My post to Sen. Betrayed Us Leahey:

SIR:

YOU AND 20 OTHER SO-CALLED DEMOCRATS HAVE LOST YOUR WAY, PANDERING RATHER THAN FIGHTING BACK AT THIS ORCHESTRATED RIGHT-WING ATTACK AGAINST ALL DEMOCRATS. IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS WHY THIS VOTE WAS A TRAP, I THINK RETIREMENT WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO. I PRINTED OUT THE LIST OF TRAITORS FOR SPECIAL DISDAIN AND WILL FINANCIALLY SUPPORT ANY REPUBLICAN WHO RUNS AGAINST ANY OF YOU. BRINGING DOWN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS NOW MY GOAL BECAUSE WHILE REPUBLICANS ARE DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY, DEMOCRATS LIKE YOU ARE DUPLICITOUS BESIDES DESTROYING OUR COUNTRY. IT'S OK FOR OUR TROOPS TO FIGHT ON TO STEAL OIL, BUT NOT FOR YOU TO FIGHT TO STOP THIS ILLEGAL WAR.

YOURS IN DISGUST,

dci

And I mean it.

dci

OVER ONE MILLION PEOPLE MURDERED IN IRAQ

http://www.opinion.co.uk/Newsroom_details.aspx?NewsId=78

September 2007 - More than 1,000,000 Iraqis murdered

"In the week in which General Patraeus reports back to US Congress on the impact the recent 'surge' is having in Iraq, a new poll reveals that more than 1,000,000 Iraqi citizens have been murdered since the invasion took place in 2003."

This is not about right or wrong or good government; as usual it's about power, profit, and greed.

Since republican concern about morality applies only to other people's sex lives, it's not surprising that they play to win.

We've become an amoral, godless nation, not withstanding a lot of contadictory hot air.

The american dream is dead; but, I guess, profits are still good enough for many.

I'm old enough to remember when there were some republicans in congress who were actually patriotic and did some degree of public service. Not a damn one now; and not enough on the democratic side.

(comments from the Titanic)

Our Iraq policy is aimed at forcibly controlling the removal of their oil by American companies, and setting up forward bases for our troops where we think they need to be, regardless of national boundaries and sovereignty. And we want a government in Iraq that will consistently cooperate with whatever we want. That is General Petraeus' mission, and he's doing a great job of it. Maybe with another 20 years and 10 trillion dollars or so, and the loss of another 10,000--20,000 US troops, he can get it done. What's wrong? Does somebody think we should have a different policy?

Congress seems to be forgetting who trashed

The US Constitution
The Bill Of Rights
The Geneva Convention and
Started an illegal war on lies
thus destroying a country, and causing the deaths
of far more than Saddam Hussein.

Talk about betrayal. It certainly isn't MoveOnOrg.

I don't know what game Congress and the Administration
are playing, but every second is another death, and a
threat to International Security.

What would the founders of our country do with these
liars and game players?

You said it!

Golly gee. Looks like Petraeus is real popular with our Senate. Unfortunately our Senate wouldn't get a 25% approval rating from the folks they're supposed to be representing. Bush and Congress are rated only slightly lower than whale feces.

Time to contribute to Move-On. Making a donation seems like a reasonable action to take to let them know we are behind them and we support free speech.

http://www.moveon.org

Garbage 46, radioactive I presume, are you a full blooded storm trooper or do you belong the "Terminator's" muscular buttocks wing of the GOP, the USA's official fascist part? In either case, happy fake gay wedding day in the White House with W and the "Terminator" as long as W's momma's money don't run out paying for that pretty white dress and getting Pat Robertson to be the "lovely flower girl" at the wedding.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2007/09/moveonorg_takes_multiple_hits.html

" Roughly 70 senators do not support MoveOn as a political organization, but more importantly about the same number reject the group's core mission: ending the Iraq war as quickly as possible.

And when MoveOn is backed into a political - and legislative corner - it only has about 25 Democrats it can count on to lend any support.

Regardless of the group's senatorial support, it has not backed down on the controversial ad. A link to the ad, which appeared in the New York Times, remains on the home page. In addition, the group's home page is currently blasting a headline attacking the Cornyn and Boxer resolutions, saying, "The U.S. Senate just told you to sit down and be quiet." It links to an online petition trying to keep pressure on the Senate over the war."

