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TechnoratiToday's news shows a recognizable shock moment in the annals of a closing society. A very ordinary-looking American student -- Andrew Meyer, 21, at the University of Florida - was tasered by police when he asked a question of Senator John Kerry about the impeachment of President George Bush. His arms were pinned and as he tried to keep speaking he was shocked -- in spite of begging not to be hurt. A stunning piece of footage but unfortunately, historically, a very familiar and even tactical moment.
It is an iconic turning point and it will be remembered as the moment at which America either fought back or yielded. This violence against a student is different from violence against protesters in the anti-war movement of 30 years ago because of the power the president has now to imprison innocent U.S. citizens for months in isolation. And because, as I have explained elsewhere, we are not now in a situation in which 'the pendulum' can easily swing back. That taser was directed at the body of a young man, but it is we ourselves, and our Constitution, who received the full force of the shock.
There is a chapter in my new book, The End of America, entitled "Recast Criticism as 'Espionage' and Dissent as 'Treason,'" that conveys why this moment is the horrific harbinger it is. I argue that strategists using historical models to close down an open society start by using force on 'undesirables,' 'aliens,' 'enemies of the state,' and those considered by mainstream civil society to be untouchable; in other times they were, of course, Jews, Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals. Then, once society has been acculturated to that use of force, the 'blurring of the line' begins and the parameters of criminalized speech are extended -- the definition of 'terrorist' expanded -- and the use of force begins to be deployed in HIGHLY VISIBLE, STRATEGIC and VISUALLY SHOCKING WAYS against people that others see and identify with as ordinary citizens. The first 'torture cellars' used by the SA, in Germany between 1931 and 1933 -- even before the National Socialists gained control of the state, during the years when Germany was still a parliamentary democracy -- were informal and widely publicized in the mainstream media. Few German citizens objected because those abused there were seen as 'other' -- even though the abuse was technically illegal. But then, after this escalation of the use of force was accepted by the population, students, journalists, opposition leaders, and clergy were similarly abused during their own arrests. Within six months dissent was stilled in Germany.
What is the lesson for us from this and from other closing societies, some of them democracies? You can have a working Congress or Parliament; newspapers; human rights groups; even elections; but when ordinary people start to be hurt by the state for speaking out, dissent closes quickly and the shock chills opposition very, very fast. Once that happens, democracy has been so weakened that major tactical and strategic incursions -- greater violations of democratic process -- are far more likely. If there is dissent about the vote in Florida in this next presidential election -- and the police are tasering voters' rights groups -- we will still have an election.
What we will not have is liberty.
We have to understand what time it is. When the state starts to hurt people for asking questions, we can no longer operate on the leisurely time of a strong democracy -- the 'Oh gosh how awful!' kind of time. It is time to take to the streets. It is time to confront those committing crimes against the Constitution. The window has now dropped several precipitous inches and once it is closed there is no opening it without great and sorrowful upheaval.
We also need to understand from history that the temptation at a moment like this to grow more quiet -- to stay out of the line of fire -- is the wrong choice by far. History shows categorically that if citizens do not stand up now to confront and imprison the abusers, things do not get safer -- they get much more dangerous for ordinary people, activist or not.
I was scared when I wrote The End of America -- personally scared because the blueprint I was tracing in the summer of 2006 showed clearly that protesters and critics would start to be hurt within the year. When I told a dear friend that I was scared, he gently reminded me of the history I was reading. He asked, will things be scarier for you and the ones you love if you speak up now -- or if you are silent?
We don't just need to speak up now. We need to act. It is time to rebel in the name of the flag and the founders.
Naomi Wolf is the author of The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, Chelsea Green Publishing, Sept 2007. She is also a co-founder of the American Freedom Campaign, a grassroots and grasstops democracy movement.
© 2007 Huffington Post
193 Comments so far
Show AllIt was an abomination that Kerry did nothing to quell the situation. I'm not surprised. Don't forget this event! http://www.dont-taze-me-bro.com
I saw the tasering incident on national news. While I have not read any of Ms. Klein's books, I agree with a good deal of what she says. However, I have to ask the following question of Ms. Klein: Why didn't you ask for an explanation of the silence from Senator Kerry during the tasering incident? You seem to concentrate more on the "cosmic justice" dimension of the incident rather than the very practical aspect of a very necessary and appropriate reaction from Sen. Kerry, which should have been: "Officers, please allow him to speak,and do not harm him." Any comment from you, Ms. Klein? Hmmm?
I agree with Ms. Wolf in saying that this nation's government is slowly closing the window on innocent U.S. citizens. So soon we will be completely unable of voicing out against such acts as this UF student being tasered. However the idea of a rebellion seems to be a bit extreme; yes I realize that writing, emailing or questioning these individuals who create such fiascoes may not and in many cases will not have much of an effect on them. But nonetheless how can it be possible to persuade a group large enough to take a stand and make a difference when they take situations as outrageous as this one turned out and turn it into this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkd_m4ivmc
From what I have witnessed by this video and those responding to it, the UF scenario is a laughing matter to some. How can you possibly hope to make a difference with that?
I saw Wolfe on the Colbert Report the other night. I don't disagree that the US has become fascist country. But the premise of Wolfe's book is that there are 10 steps that a democracy goes through to become a fascist state is so simplistic.
Gee 10 steps, really? God, how easy it is to write a book like that. "Okay here are 10 things Bush has done and let me just categorize these into 10 general steps to fascism."
How about doing away with corporatism in general. We could begin with the publishing corporations that push this tripe on us.
Furthermore, during the interview she became very animated about how great the US was to have 200 years of democracy. Really? That would be the democracy with slavery, that committed genocide against native Americans, that overthrew countless democratically elected goverments around the world? That wonderful history of US democracy?
It isn't just Bush that is the problem. It is you, Wolfe, striving for approval from publishing corporations. The medium is the message.
I have said eleswhere, if you are threatened with tasering, you should state clearly that you have a heart condition or asthma, even if you don't. Everyone should.
Let me just also point out that all of the videos out there showing cops or people being tasered in controlled situations is not the same as being tasered when your adrenaline and heart rate are off the charts as you are being tackled by 5 cops. If you have heart problems, asthma, you are in serious trouble. I see it being used more and more for submission and fear. Intimidation. It is funny that Naomi Kleins book is subtitled, "shock therapy"! It is even coming back into vogue in the PSYCHIATRIC community and we know they have our best interest in mind too. Why wouldn't they? Just because the pharmaceuticals have ties to chemical companies who have ties to the military. What, me worry?
