I believe I am seeing a new dawn rising on this country when I read Thom Hartmann's article.

Let us all strive to be a constructive part of this new adult America!

But the fact is, outside of the "elite" of something like a major university, America today is a vast sea of fear and ignorance and reactionism, not to mention apathy. It is more American today to hammer down the nail that sticks up than it is to allow an unsavory guest to argue any point. That mythical and good America that Mr. Hartmann is talking about has packed up and moved to Europe. The smoke of what's left is still clearing.

Seriously, don't give me this "We're not afraid! We're Americans!" crap. Little things like words or ideas scare the hell out of us.

Thank you Thom. Your commentary is always valued and appreciated.

It's unbelievable to me, the outrage that many have shown at Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's plan to visit specific New York locations. I'm sure that Fox News is at the forefront of creating this hysteria, given their role in perpetrating this administration's corporatist and warfare mentality. It's a shame that alienating and adversarial fronts have been favored over reaching-out and dialogue. That's what happens when diplomacy, and goodwill, takes a back seat to saber-rattling.

Thank you, Columbia University, for standing-up to this reckless and tyrannical madman (and I don't mean the Iranian president).

I think Hartmann is talking about the ideal of being open and adult. I mean, let's face it, we are not a representative democracy. However, that is and always should be our ideal to strive for.

As William Hastie, the first black judge in this country at a federal level, once said: "Democracy is not being, it is becoming. It is easily lost, but never finally won." So too it is about ideas and values. The struggle is never over, and Columbia University helps the struggle with its openness and courage.

Yes, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad takes orders from the Mullahs, he denied that the holocaust existed, and even had a conference for that purpose. American Nazi Party leader David Duke attended. I don't like his government. However, the US has no right to criticize. In 1953 the US ousted Iran's government and re-installed the hated Shah. Most Americans don't know this but most Iranians do. While I condemn Khoumeni for siezing the US embassy in 1979 and holding the personnel as hostage, the US gave support to Saddam Hussein when he invaded Iran.

We talk of denying Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the right to visit ground zero. At the time, Iran had cold relations with al Qaeda, Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush's policy changed all that.

Bush recycled the lies he told about Iraq and changed the letter "q" with the letter "n".

Fox isn't the only network that is helping the Bush administratio demonize the president of Iran. On CBS's 60 Minutes last evening, the reporter who interviewed Mr. Ahmadinejad accused (rather than asked) him of all the Bush et al. allegations. This morning on NBC, a slew of interviewees shouted their disgust and shock that Columbia University would let such an evil person speak at their school. No one contradicted any remark no matter how nonsensical, and all spoke of Iran and its president AS IF every allegation were true. Only one person, Senator Hagel, was quoted saying something truthful. NBC snipped a tiny nugget from whatever else he had to say, but the nugget informed Americans that the fuss was all about George Bush WANTING to make war against Iran. (Thank you, Senator.)

What in the world has happened to common sense? To a bare minimum of skepticism, especially among journalists? What has happened to our collective memory of all the lies used in 2002/2003 to "justify" invading Iraq and being repeated now to "justify" whatever plans they have in mind for Iran.

God help us.

Alas, I am afraid (despite Thom's useful historical reminders) of what's in store for all of us between now and the long awaited end of Little George's White House reign.

Specifically, Fox News celebrated the 2007 anniversary of the 9/11 attack by reporting (with highly placed official sources speaking on background because of the sensitive classified nature of their leak), that a bombing campaign campaign of at least one week's duration is now definitely scheduled for Iran timed for "sometime after the primaries" but definitely before the November 2008 elections.

Ordinarily, of course, the citizenry should receive every Faux exclusive with a healthy dose of skepticism. But this one, coming as it does on the heels of good journalism from the Middle East on the run up to attacking Iran by folks like Seymour Hersh, Juan Cole, Robert Fisk, Chris Floyd, and others, seems ominously credible.

They say in real estate, location is everything. In waging war, it's all in the timing.

So why launch the blitz after the primaries, but before the 2008 balloting? In order to simultaneously solidify and incite the red meat militarist faction of the GOP base, while pounding a huge bloody wedge between the Democratic Party base and its beltway leadership.

