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Democrats Seem Ready to Extend Wiretap Powers
WASHINGTON - Two months after insisting that they would roll back broad eavesdropping powers won by the Bush administration, Democrats in Congress appear ready to make concessions that could extend some crucial powers given to the National Security Agency.
Administration officials say they are confident they will win approval of the broadened authority that they secured temporarily in August as Congress rushed toward recess. Some Democratic officials concede that they may not come up with enough votes to stop approval.
As the debate over the eavesdropping powers of the National Security Agency begins anew this week, the emerging measures reflect the reality confronting the Democrats.
Although willing to oppose the White House on the Iraq war, they remain nervous that they will be called soft on terrorism if they insist on strict curbs on gathering intelligence.
A Democratic bill to be proposed on Tuesday in the House would maintain for several years the type of broad, blanket authority for N.S.A. eavesdropping that the administration secured in August for six months.
In an acknowledgment of concerns over civil liberties, the bill would require a more active role by the special foreign intelligence court that oversees the interception of foreign-based communications by the security agency.
A competing proposal in the Senate, still being drafted, may be even closer in line with the administration plan, with the possibility of including retroactive immunity for telecommunications utilities that participated in the once-secret program to eavesdrop without court warrants.
No one is willing to predict with certainty how the question will play out. Some Congressional officials and others monitoring the debate said the final result might not be much different from the result in August, despite the Democrats' insistence that they would not let stand the extension of the powers.
"Many members continue to fear that if they don't support whatever the president asks for, they'll be perceived as soft on terrorism," said William Banks, a professor who specializes in terrorism and national security law at Syracuse University and who has written extensively on federal wiretapping laws.
The August bill, known as the Protect America Act, was approved in the final hours before Congress went on its summer recess after heated warnings from the administration that legal loopholes in wiretapping coverage had left the country vulnerable to another terrorist attack. The measure significantly reduced the role of the foreign intelligence court and broadened the security agency's ability to listen to foreign-based communications without court warrants.
"We want the statute made permanent," a spokesman for the Justice Department, Dean Boyd, said Monday. "We view this as a healthy debate. We also view it as an opportunity to inform Congress and the public that we can use these authorities responsibly. We're going to go forward and look at any proposals that come forth. But we'll look at them very carefully to make sure they don't have any consequences that hamper our abilities to protect the country."
House Democrats overwhelmingly opposed the bill in August and said the administration had been forced them into a corner.
As Congress takes up the new bills, a senior Democratic aide said, House leaders are working hard to ensure that the administration does not succeed in pushing through a bill that would make permanent all the powers it secured in August.
"That's what we're trying to avoid," the aide said. "We have that concern too."
The bill to be proposed on Tuesday by the Democratic leaders of the House Intelligence and Judiciary Committees would impose more controls over the powers of security agency, including quarterly audits by the Justice Department inspector general. The measure would also give the foreign intelligence court a role in approving, in advance, "basket" or "umbrella" warrants for bundles of overseas communications, a Congressional official said.
"We are giving the N.S.A. what it legitimately needs for national security but with far more limitations and protections than are in the Protect America Act," said Brendan Daly, a spokesman for Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Democrat of California.
Perhaps most important in the eyes of Democratic supporters, the House bill would not give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications utilities that participated in the eavesdropping. That has been a top priority of the administration. The temporary measure gave the utilities immunity for future acts, but not past deeds.
Private groups are trying to prove in federal court that the utilities violated the law by participating in the program.
A former senior Justice Department lawyer, Jack Goldsmith, seemed to bolster their case last week when he told Congress that the program was a "legal mess" and strongly suggested that it was illegal.
The House bill would also require the administration to disclose details of the program. Democrats say they plan to push the administration to turn over internal documents laying out the legal rationale for the program, something the administration has refused to do.
In the Senate, the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, John D. Rockefeller IV, Democrat of West Virginia, is working with his Republican counterpart, Christopher S. Bond of Missouri, a main proponent of the August plan, to come up with a compromise.
Wendy Morigi, a spokeswoman for Mr. Rockefeller, said that retroactive immunity for the utilities was "under discussion" but that no final proposal had been developed.
The immunity issue may prove to be the crucial sticking point between whatever proposals the House and Senate ultimately pass. Representative Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat who was among the harshest critics of the temporary bill, said in an interview he would vigorously oppose any effort to grant retroactive legal protection to telecommunications utilities.
