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Israel's Toy Soldiers
If you are a young Muslim American and head off to the Middle East for a spell in a fundamentalist "madrassa," or religious school, Homeland Security will probably greet you at the airport when you return. But if you are an American Jew and you join hundreds of teenagers from Europe and Mexico for an eight-week training course run by the Israel Defense Forces, you can post your picture wearing an Israeli army uniform and holding an automatic weapon on MySpace.
The Marva program, part summer camp part indoctrination, was launched in Israel in 1981. It allows participants, who must be Jewish and between the ages of 18 and 28, to fire weapons, live in military barracks in the Negev desert and saunter around in an Israeli military uniform saluting and taking long hikes with military packs. The Youth and Education Corps of the Israel Defense Forces run four 120-strong training sessions a year.
"Upon arrival, the participants experience an abrupt change into army life: wearing uniforms, accepting army discipline, and learning the programs and lessons integral to the program," the Let Israelis Show You Israel Web site reads. "The program includes military content such as: navigation, field training, weapons training, shooting ranges, marches and more, as well as educational content such as: Zionism, Jewish Identity, history and knowledge of the land of Israel. All of this is taught in Hebrew in an intensive eight weeks."
"The participants finish the program after completing a short, intensive, exhilarating military experience that allows them to taste Israel in a way that they never could before-as part of the Israel Defense Forces," the site reads. "They leave the program with a feeling of belonging and a strong connection to Israel, and many return to Israel to continue the connection that was created in the framework of the Marva course."
There are, of course, gushing testimonials about the program.
"I spent the first few days of Marva doubting my decision, wondering why I had come, wondering if there was any way out. With all of the running, yelling orders, discipline and Hebrew, I felt horribly out of place," writes Canadian David Roth of his summer. "It was a completely different world from the one I was used to. All that changed, though, by the end of the first week. We had our first 'Masa' (Hike). It was very hard, but at the end, we all knew, our M16s were waiting for us at the 'tekes' (Ceremony). We got through the 8 kilometers and had our 'tekes' and got our guns. It felt amazing, and from that point on Marva was incredible."
How have we reacted when we discovered that American Muslims were being taught in a foreign country to fire machine guns at paper figures and simulate military maneuvers? And what about the summer schools in Gaza organized by Islamic Jihad designed to train young Palestinians in the basics of military life? These Gaza camps, uncovered in 2001, were widely denounced by Israel as proof that the Palestinians were teaching their children to hate and kill.
The argument in favor of camps in Israel, as opposed to camps in Pakistan, is that these young men and women are not going to come back and use what they have learned to harm Americans. They are not terrorists. Muslims, however, have not cornered the market on terrorism and violence. Radical Jews have also been involved in terrorist attacks in Israel and the United States.
I discovered an American in Israel in 1989 named Robert Manning. A huge, burly man, Manning was living in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Kiyrat Arba. When I found him he was carrying a pistol, a large knife strapped to his leg and an M-16 assault rifle. He was part of a Jewish terrorist group called Committee for Protection and Safety of the Highways that set up ad hoc roadblocks and pulled Palestinians from cars to beat and often shoot them. He was a follower of Meir Kahane, the leader of the Jewish Defense League, who was implicated in terrorist attacks in the United States and Israel. Manning served as a reservist in the Israel Defense Forces in the West Bank.
Manning was wanted in California for murder. He had been charged in a 1980 mail-bomb killing as part of his involvement in the Jewish Defense League. The bomb was intended for the owner of a local computer firm, but the package holding the device was opened by the firm's secretary, Patricia Wilkerson, who was killed instantly by the blast.
Manning, full of bluster and a bitter racism toward Arabs, used as his pseudonym the name of the FBI agent in charge of his case, a bit of humor that backfired on him by confirming my suspicion of his identify. I obtained the picture from his California driver's license and showed it to his neighbors at Kiyrat Arba. They identified him from the photo. I wrote an article affirming that Manning, heavily armed and an active member of the Israeli army, was living in a Jewish settlement. The Israeli government, until that moment, said it had no information about his location. He was extradited in 1993 and sentenced the next year to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for 30 years. He is in a maximum-security prison in Florence, Colo.