Someone was saying just the other day how tasers were supposed to be used to replace "deadly force" but the number of fatal cop shootings has not decreased with their implementation. Instead, what you have now is a device that is being used and abused in almost any context that it can. Kind of like, "Look what we got boys! A new toy!" It is portrayed in the media as just that, a toy, even though it kills people. You have to kill alot of people before something is no longer a toy. I haven't come up with an exact number yet, but none of this should surprise anyone when the BOMBING OF BAGHDAD is treated like a fireworks display. I wonder if it was done at night to play to the cameras?
I also have a beef with the girl who sits in for Olbermann and a woman from Air America, Rachel Maddow, who I used to respect having a little get together on MSNBC to chat about how Andrew is not the guy we want to rally behind. It was a stunt, they say, as if they were the harbingers of good taste . I get nervous when those on the left, and I know they have struggled to get where they are, and I applaud them, but just because they are on the inside of the movement, and lord knows, it ain't doin that well to begin with, doen't give them the right to say what incidents of civil rights violations we should support. I know they want a big juicy steak to bite into, but I am not sure they are gonna get one.I don't know if our gov't is going to give us our Tiananmen Square moment. It seems more like we are being divided and pushed into corners, i.e.-free speech zones. I think if you downplay the abuses that occurred while uplaying the fact that the kid is a trouble maker it is doing the society a disservice and actually confuses people at home who would otherwise support the cause of PEACE and JUSTICE. They wont know what is real and what is theater and just tune out. We must stand up, even for Rush Limbaugh, for his right to exercise free speech. We can boo him out of the theater if we want, but we must not sit by idly while he is being manhandled by the cops for merely asking questions or stating unpleasant facts. And if we agree we would do it for a Rush or Anne Coldsore then why not for Andrew. After all, who was he disturbing, certainly not the audience, not John Kerry. Guess what, he pissed off the police, the secret service, whoever, and we are gonna stand for that. I am not saying to rally around the guy, but there are much larger truths here that are not getting their fare due.
PEACE OUT!
Pointing out an irony, I think if this was an impassioned person of color, then he might get more support. What do you think?
I think that we should just have a ban on acknowledging trolls. Maybe they will just go away. I think I am starting to get savvy enough to spot them. I think it is important to address some of the issues they bring up but maybe not to address them directly would make them go away.
I think this incident by itself does not spell Police State, but taken together with all the other incidents of just tasering, this is just ominous. What is even more ominous is the reaction of the media and the so called people of higher education who think that this is not ominous and threatening stuff.
I have worked in poor communities for quite awhile now and know that these implementations of police power expansion is no joke. Whether it is under the guise of the DRUG WAR in the poorer par of the cities, or under the guise of TERRORISM in the wealthy parts, the methods and results are the same. INTIMIDATION AND FORCE to maintain a state of INSECURITY that allows the those in power to control the ebb and flow of not just information and capital but now more and more, people. "It's still people!"
The only way that your guard would be down in situations like this is if you trust those in power to protect you and look out for your well being. Really, even after they tell you to F-off for centuries, you are still gonna look the other way? Seriously? Your ancestors worked their butt off to get you here, I can't believe all of you brownshirts are blue-bloods, and all you can do is yawn at the government taking away your rights.
So, as long as you don't protest our gov't, you are ok. The gov't under the guise of SECURITY, are intimidating and harassing protesters, inciting violence and putting women and children at risk. They are testing our will power as they did in the sixties. They have taken over the media and town commons and the propaganda is way more sophisticated and pervasive. It is harder to wake up now, to detach from this beautiful machine that dominates all of our lives.
I just have to quote Mario Savio again, "There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"
Isn't Naomi Wolf the same stupid bitch who accused Harold Bloom of sexual harassing her at Yale in 1983...it only took her 21 years to make up the story. Thanks for the book plug Ms. Wolf but I think I'll stick to Shakespeare...
BTW, anyone else notice only one paragraph out of the entire column is dedicated to the actual subject/headline?
And... I love it when you psudonymous weenies compare Andrew Meyer to Martin Luther King!
There's Andrew Meyer screaming like a little bitch and resisting arrest all the way out of the auditorium, and you compare him to one of the bravest men and one of the greatest non-violent leaders in the history of the world!
How stupid can you possibly be? I'm sure some of you are about to show me.
"neomunk" and many other pseudonymous posters are "bravely" criticizing UF students because they didn't "mob" the police!
What a bunch of weenies!
You're too chickenshit to post under your real names, and you're criticizing other people for not committing a felony!
Likewise with your criticism of John Kerry. It took more courage for him to go out on the Mekong River for one minute than you pseudonyms have ever had in your whole lives.
I post under my own name on progressive sites all over the net, and if you weren't too stupid to use Google, you could find out what I think of George W. Bush instead of assuming that I'm a Republican because I didn't buy into Andrew Meyer's Youtube exploit.
As I also said in every other post, I think the police over-reacted, and yet one idiot after another accuses me of endorsing police brutality from Rodney King to Bishop Tutu!
Harharharharharhar!!!!
The prankster Andrew Meyer made all of you look like idiots, and I'm laughing right along with him!
India's "State of Emergency" (1975-1977) provides a frightening template for what could easily happen in the next year in our own Homeland. Public unrest led to forced sterilisation (a practice that was legal in the U.S. for the first half of the 20th century) and the suspension of elections and civil liberties.
Some other State actions done in the name of the Public Good:
-Wanton detention of innocent people by police without charge or notification of families.
-Abuse and torture of detainees and political prisoners.
-Use of public and private media institutions, like the national television network Doordarshan, for propaganda.
-Arbitrary destruction of the slum and low-income housing in the Turkmen Gate and Jama Masjid area of old Delhi.
Don't let this happen!
Why do people stand by while a couple of state sponsored thugs terrorize someone for exercising free speech? Yeah, they have guns, tazers, and other weapons, but does that prevent anyone from using a chair or other common implement as a weapon or simply overpowering the gangsters with sheer numbers? Sheepish mentality keeps common sense at bay and criminals in power. If you witness someone being beaten, do the decent thing and incapacitate their attackers. Until people have the bravery to stand up for each other, these pigs will continue to drive this country and the rest of the world into submission for their own profit. Oh yeah, don't get caught (hence incapacitation).
People. Wake from your slumber.
If you want liberty, justice and peace, you have to stand up and say so.
No one is coming to save you or do it for you.
Peaceful protest. Everyone. Everywhere.
Do not stop until you have it.
You will succeed if you stand together. There are enough of you.
Democracy.
It is your life. Take it back.
Pigs will be pigs. No surprise there.
The hippies were/are right!
the most important thing about this whole incident was a room full of students who sat there and did fuck all!
To ets and all others of that ilk who think that democracy should only involve polite discussion, I have some words for you which were written a long time ago by someone a lot wiser than you.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us
in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down
and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon
you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
Samuel Adams
Thank you Mr. Meyer for "provoking" us. We need you and others like you to wake us up before it's too late.
