Hi Goose, on the B-52 carrying nukes? Several years ago, our country agreed in a treaty, to never carry nuclear weapons on our bombers again, except in time of war. Something went terribly wrong on that deal, or the DOD would not have had a fit over it when the news leaked out. There is no way those nuclear weapons could have been "accidently" loaded on that B-52H aircraft. IMPOSSIBLE. We likely will never know the truth of the story. It actually could have been a fairly routine transfer, but "we", or the press weren't supposed to know that either.

On DU, this is one good link of several thousand on the issue. Since inhaling just a microscopic speck of DU can cause severe internal medical problems, and thousands of tons have been fired off world wide so far, It should be a very serious issue. It's in the air, everyplace on the planet.

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_howkilling.htm

There is another website link when that page opens that gives more infomation.

I understand that the greatest use of DU in most areas of Iraq and Afganistan is that from the A-10 and AC-130 aircraft Gatling guns and from bunker buster bombs in Iraq and Afganistan. Each 30mm shell is 3.5 pound of DU. Those are not just tipped with DU. Of course it's not just us, 30 other countries now fire DU ammo daily on firing ranges.

You notice the 2,000 pound DU bunker buster bombs are much smaller in size than a 750 pounder WW2 bomb. It's the DU that makes them heavy. When one of those goes off, the temperature of the fire reaches 6,000 degree-f, where normal explosives are in the 600 degree-f range. The result is, a smoke filled cloud of trillions of ionized nano-partilces of radio-active DU,___ blowing in the wind. Don't inhale and no sweat.

This crap has been known and talked about for some time. Here's an article I copied and pasted when I first read it:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2003/05/ma_365_01.html

3 paragraphs from it that present some rather important issues:

"Private military companies, for their part, are focusing much of their manpower on Capitol Hill. Many are staffed with retired military officers who are well connected at the Pentagon -- putting them in a prime position to influence government policy and drive more business to their firms. In one instance, private contractors successfully pressured the government to lift a ban on American companies providing military assistance to Equatorial Guinea, a West African nation accused of brutal human-rights violations. Because they operate with little oversight, using contractors also enables the military to skirt troop limits imposed by Congress and to carry out clandestine operations without committing U.S. troops or attracting public attention. "Private military corporations become a way to distance themselves and create what we used to call 'plausible deniability,'" says Daniel Nelson, a former professor of civil-military relations at the Defense Department's Marshall European Center for Security Studies. "It's disastrous for democracy."

"...Because the Geneva Convention expressly bans the use of mercenaries -- individual soldiers of fortune who fight solely for personal gain -- private military companies are careful to distance themselves from any associations with such hired guns. To emphasize their experience and professionalism, many firms maintain websites brimming with colorful PR material; the industry even funds an advocacy group, the International Peace Operations Association, which portrays military firms as more capable and accountable than the Pentagon. "These companies want to run a professional operation," says the group's director, Doug Brooks. "Their incentive is to make money. How do you make money? You make sure you don't screw up."

"When the companies do screw up, however, their status as private entities often shields them -- and the government -- from public scrutiny. In 2001, an Alabama-based firm called Aviation Development Corp. that provided reconnaissance for the CIA in South America misidentified an errant plane as possibly belonging to cocaine traffickers. Based on the company's information, the Peruvian air force shot down the aircraft, killing a U.S. missionary and her seven-month-old daughter. Afterward, when members of Congress tried to investigate, the State Department and the CIA refused to provide any information, citing privacy concerns. "We can't talk about it," administration officials told Congress, according to a source familiar with the incident. "It's a private entity. Call the company.""

"Hi Goose, on the B-52 carrying nukes? Several years ago, our country agreed in a treaty, to never carry nuclear weapons on our bombers again, except in time of war. "

I checked all our treaties and their obligations do not mention anything of this sort. Do you have a reference? It is publically stated policy, but not a treaty responsibility. I also disagree that they could not have been loaded by accident. You were in the military, you know things like this happen. These missles were due to be de-commissioned and if they being moved, then anything might have happened. That this story came to light is good, but I think it points to bad handling and a need for more security and safeguards wihle they are being de-commissioned rather than some plot.

Plots and conspiracies are the refuge of too many here. Messy and sloppy government are far more likely to produce something than a plot.

"You notice the 2,000 pound DU bunker buster bombs are much smaller in size than a 750 pounder WW2 bomb. It's the DU that makes them heavy. When one of those goes off, the temperature of the fire reaches 6,000 degree-f, where normal explosives are in the 600 degree-f range. The result is, a smoke filled cloud of trillions of ionized nano-partilces of radio-active DU,___ blowing in the wind. Don't inhale and no sweat."

