Veiwing the comments on this article and the incident so far, I am amazed.

First, what happened was not a "stunt" as Fox news would like people to think, nor did the police have any reason to be harassing the young man as John Kerry said, and I was pissed as people in the audiance just sat on their duff and watched like sheep as it went down. But then, this is the character of the American people, to sit back and go along with fascism. I was not shocked and awed by the scene, its not like it was an exception, seems very common in this country that has always placed might over right.

As a person of African and Native descent in this country, the repression of those who speak out by agents of the status quo is very old hat, it is something we have experienced from the day the first damn pilgrims landed. They tasered my ancestors out of their land and labor, they tasered the "American people" out of two elections, tasered this country into returning to invasion and conquest in Iraq, tasered foriegn nationals and so-called "citizens" into black holes and indefinite detention (slavery), tasered most of the so-called "progressive" white left into silence and complicity with all this tasering, as they sat back like that audience (led by that fascist liberal Kerry)and watched the take down of that "trouble maker" as if it were just another lynching (another favorite American past time).

This country is an apartheid state, a fascist state, and it is becoming even more of a police state even for whites. Revulsion is not enough, there must be revolution, not to save America, but to save the world by doing away with it, dismantling this hypocrisy that claims to be a democracy. Think about the silence and complicity of America with regard to the outrage that is going on in Jena, Louisiana, New Orleans, and so many other places from sea to polluted sea.

The Taser:

I immediately read about tasers, upon seeing the Meyer news and videos.

They are extremely dangerous, and they constitute not a deterrent to crime, nor a self defense weapon for police; rather they constitue a form of cruel and unusual punishment which is meted out by police illegally for two obvious reasons:

1. The person tasered is never arraigned and sentenced before the administration of the taser.

2. Tasering is obviously a cruel and painful punishment administered not just to stun the body but to cow the nerves and the brain and the mind. It's electroshock.

Electroshock is a controversial treatment, used in psychiatric hospitals. The use of it frequently borders on the sadistic, either inadvertantly or sadly by design.

Last time we were treated to this was when the photos of Abu Ghraib came out in the news. The prisoners there were being electroshocked.

That is what happened to Andrew Meyer, using a taser, instead of the wires we saw in the Abu Ghraib photos.

Police taser wheelchair-bound woman to death, http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkmg/20070919/lo_wkmg/14147512

Wow I can't believe how many apologists there are on this discussion board. I'm willing to bet if this was a republican forum there would be 100% consensus on this issue. And please...if Kerry really cared he would have got off the stage and actually investigated what was happening to the guy and perhaps even tried to help him....instead of drolling on in his monotonous zombie voice.

He was probably resisting the fascist campus security rent-a-cops because they aren't even real cops and they had no right to touch him in the first place. You can hear him asking, "what did I do?" They couldn't give an explanation because he didn't do anything.
There isn't a more cut-and-dry example of brutality than this. They already had the guy pinned to the ground when they tasered him. In addition almost 200 some people have died from being tasered by policed. You won't hear that being mentioned by the coporate lapdogs in the MSM.
Finally, Who cares if the guy (allegedly) barged to the front of the line or upset. 1). the dude actually had thought-provoking questions to ask as opposed to the effete questions most indoctrinated college students posit 2). He was upset...no...more like outraged and that's what we need in this country is a little more outraged but in this fascist police state we live in I guess no one is even allowed to get mad anymore.

By the way I read today Orange County police tasered an autistic 15 year old for playing in traffic yesterday. What a country...

About Tasers:

Police are using tasers, which are compared to electric cattle prods at wikipedia, in order to punish people who resist their commands, and or arrest.

This is not the same as using physical force.

It is not the same as using a gun in self defense.

Using a gun in self defense is a last resort. It is ONLY IN SELF DEFENSE, OR IN THE DEFENSE OF ANOTHER CITIZEN.

The danger of using a gun makes it harder for law enforcement to use it without reviews etc.

The taser is not an instrument of self defense. It is used to punish, to prod to "stun," the resistor.

For instance the police could also be given guns with darts that drug the person they are arresting. Or they could administor an injection.

We would not approve of this.

