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America Used To Be Really Goddamn Awesome
I've been captivated by Ken Burns' The War this week and it struck me how awesome America used to be.
The prevailing attitude of the ladies and gentlemen featured in Burns' film, and by proxy all Americans of that era, was that if we had to fight a war, we had better do it right. Clearly and with little dissent, we had to fight that war, and without fail, Americans rallied together to do it really damn well.
People from every corner of the nation selflessly pooled their resources for the great cause of World War II, and I'm not sure about this one, but I don't think President Roosevelt ever once asked the country to sacrifice by going to the mall. And I'm pretty sure he didn't outsource the construction of tanks, Flying Fortresses, Hellcats and Thunderbolts to Mexico and China. That's a hell of a thing by today's standards, isn't it?
We've fallen so far from what we used to be, even as recently as thirty years ago when the comparatively liberal president Richard Nixon opened a dialogue with Red China, whilst Mao supplied arms to North Vietnam. One day long ago, it was okay to wish for an end to a war, without being accused of hating the soldiers who were fighting it. It was once a given that socialized public education, police, fire departments, roads, parks, national defense and the constitutionally mandated General Welfare & Domestic Tranquility were simply a part of the American way of life and would always be there.
And when our nation had to go to war, we would be there for her.
Conversely, when we crumble to the pressure of our reactionary and authoritarian elements, we get Japanese internment camps, the rise of the military industrial complex, and men turned away from service due to the color of their skin. Some of our greatest failures have been conceived when our irrationality, fear and lust for power overrule our traditional American ideals -- even during our finest hours as a nation.
And now, 50 years later, in our lives and times, we get President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney.
The Bush Years have been a monumental, cataclysmic failure on most fronts due to its inattention to what has, historically, made American great. The president and his thinning ranks of fawn-eyed Hannities don't understand this yet. They don't understand it mostly because they're too ignorant -- blinded by sloganeering -- to the very basic reality that Bush Republican style government, in practice, is about as successful and practical as a paper condom. It always has been.
Nowhere is this more apparent than when they compare the Bush Wars to World War II. It's a desperate notion, one that seeks to conflate our current president with greatness he doesn't deserve and an historical legacy he will never achieve. It's also meant to inflate our current "enemies" to Hitler status, and thus proving the case for war.
The comparison is pure horseshit. (Say nothing of the fact that it elevates Bin Laden or the late Saddam or the present Ahmadinejad to a level of villainy they also don't deserve. It's like saying a doofus villain like Solomon Grundy is the next Lex Luthor. I'm sure they appreciate being granted superpowers enough to take over the world, though.)
If it's so fucking important to stay in Iraq, and if it's so fucking important to invade Iran -- and if it's so fucking important to wiretap your phones and read your mail, and to shit all over your constitutional rights and the Geneva Conventions -- and all of it is part of a larger World War II style conflict, then why aren't the Bushies taking their metaphors seriously by demanding the sacrifices of World War II?
Did President Roosevelt cut taxes or ask veterans to pay higher deductibles? Did President Roosevelt outsource the army by hiring no-bid corporate mercenaries?
From the bombing of Pearl Harbor to the surrender of Japan, automobile manufacturers stopped making cars in lieu of manufacturing hardware for the war effort. Can you imagine, among all of the scrap metal drives -- the rationing of everything from gasoline to frying pan fat -- if Roosevelt had allowed SUV drivers to receive tax breaks in which sheer vehicular tonnage was rewarded at the peril of even one American G.I.?
If the quintessential symbol of the American character in World War II was Rosie The Riveter, the poster for the Bush Wars has to be that of an SUV driver receiving a tax break while sucking down enough Saudi oil to drive to a mall where he's expected to buy lead-tainted crapola manufactured overseas -- a yellow ribbon hypocrite magnet dangling just above his exhaust pipe and several inches from a fading W04 sticker. The caption: "The Bush Patriot Says: 'I'm On It, Mr. President!'"
The Bushies can't possibly take their own World War II metaphor seriously because they don't truly believe in the comparison.
They know, as you and I do, that these wars have little to do with stopping a new Hitler. If we peel back the layers -- if you look at what truly drives little childish men like Hannity and Cheney and Kristol, you'll find that it has little to do with liberating nations from an occupying Nazi force and ending a brutal holocaust. Beneath the pasty white surface of a typical Bush Republican you'll find greed, fear, ignorance, anger and a basic lack of understanding of America's place on the world stage. They're traits that drive nations into unnecessary wars. They're also traits that often breed cowardice.
To wit... Those of you demanding a war in Iran, I have one question for you. And no, I'm not going to employ the tired military service argument, but I must ask you this: what is the very minimum you're doing right now to prepare for your war? Are you refusing to support further tax cuts or pumping less "Islamofascist" oil into your SUV tank?