"There is heavy pressure on the immunity, and we should not cave an inch on that," Mr. Nadler said.
Mr. Nadler said that he was worried the Senate would give too much ground to the administration in its proposal, but that he was satisfied with the bill to be proposed on Tuesday in the House.
"It is not perfect, but it is a good bill," he said. "It makes huge improvements in the current law. In some respects it is better than the old FISA law," a reference to the foreign intelligence court.
Civil liberties advocates and others who met House officials on Monday on the proposed bill agreed that it was an improvement over the August plan but were less charitable in their overall assessment.
'This still authorizes the interception of Americans' international communications without a warrant in far too many instances, and without adequate civil liberties protections," said Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, who was in the group that met House officials.
Caroline Frederickson, director of the Washington legislative office of the American Civil Liberties Union, said she was troubled by the Democrats' acceptance of broad, blanket warrants for the security agency rather than the individualized warrants traditionally required by the intelligence court.
"The Democratic leadership, philosophically, is with us," Ms. Frederickson said. "But we need to help them realize the political case, which is that Democrats will not be in danger if they don't reauthorize this Protect America Act. They're nervous.
"There's a 'keep the majority' mentality, which is understandable," she said, "But we think they're putting themselves in more danger by not standing on principle."
© 2007 The New York Times

108 Comments so far
Show AllAll the repugs have to do is put the Dims on the spot saying this is a "security issue" and they will fold. The Repugs know this. The Dims could use the same tactic where other issues are concerned but they lack the cajones much less the politcal saavy. That and they are not really in opposition to most of the Repug/corporate agenda . . .
"Democrats say they plan to push the administration to turn over internal documents laying out the legal rationale for the program, something the administration has refused to do."
"Some Democratic officials concede that they may not come up with enough votes to stop approval."
""Many members continue to fear that if they don't support whatever the president asks for, they'll be perceived as soft on terrorism," said William Banks, a professor who specializes in terrorism and national security law at Syracuse University and who has written extensively on federal wiretapping laws."
=====
Of course the Democrats are going to wimp out again. What's new? Bush won't turn over the documents, his powers will be extended, and we're screwed once again.
Soft on terrorism? Democrats should be afraid they're KNOWN to be soft on the unconstitutional Republican agenda. To monitor the communications of citizens without probable cause, not a "general warrant", is unconstitutional as hell.
The Democrats should lose the 2008 elections since they're supporting the Republican agenda. No party now represents citizens' rights, though the Democrats promised to do that and were America's hope when they were elected in 2006.
They make me sick and they can all go to hell. America will never again be what it was, not perfect, but good enough for most of us.
This is what I sent to my so called democratic representatives...
I will NEVER VOTE DEMOCRAT AGAIN if you extend (even with your so called limitations) the (sic) PROTECT AMERICA ACT. I will vote Republican rather than continue to pretend that the Democrats are anything different from the Bush Republicans. You are selling us down the river.
well someone has to be the collaborators - this time around its the democrats -
forget washington - asking for washington to fix washington is like asking for exxon to fix exxon
as the old song says....
dont need a crooked lawyer
to beat a crooked lawyer
before a crooked judge
While ranting a couple days ago about why Cheney/Bush decided not to make what The NYT sees as the easy choice regarding deciding not to torture or operate secret prisons, I wondered (again) if the contents of Cheney's man-sized safe have anything to do with chronic spinelessness in Congress. Does anyone really expect Cheney to spy more responsibly than J. Edgar Hoover?
BTW, I suspect one of the reasons Cheney condones torture even though he knows it produces bad intelligence is because truth is not among his priorities – Cheney wants hype-able intelligence, the scarier the fabrication the better. Torture is very well suited to producing such "intelligence" -- www.spectrumz.com/z/alejandro/why_make_stupid_choice.html
WE NEED A GENERAL STRIKE ON NOVEMBER 7, 2007 AS A PRELUDE TO SHOWING THESE DEMOCRATS THE DOOR ONE YEAR LATER UNLESS THEY STRAIGHTEN UP AND FLY RIGHT, AND PRONTO.
Sorry for shouting, but man, I'm starting to get pissed.
national security ?eavesdropping is not national security..securing our ports and borders,are...