But the taser is different then even this because it is the use of pain to get results by the police.

This is illegal. It is cruel and unusual punishment administered without a judicial process by policeman.

It has to stopped, completely.

Okay. Now most of you are getting it. We ARE in a dictatorship. They are taking our freedoms away, one by one..incrementally, so hopefully we won't notice.

But we do notice. MOST AMERICANS NOTICE and have for quite a while. What do we do about it?

Do many of you still think that we should be dis-armed? Do you really think it wise to push for gun control? It's never wise to have gun control but now it's absolutely insane.

We need to stop bickering among ourselves. We need to stop pointing the finger at each other. We need to organize and spread the word.

We need another American Revolution.

Sorry, wrong question buddy...ZAAAAAP!!

Even without the taser, the amount of force used at this incident seemed to me to be way out of proportion to what was happenning.
The student wasn't threatening anyone, he was holding a book, referring to that book in regard to his questions to Mr. Kerry. He was understandably dramatic. After all, if in the near future the draft is reinstated, he'd be one of those liable to be drafted and sent to Iraq or Iran. I'd be dramatic, too, and I applaud him for doing exactly what so many here prescribe as the only way out of the current quagmire.

As someone earlier in the thread has said - if journalists and media in general, whose job it is, and who get paid for doing it asked these questions, students wouldn't need to. The fact that they do at least shows there's hope for the future.

This goes back to something I wrote earlier today and can't get out of my head in regards to this article.

I'm sure Naomi means well, but she's still a shill even if she's a shill for the revolution.

there are certain subjects that are going to rile everyone up at commondreams. the coming war with Iran is one, loss of freedom of speech is the other. When an article like that gets published everyone has something to say including me twice.

But when people try to sell us the revolution it loses it's validity. It's disingenuous. Both this article and the incident have kind of disingenuous written all over them. There's a point, ok, but I wonder if I speak alone when I say I don't want have to pay someone who's trying to make a buck off it, or trying to draw attention to themselves from it.

I want the real thing and I want it for free! Because people believe in it so deeply that they'll give it away. oh it's out there, this just isn't quite right.

Paul Craig Roberts wrote a much better article on this this am at Counterpunch. I'm sure you've all read it.

lol canuckchuck, you just reminded me of the scene in Ghostbusters where Bill Murray keeps shocking the guy that guesses at what shape is on the cards he's holding, he zaps him even when he's right! The sexy coed of course always "guesses" right and never gets zapped, seems like a fitting analogy...

Where is Senator Kerry RIGHT NOW, THIS EVENING, AND WHAT HAS HE SAID to take a position? Where is Kennedy? Jesus H. Christ, what has happened to our leaders?!?

I sympathize with my fellow posters from Florida. Florida is a mess in every way. Education sucks, rednecks run wild, Bible thumpers abound and Republicans and especially GW dickwad are their heroes STILL...The general concensus of the customers where I work is the Middle East should be nuked out of existance. They agree the war should end, they just have a different way to end it than sane, rational people. They think anyone that speaks ill of our President or our Countrie's motives should be deported or shot (although I think the vast majority here lean towards the latter).

If I was there, if this was my college, I would have gotten up and screamed at the police to STOP, screamed at the person who legally should be president right now to DO SOMETHING. I won't address the pathetic right wing trolls who have posted here defending police; I didn't even read your posts, because you aren't a legitimate part of the dialog. It is good that so many posters here do see that this crime on the part of the police and bystanders has sweeping implications. It is simply insane that this person was treated this way for asking questions, but as the gun is pointed at Iran, I hope more people dare to ask, and I hope sometime that an audience is able to repel the police from torturing someone, and shatter their tasers into a million little pieces.

http://www.dreamingearth.net

It is time to organize a national strike for peace and impeachment. Planing is already underway at www.pledgetoimpeach.org but needs to be organized by multitudes of groups. These are scary and important times.

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"I wonder if I speak alone when I say I don't want have to pay someone who's trying to make a buck off it, or trying to draw attention to themselves from it."

I feel the same way.

It seems some people have made careers out of this kind of thing. It can be very counterproductive. Sometimes I wonder. If someone can be so identified with a kind of problem, and their career and image all wrapped up in it, do they really have an interest in finding solutions.