Those who go through the Marva summer program are indoctrinated as thoroughly as Muslims who go overseas and are told they are part of a greater jihad for Islam. The results, given Israel's close alliance with the United States, may not be negative for those in power in the United States, but it may be very negative for those Americans defined as the enemy, especially Muslims, should we suffer another 9/11. The program inculcates hatred and a belief in the efficacy of violence to solve the problems in the Middle East. It identifies Israel with militarism. It feeds the idea that a Jew born in Brooklyn has a birthright to settle in Israel that is denied to an American of Palestinian descent.
Jerusalem, aside from being one of the most beautiful cities in the world, is one of the most literate, creative and intellectual. Do these young men and women really know the best of Israel by spending eight weeks playing soldier and glorifying the military? Is the cause of Israel advanced by mirroring the twisted militarism of Islamic fundamentalists?
Terrorists arise in all cultures, all nations and all religions. We have produced more than our share. Ask the people of Vietnam or Iraq. The danger of a military program such as these is that it solidifies a mind-set of us and them. It romanticizes violence. It widens the divide that leads to conflict. It makes dialogue impossible. There are great Israeli institutions, from the newspaper Haaretz to the courageous Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem to Peace Now. A summer working for them, rather than wearing an army uniform, unleashing bursts of automatic fire in the desert and singing Israeli patriotic songs, might actually help.
Chris Hedges, who graduated from Harvard Divinity School and was for nearly two decades a foreign correspondent for The New York Times, is the author of "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America."
© 2007 Truthdig, L.L.C.
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93 Comments so far
Show AllLook: the problem for Israel is that it's pursuing a colonial project in a post-colonial age. The same goes for the US in Iraq.
When Israel and the US catch up with the rest of us, then maybe we'll get some peace -- if they don't incinerate us in the meantime.
This article is so stupid, such blatent anti-Israel propaganda, that I'm surprised anyone at all is taken in by it. At least one person, Salvation, gets it.
Sadly, Hitler was not only the worst thing to happen to European Jews, but it was also the worst thing to happen to the Palestinian Arabs. They had nothing to do with the holocaust, but they are being made to pay for it.
"This article is so stupid, such blatent anti-Israel propaganda, that I'm surprised anyone at all is taken in by it. At least one person, Salvation, gets it."
What about the sign that one settler had that i saw, written "one arab, one bullet" Am i doing anti-semite propaganda just by pointing this out? There is extremism on both sides, give it up, its a failed enterprise. The victims of Hitler must be turning in their graves if they can see what some of their descendants/kinpeople are doing in their name.
Israelis must some day face up to the dehumanizing treatment they give to palestinians, and hopefully palestinians will also see beyond their suffering and understand that its not by killing more of "their" innocent people that its gonna solve anything.
Well, actually some Israelis and Palestinians already understand that and act accordingly, so i mean, more of them must come to realize this.
So, who is dehumanizing the Palestinians now in Gaza?
Why are they now shelling and rocketing Israel from Gaza instead of working to return to a normal autonomous life with their own government?
What about the bombs written on by Israeli settler children that were dropped on Lebanon? Those were seen all over the world. There are far more Arabs being killed than Jews in the Middle East last time I checked...we're all very tired of this especially when Israel claims to be the victim if you look at the statistics rationally they are not especially when they have over 200 nuclear warheads pointed at their neighbors. I no longer buy the David vs Goliath arguement as Israel is the 800 pound Gorilla in the neighborhood or the 800 pound elephant in the room in the US.
Was life any different in the Hitler Youth?
Any nation or people that worships force (lives by the sword) will perish by it (fall upon it). Karma carries no prejudice, is no respecter of persons' religions, nationalities, or genders. The worship of force first guarantees its boomerang. THAT understanding would be so cost-effective in our world gone mad with violence, each thinking he is pursuing the will of the Deity as a rationalization for his own hate and lack of tolerance of others who march to different drummers. IT is THIS belief system, which I term "homage to Mars" that must end! Or we all go down for the count along with its myriad followers from so many misled sects.
How about 5 million Jews surrounded by a sea of over 300 million Arabs, which in my opinion the great majority of of whom do not want them there and will do anything, as demonstrated to kill them or remove them.
Is there a solution, certainly, but will it happen I very much doubt it
So even israel has its own terrorist camps. Hail the fourth reich. but this will written off by zionist terrorist sympathizers as place where children are thought peace and harmony of course.