I watched George Orwell's prophecy '1984' yesterday... it is WAY TOO CLOSE for ANY COMFORT. NOW IS THE TIME. Less Talk. More Action.
This world is truly weighing on myself. Some of the cops are just big, dumb, scary bullies.
I have M.S. and when I am panicked or too emotional I am UNABLE to make my body do what I require.
"STAND UP, GET OUT OF THE CAR, OR YOU"LL BE TASED!!!" may send me into paralysis. Then I'd just be tased- maybe to death. Do not laugh...It has happened before in the America! I believe. A wheelchair bound man who could not stand and exit his car was tased repeatedly. Recently a blind/deaf woman who was "ignoring" the Cops shouts, demands, and orders died last week from the tasing she endured from these sadistic bullies.
I am so disappointed in all the other students who just sat there and allowed it to happen. I would not and could not have stayed in my seat, and my husband at the very least, would have thrown a chair. This is crazy.
When I first watched the video, I tried to give the other students the benefit of the doubt:
- how are they helping, in what ways, and what are they thinking, what's going on in their heads and hearts while their friend, their brother is being repressed, violated and abused? -
The only positive I could think regarding the audience was: Some are recording. That is helpful.
But then one seems to have betrayed him. When Andrew was attacked, a girl grabbed his camera. "I am a friend" she said. She went on MSNBC with her footage of the incident, and some negative comments about her "friend" Andrew that made us wonder.
Then she left Andrew's camera with someone she will not name to Andrew or his close friends. Cops? MSNBC?
Some students giggled.. I would like to think it from nervousness. Some clapped. It breaks all our hearts!
Andrew Meyer's may be feeling like he made a stand and no one stood up for him!
In fact, he is hiding under his influential parents roof, afraid to pursue this any further and probably feeling pretty abandoned.
see here for more videos on how Andrew"s doing, a cop tasing a woman for his "error", and on how it's going with ' Jena 6':
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/us
Blessings of Comfort and Acceptance to All! PiTrinam
http://pitrinam.stumbleupon.com
Holy-moly! Another good one...
And Pancho - great piece of radical slam!
Both of your analyses are so correct!
I believe the REVOLUTION IS POSSIBLE!
Practice thinking for yourself, defining your best interests, fighting for them, and showing that way to your friends, family and neighbors.
Just because there is no CD article proclaiming that the Revolution Is Here, doesn't mean it is not- because it is a revolution of our individual beliefs and reactions...
So when you see cops overstepping their bounds, any reaction of fear or violence, or any rights being trampled on- do something local. March up to your local police station, city hall or neighborhood association and voice your opinion.
You have to put up a "SHOW YOUR PAPERS" sign! This is a war of attitude- one against the "corporations are good" and "don't question authority"
DO NOT EVER BELIEVE ANY POST HERE THAT SAYS THE REVOLUTION IS IMPOSSIBLE
I believe that we are already at a critical turning point- that more people are being critical of the status quo. Just listen to them (and take off your political blinders)
I don't expect everyone to take Action, but I do think people can change their expectations. Case in point- how many people have flip-flopped on Iraq?
It's not that bad, Marcus. 60% to 70% of the U.S. population is quite liberal. The neocon era is ending. They killed a lot of people, but not as many as they did in the 1930s and 40s. Gradually, the fascist cause is losing steam. Mean minds always wind up in dead-ends they can't get out of. Kind minds will revive America and we will send the war criminals to the Hague; we have an affirmative obligation to do so.
jacob freeze says-"I think the police over-reacted, but I also think Naomi Wolf's article is shameless bullshit, and anyone who can't recognize Meyer as a prankster who paid for a huge YouTube success with a little discomfort is too square to boogie."
Please, I am a boogie master, you sound like the boogie man. Anyone who knows about movement knows that the movements of the young Andrew were no flailing around or resisting arrest. While not a small fry he is a kid with a book in one hand and the other held by the police. With a kid as skinny as him, you would really notice the jerking of his body as he was yanking away. The cops did not try to restrain him, in fact one cop basically picks him up and throws him towards the door. They were escorting him out the door, manhandling him and he wasn't taking being manhandled for no good reason.
I could go on and about your ignorance, but what is the point, right. Just looks like the trolls are getting a little more sophisticated in their brutishness and obtuseness. I know none of us in the know really care what you think. You either join in with the peace movement or not. It's your life. I type pretty fast so this is only five minutes of my time..whatever.
We need to bring this movement, the peace and justice movement that is, into the cafes, into the campus's, onto the street and drown out these belligerent and insipid voices of hate and ignorance and all around bad news that are conspiring to bring the whole thing down. They need to see what great minds and deep souls we are. We need to meet these people on the other side of the peace and justice movement and see what they are all about.
I think if we all ventured out into the real world we would find that all that really exist are like minded individuals who really care about the world and leaving it a decent place for future generations. We need to not only dominate the market of positive ideas, by dominate I mean, of course, peace and justice seem the only way to go, the only way we can sustain life. We need to bring the discourse back into the public arena. When people see a bunch of cats on the street boogieing with their coffees, talking up a storm, asking people questions, with or without cameras, getting harassed by the cops or whatever, well then....what do you think the people at home will think.
Maybe something like," Hey, I drink coffee! Wait a minute! You can't hang out downtown and chat anymore, or laugh anymore, or ask people questions about stuff? WTF! That is crazy. I am gonna go get a double latte right now mofos!" We don't need everyone to belong to an organization and have everything be so official all the time. We need people to see us engaging in life. Out there and passionate. And dancing. And singing. Passionately doing anything I guess. We need to be that change. We need to make it obvious to everyone who the good guys are. And these weiners who instigate and deny facts and whatever will be forced to either change, basically grow up and face the fact that we all have to exist in a peaceful world, or we all perish or step up. And I would love to see some putz like freeze dry or whatever his face is come up with some jargon or rigamorale and accuse ME of not boogieing. I will tap dance and scat cat all over that paltry nonsense. We all should.
holymoly: Thank you!
Oh, and the fascist fucks already know who I am (I make it a point to trigger their phone tapping mechanisms with keywords and then reminding them that the last batch of fascists who made a power grab like this ended up hanging) and they know that to come at me with tasers would be a bad idea.
See, I'm one of those liberals who both cherishes AND practices the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment. You see, I don't break the law very often, and never seriously, so I'm not going to allow police to make me fearful. If I'm being arrested for doing something wrong, I'll go peacefully and politely, if I'm arrested for posting on the internet, not so much.
Oh, AND I have a fetish for video recording police, for some reason that agitates them but also (usually) pacifies them.
Genaman, if memory serves me correctly, it was Patrick Henry who said "give me liberty or give me death." He wasn't hanged. Nathan Hale said: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." He was hanged.
Neomonk, I love your posts. Of course, you sound so agitated, I am afraid we may have to send the taser squad for you--we're looking for your IP address even now, and should be able to run that down shortly.
