Behind an Antiwar Ad, a Powerful Liberal Group
There is no mistaking the influence of MoveOn.org, with its 3.2 million members and powerful fund-raising apparatus, within the Democratic Party.
This liberal activist group has come to occupy a prominent seat at the table among the party elite, so much so that Republicans leaped at a chance to hold Democrats and their presidential candidates responsible for MoveOn’s positions after it ran an advertisement attacking the credibility of Gen. David H. Petraeus.
MoveOn, which has raised tens of millions of dollars for Democratic candidates since its inception in 1998, clearly enjoys friendly relations with Democratic Party officials. Its leaders have met several times over the year with Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, to discuss policy and strategy on ending the Iraq war.
MoveOn representatives also take part, as co-founders of a coalition of antiwar groups together under the umbrella Americans Against Escalation in Iraq, in a daily conference call with the Democratic leadership staff on Capitol Hill to coordinate efforts.
Despite conservatives’ efforts to lump together the grass-roots organization and the party and to force individual Democrats to take responsibility for MoveOn’s wordplay on General Petraeus, the top American commander in Iraq, as “General Betray Us” in its advertisement in The New York Times, the relationship between the two is often complicated and, at times, shows visible fractures.
“I think Democrats understand that when we can join forces and work together, it’s very powerful,” said Eli Pariser, executive director of MoveOn Political Action. “And then when we can’t, it’s not fun.”
This month, MoveOn sent an e-mail message to members asking whether it should start organizing potential primary challenges against Democrats who were not tough enough on the war, a move that upset Democratic leaders. The group plans to announce the results of its survey on Monday.
The group also sent a strongly worded warning in the spring to Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill not to capitulate to the White House as they struggled to come up with a strategy after President Bush’s veto of the $124 billion Iraq spending bill that tied the money to a troop withdrawal timetable.
“We felt it was important for Reid and Pelosi to understand, if they were unable to come through to a conclusion that was seen as bold, they were going to lose the faith of a lot of people,” Mr. Pariser said.
With its attention primarily focused on Congress, MoveOn has yet to become vigorously involved in the 2008 presidential race, although its members have been encouraged at points to telephone Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama’s offices to keep them in line on Iraq. Next week, it is beginning an advertising campaign against the Republican candidate Rudolph W. Giuliani in Iowa. Mr. Giuliani took out an advertisement yesterday in The Times attacking the group and Mrs. Clinton.
The group has held two online presidential forums, one on Iraq in April and the other on climate change in July. Mr. Obama, of Illinois, came out on top in a straw poll for offering the best hope for leading the country out of Iraq and John Edwards won on climate change.
Mrs. Clinton, of New York, trailed significantly in both.
“Anybody who has 3.2 million people in an organization and can mobilize and raise resources and things, they are going to have a big impact,” said Joe Trippi, a senior adviser to Mr. Edwards.
MoveOn has shown a willingness to depart from party orthodoxy on campaigns. Last year, despite party leaders’ entreaties, it took an active role in aiding the antiwar candidacy of Ned Lamont, who was trying to unseat Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, then a Democrat supporting the war effort.
Mr. Lamont won the Democratic primary. Mr. Lieberman ran as an independent in the general election and kept his seat.
“It’s good for the Democrats to have an engaged and vocal left,” said Jenny Backus, a Democratic strategist in Washington. “It’s something the Republicans have benefited from in the last couple campaign cycles. It allows Democrats to look moderate. A vocal left keeps the party from drifting toward triangulation.”
Democratic leaders in Congress and presidential campaigns said they winced when they saw the MoveOn advertisement. While they may have agreed with its overall point, that the troop buildup has not worked, several Democratic officials said privately that the advertisement had been counterproductive.
They said MoveOn had handed Republicans a fresh talking point to criticize Democrats and turn the focus from Iraq in a critical week in the war debate.
Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, said on MSNBC that the advertisement was “simply over the top, and I think it’s inappropriate, period.”
Ms. Pelosi said on “Good Morning America” on ABC that she “would have preferred that they not do such an ad.”
Republicans have called on Democratic Congressional leaders and presidential candidates to disavow the advertisement, but they have largely declined.
