunts me - beyond all this anguished back and forth doubt vs. resolution, is the image of that single Chinese guy, during the 1990 Tienanmen Square protests, standing in front of a huge military tank, blocking its way; daring the tank driver to run him over and crush him: And the tank driver backs down, looses.
It’s just an image about human courage - not connected to any larger reality, really. As we all know, the Chinese gov went on to fully crush those protests; protestors who pathetically erected a replica of the US Statue of Liberty as THEIR symbol. What an irony….
If I could become fully depressed (instead of being enraged), maybe then I could stop writing.
I think that that will happen, by and by.
And
“I will vote for Dennis in the primary, but beyond that, the Dems are no longer my party.
I am not sure what I am going to do.
I don’t know this country anymore.
Maybe a protest vote?
No vote (first time in 20 something years)? maybe the lesser of the evils - the repub?,
to hell with it!
You all are all so smart and witty here.
I am ready to lose it. We need one hero.
it’s sick.
Bye.”
hey now, Go with a third party or write-in candidate. It can help to remember that all change begins in a single action.
Stay strong.
I hate this article.
It’s so defeatist.
Better ignore it; we already know all this crap
“US President George W. Bush said Wednesday that he had warned world leaders they must prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons “if you’re interested in avoiding World War III.”
“We’ve got a leader in Iran who has announced that he wants to destroy Israel,” Bush said at a White House press conference after Russia cautioned against military action against Tehran’s supect atomic program.
“So I’ve told people that, if you’re interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon,” said Bush.”
so know, it’s down to iran just having the knowledge? and the sheep will lap this up, just like they did the w.m.d.s.
I don’t think Bush and Cheney will start a war with Iran if Putin has anything to say about it. And the top generals also realize what an insane person runs the White House and will stop any pre-emptive action. Or am I being too optimistic? When it comes to Bush, any crazy action is probable. But the general public does not want war, but are inactive, unaware, and oblivious to this Administrations illegal activities. Perhaps because we don’t see the thousands of coffins that hit our shore and because the media will do as they are told, and because our legislators do nothing but let Bushco get away with anything, most realize they are helpless.
judi,
Do not put anything past these dangerous people. If they want to make WWIII happen, they will (in fact, you can practically bank on it happening).
Yes, tech2, things are exactly as bad as they sound. A friend of mine, who is a peace activist, refused to tell me what she was doing in Minneapolis, because she was afraid her mail was being monitored. This national security threat was a little old lady who taught piano for a living.
I personally have been driven from two jobs for not being politically correct, although my views have the toleration of my denomination as of yet. The first job, I lost over supporting homosexuality. The second job, over questioning the war along just war principles. I did not preach on either issue from the pulpit or attend a political rally for either cause. I made the mistake of letting my views be known. The days of the thought police are here, now! I personally have been tempted to leave the country, but I am guardian to two boys that I could not take with me.
This article and my experiences reminds me of Christ’s diatribe in Matthew 23, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous, and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
Thus you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
Fill up, then, the measure of your ancestors.
You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that upon you may take all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come upon this generation. “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing! See, your house is left to you, desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’”
It is hard to maintain hope these days. Most Americans that I run into either don’t think about this stuff during their normal day, or are in support of the military action. Another faction thinks things aren’t quite as bad as what we read about here, and have ‘faith’ that America will wake up and revolt against this monstrosity of a government.
I remember reading PNAC for the first time at the beginning of 2002 after doing some research about why 9/11 happened. Everything that has happened has gone according to that plan. The groundwork was laid down during Reagan’s term.
While I know many would accuse me of needing a tin foil hat, this truly is a New World Order occuring. The total and complete privatization of Mother Earth. Control by multi-national corporations through the military and propaganda.
KBR internment camps, and going to war with Iran….canceled elections, its the stuff of nightmares really.
TPTB want us to feel powerless, those who pay attention anyway.
One of the biggest obstacles IMHO, is the use of End Times prophecy. This is a wonderful mechanism to keep the fundie base, and even those on the fringes who have some doubt, in line. It works in all 3 of the big religions. And if TPTB manage to continue to use it…..we will face a fight of biblical proportions. And since all 3, Evangelicals, Islamofacists, and Zionists believe they will be chosen ones and given mastery over the rest of us….that makes for some sweet koolaid.
But I don’t like bullies much…so I am gonna continue to watch, and educate, and adjust my tin foil beanie. Shaking voice or not, I am angry. But I am also thankful for all of you. At least we know we aren’t alone in this.