How dare you criticize a camp the builds togetherness and allows its participants to enjoy the healthy outdoors. Why I'm surprised you did not compare it military 'Boot Camps' where we also teach, in sense, just how valid the lives of those 'others' are.
tsk,tsk
Sounds tougher than Jesus Camp.
Do these kids get to practice their penmanship by signing bombs and missiles, or is that only for smaller Israeli children?
Zionists are not Jews. Zionists are people who have traded in their Jewishness for the neo-platonism and manicheanism of mainstream Western culture. The Zionist world -- like the American world -- is divided into good and evil. Jew good, Arab evil.
Zionist Israel seems determined to repeat history as written in the Bible. Zionists are treading precisely where the Israelites have trod. What an entirely unnecessary tragedy.
Chris Hedges writes:
1. "If you are a young Muslim American and head off to the Middle East for a spell in a fundamentalist "madrassa," or religious school..." (etc)
then:
2. "But if you are an American Jew and you join hundreds of teenagers from Europe and Mexico for an eight-week training course run by the Israel Defence Forces, you can post your picture wearing an Israeli army uniform and holding an automatic weapon..." (etc)
Here we see two sides of the same coin.
And it is a 'bad penny', it's the coinage of Old Age barbarism, in an era when so many of us thses days are trying to guide humanity forwards, - to evolve *away* from the insanity of war and military obsessions, into an era of worldwide peaceful trust and coexistence.
Expending energy and focussing on warfare results in... (guess what!) - more warfare!
Whilst expending our energy in bringing about a more peaceful, harmonious world, -results in fewer wars, and a safer, healthier world for *ALL*.
This would seem self-evident to the wiser ones among our race, but somehow those folk still stuck in the mess, gore, belligerence and dust of yesteryear seem to repeatedly overlook the obvious.
What a lot of catching up they need do...
_______________
[~ and great post sister Siouxrose!]
The insane partnership between Zionists and fundamentalist Christians, that has been nurtured by the Likud party, may yet be successful in bringing about Armageddon.
American Jews, like Joe Lieberman, who place the best interests of Israel ahead of the best interests of the United States should be exiled to Gaza.
Such an indulgence considering it is primarily poor American children who do the fighting and dying-- Americans who ultimately foot the bill in blood and treasure.
That little fact could have dire future consequences.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
and that is in 2002.
"So, who is dehumanizing the Palestinians now in Gaza?
Why are they now shelling and rocketing Israel from Gaza instead of working to return to a normal autonomous life with their own government?"
greengal October 1st, 2007 4:37 pm
Greengal, Israel is dehumanizing the Palestinians now in Gaza, just like the good old times. Israel has cut off food and water supplies, electricity, medical care, tax revenues and jobs in Gaza. Israel terrorizes Gazans with missiles aimed at crowded markets and apartment houses, so-called "targeted assassinations." In short, Israel has turned Gaza into a huge, lethal, ghetto. In addition, Israel is slowly cleansing the West Bank, which the Israelis want to steal, of its Arab population. Palestinians can allow themselves to be ethnically cleansed or try to fight back. Some choose the latter.
Chris Hedges is among the finest reporters and writers working today. He consistently "gets it right" when too many others either dare not even broach the issue or quite simply "don't get it" period.
Among the most fanatical of Israeli extremists are American Jews who travel to Israel either before or, as Chris described, after their terrorist crimes against Americans on American soil.
http://tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=61
Only those blinded by ignorance, bias, or ideology would fail to see the dangers posed by the kind of camps Chris writes about in the article above.
"Zionists are not Jews. Zionists are people who have traded in their Jewishness for the neo-platonism and manicheanism of mainstream Western culture. The Zionist world — like the American world — is divided into good and evil. Jew good, Arab evil."
The best encapsulation of the actual state of Israel that I've read. The "jewishness" of the Israeli state bears as much relation to Jewish identity over 1900 years as the people living in Indiana (or any city or state bearing a Native american-inspried name) do to the indigenous culture they replaced.
"How about 5 million Jews surrounded by a sea of over 300 million Arabs"
The Israelis chose to live there; they can move if they really want to. But they don't want to. They get oodles of cash for not moving back to their home countries.
This just in: due to the continued misuse of our military forces and the resulting recruitment shortfalls, Cheneybush have announced they are Federalizing the Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Bobcats, Tiger Cubs, Wolf Cubs, Bear Cubs and Webelos Scouts.