Deja vu all over again. Since surgical airstrikes and the Iranian ground incursion will instantly be hailed as a huge strategic success even bigger than the surge, crippling the supply lines from Tehran to al Qaeda and the Iraq insurgency while taking out the mullahs' secret WMD program, the stateside partisan stage will be neatly set.

Quick, before there's a chance for major blowback on the ground to materialize, the major media will turn in unison to the Democratic nominee and ask: Since meaningful progress has been made on the battlefield and victory now is perhaps just over the horizon, as President will you still order an American retreat, thus stabbing our troops in the back and depriving them of the welcome home parades they have so valiantly earned?

Instead of fixing the intelligence fit the policy, this time they'll fix the time frame of a major air war escalation, in order to finesse, fracture, and my all means frighten the Democrats yet once again.

Bill from Saginaw

The authoritarian strain of the radical right wing of the Republican Party does not want there to be any intellectual freedom at our universities.

Presumably, they would support book burnings if they could get away with it. Dissenting groups that show any life or assertiveness are to be booted out of the country, as John McCain said recently of MoveOn.org.

So, that's the authoritarian climate you get in a second term of a radical right wing Administration. Forget that they have not been elected legitimately.

Now, I heard something about this from NPR this morning.

At the end of the report comes the section where you identify key players in the report that the audience might not be familiar with. When it came time to remind listeners about the President of Iran, the suppopsedly biographical tag was "the leader of Iran who says Israel should be destroyed and the Holocaust never happened."

I am quite sure those are not direct quotes and have been taken wildly out of context. He might have questioned Israel's right to exist, and might have expressed some doubt having seen evidence from those that question the Holocaust, but somehow I doubt that NPR's bits were journalistically sound.

So, the net of it is that NPR and all the rest of the journalistic establishment is still doing all it can to incite the public to support war with Iran using incendiary language at points where the material is presented as strictly factual.

Good work, Thom. And, I am very proud of Columbia's maturity and strength.

Despite it's imperfections, our democtatic experiment is a glorious one -- in a state of evolution. Evolution sometimes includes the appearance of back-stepping.

At this momement, our state is being driven by a drunk, ignorant frat boy and his little, self-serving buddies. Their stupidity and incompetence appear directed to drive us --perhaps the world into a crash. All of this has been enabled by a concerted campaign (media and education) to sever the public's awareness and link to civics.

Jefferson and the collective minds that gathered to declare our experiment were an anwer to the folly, arrogance and stupidity of an external King George. Now, we are confronted by the folly, arrogance and stupidity of an internal King George. Every generation births a "George" and a "Jefferson." It's time to again build the stage for a "Jefferson" to play a role in our next stage of evolution.

I sense the emerging "Jefferson" will also demonstrate some evolved thinking and vision since the last time this voice was summoned to the stage.

It only shows how we have become brainwashed and fallen prey to so many taboos (our military, Israel, etc). Let us listen to all those voices out there. Don't we wish we had listened to Hans Blix or perhaps even Mohammed Khatemi when he was looking for an opening for new relations.
I have little sympathy for Mr. Ahmedinejad. Yet I find it insane to compare him to Hitler, a terrorist or murderer of our boys in Iraq. Perhaps a million Iranians died when we supported Saddam Hussein's war against Iran, including the use of poison gas; perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, including many children died when we imposed a total trade embargo on Iraq after the first Gulf War and kept on bombing the country as we pleased; now two million Iraqis are homeless and many thousands have been killed in our pseudo colonial war for WMD, bringing Saddam to justice, democracy, oil, saving the honor of our military, or whatever reason we wish to use. So who really has the bloody hands?
President Ahmedinejad odes not present any real power in Iran, will not be around much longer, and yet we should listen to what he has to say. Iran is far more and far better than what we have been told. What are we afraid of? The truth?

JEFFREY COURION & JEFFERSON'S GUARDIAN: Very enlightened postings.
BILL from SAGINAW: I surely hope your analysis proves wrong!
BERNICE said, "What in the world has happened to common sense? To a bare minimum of skepticism, especially among journalists? What has happened to our collective memory of all the lies used in 2002/2003." AMEN, sister! Boy is that the honest truth, and something I wonder about. It's like the same idiots would follow THE idiot off the roof over and over again. I thought human beings could learn from their mistakes? Collective memory dysfunction? Hey, has a ring to it... maybe big pharma will get on its case, after all, they are in the BUSINESS of inventing cures for any drummed up pseudo disease or disorder, right?