You're probably not doing anything because all you're expected to do is to say that you support the troops (what does that mean in practice?). And as long as you don't oppose the president as he dismantles the Constitution in favor of a corporate police state, then you've contributed to your president's war effort. That's the Bush Republican way. Oh, and to shop. You have go to Disneyland and buy shit you don't need at the mall (what the fuck is a Webkinz?).
How will the Ken Burns of the future portray the Bush Wars? I imagine that a large part of a future documentary about these times will detail what Rick Perlstein sublimely referred to this week as the destruction of America's character.
Whoever the future Ken Burns might be (hopefully, it'll be Ken Burns), he or she will have to dig deep into the destruction of our national character and detail the stories of torture and secret detention facilities; outsourced corporate thugs murdering foreign civilians; government scare tactics without substance -- it'll be a documentary in part about your non-military friends and family who supported this president's war but who sacrificed nothing in its execution.
So here we are in late 2007. The president believes that history will vindicate his efforts to destroy the American character and to bring about the ascendancy of neo-conservatism. After all, he fancies himself the new McKinley -- or is it George Washington? Is he Lincoln this week or Truman? Is he still fighting the Vietnam War or is it World War II? Korea or the Civil War? Goddamn him and his marble-mouthed horseshit. That's exactly why it has to be up to you and me to write the history -- the truth -- now. It won't be a proud endeavor because there has been little to be proud of, but we have to make sure that future Americans know exactly what happened in the Bush Years and in the Bush Wars.
The pendulum keeps swinging further to the right and seldom in our generation has it swung all the way back. When a president can look you in the eye and say he's going to veto healthcare for children, and his people are fine with that; and when the same sales pitch for Iraq is being employed for Iran -- and it's working, what else can you say about that fucking pendulum?
Bob Cesca is a writer, director and producer, and the founder of Camp Chaos, an animation studio based near Philadelphia.
© 2007 Huffington Post
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304 Comments so far
Show AllKEM PATRICK -- calling -- KEM PATRICK! I agree with you. I would have been proud to be an American then, had I been around then.
That doesn't mean that I would have supported Roosevelt in all that he did. He was a dictator. I still would have supported his decision to go into the war, though. What choice did we have at that point, and lucky for you Euro-centric bastards that we did.
For all America bashers, previous and current, and especially those that praise the EU while smearing America all over the road, fuck you. If you fuck with my country, I'll defend it. That goes for any country.
And no, I do not support the American invasion and occupation of Iraq.
KEM PATRICK
"Japan was a closed nation at that time and refused to trade with almost everyone"
"he refused to leave the Japanese port unless he was heard, and he did threaten to bombard the city"
Do I really need to respond to those statements? What part of "invasion" does not apply? Maybe you should get a refresher on "gunboat diplomacy".
Worthy sacrifice is always glorious, and something is worthy if it is, on balance, the most noble practical option you've got.
This is notwithstanding foreknowledge of pearl harbour, or US bankers profiting from Hitler, or the superfluity of nuking Japan. Hard truths about gross imperfections do not make it better to withold military assistance to those in the path of an actively expansionist tyrant (with a real prospect of world domination).
Today the expansionist tyrant is Bush. Bushco progpaganda makes people deludedly identify with the noble state of mind of the majority in the US in WW2. The author shatters this delusion on its own terms. That is a good a necessary thing.
It is not undermined by the fact that all wars in our times are unecessary and ultimately due to ignoble actions on both sides stretching decades before and (and for the victors) after the relevant battles.
The alternative punditry around here, in its self-absorbtion, is forgetting its relation to the one thing that matters: the working state of mind of the average US citizen.
(Not that I didn't learn a thing or two for which I'm grateful.)
Oh yes, socialism is evil; nonprofit healthcare, free college education through phd, garunteed housing, funds for people with disabilities, for libraries, for public infrastructure, schools, universities, the protection of national forests...that is all so, so evil! Which explains why Sweden is the evil empire in the world, making war and refusing to take in the refugees fleeing their imperial conquests...oh wait, actually Sweden makes war with no one, has a less violent, more equal society and even took in many times more Iraqi refugees than the U.S. has, when they took no part in the illegal invasion. But yes, socialism is so evil; I'm afraid! We might have more public transportation! Living wages; my god no! No!
GYPTIAN, L OQ, I fugured NONE of you would answer the two questions. You don't have the time, but you had ample time to tell everyone that I was spewing crap and harming others by doing so. I never said we or America was awsome, this country was managed by humans ever since we began and what we did to the Indians and the African slaves was as criminal as what we are now doing to the Iraqis and the Indians and the African Americans.