All members are to report to Camp Happy Feet, formerly known as the School for the Americas, by 0600 Christmas Day. Those with their archery, rifle and shooting, and shotgun Merit Badges will be considered officer candidates.
Look at the bright side--you get to strut around in a uniform and be a big stud by kicking Palestinian butt.
"Those war planes and iron tanks?
Generals and men of higher ranks
say they're all instruments of peace,
all I can see is the mark of the beast.
They can't fool me, oh no way.
They're preparin' for a doomsday.
Brimstone and fire throughout the land.
Better prepare for this here Armageddeon.
I'm tellin' you brothers, it's gonna' be dread, dread.
I'm tellin' you sisters, it's gonna' be dreader than dread,
dreader than dread, I said."
(As sung by Leroy Sibbles in the early 80s. Not sure who wrote/composed it, though it might be him as well.)
peace (sigh)
"There are far more Arabs being killed than Jews in the Middle East last time I checked."
That's right, and it's US soldiers and mercernaries killing them, and they are killing each other - Sunnis vs. Shiites.
Ostrogoth: The Palestianians wanted territorial sovereignty. Israel has given it to them in Gaza. The first thing they did was destroy the apartments and dwellings, instead of relocating Palestinian families to live in them. Why is it Israel's obligation to give them all these services? Where are their arab "brothers and sisters"? Largely looking the other way -- "who me?" And how is the aid that is going to them being spent? On shells and rockets,instead of on food, water and clothing.
Are you some kind of trust fund kid or something, that you feel these people have absolutely no responsibility to lift a finger to help themselves?
For the critics - easy for you to carp about "terrorist training," etc. But you don't have to fight for your right to exist - this is a conflict between Arabs and Jews that's been going on for 60+ years. Ostrogoth(above): "Why are they now shelling and rocketing Israel from Gaza instead of working to return to a normal autonomous life with their own government?"
Israel has a right and a duty to defend its sovereignty. These young men are patriots - NOT toy soldiers.
cmichaelg49:
The madrasas and al-quaeda training camps function under the radar, because they train people to be suicide bombers and to build bomb to murder civilians to make a political point, and not in defense of their home or family.
Comparing these stupid 6 week, publicly advertised, "toy soldier," camps to the terrorist training camps is frankly idiotic.
If Hedges was such a fine journalist, why did he pick on one program that frankly strikes me as being as silly as the innocuous paintball groups who play war games, to compare to a terrorist program that is serious as hell, without also reviewing all of the peaceful, cultural and educational programs Israel also runs to try to build interest and support from people in other countries? And then look to see whether the groups that run the terrorist training camps also run a much much larger and comprehensive set of peaceful educational and cultural programs like Israel does. Hedges clearly has an axe to grind here.
I've labored in the Palestine solidarity movement in the past. But as an American, I find it hard to condemn Israel's occupation and terrorism against the Palestinians when my own country's troops are occupying and terrorizing the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, using the same or often cruder and more brutal methods, on a far larger scale, and with far less justification.
No, I don't think criticism of Israel is antismitism, and I do think the US should stop paying for financially, covering for politically, and enabling militarily Israel's crimes. But I'm not sure that demonizing Israel should be at the top of the peace movement's agenda at the moment. Not when we have left so much unsaid about our own nation's ongoing criminality.
TROOPS ARE TERRORISTS
VICTORY TO THE PEOPLES OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN!
No Greengal I'm talking about the deaths of the Lebanese last summer in Isreal's bombing campaign: http://hrw.org/reports/2007/lebanon0907/
and of Palestinians in the occupied territories:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
More Arabs died then Jews statistically. Finally Iraq we all know was a war both for oil and the Israeli lobby so Israel has even more blood on its hands there also. Sick how you defend the indefensible with your AIPAC talking points.
Dichterfreund: "The Israelis chose to live there; they can move if they really want to. But they don't want to. They get oodles of cash for not moving back to their home countries."
LOL - Not a student of 20th century history, are you? No one would take the Jewish refugees during WWII, even knowing about the concentration camps. The good old USA sent many back to their deaths. After WWII ended and the concentration camps were liberated, some were accepted as immigrants in the various countries, but the creation of Israel was a way to limit their collective obligations to take them in, by establishing a homeland in a location that the refugees would accept. The Jewish refugees who moved to Israel didn't have homes to go back to. Everything they had had been stolen from them, their communities had been decimated. They had nothing to go back to.
