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A Troubling Turn in American History
If Columbus is the beginning of the story, and, say, Lincoln is the middle, what is the end? Each episode of the American narrative surfaced a problem, which prompted attempts to resolve it, which led in turn to a new problem. This movement from problem to resolution to new problem and ever new efforts to fix things is what makes the American story great.
So Columbus arrived in 1492, but carried the European virus of ideological absolutism - what led Queen Isabella to expel Jews from Spain that same year. Such absolutism sparked Old World religious wars, and Puritan dissenters defied it by coming to America. But they brought their own version of that absolutism. John Winthrop's City on a Hill was a religiously gated community (no "pagans" or Quakers), with the magistrate empowered to coerce conformity. Therefore Roger Williams proposed the separation of church and state. By Jefferson's time, though, that distinction justified the separation of private morality from public ethics. Private morality meant he and others could keep the private property called slaves.
Abraham Lincoln presided at the altar on which the bloody sacrifice of civil war was justified by "freedom," but no sooner had redemptive violence (". . .as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free") saved the nation's soul than it spawned the Indian genocide, and the Jim Crow betrayal of blacks. In the name of freedom, the United States conquered a continent, and claimed a hemisphere - a destiny whose virtue was manifest against corrupt European imperialism. In the American Century, the nation born in rejection of ideological absolutism called itself capital of "the free world," but redemptive violence went nuclear, and defense of that freedom required absolute readiness to destroy the world. The chill of Cold War "realism" froze the American conscience.
An unexpected thaw (warming Gorbachev and Reagan) ended the Cold War bloodlessly, and America had a chance to redefine national redemption, removing violence from its center. That brings us to today. If this nation followed the pattern of its own historic reckoning with the ever unfinished work of public morality, political discourse would be defined by the dual-project of eliminating nuclear weapons and building international structures of peace. Instead, we are paralyzed by a war that no one wants, unable to change what matters most.
Last week, this story reached a climax of sorts, with developments like these:
War Cost. With new budget requests, the Iraq war price tag jumped over the $600 billion mark - enough, extrapolating from figures of the National Priorities Project, to add 9 million teachers to public schools for a year. Where would American education be if that happened instead? And where Iraq?
Mercenaries. We learned that the United States government has surrendered to "private contractor" hit squads the primal function of protecting its own diplomats in Iraq. Such unaccountable and profit-driven forces betray the foundational American military ethic. Hessians at last.
Abolition. Barack Obama made a major speech calling for a return to the long-abandoned goal of nuclear elimination. "We need to change our nuclear policy and our posture, which is still focused on deterring the Soviet Union - a country that doesn't exist." The major news media ignored this important declaration, obsessing instead with horse-race polls and fund-raising totals. Nuclear reform (antidote to proliferation and terrorism both) is not a campaign issue.
Torture. The Bush administration was revealed to have again secretly approved "enhanced" interrogation methods at restored CIA "black sites," where prisoners are once more held without treaty protections - measures that Congress and the Supreme Court have already rejected. Despite scandals, US torture continues.
These developments would be disturbing enough, but what they point to is an interruption in this nation's most important public tradition - the movement from recognition of a problem to its attempted resolution. From ill treatment of native peoples, to enslavement of Africans, to temptations to empire, to a religious embrace of violence, to Red Scare paranoia, to an insane arms race - we Americans have had our failings. But we have faced them. The capacity for self-criticism and change has defined our history. But that is not happening today. We are in an arms race with ourselves, and will not stop. Our unjust war is just unending. Our politics and media, meanwhile, form a feedback loop of banality. "Freedom" has become our prison.
Does all of this reveal a deeper flaw in our moral narrative itself? After all, we say today that our story began with Columbus. But what about the ones who welcomed him?
James Carroll's column appears regularly in the Globe.
© Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company

93 Comments so far
Show AllThe Bush regime is driving America into the grave. They put America in self-destruct mode.
the article ends with:
"But what about the ones who welcomed him?"
the first nations people's welcomed the newcomers and were it not for their assistance the white folks would have starved within 2 years.
as we know, the payback for them has been rough.
i don't want to take the space to litanize the crime sequence but it is fair to say that genocide is not too strong or inappropriate a word in describing what was done to the indigenous american people.
the civil war was americana at its best. a self consuming orgy of death and destruction that has served as a template for the destruction, which has continued virtually unabated since, for the world.
the interplay between the warring factions and their banks is always the crux of the issue. you can't fight a war without a banker.
let's remember that the great majority of soldiers in the civil war died from disease and hunger.
both the north and the south had funding/banking issues.
a few twists and turns aside, in 1913 the fed was empowered and then it was game over for the republic.
rather than the stages suggested in the article - it is a before and after paradigm, with the empowerment of the fed as the rubicon.
its been all downhill since then.
american money is fiat and worthless today, alarmingly, the bankers have put all their money in china and india, and we are preparing for the depression that appears to be coming at us like the light on an onrushing train.
we see the rot in our body politic - in the illiterate musings of bush, the evil in cheney, the incompetence in rice, powell and rumsfeld.
here's the rub: the masses now are so dumb they watch tv endlessly, in trance. there is no reality other than what you "feel". everyone is bored.
everyone is angry, frustrated and confused about what is going on.
feeling powerless and voiceless.
exactly where the bankers and nwo want you.
the question today is simply: do you accept this?
or will you surprise them and challenge their evil notions of what the world is and how to run it?