If you think that about the Marshall plan, then you are totally unaware of the good it accomplished. The Europeans needed assistance and we gave it and it was good and I was proud of that. I was never proud of what we did to the Indians etc. I was never proud of the manner we treated Fidel Castro, etc. I hate big business and the men who actually control our government, I'm not proud of them.
IO Q, speak for yourself. I am an American citizen, no longer proud of it. 'Starfish' Bush ruined any good feelings I had and the hope that we could do better. Better than others may not be good enough for you, but it was and is sure good enough for a hell of of a lot of immigrants, both legal and illegal. When I write we, I mean we as a country, not we as individuals, and most would understand that. The vast majority of Americans are no different than the vast majority of humanity, we are all the same and most by far are decent human beings. Those imagnary lines drawn on maps do not really exist, we are all brothers and sisters, regardles of color or any religious beliefs one may favor.
One thing I find as humerous is, some of you condemn Roosevelt for going to war when he had little other choice. But then you also condemn him for NOT going to war, when Hitler started it in 1939. You can't have it both ways. BTW Io Q, I was a good teacher that is not just my opinion, I heard it often from my superiors and my students. You don't know me, so why not save the sarcasm for someone you can speak to personally. You wish to diagree with my opinions, fine, knock yourself out foreigner, I use that word, as you didn't state where you live.
Since yu didn't live during WW11 sonny or sissy, I seriously doubt that you would know how you would have felt then. That's like saying you would have known how you felt if you were on a crew building the Great Wall of China, but by writing that, you do show how silly you think and what a one sided solipsist you are.
WW11 never happened BillB? Tell it to the guys who went ashore at Omaha Beach, or the Canal or Okie. Tell it to the wives who lost their husbnds or the vets who lost both legs or the victems of fire bombings in Tokyo and hamburg or the ....... never mind. I have never seen this many of the ones who make Progressives appear to be fools, all on the same thread at once.
Actually Ken, it has been very interesting and a swell learning process. I don't believe there were any serious ego harms on this thread. None were swearing at one another, little name calling of any significance. I personally would like to meet everyone here in person, sit back and have a fun discussion ad loft a few drafts.
Io Q. Lellity, if you're not an American citizen what business do you have criticizing it?
You, and all the phony America-bashers should look at home and find fault with your own countries. If all nations did that, a shit load of the horror would stop.
-- "imperialism, colonialism, genocide, slavery, racism, sexism, homophobia, religous fundamentalism, capitalism, globalization, corporate crimewaves, and serial-killer wars"
Like Britain, France or Spain weren't a bit imperialistic. Like the Dutch and the French didn't sell slaves to colonial America. Like African kings didn't sell their own people to the Dutch and the French slave traders. Like a gay person isn't executed in Iran today, just for being gay. Like America invented sexism. Like the Middle East isn't a bit fundamentalist. Like Nazi Germany didn't kill millions of people.
Keep blaming it all on capitalism. Beats the hell out of communism.
What part of "you are no more of an american citizen than I am." indicates to you that I am NOT a citizen of the united states? But actually, yes, we are all qualified to criticize imperialist nations, you ignorant trash. If you or kem writes to me again, I won't bother reading it.
The opposite of liberal is not the nice sounding word "conservative", but authoritarian. There are left wing authoritarians like Stalin and Pol Pot and right wing authoritarians like Hitler and Bush. They and every serial killer call themselves "conservative". Jesus was a liberal.
There's a lot of truth on all sides of this discussion. I prefer to view it in the context of previous devotion to king and country regardless of the consequences. From that perspective, all sins committed by your country are forgiven. That is the history and reality of all empire. (read George Orwell's "Shooting an Elephant."
But it is clear to me at least, that this perspective is unsustainable if you want to survive.
It is clear that with the melting of the poles and soaring temperatures, we can no longer focus on a devotion to conquest since, if you really love the USA as I do, you must look ahead and realize that it will be lost if it continues on it's holy war for oil. Better to lose the empire and save the democracy: as the British realized.
Our biggest threat is not a rouge nation developing a WMD.
Our biggest threat is world wide overpopulation.
This Repulicrat party has never addressed this because it conflicts with their skewed consumer/profit model of capitalism (which has nothing to do with Adam Smith's original views on competition and small town mercantilism.) Their model depends on market growth at the expense of all else (including individual liberty.)
I call it corporate communism, because it has taken over the government, and now, gov and big business are one in the same.
We need to shift our focus away from Washington, and target the evils of Wall Street instead.
American CEO's are the real sinister masterminds behind this hijacking of the U.S. government. They are the ones behind the levers controlling this Monster of the land of Oz......
pacplyer
"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!" - The wizard of Oz
I may be wrong on this, but wasn't Sweden taken by Hitler during WW11? Wonder how they felt when we got into the war and D-Day began?
