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New Details In The Blackwater Shootings Don't Mesh With Firm's Version
It started out as a family errand: Ahmed Haithem Ahmed was driving his mother, Mohassin, to pick up his father from the hospital where he worked as a pathologist. As they approached Nisour Square at midday on Sept. 16, they did not know that a bomb had gone off nearby or that a convoy of four armored vehicles carrying Blackwater guards armed with automatic rifles was approaching.
Moments later a bullet tore through Ahmed's head, he slumped, and the car rolled forward. Then Blackwater guards responded with a barrage of gunfire and explosive weapons, leaving 17 dead and 24 wounded - a higher toll than previously thought, according to Iraqi investigators.
Interviews with 12 Iraqi eyewitnesses, several Iraqi investigators and a U.S. official familiar with a U.S. investigation of the Sept. 16 shootings offer new insights into the gravity of the incident in Nisour Square. And they are difficult to square with the explanation offered initially by Blackwater officials that their guards were responding proportionately to an attack on the streets around the square.
The new details include these:
-- A deadly cascade of events began when a single bullet apparently fired by a Blackwater guard killed an Iraqi man whose weight probably remained on the accelerator and propelled the car forward as the passenger, the man's mother, clutched him and screamed.
-- The car continued to roll toward the convoy, which responded with an intense barrage of gunfire in several directions.
-- Minutes after that shooting stopped, a Blackwater convoy moved north from the square and opened fire on another line of traffic a few hundred yards away, in a previously unreported separate incident, investigators and witnesses say.
The car in which the first people were killed did not begin to closely approach the Blackwater convoy until the Iraqi driver had been shot in the head and lost control of his vehicle. Not one witness heard or saw any gunfire coming from Iraqis around the square.
As the gunfire continued, at least one of the Blackwater guards began screaming, "No! No! No!" and gesturing to his colleagues to stop shooting, according to an Iraqi lawyer who was stuck in traffic and was soon shot in the back as he tried to flee. The account of the struggle among the Blackwater guards corroborates preliminary findings of the U.S. investigation.
Still, although the series of events pieced together by the Iraqis may be correct, important elements could still be missing from that account, according to the U.S. official familiar with the ongoing U.S. investigation into the shootings.
Among the questions still to be answered, the official said, is whether at any time during the incident nearby Iraqi security forces ever began firing, possibly leading the Blackwater convoy to believe they were under attack and therefore justified in returning fire.
Blackwater has said that its guards were fired upon and responded appropriately.
The Blackwater convoy was in the square to control traffic for a second convoy that was approaching from the south. The second convoy was bringing diplomats who had been evacuated from a meeting after a bomb went off near the compound where the meeting was taking place.
The incident in the square began with a short burst of bullets that witnesses described as unprovoked. A traffic policeman, Sarhan Thiab, saw that a young man in a car had been hit. In the line of traffic, that car was third in line from the intersection where the convoy had positioned itself.
"We tried to help him," Thiab said. "I saw the left side of his head was destroyed and his mother was crying out, 'My son, my son. Help me, help me.' "
Another traffic policeman rushed to the driver's side to try to get her son out of the car, but the car was still rolling forward, according to a taxi driver close by who gave his name as Abu Mariam.
Then Blackwater guards opened fire with a barrage of bullets, according to the police and numerous witnesses. Ahmed's mother, Mohassin Kadhim, appears to have been shot to death as she cradled her son in her arms. Moments later the car caught on fire after the Blackwater guards fired a grenade into the vehicle.
The taxi driver was a few feet ahead of Mohassin Kadhim's car when he heard the first gunshots. He was aware of cars behind him trying to back out of the street or turn around and drive away from the square. He tried frantically to turn his car but ran into the curb.
He pulled himself over to the passenger side, opened the door and crawled out, flattening his body to the ground. He said his left leg was shot.
Cars were struggling to get out of the line of fire and many people were abandoning their vehicles altogether. The scene turned hellish.
"The shooting started like rain; everyone escaped his car," said Fareed Walid Hassan, a truck driver.
He saw a woman dragging her child. "He was around 10 or 11. He was dead. She was pulling him by one hand to get him away. She hoped that he was still alive," he said.
"Some people were trying to escape by crawling, some people were killed in front of me," said Jabber Salman, a lawyer on his way to the Ministry of Justice.