Make a phone call to your Democratic Congressman TODAY!
Remind them that Pelosi is on her way out and Cindy Sheehan will be in. That's the penalty for ignoring one's constituency that elected him or her.
If nothing changes - start a recall petition (I'm not sure of this). Just to make waves and show how the constituency is veerrry unhappy about the Pelosites.
At the least you will feel better. The very idea that Dems would go along with this and not try to repeal the act altogether, is just totally unfathomable.
yes, yes, and yes again! i have SO had it with pelosi/steny hoyer/harry reid. i can't believe the other dems haven't recalled the whole lot from their leadership positions. i can only surmise that it is because secretly they are all in agreement and their collective position pretty much lines up alongside bush's.
vote republican, though? how about kucinich? if everyone i know who says they like him but are afraid he can't win and therefore do not want to "waste their vote" would just go ahead and vote for him, we might all be pleasantly surprised. if nothing else, what a statement it would make! besides, as a resident of the colony of D.C., i'm real used to casting meaningless votes.
as a matter of fact, how 'bout 8 more years of bush! since the (D)s don't seem willing to do what they were sent to the hill to do, let alone trash NAFTA/CAFTA/WTO, let's continue the nightmare and politicize/radicalize/ wake-up the REST of america!
Press pols to put the issue up for a binding public referendum. It would take the pressure off the Dems and the public's will would be done.
kgarry
Yes, I'll vote for Kuchinich myself, and secretly dream that he'll win, shaking the entire political structure to its roots. But I'll vote for no other representative, just President, even if I have to write it in.
'"Many members continue to fear that if they don't support whatever the president asks for, they'll be perceived as soft on terrorism," said William Banks, a professor who specializes in terrorism and national security law at Syracuse University and who has written extensively on federal wiretapping laws.'
The US Constitution and the rights of Americans are a small price to pay for the Democrats' image as 'tough on terror.'
Right?
There must be Clinton voters on this site and blog. To all the Clinton voters, I have a serious question for you. Are you aware you are voting for a canidate who supports the following:
-Continuing the War in Iraq indefinately with a permanent US presense on permanent military bases in Iraq (a South Korea type model).
-Continuing any War that Bush begins with Iran, and/or possibly attacking Iran herself.
-Continuing the 1 TRILLION dollar military and war budget
-Continuing The Patriot Act, unconstitutional civil liberty restrictions and suppression of free speech, "enhanced interrogation techniques (torture)," illegal domestic wiretappin/spying programs, and surveillence. Suppression of free speech, and other various amendments.
-A Health Insurance scheme that is simply another government handout and giveaway of taxpayer dollars to big corperations, not a universal system of nonprofit insurance. Continuing the merger of corperations and government into one.
-Will not give us a middle class/lower class tax break, while working towards a more fair tax system on the wealthiest 1%.
-Continuing the blackmailing, manipulation and controlling of the major media outlets from top down, and the information given to them. Suppression of free press.
And Obama and Edwards are also both not too far off from the same positions on the issues above, they just explain it differently. They're all cut from the same cloth.
So again, I pose the questions and i'm looking for serious responses… Are you aware you plan to vote for a canidate who supports these? Can you explain why, after knowing all these, can you still vote for this canidate who clearly doesn't represent the Democratic party?
The Clintonian health care framework (as well as the mortgage bailout, S&L bailout, etc.) are worse than a government/corporate merger.
Socialism and fascism, from opposite ends, would argue for such a merger (either government takeover of corporations, or a corporate takeover of government).
The neoliberals, on the other hand, advocate for a socialism for the wealthy sort of dynamic in which the public is forced to pay tithe/tribute to underwrite the very market forces/dynamics/limitations, which give rise to failed banks, lack of health care, etc. So what incentive is there for any such industry to do the right thing if they can instead get on the gravy train?
I've been wondering: What does it take?
How many times can "progressive Democrats" slam their heads against that brick wall, before they understand that the Democratic Party doesn't want them and will never yield?
It may throw them a bone once in a while, like the paltry minimum wage increase, but it will never adopt even part of a progressive agenda. They long since sold themselves to the highest bidder (Republicans, of course) and they're the kind of honest politician who stays bought.