Several officials said even though the text of in the advertisement might be over the top, public sentiment shared a frustration over the war. Officials said they did not want to play into the Republican Party’s hands or anger MoveOn members.
Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
These blows to our Constitution is “over the top”! And these guys are worried about a little word play?
“Its a dog eat dog world out there, and from where I sit, there ain’t enough damn dogs!”
“simply over the top, and I think it’s inappropriate, period.”
Kerry, a bottom feeder, of course, would think so, period.
“would have preferred that they not do such an ad.”
Pelosi, do-nothing Dem, also appropriate.
Why wasn’t Eli Pariser interviewed for this story? What was MoveOn’s response to the Republican attack and the Democrats who ran away from the ad? This business of always treating military men with fawning respect is getting irritating. Why are they more trustworthy than ordinary mortals? Petraeus did betray us. He’s Bush’s flunky and that’s why he was hand picked. His report was written in the White House. So when he comes on pretending to be the independent voice of the military giving us the straight dope, he betrays us. So do the news organizations who report him that way.
When moveon.org starts standing behind a true Progressive like Dennis Kucinich instead of Clinton and Obama, I’ll pay attention to them. Otherwise, they are just another CENTRIST non-leaning-left site of biz-as-uzual.
HEAR HEAR !!
Not bad! The greatest destructive force the world has ever seen since the death of the dinosaurs is frighten by a Flying Toaster screensaver…I’ll have to send them some money. ;>
The media version of the ‘center’ has moved so far to the Right, Nixon would be considered a flaming commie at this point. Calling Move-On the left is like calling John Edwards a radical.
Just as a reality check, note that the majority of Americans polled on a number of issue hold opinions that are described as ‘far left’ and ‘politically impossible’ by the MSM:
A majority of Americans wants the troops out of Iraq asap, considers corporations to be too politically influential, wants a universal health care program and a living (not ‘minimum’) wage for full-time workers.
So, how do we convince the MSM and Congress to catch up with us, when they can’t even handle MoveOn?
peachmcd…
“We The People” no longer have a voice at all! Kucinich wants to give us one and the media have taken HIS away!
In Iowa, he was the ONLY Democratic candidate NOT invited to two events there! I don’t know what keeps him glued to the Democrat Party?! Given the current situation and the “other choices”, I truly believe that if he went Independent his numbers would SOAR!!!
It’s beginning to look like I’ll be staying home next November. I won’t go to the polls for ANYONE who doesn’t speak for/to ME! And D.K. is the only one.
To me it just further reaffirms how complicit Democrats are with Republicans in continuing the illegal occupation of Iraq.
Moveon.org is boldly speaking some truth to power. The truth scares the sh_t out of those in power, because if it is widely known, they would quickly be thrown out of power.
The white house and capital hill are two places that are infested with organized criminals.
They have the blood of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people on their filthy, nasty hands.
I share your anxiety and frustration celbrity.
Kucinich seems to be the only candidate with any heart-felt commitment to progressive ideals.
This is not the occasion for timidity in the face of such a massive propaganda onslaught to convince the public that we are making progress in Iraq and must stay the course.
MoveOn is the perfect counterpoint to the right wing trash machine, ala Lee Atwater and Karl Rove not to mention the wing nuts at the American Spectator.
These swiftboaters go about slinging mud at people and leave their republican candidates to remain above the fray.
In my opinion at least MoveOn gets their facts straight, we the American people have been betrayed and the president is trying to hide behind a general with a lot of medals to justify his plan and his war.
And now the insane half of the country the half that actually voted for Bush in the last election will castigate Kucinich for visiting the Middle East, in particular Syria.
So far I have seen no major media coverage of his daring diplomatic journey. He is doing what the administration should be doing having serious talks with Iraq’s neighbors.
Fox and friends will try to paint Kucinich as a Jane Fonda wacko liberal commie, cavorting with the enemy.
Celebrity is right we need someone like DENNIS KUCINICH to bring back some sanity to this nation.
More RoveOn.org than MoveOn.org sometimes?
Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, said on MSNBC that the advertisement was “simply over the top, and I think it’s inappropriate, period.”