I have to agree in a way with Jacob Freeze. All of these troublemakers like Meyer who are "pranksters" probably just deserve what they get. Gypsies and homosexuals and mentally retarded folk were probably better off, too, when Hitler put them out of their misery. I mean, these people were just sucking up air the rest of us could be using--eating beans and rice and such that the conservatives of the world assure us there are not enough to go around. I mean, in order to have a good orderly society, sometimes you have to clear out the rabble, the undesirables, the pranksters. Of course, in Shakespeare's day, it was the pranksters who were the only ones allowed to the tell the truth. The court jester could tweak the nose of the king and tell him he was an asshole while the rest of his subjects trembled in fear. Well, the jester got zapped for his part, even though he was speaking truth to power, and the others just trembled in fear and remained in their self-imposed, I'don-t-want-to-make-no-waves bubble.
The police are BRUTAL. Those that are not are the exception, not the norm. Just think, as one poster said above, many of the Iraqi veterans will come back all jack-shit crazy from killing folks and being shot at and not knowing who the enemy is--they will be given preference for hiring on police departments. They do give preference to honorably discharged veterans, you know.
Because police are so brutal and have little knowledge or respect for the Bill of Rights, is the reason I am against nanny laws--like seatbelt laws, etc., it just gives vicious, ignorant cops more reasons to pull you over: "I thought you were smoking with a kid in the car." They also pull you over if you make eye contact with them--I learned that lesson the hard way. I spoke with a young black man who had the same thing happen to him. He told me: "I made the mistake of making eye contact with the guy and I was crossing a railroad track and his car was crossing in the other direction." The cop was white, He spun his car around and went back after the uppity black kid, and he wrote the kid a ticket for not having his seatbelt "fastened properly." The kid said: "he told me, you know I've got to give you a ticket for something, don't you?" Of course, they both knew what it was, if you look a cop in the eye, you are not being properly submissive. You are asserting that you are a human being with rights. If you drive an old car, you are more likely to be pulled over by the cops as well.
A couple of years ago, the county sheriff's office put up a roadblock in front of my house. I live on a fairly busy road in the sticks so lots of working-class people travel to their wage-slave jobs by my house. The line of cars stretched for miles as the cops made them "show their papers." I asked the cops what they were doing (lucky I wan't tasered then and there) and they said they were checking for licenses, insurance proof, etc. I told them I thought that was terrible, holding up all those people, making them show their papers. Why don't you go to the wealthy part of town and set up your roadblock? I asked. My son said something similar and the cop ordered him back into our house. My son said, "you don't tell me what to do on my own damn property." My son and I immediately made huge signs that said "SHOW YOUR PAPERS" and walked up and down the line of cars, telling the people to call the Sheriff and complain as he was an ELECTED official, providing the sheriff's number. The cops were so mad at us. I saw them write one ticket for some poor slob-- he was apparently driving without insurance, and they held up people for ages for this one ticket. I find the whole idea of a roadblock (unless you're looking for a murderer) a repugnant abuse of police powers. The whole scene reminded me of an old German war movie--with the SS in Romania or somewhere. I also called the Sheriff and wrote a letter of protest. They haven't set up any more roadblocks in front of my house lately. A couple of years ago, I sat on a jury where a Black kid was shot by some southern cops. The kid had dissed them earlier in the evening on a domestic call. He had said "fuck you" to them. They hunted him down later that night, several hours later, one cop even calling the other off of a separate beat he had gone to and they filled the kid and his car full of bullets. The kid drove around them to escape. He had no weapon, but the police claimed that they thought he did. After he got out of the hospital, they tried him for attempted murder with a car as a weapon. The kid was found not-guilty on that account--it was obvious he was just trying to get away from them--he was as some on this site would say "resisting arrest" although I would call it "running for your life." His mother was suing for an unlawful shooting. We had an old lady on the jury who knitted all the time, a soccer-mom, and a white young redneck guy. They refused to find the cops guilty of an unlawful shooting (which it obviously was in my book). Soccer-mom said: "well, would you say fuck you, to a cop?" I answered: "I don't think so, but if I did I wouldn't expect to be shot for it. If their pride can't take a "fuck you" they certainly don't need to carry a gun and a badge." I continued, "you are bringing soccer-mom values to bear on an incident that happened in the ghetto--where "fuck-you?" is said as often as "damn you" is in the sticks. Soccer-mom got all agitated and screamed: "don't call me names (soccer-mom). I asked what she would do about that and she said, "tell the judge." "Ohh, I'm scared." I replied. Little old knitting lady said: "cops protect us from people lke this." She thought big black boy who says "fuck you" is probably just aching to rape old 80 year old woman with knitting. White red neck guy said: cops don't shoot except for a reason." This was just to give the kid's mother money for an unlawful shooting from the city. It was not to put the cops in jail--which, in my opinion is where they should have been.
So, you see folks, fear and middle-class "be polite and submissive to authority" notions are the biggest threats to our freedoms and our lives. Nay, commies never were such a threat to our democracy, our Constitution, and our Bill of Rights. But then again, maybe Black kid and folks who drive old cars are just part of the rabble, part of the pranksters. that fat cops with tasers and guns protect the middle class from. Kind of like a bunch of townspeople in the old west hiring thugs to protect them because they can't or won't protect themselves. Ever seen that one?
Another explanation for the pro-cop posts is that a lot of people are so miserable in their own lives that they enjoy seeings others treated cruelly. It makes them feel superior. Why do people watch the TV show COPS, for example. I mean, you have these brutal cops knocking down doors in poor neighborhoods, with dirty laundry piled up in the apartments, children in diapers crying to high heavens, and cops manhandling their parents. I say when they knock down the doors in the wealthy neighborhoods, I'll watch cops--until then, I don't need to see one more miserable person subjected to that kind of crap. If you enjoy watching COPS, you might ask yourself why????
There is a quote that contains a lot of truth: there is no situation so dismal that a cop can't make it worse. For this reason, many people are reluctant to call cops, even when, theoretically,they ought to.
I don't think the people can be rallied. The rot is too deep. That is why I find the mindless subservience displayed on this board so unsettling. If 1/3 of the country is too TV drugged and apathetic to care, and 1/3 are actually cheering the jackboots, what's to become of the rest of us? I'd urge you to kill your TV, but it's too late. The Titanic All Star Band may as well strike up a requiem at this point. Farewell America, we hardly knew thee.
There certainly are a number of bods on this site that think the poleese or campus security did the right thing, well I sure would not want to go sailing with them. Sheep comes to mind, non violence may in the long run win out but not against the outright thugs in power in this country. Next time such a things happens students get off your collective asses and mob the cops or security, it is your freedom of speech they are removing. You have to fight for such things.