And please, don't vote Republican to "show" them - that is exactly the wrong message. There is a progressive party in this country: the Greens (www.GPUS.org). We need all the help we can get, and a vote for us will send a clear message to the establishment. If there isn't a Green on the ballot, vote for a Libertarian (right-wing, but at least strong on civil liberties) or leave the line unvoted. (This is the "undervote", and it is counted -ask your county elections office.)
Better yet, if there's no Green on the ballot, organize a chapter and run yourself. Now THAT sends a message.
Why is nobody surprised? A gang of crooks, indivisible ...
Paul do you seriously think that " government takeover of corporations, or a corporate takeover of government" are the same thing? If so you need better quality smoke.
Fascism demands that corporation's rights supersede the rights of individuals.
Socialism demands that the rights of individuals supersede the rights of the corporations.
Socialism demands participatory government.
Fascism demands the freedom of the jungle, the rule of fang and claw.
Socialism is on the side of the human race.
Fascism is on the side of greed, power, perversion and corruption.
I've never voted Democratic or Republican. I just look at the shenanigans of the Demopublicans and see it as a predictable course in a long historic tradition of power consolidating itself in ever more repressive forms.
Most polls indicate a huge majority of the population want out of Iraq, want impeachment proceedings, do NOT want to be wiretapped, want universal health coverage. The approval ratings of Congress are in the gutter along with Bush. Do they care? Did voting in a new congress change anything?
I, like many here, try to work with the system to try to make some difference, but really? I think of myself as a member of the other great American tradition, Americas "dropout culture". Why participate in a murderous and suppressive system?
Here's the problem, country simple. The oligarchy of this country is trying to corner the world's oil. The American public is now expressing reservations about the administration's tactics and policies, but, if you take away their SUVs, they will squeal like stuck pigs and DEMAND a fascist government.
Very few, if any, concessions to the Repuks are appropriate. Social/environmental justice and responsibility are now at the top of the public agenda, that is the REAL public agenda.
The cloak of delusion is falling, and the Repuks are being discredited like never before. Their capitalist, militarist, imperialist, zionist house of cards is collapsing fast.
The Demoks should force the Repuks to concede everything. But they are all in it together aren't they? Yep - the two wings of the capitalist party are circling their wagons to protect their illegal/immoral enterprise from the socialist onslaught, the tyranny of the majority.
You ask politicians to choose:
Constitutional principle.
vs
Posturing for the press.
Come on, play fair!
In today's political language, soft on terrorism really means strong on the Constitution.
Hoa binh
A police state, the USA, needs plenty of spying and secrecy. Just ask Steny Hoyer, one day he wants to get the children get health care, the day before he's scoring big money for his boss, Defense Inc. He serves one master, don't be confused.
Big pieces of cake are handed out, Steny helps direct the plate to PAX Naval Air Base. The ATM is pointed right at Lockheed, with Steny as a proud employee. Oh yeah, Steny is all for increased fear, paranoia and wiretapping, nothing is more effective for the bottom line.
Yup, we are in the throes of a totalitarian state, there's no kinda doubt about it. It's not completely new here in America, but 9/11 was the final stages of the coup d'etat.
We had a great shot at freedom and we blew it. Are any of us gonna stand up and fight? Or is this it? Do we just lie down and die?
White Rose, "Socialism demands participatory government."
Does that include The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics when Stalin was dictator?
My congressman, Maurice Hinchey voted against Bush's excess. So did the man I support as the Republican to get the presidential nomination in 2008, Ron Paul. Most of the rest of you, Where is your backbone?
rtdrury, thank you for this.. "Very few, if any, concessions to the Repuks are appropriate. Social/environmental justice and responsibility are now at the top of the public agenda, that is the REAL public agenda."
However then you said, "the two wings of the capitalist party are circling their wagons to protect their illegal/immoral enterprise from the socialist onslaught, the tyranny of the majority."
I don't have much doubt that the Democraps and the Repuglicans are really one party. There is also no doubt, from me anyway, that there agenda is illegal and immoral. It's this part that I have a problem with.."the socialist onslaught, the tyranny of the majority"
More like the (general) public onslaught than 'the socialist onslaught'. Also, I personally have a problem with "the tyranny of the majority" That scares me just as much as the tyranny of the state.
For instance, it was the tyranny of the majority in the South that allowed blacks to be lynched with out consequence. It was the tyranny of the majority in the North that shoved blacks into ghettos when the migration in the early 2th century.