declining the fight in iran would be a good first step.
my problem with the public is this: i believe the only remedy for bush and co, the bankers and the war machine is going to be a nuremburg trials scenario where these evil bastards must be confronted with their deeds and then, if we have any decency at all, they must be - all of them - hung by their necks until they are dead.
their crimes: treason
the article wonders: do we have the strength to face up to what has happened.
i have my doubts, but i also still have hope.
i am new to posting at commondreams and i was going to quit posting here,ever....because i became frightened.i was frightened that something might wish to harm me for using my right as a citizen of democracy and expressing my FREEDOM OF SPEECH.then i realized that the impetus of any true act of bravery is fear.bravery is born from fear and the act of overcoming it.kudos to moveon.org for their act of bravery ! now i wish to appeal to all the passive readers and visitors of commondreams,to get your fingers busy and join us,start posting.do you want us to be frightened,all alone ??
Our history is still a bit clouded, but it's pretty clear today that the Muslims of the world are the Native Americans of America's birth. And Uncle Buck's IRON HEEL is almost completely scraped clean and ready to grind Muslims now. So it could sound something like this: "Dad, what's a Muslim? They were followers of a religion called Islam. They became extinct, sort of like what happened to the original American Indians. They also sat on resources we needed to develop the world. It's sad we had to do it but isn't it a better world because of it?"
Hoa binh
The major theme of this article is fine. But, to say the "War Between the States" "spawned" the war against the Native People is asinine. The former ran from 1861-1865. Officially, the issues were there before and during 1776 and are still not resolved. The latter was ~1500-~1900. These issues are not all resolved either, but at least they aren't ruining the country as much as those of that other "Civil" War.
Carroll wrote "...the capacity for self-criticism and change has defined our history. But that is not happening today."
I disagree. I think that criticism of the government and awareness of government crimes is at an all-time high. In spite of the "masses" who are "now are so dumb they watch tv endlessly" (milesofmusic), protests against the Iraq war were (and to some extent still are) impressive, even before the war started, by people who were at no risk of actually fighting it! Compare that to the Vietnam protests, which only materialized years after the war began and were manned largely by those who were at risk of being drafted. I think this shows impressive activism by (some of) the public.
Still, we have a long, long way to go with the "masses." Opposition to this administration is not stronger because the public is not required any immediate sacrifice (we put the war on the credit card, don't instigate a draft, etc.). If we want to wake the masses up, then promote a draft or pass legislation that requires a balanced war budget, including tax increases. The public responds to immediate incentives so we must form our government to make the public feel a war immediately.
America Are YOU the Problem?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/401236/america_are_you_the_problem.html
webwalk - very interesting observations. I wonder, do you have to believe in a country's entire history, or even believe in its illusions about its behavior, in order to choose to step into and use its structure and work on behalf of your own ideals? maybe it's a little like discovering someone's deep faults after you've married him/her -- you can reject the whole package and walk away, or you can accept the death of illusion and love the reality on your own terms. or something like that ...
milesofmusic: "the incompetence in rice, powell and rumsfeld."
i don't believe it. i don't believe in their incompetence. its like saying the failed policies of the wto and imf. yeah, they are failed from a belief that they wanted to help in the first place. but that has never been their goals. the goals of the corporate masters are to impoverish and inslave. and they are doing quite good in that regard. i see no incompetence, except for an analysis that believes these "public servants" are in power to serve the public. they are there to serve themselves and are quite competent in doing to.
to build alternative (localized, organic, crafty, science for the commons, science to understand consciousness) structures for the numb masses to wake up into should be our goal as folks who don't want to go along with corporate globalisation. grassroots globalism, its happening. focus on it. grow it. build, spread the alternative. pulling the followers away from bush and co's corparate globalism (waking them to their potential) would be worse than death for bush and co. they would probably off themselves.
in peace...
Hi,
To answer Carrol's final questions, yes: "This reveals a deeper flaw in our moral narrative itself".
Carrol calls attention to the moral flaw in the colonizers' treatment of "the ones who welcomed Columbus", but cannot bring himself to say "genocide", referring instead to "ill treatment of native peoples".
i go back and forth. Sometimes i assert that democracy is a positive legacy of the colonization of the "New World" and the founding of the United States of America, and We the People should take control of "our" government, end the war on the planet, and take care of each other. Under this scenario, in addition to organizing in our own communities, we should fight for impeachment, lobby our Representatives, join the Kucinich campaign, even draft legislation or run for office.
Other times i reject the entire political project of the United States as horrific from the start, no matter the many people and movements over the centuries who have been inspired by the dream and have fought to make it decent. Under this scenario we should reject the Constitution and the annual ritual of voting for "representatives", and focus purely on organizing in our own communities and building for a new form of political organization.
i think Carrol is also feeling this duality, thus his final questions.
whitewatersally: welcome to the fight. I've noticed your recent posts on Common Dreams -- they've been good additions to the discussions, and what you said above is probably the most important one. I've been writing and speaking out for six years now, but I've become more afraid recently than I was even at the beginning. Maybe we are sensing that as the numbers and power of the opposition has grown, those we oppose are growing more desperate. Fear certainly isn't an ignorant or shameful response--it's a smart and healthy one. We just can't let it stop us.
Columbus is the great great grand-daddy of US capitalism/imperialism. Maybe it's time to drag the carcass of Columbus out of the freezer and bury it in the garden.