Someone can easily say all the right things, for good reasons, but also for the sake of their image, their creative form, career, the prestige of being considered serious by serious magazines, etc.

We need some capacity for scrutinizing our motivations and thinking about the end result.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.html?in_article_id=482560&in_page_id=1965

If you think Meyers was asking for it; watch this, it happened last week!
Of course Rev, Yearwood deserves it because he's a "dirty" dissenter. See him try to balance on his soin with his broken leg and his hands behind hios backin cuffs!
Faschism anyone?

That is balance on his spine!

Naomi Wolf says Meyer was "tasered by police when he asked a question."

Is that the same as "tasered by police while resisting arrest?"

I think the police over-reacted, but I also think Naomi Wolf's article is shameless bullshit.

Nobody disputes that Meyer was already a YouTube prankster. He made sure it was all on video, and traded a few seconds of pain from a taser for a million hits on YouTube.

It's just like all those other YouTube videos where a guy hits himself in the head with a baseball bat, or sets himself on fire, chasing 15 minutes of fame.

Meyer was abused and shouldn't have been.

His arrest was illegal and charges will probably be dropped within weeks if not days.

The police actions were illegal and Meyer should sue for a hefty award.

Kerry and most of the crowd were irresponsibly passive.

The First Amerndment to the Constitution was trampled on.

. . . and this tempest, which has caused such an uproar, welcome though that uproar is to me and many of us, is NOTHING compared to what's inflicted on Iraqis by the dozens and hundreds every day.

NOTHING.

Only because it took place close to home and involves a celebrity like Kerry does this incident cause upset and controversy.

As it should.

But if more of us were possessed of less selfishness, more empathy, and a greater desire to accept responsibility for what our country does to other human beings abroad, then we long ago would have compelled the impeachment of a runaway executive and stopped an illegal and immoral war.

We can still do this.

A modest step, mounting toward something more massive in a few months, might be found here:

http://www.iraqmoratorium.org

I disagree with those who say that nonviolent civil disobedience cannot work. It can--with education, training, will, discipline, cooperation, truthfulness, compassion, consistency, endurance, and a growing number of participants. Violence will only breed violence, and the ruling class has the advantage of well-armed military and paramilitary protectors.

This Friday will be the first day of the Iraq Moratorium, for now a monthly action the third Friday of each month to come.

Visit the website for more information and please consider taking part.

Thanks for listening.

--Vietnam War vet and member, Veterans for Peace

The corporate press is going out of its way to find fault with the young man as if to justify the crime perpetrated against him, and all of us. And many reading this article buy it hook line and sinker: The tasered kid is a prankster. He's incoherent. He said a naughty word. He seems like a goof, taping his own practical jokes. He forced Kerry to answer a question. He rushed the microphone. Oh the poor frightened microphone!

You name it, it's all there to paint a picture of a kid who is not worthy of First Amendment protection or of freedom from the excessive use of force. No analysis of what actually happened, except for all the things the kid did wrong . No reference to his own non-violence. Derision of his cries for help as 'glib' catch phases. No analysis of the increasing use of tasers in non-critical situations, despite their well known lethality for the many, often innocent, victims of police violence. The student was tasered four times.

Freedom of speech in today's Amerika is real so long as no one hears you, no one believes you, no one thinks you have a brain in your head and most of all no one acts on what you say. The moment a radical voice gains traction it is ridiculed and derided. Intelligence, morality, patriotism and humanity are questioned. And, if that doesn't work, its character assassination, official harassment, physical assault, police violence, false arrest, false imprisonment and in the most extreme cases, for the truly effective and resilient, execution. Just ask MLK's ghost.

And, with our ranks populated by pseudo-progressives like some here, justifying the police violence because they don't like the tasered kid, It's no wonder our culture continues to slouch lemming-like toward the precipice, as so-called leftists twiddle their tongues.

It really doesn't matter what side we fall on - with the kid or with the establishment. The fact is, and it has been proven, that people in power take on the role of people in power and people who are powerless take on the role of people who are powerless.

This was proven in the 1971 experiment at Stanford University. Google "stanford prison experiment" for more info. We are human and act accordingly.