As Salman tried to drive away from the shooting, bullets hit his neck, shoulders, left forearm and lower back.
Iraqi investigators believe that during the incident, Blackwater helicopters flew overhead and fired into the cars from above. They say that at least one of the car roofs had bullet holes through them.
Minutes after the first shootings, a Blackwater convoy arrived at the other side of the square, where civilian traffic was also backed up, and shot into cars, according to an Iraqi official who is a member of the investigative committee set up by the Iraqi government.
"I found three people from that incident in Khadimiya hospital, one died and two were injured," the Iraqi official said.
© 2007 The New York Times
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44 Comments so far
Show AllCondi's gangsters remind me of the SS.
How can America ever be safe with this bunch on the loose.
what did we expect? Erik Prince to tell the truth?
Erik Prince is a born again Christian Fundamentalist (read TERRORIST) that believes he should kill anyone that prevents or hurts Christianity. And he is sponsored by the born-again idiot in the WH that has placed his group above any law, including the US law. This is going to be a future problem for the citizens of the US.
"This is going to be a future problem for the citizens of the US." And the world.
Coming to a theater near you.
Hey! How about peaceful protest folks? How's that workin'?Maybe I'll write a letter to the folks in the White house and ask them politely to please stop killing brown skinned third world peasants. Think that will work?
The time for pacifism isn't here yet. There is work to be done. Pacifism is just what they want us to be practising because it isn't working. Pacifism will only work when all parties agree to it. As long as the dominant culture exists, there will not be an agreement to peace.
These fuckin' people....everytime they break the law they deny any wrong doing. Bush can't recall any mistakes.... can you say sociopathic nation? Can you say disconnect?
The wrong people are being killed.....diplomats are protected by jock meat-head "soldiers" of fortune (mercenaries - read hired killers).I mean look at these goons- all steroided-up and give 'em fully automatic weapons and munitions....great. It's the high school football team with guns. I feel confident that they are able to make good decisions.....Getting paid to pump iron, take "performance enhancing drugs", and shoot people woithout recourse. It's like a fuckin' video game to assholes.
Okay! gotta run. Need to buy some candles for that peace vigil......
Gandhi need not be worshipped: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366194.shtml
Seems that the bush administration has finally found a battle cry: "Kill em all, let god sort it out"
"New Details In The Blackwater Shootings Don't Mesh With Firm's Version" Well, that's weird.
Reading about these shooting reminds me of an incident in Somalia. "Mogadishu" and Blackhawk Down.
It is a as if these Blackwater people had seen the movie too many times or perhaps they are survivors of the incident. It is as if they are suffering from some type of siege psychosis...I don't know.
It is a tragedy, both for the people in Iraq and how it reflects on the U.S. military personnel and America as a whole.
It's not a tragedy. Blackwater isn't military personnel. They're mercenaries. The Iraqis should kill as many as they can. I wish them well in that endeavor. Hired killers should be killed.
Naomi Wolf in The Rise of Fascism in America
and in her book, "The End of America", A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, which outlines ten steps that "fascist, totalitarian, and other repressive leaders [employ to] seize and maintain power, especially in what were once democracies." The ten steps are:
1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
2. Create a gulag [Guantanamo, 800 FEMA jails etc]
3. Develop a thug caste [BLACKWATER]
4. Set up an internal surveillance system
5. Harass citizens' groups
6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
7. Target key individuals
8. Control the press
9. Dissent equals treason
10. Suspend the rule of law [Habeous Corpus and Geneva is
too quaint]
APPARENTLY AMERICA HAS ARRIVED
ALL 10 ARE OCCURRING
Everyone should read or reread George Orwell's 1984. It was written in 1942 and it lays out the socio-economic reasons for endless war better than anyone with a string of letters after his name has done. If you read the book, it will all become clear to you.
They say fight them over there or fight them here. They're right...sort of. When Blackwater is done there, I am sure they will be more than happy to employ their skills here as an augmentation to our local police departments. And, of course with the same degreee of unaccountability they are enjoying in Iraq. Congress is proposing legislation that is supposed to hold them accountable. A private militia directly or indirectly funded by the government should'nt exist at all. As long as they do exist this country will be thier tool to use as they please. I read somewhere they were patrolling the streets of New Orleans following the levy collaspe, armed with sub-machine guns. End the contracts, fine them heavily, toss a few execs in prison. Also, it is about time this government was held accountable. How can a government be permitted by the world's courts and nations to so casually destroy another nation, killing thousands or maybe millions? Who benefits from that? And, who besides the victims will pay for it?