WhitewaterSally, et. al:
There's very little to fear. Much of the concern about Big Brother is our own echo-chamber hysteria. Yes, there are some people in the higher reaches of gov't that don't want you to speak out. However, they are vastly outnumbered by everyone else that *does* want you to speak out.
The entire objective of the Bush administration's constant "red alert" messages and warrantless wiretapping is to inspire fear. They can't, and won't actually do anything. That would take real courage, which we know they don't have, because all the neocon chickenhawks send everyone but themselves into war. They're just bullies.
As any kid on the playground will tell you, the best way to dispense with bullies is to punch them square in the nose. You might get beat up, but they will think long and hard about picking on you again.
I promise you, America is still chock-full of people that are ready, willing and able to punch the bully in the nose.
Glad to have you among us.
travitrav quotes me:
milesofmusic: "the incompetence in rice, powell and rumsfeld."
------------
then repsonds:
i don't believe it. i don't believe in their incompetence. its like saying the failed policies of the wto and imf. yeah, they are failed from a belief that they wanted to help in the first place. but that has never been their goals. the goals of the corporate masters are to impoverish and inslave. and they are doing quite good in that regard. i see no incompetence, except for an analysis that believes these "public servants" are in power to serve the public. they are there to serve themselves and are quite competent in doing to.
----------
i would not argue with your point my friend. well spoken, i amend my post to reflect your input.
thanks.
I really don't believe we can blame Bush or even BushCo for the state we're in, not anymore. Things have gone too far.
Congress? Perhaps they are more culpable because their cowardice and betrayal of their sacred oaths are multiplied by their numbers. There are six hundred and forty-some-odd of them.
But really, those of us who really believe in carrying the torch for freedom and nonviolence have only ourselves to blame at this point for the extent of the depredations of our political discourse, lack of progress, and enslavement to the controllers of technology and force.
See? We have to stick our necks out or nothing is going to change.
Certainly the narrative of the USA as created and described by our predecessors is and should be deeply flawed from our perspective. If that were not so, that would mean that the people of the USA, or at least those of us at CD, have failed to evolve. And certainly our idea of what the narrative should be will be flawed from the perspective of some of those who follow us.
All we can do is push forward with our own narrative and our own perspectives. The humans of the past were products of their times, and it does no one any good to blame them for their beliefs (blame only makes sense to change behavior, and the dead cannot change). However, we can examine the shortcomings of their beliefs (blame their beliefs and imply that someone today who adopts such beliefs is blameworthy), from what we know now (hindsight is 20/20 after all), and adopt modifications of those beliefs, or an evolution of ideas, to create our own narratives.
We know now that all human beings are basically the same and can all unify together with common goals and purposes. That was not really widely understood or accepted prior to the 20th Century. The white settlers believed the Native American Indians, and non-whites in general, to be fundamentally different human beings and to be a threat to what they would have thought of as "God's purpose for civilized peoples." However, according to what we know now, the beliefs of the settlers were horrific, abominable, unimaginable, ...
The problem with the Bush administration, and their enablers in Congress, is that they should know better in the 21st Century. Bush seems to be the Louis XVI of the 21st Century, believing in the infallibility of the predatory (Bush says "free") market and the crony capitalist system that delivered so much to him just as Louis XVI of France believed in the French royal system because that had worked so well for him, despite all the evidence that these systems did not and do not serve the interests of others so well.
If only some of the outcomes in the two situations would come to resemble each other more closely...
dakotalin wrote:
"I wonder, do you have to believe in a country's entire history, or even believe in its illusions about its behavior, in order to choose to step into and use its structure and work on behalf of your own ideals?"
Well, this is the conclusion that i (almost) always return to, so i keep voting, keep lobbying "my" representatives, and (in addition to working in my own community) i keep trying to help catalyze democracy... i believe we COULD bypass the powers that abuse us, and use the existing Constitutional political structure to take democratic control of "our" country, and so i keep TRYING to help make that happen.
It's just that at the same time, i look at the ACTUAL narrative of US history, and can't escape the notion that my efforts just prove what a dupe i am. Not that i see an alternative political structure offering to grab hold of the historical narrative and run in a humane and life-affirming direction...
And in case anyone is ready to make assumptions about my political activities, they have always gone beyond simply voting and lobbying, to include civil disobedience and efforts to help organize popular movements.
I don't think the people have the wisdom or the courage to do what must be done and properly remove and punish the people responsible for the most recent crimes committed by the parties that have currently assumed charge of this nation. I mean really, I just cannot see that wicked grin being wiped from Bush's face after being assured that a series of legitimate charges of war crimes are being brought against him and his war profitering colleagues, in public and private. Why not? Because no political body or institution will do it. I would if I could. Instead he is smoothly sailing back to the ranch. That much he seems very confident of. Rattle his cage a little and see how fast he breaks down. He can't handle pressure very well, at least not a war crimes trial kind of pressure where he is the defendant, and these days he seems quite relaxed. He is even energized enough to continue his crusade by attacking Iran. As for the people. The people are too divided to adequately address their own concerns in relation to government. Which is what allows the politicals at all levels to get away with anything, unless it has something to do with sex. They can fly nuclear bombs over Kansas, doesn't matter unless someone was having sex on the plane. The NSA can assign training frequencies to the NORAD pilots causing them to not be able to discern real hijackings from a training exercise, no matter, as long as there was no sex involved, the band plays on. Steal two presedential elections, one a little more sophisticated than the other, big deal, sure, but not as big a deal as a little sex in a polling booth. A private banking industry orchestrates the collaspe of a market causing thousands to suffer the loss of personal property, what do the people say about that? Not much. Ummm...where is the sex story? Although, I do beleive that justice in some way will be found and delivered. I just hope it happens while the criminals are still living, and soon.