Now, knowing this - what the hell can we do to wrest control back from those who we have handed it over to and who have then taken on their role with sadistic gusto? I think, first of all, we need to stop supporting the powerful ones when their heels are on our throats. Second, we need to stop attacking each other. We do so only because it's a psychological response to being controlled. We need to understand human psychology in order to overcome the dark aspects of it.

I don't like loud-mouthed louts either, and maybe this kid, Meyer, is one. But I'll take the loud-mouths any day over controlling thugs. Those who need/like to be controlled have their own issues, and we shouldn't acquiesce to them.

gabi September 19th, 2007 6:21 pm

just my take … but I see it as a florida repub "set up" to make Dems/kerry look bad

========

And gabi, who or what are you? But just tell me if it was a set up then what kept Kerry from doing the right thing? Like, protecting our free speech, like stopping police brutality,....?

Suds:

Thank you. You're spelled out the correct answer (at least -I- thought that was the OBVIOUSLY correct answer) in 3 short paragraphs. Kudos.

wow,i cant believe the insults you bigots are throwing at we the people of florida...contrary to your stereotype notions..the cream of creativity and spiritual evolvment,reside here.the election was stolen in florida by the carpetbagger=jeb bush.we sit on one of the greatest aquifers in the world and that is why we are first(second,since louisiana accidently got it first) on the 'HIT'list of bush.st.augustine,florida where the fannion of an infant nation was FIRST annointed and the blood of huegonots,saints and martyrs ran in the ground and the decendants of geronimo were born.i am appalled at the ignorance and bigotry some of you have blogged here.i think you owe me(and florida) an apology.i was only trying to tell you that the andrew meyer incident was not a set-up/the police were not mindful of the cameras,because they were following the standard procedure for civil disobedience(or resisting arrest),instated as policy in florida,courtesy of jeb bush(his legacy to us)

Jacob Freeze:

"Nobody disputes that Meyer was already a YouTube prankster. He made sure it was all on video, and traded a few seconds of pain from a taser for a million hits on YouTube.

It's just like all those other YouTube videos where a guy hits himself in the head with a baseball bat, or sets himself on fire, chasing 15 minutes of fame."

You're implying that this man's actions were met with the proper (and thus expected) response.

You equate speaking at a public forum after being called upon and refusing to be polite about atrocity with hiting yourself in the crotch for laughs.

Do you seriously expect anyone to take this shit seriously? Is democracy really just a joke to you?

Perhaps you're right, (I'm feeling generous, don't read this as any kind of agreement) maybe he WAS trying to get some good video of him chewing out Kerry. Do you really think that he knew he would be assaulted with a deadly weapon for the fact? (If you try to say I'm being overdramatic with the term "assault with a deadly weapon" you'll end up looking like even more of a fool as I can readily prove that point) Do you expect that he'd end up with some fat-assed skinhead cop grinning like a fucking 5 year old and pulling the trigger on a taser? (boy, there were alot of video cameras there, many different angles of video)

Only weakling pansies who are afraid of real freedom would expect something like that. Hmmm, you seemed to think that's proper. You're not one of those weakling pansies I'm talking about, are you?

Of course you are, as are all of your other tough talk prick buddies who are so scared of the truth and freedom, and so attached to a (false) us vs them mentality that you're willing to destroy democracy so that your chosen team can 'win' (at your expense, believe it or not) and are left shaking in your boots at something as dangerous as the truth.

Come to think of it, you SHOULD be scared of the truth, it's eventually going to bring your whole little worldview tumbling down, and bad-asses like you are too sensitive for things like that.

It looks like a lot of the wawas are closed tonight after 12a. For a "technology upgrade." Wonder if that means an upgrade by big brother to get a better view.
I think I will start using cash just in case. I am already being spammed and junkmailed to death. I am so good at ignoring ads and commericals around me-I almost ignore important things too.
Well yes, they do want a subordinate group of sheep they can wind up to buy and use credit. When they join us all(Mexico, Canada and USA) they will issue the bird flu warning and shoot if you leave your house.
Unless you are rich, you will be of no concern to the others. Beggers in the street like a 3rd world country.