We're going to have to let your world die. Between the disease, rapid climate change and willing suicide of other humans as shown in this article, we can only conclude the vast majority of you are not worthy of joining our community in physical form. You let day to day life happen as long as the events far away do not impact on your individual life. You take no action at all to stop the death of your world.
.
We'll pick up a few good people after they have died. If you want to be considered for pickup you need to show it by working for peace, albeit a worthless endeavor for humanity, one which will show your personal worth to us. Every good thing you do to stop the suicide of humanity will help earn you a better chance of a place with us.
.
Have you done something helpful so far?
Meanwhile......back on planet earth....
penningt.david,
My thoughts too. Blackwater needs to fight them over there in order to prepare to fight us, the potential troublemakers whining about the constitution and democracy and other such nonsense, over here. And no one better call them Brownshirts when they do start patrolling our streets! They will be much better armed and more ruthless and lethal than the Brownshirts ever were.
In Mechanical Engineering terms "Black Water" literally means "sewage"
Seems to hold true for rich frat boy mecenaries as well.
I am usually against the death penalty, but I would make an exception for Erik Price
These were the same guys running amok in Post-Katrina New Orleans. We better hope and do something so that things changes drastically before more environemental shit/ terrorism hits the fan and people are manipulated into yet another degradation of whats left of democracy. It is said that things in Canada happen the same as the US, but with a 20 year lag. So we are now going through the Reagan/Bush years with President-trigger happy right-wing christian-Harper. only 13 years or so to friendly fascism... yipee fuckin-doo
"Now let's not quibble over who killed who".
John Cleese's character in The Holy Grail after he butchered a large number of people.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Mr Prince's expression tells it all.
I'm pretty sure that Prince character is Milo Minderbinder. John Vogit is an old man now but "Catch 22" was a prophetic piece of art that is coming true with a vengeance.
The Department of Homeland Security is negotiating a no-fault contract with Blackwater and its ilk as we speak. They're working with the State Department on the right way to administer the contract.
Simonhhh reference to Nami Wolfe's book and list are right on.
After all, we couldn't have those "illegal immigrant detention centers" built by Halliburton go unused, can we?
Do you suppose this war could have been about weakening the National Guard units so they would be unable to protect the citizens of their home states from such depredations?
Naaaaah! Couldn't be......... could it?
Since Blackwater seems immune from military laws and civilian laws and can murder with impunity, then it follows that they in turn can find themselves on the receiving end of similar action, with no consequences.
Who will the Congress believe--the eyewitnesses or these lying sacks of shit? Two guesses.
Hey curmudgeon99
In point (1.) Stalin was frightening the shit out of ordinary Russians with 'sleeper cells'. Hitler had it in for the communists and the 'pesky' Semites; suspending the constitution, forcibly suppressed all political opposition and brought the Nazis to power. He enforced policies with a brutal secret police (Gestapo) and formed concentration camps for the organized murder of Jews, Gypsies and political opponents....
There are other examples, but fast forward the clock to 2007 America...Bu$hCo have been frightening the 'bejesus' out of ordinary Americans with Islamo fascism and Iran mullahs etc...[Big pot calling the little tiny pot BLACK]....
I mean how disingenuous is Congress to think about legislation to hold 'Murkywater accountable NOW... After 4 years of allowing terror and infamy to rain down on the poor hapless Iraqi civilian by these Gun Happy Murkywaster war criminals...
"Who will the Congress believe–the eyewitnesses or these lying sacks of shit? Two guesses????" Eric Prince is a silver spooning, elitist, poncing panderer from Way Way back....multi-generational sacks of shit...make no mistake about it...
THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN FACADE and hiding behindit....Ask yourself one question would Jesus have organized a mercenary army to wantonly kill innocent civilians??????????
The entire State Department could stay home and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference: excepting the death count would drop. They can all go sign their papers and have their parties and play sissy-games with each other after the pipelines are built and the stolen oil is flowing southward. No need to murder decent people simply to move a bunch of useless 'diplomats' around in a city they don't belong in to begin with.
It seems to me that "an eye for an eye" is appropriate here.
I should add, that it is appropriate in the justice system to send all of these fuckers to the electric chair and "let God sort them out."