Uhhh, do the Swedes make and sell weapons of war?
Io Q. Lellity, (democratic) socialism is fine for Sweden or Denmark or any country where the citizens want it. It's not working here in America. It has only conspired, along with fascism to destroy any hope we had of ever being free. We have never had complete freedom here, it's true. But we had so much hope and promise. We rang a bell of freedom that resounded all over the world. The bastards wouldn't stop. The tories, the ones that wanted a monarchy here, the greedy landowners, the traitors like Bush and Roosevelt.
In the last century, starting almost from the beginning of it, socialism and fascism has brought this country down to the current level of dictatorship we're in now.
You keep your socialism and enjoy it. It's your right. I and most Americans prefer freedom and self-responsibility. It's our right. We almost had it. And we let it go.
The price for freedom is responsibility.
All changes to the equation as described by this article (and in letters up through Daniel David's--no time to read more tonight) read like accurate analysis to me.
As soon as I began to watch the Burns thing I had a weird feeling. I was a few minutes late, but when I started watching they should still have been talking Keynes and trading blocs. On and on but I never heard anything about these topics.
Speaking of scapegoaters, in ancient times sacrifice victims went under stones. Same today except the stones have turned into debt.
Hi CLAUDIUS, sorry it took so long to respond. Been having a good debate. Thank you so much for reminding me of that book. Some time back I meant to find a copy or wait until it came out in paperback. I'll put it on my list. We are taking off for a few weeks to go fishing, and attempt to forget Iraq, Bush, Cheney, Congress, Pelosi, FEMA prisons Conyers, Blackwater, the coming depression, Iran, global warming and DU ammo, hope we can and I will read that book, ___ thanks again, Kem
pacplyer, thanks for your comment. And, KEM PATRICK thanks for this:
"I may be wrong on this, but wasn't Sweden taken by Hitler during WW11? Wonder how they felt when we got into the war and D-Day began?
Uhhh, do the Swedes make and sell weapons of war?"
I was in Sweden once..Halmstad. I hated it. The people were all snobs in fur coats. Talk about hypocrites. The whole place was so clean, it was sterile. It was like walking around in a hospital room.
I was also in Copenhagen, Denmark. The people were lovely.. friendly and down to earth. And I was in London. It was awesome.
Funny, Sweden was the only one that left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
"you ignorant trash"? That was nice, Io Q. Lellity. or should I say Hellity?
annemarie j:
"There is no such this as a "pacifist nation". There are pacifist individuals in every country, but I've yet to hear of a pacifist nation. If there exists one, please notify me immediately, as we'll be packing and moving there tout de suite!"
maybe costa rica--last i heard they have no army..seems they gave it up some yrs. back..i know several folks that have moved there, will have to ask..
ken
ezeflyer, thanks for your input. But, the opposite of authoritarianism is not liberalism unless it's classical liberalism. Modern liberalism is left-wing nutville.
Thomas Jefferson was the prototypical classical liberal or libertarian in the US.
Jefferson and Patrick Henry were liberals, real liberals.
Jesus was an anarchist.
MOOKIE, first time I ever saw one of your blogs. Sure glad you showed up, I felt as if I was all alone and was surrounded. Did you note that IoQ has decided to quit his nonsense? Funny, he was the one who stated he wasn't a citizen of the U.S. and accused me of not being one also.
SEEDEEVEE, I don't play with words. You had stated Perry invaded Japan and I think of invasion as landing on anothers soil and starting a war. Japan was refusing to trade with us but would trade with some other countries. That is not exactly fair and so we forced the issue. We didn't attack Japan, we never fired a shot, we did not invade them and it worked out fine. I am ignorant on gunboat diplomacy, but Perry was using a battle ship. Perry rattled his saber, was he bluffing? Probably, he said so before he drank himself to death.
No seedeevee, you don't have to do anything you do not wish to do, for the time being, we are a free country, mostly because we have had a decent military. Which is really a shame, wish all people and all nations could do without one.
The Germans and the Japanese did all that KB finds so inspiring in the US and more, but alas they could not win. That is what fate is all about.
As to awesome - Martin Luther King Jr. would never have uttered these words as he did in the 60's were they not true: - a sick society totally infested with racism.
KEM PATRICK, glad to be of assistance.
kengarjagalouski, my cousin Chiki lives in Costa Rica. I'll have to ask her how it is.
KEM PATRICK - All you do is play with words.
If someone comes into my house, armed and uninvited, with previous express directions to stay away, it is a home invasion. Just because they did not shoot me does not make it less an invasion.