Judi, you are indeed too optimistic. The military takes pride in obeying the civilian leadership and they do not allow themselves to question policy. To even bring up questioning thoughts can be grounds for a dishonorable discharge. When you live in that type of closed environment, someone can tell you, “The sky is yellow.” and you will believe them. You might even paint your ceiling yellow to prove them right. What amazes me is not that more soldiers are not questioning the war, but that so many do.
La politica de Bush es de locos. LOCOS.
ggpearl, you are on the mark. i have been harping on PNAC for 3 or 4 yrs. emailed all of the m.s.m. no response. have you noticed there has never been a discussion of it on any of them? cowards. i have my doughts, that the truth on any of this will ever come to light. as for the fundys, they just shut down, and turn off the thinking process. after all, thats what they have been conditioned to do since childhood. oh the rapture.
pastor, when you have the power of your pulpit, and you do NOT preach on those issues, no offence, but you are part of the problem by remaining silent. stand up pastor.
Hey terryb
Thank you. In reading all these posts, it is soooo good to know I am not alone. People losing jobs, being silenced, everything is just sitting there right in front of our faces….but dang that comfortable river in Egypt sure is soothing, ain’t it?
I have held strong on my voice, even was threatened with mental lock up because people don’t want to look at it. They keep saying that TPTB aren’t that smart, Bush is a bumbling idiot that could not pull this off. For effin’s sake….if they would just READ! Everything is hidden in plain site. Planned and executed dang near flawlessly. The cycles of history are repeating. GW’s grandaddy and the Nazi’s, replace Jew with Muslim (ala Zionist AIPAC) of whom HOW MANY are duel citizens of Israel and US? Many of the administrations hard hitters TRAINED under Nixon, all of it…if people would just think and read outside of the box.
I mean no offense to any person of Jewish ancestory in this forum, the same to any muslim or Christian. But I will not support any method that enslaves me, none. The use of people’s faith, the use of violent scripture combined with the greedy profiteers of multi-nationals is really BAD chemistry.
And no, I won’t get off my soap box, I won’t shut up and I won’t back down. Awareness, Anger , Action. Keep speaking truth to power.
ggpearl, keep up the good work.
Thank you for the kind advice, Terryb, but I will tell you an event that happened at a neighboring church recently that will help you understand the difficult position that pastors are in. A new member was inducted in the church and asked to talk about her life. She was an ardent peace activist and told about her activism. Another member of the church stood up after her and went on a diatribe about how wrong this person was to oppose the war. The minister of that congregation now had the difficult task of finding a way to express to the new member that she remained welcome in this church, when what she chose say about who she is was clearly unwelcome. Both of our churches are located close to a military base where the previously mentioned policy of supporting the civilian leadership no matter what remains in affect.
It would be nice to say that we all should fight for the right come what may, but frequently multiple values come into play, like whether we want to keep our jobs, not be arrested, not destroy a church with controversy, or even not be killed. We pastors, like you lay people, choose our battles carefully. There are times when a congregation is open to learning and developing their understanding of an ethical issue and times when they are not.
I let my opinion be known to people gunning to take me out in an honest manner and I lost my job for it. This gave me an opportunity in turn to raise awareness of the issue and what is happening in a way that clearly showed who is being intolerant. Do you really think that I would have made any more friends for our cause if I had pushed my opinion more agressively?
Since our real importance to the owners of government is as consumers, not as electorate, why not wield the clout we have: the power not to buy. If everybody who participates in this list and all our contacts would just refrain from making any holiday related purchases at all from Thanksgiving to New Years, wouldn’t that affect holiday sales enough to make them recognize that we’re here? Even if we promise the kids we’ll celebrate Old Christmas on Jan 6 this year in honor of the Iraqi kids…?
pastor, do you not see that there is something inherently wrong, in a religion that propogates war and violence? if you do not agree with that, what are you doing there? can you in good concience adhere to that doctrine? i’m sure there has to be a church somewhere, that does not adhere to violence as a solution, that could use a man with conviction of his morals. i appreciate your delema, it must be a struggle for you. i am not religious, but i do admire jesus, the man. i do not judge you. i wish you all the best. respecfully. terry
Simply, we fly towards Iran and the Soviets fly up to defend, then we’re back to the escalation of war “games” of the cold-war era, only it isn’t cold anymore.
Impeach Bush & Cheney - NOW.
Is this article making us more stupid? I think so and more scared.
Bush likes to scare people have you noticed?
Nixon boasted of the same strategy of making the Russians think he was crazy so that they would back down from the threat of nuclear war.