Had Kerry carried out a plan to get the US of A out of Iraq and end the war, perhaps he might have had the moral high ground to speak. It is again a diversion to a childish word play that is inappropriate rather than War Crimes and genocide in Iraq.
Next time Senator a better response to any such question ought to address the real issue: Death and destruction; illegal war; crimes against humanity; and what you are doing to stop the killing in Iraq.
Some Republicans have labeled those who have challenged or criticized General Petraeous’s testimony as despicable, which may have a measure of validity in a few cases.
However, the degree of slander contained in any remarks made against General Petraeous are eclipsed by the unprecedented vicious character assassinations against Senator Max Cleland, a decorated triple amputee Viet Vet with an outstanding senate record. They were in responce to Mr Cleland’s sponsorship of an investigation into the causes of 9/11 which was opposed by Bush, who used his status to avoid real military service by joining a champagne unit at our expense. They displayed his picture with Osama Bin Laden and some even said he should have not stepped on the mine.
The most disturbing aspect of that horrific event is that it worked. Senator Cleland was unseated by a person who avoided military service and was compatable to Bush’s secretive policeies.
Why are these critics so vocal now–but so silent then?
If, by some bizarre twist in the fabric of reality, Kucinich were to be nominated and win he wouldn’t live six months.
If there are elections in 08 I’ll write him in with Gravel as VP. I don’t think I’ll get a chance to do that though.
MoveOn is just another cog in the machine. It could be more but it isn’t.
America has become a death machine. All the money worshippers are engaged in some Danse Macabre and Free Market Capitalism is the orchestra conducted by Maestro Libertarianism. They are playing a waltz called the Human Extinction.
Americans alone can’t stop this. Most of the nations of the world had to unite to end the last fascist threat of such magnitude. This will take similar effort.
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/unsanam2
It has to start somewhere. Please. It’s worth a try.
Moveon’s ad seems intended to draw wayward progressives back into the capitalist fold. Progressives are now expected to fall back in line behind Hillary so that the imperial steamroller may continue on into Iran.
Instead of that, progressives should double the decibels for impeachment, to restore the rule of law ASAP, and vote real progressives in the 2008 elections.
MoveOn’s whole purpose for being is to promote the power of the Democratic party. It is not a progressive group. It is not even a legitimate grassroots organization. And it’s “members” are not members in the sense of actually having made any sort of investment or commitment or endorsement of MoveOn’s activities. Hell, if you go to the MoveOn website and answer one of their surveys, like it or not, you’re a “member,” which is to say they have put you on their mailing list.
MoveOn is, first and foremost an echochamber for Nancy Pelosi with some money to throw behind that echoes. Any suggestion that they are pressuring Pelosi or Reed to do something they don’t want to do is not more legitimate than the notion that Pelosi really wanted to end funding for the occupation of Iraq when she cut a deal with the White House and the Republicans in Congress to extend that funding, then voted against it when she knew their were enough votes to carry the measure. MoveOn was with Pelosi throughout the whole scam (which is to say they gave every reassurance that she and the Democrats would drive a hard bargain to stop the endless occupation) until the day before they vote when they finally told their members to make urgent calls to their representatives to stop the deal that had already been arranged in Washington. It’s a fraud and a farce and a terrible waste of money and good intentions of many well meaning liberals and progressives who haven’t a clue what a ride they are being taken for. John Stauber has done a very good job of documenting this. Look it up if you are interested.
Meanwhile, MoveOn won’t even give its “members” a way to vote in an organizational survey about whether they support the impeachment of Bush or Cheney. Imagine that. A so-called leading grassroots organization that seems about as willing as Fox News (or Pelosi) to discuss one of the most powerful and effective responses to the deadly lawlessness of the current administration!
MoveOn is a miserable fraud that serves to maintain the corrupt status quo. Whatever potential they once had to be a progressive force has long since evaporated as their tiny leadership crew got a taste for being connected to power and money and lost any legitimate connection to true democracy, let alone progressive politics. I won’t give ‘em a dime or a minute of my time.
Its an ad campaign for the brainless to latch onto so baby thinkers won’t fall far from “control”. Rune, you are correct!
People finally think Oil has something to do with the war, NOW?!
“And then when we can’t, it’s not fun.”