MORE EVIDENCE:
Seymour Hersh: Bush 'Has Accepted Ethnic Cleansing' in Iraq
By Charles Hawley and David Gordon Smith, Der Spiegel. Posted October 1, 2007.
Interview: Investigative journalist Seymour Hersh talks about Bush's Vietnam, Iran's nuclear ambitions and how the US press failed the First Amendment.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/63986/
Alright, enough is enough. F%$k these Blackwater hacks. They are a bunch of pusillanimous bullies w/ high-powered guns and low-powered brains. I thought US special forces were supposed to be "real" men, as most of these dipshits are former special forces, but it seems they are really just psychotic pieces of crap who need a good ass kicking. Take away the guns and what do you have? Sub-human children on steroids. Next thing you know these jackals will be patrolling our streets shooting US citizens and the State Department can dole out hush money on American soil (Oh yeah, that already happened. See FEMA's handling of the post-Katrina disaster).
When do we start the war crimes trials? Come on... tick, tick, tick.... that pacemaker in Cheney blood pumping organ won't last forever.
the american people have 'paid'for blackwater and a whole parade of other private contractors,blackwater,titan,triplecanopy,cica,etc...with funds garnered from the american people and misappropriated by bush.with so many(titan and caci hired to torture at abu garib)how do we sort it all out?who did what ?speaker of the louse,nancy pelosi just handed over 150 more billion dollars over to the pirates in the white house,when she should have demanded to know where the all the previous 'missing'billions of dollars belonging to america have gone...by now,the true bush agenda should be obvious to all=piracy,stealing the wealth and resources of the american people...stealing the wealth and resources of the iraqi people..stealing the resources of afganistan...americans can afford to pay several firms of high-priced hired KILLERS,but our 'representatives'on capitol hill,swear that we cannot afford national healthcare or a decent education for our own people.
PS........that catchall phrase"its money to support our troops" is total nonsense,out of billions or even trillions of dollars,bush might throw a couple of pennies at 'our'troops,just to keep (the lie) the cash cow,flowing.....
""Now let's not quibble over who killed who".
John Cleese's character in The Holy Grail after he butchered a large number of people"
Not only that but "This should be an 'appy occasion".
I can't help but consider that one Blackwater voice yelling,"No No No" and trying to stop the shooting. Our military and mercenaries that are forbidden by the Geneva Conventions do not belong in Iraq. There is no way to occupy this nation without doing continuing harm to its people. The only way to police Iraq is to replace these forces with UN Middle East forces as quickly as possible. And get those mercs out of there now. Period.
This guy looked like he just stepped out of his SS uniform.
Tho' what could one expect from someone who also founded an organization called "FREIHEIT"? (Arbeit Macht Frei was taken.)
Blackwater is typical of Police operations - you deny what happened and compose your story and make it all sound justifiable. I have seen this type of rational go on before. Nothing will happend to Blackwater, the company and its personel are out of control, the country is in civil war. Why America won't wake up an realize it. A Fox News Person said "are we supposed to wait until we get fired upon to defend ourselves?" America is now under control of large Corporations and folks with money and power. We dont stand a chance against this and Blackwater will continue to get Billions of our tax dollars, and what do we get for it.
I am amazed at the cowardice of this "war". The ones who got us into it were mostly chicken hawks. And Blackwater's people display amazing cowardice, can you imagine real soldiers blowing away everything in its path because a car was coming at them.
Prince was instrumental in starting Dobson's Focus on the Family. Lets raise our kids to be unquestioning sychophants.
"How do we sort it all out?who did what?"
Interesting question??? My belief is Bu$h, Cheney and other cronies have deliberately created such a horrendous MESS in absolutely every aspect of Government home and abroad that it will literally be impossible start unraveling the legal web of lies, subterfuge and mendacities....
Bu$hCo is a wrecking machine that has systematically destroyed both the fabric of American democracy and the integrity America's character...
[PS Current International polling supports this opinion..]
Dichterfreund October 3rd, 2007 8:11 pm
"This guy looked like he just stepped out of his SS uniform."
Absolutely correct...and it would be interesting to know the genealogy of the Prince Family Tree...Quite possibly the blue eyed blonde haired Aryan Race...ummm I notice brown eyes, must have been inbred with the gypsies..I never said I was perfect in my theories..
We,the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do...