It sounds like insanity.
People have become so blind and so paranoid that they throw their freedoms to the wind to be "saved from the deadly terrorists". Bin Laden must be the boogeyman right? OOOH I'm scared maybe Blackwater should patrol my neighborhood to keep me safe. I should buy guns. Lots of guns! I'll be safe then when my living room looks like a war bunker!
There are many institutions to help people deal with mental illness. Many Americans should seek them out to help them deal with their fear. 'Terrorism' is a household term now but it wasn't before bush was 'elected'. Before bush was elected nobody knew about Al-Qaeda. Fear has been fabricated and spread through lies all across the country. Now people suspect their own neighbors of being terrorists! It's the same kind of unreasonable insane behavior as in the 1950's when people built fallout shelters in their backyards. There aren't any terrorists here. There are VERY FEW terrorists in the entire world. The enemy is a media conjured phantom. Wake up!
>Does that include The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics when Stalin was dictator?
Play nice, please. ^_^ Not all socialists are totalitarian, or even statist.
purvis ames, "if you take away their SUV's they will squeal like stuck pigs and DEMAND a fascist government".
You may be right. I have thought that if things get really bad, i.e., high gas prices, job loss, foreclosures, etc. that THEN things will change for the better. But when fear and weakness dominate the public psyche, fascism moves in to "save the day", "Leave it to us, we'll take care of you" while all the while sucking out the life blood of a frightened public.
Daniel, "Are any of us going to stand up and fight? Or is this it? Do we just lie down and die?"
"Better to die on your feet than to live your life on your knees".
What part of illegal don't they understand?
"Perhaps most important in the eyes of Democratic supporters, the House bill would not give retroactive immunity to the telecommunications utilities that participated in the eavesdropping. That has been a top priority of the administration. The temporary [August] measure gave the utilities immunity for future acts, but not past deeds."
And just how many millions of dollars in campaign donations are likely to be funneled into the coffers of politicians willing to give the telecommunications utilities blanket immunity for their past misdeeds?
Do the same giant telecommunications entities whose "past deeds" (in cahoots with CIA/NSA snoops) got them sued for violating the privacy rights of Americans also have ownership interests in the giant telecommunications entities that sell political advertising air time, or whose news divisions report on the daily give-and-take on the partisan campaign trail?
Hell yes Bush wants immunity for his buddies as a top priority.
Hell yes it's tempting for key Democratic leaders to be selling their votes on this arcane legislative immunity provision, in exchange for future campaign donations and media coverage perks.
Hell yes, those who stand up for the Bill of Rights and legal accountability for one's past corporate misdeeds are likely to be villified on Faux News and MSM elsewhere as soft on terrorism, or as legalistic nit pickers too naive to let the cops listen in when Al Qaeda calls.
As Rep. Jerrold Nadler puts it, "There's heavy pressure on the immunity, and we should not cave an inch on that."
Want to bet we do what we shouldn't do when the final version emerges?
I mean, if Congress can immunize torture past, present and future, why not dish over a second helping of immunity for our friends in the telecommunications industry?
All you gotta do is just follow the money trail.
Bill from Saginaw
rtdrury, thank you for this.. "Very few, if any, concessions to the Repuks are appropriate. Social/environmental justice and responsibility are now at the top of the public agenda, that is the REAL public agenda."
However, then you said, "the two wings of the capitalist party are circling their wagons to protect their illegal/immoral enterprise from the socialist onslaught, the tyranny of the majority."
I don't have much doubt that the Democraps and the Repuglicans are really one party. There is also no doubt, from me anyway, that there agenda is illegal and immoral. It's this part that I have a problem with.."the socialist onslaught, the tyranny of the majority"
More like the (general) public onslaught than 'the socialist onslaught'. Also, I personally have a problem with "the tyranny of the majority" That scares me just as much as the tyranny of the state.
For instance, it was the tyranny of the majority in the South that allowed blacks to be lynched with out consequence. It was the tyranny of the majority in the North that shoved blacks into ghettos during the migration in the early 2th century.
So I am leery of ANY tyrannies.
Great question above: What part of "illegal" do the Dems not understand? Rather than stand their ground and defend the Constitution and just say NO, they propose "compromise" bills. Yes, always play nice with despotic bullies. That gets you far.