In the name of God the All Merciful, the Mercy-giving
I must say the answer to the prodding question at the end is a resounding YES!!!!!
The American myth is false. America was founded by imperial entities and those imperial entities (soon to become corporate entities) have stayed in power since.
"This movement from problem to resolution to new problem and ever new efforts to fix things is what makes the American story great."
No, that is what makes the HUMAN story great. Normal HUMAN BEINGS in touch with their humanity have an amazing ability to correct things.
The fact is that the policies and history of this country have always been imperial (i.e. massacre, ravage, steal, and corrupt). This present War on Terror is right on target in regards to true American history.
The Civil War was fought for economic gains, not freedom of any sort. Nor did it spawn "Indian" (are we still using a term that some ignorant European mistakenly used???) genocide...that was happening WAY before the Civil War.
To say Reagan ended the Cold War "bloodlessly" is not altogether true. He instigated and perpetuated economic oppression all over the globe, which then led to a lot of civil strife in those affected countries.
Because what Carroll calls the "resolutions" are not based on selfless, human, and godly premises, they never actually resolved anything. The corruption and problems compile one on top of another.
We need to stop this nationalistic narrative stuff. Nationalism is dead and irrelevant (thanks to multi-national corporations). It's time for the focus to be on the human narrative. We are all of one another, stemming from the same, single soul of Adam, peace on him.
God created us from nothing, and then we became living, thinking beings with all our sensory organs. He did not have to make any one of us, but He did. All He asks in repayment is gratitude by believing in Him and upholding justice and forbidding corruption.
God has commanded us to uphold justice, even if it's against our own selves. And until we do so, we will continue to see these problems occur and reoccur.
Those who fail to do so will be accountable for all the misery and corruption they caused.
But those who try, selflessly for the sake of God, to stop that corruption and reestablish justice so that we may all live in peace together, will be rewarded for all eternity.
Salaam
@ gde
Accepting that Carroll is using a broad brush in a short essay, I don't think it was "assinine" to say the Civil War spawned the genocide of Native peoples. What before had been a driving of them off their land, with the conquest of the West the fullfilment of Manifest Destiny became much more ugly, which also aimed at destroying culture, religion and language.
One point Carroll did not bring up is the part of Big Money in developments after the Civil War. Enormous fortunes amassed during the war changed things forever. Corporations became "legal" persons, immortal, of immense power, economic and political.
Later, in the 2nd half of the 20th century, they morph into MegaCorps, with economic power greater than that of many countries.
"Does all of this reveal a deeper flaw in our moral narrative itself?"
The answer is YES. American righteousness is a lie and false.
Freedom is not an American value. Why else create and support dictators like the Shah of Iran, the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia, Pinochet in Chile, Ferdinand Macros of the Philippines, Suharto in Indonesia, etc. Let alone, slavery, racial discrimination, torture, and preemptive war.
Further, human rights and rights under law, according to American politicians, only apply to Americans. This is morally bankrupt, it's political segregation and discrimination. If a person has rights then all people have rights, not just Americans. People in other countries may not have the protection of the U.S. constitution but Americans should recognize their rights as people.
littlem85,
How do you know that "All He[god] asks in repayment is gratitude by believing in Him and upholding justice and forbidding corruption[?]"
Have you spoken to god? Did god speak to you? Are you the new messiah?
Like any other ideal, American democracy has fallen short of its goals. America was founded on imperialism, religious intolerance (the Puritans were escaping religious persecution of their own religion, only to impose it when they arrived at their destination), slavery, and other unfortunate aspects. However, there is another side to the story. It was also founded on the principles of equality, rationalism, government by the people, independence, individualism, and intellectual thought. These principles are not followed, but it is rare that any human entity adheres to its beliefs.
In spite of unfettered capitalism, government hypocrisy, the outrages of the Bush cabal, the dumbing down of the populace through mainstream media, and all the other abuses of power, a certain human spirit sometimes survives. I am incredibly fortunate to live in a place where people truly engage in their lives. Maybe West Virginia is an anomaly, but my friends and acquaintances have gardens, coach youth sports, play chess and other social games, can and freeze their own vegetables, play music together, sit down to dinner with their families, keep up on current events, vote, read books of all kinds, and a vast variety of other activities. They are concerned about what is happening to this country, but don't know what to do about it. Many of us attempt to make a difference by attending protests, writing letters, and joining organizations (as I've written before on this site), but feel limited as to what we can do.
The Americans I know are not apathetic, do not fall for the catapulted propaganda, and have not retreated into computer relationships or mindless TV. They come from all walks of life and include back-to-the-landers, native born backwoods kids who grew up using an outhouse, teachers, lawyers, musicians, artists, secretaries, and many others. Some are even wingnut Christians and conservatives, although most are more liberal. Not included are CEOs and powermongers.
My sincere hope is that "regular" people like my friends and family will survive the current onslaught and go on to pass their knowledge, skills, and wisdom to future generations. For what it's worth, my advice to readers here is to cultivate your own garden, reach out to others with love and kindness, stay intellectually and physically active, try to find ways to grow emotionally, learn something new as often as possible, and take care of each other.