You are not correct Kem, while there is a huge amount of particulate matter created, most by far remains on site. What does move down range falls out very quickly due to weight. It is there in the dust locally where it can be kicked up and inhaled, but really the effects are very localized except when, as you note, they are used in urban areas by AC130s and when vehicles carry dust to other locations. I agree this is an issue and not preventable while DU weapons are used (so they must be banned for normal use), but that does not mean that all Iraq or Kosovo or wherever are no longer habitable. It does mean though that DU weapons should be removed from active use and reserved only for armor on armor combat which has not occured in Iraq in years.

Remember that DU dust is MUCH less radioactive than normal Uranium Oxide which occurs all over the planet and has since forever. If Uranium dust alone were going to kill everything around, then there would be no Navajos or anyone else in the Southwest in the US or people all over the world where Uranium is produced.

"Because the Geneva Convention expressly bans the use of mercenaries — individual soldiers of fortune who fight solely for personal gain — private military companies are careful to distance themselves from any associations with such hired guns."

The GC does NOT ban mercenaries. It only states that they cannot be considered regular combatants and as such are not to be accorded the rights of a combatant.

Article 47.-Mercenaries
1. A mercenary shall not have the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.
2. A mercenary is any person who:

(a) Is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;

(b) Does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;

(c) Is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;

(d) Is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;

(e) Is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and

(f) Has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.

GOOSE!! Oh my gosh, you are badly mis-informed on the subject of ionized DU particles. Read what the British Radiation Biologist, Dr. Busby states about DU. A tiny bit of his findings are in that link I just posted. I have a bit of a problem with Moret, as her credibility is hurt by some of her other wierd beliefs, but on the issue of DU, she has her head screwed on right.

There are hundreds of scientists who state that DU is extrememly deadly and the dust may travel for thousands of miles once airborne. During the First Gulf War, the radiation readings in the UK rose dramatically.

In 1999, NATO warned all of its commanders, that if troops inhaled any DU they would suffer from radiation poisoning and it could cause many types of diseases, including cancer and could also alter their DNA and their children could be born with deformities. The warnings went unheeded and the results are heart breaking.

Comparing the trace ammounts of uranium in nature, which we all inject into our bodies every day, is not the same as inhlaing DU from expended munitions. There is absolutely no comparrison. Ionized DU in the body will emit over 10,000 times the radiation allowed by a chest x-ray and will bombard cells 24/7 until the cells become cancerous. You have a lot of good informatin on ammunition Goose, but your informatin on DU is twenty years behind the recent findings. Sadly, that is because the old info, is one of the first availble on the web, when asking for depleted uranium. There are thousands of pages to read on the subject and I agree with the more recent. Those doctors and scientists have no reason to cover up the error of its use.___ Governments do.

Well, well, well. Imagine that.
The American-installed 'government' of Iraq actually behaving like the duly-elected representatives of a sovereign nation! My lands! Will wonders never cease? 'This may get interesting' indeed! Here comes a showcase in which all the glaring hypocracy of the neocon colonialists may be on display for all the world to see. King George has been carrying on without end about 'nation building' being the point of all the savagery he has incited. Well, exercise of independent sovereignty is one of the critical hallmark of nation-status. If the Maliki government really IS THE government of Iraq, they have all the rights they need to pull Blackwater's plug good and proper and PERMANENT. If they do so, one of the true darlings of the neocons will take it massively in the shorts, big-time connections to Christian zealots, campaign megacontributions and all! Thusly, a major channel for funneling $ from the U.S. Treasury into the outstretched hands of some of the horde of greedy FOB's (Friends of Bush) will be closed. With this alterna-Army removed from play, the impossibility of the real Army's mission will become manifest in the very near future.

Now let's see how sovereign our own personal tyrant is willing for the Iraqi government to be.
(That swoosh you hear is the sound of the Spin Machine starting to pick up RPM's.)

I have no idea if there was any plot involved with the B-52 nuke issue. I do not favor any idea there was a plot. I do know that the nuclear weapons were not accidenly loaded on that aircraft.

That would be as bizzare as to believe, the aircraft was "accidenly" flown by a team of civilians who just happend to be visiting the base and decided to take one for a joy ride.

Disrupt efforts to have a Democracy? What type of a Democracy are you referring to?

There is a false impression, which has been spun by the government, that DU dust stays near the point of the ammo's impact.

It is totally illogical to believe such a thing.

When a DU bomb or projectile burns, the resulting cloud of smoke is filled with billions or in the case of a bunker buster bomb, such as the one named (Big Blu) even trillions of nano-particles of DU isotopes. They are microscopic in size, as small as a millionth of a meter in diameter, weightless.

What happens when you fire up a Bar-B-Q? The resulting smoke rises up into thhe air, carrying minute particles of whatever the fuel may be, paper, wood or charcoal. When a volcano erupts, the ash, which is far heavier than DU particles, may travel around the globe and linger in the atmosphere for weeks. In Iraq there are violent sand storms, the stinging sand travels for many hundreds of miles. Sand is far heavier than particles of deadly DU. DU does get up into the upper atmosphere, and will travel for thousands of miles.