Meyer was a bit high strung and slightly strident when asking his questions, but he was within what should have been his Constitutional Rights to ask those questions. The Police were 1) Too quick to take action, and 2) Too forceful when they did. If Meyer had asked his questions a 2nd or 3rd time, or tried to cause a deliberate and innapropriate disturbance AFTER asking his questions, the Police would have been correct in removing him. This was not the case here.

The disturbing thing is, Meyer didn't get a chance to complete the initial questions or hear Kerry's potential responses. I sincerely hope Meyer sues the pants off the Florida Police. I for one am willing to contribute to a Meyer defense fund! I think he has a rock solid case.

Also, John Kerry should have taken charge of the debacle immediately and vehemently. It is apparent from his lack of strength that Kerry may not have been Presidential material after all.

I am a student affairs administrator at a college in Pennsylvania. It is very common in such Q & A sessions for a student questioner to be nervous, anxious, loud, and obnoxious - especially when he is well aware that he is asking very inconvenient and challenging questions to a very powerful figure. Kerry acknowledged the students question and was engaged in a clumsy dialogue with him. I'd like to know this: Where were the college administrators or faculty who must have been present in that room? Who gave the police the order to confront the student? Where was a college administrator or faculty member when the student was being tasered in the back of the room? Such a person SHOULD have forcefully called off the police and insisted that the student not be tasered. The fact that the people in that auditorium - and the people around the country are 'split' about whether the police acted appropriately is very disturbing. The student and the guest speaker should have been allowed to finish their dialogue and the police should not have acted in the manner they did. If I had been a responsible administrator in that auditorium when this thing went down and I didn't act to protect that student and to allow the dialogue to continue, I would expect to be fired or I would resign in shame. I certainly hope John Kerry speaks out forcefully on behalf of that student and his right to have completed his question and dialogue with Kerry. If Kerry forcefully supports this student (which he absolutely should if he has any character at all) this very unfortunate event may be righted in some way. Anything less than that and this event will be a dark moment far into the future.

Just wanted to respond to the many arguments that go like this:

"...but I also think we should be very skeptical about Mr. Meyers'motives."

It seems to me that his motives are irrelevant, and while skepticism is a great thing it would probably be better employed with respect to Kerry and the police and the zillions of other empowered scoundrels who are destroying our country. Why is it necessary to help them out by impugning the motives of the few individuals who seems willing to confront them?

Nobody is a saint. Whatever his motives, Meyers has done us all a great service by bringing something important to light.

As others have said, the problem here is the issue of escalation -- Andrew Meyer was rude, yes, intentionally provocative, yes, but the police response of TORTURE (let's call tasering what it is) was clearly excessive. I think it's emblematic of how violence as become a first resort throughout our society.

I am not so cynical as some on this board, but I worry that the erosion of liberty in just a few short years combined with growing economic inequality and hardening cultural divisions are putting us on course for a bloodbath within another generation. I don't think it would quite be Nazi Germany, but I do think something like either the Spanish Civil War or the French Revolution (depending on who wins) is looking pretty damn likely. In either case, I feel that as a person of conscience, I may well need to think of what I am willing to die for, as I can't bring myself to think of what I could be willing to kill for, and hope that I never come to that place.

How sad that I am now reminded of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

Actually I think in both cases it has a lot to do with the specific people who were hired to be security. It would make sense that a person who likes and wants power would want to work in such a job. Or a person who likes to follow orders. And if that person got a chance to work at a really high profile event, they might be pretty excited about using whatever power they felt they had. Maybe somebody couldn't wait to try out their new stun gun!

Someone in another thread posted this link to Jean Altmeyer's book about the authoritarian personality. I am posting it again here because the book is so good!
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

I do believe that the fact that people went along with the tasering is a bad sign. And there have certainly been a lot more events recently that show that we are losing our freedom of speech. But now I am thinking this is more about a few people who normally feel resentful and powerless getting their chance to "take down" some "punk college kid".

Neomunk and many other semi-literate square-heads can't read what anyone who disagrees with them actually writes, and have to supply a boatload of "implications" out of their own limited imagination.