You need to get over yourself. This is not a free country. I have to do many things I do not wish. There are many things I wish to do I can not. We have over two million people in jail. I guess "free" is another word you can play with.
That bad taste in your mouth may have been from knowing Sweden is where the vast majority of hard core porn books were published. They made the French sex photo gals seem like Sunday school teachers.
KEM: Perry was the first American to bombard the Japanese port city of Nagasaki. Used the cannons of his 'black ships' to pound the harbour area to rubble. THAT is how he 'opened' Japan to western trade...
And for an interesting viewpont of Japanese isolationism, read 'Giving up the Gun', the author of which I forget unfortunately. It details how the Portugese brought firearm to Japan, their adoption, improvement, and eventual abandonment as barbaric. And THAT is why the Japanese were virtually defencless when Perry began firing.
Whatever you say sedeve. Hey, here is a suggestion. The next time you are in a supermarket, if you aren't in jail or are living someplace where you fear to go to a store due to your lack of freedom, pick up an apple in one hand and an orange in the other, then see if you can notice any difference.
HI Galen. I am sorry, I never heard that about Perry. Would you please tell me where you read that? I'm gong to look it up and see if there is any info like that on the internet.
KEM PATRICK - You must need some sleep. Your words are starting to become nonsensical. Maybe you can dream of some wonderful fantasy land where all the soldiers are fighting for righteousness and all the citizens pray for forgiveness from their gloriously armed saviours.
KEM PATRICK, lol.
seedeevee, we could have had a lot more freedom, that's for sure. We can still take our freedom back. But it's going to take another American Revolution. The third to be exact.
KEM: Will do.
Galen, what you said still doesn't explain Pearl Harbor..or am I missing something?
KEM: Okay... just did some quick research. And I admit I made some errors. Thank you. Perry was anchored off Edo, and threatened to shell the city unless 'peace and trade' treaties were signed. With no practical defences, Japan submitted.
Mookie: If I am following you, Pearl Harbour was the fruit of the actions Perry undertook centuries before. When Japan was forced into the industrial era, the undertook to be the best they could be, as the tenets of Bushido demands. This put them in direct conflict with the other imperial powers in th world. Does that help?
Mookie: If memory serves, Sweden was conquered and a puppet government under one Vikund Quisling was put in place. He was an absolute toady to the Nazis, and did all he could to accomodate them. Dubya would have liked him. And this is where we get the term 'quisling' meaning a toadying, subservient backstabber.
SEEDEEVEE, I'm truly sorry, you and I are not on the same track, the assumptions you make about me are seriously flawed. I am not at all what you are portraying, but whatever makes your heart pump is fine with me. Wish you wou;d start over and read all of my posts before you reply, if you bother to do so. Oh, how about answering those two questions please. I would enjoy reading your answers.
GALEN, I always respect your opinions and commments. I just searched the web and read up on Commodore Perry's two trips to Japan and how he managed to have the agreements signed. According to the three articles I read, he never fired a single shot at any city in Japan. (He was not a nice person). One problem was, Japan jailed our shipwrecked sailors and would not allow them to ever leave Japan. After the agreement, they did release all of the American sailors they were holding. It was against their Shogun creed to allow any foreigner leave Japan. If you have any info I could read about that shelling, could you please let me know? Thanks Galen, Kem.
KEM: As noted above, Perry -threatened- to shell the capital. When you are staring down the barrel of a cannon, you tend to do what the psycho holding the firing lanyard tells you to do.
Yes, Japan held the sailors. No argueing that. But they also did not have the technology at the time for oceanic voyages. No win draw on that account.
HOWEVER, during WWII the Japanese did buil some VERY impressive naval vessels, including the monsterous battleship 'Yamamato', which carried the largest naval cannon in the world, and the immennse aircraft carrying submarines. Both of which were destroyed or seized as part of the peace treaty Japan signed after having two of it's cities vaporised.
Galen, thanks again for your (recent) posts and explanations. I don't think Perry's actions had anything to do with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, though. Japan had sided with the axis and was acting like a lunatic at the time. Remember the Rape of Nanking? I also believe it was rather ignorant of world affairs because of it's isolationism.
Don't everybody jump on me now. Japan is one of my favorite countries now. Very cool place, from what I understand.
mookie September 29th, 2007 11:42 pm
Io Q. Lellity, if you're not an American citizen what business do you have criticizing it?
--------------------
Ah, where to begin? How about:
I see that Io Q. Lellity has already addressed your non-comprehension with: What part of "you are no more of an american citizen than I am." indicates to you that I am NOT a citizen of the united states?
But since you brought it up, what business do Americans have criticizing any other country? Why it's practically an American past time, isn't it! And beyond that, imagine if America restricted itself to only criticizing other nations. Just imagine the possibilities. Other nations/people have dreams too, you know.