The USA, and all countries, still have immigration quotas, so Israelis cannot just move to another country any time they feel like it, any more than you can just pick up and move anywhere in the world that you want to.
That last sentence is completely off the wall. Israel is, and always has been, in a financial strait jacket, because it is constantly rebuilding what the suicide bombers, shells and rockets destroy. It does not have "oodles of money." That reminds me of the old ugly stereotypes of the "rich Jews," a way of dehumanizing an entire people so you feel good about your hate.
A news article published by the LA Times, just before but probably after 9/11, reported that two prominent Jewish males were caught red handed with a huge amount of explosives by the FB as they were trying to blow up a mosque in Culver City, California. I was then interested to know what would happen to them, but I never heard anything about it. It went into a black hole, a complete news blackout.
Does anyone know what happened to them?
dcbeltway: You should have been specific then. You used the present tense, not the past tense: "There are far more Arabs being killed than Jews in the Middle East last time I checked." That Lebanon operation was idiotic. I was mad as hell at that also. Unlike the US in Iraq, at least Israel pulled back quickly by comparison.
Israel lives under a constant state of seige. Why don't you find some numbers on the death toll that include all the Israelis who died from rockets and shelling coming from Lebanon for the previous several years before Israel made that stupid, but provoked, move?
Do not lump all Jews into this category of extremists and militarists.
Jews have been on the frontlines of many progressive movements including civil rights for black folks.
There are Israeili extremists in power just like there are American extremists in power and it's too bad these two groups are running an insane foreign policy--headlong into a disasterous war with Iran.
The likud party no more represents the majority of jews, Israeli or otherwise, than the Neocons represent the majority of Americans.
I believe we can best support Israel by promoting peace with the Palestinians and Arab countries in the region and by understand Israel's need for security. Some say the Arabs don't want peace. I disagree, but if there's no common ground then separate and be prepared to compromise enough so all groups are satisfied enough to discontinue war. I'm naive I know, but how much more stupid is a war that even after 50 years still can't be resolved. That's stupid.
That said, these extremists--American, Israeili, and Arab may be the end of all of us if we don't start living by sane foreign policy.
"The Jewish refugees who moved to Israel didn't have homes to go back to. Everything they had had been stolen from them, their communities had been decimated. They had nothing to go back to."
Sigh. Im fighting to hold back my f*&king tears. Shouldnt the people who caused all this suffering be held responsible for their actions ? Germany and the rest of the Israel supporting 'West' should in fact accomodate ALL the jewish people who suffered and who dont have homes to go back to. So why does israel feel compelled to slaughter the Palestinians ? They had nothing to do with jewish suffering.
This entire 'script' about jewish victimhood morphing into oppression against the Palestinians makes me sick.
Israel is also supporting the military regime in Burma with weapons:
http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/reg.burma/archives/200008/msg00005.html
Greengal Israel pulled back??? What after they clusterbombed the hell out of Lebanon so its unlivable and children blow off thier hands thinking the clusterbombs are toys, farmers cannot till their fields and feed people, not to mention that the Israeli missles destroyed highways, the Beirut international airport, schools, hosptials and other civilian infrustructure? Then the Israelis ask us Americans to give the Lebanese aid and rebuild after they bought our bombs to destroy Lebanon? Don't give me the usual bullshit argument that Israel used restraint. I don't buy into that nonsense. The bad things the US does in the Middle East do not excuse the equally horrific things the Israelis do and outrageously enough they do it in partnership most of the time from Iraq to Palestine. I condemn both governments.
Is Israel still fighting in Lebanon?
Hubcap_halo-- I'm with you all the way.
