rucognizant September 12th, 2007 1:28 pm:

Good for you, and thanks!

With the Petraeus circus, our evolution into a fully Orwellian society with a completely Orwellian government and media just experienced another surge.

interesting that Gen. David Petraeus is activily supporting a man who made a mockery of his 'military service'. i have more respect for the ones who dodged the draft. not only is petraeus a politian versus a miltary man, he has a vested interest in the continued economic growth of the military by extending this occupation.

It doesn't matter if Petraeus lies about progress and victory. We have no business being in Iraq in the first place. The US assessment of troop levels, progress, definition of victory, blame for defeat -- all of it ignores the fact that the whole discussion is fundamentally at odds with the fact that this is not our country to play with.

This is Iraq. A sovereign nation. The cradle of civilization. First agrarian culture on the Earth. A nation of people who never asked us to invade. A country that has been asking us to leave for years. Recent polls show more than 80% want us out.

This critique from Schneer accepts the premise that the US owns the world and is free to romp around any portion of the globe, killing foreigners at whim, with operational tweaks only initiated from within the US along the narrow spectrum of discussion that simply asks the question -- have we crushed the will of the people in this foreign land to our satisfaction or do we need to make an adjustment?

The entire episode is a disgrace to everything the US is supposed to stand for. The US granted liberties to its citizens, on its foundation, that had never been enjoyed before.

Now, we deny the most basic liberties to foreigners at whim and only discuss the effectiveness of the tactics employed.

General Petraeus was not sworn in when he testified to Congress. To do so would have been an insult to his integrity. Besides, he didn't lie, he just read the report which was drafted by a speech writer in the White House.

Well, 'perhaps' he did tell a fib. He started by saying, as he glanced at the papers he held. "These are MY words." ____ Really? If those four words were the truth, then we have a very ignorant or stupid general in charge of our troops in Iraq.

I don't believe the general is either stupid or ignorant, he is just doing what generals do, that is, attempt to win the war he has been ordered to win. If that presumption is correct ___ he lied.

Crocker? He's a damn fool, so dumb he would be lying and not even know he was. Did you observe their body language and facial expressions? It was almost as bad as watching Bush give a speech.

"[Our] fellow-citizens think they have a right to full information, in a case of such great concernment to them. It is their sweat which is to earn all the expenses of the war, and their blood which is to flow in expiation of the causes of it. It may be in [our] power to save them from these miseries by full communications and unrestrained details, postponing motives of delicacy to those of duty." --Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799

Of course the general lied. We knew he would. Was there ever any doubt that he wouldn't? This illegal aggression, then occupation, was borne of lies, transpired because of lies, and will continue on-and-on due to lies. Truthfulness will not be found because the motivation is riches, and the forcing of perverse ideology upon a people protecting their homeland and own self-interests.

This reminds me of an old Vatican joke:

The Pope is in perfect health.

Until they announce his death.

Same thing. We can win this war! The enemy is retreating! Victory is just around the corner.

Until we leave in disgrace. The only issue is, how many more need to die before we leave.

"So ambassadors and generals lie. Get used to it." We are. Believe me, we are.

Why do these men lie so desperately to us? The more I read about and analyze the situation in Iraq, the United States and the world I cannot escape the conclusion that to "loose" in Iraq would be a disaster for this country. I have no doubt that we will leave without big oil getting all the riches of Iraq. The FREE MARKET experiment that is Iraq will fail all the way around. It was proved in Vietnam that this kind of thing is unwinable. We will not control the world's oil and therefore the world. China and Russia are waiting in the wings for the US to leave Iraq with the mission NOT ACCOMPLISHED. We have sold off our manufacturing capacity. Property values are dropping as the real estate bubble deflates. We have no value left in this country to support our economy. What the hell do we make these days? The Bushits have put us in a do or die position. The Congress knows this and that is why they are still supporting the occupation and they know that we must invade Iran as well. We cannot afford to loose. But we will, just like Vietnam. Be prepared for an economic meltdown once this country removes itself from Iraq. As I have been saying since 9/11/01 "we be fucked!" I knew then that this moron administration and those before it had doomed us all, one way or an other.

I'd say that we can restart our manufacturing capacity! We aren't that far past the "crafty" 70's. Those of us who crocheted hats and handbags, or carved salad bowls out of wood, then can teach our skills to the younger people. ( They WILL have to put down their CELL PHONES!)
There is already a large organic gardening "surge" as well as a move to save heirloom seeds! It might be kind of nice to slow down to that pace!!

I would say to bongofury and others:

I have this sneaking feeling that the financiers are consolidating and moving out of America. (will they even need nation states anymore?) There is still a lot of wealth to be tapped here, that's for sure- but I have a feeling that they are reinvesting their capital elsewhere.