Besides... Don't be absurd, we all live in a globalized world where everyone criticizes every thing and everyone else and every other country including their own. What planet do you live on, mookie?
But most of all, since we all live directly or indirectly under the actions or dictates of the American government and/or American corporations, which makes most (if not all) world inhabitants de facto "citizens" of the American Empire, then we each and all have a de facto right AND an obligation to criticize it.
For an eloquent and compelling essay on your very question, research Indian writer Arundhati Roy.
----------------------------------
kengarjagalouski
Thanks for the word on Costa Rica. I'd long thought it might be a great place to live. That is until I'd seen how (over)developed and Americanized it's become. Honestly, what place on earth is unscathed? There's really nowhere to run or hide from the imperialist warmongers, is there.
In any case, my comment was mostly borne of frustration. I won't be escaping/emigrating from here any time soon, not as far as I can see. So like most people, I've got to make the best with what I've got. ;)
Peace.
Also Galen, Thanks for this "Sweden was conquered and a puppet government under one Vikund Quisling was put in place...."
Ha, Ha, Quo Hellity.
I am somewhat confused by some of the terms and assertions being thrown around--like that FDR was a socialist/traitor/dictator and that "corporate communism" is a term for big business and government acting as one. When Mussolini defined "fascism" he actually gave that as his definition--business and government acting in unison--so why have another term when that one does so well--and it is from the guy who invented it?
In my earlier post I used the term "pacifist" when I should have used the term "isolationist." Someone pointed out that Costa Rica is pacifist--they don't have an army. They actually teach their children music and the arts, i.e., subjects that help to make us HUMAN--you know, the very things our schools have no money for because it is all in bombs on its way to Iraq.
As for FDR being a "socialist," I find it difficult to believe that Social Security and a few jobs through the WPA was a great socialist experiment. We had an elite, wealthy population getting richer and millions of people going hungary. Capitalism (read the Federal Reserve) had failed and failed miserably. FDR tossed the public some crumbs to stop an absolute revolt by the masses. Germany was hungry and brought Hitler to power, America was hungry--FDR, thus, looks mild in comparison. From my perspective, it sort of appears as though FDR breathed life into failed capitalism and propped it up for another go round--with a little help from the war, of course.
Jefferson and Patrick Henry I can understand. When you say someone abides by their ideas--I can identify with that. Jefferson was a true liberal, but he definitely believed that government had a responsibility for improving the lot of mankind.
When the founders of this nation wrote the Constitution, they put in the General Welfare Clause as well as other similar items, for example, that Congress should promote science and scientific endeavors. If one studies Jefferson's writings, he did not think that this should be a country where it is every man for himself. Jefferson believed all Americans should be landholders if it were possible, as he said a man who had to work for wages was little better than a slave with no real interest in the affairs of the nation. A wage slave cannot be a freeman--he must always kow-tow to the monied elite--to those who employ him. Patrick Henry made a case for tying the wages of salaried employees to inflation.
Jefferson believed in education, scientific inquiry, and he detested bankers. He said when you turned the country over to the bankers, you could kiss your Republic goodbye. He said that the bankers would insure that your children would be landless and homeless. They sneaked through the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, and we have been manipulated ever since--by the Prescott Bushes of the world.
What we tend to have now is a government which aids those who already have the upper hand--i.e., it is socialism for the rich, with profits being privitized. They have enslaved wage earners, so that if a person has a job, he is lucky if it feeds his family, and the government makes sure it taxes the wages of the working classes through income taxes, real estate taxes, sales taxes, utility taxes and hundreds of others--and, of course, Social Security and Medicare. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay less and less tax and piss and moan about the ones they do pay.
What is "socialism?" Is it taxpayers subsidizing a nuclear power plant while the government exempts those who will reap the monetary profits from any liability in case of a nuclear disaster? Is it taxing the wages of working citizens and then taking those wages and paying the bankers for interest on money which the bankers print--usually for wars? The Constitution says that congress shall be the ones to mint money, through the Treasury--why is a group of private bankers deciding our monetary policies? Why do they raise interest rates when unemployment gets low so that people will lose their jobs? Can't have those uppity workers actually asking for a raise, can you? So, it appears, that a certain number of people must always been unemployed or underemployed in this nation.
So we have a system of preplaned unemployment but then we lecture people on "personal responsibility" and we sing the praises of "capitalism" where if you were worth a damn, you, too, could be Bill Gates.
Dubya spouted that "personal responsibility" line before he stole the last two elections--Dubya who failed at every business enterprise he ever attempted--actually dared to tell someone that they needed to practice "personal responsibility." Uncle Dick Cheney bought out Dubya's shares of his failed company and left the rest of the stockholders to "face their personal responsibilities." Ain't life grand?