When the hell did moveon.org morph into a radical anti-war group ?!!
What a joke. This same group couldnt wait to ‘move on’ after the 2003 bombing of baghdad coz, you know, they already bombed them and we should fu~!@#ing ‘move on’ !!!
They have been nothing but a front for democrats all along and have managed to persuade a lot of innocent progressives along the way.
Its time they actually did what they preach … move on.
You should ask our friend Eli what his stand on the Israeli-Palestinian issue is ?? Moveon as usual does everything it can to sweep the issue under the carpet and utters platitudes ‘we would like to see peace blah blah bleat bleat’ ….
“When moveon.org starts standing behind a true Progressive like Dennis Kucinich ”
Sorry … Kucinich is not a true Progressive. If he is he wouldnt be sleeping with the Dems. You can either call yourself a Democrat or a Progressive. You cant be both at the same time in the current context of politics.
I supported MoveOn in ‘04, gave money, signed petitions. I haven’t done much with them since, and they have quit sending me anything. I have become disillusioned with them in the past year or so. They have gotten a taste of the inside, and have sold out the left for a seat at the table with the insiders. They no longer represent an insurgent movement to take over the Democratic Party. They have been co-opted by the establishment. From here on in I only support individual candidates, not party organizations or groups affiliated with them. Dennis gets my money, Cindy Sheehan gets my money, anyone on the left willing to run against Steny Hoyer gets my money. Money talks, … well, you know the rest.
Aren’t the DLC-dems right, we just need to live with this big pile of bushCrap like they do?
Primaries. Yeah, they could have a real purpose.
Just heard a report on a CBS radio affiliate.
gyptian…
“Sorry … Kucinich is not a true Progressive. If he is he wouldnt be sleeping with the Dems. You can either call yourself a Democrat or a Progressive. You cant be both at the same time in the current context of politics.”
You are throwing the baby out with the bath water with that incorrect statement. Your party anger is blurring your vision–as are many on this site. Without D.K. working from inside mainstream politics, given the “current context of politics”, what would be left?
By the way, Eisenhower, in the “context of politics” from those days, could have been considered “Progressive”. Why don’t you and other posters wake up?! What are the other “REAL” choices in the “current context of politics”?
Clinton? Obama? Edwards? A wasted “statemment” vote on a third party candidate that nobody will EVER know you made?!
If you and the other posters don’t latch on to D.K. FOR WHAT HE STANDS FOR–and STOP seeking reasons NOT to support him–you are going to end up with one of the choices I listed above. PERIOD!
http://www.dennis4president.com/home/
gyptian:
That’s extremely counter-productive logic, probably the sort of stuff a Republican or DLC operative would be churning out. A true progressive movement, for it to gain any traction whatsoever, must be willing to go into the belly of the beast at some point. I’d like to see progressives take over the Republicrats in general. If I saw them sneaking into the Republicans, and their voting records were 90%+ in agreement with progressive stances, why insult them?
It’s a multi-pronged strategy. Fight both within, and without.
Now if you can point to serious legislative gaffe’s of Kucinich’s that’s another matter.
I do agree with the commentators here about MoveOn, however. They’ve not generated much interest from me. My inclination is more toward progressive populism and alternatives to capitalism than it is to finding a more “sustainable capitalism”, which seems to be the impetus behind MoveOn and some of its undoubtedly wealthy backers.
They are just a bunch of capitalists
An illegal invasion that kills and maims millions of innocents based on complete lies for, as Greenspan confirms, OIL, now that’s really over the top. I would have preferred if Cheneybush and the loyalbushieDems wouldn’t have done such a thing. And I would prefer if someone would do something really, really, over the top, like arrest the Domestic Enemies of our Constitution still hold-up in our White House, or filing perjury charges against Rummy, Powell, Rice, Gonzo, Cheney, Loonitary Decider, McConnell, Bremer, Rice again, Rove, and all the other little lying minions cashing in on their anti-American reign.
I would prefer that.
The country is more in line with MoveOn.org than with Kerry, Clinton, and most of the Demos in Congress and the Senate, who are still trying to gain the sparse few remaining religious right’s vote. Maybe they ought to run under the Republican ticket next time.