ONLINE PETITION FOR MOVE.ON

http://pol.moveon.org/fightback/

"I will not be quiet, I will fight back, and I will keep speaking out until Congress forces an exit plan for this awful war."

How long before they declare grassroots groups like Moveon.org
as terrorist organizations?

What will it take? An attack on Iran and then a move to silence
any and all dissent?

When that day comes I will not longer post on these boards. It will
be time to take more assertive action because the last stand for
freedom and liberty will have begun.

It is more noble to die fighting for freedom and liberty than to live
in the chains of tyranny.

"If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson

That's more than twice that Minnesota's Klobuchar has voted with the neocons (FISA vote also).

With Democrats like that, who needs Republicans?

Funny thing is that an attack on the First Amendment is an attack on our freedoms. Looks like the list of terrorists just got larger.

To my Senator who tripped all over himself to show his lack of spine:

We honor the men and women who serve in the military. However, just because someone is wearing the uniform with lots of medals does not insure that they speak the truth nor that they speak freely. I stand behind my right to free speech. Whose rights are you defending?

I called both my senators office's this morning and told them what I thought of this crummy vote. To me it is a clear violation of the 1st amendment. Following along after the recent tasering of the Univerity of Florida student it is absolutely frightening to see our constitutional rights being so blatantly denied!

Both parties I talked to were very quiet when I mentioned the 1st amendment issue. Whether it is a group or an individual - freedom of speech is what we Americans are all about. This issue, and maybe the draft as well, ought to be the hot buttomn to get everyone out of their chairs and into the streets!

You would think the Senate would be able to make time for the more important issues of the day - getting out of Iraq, insurance coverage for children, tax reform, tighter corporate control. But no, they act like they're on vacation!

Well, everyone who voted for this resolution should be voted out of office at the next election for not honoring our freedom of speech. As if there was nothing more important to do than condemn a newspaper ad!
Ironically, they may have given a boost to MoveOn with all the publicity they have given them. The traitors have shown their colors now.

DON'T DARE CRITICIZE THE MILITARY.

"Dear Senator Klobuchar,

I've been a lifelong Minnesotan and I'm greatly troubled with your voting alongside the Republicans on both expanding the FISA program and on the exercising of the First Amendment by the organization Moveon.org.

If the goal of terrorists is to curtail our freedoms, our privacy, and civil liberties, don't let them win. Now is the time for true national debate, and a true opposition to Bush's disastrous policies. Courage.

If not oil, what exactly are our troops supposed to be fighting over in Iraq? To preserve our freedoms in some convoluted way? Let's start with the First Amendment. I'm terribly disappointed with your vote. It smacks of creeping fascism."

Why is the Senate wasting time trashing those who are courageous enough to say what has to be said about the horror that is Iraq.
Too bad Sen. Feinstein is not up for re-election this year.

Sen Fienstien, wasn't she the bad witch who gave out all those TWINKIS to Dan White guess she's still doing it!

I just wrote my senator, Dianne Feinstein, and blasted her for her vote on this issue, and I suggest everyone whose senator(s) voted to condemn MoveOn do likewise, vociferously and with no small degree of outrage. I cannot believe Dianne did this, but I am not letting it pass without an outraged comment from me. Disgusting, outrageous and not to be borne in silence.

methinks they doth protest too much....everybody who can,should send donations to moveon...hopefully they will keep up the 'good'fight.....

Betray us! Oh, heaven forefend, Senate!
Oh Fiddledeedee!!!

If you're going to pass a resolution against such an accurate judgment, you'd better pass another against what Admiral
William Fallon called General David Petraeus! First, though, you'd have to
look up what he said. Because the mainstream press won't circulate it or
was too dumb to have it register.

I'll translate it into Greek, knowing that
the ears of all Senators are too sensitive
for English or American.

He called him a SYCOPHANT! Only in dirty
American version! Look it up! Apparently,
you can find it at ten different websites!
Go Senate! Get that Admiral!

In the meantime, here's a message from one
voter: Drop dead, Republicans! Drop dead,
Democrats!