You are right greengal. We should remember that we all have actually had the wool pulled over our eyes. One "nation" tries to wipe out a group of people who have been connected throughout "Europe" for decades, following a madman in his relentless campaign to return "economic power" to the "Christians" of the land, (during the middle ages, the "Jews" were the only people taking direct interest on loans (there were of course as there always is, loopholes; the church took rent on land for instance), it used to be considered a sin to take money for the time it was borrowed, time belonging only to "God") another "nation" decides to drop 2 nuclear weapons on a civilian population, and a third "nation" built up a repressive regime killing millions of their own people stifling freedoms and growth in the name of coercive, nonexistent equality. These powers, these meddlesome murderers somehow decided it would be best solved by appropriating land from a weak, unwitting and uninvolved people with excuses given from crusades, history and myths. I will never understand why "Germany" was not given to the "Jews" instead of Palestine (actually, that is loaded, I know why), it would have been the proper solution nevertheless. I will never understand how anyone could conceive dropping nuclear weapons on civilian populations and the horror, two at the same time. And I will never understand why some people think that in order to gain power, they must take it from others. How many millennia will need to go by before we realize that true power lies in sacrifice of self. And yes, I still think the "Jews" of "Europe" should have allowed "God" to keep his "time", inadvertently keeping "Europe" in the Dark Ages forever. Gutenberg did them a great disservice as well, knowledge kept and hidden in the churches, only available to the true seekers of it, protected the rest of the world from the myriad of evils that were about to leap from the hearts and minds of "Europe" in the form of weapons.
In the end I must draw the conclusion, that all the people around me on this planet are insane, including those that came before me. With this reasoning, I too gladly join the ranks of the insane and laugh at the complete and utter futility of man in the flesh, wishing that one day at exactly the same time, we might All see the greatness of Robert Nash's equilibrium and give up our All for each other, that we might truly benefit ourselves.
The reason I put things in quotations is because I don't believe in their intrinsic definitions, I do believe the world is full of assholes and some nicer people, who every now and then, also behave like assholes, I would like to think that I don't fit into any of the categories we humans are always creating in order to take distance from other people, classifying them instead into ideas, beliefs, moral codes, symbols, people and sexual preferences. We were not made to be classified. Give to "Israel" "Germany" and give to the "Palestinians" "Israel", or just stop classifying people and realize the truth, I repeat, the man next to you is all you have, you in and of yourself are nothing, give him all your power and everything else you have and let him do the same to his neighbor, and watch the glory unfold.
Wars do not end when the last bomb is dropped. Wars destroy lives, break people figuratively and literally along with nthe landscape and infrastructure of nations and survivors are forced to rebuild what was destroyed. Civilians carry the impact of war their whole lives through trauma. Don't be so naive!!!!! Look at the Israeli Jews themselves who survived the Shoah/Holocaust they are still living with those scars which is why some of them have turned into the oppressers they once condemned!
Commmondreams readers are well aware that the Likud and Neocons do not represent the Israelis or us. However, we all aren't in charge at the moment and this is the problem so spare us the lecture.
Your problem, dcbeltway, is that you fly off the handle into your convenient stereotypes before you finish reading. But you are not alone in this -- you have plenty of company here. I did not condone the incursion into Lebanon, despite the provocation. My comparison was to this country's completely unprovoked attack and Iraq and the fact that we are still there. You do recognize that Israel is not in Lebanon any more, don't you? You do recognize that few, if any, things are black and white, don't you?
Greengal: Israel lives under a constant state of seige.
Then they can go back to Europe. Why do Arabs have to pay the price for the sins of Europe?
You know dcbeltway, that is the second time I have heard that one today. Do you think that the US should send its black population back to Africa, too? While you are at it, why not just suggest that everyone in this country who is not a native american be sent back to where their ancestors came from?
Daaaaaaaaamn...that article was an eye opener!!! and so true.
My Opinion: Biggest mistake of the modern world...the British installing a group of people...nothing against the Jews...into a location where the group wouldn't get along. That was truly crazy. I can imagine what would happen if we stuck a group of Mexicans (by force) smack dab in the middle of Texas...I don't believe that would go over too well either and we'd probably see violent confrontation Biggest mistake of the modern world...and now we all pay for it. I guess the British didn't like the Arabs...ya think?
Well, the US has always supported 'our terrorists'. After all, if we wanted to start bombing all terrorist camps, we'd have to start with Miami.
I applaud those that transcend polarized thinking to SEE and ARTICULATE the bigger picture. Kudos today to: Uncommon Dreams, HUB CAP, ZOYA (must be that magic realtor "thing," as in "Location! Location! Location!), and Mark Abram. NOTHING is helped by blame-games, we need to embrace new strategies for forming bridges so that mankind can evolve beyond this me-right/you-wrong cave man club each other to death with the singular advance on that strategic objective: an evolution of weapons!