Honestly, I'm so disgusted with our leaders AND our people I've just about ceased giving a damn. If they fall for this same stinking, fetid pile of bullshit once again, they deserve everything they get and more. Ignorance cannot be used as an excuse forever, nor should it be worn as a badge, which I see time and time again not just with politicians, but with the PEOPLE of this country!

While defending free speech, let's not forget to speak truth to power. President Ahmadinejad is the "Decider" of his own repressive regime: the one who calls out the thugs on student and women demonstrators, the defender of the status quo, and mouthpiece of fundamentalist religious reactionaries and Holocaust deniers (if you don't believe this guy's a denier, you're fooling yourself). Solidarity demands we use our voices in times like these to express our support for those in Iran seeking a new way of living, just as we are in this country.

Let's not let the regressive atmosphere of the U.S. media and politicians determine the ground we stand on when we as Leftists respond to things like Ahmadinejad's visit. We must differentiate ourselves from the media hacks and political pundits not only by critiquing them (which is always necessary) but by pointing beyond free speech to human liberation.

Am I the only Leftist willing to say I would be on the streets protesting this guy, too?

Kristina40: "If they fall for this same stinking, fetid pile of bullshit once again, they deserve everything they get and more."

This is more true than the article above.

Stilba:

I know exactly how you feel! Americans have proven to be highly influenced by fearmongering. I think Hartmann was really saying that rhetorically, with a sense of hope that Americans can be something else if they would follow their better natures.
It is heartening to me that the "elites" have sponsored a talk by Ahmadinejad (had to copy and paste THAT name!), since so often those "liberals" are justifying establishment practices.

President Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

bush says, on the contrary "be afraid. terrified. of shadows, the "dark side" as cheney calls it. of men who live in caves.

you, the opublic, are not allowed to have contact with the "demon" Ahmadinejad or people will see that he is a rather normal, if somewhat impish, man who's biggest defect is that he is not afraid of the amercian war machine, though it is parked just off his shores.

whatever his quirks, Ahmadinejad did not spend 25 years of his life bingeing on cocaine and alcohol, as did bush. he did not sit back and have his daddy get him deferred from the military.

bush says that iran is the biggest threat to the security of the world when in fact he, himslef, is.

maybe he has forgotten china, climate change, modified foods, blackwater, the gop, christian moralists who revel in the dripping blood of the innocenti. they are all fairly dangerous as well.

we see, clear as the nose on our faces, the hate mongers here are the americans and the israelis who seek to dominate the world and more specifically the mideast, so long as there is a drop of oil to be dripped.

bush suspects and sees many devious plots in the iranians but who, i ask, has the plots? who destroyed iraq based on a pile of lies?

who is planning to destroy the iranians?

let us not forget, as well, that it was not the iranians who destroyed wtc - that was the inside job of bushco.

sooner or later the truth of 9/11 will come out. more than half of americans asked blame the government for 9/11 and in nyc the number is over 70%.

wtc will never be a hallowed place until the truth of who detroyed it is known.

in the meantime, bush needs to keep Ahmadinejad out of sight - it makes it easier to demonize him now and then kill him later, as is his plan.

From another thread: "But cynicism like that in the above comments won't help the country; it just makes the speaker feel self-righteously pure."

But the article above 1. States the obvious, 2. Cheers Yankee nationalism, and 3. Enables the Democrats. We do not need more patria in this country, we need more critical thinking and courage. And who of conscience can vote for ANYBODY from the Democratic party? So, what are we to get from the article and all the pats on the back for Thom? Isn't it just another marker to show how far we still have to go?

Readers of Common dreams , Id like to say. This freak of Iran must be destroyed. I agree with everything on common dreams but this. For you to support this freak is disgusting. I can not believe it. He just distorted the hisotry of the holocaust. Your all ill with hate for the creation of Israel. It shows loud and clear. Meanwhile, Israel is leading the way in the new algae bio diesel and solar thermal hydrogen technologies, they are networking peace through permaculture, yet all you can do is suck off and support this evil ruler in Iran? How dare you , you sick, lost, misdirected souls.