I think the police over-reacted, but I also think Naomi Wolf's article is shameless bullshit, and anyone who can't recognize Meyer as a prankster who paid for a huge YouTube success with a little discomfort is too square to boogie.

The guy has had prankish videos all over YouTube, and now he has another. He made sure it was all on video, and did what he had to do to be famous for a few days. John Kerry as always acquitted himself in a stiff but gentlemanly manner, and that's all there was to it.

Naomi Wolf is too tragically unhip to recognize a prank if it bit her on the ass, and likewise with most of the posters on this thread.

Thank you, Siouxrose, for your thoughtful, calming and eloquent discourse....I admire your contributions to CD. BMA/Texas

cathreese:
I'm not trying to be rude or dismissive, but I believe your ideas about anything like either the Spanish Civil War or the French Revolution are seriously misplaced.

Technology is the factor you're not counting in. Neither the French or the Spanish had UAVs, cluster bombs, armored personnel carriers, night visions, low altitude radar, digital imaging with realtime satellite feeds, helicopters with chainguns or stealth bombers.

They didn't have a 500-channels-of-the-same-stereotypes zombification-on-tap mass media machine comperable to what exists today. Disinformation is powerful.

They didn't have pain inducing rayguns:
http://tinyurl.com/3bmlod

They didn't have biological, chemical or nuclear weapons. It's the last two I fear most, especially the nuclear weapons. I most certainly DO think that the people in power would use them (more readily in fact) against their own citizens if it looked like we really WERE going to win. In fact, I have no doubt of it.

The second American Civil War will be the most brutal conflict ever fought, or it will be the quickest and easiest suppression of a populous ever, one of the two. I think the odds of it falling anywhere between those two extremes is remote, and growing fainter by the day as the fascists entrench themselves deeper into the governing system.

I didn't get far into reading the comments before seeing several accusing the student of being "provocative" and of inappropriate behavior.

All I saw in the videos was questions asked assertively. I assume that many people who are posting feel that the appropriate behavior, when asking questions of a public official, is a grovelling and apologetic one.

Since when is it okay to arrest someone for not grovelling enough? Since when is it right for police to try to cut off a questioner, because they don't like his questions?

And what does the student's history of making prankish videos have to do with the incident? That's not illegal either.

Apparently there are a few people posting here who think that no one should be allowed to ask tough questions, to speak in assertive tones, or to have an expectation that their right to freedom of speech will be respected.

Andrew Meyer was NOT rude and NOT intentionally provocative. Watch the video!

Where are you people coming from? Meyer merely spoke clearly and assertively.

the answer to one of andrew meyer's questions can be found in an article written by robert parry,on the 6ih of november,2005..title of article "kerry suspects 2004 election stolen"i found this article at 'the whispering campaign and there was a link to the article in its entirety.

Bush's New World Order is the same thing as Hitler's New Order. The fascists won. The big difference this time around will be the inproved technology to control the masses. They have taken away our rights and they will suppress disent with violence now. This is just the begining. Don't forget about Abu Grabu and the FEMA concentration camps they have all over the country. Amerika's Demokrasy will come home to roost.

And... most of the posters on this thread are like people who go to a movie and shout "Watch out, Bambi! The forest is burning!"

They don't know a show when they see one.

Yes, the guy was acting like an idiot, However, that does not excuse the actions of the police in this matter. Mr. Meyer was acting very animated, agitated, and emotional even BEFORE the police got involved. Why do those cops feel that the best course of action, given his body language, would be putting their hands on him?

His response should not hsve been unexpected. What would it of hurt, instead of grabbing him, they had talked to him for 2 minutes, allowing him to calm down and giving him a chance to leave on his own accord, with a little dignity?

Law enforcement should always remember that their most effective weapon does not reside in a holster, it lies between their ears.

Yeah this guy just wanted to be "youtube famous." I guess the same people that are saying this as well as belittling Ms. Wolf want to be "commondreams comments section famous." If they are not progressive minded, why then not attend to websites that more closely match their points of view? Why, go to websites looking to be offended or looking for opportunities to be hipper-than-thou? Dudes, if this was a prank by the student this means the cops are doubly stupid. First, for showing everybody what brutes they really are and, second, for allowing themselves to be drawn in by this supposed prankster. Any way you slice it, this was an attack on not only this student, but the body politic. If by by body politic we mean the the people and their right to self-rule.