These financiers are the money behind the corporations, probably are wealth-inheritors that could be traced back to the time of kings and emperors.

(sorry - this doesn't relate to the article)

As the dollar falls, our labor becomes more valuable on the world market! Yes I feel we may once again become the manufacturing capital of the world, move over China, competition is on the way.

I Predict A Stunning Success at Little Big Horn - General Custer

" ALL UNIFORMS ARE BULLSHIT "

Marlon Brando, Last Tango In Paris

It's becoming clear now that the type of people who enter politics and the upper echelons of the military are the most disturbing and delusional among us. They lie without conscience, commit mass murder and war crimes, steal from the poor, and support the most degenerate allies. We elect most of these politicians, who then promote and support their military front-men. If the buck is going to stop anywhere, it should stop with the taxpayer.

DUSTINCHICAGO, your obsevations were very appropriate. The fact is, the royal family of England has a great deal to say about our government. Money talks _____ and for that reason, Lobbying at any level of government should be outlawed.___ FOREVER, thru perpetuity, for all time. ___ NOW. It should be, but will it?

Canuck can make a perpect point with few words, __ better than any.

Canuckchuck,

Well said.

Look, even McNamara was "lying" write up to the end. The low level static associated with the decisions and convictions of men in power always results in some kind of horribly negative outcome.
So, Petraeus doesn't helicopter back home to his wife and kids and think about the US metal that's torn brains out of Iraqi children, it's all for freedom you see. 4 million dead in South East Asia wasn't Mac's fault either, he was fighting terrorists.

The current "enterprise" in Iraq reminds me of the feverish days of the DotCom boom in the 1990's.

Back then, the term "burn-rate" came to describe how fast an internet startup company could spend investors' money... without producing revenue.

As software turned out to be "vaporware" and deadlines passed without saleable products, investors would dump more and more cash into these companies to stave of the inevitable failure and bankruptcy.

But the money went somewhere, and some people got rich.

So here we are, with America's first MBA President at the helm, and a bunch of crooks on the board of directors. The investors? Well, that's us... the U.S. taxpayers.

WarIndustry Inc. can make just as much money in losing a war as by winning... maybe more. Their game is to keep the "burn rate" as high as possible for as long as possible. Their stalling tactics include trotting out the "project manager" - General Petraeus - to assure the investors that the "product" is almost ready to ship... we just need a little more time, just a little more money.

This will stop only when the "investors" this by pull the plug.

Since it's politically untenable to withdraw support from the troops, The Democrats in Congress should demonstrate real "fiscal responsibility". Rather than borrowing to pay for the Iraq campaign, They should cancel every big weapons program on the Pentagon's wish list: missle defense, submarines, aircraft carriers, fighter planes, nuclear weapons. It would be necessary, to "support the troops" in Iraq. I can just see the Republican congressmen squirming...

Bush would announce a pullout from Iraq the next day.

The problem is: a lot of people in Democratic congressional districts make a good living working for WarIndustry Inc. They're going to scream bloody murder when their Rep threatens their jobs.

... we just have to scream louder, don't we?

This isn't the first time Bush had a general lie for him. Remember Colin Powell's presentation to the UN?

Remember William Westmoreland?

"We were just following orders," they all said.

Anagram from the USS Lincoln : C'mon I lied, so scampish

On Septembe 6th, 2002, George Tenent briefed President Bush from a top secret CI A meno, that Saddam did NOT have any WMDs, NONE! In anger, Bush told Tenent to disreagrd the report and to never mention it again. Tenent obeyed the order. Colin Powell was not privey to that top secret memo.

A month later, Congress was briefed on the National Intelligence Estimate report. The NIE report stated Saddam DID have WMDs. A week later Congress voted to approve the war, (with the stipulation it would only be initiated as a last resort). A week or so later, Bush forced the weapons inspectors out of Iraq. Two years later, the top secret report was leaked to the press by two high level CIA operatives and the press literally buried it. (And impeachment is off of the table). It truly is difficult to comprehend.

Robert Scheer should have a national column in 300+ papers, instead of the factually challenged ideologue, George Will.

And, give Scheer, Will's seat on ABC's Sunday morning program.

President Petraeus? Iraqi official recalls the day US general revealed ambition
By Patrick Cockburn
Published: 13 September 2007

The US commander in Iraq, General David Petraeus, expressed long-term interest in running for the US presidency when he was stationed in Baghdad, according to a senior Iraqi official who knew him at that time.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2956422.ece

With this Administration I get the feeling that they are willing and able to kill millions of Iraqi's and will then declare "victory".