Ahmadinejad, not a nice guy--but look at the record of what he said.

he said IF the Nazi extermination camps happened, it is Europe that should house a jewish state--not the middle East.
What is wrong with that?

It got twisted into him saying he denies the Nazi regime atrocities happened.

Then, some idiots in Denmark chose a poor time to run cartoons poking fun at Islam, so Iran decides to host a Holocaust cartoon and denial conference, to test the West's belief in freedom of speech.
The fact that it is punishable by prison to deny that 6 million jews died in camps is an example of censorship of the extreme order.
Is it punishable by prison to deny that the African slave trade happened? Or the Stalin purges? Israel denies that 1 million Armenians were killed because it doesnt want anyone to steal the suffering limelight.

People who deny millions were killed by the Nazis are just fools--it is up to those who say they have the truth to challenge their claims--not censor them.

It is thinking like that that leads to a rise in anti semitisim.

And he said the zionist regime will be wiped from the pages of time. Not the same as saying Israel must be wiped off the map.

Seems like some people have trouble understanding translations.

Excellent Article by Thom Hartmann...quietly speaking Truth to Power is the way to PEACE.

Watching you all create scapegoats (Israel) time and time again, because you can not see how festering and unsustainable you live is the hardest part of being an American. The amount of fossil fuels you use to grow the food you transport to the water you outsource and then send energy around is insane. You would rather deflect your own ill and become appeasers to an evil like Iran.

Ecosutra, please stop talking down to the readers of this forum like they're children or idiots.

Your fear of anybody listening to Iran's president only makes me want to listen to him more (and I do plan to watch). Are you afraid he'll hypnotize me? Kelmer above is so right on, but my saying so doesn't make Israel a scapegoat, and it doesn't make me anti-Israeli. Oh, yippadee-doo, Israel's playing with solar energy. Great. What's it got to do with Ahmadinejad?

I feel like going to GM motors and acting like the guy in the movie, "Thank you for not smoking". I would walk out to the auto union workers and say, "GM is trying to break off fossil fuels and in doing so we have to redirect resources to develop the new plug in electric hydrogen fuel cell cars. We can not afford to sustain the current model to save our nation from the catastrophic events looming from the peak oil timeline. We are seeking sympathy and compromise to the people of this nation so we can make sacrifices to move the nation in the right direction".

What's it got to do with Ahmadinejad? The fossil fuel construct. Did you watch Syriana? THe arab nations use the PA Israeli conflict as a scapegoat to piledge resources and we as well are complicit and are now consolidating the world into a Palm oil mono crop.

At which point the union workers will ask, "Why is it, then, that WE are always the ones asked to sacrifice? When will you with the big bucks actually ask what you can do to help, rather than what more can be done to insulate you from the costs of these changes which you claim are so vital that WE must be destroyed to bring them about?"

In the current corporate/political model, "Compromise and Sacrifice" translates to "making the little guys pay to do things the big guys' way."

Sounds to me like the right wing (even those who call themselves leftists) are afraid that an informed public might notice that ALL of the power parties are lying from start to finish and eventually even start asking awkward questions and demanding the truth.

Which would be devastating to the rightwing, especially the "leftist" rightwingers.

I am willing to bet that 90% of common dreams readers do not acknowledge their unsustainable life and their system of slavery, the mortgage.

stromlike, you are correct, I was being poetic

If in fact, the plan by this administration is to go ahead and try bombing Iran between the primaries and the election, leaving us in tiny littler pieces, then we must remove the demogogues before the primaries.

I, for one, would rather listen to what Ahmadinejad has to say than listen to any more of the bilge that George W. Bush incessantly spews. Iran's president may have twisted some historical facts but for sheer quantity of lies, no one can top our president.

George Bush and Ahmadinejad are in the same league of oil warlords. How can you seperate them?

I so disagree with Mr Hartmann and the majority of posters here. It's inappropriate for Columbia to invite this prominent Holocaust-denier. Let him peddle his Jew-baiting wares at the U.N. It's not just that Bush is demonizing him but that he's willing to play the role. He has the same relationship with Bush as Osama Bin Laden; they're promoting each other's agendas.

It was wonderful for Columbia University to let the president of Iran speak.
A good lesson for our young people. Freedom of speech is still alive (although sick) and that there are two sides to every story.