I agree with Ms. Wolf. Like Kent State over 40 years ago, this incident represents a litmus test for the American people. it is either Fight or Flight! From all appearances, the choice, flight, has already been made. Forget about Kerry, he 's an elite tomato can. Rather than see one of their own dismantled like that, the other students could have all placed themselves between the Gestapo wannabes and the student being attacked. They could have also just surrounded the cops and let them know they will be hurting no one today. I know that is challenging authority. But so was the Declaration of Independence challenging established authority. So was the Civil Rights Movement challenging authority. Authority that has turned tyrannical should and can be challenged. None other than Abraham Lincoln stated that:

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."

and

"The people are the masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it"

How about that radical Thomas Jefferson:

"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Whatever their warts these men understood that liberty comes at a price. Often a very steep one. The time, as Ms. Wolf noted, has arrived. Will we as free people individually choose to be the next Crispus Attucks or the next Anne Frank?

einstein:

Your JFK link doesn't show what you say it does.

geoff29:

Thanks for the lead on the excellent Paul Craig Roberts article on CounterPunch.

FutureMe:

What the hell are you talking about? Your "rant" reminds me of Froederick Von Frankenschteen (Gene Wilder) in "Young Frankenstein" chanting "Destiny, Destiny, No Escaping Destiny!" Forgive my incredulity.

Lots of good comments generally, though.

After watching this, and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs
video of the tasering of a UCLA student in 2006, one could say that this is not a "free country". At least at UCLA the students showed more guts than John Kerry.
As far as this being a stunt, Meyer had a very good question to Kerry; being loud and rude at some point becomes morally necessary. And, since when is being loud and rude against the law?

Concerning the young dissident "citizen Meyer", he certainly had the wind knocked out of his barely unfurled sails as he brandished a dangerous weapon (Mr Palast's rather inocuous Armed Madhouse)certainly not the threat to the ship of state or ship of fools depending on how one views modern amerika that the brandishing of Mao's Little Red Book or Das Kapital back in the heyday of disgruntled youth, flower power and Nam by damn would have entailed!

Faced with the two-party or better siamese twins party, mickey mouse donald duck pepsi coke burger pig mousocracy under which amerikans are forced to eek out their futures Mr. Meyer's excitement is all too understandable. If some of the old fogies here consider the young Meyer's passion to be disgruntlement, outrage and sedition then by Jesus let's stoke up the camp furnaces already and get on with the next stage of the rapture rupture Zionist masterplan and get these kids to goosestep into the chambers of redemption in the fascist Homeland camps sprouting around amerika for those with the eyes still to see and the frontal lobe still to discern.

Ken Keasy can be happy as he grooves in his grave that Nurse Ratshit now does housecalls and campus calls when the disadvantaged Afro-amerikan police goons of state are called in to haul away our academic MacMurphys who insist on exhibiting their psychosis in public. "One bad apple, Billy Bibbit and the whole barrel goes rotten!" You can hear Mistress of Electro shock and dominatrix of frontal lobotomy exclaim to the started patients standing meekly by as the "thug" is wrestled to the floor and "medicated".

Ah amerika, you never let me down. When I expect it can't get any worse, bombing and exterminating on 3 continents in how many sub-wars of your great terror war then you up the ante and shoot yourself in the dick once again. Let's do it right and open a damn chain of Abu Ghraibs nationwide goddamn it!

If amerikans are to learn anything from this latest in-your-face brownshirt stormtrooping overkill, let it be that the "democrats" should be beyond your contempt. You are on your own and there is no Mr. Gorbachev anywhere in sight. As Ketchup Kerry (Reagan's vegetable) stood there babbling and blathering as Mr. Winston Smith, the square peg was pushed through the round hole for all to see, the last illusion of your precious democratic freedoms and choice must surely have taken a kick between the legs.