Have the people who are "in charge" of this country drifted so far afield of the sentiments expressed in the preamble of the Constitution that we can no longer respect them as representatives of the popular will?
I think so.
Is it time for a new revolution?
I think so.
How do we proceed from here?
V?
09/23/07 "The Independent" -- - "The eruption of gunfire was sudden and ferocious, round after round mowing down terrified men women and children, slamming into cars as they collided and overturned with drivers frantically trying to escape. Some vehicles were set alight by exploding petrol tanks. A mother and her infant child died in one of them, trapped in the flames.
The shooting on Sunday, by the guards of the American private security company Blackwater, has sparked one of the most bitter and public disputes between the Iraqi government and its American patrons, and brings into sharp focus the often violent conduct of the Western private armies operating in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, immune from scrutiny or prosecution."
"A squadron of cavalry soon mounted,
Their comrades to rescue and save.
General Sully, he issued an order,
Applauding their conduct so brave.
And when from their wounds they recover,
Many years may they live to relate,
The fight that occurred in September,
In the year eighteen sixty-eight."
Myths from mayhem and murder!
A latter day Blood Meridian, another epic chronicle of amerika's limitless violence and depravity, a sort of mishmash of NAZI Lebensraum and Monroe Doctrine gone haywire as the latest band of gnat-brained drug-addled 'merkan marauders storm out of control in an unending orgy of mayhem and horror.
Like the carpet baggers and shylock war profiteers that let these dogs loose....the more things change in amerika the more they stay the same. Once again the bestial streak twisting through the fiber of this nation is plain for all the world to see as the blood and gore on Bush's filthy paws....plain that is for the rest of humanity but not for the pirates under that blood soaked star and bars rag that inspires disgust and nausea in the rest of humanity.
This time the ghouls of amerikan expansionism aren't dressed in skins and rags, but in Gucci, sporting Serenghetti shades, doused in designer brand aftershave, but the stink and stench of filth is the same that has been wafting from that cursed land since Cormac McCarthy documented the debauchery of amerika's "finest" on the Mexican border in the 1850's.
Your "destiny is manifest" alright and those that foment and justify these crimes will suffer the consequences.
".... the right of our manifest destiny to over spread and to possess the whole of the continent which Providence has given us for the development of the great experiment of liberty and federaltive development of self government entrusted to us. It is right such as that of the tree to the space of air and the earth suitable for the full expansion of its principle and destiny of growth." (Brinkley 352)
Manifest Destiny became a disputed philosophy. The following are two examples of the different views of the American people. This is evidence of the opposing attitudes towards the Manifest Destiny ideology. In a 1837 letter to Henry Clay, William E. Channing wrote:
"Did this country know itself, or were it disposed to profit by self-knowledge, it would feel the necessity of laying an immediate curb on its passion for extended territory.... We are a restless people, prone to encroachment, impatient of the ordinary laws of progress... We boast of our rapid growth, forgetting that, throughout nature, noble growths are slow..... It is full time that we should lay on ourselves serious, resolute restraint. Possessed of a domain, vast enough for the growth of ages, it is time for us to stop in the career of acquisition and conquest. Already endangered by our greatness, we cannot advance without imminent peril to our institutions, union, prosperity, virtue, and peace..... It is sometimes said, that nations are swayed by laws, as unfailing as those which govern matter; that they have their destinies; that their character and position carry them forward irresistibly to their goal;....
that ... the Indians have melted before the white man, and the mixed, degraded race of Mexico must melt before the Anglo-Saxon. Away with this vile sophistry! There is no necessity for crime. There is no fate to justify rapacious nations, any more than to justify gamblers and robbers, in plunder. We boast of the progress of society, and this progress consists in the substitution of reason and moral principle for the sway of brute force....We talk of accomplishing our destiny. So did the late conqueror of Europe (Napoleon) ; and destiny consigned him to a lonely rock in the ocean, the prey of ambition which destroyed no peace but his own."
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/E/ma.../ manif1.htm#coi
Ask yourselves who the real savages are now that the world has become the slaughter house of an "exceptional" amerika that knows no limits when it comes to wanton carnage and greed.
Pancho that's an excellent post...
If I read tomorrow that all these scumbags died in Iraq, I would not shed a tear.
May God grant them a sincere repentance or a quick death (that they may not plunge themselves even further into the fires of Hell).