As JFK said: "We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people."

Didn't the '63 junta kill JFK?

Thought so -

Some jews would bring about a world holocaust.

Wow! What an introduction by Lee Bollinger. Dr. Bollinger why did you not kick Ahmadinejad in the groin and roundhouse his chin while you were on the world's stage? Instead of caving to external pressure to cancel Ahmadinejad's appearance, you instead made a mockery of him on stage for the world to see. Is that what the so called "open forum" of academic discussion is about? Before the other guy even gets to speak, he already has been diminished to rubbish, and that is fair academic debate? What a load of shit! Even if Ahmadinejad acknowledged that the holocaust actually happened (and we all know that there is more than enough historic evidence that it did happen), what a terrible way to introduce a guest speaker. If you need to get your two cents in, pepper the guy during the question and answer session, or have a formal debate. If someone introduced me that way, and I was a guest speaker, I would tell them to "fuck off" and walk off the stage. I am not defending Ahmadinejad, but from a professional and objective perspective, that was an insulting introduction if I ever heard one.

What question would you have asked?

Christ, another preening academic. I thought the event was to hear what the leader of a country we are gearing for war with had to say, but I guess I was wrong.

Ecosutra,

I would have challenged Ahmadinejad on much of what he said during the question and answer session, not when I am introducing the man. To me, if you have a guest speaker, no matter how much you might disagree with that person, in a professional setting, especially an academic one, at least have the decency to introduce the guy without annihilating him to rubbish before he even gets a chance to speak. Then let the anger and frustration come out. To me what Lee Bollinger did was tasteless, classless, and unprofessional.

And once again the AIPAC crowd will rear it's ugly little head and start whining. Their own sins not withstanding we should hate anyone that ever said anything in the least bit disparaging about the zionist regime that now rules Israel.
Ahmadinejad has stated he does not HATE Jews and he never said Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth. He said the REGIME needs to go and any sane Israeli or American should know that is the TRUTH. Sorry if it's inconvenient but the Zionists are every bit as violent and hateful as radical Islam, the only difference is THEY DO HAVE NUKES! It's nice that these conversations show why RADICAL (insert religion here) is WRONG and makes a mockery of all religion...

The American nation may be all those good things that the author claims, but not America today. The two are vastly different. The author is speaking like Bush who equated general Petreus with the entire American military.

If you want to know how good America is you should refer to world public opinion. You may be unpleasantly surprised.

Based on what I read on Yahoo about the personal attacks of Colombia University's president on Ahmadinejad and his use of foul language as well as the swarms of Jews all over that area, one thing about America became undeniably clear: It is almost totally under the control of various Jewish lobbies. Elected officials of one hue or another, including the president of Colombia University, were jumping over each other to prove which one is AIPAC's best ass kisser. That is America today.

A Story

The Sun and the North Wind saw a poor man walking along wearing a jacket. They bet each other that the strongest one could make the man remove his jacket. The North Wind huffed and puffed and blew as hard as he could but the poor man just hugged his jacket tighter and tighter with a scowl on his face. Then the Sun tried by shining brighter and warmer ans soon the man removed his jacket with a smile on his face.

Our MSM and the powers behind them huff and puff. I recall that our much disgraced R.M. Nixon opened China with a Ping-Pong Ball and not a bomb. Life is like a mirror - we see in others our own dark side and we reap what we soe.

Saila, if that makes you feel powerful to place your hatred towards some jewish secret society, then answer me this? Who gains to exploit oil reserves, I have not seen pipelines into Israel. I have no idea where your coming from, but it sounds like you do not hold your life accountable. Its amazing, it would be enough to have the arabs and oil pirates like Bush exploiting the policies to benefit themselves. But when Bush pretends to defend Israel for motives oither than keeping the conflict going so that they can continue their exploitation, and then my side, liberals add in on the hate because they have to scapegoat as well, then I am at a loss of words to explain the ignorance I see around me from intellectual people unwilling to take acknowledgment of their own festering way of over consuming lives. Sure there is injustice in israel when a soldier gets carried away. But you can't hold governments accountable to soldiers misconduct. Blackwater is another story. Hamas and Hezbollah are insurgencies that keep peace out and instability for the exploiters, misguided are the people. Israel and Palastine were so close to peace until the Hamas screwed everything up, and that is a zionist conspiracy? Saila is an anti semite!!!!!!!

