Physicists Challenge US Missile Claims
WASHINGTON - A number of top U.S-based physicists have concluded that the Bush administration used inaccurate claims to reassure NATO allies about U.S. missile defense plans in Eastern Europe.
They say the planned Polish-based interceptors and a radar system in the Czech Republic could target and catch Russian missiles, thus threatening Russia's nuclear deterrent.
That view supports Russia's criticism of the system. Russia adamantly opposes the plan, and the dispute has helped escalate U.S.-Russian tensions to the highest point since the Cold War.
The Pentagon agency overseeing the missile program, the Missile Defense Agency, rejects the scientists' claims, saying their analyses are flawed. The United States says the missile system is intended to counter a threat from Iran and could not take out Russian missiles. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has dismissed Russia's concerns as "ludicrous."
But the six scientists, whose backgrounds include elite American universities, research labs and high levels of government, said in interviews that Russia's concerns were justified.
"The claim by the Missile Defense Agency is not correct," said Theodore Postol, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a longtime missile defense critic. "And it is hard to understand how they could get something so basic wrong."
The scientists have not disputed another argument used by U.S. officials that the 10 interceptors planned for Poland would be easily overwhelmed by Russia's vast missile arsenal, leading one supporter of missile defense to conclude that even if the scientists are correct, the U.S. argument holds up.
"I don't think it changes the basic assertion of the administration that this does not pose a threat to Russia," said Baker Spring, a national security analyst at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.
The Missile Defense Agency's claims were made as part of an intensive U.S. diplomatic push early this year. President Bush and senior U.S. officials traveled to Europe to persuade allies that Russian worries about U.S. missile capabilities were unfounded.
The trips followed threats by Russia to retarget its missiles on Europe. Some European officials had expressed skepticism about the plans and recommended further consultations with Russia. Public opinion in some countries, including Poland and the Czech Republic, ran against the U.S. plans.
To reassure the foreign governments and the public, Lt. Gen. Henry "Trey" Obering III, director of the Missile Defense Agency, presented slideshows intended to demonstrate that the Europe-based system was designed only to counteract missiles from Iran. The allies have not challenged the agency's claims.
The physicists told The Associated Press that Obering's presentations were misleading and inconsistent on key points. Postol, a former scientific adviser to the chief of naval operations, and George Lewis, associate director of the Peace Studies Program at Cornell University, have written a study of the MDA claims.
Congressional testimony by Postol in 1992 helped counter U.S. government claims that Patriot missiles were highly successful in shooting down Iraqi scud missiles during the Gulf War.
Pavel Podvig, a researcher at Stanford University's Center for International Security and Cooperation, made his own estimates and confirmed Postol and Lewis' findings. Podvig, a Russian physicist, has been critical of both U.S. and Russian missile defense claims.
Three other physicists also reviewed Postol's findings and said they found them accurate:
-Richard Garwin, a National Science Award winner who is credited with the design of the first hydrogen bomb. Garwin served on the Rumsfeld Commission, an independent panel appointed by Congress in the 1990s to assess the threat to the United States from ballistic missiles.
-Philip Coyle, a former associate director of the National Nuclear Security Administration's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Coyle was assistant secretary of defense in the Clinton administration in charge of testing weapons systems.
-David Wright, a physicist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a nuclear nonproliferation and environmental advocacy group.
The Missile Defense Agency has stood by its claims that the interceptors could not catch Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles.
"The basic fact of the matter is that we would never make a statement like that unless we knew it was true," MDA spokesman Rick Lehner said.
In one of Obering's slide presentations, labeled "Missile Defense for U.S. allies and Friends," an image illustrates the trajectory of a Russian ICBM from a point east of Moscow toward Washington. The slide, which also illustrates the Polish interceptors, says in bold script "Interceptors Cannot Catch Russian Missiles."
"The reason we selected Poland and the Czech Republic for the potential positions of these assets is because it was optimum for the Iranian threat," Obering said after a meeting with German officials in Berlin on March 15. "They are not positioned to where we can even catch the Russian missiles with these interceptors."