I preach revolution but don't expect to see one, things are too comfortable. Maybe after another depression perhaps, like the one in the wings?
The guys rights were violated by the authorities.
The audience did not oppose the assault.
I agree with neomunk it was a room full of budding quislings, so fearful that they would sell their own to the SS.
The peace lover's of the world whipped their nazi asses in my parents time. Looks like we will have to do it again in mine. shit.
Everyone should PLEASE keep the duscussion to the matter at hand and quit chasing the red herrings thrown into this discussion???
1. Whether Mayer was impolite, loud or awkward, ineloquent
(he largely was) is also not the issue.
It is a red herring.
2. Whether Mayer should have been arrested for his disorderly
conduct at the hands of teh police is not the issue.
It is a red herring.
3. The misuse of tasers, while a serious issue, is a separate
issue. It is a classic red herring.
4. Whether Mayer resisted arrest (it looks like he did)
requiring, the police to use additional force, is also
not the issue. The relavant violation of Mayer's free
speech rights had already occurred BEFORE this incident,
therefore this incident is imaterial to the discussion.
Remember, time, at the non-quantum level, is unidirctional.
This is a red herring everyone seems to have fallen for.
THE ISSUE is the use of the physical force on part of the police, to forcibly silence him for merely excercising his right of to nonviolent, nontreatening speeech. PERIOD. Understand?
'Interesting that all these "Freedom of Speech" posters so vehemently attack anyone with a different point of view.'
LOL! Good one--in other words no diversity in opinion must be free speech?
Likely the responses are from those who automatically absorbed the framing soundbites as the consensus view and now feel they must defend their idiocy.
This is like the justification cops use for beating African-American men (for which they are predictably never held accountable)as "armed and dangerous". That excuse can be used anywhere, anytime.
After the tasering incident, the student protests were large, swift and vigorous--just as with the UCLA tasering last November. You can find video of the protests alongside the taser incident pieces by searching YouTube for "taser."
Amnesty International says that 152 people have died with tasering a direct or contributing cause since 2001, and the numbers are growing each year. Obviously the grownups should be protesting, too.
"A very ordinary-looking American student..." Must've been wearing earth tones.
What's so surprising about a tasering at the University of Flarduh? Flarduh under Jeb Bush became a complete Stalinist Police State.
The other students should've rushed the cops and tasered them to death.
whitewatersally, if florida is the cream of the crop we need to shoot the goddamn cow. I live among these inbred, ignorant fools and the majority think he should have been tasered longer! Perhaps you live in a more "liberal" area of Florida than I do, but here, GW rules, Jeb's a saint and liberals should be hung up in a tree along with all the Black people...
you all might be getting tasered sooner than you think....read the money article here: www.telegraph.co.uk
How about a National Taser Registration, with a protest consisting of 1,000s of volunteers getting individually tasered on youtube, then crying in pain and condeming the violence and revealing the tourture. People would watch it cause it's at first like a football in the groin, but ad nausem and with the right commentary, I believe people would get the point and recall tasers from their local police departments.
And TO THE POINT, if you are supposed to defend at the top of your voice someone who is opposing you at the top of theirs, his motives are not in question. We don't say that we would fight for a KKK member's motives to say what they say, we fight for the PRINCIPLE that anyone can say anything!
Couple this great desire for freedom with a giant police force whose aim increases towards restriction.
SO... go to your local city or county budget and please post here how much you spend on "Law & Order", and show how it has increased severely. AND TELL US ALL HOW EVERYONE'S ATTITUDES ARE CHANGING TO COMPLIANCE AND VENGENCE!!!
These small incidents (as opposed to wars, etc) are where YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, by talking to your neighbors and getting them to see that their initial reactions don't really support their constitutional beliefs, and that force and repression should not be the first response to anything.
i dont think it matters if andrew meyers was looking for his 15 minutes of fame.i do not believe he expected to absorb 50,ooo volts.it seems that alot of you have missed the most important factor.that tasering is torture,and that regardless of motive it has brought to the fore front,a very serious domestic threat.if you check the facts,you would find out,that altho the police dept.have tried to find other places to lay the blame,for the deaths of ordinary citizens by taser...in florida alone,a few hundred have died after being tasered.this policy of torturing the unruly was instated while jeb bush was governor,tasers were distibuted to law enforcement.in this way,they will soften us up,for even worse things to come...if we do not do something NOW (thank you,andrew meyer)people will start to think of torture as'normal'all over the u.s.a.
I think some people confuse freedom TO with freedom FROM.
Like the freedom TO speak, or the freedom FROM someone's petulance.
Like the freedom TO choose you own path, or the freedom FROM making hard decisions in life.
I know which I prefer.
We haven't Tasered anyone, though, have we Watson? Is this difference too elementary for you to grasp?
If the cops really, really disagreed with Mr. Meyers nodody would care. But when he is publicly assaulted, and Mind Slaves like you bleat excuses and poorly thought out remarks on message boards, then we have entered a truly frightening time in our nations' history.To me the unapologetic brutality is horrifying, but people like you TERRIFY me. You're what Orwell referred to as 'a sallower of slogans.' He didn't care for your kind very much. Smart guy, that Orwell.
They hate us for our freedoms!
Um... "freedom of speech" allows you to voice your opinions and beliefs without restraint, as long as your actions are not infringing on the rights of others.
So, yes it's ok to tout this freedom and call you an asshole at the same time. So, no, it's not that interesting
-Brutus
Interesting that all these "Freedom of Speech" posters so vehemently attack anyone with a different point of view.
Et tu, Brutus?
BTW, alot of people who frequent this forum may ave noticed that I'm dripping vitrol like I never have before.
To you all, I apologize.
I must offer my defense though. These "people" who think this incident was cute, justified, no-big-deal, or funny are literally destroying any chance the people in this country have for being free. These are the same type of people that called the stazi on their neighbors because they thought you might have a banned book or something.
They are so fearful of life that they would have us all (including them, but they don't realize it) locked up in order to protect themselves from some imaginary boogeyman.
In my opinion it's better to make them timid now and force them to question themselves than to have to shoot them later, when they are on the boot side of an attempted face-stomping.
Jacob Freeze: Accusing me of semi-literacy is cute.
Re-read my post, brownshirt, I took issues with what you said directly. I even quoted you.
My post was 100% accurate, I didn't read anything into what you said other than the necessary logical steps to make what you said make any sense (even from such a misguided point of view as yours) whatsoever.
I'll even make it simple for your simple little mind.
You said directly that he caused this event to take place in order to get put on youtube, right? You said that he did it in the spirit of taking some pain in exchange for fame, right? Can you POSSIBLY spin that to not mean the response he received was justified, nay, EXPECTED?!?
Of course you can't, because that's EXACTLY what you meant. Oh, and that's what I said, isn't it?