I am very proud of Columbia University for having Iran's President as a guest speaker. I thank posters like Kelmer@2:55 for restating the controversial (mis)quote...it is EXTREMELY important. I gotta give Ahmadinejad much credit for having the conviction to come into the "lions den", to state his case. Perhaps, seeing the handwriting on the wall, he decided that the lives of sons and daughters, and innocent civilians are important enough to do what ever it takes to set the record straight. I certainly think it is that important. I can not believe the number of critics who denigrate Columbia for hosting something THIS important; it's beyond comprehension. Ahmadinejad's appearance, otherwise, neutered the US propaganda machine, which has been more active under this administration than any other in our history. I tend to question third hand quotes, especially from certified Chicken-hawk, who have proven themselves capable of lying NATIONS into war.

I wish all religious people that have come to this place called the U.S. would go back to where they came from and take thier religions with them. Feel free to visit and talk about your religion and then, please go home. We had peace in this country before you brought your self-righteous religions and concepts of punishment and hell.

If your religions are so important and civilized you should have stayed in the land of your ancestors.

Ecosutra, honestly, shut the fuck up! I'm sick to death of whining ass posters coming on here calling anyone that disagrees with Israels policies an anti-semite! You sound every bit as reactionary as the asshole that resides in the shit errr I mean White house right now. When Israel kills innocent civilians it's the mistake of over-zealous soldiers but when anyone else does it, it's terrorism? Get some kind of grip on yourself, you're a reactionary asshole and Goddess only knows we have enough of those on this planet...

Humorless people who don't get, and can't intentionally produce, irony were quick to declare it "dead" after 9/11; on the contrary, one cannot help but be drenched in irony wherever one turns these days.

Columbia seemed to hearken back to the interlude between the McCarthy era and 9/11 by refusing to knuckle under to special interests and assorted demonizers, instead resolutely asserting the principles of academic freedom, freedom of speech, and the willingness to give a courteous and open-minded hearing to other points of view, regardless of how controversial or even repugnant they may prove to be.

Except it turns out that this was all just a mousetrap for this Bollinger pustule to bait, berate, and condescend to his guest. Apparently no matter how high one rises on the Ivory Olympus, one cannot resist the temptation to be Big Man on Campus. I can imagine Bollinger settling down to a Scotch and soda at the Faculty Club and relating with relish how he "handled" Ahmadinejad and took him down a peg or two.

I have repeatedly read that, contrary to the prejudices and superstition of wingnuts, that Middle Eastern cultures place a high premium on hospitality. So we put our visiting Iranian official on a stage and sic a "host" on Ahmadinejad who might as well have walked over to him and stubbed a lit cigar out in his eye. I don't know anything about this Bollinger mug, but he seemed to be playing to the corporate infotainwhore/Wingnut/AIPAC Gallery.

I appreciate that just because the US/Israeli government is unfairly demonizing Ahmadinejad doesn't mean he's not a demon. Perhaps. But using an academic forum ostensibly subscribing to an international understanding of intellectual comity as cover to stage a confrontation is unworthy at best.

So the fact that Bollinger took an inquisitorial tone regarding human rights issues is beside the point; if you invite a guest for a fireside chat, you don't seat him in a chair and suddenly thrust his feet into the fire.

I'll be interested to see whether Thom and other CD contributors find Bollinger's grandstanding a turn-off.

Ditto what treefrog said...

The AIPAC and their fuckbuddies the NeoCons have once again triumphed by demonizing yet another middle-east head of state (read Juan Cole). This is just the beginning. They will never rest till we bomb Iran. And a willing, guillible, self-absorbed, apathetic American public will once again get shafted where it hurts.

Surely, Columbia University has presented the grace of American intelligence as a top educational institution in the U.S. to the world, by welcoming the "democratically elected" President of Iran, with a rampant claim by the University' President, naming him as a "petty, cruel dictator." This followed the journalistic excellence seen in the CBS 60 minutes yesterday…

America, I have no hope for you.

To claudius, RickinSF, and Little Brother - my sentiments also. LB, I too will be interested in reading what TH has to say about Bollinger's behavior.