Hopefully, these same dems and reps are going to find themselves without a senate seat in 2008. We need fresh faces in the senate

Let's go ahead and euthanize the First Amendment. It's comatose anyway.
Who the Hell is Betray Us, God? Even MacArthur, who was more revered in his time (I dissented) than Betray Us is now, was not held to be above criticism.
When the Cheney Administration begins bombing Iran, these worse-than-useless legislators will immmedately fall in behind Cheney.

Hmmph. BushKrauts R Us. Unbelievable what these Morons think is priority. I wonder how often they have to change their kneepads.

COMark: "So America is now a place where simply wearing a uniform makes one immune to criticism."

Wearing a uniform has, except in the from about 1965-1975 ALWAYS made one immune to criticism in America. This is why the mantra "support the troops" is being repeated by Rethugs & Dims alike.

Americans love war. That's not a political fact, its a cultural one. "Freedom isn't free," etc. etc.

American civilians are oblivious to the cost of war-- war always happens "somewhere else", 9/11 being the only exception, which was an isolated terrorist act. Pearl Harbour was an attack on a military installation.

What made the military unpopular in Vietnam was the media coverage. They were exposed to the horrors of what war really was.

Desert Storm/Shield and Kosovo led to a more hermetically sealed war in regards to the media (remember the "smart bomb" videos, nice & bloodless).

As long as its somebody else being killed, that's all that matters. And most Americans that DO want out of Iraq, its only because AMERICANS are getting killed and are in danger-- not because its an immoral war waged on completely false pretenses & people's lives have been made even WORSE than when living under Saddam.

But you must NEVER EVER criticise the military-- EVER. They are only following orders (like Eichmann!) and they are "protecting our freedoms" (which, again, seeing how this war was waged on false pretenses it has abosolutely NOTHING to do with protecting America's national security).

Be a good American & give a seig heil! Otherwise you aren't supporting the troops! Thats UNAMERICAN! *gasp!*

What exactly does it mean by 'amendment' and what is 'repudiation'?

With all due respect to the Senate's delicate sensibility and highest regard for civil discourse, and its concomitant righteous denunciation of incivility and wanton attacks on honorable persons of authority, I nevertheless must regretfully declare: Bite me! :mad:

Republicans can attack war heroes like Kerry and Max Cleland and call them all sorts of names but any suggestion that Petraeus "cooked the books" is condemned in the Senate.

Well what can you say. Many of the Democratic leaders are absolute fools and most Americans are hypocrites.

If you are a Democrat your war service can be attacked, while if you are a Republican and in the military you are a hero.

What idiot would join the military under those conditions? unless of course you are a Republican.

Bush has been incredibly successful at damaging America.

"The Senate approved a resolution condemning the ad and all attacks on members of the military by 72-25."

How nice!

When is the Senate going to approve a resolution condemning the attacks on our military members involved in Iraq's civil war, along with a resolution to bring them home?

Doesn't anyone smell a rat? I sure do. It seems like Moveon.org pulls one of these stunts at a crucial time so that subjects get changed just at the right time.

What is this business about playing around with a general's name? This is 5th grade stuff.

There are plenty of other ways to insult a general without being so absurd. How about "chair warmer" How about "Kiss Up - Kick Down"?

I really don't trust these people. If I was running a Nazi takeover, I would set up an organization just like them to generate phony crises and issues. This is the second time we've had to pay attention to their stunts.

Colleen, I agree with you on the surface, but we can't desert some of these guys, notably Russ Feingold, who is not a candidate, but who would make the best president of the bunch. Keep the faith until Bush commits hira kari and the Democrats re-group. You will have a chance then to find one of the top guys to vote for... and donate a little to, as well.

hetzer

Bush has betrayed America

Impeach Bush and Cheney

Dividing the contry again- I smell an election coming...no a new war...no an election...no a war..........

Hey MoveOn, it's time to MOVE ON out of the Democratic Party. Be independent or find a third party that is not afraid to stand up to sociopathic corporate entities and the military industrial not-so-complex. I'm waiting with my checkbook for you to make that move.

busterkikki

Russ Feingold is one of the good guys.