All this talk about being 'hip' and being 'square'. Are you fucking kidding me? This is a joke to you isn't it.
Oh, and I hate to burst your bubble there Mr Hip, I can out think you, my logic is stronger than yours ON IT'S OWN (that is to say without my help) and I can shoot down any little piece of shit (like you've offered so far) comment you want to throw out.
Your attempt at being cool, hip, edgy, whatever you want to thik of yourself as with the little cracks about square heads and semi-literacy failed you miserably. You don't look cool, just like another turd in a brown shirt.
This says it all:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/meye-s20.shtml
Anybody ever wonder about the psychological state of returning troops, pushed to the brink and indoctrinated into dehumanizing the enemy?
What kind of force could they be conditioned for regarding domestic "terrorists"?
I think I can safely say, while most of you are perhaps sleeping (geography/time), that this is the most ridiculous and insane thread
I have ever read here on CD. It might also be the most intelligent and interesting thread I have read.
What I find most amazing is that there is a debate/are differing views about this at all!
"Reasonable"? Anyone who thinks it is reasonable to do what the rent-a-cops - or any cops - did needs some deep healing work, yet you think Mr. Meyer's behavior was not reasonable? Gimme a break
The G.B.Shaw quote earlier is GREAT, thanks to the poster (tired, late). We need artists/rebels/intellectuals/non-conformists THE MOST. It IS true. Anyone who is complaining because they disapprove (who are you to approve or disapprove?) of Mr. Meyer's 'style' or 'behavior' is essentially clueless about how life progresses. Were it not for people who misbehave, throughout history, Mr. Meyer's critics would still be foraging and grunting about. It's the 'spirit' of the thing.
What I hope comes the hardest, is that there is a team of the MOST intelligent, experienced, and influential attorneys in the Universe who take up Mr. Meyer's cause, pro bono, and sue the 'Holy Jesus' out of anybody and everybody as far up the chain as they can. May this be a seminal event!
As for Kerry, sue him too!
I believe it was Jefferson that said "that if a democracy was to stay free a revolution every 25 years was necessary".
We are way overdue!
Waiting patiently for Pierre Tristam's piece on this subject. Here's some earlier articles concerning use of tasers on campus.
"A Cop Shoots a 16-Year-Old In His Classroom: Taser Brutality in Our Schools"
http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/cn020707.htm
"Tales of Misconduct: Taser Madness: Flagler Legal"
http://pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/bb021707-1.htm
Tools for lunatics used upon children, very civilised.
As I have been saying (and being excoriated by passifists for saying) is it's time for a revolution.
If I recall right some person way back once stated "Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" was hung.
Then this country came into being but still manage to keep women as second class citizens, kill off most of the Native Americans ,enslave and consider humans that were Black inferior,then during WWII put most Americans of Japanese decent into camps,and now are going after Spanish speaking people that come here and will work for any amount of money.
This student in Florida getting shocked might be an improvement. We all know he would have never even got inside of 99 percent of most Republican meetings.
You see people this USA that you always thought was Fair to All only had its day in the sun a very short while and then even not for all Americans. That time was around the almost end of the Kennedy Administration annd ended with Ronald Reagan and his taking the protection by the government again away from most of the people and giving it back to only the rich.
By the way our Press corp ? Has anyone checked to see if we can find much of anything over this incident several days afterward?
How many politicians have even made comments on what happen from whatever party?
I believe somebody on here called for a Revolt?
I doubt we would be much better even if we had that revolt and won. Why ? Well just for a minute asked yourself these few questions .
Do I consider any property or monies to only belong to you and your family? Or if you and your family were invited to a party at a unknown neighbors house several blocks away Would You Go ? Or How About Would You Throw Such A Party?
You see that historical figuure from way back actually got his LIBERTY from the hanging. Because All that are dead are equal.
Concerning the young dissident "citizen Meyer", he certainly had the wind knocked out of his barely unfurled sails as he brandished a dangerous weapon (Mr Palast's rather inocuous Armed Madhouse)certainly not the threat to the ship of state or ship of fools depending on how one views modern amerika that the brandishing of Mao's Little Red Book or Das Kapital back in the heyday of disgruntled youth, flower power and Nam by damn would have entailed!
Faced with the two-party or better siamese twins party, mickey mouse donald duck pepsi coke burger pig mousocracy under which amerikans are forced to eek out their futures Mr. Meyer's excitement is all too understandable. If some of the old fogies here consider the young Meyer's passion to be disgruntlement, outrage and sedition then by Jesus let's stoke up the camp furnaces already and get on with the next stage of the rapture rupture Zionist masterplan and get these kids to goosestep into the chambers of redemption in the fascist Homeland camps sprouting around amerika for those with the eyes still to see and the frontal lobe still to discern.
Ken Keasy can be happy as he grooves in his grave that Nurse Ratshit now does housecalls and campus calls when the disadvantaged Afro-amerikan police goons of state are called in to haul away our academic MacMurphys who insist on exhibiting their psychosis in public. "One bad apple, Billy Bibbit and the whole barrel goes rotten!" You can hear Mistress of Electro shock and dominatrix of frontal lobotomy exclaim to the started patients standing meekly by as the "thug" is wrestled to the floor and "medicated".
Ah amerika, you never let me down. When I expect it can't get any worse, bombing and exterminating on 3 continents in how many sub-wars of your great terror war then you up the ante and shoot yourself in the dick once again. Let's do it right and open a damn chain of Abu Ghraibs nationwide goddamn it!
If amerikans are to learn anything from this latest in-your-face brownshirt stormtrooping overkill, let it be that the "democrats" should be beyond your contempt. You are on your own and there is no Mr. Gorbachev anywhere in sight. As Ketchup Kerry (Reagan's vegetable) stood there babbling and blathering as Mr. Winston Smith, the square peg was pushed through the round hole for all to see, the last illusion of your precious democratic freedoms and choice must surely have taken a kick between the legs.
Ketchup Kerry jumped the Swift Boat once again, plain as the tattoo on your darlin's ass and proved to the rest of the world whatever about the sheeple in the land of the blah blah blah and the home of the blah blah blah, that that particular shill and wanna be "commander in chief" of your corporate warring militia mercenaries harvesting the people of Iraq will protect the interests of your elite and abuse your "rights" as long as he is paid to do it so help me Gawd.
So take your prozac, your crack and coke and shut your damn mouth hole because your opinions mean diddley squat in sewer pipe media 'merka! That's what Ketchup was blathering about and if you don't buy it then play The Cuckoo sequence backwards one more time and listen to the meaningless droning of the man skulking in the background you once were naive enough to think might save your sorry asses!