They better listen up folks, because MoveOn.org has it right! They do have the healthy pulse on America (or should I say the pulse on healthy America.)
Until the majority in this country are able to put the puzzle together and realize that globalists are running the show and that many members from both political parties are the puppeteers to this elitist scam, we will never see someone like Dennis Kucinich in the White House; and therfore, we will never see any significant shifts in policy from the empire-builders who are destroying this country (and others) along with the “American Dream”.
celebrity:
“If you and the other posters don’t latch on to D.K. FOR WHAT HE STANDS FOR–and STOP seeking reasons NOT to support him–you are going to end up with one of the choices I listed above. PERIOD!”
In other words keel over and throw your principles out with the bathwater. Absurd .. is what comes to mind. It is precisely this mindset amongst kucinich backers that i find repugnant. you are seriously deluded if you think a vote for kucinich is not WASTED !!
paul:
“A true progressive movement, for it to gain any traction whatsoever, must be willing to go into the belly of the beast at some point”
Sorry Paul i did. I crawled into the belly of the beast for many years and i found so much crap and bile and kucinich supporters mixed up in all this mess that i decided to crawl back out !!
A true Progressive movement must be willing to confront the beast at all times and not cave in just because they smell ‘power’ ! The end can never justify the means. It may sound ‘polemical’ but trying to convince me that somehow sleeping with the Dems and Repubs just so that when he gets to power he will change things is exactly the kind of argument dictators like Musharraf use to garner popular support.
Make no mistake, moveon.org is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I am tired of the same old, same old lesser evil.
Gail:
“…we will never see someone like Dennis Kucinich in the White House…”
WAY TO PUT THAT NEGATIVE THINKING OUT THERE! DAMN, WE NEED MORE OF THAT TO CONTINUE TO STAY IN THE TOILET! THANK YOU!!!!
gyptian:
Whatever…. Vote Hillary, Obama, or Edwards. One of them are BOUND TO WIN with your kind of thinking. Any other vote WILL BE WASTED under your kind of thinking. Appears you need to “win” no matter the cost.
It AIN’T a perfect world. Why not try and change it by going with the best offered?
Is it any surprise that the American people are just as disgusted with congress as they are with the Bush regime? Pelosi and company are still running toward the center–but there is no center anymore. They think that by being “moderate” they can appease the Bush regime, but Bush isn’t interested in compromise. The neocons see no reason to compromise–after all, they believe that they are on a mission from God. The dumbocrats are counting on victory next November beased on the self-destruction of the republicans. What they don’t see is that they are going down with them. They are setting themselves up for another 1968, when liberal and progressive voters just stayed home rather than vote for one of two pro-war candidates.
celebrity:
Before this boils down to another meaningless exchange lets be clear … based on what i said above, if you take the time to read, whoever i choose (if i do !!) will probably never win and dont make the assumption its a friggin democrat !
“Meanwhile, MoveOn won’t even give its ‘members’ a way to vote in an organizational survey about whether they support the impeachment of Bush or Cheney.”
Well, they did, actually, then ignored the results. Last I checked, the word “impeachment” isn’t even to be found on the web page.
Think of it–an organization of 3.5 million members that won’t use its considerable voice to bring Bush and Cheney to justice and stop the war. If Moveon.org, Pelosi and Conyers had worked in concert, I think we would have had action long ago.
Because this hasn’t happened, each is complicit in the death and injury of tens of thousands of people, and in the further destabilization of not only Iraq, but also the countries wich have borne the weight of at least 2.2 million refugees who have been forced to leave their homeland.
Perhaps Palister’s not a war criminal, technically or legally speaking, but if morality, ethics, and just-plain politics is a measure, then in my book he sure comes close.
So while I agree that Moveon.org’s ad is bold and accurate, I must say that Gen. Petraeus is not the only betrayer. So is Palister and, by extension, Moveon.org.
Admiral William Fallon considers Petraeus “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and that Petraeus hopes to run for President.
As seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lz-PxpPGXo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edailykos%2Ecom%2Fstory%2F2007%2F9%2F11%2F205522%2F090
Moveon rocks!