He should not be the exception. Why do we have so many idiots leading us?

I saw Russ Feingold in someone's home and he was fund raising for that idiot Casey.

I suppose Casey is a step up from Santorum. What is wrong with America?

I feel like I'm watching a bad horror movie...Why do so many Congressional members repeatedly refuse to use any common sense and simply get away from the villains? As a panic stricken viewer I scream, "NO NO...run away! Didn't you see what happened last time? You're heading right into the trap!". Frustrated and filled with doom, I watch as they choose to walk right into the danger zone, again, and practically hand the Bush/Cheney administration their chainsaws so they may turn our constitution and the rights of the American people into hamburg, again.

I agree with the comments to donate to MoveOn.org...become a member...help to make their organization stronger. This is OUR country. Let's each do our part to help take it back. The best way we can support our troops is to have undying determination to do whatever is necessary to fight against the abuses inflicted upon our nation by the current administration and demand that our troops come home!

Hetzer: I agree. There are several complex issues here. Free speech, the reactions of the Senators reflected in their voting, civil decorum, etc.

But childish or not, free speech is free speech. This is starting to make me second-guess my caution with regard to the Florida tazering incident. While that guy was possibly egging them on, and being rude, the first amendment makes no clauses about satire, language, name-calling, etc. For how long has the left had to suffer name-calling from right-wing hate radio and Faux News?

I'm not sure why Moveon is aiming at the general, though. Clearly he's a political player, but although his strings are pulled by Bush/Cheney, the war was not his decision to start or to end.

Dear Senate:

In something you said in your resolution about General "Betray Us," as in so much of your blather, there was the suggestion that we should all support the troops.

Well, I will support some of them-- the ones who have correctly renounced the Iraq
War (better called the Iraq Occupation)
as self-destructive to America and Iraq and the world and stupid.

The others, though, volunteered-- despite what they so easily could have learned. Did they know the exact odds of their being wounded or killed when they were recruited, based on those previous figures for American soldiers? Of course not, and that is just one of the many items they didn't look into.

I don't think it's enough to say they were products of a flawed education produced by "No Child Left Behind" or that they came from poor families where the information wasn't good.

The facts were out there, even as street knowledge, but they refused to consider them.

What I am saying is very serious, that these soldiers are enablers of war, just
as surely as the present administration, Congress, the press, radio and television.

And war, though inherently stupid (consider David Halberstam's latest and last book-- on Korea), is especially stupid in this case, maybe the stupidest
in American history, with the real potential to start World War III if we don't get out right now!

The grim scenarios being painted of what
happens if we withdraw can all be presented, more surely, as what will happen if we stay.

Two words can summarize what the military thinks about the suggestion that donning a uniform sets one above reproach: 'court martial.'

colleen September 20th, 2007 4:49 pm
The politicans are disgusting.
No money to these people from me:
====================

Why stop at your list? No money and support for the Dems - period.

And by the eay - Betray Us is a mild word. Our troops are committing war crimes in Iraq. An illegal war of aggression is a war crimes. Troops who participate in a war crime are war criminals - including this "Gen real Betray Us"

STABBED IN THE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since the Democrats took back congress, since day one, they have stabbed their supporters in the back.
I don't believe just how low Washington has sunk to. It shocks even me, a person who has always believed that politicians are criminals.

Make no mistake about it, the scum of the American sit in the Congress and the White House. I just hope Moveon truly does move on and supports the Green Party from now on. How many times do the Democrats have to stab us in the back before we wake up?

I don't believe there is a part of Hell hot enough for these democratic cowards, betrayers, enablers, liars. We need a complete overhaul of the system, but that may not happen any time soon unless we have a complete economic collapse.

Free speech is free speech. The only constraint I would place on "free speech" is when it's funded for a particular political end. This "end" is not political. It concerns US policy, one that is killing millions of people, and causing undo hardship to many millions more.

Biden said two nights ago (in essence, not exact quote) that "what you heard is frustration. These people [MoveOn] are frustrated and angry. I may not agree with what they said or how they said it, but I understand why they said it. They're frustrated, we're all frustrated about this war and want to get it over with and bring the troops home as quickly as possible."

Free speech is free speech. Period.