Our press won't report the genocide

With Iraq "vacated" so to speak, the cartels would proceed to drain out all the oil, no more problems.

Isn't this how Russia must be seeing it as well? Is that why they demonstrated military might by testing "the Dad of all bombs" today?

These neo-cons will blindly push the planet into WW3....

Don`t paint all generals with the same brush. Remember Gen Shinseki, that told the Bushco that we need something like four-hundred thousand troops to be successful in Iraq? Bush and his crowd got rid of him fast, like everyone else that knew what was needed to do the job right, or stay out of there.

zuzuzpetals: Now I think I get it! This all ties into global warming and the effect of over population! Bush is just trying to combat global warming through his power of ethnic killing and reducing the world population! Next comes the nukes on Iran! More dead people! Not to mention what he's already been able to accomplish with DU and the worldwide killing that that has (and will) cause. See? That's his plan! He's solving the global warming crisis!

KEM: You're starting to make sense. Stop it!

And tonight's prize goes to CanuckChuck! Thank you.

P.S. Forgot to add this little tidbit about what Betrayus' boss thinks of him:

In sharp contrast to the lionisation of Gen. David Petraeus by members of the U.S. Congress during his testimony this week, Petraeus's superior, Admiral William Fallon, chief of the Central Command (CENTCOM), derided Petraeus as a sycophant during their first meeting in Baghdad last March, according to Pentagon sources familiar with reports of the meeting.

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an ass-kissing little chickenshit" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

That extraordinarily contentious start of Fallon's mission to Baghdad led to more meetings marked by acute tension between the two commanders. Fallon went on develop his own alternative to Petraeus's recommendation for continued high levels of U.S. troops in Iraq during the summer.

The enmity between the two commanders became public knowledge when the Washington Post reported Sep. 9 on intense conflict within the administration over Iraq. The story quoted a senior official as saying that referring to "bad relations" between them is "the understatement of the century".

how about this. if General Betrayus thinks we are winning, then he should be made to invest all of his own salary in it. it's easy to believe in something when it's not your own money. the salary of all these neocon chickenshit chickhaweks ought to be put into their "War" if they feel so strongly about it.

George Bush's recent "surprise" trip to Iraq says it all. He lands in a flat wasteland with nothing but dust and sand for miles in either direction and exclaims how wonderful things are in the Anbar Province. Yes, you could just look out there over those miles of dust and see all of the flowers and chocolates that they put down for us if you looked closely! If things were great in Iraq as McCaine, Lindsey Graham, Orin Hatch and others are saying, he would have landed in Bagdad for a scheduled state visit, walked off the airplane to a military band and salute, shaken some hands, gotten into a limo and waved at the cheering citizens of Bagdad as he slowly traversed the 7 mile road to the green zone while cameras clicked and people dizzily waved small American flags. The very thought of this is hilarious. Who do these fuckers think they are kidding?

When I think of what an idiot that Bremmer was to fire the government and the army only to cause the creation of most of the problems that we face now. Then Bush gives Bremmer a medal for being such a reckless idiot. This is just amazing.

This is four times I've tried to post something and it wouldn't. What gives? (and I AM logged in)

OK, now I see. It wouldn't let me post a link.

Just Google the words: Kissinger Depopulation

There's an article by Dr. Lauren Moret. Does this name sound familiar, KEM?

You all are disgusting!!! You live so much in a world of lies that you assume Gen. Petraeus is lying. You read the lines and repeat them.

HAVE YOU EVER been to Basic Training? HAVE YOU EVER seen our military in action? They are held to the highest standards and this man is speaking out of his own accord to tell what he believes.

There is a lot of good going on in Iraq and you are so shallow minded to not research things, but to only believe what our media rights. Schools have opened, stores are operating, people have voted, life is trying to get back to normal as much as possible, etc. Did you not see the pictures of Iraqis with the purple ink on their fingers, signifying they have voted?!?!? They were Happy!!!!!

Man, they people have stated what their intentions are and they are carrying them out. And you think we are the bad guys. These people have been killing our people for the last 40 years and you put this all on Bush. This was happening when Carter & Clinton were in office and you put it on Bush. You are so ignorant!!

How about you see the danger presented and support us ridding the world of the bad guys.

You know, back in the 1800's, if bad guys rode into town you did 2 things: chased them out of town or killed them. Nothing has changed. These people want to kill us, have stated that, have done that (Nicholas Berg, Daniel Pearl, etc,) and you all want to blame Bush. Geez…open you eyes.

Knowledge. Knowledge. I only wish you people would start to question the people feeding the lines to you and see you are not helping. 40 years of Middle Eastern Men killing Americans and you want to blame Bush. Wake Up!!