GOOSE, again you are 100% WRONG. Our government signed a non-prolification nuclear treaty with the Soviet Union. We agreed to destroy most of our B-52 bombers, and we had already stopped flying the Chrome Dome missions in the 70s. We also agreed to not fly any bombers with atomic weapons and they no longer sit on full alert loaded with nukes. The only 52s left in the inventory are some H models, with the TF-33 fan jet engines. the 20mm Gatling tail gun on the H models have been removed. The gunners seat and his radar system have been removed. I flew on those out of Wurtsmith AFB in the 60s and am intimently familiar with them and nuclear weapons procedures.

As to "accidently" loading a nuclear weapon? Yes indeed, I spent 23 years in the Air Force and was at one time an inspector for the SAC IG. I spent fourteen of those 23 years stationed on SAC bases and I can assure any, that "accidently" loading a nuclear weapon would be impossible. Nuclear weapons are under strict control at all times. They are NEVER mixed with other weapons in storage.

Nukes also have specific markings that they are nuclear weapons. If removed from a storage locker or bunker, they MUST BE signed for by two seperate individuals who are cleared to sign. They are then escorted by air police to wherever they are moved to. There is a two man policy strictly enforced 24/7. Once loaded on any aircraft, the aricraft would be roped off and two guards posted within the area, __ NO ONE __ who was not on a axcess list could get near the aricraft and never alone, (two man policy). I helped write the book. I won't go on. It would be impossible to "accidently" load a nuclear weapon on a B-52 or any other type of aircraft accidently.

I don't know what your problem with me is Goose, nor do I really care, but you have started it with me on previous occasions for whatever your reasons. You write with intelligence and sound good, perhps to some who would not know the issue. I can tell you this ____ you are un-informed and are writing bull on this string that is as wrong as wrong can be. If doing so in some sick attempt to make me look bad is your strange or sick intent, ___ keep it up, I could care less.

Maliki, al-Sadr and Iran find yet another way to disrupt efforts at democracy in Iraq by thwarting diplomatic activities focused on uniting disparate groups within the country.

GOOSE, The link for the treaty is no longer updated nor does it give every sub-section in detail. Here is a link for the Air Force policies regardng nuclear weapons. It also has a statement from the Air Force that the nukes were not "accidently" loaded on that B-52.

http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2007/09/flying_nuclear_bombs.php

Cruise missiles were not included in the treaty,____ my error on that point.

"Disrupt efforts to have a Democracy? What type of a Democracy are you referring to?"

He's referring to the type of Democracy where if you don't do as the US govt. say you get shot, tortured or imprisoned.

Goose 2.

If you need confirmation re the danger of DU, google the US Army Environmental Policy Unit (AEPI) on :

'No available technology can sugnificantly change the inherent chemical and radiological toxicity of DU. These are the intrinsic proerties of uramium.'

'DU is ... a radioactive waste and therefore, must be deposited in a licensed repository'. Not on a home, base,school, or country near you. No winners, no losers here, every one a victim; see the figures of the inexplicable, deaths, illnesses from 1991 among US troops (and the holocaust amongst Iraqis.)

'Inhaled insoluble oxides stay in the lungs longer and pose a potential cancer risk due to radiation, Ingested DU can pose both a radioactive and toxicity risk ..' (General Accounting Office) GAO/NSIAD-93-90/pp. 17-18.

And on and on. DU was designated a weapon of mass destruction, along with napalm and fuel air bombs, etc., by three UN Sub-Committees - unanimously.

Oh yes, and there is the two and a half billion year 'half life'. As for staying static, it is 'where the wind blows'. The British Ambassador to Kuwait, was handed, after 1991, the poisoned challice of telling the EMir: The good news is that you are liberated, the bad news - broadly, you and future generations are poisoned and genetically compromised.

'It does not appear that Kuwait has addressed the long term management of hazardous and radioactive materials in captured vehicles'. AEPI p 84. Or indeed the dust, which did not stop atthe border - or any border.

Oh and a contingency on an Australian ship, who never set foor in the Gulf in 1991, suffered a high proportion of 'Gulf war sundrome'. Where the wind blows. Of course the compensation issues are gargantuan, so a lot of detraction rubbish is pumped out.

Best, j.

Thank goodness, the Iraqi government has backed off their first demands. They are going to "investigate" the killing of civilians incident, when that has been paid for, ___ Uhhh, I mean completed, Blackwater troops will be allowed to help rebuild Iraq and assist in the endeavours to build a true Democracy. Whew! ____ That was a close call.

JASSIM, thank you for the appropriste comments on the DU subject. It shoud be the most important issue for the entire world's populations.

You know, the "ground up democracy" that General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker talked about; the same kind of democracy we're counting on to change our leaders and our country.

Private mercenary forces are becoming a huge problem for Iraqis and for Americans. How do you think the troops feel when these contractors are making 10x what they do.

For a thorough overview of Blackwater, I highly recommend Blackwater, by Jeremy Skahill.