Hagel said (again in essence) "it was shameful for the Administration to put a general in front to explain their policy. It was shameful, deceitful, and spineless of them to do that."

Hagel was exercising his free speech.

peaceistruth:

And abandon the 25 Democrats who had the courage to vote against the resolution? Now what purpose would that serve? The goal should be 26, 27, 28, 29, 30...51....60.

Support the 25. Too bad they're not in a different party though. They give undue credibility to the remainder.

I will be writing Senator Kohl a letter.

Pathetic vote on his part.

And how about that Obama? Hey, all you Obamaniacs, wake up!

I am really heartened by all the previous comments listed here. The people truly are picking up the scent of this whole smelly affair with Petraeus. Kudos to Move On and to all the remaining "human beings" still working diligently in the U.S. Congress. Now, can someone explain to me why Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel were not invited to participate in the recent Iowa debates? I have a feeling that, because of this deliberate action, these gentlemen SHOULD be our choices for Pres and Vice-Pres in 2008!! Obviously, the "powers that be" are not smiling down upon them because they are too honest and dedicated to the will of the people. Did you all know that the very same Mike Gravel helped Daniel Ellsberg deliver the Pentagon papers to the press during Nixon's Watergate fiasco? All the more reason to support them, correct? So take heed, folks!! Keep your eyes and ears open to what's happening in our so-called democracy today!!!

I'm writing a letter to my Senator Feinstein D-CA and tell her how ashamed I am of her for joining in this silly act. Where were the Senators when Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld were telling lies to the American public about WMD's? I think they forgot about the SwiftBoat ad's that were sponsored by the repugs. I watched Keith Olberman tonight and all I can say is "SAY IT AGAIN KEITH".

Marta, thank you for "But it's all good. Now, we all know who is a Republican in drag, and fight against their reelection".

MoveOn should keep on punching and come back with an ad identifying our "Republican's in Drag" (RID?) to be replaced by liberals with a backbone in the next election cycle.

Get the broom!

Paul, yes yes, I know. I got a little carried away at first, the numbers didn't sink in at first but I still believe any senator voting to "condemn" an ad that attacks a tool of the worst president in American history is one too many.

The 25 who didn't vote to condemn should have first shouted out "why are we wasting time on this nonsense?" Regardless, bravo to them.

Still, I have given up on the Democrats. There is too little difference between them and the Republicans. The Democrats are controlled by the war-mongering corporations. Try to get more progressive democrats elected and the corporatists and the media will destroy them; unless there was a way to destroy the cancer that is the DNC and usher in a new era of a democratic party supported by the progressive grass roots. If someone can show me how it can be done, I will start supporting the Democrats again.

The tyranny of etiquette strikes: if you want to criticize the violent deaths of around a million Iraqis caused by US (plus soon 4 000 US soldiers), be polite. Or else you're not "decent". To be complicit in the violent death of a million ordinary people (as all US citizens in principle are) is not indecent. It's "bad form" to refer effectfully to bad acts by US.

Toe the line – the line defined by US.

In Naomi Wolf's excellent article "Fascist America, in 10 Easy Steps", step 5 "Harass citizens' groups" applies to this case. Step 9 "Dissent equals treason" also fits.

For more, read Wolf's new book "The end of America: A Letter of Warning To A Young Patriot".

*

At least, General Petraeus is now forever branded with "GENERAL BETRAY US". The Senate vote reinforces that. Neat.

Hey, why stop there? Why not have an amendment that doesn't allow people to attack or criticize men & women in uniform? I'm sure that Fox News would jump on the band wagon to restrict free speech in this manner. Slowly, but surely we all know they want to restrict free speech, which will effectively, in their mind destroy the "liberal media". Viva la fascisma Americana!

I'm still waiting to hear why impeachment was never a part of the discourse! Are only republicans (especially the extreme conservatives) the only "patriots" allowed to speak up in this country? McCain's desire for the removal of Moveon to move off is akin to telling all the antiwar protesters to leave this country. The republic (not a democracy!) was founded on the ideal of freedom of speech and acceptance of differing views but we seem to have lost sight of that in the fervour created since 9/11. That is a sad commentary on the state of our nation. And aren't we still in Korea?