I am always very wary of anyone who spouts that "personal responsibility" line--they are usually the ones who are ripping off the Savings & Loans (Neil Bush), or they have some other scam going. Ask someone who talks about "personal responsibility" how they make their money and ten to one, they are sucking off the government teat.
Example: Senator Phil Graham used to say "get out of the wagon and push" Yet Graham was born on a military base, went to public schools, got a grant to public college, drew a salary as a college professor and later drew a fine salary as a Senator--but he said others "need to get out of the wagon and push." Typical.
While this article and the postings related to it are about glorfiying our past involvement in WWII, it is obvious that any talk of war will always bring up the economics, and as my dad used to say, "it all depends on whose ox is being gored." If that were all there were to it, however, some logical discussion might be had. But there is always that wild card--the madman such as Hitler who ordered his generals to destroy as much of Germany as they could before the end of the war. I wonder, too, about the "misplaced nukes" that were discussed in the press this last week. It seems that a lowly soldier recognized that live nukes had been loaded on to planes, where they should not have been. Are we to believe this was an "accident" or "a failure in nuclear protocol?" Or could it be that those bombs had a destination and were inadverently and prematurely intercepted? That would mean, of course, that our leaders are completely mad. But since I believe the evidence points to their involvement on 9-11, nothing would surprise me. The rest of the world needs to be very very scared, not just us.
Galen - gotta give IT up to you man - you have bullets in your guns.
Kem - don't know you and won;t go there
Mookie - don't knw you either
However - one must agree we have a lot of revision as to the accepted 'facts' that are put before us. And I do mean us - for example the myth of 'fossil fuels'. I mean how STOOPID must you be to thing that 60 percent of all dinosaurs died in Saudi Arabia, Ira and Iraq and that unlike ANY other substance on earth - it is MORE limtied (peak oil) because -hey- there ONLY - SO many dinosaurs !!
Ironically - this year registered an INCREASE in oil production - a decrease in demand (mainly from price) for like the first time ever.
I don't care what you belive in - however - something s survive because there is an inherent wisdo to them - people just don;t see it --annnnnnyyywaaaaaaaaaay
The point is the Jesus's answer to Pontius Pilate when he was asked - "What is truth" - -- it was silence.
How do you explain truth??!!!? As you can see - it is not that easy and words do not siffice for time and wisdom.
What Ken Burns doesn't mention about World War II is the deaths of over a million Japanese civilians from Allied bombs, the bombing of German, French and Italian cities even after the Germans had clearly lost the war, the use of torture by the OSS, the murder of German prisoners of war, and all the other war crimes that the Americans committed. The problem with any war, especially a "total war" like WWII, is that morality no longer matters. Or, as Gandhi said, "Morality is contraband in war." Victory is all that matters, at any cost. American commanders acknowledged that if the Allies lost the war they would be tried for war crimes. Because the Allies won the war we are now taught to believe that we were good and the Axis was evil. There is no war crime that Bush has committed in Iraq that Truman did not commit in WWII. At least Bush hasn't dropped atomic bombs on Iraq. America was more racist in the forties, more bloodthirsty and blinded by patriotism. Those are the real reasons that so few questioned the war. We weren't awesome then, just naive.
Mookie: Japan is one of the places I would love to visit. I love it's art, history and spirituality. I forgive them nothing for their actions in China and the Pacific. But the children are not the parents. And that is what matters.
Have you ever heard of the Japanese term 'shindogu'? It means 'useless invention', like a flashlight that only works in direct sunlight, or turn signals for pedestrians. I would not hesitate to extend that definition to western society at large. The vast majority of people today are more concerned with buying the latest SUV, or plasma screen TV. We are a 'shindogu society'.
Iyamwutiam: The 'dead dinos' is a common mistake about the source of petroleum. Petroleum is the result of biological material, probably bacterial or algae in form, coming under immence heat and pressure over geological time. The Middle East, back when it was just another part of Pangea, was the floor of a shallow sea. Luck, and continental drift took care of the rest.
Hi Galen, yes I had previously posted that Perry did threaten to shell the city if they refused to discuss anything with him. He also later said he was bluffing and did not intend to fire on them. So, we'll never know if he would have or not. He was there to rescue jailed American sailors and did not do so until his second trip the following year when the trade agreement was signed.
Japan didn't have to have sea going ships to release shipowrecked sailors, the Dutch were trading with Japan and offered to bring them home and their offer was refused. There were many of our sailors who had been shipwrecked over the years, rotting in Japanese prisons and many died there. They were not human beings to the Japanese and were horribly ms-treated.