There is so much taking place these days in our government that is in "grey" territory, outside the law, and here we have the Dems giving crimes retroactive legality by proposing bills that sanction the illegal action (rather than say, impeaching the criminals).
This reminds me of an anecdote from Hannah Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem." Before the "Final Solution" was discussed at the Wannsee Conference (excuse my spelling) Hitler put Eichmann (the nice small-minded but efficient bureaucrat who arranged the train schedules for the concentration camps) in charge of the "Madagascar Project." This project, which Hitler knew would never come to fruition, was the initial plan for dealing with the Jews: ship them all to Madasgascar. When it turned out that shipping them to that island was not feasible, they turned to other plans, involving concentration camps and gas vans and ovens. The whole point of the Madagascar project was to get the officials "used" to the idea of having to dispose of, some way, some how, an entire ethnic group. What before was "unthinkable" became a "project" in need of a solution.
It's the same logic here: Bush et al got the Dems used to the idea that expanded wiretapping was necessary, and now they are scrambling looking for compromises (rather than just standing up and saying: NO! THIS IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!! STOPPPP. IMPEACH.)
It is completely unconstitutional and he has put a match to many of our amendments as listed in the Bill of Rights.
No one is gonna impeach the sons of bitches. I say shoot the bastards.
This IS 1984.
So what's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican again?
Oh, that's right, one of them is the "lesser of two evils." Not sure which one is which anymore....
VOTE GREEN PARTY! www.GP.org
Being against bullying and terrorizing innocent people doesn't mean one is "soft on terror." The Democrats have been using that lame excuse for a long time. They don't have the guts to stand up to bullying by the Bush-Cheney Crime Syndicate.
I'll vote 3rd party. Enough is enough. Republicans and Democrats are both fascists, extreme right-wingers and right-wingers that are complicit with and enable the extreme branch.
While I'm on the subject, how is it being "soft on terror" when Iraqis were and are no threat to the U.S.? No weapons of mass destruction, no plans to attack the U.S. or anyone else, so why do U.S. politicians pretend there is a link between Iraq and terrorism?? That goes for BOTH Republicans and Democrats.
Democrats just want to go along with warmongering, war profiteering, war criminal Repubublicans because there is NO difference between the two parties. They both need to be voted out.
Congressional Dems are afraid of their own shadow. So much for true patriotism and such trivialities as upholding the US Constitution, Bill Of Rights, The Geneva Convention, and other International laws.
Everywhere I go and everyone I meet - Democrat and Republican - are angry their respective parties don't stop the insanity; refuse to hold the criminals in charge accountable for their crimes.
As far as Democrats . . . Hillary-Dillary has got a hell of a surprize when citizens refuse to vote for her, or anyone who extends spying on common citizens and plans to wage war far into the future. There are a lot of citizens who simply will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils.
Geesh, this is depressing! Less than a year ago, I thought we'd won. A third party strategy is a losing strategy. However, if the neocons do break away, it could then be a four-way race, and we could be in for a tecktonic shift in our country's future.
Is there going to be vote? Tell me again what elections in this country accomplish for the people? What are all those gulags that Haliburton is building across the US for again? And what about the HUGE Blackwater military base being built in San Diego County? Rule of law; does it exist anymore? Bill of Rights? Constitution?
At this point the whole body politic is rotten to the core. No matter what party. It doesn't even matter who is to blame or how we got here. The wave of the American experiment crested a while back. The breaker can no longer be stopped. I'll fight to the end but I know my efforts are in vein. There will not be revolution until every American feels the pain personally. And that pain is coming to a neighborhood near you very soon. All the pieces are in place for an economic collapse. An attack on Iran or a "red flag" event will just hasten it.
The funny thing is that I am no longer depressed about the inevitable. I know that a peoples' true revolution is the only medicine that can precipitate what needs to be done to cure what ails this country. And there will be no revolution until ALL of the people wake up and HAVE to fight together to survive. Of course, those that are looking forward to "The Rapture" probably won't be much help.
The only thing left for us to do now is prepare. Put together the essentials that you and yours will need for several months. Don't forget the seeds for community gardens. Make sure you have a bicycle. Get to know your neighbors. We are all in this sinking boat together and everybody is going to have to help bail.