The dissenting scientists say that both those claims were incorrect. The interceptors could catch Russian ICBMs, they said, and the interceptors and the radar would be better positioned closer to Iran to counter a threat from its missiles.
Postol concluded that the Pentagon significantly understated the speed that U.S. interceptors could reach when their boosters burned out and overstated how long it would need to track a missile by launching the interceptors.
While all six scientists are skeptical that the U.S. missile defense system can work, they believe that in terms of raw speed, U.S. interceptors in Poland could catch a Russian ICBM launched from western Russia at any part of the continental United States. In Postol's model, the intercept would occur at a point over the North Pole.
The Missile Defense Agency says the Polish-based rockets would reach a burnout speed of 3.9 miles per second, roughly the speed of the Russian missiles depicted in Obering's slides. At that speed, the interceptors could not catch the Russian missiles.
But Postol says the interceptors could top 5.6 miles per second.
Responding to Postol's criticism, the MDA said Postol made assumptions about the interceptors that are based on theory, but in the real world they do not work as well. Not only are the interceptors one-third slower, their rocket motors' thrust is not as efficient when tested, and to get to Russian missiles they would be going through various stresses that exceed what would be considered normal design.
The MDA presented a chart of rocket motor efficiency from tests and noted that Postol's estimates did not reflect what happens in the real world.
But Garwin countered that at least one rocket motor was more efficient than a Postol estimate.
Obering claimed in slides that the European system would expand protection from a U.S.-based system to parts of East Asia. Postol said that could not be true if the European interceptors were moving as slowly as the MDA is claiming.
The scientists have not disputed another argument used by U.S. officials that the 10 interceptors planned for Poland would be easily overwhelmed by Russia's vast missile arsenal, leading one supporter of missile defense to conclude that even if the scientists are correct, the U.S. argument holds up.
"I don't think it changes the basic assertion of the administration that this does not pose a threat to Russia," said Baker Spring, a national security analyst at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.
© 2007 The Associated Press
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22 Comments so far
Show AllRecent studies have proven, that one can burn off 150 calories an hour by banging their head against a wall.
Guns instead of healthcare. Bombs instead of schoolbooks. Missiles instead of affordable housing.
These guys are friggin' geniuses.
*thudding sounds as head is repeatedly banged against a brick wall*
Uh-uh Galen, the 25 years has paid off, the scientists at Princeton figured it out and we already have some operational. Top secret stuff of course, saw it on the Military channel. Ain't it amazing what politicians are willing to spend money on?
OUR MONEY, OUR GREAT GRANDKIDS MONEY.
KEM: They have been working on those damned things for 25 years. And they still need to paint the targets the color of the beam for maximum effectiveness last I heard...
Like the rest of Reagan's 'star wars' wet dreams, the hype has more power than the weapon.
Talk about Deja Vu!
Ya-Vol!
We haz..Za Wonder Weapons to guard Za fatherland,
We haz...Za German Scientists who build Za "H'" bomb,
We haz.. Za S.S. to round up Za Polish people
We only need to enact za Final Solution on za traitors to za Furher!
Wait a minute!
You disagree wiz za headquarters rocket propaganda?
Sargent! CHECK HIS PAPERS! SNELL!
YOUR PAPERS ARE NOT IN ORDER!
Who did you tell zzeez lies about our wonder weapons to?
Za Russian Front maybe?
We have Vaaaayyys..... of getting za information from you......
I do believe Putin could figure this out without having physicsts explain it. Now with Bush, that's a totally different story. Physicists could not explain how to piss up a rope to that idiot.
The military is working on massive lasar beams to shoot down missiles and they are close to perfection. It is similar to hitting a bullet with a speed of light bullet, only much easier by far. They are carried airborne on several different types of large aircraft and the navy will have them on ships. Star Wars is upon us for real.
Why in hell can't we just all stop the crap and spend our money on things that will help humanity, all life and the planet too? God how I despise most politicians, preachers and world leaders. How many good ones who are still alive, can you count on the fingers of one hand?
but what if the nukes were fired from a sub after they take down the satellites with high altitude nukes?
gde: Can you think of a situation where a single bullet could be a world of use?