Of course the real tragedy in all of this is not that there are those scum in the student body that supported the violation of Meyer's once "inalienable" rights but that the rest of them, the ones with the brains just didn't have the balls to fight for those long lost rights as the "Jew" in their midst was hauled away to face his unenviable destiny.
einstein:
Your JFK link doesn't show what you say it does.
geoff29:
Thanks for the lead on the excellent Paul Craig Roberts article on CounterPunch.
FutureMe:
What the hell are you talking about? Your "rant" reminds me of Froederick Von Frankenschteen (Gene Wilder) in "Young Frankenstein" chanting "Destiny, Destiny, No Escaping Destiny!" Forgive my incredulity.
Lots of good comments generally, though.
After watching this, and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs
video of the tasering of a UCLA student in 2006, one could say that this is not a "free country". At least at UCLA the students showed more guts than John Kerry.
As far as this being a stunt, Meyer had a very good question to Kerry; being loud and rude at some point becomes morally necessary. And, since when is being loud and rude against the law?
Yeah this guy just wanted to be "youtube famous." I guess the same people that are saying this as well as belittling Ms. Wolf want to be "commondreams comments section famous." If they are not progressive minded, why then not attend to websites that more closely match their points of view? Why, go to websites looking to be offended or looking for opportunities to be hipper-than-thou? Dudes, if this was a prank by the student this means the cops are doubly stupid. First, for showing everybody what brutes they really are and, second, for allowing themselves to be drawn in by this supposed prankster. Any way you slice it, this was an attack on not only this student, but the body politic. If by by body politic we mean the the people and their right to self-rule.
I agree with Ms. Wolf. Like Kent State over 40 years ago, this incident represents a litmus test for the American people. it is either Fight or Flight! From all appearances, the choice, flight, has already been made. Forget about Kerry, he 's an elite tomato can. Rather than see one of their own dismantled like that, the other students could have all placed themselves between the Gestapo wannabes and the student being attacked. They could have also just surrounded the cops and let them know they will be hurting no one today. I know that is challenging authority. But so was the Declaration of Independence challenging established authority. So was the Civil Rights Movement challenging authority. Authority that has turned tyrannical should and can be challenged. None other than Abraham Lincoln stated that:
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
and
"The people are the masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it"
How about that radical Thomas Jefferson:
"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Whatever their warts these men understood that liberty comes at a price. Often a very steep one. The time, as Ms. Wolf noted, has arrived. Will we as free people individually choose to be the next Crispus Attucks or the next Anne Frank?
Yes, the guy was acting like an idiot, However, that does not excuse the actions of the police in this matter. Mr. Meyer was acting very animated, agitated, and emotional even BEFORE the police got involved. Why do those cops feel that the best course of action, given his body language, would be putting their hands on him?
His response should not hsve been unexpected. What would it of hurt, instead of grabbing him, they had talked to him for 2 minutes, allowing him to calm down and giving him a chance to leave on his own accord, with a little dignity?
Law enforcement should always remember that their most effective weapon does not reside in a holster, it lies between their ears.
And... most of the posters on this thread are like people who go to a movie and shout "Watch out, Bambi! The forest is burning!"
They don't know a show when they see one.
Bush's New World Order is the same thing as Hitler's New Order. The fascists won. The big difference this time around will be the inproved technology to control the masses. They have taken away our rights and they will suppress disent with violence now. This is just the begining. Don't forget about Abu Grabu and the FEMA concentration camps they have all over the country. Amerika's Demokrasy will come home to roost.
the answer to one of andrew meyer's questions can be found in an article written by robert parry,on the 6ih of november,2005..title of article "kerry suspects 2004 election stolen"i found this article at 'the whispering campaign and there was a link to the article in its entirety.
Andrew Meyer was NOT rude and NOT intentionally provocative. Watch the video!
Where are you people coming from? Meyer merely spoke clearly and assertively.
I didn't get far into reading the comments before seeing several accusing the student of being "provocative" and of inappropriate behavior.
All I saw in the videos was questions asked assertively. I assume that many people who are posting feel that the appropriate behavior, when asking questions of a public official, is a grovelling and apologetic one.
Since when is it okay to arrest someone for not grovelling enough? Since when is it right for police to try to cut off a questioner, because they don't like his questions?
And what does the student's history of making prankish videos have to do with the incident? That's not illegal either.
Apparently there are a few people posting here who think that no one should be allowed to ask tough questions, to speak in assertive tones, or to have an expectation that their right to freedom of speech will be respected.
cathreese:
I'm not trying to be rude or dismissive, but I believe your ideas about anything like either the Spanish Civil War or the French Revolution are seriously misplaced.
Technology is the factor you're not counting in. Neither the French or the Spanish had UAVs, cluster bombs, armored personnel carriers, night visions, low altitude radar, digital imaging with realtime satellite feeds, helicopters with chainguns or stealth bombers.
They didn't have a 500-channels-of-the-same-stereotypes zombification-on-tap mass media machine comperable to what exists today. Disinformation is powerful.
They didn't have pain inducing rayguns:
http://tinyurl.com/3bmlod
They didn't have biological, chemical or nuclear weapons. It's the last two I fear most, especially the nuclear weapons. I most certainly DO think that the people in power would use them (more readily in fact) against their own citizens if it looked like we really WERE going to win. In fact, I have no doubt of it.
The second American Civil War will be the most brutal conflict ever fought, or it will be the quickest and easiest suppression of a populous ever, one of the two. I think the odds of it falling anywhere between those two extremes is remote, and growing fainter by the day as the fascists entrench themselves deeper into the governing system.
Thank you, Siouxrose, for your thoughtful, calming and eloquent discourse....I admire your contributions to CD. BMA/Texas
Neomunk and many other semi-literate square-heads can't read what anyone who disagrees with them actually writes, and have to supply a boatload of "implications" out of their own limited imagination.
I think the police over-reacted, but I also think Naomi Wolf's article is shameless bullshit, and anyone who can't recognize Meyer as a prankster who paid for a huge YouTube success with a little discomfort is too square to boogie.
The guy has had prankish videos all over YouTube, and now he has another. He made sure it was all on video, and did what he had to do to be famous for a few days. John Kerry as always acquitted himself in a stiff but gentlemanly manner, and that's all there was to it.
Naomi Wolf is too tragically unhip to recognize a prank if it bit her on the ass, and likewise with most of the posters on this thread.
How sad that I am now reminded of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
Actually I think in both cases it has a lot to do with the specific people who were hired to be security. It would make sense that a person who likes and wants power would want to work in such a job. Or a person who likes to follow orders. And if that person got a chance to work at a really high profile event, they might be pretty excited about using whatever power they felt they had. Maybe somebody couldn't wait to try out their new stun gun!
Someone in another thread posted this link to Jean Altmeyer's book about the authoritarian personality. I am posting it again here because the book is so good!