MarcAL October 1st, 2007 9:14 pm
Daaaaaaaaamn…that article was an eye opener!!! and so true.
My Opinion: Biggest mistake of the modern world…the British installing a group of people…nothing against the Jews…into a location where the group wouldn't get along. That was truly crazy.
------------
Yeah, wasn't it though! Crazy like a fox ;) Or in French "ruse comme un renard" tricky as a fox ;)
" I guess the British didn't like the Arabs…ya think?"
Yeah, and methinks that they didn't / don't like Jews much either. They knew precisely what they were doing.
Why do Arabs have to pay for the sins of Europe?? What did the Palestinian do to deserve Apartheid Greengal?? You haven't answered my question. As for the Jews who have chosen to live in Europe, America and other societies outside Israel I applaud that and welcome them and thank them for not endorsing Israel's racism and apartheid by living in settlements in the West Bank.
greengal writes:
"And how is the aid that is going to them [Palestinians] being spent? On shells and rockets, instead of on food, water and clothing."
Utter nonsense. One might as well ask how Israel uses the $3Bn in aid it gets annually from the US. Answer: weapons. As for Gaza, its human needs (unlike wealthy Israel) are staggering, and only a tiny fraction of its income in all forms is going to a tiny amount of weaponry.
"you don't have to fight for your right to exist - this is a conflict between Arabs and Jews that's been going on for 60+ years."
Longer than that, actually. But for the last 60 years Israel has been winning hands down. Israel's existence has not been seriously threatened militarily since 1973 at least (and even then its nuclear weapons served to ensure superpower intervention to prevent their use, or Israel's destruction). The Palestinians have been suing for peace since the mid-1970s. Israeli belligerence, paranoia, racism and expansionism have been the major obstacles to a two-state solution.
"Israel is, and always has been, in a financial strait jacket, because it is constantly rebuilding what the suicide bombers, shells and rockets destroy. It does not have "oodles of money.""
Israel has over $120Bn annual GDP, plus $3Bn direct subsidies from Uncle Sam. The direct economic losses from suicide bombers and all attacks on Israel are completely insignificant, although the effects on tourism and investment are probably felt. Compare this with the utter devastation wrought on the West Bank, Gaza, and Lebanon by Israel's US-provided "conventional" weapons of mass destruction and Israel's economic strangulation of Palestinian agriculture, industry and civil life.
"Israel lives under a constant state of seige. Why don't you find some numbers on the death toll that include all the Israelis who died from rockets and shelling coming from Lebanon for the previous several years"
The numbers are tiny, and in no way comparable to the tens of thousands killed by Israel's wars in Lebanon since 1981. Similarly, in the conflict with Palestinians, during the worst days of suicide bombings during the second intifada, the kill ratio came close to 3 Palestinians killed for every Israeli, but overall the historical ratio is much higher. Israeli terrorism against Palestinians is many times the reverse, and yes, I am talking about deliberate killing of noncombatants. I am talking about murdered children.
And after all this is said and done, what my country did in Vietnam, Panama, Iraq and Somalia, and is doing today in Iraq and Afghanistan is many times worse.
"why not just suggest that everyone in this country who is not a native american be sent back to where their ancestors came from?"
Thats a brilliant idea actually. I suggested it before and there werent many takers ... ah well !
Israel is not in Lebanon anymore cause they got their ass kicked by a rag-tag band of guerillas. Ofcourse this is temporary. They've already provoked Syria as a test run for their bombing campaign against Iran. Anybody who believes israel is a peaceful state needs their head examined. Israel is the most violent, oppressive, racist state in the middle-east.
The Arabs and Palestinians are truly cursed. They have to put up with their own dictators who oppress them and then along comes this zionist 'state' which finishes the job by slaughtering and murdering them.
As for that moron who thinks most israelis are peaceful:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/01/4239/
As for numbers and statistics on how many Palestinians are killed for every israeli this is one amongst many sites that keep these stats.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html (dcbeltways link)
Clearly, the zionist pigs that periodically rear their ugly head here need to go back to their crypt.
Siouxrose more of us would be doing more constructive work and "playing nice" if we didn't have to constantly refute the onslaught of Zionist propoganda by people like Greengal. Just getting the other side of the story out is a constant battle.