Government has always been both a help and a hindrance; the one we have now is worse than most, but in general I believe We The People can overcome. Even Pandora's box held hope.
re: fpal 4:05
Why else create and support dictators like the Shah of Iran, the House of Saud in Saudi Arabia, Pinochet in Chile, Ferdinand Macros of the Philippines, Suharto in Indonesia, etc.
If this is a question?
I have an answer, if indeed it is a question.
We support those governments which do our bidding. Dictators are easier to support because you only have to buy a few people. With democracies you have to buy everyone, and that's too expensive, there's no profit.
Freedom is an American value, but it only applies to Americans and selected others who shall not be named because any criticism of them brings on rapid and rabid denunciations of biblical proportions.
I find it offensive that we celebrate Columbus Day. First of all, we're not even sure he "discovered" America. It is said that several other Europeans have made it here before; Columbus just took the credit. And second, proclaiming that he "discovered America" is offensive to the millions of people who had been living here for thousands of years before his arrival. I think there are plenty of other historical figures that we'd be better off honoring that Columbus.
Do you think we should celebrate Columbus? http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=661
feedback=soulfood !..rock on...!happy to be,here..
Thank you fpal. I agree that basic human rights, as written in the Declaration of Independence, must apply equally to all peoples everywhere on the planet. It would be a good place to start - AGAIN!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Generally, Carrol has done a good piece here in that it starts the discussion of how we got to this point and where do we go from here. I think what is needed is a monumental paradigm shift when considering the purpose and path of the human race as a whole. After all, we are ALL in this leaky boat together. Anyone or anything that does not contribute to keeping the poat afloat needs to be thrown overboard.
I don't have the answer, of course. I do believe that nothing of any significance is going to change unless there is a major event that wakes EVERY American up. And I think that event(s) is coming. Whether it an attack on Iran, marshal law being declared, an econmomic melt down, or a combination of events is really beside the point. It's coming and we ALL need to focus on how we will react and act until the dust clears.
It's best to prepare on a community level first. Get to know your neighbors and what local resources can be accessed. Put your dollars into essentials, food, and items for barter. Don't forget the veggie seeds. Move ALL of your money, including IRA's, out of banks and put them with your local credit unions NOW. Plan a garden, preferably community gardens in public spaces.
And don't forget to vote for Kucinich in the primaries.
And keep in touch.
Peace
LeeAnn: Your community is truely exceptional!
Thank you for your great posting littlem85.
Wa aleykum salaam.
Human beings have a tendency of being nasty to one another. It is in our genes. That's why our leaders always betray us. But we need leaders, because we are social beings and we love to believe the other. Frankly, we get it off on being angry about the bastards that push us around. We have known how this works for quite a while and that is why democracy was invented, to be able to replace our leaders when they start to exaggerate their nastiness. But democracy has been corrupted by sheer power and at the moment it is nothing more than a very sick joke. Example: we give the Palestinians free elections and when they elect Hamas, we tell them: sorry, wrong party, you shall be punished for using your democratic rights. Now how do we expect the Palestinians to embrace democracy after such a farce?
We cannot change our ways – well, we can, but we're not up to it – but we can change the impact of our failings. As said by others, the present answer seems to be: localize it. We have to get rid of globalization and create sustainable communities that can function in ecological balance with their environment. I know this sounds pretty scary: help, isolation! But we have created a number of useful tools that can easily uphold our interconnectedness while we are in the process of downscaling and getting to know our actual neighbours. I mean, we can still email one another. And the good news is: we don't have to love one another. We don't have to become brothers. We can happily hate each other's guts. As long as we don't hurt the other, we are entitled to every imperfect politically incorrect thought. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
"Does all of this reveal a deeper flaw in our moral narrative itself?"
The narrative "flaw" begins long before, with the assumption that evolved intelligence equals "good." History, of course, proves otherwise. Instead of admitting we're a violent, emotional species with more smarts than self-control, we struggle to constantly convince ourselves of the opposite, no matter how high the bodies pile up.
Like an alcoholic, until we willingly accept and face our "deeper flaw," no solution is possible.
whitewatersally: "bravery is born from fear and the act of overcoming it."
Posting on this website is not bravery. But let's not get too excited. Most of us on here are comfortable, sitting at work or home, grumpy armchair dissidents trying to say the smart thing, the right thing, amidst so much madness and stupidity ...in the world and, on some days, right here on comondreams.org. Bravery? That implies danger. Even if you're fool enough to type out something crazy that'll sic Uncle Sam's secret police on you, there's still no real danger because a fool has no fear.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a fool or a coward. No, you're just here like me, mulling things over in a "public" forum. Bickering or patting each other on the back. It amounts to the chat you'd have at your neighborhood pub over a few pints, and often feels nearly as drunk. Don't believe for an instant that it's something "good" to be chatting here. At best it's neutral. But hell, it is a better exercise than a lot of the other options there are for killing time.
Chuck Cliff -
You need to check out people like the Cherokee and the Seminoles. Look up a real history of Andrew Jackson, and find out that the $20 bill celebrates a man who advocated genocide of US citizens. When did Native USAns lose the Mississippi basin, the heartland of US agriculture? Find out when these happened relative to the 1860s. The post 1865 era may have been worse in terms of percent of remaining Native USAns killed per year (relative to the remaining population), largely due to the fact that white US had reached the coast. Most of the bad stuff happened earlier. Smallpox infested blankets, anyone?