Ketchup Kerry jumped the Swift Boat once again, plain as the tattoo on your darlin's ass and proved to the rest of the world whatever about the sheeple in the land of the blah blah blah and the home of the blah blah blah, that that particular shill and wanna be "commander in chief" of your corporate warring militia mercenaries harvesting the people of Iraq will protect the interests of your elite and abuse your "rights" as long as he is paid to do it so help me Gawd.

So take your prozac, your crack and coke and shut your damn mouth hole because your opinions mean diddley squat in sewer pipe media 'merka! That's what Ketchup was blathering about and if you don't buy it then play The Cuckoo sequence backwards one more time and listen to the meaningless droning of the man skulking in the background you once were naive enough to think might save your sorry asses!

Of course the real tragedy in all of this is not that there are those scum in the student body that supported the violation of Meyer's once "inalienable" rights but that the rest of them, the ones with the brains just didn't have the balls to fight for those long lost rights as the "Jew" in their midst was hauled away to face his unenviable destiny.

If I recall right some person way back once stated "Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" was hung.
Then this country came into being but still manage to keep women as second class citizens, kill off most of the Native Americans ,enslave and consider humans that were Black inferior,then during WWII put most Americans of Japanese decent into camps,and now are going after Spanish speaking people that come here and will work for any amount of money.

This student in Florida getting shocked might be an improvement. We all know he would have never even got inside of 99 percent of most Republican meetings.
You see people this USA that you always thought was Fair to All only had its day in the sun a very short while and then even not for all Americans. That time was around the almost end of the Kennedy Administration annd ended with Ronald Reagan and his taking the protection by the government again away from most of the people and giving it back to only the rich.

By the way our Press corp ? Has anyone checked to see if we can find much of anything over this incident several days afterward?
How many politicians have even made comments on what happen from whatever party?

I believe somebody on here called for a Revolt?
I doubt we would be much better even if we had that revolt and won. Why ? Well just for a minute asked yourself these few questions .
Do I consider any property or monies to only belong to you and your family? Or if you and your family were invited to a party at a unknown neighbors house several blocks away Would You Go ? Or How About Would You Throw Such A Party?

You see that historical figuure from way back actually got his LIBERTY from the hanging. Because All that are dead are equal.

As I have been saying (and being excoriated by passifists for saying) is it's time for a revolution.

Waiting patiently for Pierre Tristam's piece on this subject. Here's some earlier articles concerning use of tasers on campus.

"A Cop Shoots a 16-Year-Old In His Classroom: Taser Brutality in Our Schools"
http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/cn020707.htm

"Tales of Misconduct: Taser Madness: Flagler Legal"
http://pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/bb021707-1.htm

Tools for lunatics used upon children, very civilised.

I believe it was Jefferson that said "that if a democracy was to stay free a revolution every 25 years was necessary".
We are way overdue!

I think I can safely say, while most of you are perhaps sleeping (geography/time), that this is the most ridiculous and insane thread
I have ever read here on CD. It might also be the most intelligent and interesting thread I have read.

What I find most amazing is that there is a debate/are differing views about this at all!

"Reasonable"? Anyone who thinks it is reasonable to do what the rent-a-cops - or any cops - did needs some deep healing work, yet you think Mr. Meyer's behavior was not reasonable? Gimme a break

The G.B.Shaw quote earlier is GREAT, thanks to the poster (tired, late). We need artists/rebels/intellectuals/non-conformists THE MOST. It IS true. Anyone who is complaining because they disapprove (who are you to approve or disapprove?) of Mr. Meyer's 'style' or 'behavior' is essentially clueless about how life progresses. Were it not for people who misbehave, throughout history, Mr. Meyer's critics would still be foraging and grunting about. It's the 'spirit' of the thing.

What I hope comes the hardest, is that there is a team of the MOST intelligent, experienced, and influential attorneys in the Universe who take up Mr. Meyer's cause, pro bono, and sue the 'Holy Jesus' out of anybody and everybody as far up the chain as they can. May this be a seminal event!

As for Kerry, sue him too!

This says it all:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/meye-s20.shtml

Anybody ever wonder about the psychological state of returning troops, pushed to the brink and indoctrinated into dehumanizing the enemy?
What kind of force could they be conditioned for regarding domestic "terrorists"?