Peace and Good Luck
Pass notes.
How to get their panties in a wad.
I first saw this story this morning in the New York Times on-line. The summary under the header said, "Democrats remain nervous that they will be called soft on terrorism if they insist on strict curbs on gathering intelligence."
Was there any reason to read further? I did, but found that my first suspicion was justified. Nothing substantial was added.
The headline and summary carried the meaning complete. And the word "nervous" seemed almost on track. It was overly mild, of course. Any of the following words or phrases would have been more apt: "pathological," "paranoid," "care
too much what dumb people think," "sheeple."
That's what we've got in America right now, administratively speaking. The people who run us, Republican or Democratic, are extremely neurotic, even deranged.
We need a resurgence of the liberal arts, along with well-balanced individuals like Mrs. Miniver of British fictive fame. We don't want to be like the neurotic Republicans in "The Masque of the Red Death" by Edgar Allan Poe.
That story is about nobles in a fortress doing anything in their power to keep the plague/terror out. What's going to happen to them is a foregone conclusion.
The non-neurotic Mrs. Miniver would go about her business. If the person on her left was transformed into a blood patch, she would do
what she could, but, essentially, would continue going about her business.
We need people of sound mental health who are not easily jerked this way and that.
People who support the Bush-Cheney Crime Syndicate lie and say "Muslims admitted to doing 9/11." What are their names, by the way? Does that mean, according to the war supporters, that it's okay to kill any Muslim? Even unarmed men and women and children? Blackwater just shot and killed two Iraqi women today who were no threat.
$$$$$ War and killing $$$$$ is profitable according to sad, evil people. :(
@Grumbler"A third party strategy is a losing strategy."
Isn't America losing already be continually electing the same clowns to Congress and the Presidency that keep on selling us out the highest bidder?
This most important question to ask yourself on election day is not "which candidate won?" but instead, "Did *I* win?"
Im a brit and am constantly encouraged by the insight and vehemence expressed here as you guys surely are fighting for your freedom - undergoing relentless onslaught by the far right. How the hell can you STOP this short of an uprising is beyond me. You have no resources other than your fine minds and patriotism, no logistics, no cohesive leadership,little if any access to control of the media or communications ...and the awful thing for the rest of the world is simply that if Fascist USA totally arrives there is no hope for the rest of us. Witness a New Labour government ten years on ...not very much socialism left in their creed ...just more of corporatism a la Bush/necons. Sorry, I have no answers.............just more observations.........GOD BLESS AMERICA and us all!
roger carter - excellent question.
What the "new continent" has is a mixture of all Peoples from many places. This makes us unpredictable and vulnerable, but it also makes us strong if we are receptive to our best notions.....
We can be so much better.......we may be, and if we do, there need to be reparations.........
People, let us remember that we all want Peace and Harmony. Don't we????
Peace,
Ken Hausle
Roger Carter: Thanks for the understanding. We all need to know if anybody on the "outside" really understands what the American PEOPLE are up against here in the US. Your observations are spot on. And the uprising HAS to happen! It is the ONLY solution at this late date.
Those who held up the "Patriot" Act, got a little dose of white powder in the mail--and voila! the Act went right on through. It was weapons grade--which meant it came from a U.S. Government-sponsored lab--yet, everyone pretends like it didn't happen. FBI guy in charge gets big promotion. Like "hellava job, Brownie" in New Orleans. Everytime the officials fail the country dismally, they get medals and promotions.
on 9-11, 3,000 Americans and guests killed--vaporized--did I say vaporized--I shall always remind people that they were vaporized. Buildings come straight down after volcano-like eruptions. Looks like somebody in our government is playing for keeps and our Congressmen and women have never been known for their bravery. Greatest crimes in our history go uninvestigated or have only a sham investigation--which speaks volumes.
Let me take this opportunity to thank the History Channel for their ridiculous display of government boot-licking. They actually did the 9-11 Truth movement a great favor. Anyone watching that propaganda piece had to get suspicious. I checked out their blog right afterward, and lots of people were spurred into doing their own research by the sheer imbalance of the program. Thanks History Channel, Hearst Publishing (Popular Mechanics) and NBC/Disney owners. You protested way too much, and a lot of folks got it.
"Demo-rats seem ready to facilitate USA's Bush-led slide into Fascism"