When Columbus landed on a Caribbean island to "discover" America in 1492,a genrous Native people greeted him warmly with food,water,and other gifts. It was there first incounter with Empire. Columbus wroye in his log:
They ..brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things,which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks'bells. They willingly traded everything they owned...They were well-built,with good bodies and handsome features...They do not bear arms,and do not know them,for I showed them a sword,they took it by the edgeand cut themselves out of ignorance.They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane...They would make fine servants... With fifty men we could subjugate themall and make them do whatever we want... They are so naive and so free with there possessions that no one who has not witnessed them would not believe it.When you ask for something they have,they never say no.To the contrary,they offerto share with anyone...As soon as I arrived in theIndies,on the first Island which I found,I took some of the nativesby force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts.
This from" The Great Turning" by David C .Korten
workreno: Excellent quote! The natives attitude is wonderful! And disproves many of the prior posters' thesis that humans are basically bad. I think your quote points up the fact that SOME humans are bad. It isn't the DNA that makes us good or bad humans. It's whether we are truely civilized or not. Obviously, Columbus and those that followed were the true savages, not civilized men.
stilba,ANY act,no matter how great or how small should ever be discounted ! am i a fool ?answer:YES,BUT NOW I AM A FOOL WITH A FORUM,and a smart,tough likeminded audience,it feels foolishly comforting......... on to the topic of columbus......COLUMBUS DAY=A CELEBRATION OF GENOCIDE...
More Disturbing Facts Brought to you from our sponsors the Bu$hCo Crime Syndicate….
"Two Million Iraq Deaths,
Eight Million Bush Asian Holocaust Deaths And Media Holocaust Denial" [Excerpt]
By Dr Gideon Polya
07 October, 2007
IT GETS WORSE. The total death toll in the Bush I and Bush II Asian Wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon) now totals 8 million (EIGHT MILLION as summarized below (for a detailed and documented breakdown see "United State Terrorism. 8 million Deaths & Media Holocaust Denial: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/17139/42/ ):
1. US-backed Apartheid Israeli occupation of Lebanon (much of the 1978-2006 period) [0.07 million] – 1978-2000 excess deaths in Lebanon totalled 60,000; about 10,000 violent killings by Israelis or Israeli surrogates occurred in the period 1978-2006.
2. US-backed Apartheid Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza (1967-2007) [0.31 million] – 1957-2007 excess deaths in the Occupied Palestinian Territory totalled about 0.3 million; about 10,000 Palestinians were violently killed (5,000 in the 2000-2007 Second Intifada period alone).
3. US Gulf War (1990-1991) [0.2 million] – an estimated 0.2 million violent Iraqi deaths due to the Bush I Gulf War.
4. US Sanctions War (1990-2003) [1.7 million] – an estimated 1.7 million Iraqi excess deaths occurred in the period 1990-2003 under the Bush I-Clinton I-Bush II Sanctions; the number of under-5 infant deaths in this period totalled 1.2 million (roughly 90% of these deaths were avoidable).
5. US Afghanistan War (2001-2007) [3.2 million] - excess deaths from UN Population Division data total 2.5 million; however excess deaths determined from under-5 infant deaths and dividing by 0.7 total 3.2 million (see "Layperson's Guide to Counting Iraq Deaths" on MWC News: http://mwcnews.net/content/view/5872/26/ ).
6. US Iraq War (2003-2007) [2.0 million] – 1.2 million post-invasion violent deaths (from the latest UK ORB survey) plus 0.8 million post-invasion non-violent excess deaths (from UNICEFunder-5 year old infant mortality data; see #5 above).
7. Global opiate drug-related deaths due to US actions [0.5 million] - 0.1 million people die each year around the world (0.6 million over 6 years) from opiate drug-related causes. Accordingly, about 0.5 million have died avoidably since 9/11 from opiate drug-related causes due to the UK-US restoration of the Taliban-destroyed Afghan opium industry from about 5% of world market share in 2001 to a current 93% (see UN Office on Drugs and Crime, UNODC, 2007 World Drug Report).
We can thus assess the human cost of the Bush I and Bush II Asian Wars at 0.06 + 0.31 + 0.2 + 1.7 + 3.2 + 2.0 + 0.5 million = 8 million.
Hey Rebel Farmer long time...no see.
What's up doc?
namvet67, "it's pretty clear today that the Muslims of the world are the Native Americans of America's birth."
--
Clear to whom? It's clear if that's your mindset. The American Indians were murdered in a brutal genocide. This was their land and we took it. I hate it, it makes me sick and it's also the way it's always been throughout history. One group comes in, ransacks, loots and kills the inhabitants of another. It happend all over Europe, it happened in ancient times, it even happened with tribal societies in pre-civilzation times, where one tribe would completely exterminate another tribe.
The situation in the Middle-East is complicated and more complicated with endless political and religious strife and the situation with the American Indians was pretty simple. We wanted their land and we took it. They didn't attack us, for the most part, we attacked them. I'm sorry. I don't see the Iranian government and particularly the active Jihaddists as innocent victims. Many middle easterners, including Ahmadinejad, hate the jews with a vengeance. One minute they're denying that the holocaust ever happened, the next they say their only complaint with Hitler is that he didn't kill all the jews. It's a well known fact. Iran is in Iraq, a country that they don't give a hoot about, arming the insurgents and attacking our soldiers.