One thing is sure… ANY vote for anyone except the Democratic Party’s candidate is a vote for the continuation of this administration’s/PNAC’s?/Neocon’s adgenda… Don’t forget the Nader-effect in 2000. Do you forget that the RNC was an enthusiastic supporter of the Nader campaign? They new any progressive-leaning third-party candidate was good for the GOP. This is NOT a time for idealistic voting. It is time to REPLACE anyone who is going to continue this administration’s policies…
I have not voted “for” someone in years… I find myself voting “against” what I am sure I do not want. Sad, but until the system changes, that is the way it is… and I am not going to risk my vote by idealistically diluting its effectiveness.
Simply being able to say you “put up a good fight” or that you “cast a vote for REAL change” is not enough… In this case V. Lombardi was right… “Winning is the ONLY thing that counts”.
“This month, MoveOn sent an e-mail message to members asking whether it should start organizing potential primary challenges against Democrats who were not tough enough on the war, a move that upset Democratic leaders. The group plans to announce the results of its survey on Monday.”
But we are to believe in the great Liberal Conspiracy against family values (like killing people who believe differently than you)? I think the item below tells all. Let’s not forget that it was the NY Times who hired Judith Miller (long known as a Republican Party Operative) who was later jailed for not revealing Karl Rove and Dick Cheney as her sole sources outside of Chalabi for beating the drums of war into Iraq. The Ny Times was this administrations war cheerleader. Who wants to trust this? Idiots only; that’s who.
Beware of the following;
Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
Unless you see the appropriate disclaimer of;
The New York Times cannot be trusted past being a propaganda outlet for the ruling junta which has hijacked America!!
Your government is illegally occupying the White House - has been for 7 years now
but you still get a paycheck so I guess its OK that Afghans and Iraqi’s are dying by the hundreds each day. What are you willing to do about it? Or are you a moral coward and like getting shit fed to you each day
Hey Mr. John Kerry,
You call an advertisement against the occupation of Iraq “inappropriate.” Okay.
Now, when are you going to call the 1,000,000 or so Iraqi civilian deaths “over the top” or inappropriate?” When are you going to call George Bush a mass murderer and war criminal, and when are you going to call on Nancy Pelosi to stop supporting the slaughter?
Move over moveon.org: just another machinery to keep the status quo ( one party with 2 wings system) alive
Paul Bramscher in an above post said in response to gytian (who doesn’t get it) that. “It’s a multi-pronged strategy. Fight both within, and without.”
That is what the Progressive Democrats of America are doing: a long term strategy of working inside the Democrastic Party to build its progressive wing; and working with those outside the Party to help put pressure on the Party from without.
It is the most sensible plan for long term systemic change. Starting a new party isn’t easy. Let’s reshape the one we have now and counter the corporate dems and the DLC. As far as being true to the progressive vision, PDA did not fold like the group this thread is about. PDA stands on the platform of immediate withdrawal and hasn’t budged, while some have kow-towed and waffled to the centrist and DLC Dems. PDA doesn’t have anywhere near the funds of a Move-on, but it has a plan, a platform, and true progressives working for change. Join them and starting building a chapter in your congressional district. PDA is looking for organizers in every CD.
If we abandon all this fake progressive organizations and the Democrapppers, we will have real changes soon.
Good luck with a long term strategy of working inside the Democrap Party.
That may work if the life expectancy is 200 years.
Rune …
I’m a MEMBER of MoveOn and an active one, as in ACTIVIST. I’m physically disabled, and I STILL INVEST time, energy, action and play an active part in the group’s policymaking. You have more mouth than you have brains. Ever consider some INVESTIGATION prior to your CONTEMPT?
You’re right. MoveOn’s shakers are too cosy with the Dem leadership. I believe they HAVE been seduced by too much proximity to power. I think it self-evident that Dem Heavies have more in common with Rep Heavies than either has with their respective rank-and-file members.
But don’t dismiss MoveOn as bought’n sold whores of the corporatist elites quite yet.
Politics is a dirty sport and whoever is planning to play in its big leaugues will invariably find themselves sleeping with sluts and in need of a bath.