Perry actully attempted to have the United States take Formosa, I didn't know he had anything to do with Hawaii. Our government did not follow up on his opinions about Formosa.
I mean how STOOPID must you be to thing that 60 percent of all dinosaurs died in Saudi Arabia, Ira and Iraq...
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I've never heard it put quite like that before and (especially at this late hour here) am LMAO over it. Thank you iyamwutiam .
It's true, isn't it. That all that we know and all that we think we know doesn't amount to diddley squat. Same as it ever was. LOLLLLLLL
And when my laughter subsides, I'll return to silence again....um.....ohm........om.... ;)
KEM PATRICK - "First, what should Roosevelt have done about Japan attacking us, essentially declaring war on the citizens of the United States."
Have you been missing the point on how our historical actions can and were perceived as "essentially declaring war on the citizens of" Asia and the world? If we had been the losers of WW2 it would have been seen this way by the victors. As for "what should Roosevelt have done", do you not see the same tripwires we have set up in the current days that are equivalents to our past?
US troops in Saudi Arabia (present) - the people rebelled.
Western Troops throughout Asia (past and present) - the people rebelled.
US troops in Iraq - the people are rebelling.
Iran or China again? - Let's hope it doesn't go there.
Roosevelt was the wannabe leader of the world colonialist powers. He responded like all leaders of his ilk do - war.
Our national interest would have been to withdraw to our borders. And that does not mean to Manila Bay. It means San Francisco Bay. Our national losses would have been limited to our colonial expeditionary forces. The modern Bush response would say "They would just follow us here". It would not have happened. Japan had no interest in North America, just as Bin Laden or the Religious leaders of Iran do not.
"Secondly, What would you have done better than the Marshall plan, which the Europeans loved, to help re-build Europe after the war ended."
I am sorry that the answer to that question would take many volumes. Vast stretches of Europe were destroyed, and like most beggars, they were not choosers. They were given what they were given. They were smart enough to not blow quite as much of their money on the military as we or the Soviets did. But, they did, and still do, attempt to carry on their colonial past practices, although in a much smaller footprint. They are, to a country, much more socialist than we are. They are demonstrably happier.
Please don't insult me with apples and oranges and I promise to not make false assumptions about you. Fair?
holymoly,
-- "FDR tossed the public some crumbs to stop an absolute revolt by the masses."
Truer words were never spoke. He was mild next to Hitler, but he was still a dictator and a traitor and he was still a left-wing modern liberal. We don't have true socialism in this country, just socialistic laws. We don't have true fascism, either, but we are heading for it with the Bushes and the Clintons, et al.
-- "Jefferson was a true liberal, but he definitely believed that government had a responsibility for improving the lot of mankind."
He most certainly did, but not through welfare programs. He wanted a minimalist government. He wrote that rights are made for individuals, not groups. In his heart he was an anarchist. He said so himself.
-- "If one studies Jefferson's writings, he did not think that this should be a country where it is every man for himself."
No, he didn't, who said he did, not me. We work together and help each other. When America was still an agricultural nation, we did help each other..raise barns, bring in the crops, we did not let each other starve.
-- "Federal Reserve Act" That was a modern liberal - Woodrow Wilson. Not exactly the Prescott Bushes of the world. Like I keep saying the extreme left and right of this country are what have brought it to it's knees. They are buddies, the left and the right -- the leftists and the rightists. (And it was FDR who traitorously sold our country to foreign banks. Another modern liberal.)
Uh, you keep railing on capitalism. Jefferson also believed in free trade. Really free trade. Not NAFTA or CAFTA or any of the other bullshit, not huge corps on govt. welfare..free trade.
With all-out socialism the government takes responsibility for our lives. It's like a parent. We can take care of ourselves. We're not children. We did it before. The pioneers did it.
You were making so much sense until you got to the middle of your post. And I'm not sucking off of the government teat. Nor am I rich. Actually, I'm pretty poor.
A philosophiocal poser if I may:
How do you think we will be remembered, if we are remembered at all?
Some corrections regarding Sweden - I am a Swede...
- Sweden where not occupied during WWII - Quisling existed in Norway which was occupied.
- Sweden also develops and produces advanced weapon systems - some used in the US military (AT 4, Carl Gustav, Javelin etc).
- Sweden is together with the other nordic countries often placed in the rating of the best countries in the world - regarding tech advancement, living standards, quality of life etc.
- What is the problem of being clean?
annemarie j:
left in '72
came back 3 yrs. later
why?
family maybe
but i doubt it
ground mostly i think
ain't nothing like
western american ground
i'm gonna watch this
see what happens
have joy the best i can
kids wanta go
grand kids wanta go
great grand kids wanta go
i say go
ken