Galen:
I have no intention of standing behind the trigger. I was just pointing out your gun analogy was irrelevant to the issue of defense against a single ballistic missile, as the interceptor uses homing guidance. In the MAD scenario, your analogy is apt, but there is no choice involved: we are all targets whether we are willing to be or not
Galen,
LOL! Oh, my side is killing me. Stop, please. . .
"This whole thing is an ideological statement by the Bush administration, combined with welfare for the contractors."
We don't live in a fascist nation. Bush is a good god fearing man doing business with good god fearing companies for the safety of the god fearing homeland, freedom and liberty. Bush wants to "send the signal to our enemy that they have aroused a compassionate and decent and mighty nation, and we're going to hunt them down." See, when we are talking about war, we are really talking about peace.
gde: Are you volunteering to be the man behind the trigger? Could get messy...
The bullet hitting a bullet concept was demonstrated in the 1984 Homing Overlay experiment. That part has been well withing the state of the art for decades, which is why exoatmospheric interceptor programs have been in technology development since the late 1960s. The difficult parts are: 1) discrimination of warhead vehicles from decoys, 2) reliability problems associated with system complexity, and 3) overall cost.
This whole thing is an ideological statement by the Bush administration, combined with welfare for the contractors.
the 10 interceptors planned for Poland would be easily overwhelmed by Russia's vast missile arsenal...
wouldn't be much left of Poland though after the massive Russian nucler bombardment...the Poles would have to be fuckin' nuts to place this prime target in their country without the ability to protect them.
The real reason for wanting to place these "anti-missile systems" (which won't work) in the Czech Republic and Poland is to expand Washington's military presence in Eastern Europe. So, in that regard, it definitely is an anti-Russian strategy. Washington wants to have all of (non-Russia) Europe completely occupied, in addition to militarily encircling Russia and China.
The geometry makes sense. An interceptor chasing a missile (even at an angle) has a lot more time to track and "acquire" it than an interceptor trying to hit one head-on. The true speed of the rocket motors would, of course, be a closely guarded secret.
The Iran missile threat has never made sense. This is an anti-Russia weapons system... and useless, except as diplomatic leverage. It's a challenge and a humiliation to Putin's government... I thought he and Bush were "good buddies".
The big aerospace contractors who profit from the missile defense delusion must be lobbying for a new Cold War - Halliburton and Blackwater are squeezing all the juice from Iraq.
Boeing, Lockheed and Raytheon want a turn at the trough too.
Wow! This is pretty serious stuff. Boabab is on the right track. Since 1945, the US has used the threat of the USSR/Russia to rally Western Europe behind its military presence on the continent. As the noted international security scholar, Christopher Layne, noted in "Peace of Illusions," the primary objective of US military presence in Europe is to prevent the emergence of a regional hegemon. This is done through two means. First, prevent the reemergence of rivarly between historic imperial powers. This requires keeping Western Europe dependent on the security provided by US military power. Second, balance against the presumed hegemonic aspirations of the USSR/Russia. This requires maintaining US military readiness on the European continent. Many thought the end of the Cold War meant the end of power politics and military rivalry in Europe. These events could prove such claims incorrect!
Thanks KEM... lords know I wouldn't want to end up on the Bush family tree..
Gheeeze Galen, couldn't you pick something better, how about a sea urchin? A roach? You're better than that.
Don't be fooled by the guy from the think tank. This is not about taking on Russia's existing arsenal with a few interceptors. It's about knocking out the handful of Russian missiles that might survive a massive U.S. first strike. In other words, it's about "winning" an American-initiated nuclear war.
Try this trick: Find a NRA gun nut (they should jump at this chance), have him stand at one end of a highschool gymnasium, you at the other. Both of you have pistols.
Now guess when he's about to shoot, and a fraction of a second before he does, aim and fire, attempting to shoot his BULLET out of the air.
Any takers?
Yay. I can look forward to being reincarnated as a radioactive cockroach.