I hate that we went into Iraq to begin with. I was always against it. I hate the way our American government has gone. It once strove for freedom, now it strives for material conquest in the name of freedom, while keeping us all slaves.
But please don't compare the Native Americans with the modern Middle East. It's rife with propaganda.
Just like Goldfinger, Columbus loved gold.
However, unlike Goldfinger, he did not love only gold. He loved Christianity more than gold. He wanted to spread the Christian faith over the entire planet.
With respect to his faith, he had a more specific project than spreading the Christian gospel to all four corners of the world: he wanted to launch another crusade in order to conquer and "liberate" Jerusalem. To that end, he needed funds, and the "Indies," he thought, were going to supply him with the requisite gold. (This is stated explicitly in the December 26, 1492 entry of his travel log.)
In other words, Columbus killed, enslaved, maimed, and pillaged for Christ and to realize his great crusade.
Doesn't it sound familiar?
(For all the evidence, see Tzvetan Todorov, The Conquest of America: the above facts are laid out in the first chapter.)
ROCK ON WHITEWATERSALLY!!! I'm myspace.com/stopthesuffering
milesofmusic:
I wholly appreciate your tying together the essential understandings required of any real political awakening in the US: the installation of the unaccountable Federal Reserve Board and their printing currency charged with immediate interest to the American public in 1913; the devaluation of US currency, the flight of wealth outside the US, and purposeful destruction of the US economy in order to soften us up for accepting the Amero currency to be shared with Canada and Mexico; BushCo., Rev. Moon and other neo cons purchasing their 100,000 acre plus getaways in the fascist-haven of Paraguay; the economic narrative that explains more of American history than any self serving nationalisitic story of the "triumph" of morality; and the need for people to unplug themselves from FOX "News" and its cheap fix of "reality" teevee shows that keep us doped up and apolitical.
Like you, I've got hope; but as many posters here like dcbeltway and KEM PATRICK have opined, things will have to get a lot worse and immediate for the people of the US to respond.
I agree with correctivelens that "we have a long, long way to go with the "masses." Opposition to this administration is not stronger because the public is not required any immediate sacrifice (we put the war on the credit card, don't instigate a draft, etc.). If we want to wake the masses up, then promote a draft or pass legislation that requires a balanced war budget, including tax increases. The public responds to immediate incentives so we must form our government to make the public feel a war immediately."
We need to make people PAY for the war in real time. Bush's charge card is overlimit and must be cancelled.
I am an elected officer for a small union chapter (300 members). But whenever we meet for executive board meetings, or meetings with the officers of other chapters, I give away paired copies of the DVD Zeitgeist and Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine: The Rise Of Disaster Capitalism." I've given away 20 sets so far, with an accompanying speech about how democratic values and social safety nets are in free fall across the globe. The UltraWealthy are engaged in an endrun on the peoples of the world. I recite Klein's argument that unionism and strong civil societies were allowed to prosper in Western Europe after WWII ONLY because the Bankers needed to have a persuasive countermodel to the Soviet system. Now that communism is no more, there is a no-holds-barred fight to the bottom for the Elites. It's all about maximum profit regardless of human cost. The more fearful, impoverished, overworked, and physically ill we are, the less able we'll be to mount any meaningful resistance. This is why there was no comparable "Marshall Plan" for Yeltsin's Russia and none for Iraq. Just pure laissez faire capitalism -- a loaded term which means profits will be privatized and all the costs socialized -- a government by and for the (fictitious) Corporate Person.
In any event, my hope is that the National Educators Association will give up on George Miller, Nancy Pelosi, and all the other dimocratic scoundrels who are intent on reauthorizing an even worse version of NCLB. The Educational Testing Service is making millions on all this mandatory testing (that is being used to destroy public education), and they own Congress with their contributions. I ask my higher-ups: "When will our union abandon the democrats and endorse candidates from a third party like the Greens?"
Columbus Day equals celebration of genocide? Nonsense. It equals Day Off if you happen to get it off. Otherwise, it equals little more than a scribble in the box on your calendar.
A great deal of the above discussion is way out of proportion. Columbus was 500 years ago. We may as well argue about the atrocities of Alexander of Macedon. It's anachronistic that the October Day Off for working Yanks is named after some old conqueror from another age, and I'd certainly vote to change it to Halloween, but getting upset over it is strange in light of the more pressing matters all around us.
Stilba: You are totally out of line. This article discusses American history and what we can learn from it. Basically this country was "discovered" by a genocidal maniac, and was followed by Europeans that practiced genocide agains the first nation populations here. And now Americans are practicing genocide on Muslims by invading sovereign nations. I think there is something to learn from all this. And most of the posters here seem to agree. So go take your trival comments about genecide that you seem to equate with your stupid day off and stuff it somewhere we don't have to see.
Hi Simon! I had to take a break from posting because I get so depressed about everything sometimes. It's getting so damn scary, it's hard to breath. But I'm OK now. Pretty much resigned to what looks inevitable at this point. Stocking up on dog food and other essentials.
Peace
Excuses, excuses, excuses! For 45 years, I have worked with the Soviets and Russians! It was obvious to me as early as 1960 that they were not the enemies of the United States. As for our "celebrations" of such idiocy as "Columbus Day," it has only to do with the same political lies, deceipt, and carpetbagging for which the US has been indicted since the beginning.
I was raised (since April of 1945) near the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota. It was obvious then that extermination (it was then called "assimilation") of Native populations was the direct, expressed policy of the US government.