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
I do believe that the fact that people went along with the tasering is a bad sign. And there have certainly been a lot more events recently that show that we are losing our freedom of speech. But now I am thinking this is more about a few people who normally feel resentful and powerless getting their chance to "take down" some "punk college kid".
As others have said, the problem here is the issue of escalation -- Andrew Meyer was rude, yes, intentionally provocative, yes, but the police response of TORTURE (let's call tasering what it is) was clearly excessive. I think it's emblematic of how violence as become a first resort throughout our society.
I am not so cynical as some on this board, but I worry that the erosion of liberty in just a few short years combined with growing economic inequality and hardening cultural divisions are putting us on course for a bloodbath within another generation. I don't think it would quite be Nazi Germany, but I do think something like either the Spanish Civil War or the French Revolution (depending on who wins) is looking pretty damn likely. In either case, I feel that as a person of conscience, I may well need to think of what I am willing to die for, as I can't bring myself to think of what I could be willing to kill for, and hope that I never come to that place.
Just wanted to respond to the many arguments that go like this:
"...but I also think we should be very skeptical about Mr. Meyers'motives."
It seems to me that his motives are irrelevant, and while skepticism is a great thing it would probably be better employed with respect to Kerry and the police and the zillions of other empowered scoundrels who are destroying our country. Why is it necessary to help them out by impugning the motives of the few individuals who seems willing to confront them?
Nobody is a saint. Whatever his motives, Meyers has done us all a great service by bringing something important to light.
I am a student affairs administrator at a college in Pennsylvania. It is very common in such Q & A sessions for a student questioner to be nervous, anxious, loud, and obnoxious - especially when he is well aware that he is asking very inconvenient and challenging questions to a very powerful figure. Kerry acknowledged the students question and was engaged in a clumsy dialogue with him. I'd like to know this: Where were the college administrators or faculty who must have been present in that room? Who gave the police the order to confront the student? Where was a college administrator or faculty member when the student was being tasered in the back of the room? Such a person SHOULD have forcefully called off the police and insisted that the student not be tasered. The fact that the people in that auditorium - and the people around the country are 'split' about whether the police acted appropriately is very disturbing. The student and the guest speaker should have been allowed to finish their dialogue and the police should not have acted in the manner they did. If I had been a responsible administrator in that auditorium when this thing went down and I didn't act to protect that student and to allow the dialogue to continue, I would expect to be fired or I would resign in shame. I certainly hope John Kerry speaks out forcefully on behalf of that student and his right to have completed his question and dialogue with Kerry. If Kerry forcefully supports this student (which he absolutely should if he has any character at all) this very unfortunate event may be righted in some way. Anything less than that and this event will be a dark moment far into the future.
Meyer was a bit high strung and slightly strident when asking his questions, but he was within what should have been his Constitutional Rights to ask those questions. The Police were 1) Too quick to take action, and 2) Too forceful when they did. If Meyer had asked his questions a 2nd or 3rd time, or tried to cause a deliberate and innapropriate disturbance AFTER asking his questions, the Police would have been correct in removing him. This was not the case here.
The disturbing thing is, Meyer didn't get a chance to complete the initial questions or hear Kerry's potential responses. I sincerely hope Meyer sues the pants off the Florida Police. I for one am willing to contribute to a Meyer defense fund! I think he has a rock solid case.
Also, John Kerry should have taken charge of the debacle immediately and vehemently. It is apparent from his lack of strength that Kerry may not have been Presidential material after all.
It looks like a lot of the wawas are closed tonight after 12a. For a "technology upgrade." Wonder if that means an upgrade by big brother to get a better view.
I think I will start using cash just in case. I am already being spammed and junkmailed to death. I am so good at ignoring ads and commericals around me-I almost ignore important things too.
Well yes, they do want a subordinate group of sheep they can wind up to buy and use credit. When they join us all(Mexico, Canada and USA) they will issue the bird flu warning and shoot if you leave your house.
Unless you are rich, you will be of no concern to the others. Beggers in the street like a 3rd world country.
Jacob Freeze:
"Nobody disputes that Meyer was already a YouTube prankster. He made sure it was all on video, and traded a few seconds of pain from a taser for a million hits on YouTube.
It's just like all those other YouTube videos where a guy hits himself in the head with a baseball bat, or sets himself on fire, chasing 15 minutes of fame."
You're implying that this man's actions were met with the proper (and thus expected) response.
You equate speaking at a public forum after being called upon and refusing to be polite about atrocity with hiting yourself in the crotch for laughs.
Do you seriously expect anyone to take this shit seriously? Is democracy really just a joke to you?
Perhaps you're right, (I'm feeling generous, don't read this as any kind of agreement) maybe he WAS trying to get some good video of him chewing out Kerry. Do you really think that he knew he would be assaulted with a deadly weapon for the fact? (If you try to say I'm being overdramatic with the term "assault with a deadly weapon" you'll end up looking like even more of a fool as I can readily prove that point) Do you expect that he'd end up with some fat-assed skinhead cop grinning like a fucking 5 year old and pulling the trigger on a taser? (boy, there were alot of video cameras there, many different angles of video)
Only weakling pansies who are afraid of real freedom would expect something like that. Hmmm, you seemed to think that's proper. You're not one of those weakling pansies I'm talking about, are you?
Of course you are, as are all of your other tough talk prick buddies who are so scared of the truth and freedom, and so attached to a (false) us vs them mentality that you're willing to destroy democracy so that your chosen team can 'win' (at your expense, believe it or not) and are left shaking in your boots at something as dangerous as the truth.
Come to think of it, you SHOULD be scared of the truth, it's eventually going to bring your whole little worldview tumbling down, and bad-asses like you are too sensitive for things like that.
wow,i cant believe the insults you bigots are throwing at we the people of florida...contrary to your stereotype notions..the cream of creativity and spiritual evolvment,reside here.the election was stolen in florida by the carpetbagger=jeb bush.we sit on one of the greatest aquifers in the world and that is why we are first(second,since louisiana accidently got it first) on the 'HIT'list of bush.st.augustine,florida where the fannion of an infant nation was FIRST annointed and the blood of huegonots,saints and martyrs ran in the ground and the decendants of geronimo were born.i am appalled at the ignorance and bigotry some of you have blogged here.i think you owe me(and florida) an apology.i was only trying to tell you that the andrew meyer incident was not a set-up/the police were not mindful of the cameras,because they were following the standard procedure for civil disobedience(or resisting arrest),instated as policy in florida,courtesy of jeb bush(his legacy to us)
Suds:
Thank you. You're spelled out the correct answer (at least -I- thought that was the OBVIOUSLY correct answer) in 3 short paragraphs. Kudos.
gabi September 19th, 2007 6:21 pm
just my take … but I see it as a florida repub "set up" to make Dems/kerry look bad
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And gabi, who or what are you? But just tell me if it was a set up then what kept Kerry from