But Eli Pariser and company remain patriots and idealists in my book until they are conclusively shown to be otherwise. They have accomplished more to disseminate nationwide involvment in the political process through grassroots activism than any other group outside the ranks of organized politics to my knowledge. I have been an active member for about two years now. I don’t read about them, I AM them.
And WE are committed, genuine, hardworking, flawed, lovers of democracy who use our participation to bring the WE back into ‘We, the People’.
For a forum of alleged progressive idealists, Common Dreams is up to its nostrils in armchair cynics.
michaelPDA you are right … i dont get it … how the hell do you change a rotten, corrupt, hypocritic, self-serving, classist political party that sold its ‘base’ down the river years ago. You can fight ‘long term’ for another 50 years but im outta there .. see ya.
As for you leoman i dont buy the argument that if you dont support Moveon.org you are an armchair cynic coz you have no idea of knowing what everyone on the forum actually does.
To move on is exactly what we need… and this means to distance oneself from corporate repression. Although the last elections mandated Democrats to change direction, leadership has not surfaced in DC. So please folks, accept that the name of the party is of little significance, it is only a word, and at this stage of a near world ending game which they in Washington “play around with,” on a daily basis, it is our lives, our livelihood, our country, our allies, and all humanity who may suffer greatly, if we voters in America do not do a better job of choosing and electing good and intelligent leaders.
Many posters here are in agreement about Dennis Kucinich. If we want him to win the Democratic primary next Nov, he also needs our financial help, and he needs us to continue using our voices to encourage others to believe he is the best candidate. Work for the peace candidate as though your life depended on it - because it does.
“When moveon.org starts standing behind a true Progressive like Dennis Kucinich instead of Clinton and Obama, I’ll pay attention to them. Otherwise, they are just another CENTRIST non-leaning-left site of biz-as-uzual.”
Celebrity is exactly correct. It is time for the true left to rise.
As a member of MoveOn.org, which is now up to 3.4 million members since the latest actions the organization has staged, I would like to correct a few points from above. MoveOn.org has not endorsed any candidate for president and the members cover the spectrum from Kucinich (progressive) to Clinton (centrist)supporters and probably like one candidate for some stances while another for others. What Moveon.org can do is mobilize a progressive group of people on some issues that the majority of the group supports and has the energy to carry out. That doesn’t stop some of us in working on issues independently that are important to us, such as impeachment of the president and vice president. In regards to General Patreaus, I think it’s important to keep in mind that Bush got rid of every general that disagreed with him and the General was giving a report on how he did his job. What would a report look like if you were to report back on how you did your job last year?
i would rather my vote go to my integrity and lose, than hold my nose when i go into the polling booth.
Lorrac:
“Don’t forget the Nader-effect in 2000. Do you forget that the RNC was an enthusiastic supporter of the Nader campaign? They new any progressive-leaning third-party candidate was good for the GOP. This is NOT a time for idealistic voting.”
That is a problem with our single vote, winner-take-all voting system. A canditate (Bush) who is less popular than another (Gore) can win and election because of a spoiler candidate (Nader). Imagine being able to vote for your truly favorite candidate and not worry about helping your least favorite candidate. It is possible. Its called “Instant Runoff Voting” and they use it in several state and local elections. Instead of getting one vote, you get to rank the canditates from your favorite to your least favorite. If this were used Bush wouldn’t have won the 2000 election. I think this is the type of election reform we need. Why use a system that allows a less popular candidate to win? Answer: because it helps keep the 2-party system in power.
gyptian:
You have seriously been dissing Kucinich and his supporters but I haven’t read a single reason for it other than the label, “Democrat”. Labels just don’t help. If you can’t explain specifically what you don’t like about him or his policies without using any labels (Democrat, Republican, liberal, progressive, etc.) then your argument probably doesn’t hold any water.
Forget labels, in my opionion Kucinich is the only candidate I have heard who actually speaks the truth and tells it like it is, and has always been against the war. We should disown him because the other candidates running for the Democratic nomination are full of sh*t? That is backwards logic if you ask me.
It’s amazing the “facts” the “press” uses these days. The last local MoveOn event I attended at a local house was attended by both Republicans and Democrats, about 50/50. That did surprise me at first, but my discomfort was overcome shortly: we all want a better world and to stop this insanity. Wake Up America! Amen.