And today, thanks to freaks, demons, and the rest of the Bushits/neocons/politicians of both blue and red, all the experience gained since 1945 is scorned, mocked, derided, and wasted! Bah! The US doesn't stand for anything decent any more!
First, we are not sure that Columbus even discovered America. There is evidence that others before him have made it across the Atlantic before, but didn't get the credit. Second, there are much more important figures that we should honor, instead of a Spaniard who was eventually responsible for the deaths of millions of Indians.
Do you think we should be celebrating Columbus? http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=661
Stilba,
The discovery of America by Columbus, with all it's fabled heroic trappings, is a major factor of the American psyche. To analyze and expose the myth for what it is, is to help understand the current "course of empire", that still dominates US policy.
If a garden is contaminated with noxious weeds, it helps to know the source of the original seeds.
Rebel Farmer..
Yeah I've been trying to stock up, but not on dog food; but on sanity. It seems the current war madness has more twists and turns to yet unfold...good to see you back on deck!
In the name of God, the All Merciful, the Mercy-giving
Fpal, If we use the rational thought that God has given us, and we look around at our situation as human beings today we must come to certain conclusions.
1. We were not created by chance. If you spend 5 minutes studying physics or astronomy NOTHING is chance, and everything comes about only with precision that we, humans, can barely even comprehend. So, I think it is safe to presume we were created by a Being that is in control of us/ creation in general.
2. If we were created by a Being, then we certainly we not created to relax and have fun: Look around you, life is hard, it's difficult, it's a lot of grief and trials. This life is clearly NOT heaven, it is a place of tests.
3. So, what are we being tested with? Just look at the present issues we are dealing with, are we going to stand up and uphold the truth, justice, and try to end the madness of killing and genocide? I loved what you said in your previous comment and totally agree with you. But why do you care? Do you feel accountable, an inner need to say it like it is or a conscious objection to the wrongs being perpetrated?
4. I think your answer is yes, from what you said in your previous comment. So if we are being tested and we are filled with this compulsion to uphold what is just and right and true…and we feel we will be held accountable (indeed, we want those monsters reeking havoc all over the globe to be accountable, so we better be prepared ourselves for accountability)…then it pushes one to think about their existence.
5. That should lead, logically, a person to know that God, who created us, is going to be the One holding us accountable. We are on this earth for a short time (90 years max) and then we die. People who feel no sense of accountability and feel that God died for their sins commit atrocities like we see now because they are arrogant and think they have salvation. That is NOT how it works. There is no such thing as having salvation. That belief goes against logic and life as we see it. Each individual is responsible for their actions, they will be judged by God, and then will have an eternity of punishment or reward. No one has the right to say they will be "saved" or whatever, because that's not how it works. If you strive to do "good" (broad, subjective term, I know) and by that I mean trying to be a just person, and strive toward that end, that is what counts.
6. If you do not believe in God you are committing the biggest act of injustice by not recognizing the reality of your existence. And, like I said before, how can a person feel accountability and act responsibly if they will have no consequences?
7. If all I said above is true (and obviously I believe it ; ) than wouldn't it be especially harsh if God did not give us any guidelines to live by? I believe He did and that he preserved His guideline in a book called the Quran and delivered to the last messenger to humanity, the Prophet Muhammad, peace on him. Islam, contrary to common perception is NOT an organized religion at all. It's a personal, individual choice, between the person and God and no one has a right to bud in. Its creed is quite simple: Believe in God as One, his prophets (NOT divine), Judgment Day and Heaven and Hell. You do that by being a just person and striving to uphold it and work to make this short time on life a wholesome place for us and people to come.
Hope that answers your question…Sorry I know it's long…I tend to be long-winded ; )
falazmah wrote:
a Spaniard who was eventually responsible for the deaths of millions of Indians.
Or was Cristobal Colombo an Italian Jew (converso), for all that matters...just to take this dicussion far off topic and stimulate a few anti-Semites. Actually he was just a cruel, stupid bastard, typical of many of those who are at the helm and are the driving forces of our (Western, European, American) "civilization". To this day.
I get so frustrated with this talk of "we." We (the majority of people signed on to this website), have no connection to the criminals in office. No connection to Columbus, none to Abe Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, Jefferson Davis, the Puritans of old Boston, what have you. We are not responsible for 300 million people, all being born and raised LOCALLY.
It is time to do the "American" thing.
Become Indigenous. Contrary to the whimsical fancy of political correctness, 95% of the people within the U.S. boundary are Native American. Not Sioux, of course, or Seneca, Arapaho, but certainly new Chicago, Albany, San Bernadino, or any made up names which "we" might prefer. This is my nation, one of several thousand set up across this broad land. I am not the inevitable end of a line of mass murder, rape, bigotry, prejudice, fear, and shopping malls. We have no national identity that is separate from corporate identity. We are using the esablishment's take on our common history, and setting up all talking points from that national falsehood. That is, as a prototype American, am I responsible for the military jingo next door as well as the violent yahoo a thousand miles away, just because we both have an opinion of the Civil War and have shopped in a Walmart?
Columbus Day?
I know my family and friends ignore it.
I bet it's the same everywhere.
Even in Alaska and Hawaii.
If we keep ignoring the Soviet, jesus, some lucky day it might dissolve into the nothingness it has always been.
Now to get rid of the 35,000 nuclear warheads that "we" have accumulated.