It was also the excuse for the cover-up of JFK which was the same kind of lie. Johnson Told Warren and his friends in the recorded phone calls “if we can’t pin it on Oswald alone it would be nuclear War with hundreds of millions gone!”
The bomb now still keeps everything from the people.
I think it is hard for a president to start a nuclear War and it takes more than pushing a button in a briefcase… but Bush doesn’t want you to know that.
People who are afraid give themselves reasons and make up reasons to be silent.
Activists give themselves reason to act.
Now those who admit they are too scared to do anything active are advocating boycott of voting.
I just read the article http://www.counterpunch.org/hirschborn10162007.html .
what I get out of it is that 50 percent of the public does not vote because they are disgusted with the system or and they are not voting in protest.
That is just a guess because lots of people don’t vote because they are also apathetic or just don’t get interested in Politics…can’t balme them for that but they don’t hide behind calling it a movement.
But the promise of this new strategy is that if another 25 percent don’t vote “it will bring the system to it’s Knees.”
I don’t think so.
If 50 percent not voting didn’t change the system except enable the election of our present crop of leaders, how is 75 percent of eligible voters being silent do the trick.
Article 322: “If after the election only 25 percent of the voters turn out, the present system will be cancelled”…. Sorry we are now are in fantasy land.
Not voting is the weakest protest you can make because that is what your oppressors want.
You will be considered apathetic and all your complaints afterwards may be bold but you will also be embarrassed that you did not vote because you will have shown yourself to be lazy or afraid and without any reasonable right to complain to all those who consider it a citizen’s duty.
If however you would go to the polls and then vote or not vote for any choice or just leave the choice blank that virtual “none of the above” will be recorded as an “undervote”.
That means you are not apathetic and want to register your protest that the choices offered or even the Two Party system is not good enough.
This together with a large 3rd party vote will be new and have meaning and may spur the development of a new coalition of 3rd party and folks who want real change to put the changes they want like single payer universal health and a national policy of working for Peace on the table of the People’s Movement for a better world.
Don’t vote and you won’t count and you will have no real right to complain.
But if you write in or vote for a third party, or leave the choice blank you will still count and if the combined 3rd party and protest vote comes close to the losing 2nd party, the system won’t change but it will be counted and noticed.
Remember the losing 2nd place party vote won’t count in representative fashion either because of the winner take all system.
I don’t think what I have been calling for has ever been openly tried before as a strategy. But not voting at all…. Well, 50 percent of the public has used that plan for most of my life.
Look where it got us.
It may not change the system but it will be noticed as what many voters elect to be counted.
This is the protest at the polls which is the only revolutionary alternative at the polls we have left and It won’t cost a cent to spread the word.
But if you still want to boycott the vote, that is your right and go ahead.
You won’t bring the system down but you will be putting yourself and those you care for down.
Do not worry we won’t attack Iran. it will never fly, the people will not allow it. There will be mayhem in the streets. The soldiers won’t go, there will be a mutiny for sure. Good is coming to the world, don’t lose faith.
@Jim Glover,
Thank you for taking the time to show how not voting is not a good way to show disatisfaction for the current direction our country is taking, or to show disgust for our entire political system. I also am very disatisfied. But not voting accomplishes nothing. Since I am against war, and since I deplore our lack of health care, I intend to write in Dennis Cucinich. If you feel like me, you could also write in Cindy Sheehan. By writing in a candidate who is so well known to represent what you stand for, you are making your opinion known. And no one can accuse you of being too lazy to vote.
Imagine the message it would send if 5% or more of the popular vote turned out to be for either Cindy Sheehan or Dennis Cucinich? And imagine the encouragement it would give these people to run again in four years?
But please do not write in things like Hitler, or Donald Duck. That accomplishes nothing.
This is a long thread, so forgive me if someone already mentioned this: Take a look at an article in last month’s Harper’s magazine by Seymour Hersh. Basically, he reports on the White House’s shifting justification for military action against Iran. According to Hersh, the White House has been unable to mobilize support at home or abroad by whipping up hysteria over Iran’s nuclear energy program. The strategy is now focused on making the case that Iran is the main cause of destabilization in Iraq. Scary stuff!
At the back of my mind, I’m thinking that the best way the string-pullers can cause Americans to warm up to another war, perhaps WWIII or a holocaust, is not another false flag, attempting to provoke Iran into striking first, etc.
Rather, they need to target us where it hits the things we hold most dear. The neocons will probably start a domestic psyops program to claim that the Iranians are going to take away iPods, beer, cell phones, video games, junk food and movies.