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Today's Top News
It Only Takes 51 Senators to End This War
Regardless of the spin and counter-spin around the various Iraq reports, a key domestic political fact - perhaps the most fundamental fact - is once again being buried in the debate.It only takes 51 Senators to end the Iraq war, regardless of how many are prepared to cut off funding.
It is obviously true, as many have pointed out, that 51 Senators could cut off funding for the war, simply by not voting to approve it. But to make funding the sole focus significantly understates the case, and contributes to the utterly false and harmful notion that cutting off funding is the only thing Senators can do.
It was clear in previous Senate votes that there were not 51 Senators who were willing to stand firm on any position in effective opposition to the President. There were not 51 Senators willing to stand firm on a timetable for withdrawal, even stated as a goal. There were not 51 Senators willing to stand firm on a popular prohibition against forcing soldiers to serve longer deployments than they spend at home - a prohibition that all sides agreed would force troop withdrawals.
It's true that under current Senate rules, on a free-standing bill, 60 votes would be needed on an Iraq bill to overcome a filibuster threat. (Why we tolerate that only 51 Senate votes are needed to confirm nominees to the Supreme Court who oppose fundamental civil rights protections for all Americans, but 60 Senate votes are needed to pass free-standing legislation to end the Iraq war, is a question that deserves a great deal of further scrutiny.) But as we saw on the fight over the supplemental, only 51 votes are needed to attach withdrawal language to legislation that continues to fund the war.
With less than 60 votes, the Senate attached a timetable for withdrawal. The President, as expected, vetoed the legislation. Then the Senate backed down.
There was no legal or constitutional reason for the Senate to back down. It was a political decision. As a legal matter, the outcome of a confrontation where the Senate and the President agree to fund something, but don't agree on the legislative language to go along with the funding, is undetermined. It's just a question of who blinks first. The Senate could have agreed to continue funding on a temporary basis while the confrontation continued - that's what the House did - but 51 Senators didn't have the stomach for that either.
Majority Leader Reid explained the Senate's climbdown by saying that he did not have a real Democratic majority on Iraq. The nominal partisan breakdown is 51-49. But with Joe Lieberman voting with the President on Iraq, and Tim Johnson in recovery, Reid entered the confrontation with 49 Democratic votes.
But now Tim Johnson is back. That makes 50. The Senate Democrats - if they stick together - just need one Republican to stay with them to have a majority. Chuck Hagel - who now has a completely free hand, since he's not running for any office - and Gordon Smith have voted with the Democrats on Iraq in the past. Other Republicans have signaled that they may be prepared to do so. And for each additional Republican, they need one less nominal Democrat (e.g. Ben Nelson.)
In July, Reid refused to bring a bipartisan compromise measure to the floor, on the theory that Republicans would be pressured during the recess to support a timetable for withdrawal.
Why then should this scenario not be allowed to play out? Why should there not be a clean Senate vote on a timetable for withdrawal and other provisions that could effectively constrain the President? In the worst case, we would see an effective repeat of past Senate votes, with a majority supporting, but not sticking to, constraining measures, after which Reid could, if he wants, negotiate a "bipartisan compromise" that would almost surely be less binding. But there is no reason for such a compromise to be the focus of discussion now, when we have yet to see the clean Senate votes on more binding measures that were promised in July. Let the Senate be counted. We have a right to see who the Senators are who are standing in the way of ending the war.
Robert Naiman is Senior Policy Analyst and National Coordinator at Just Foreign Policy.
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47 Comments so far
Show AllI hate to say it, but (As I think Mike Moore's F9-11 showed) not even one United States Senator (Let alone would be President) would stand up for challenging corruptness in 2000 Election "congressional" hearings. As or more importantly -- currently, most of our strongest defenders of democracy are our weakest as we have given them mostly trivial reason to stop the terror; and, as much, our weakest represent themselves primarily in industry based in making terror. Face it, much of us in our families, our cousins, our parents, our friends, aunt's and uncles earn a living highly tied to a web of terror provocation and global degradation. Even if we don't work for the subsidiary or cousin of the Halliburtons, so many dollars we spend in blind innocence go to huge corporate decision makers that care only to make more money and buy, steal, and kill for more power base over land sea & peoples.
Communicate with the "Yea's" and the "Nay's", educate, continue to hope and try to be good neighbors. Be considerate, be honest with others as you would with yourself.
Wrong. It takes 51 intelligent senators. We don't have the votes.
It Only Takes 51 Senators to End This War
_________________________________________________
Hmmm, I can count the ones we've got on... well, no hands.
Correction: It takes 51 senators with integrity--and Nancy Pelosi. (I won't bother suggesting that she has any.)
I suppose the notion of "51 Senators" matters if you play by the rules that have historically guided governance in our country. But the plain and simple truth is that "the rules of the game" of our governance has changed -- and are being reinvented daily to suit and serve the power players. If you simply judge people by their actions and not their words -- you see a hall filled by senators who simply sit and passively observe the king go about his wars, his torture, his removal of our civil rights, his termination of health and education programming, his deforestation of our few remaining natural landscapes and his handing of the bags of our money to his friends and buddies.
To be a Senator in these times -- is to rise up to the moment -- pull up a lawn chair and simply watch in silence. Don't expect courage from people who demonstrate no heart. Yup! It's a special breed. How appropriate for these troubled times!
what we need is 50 million people who vote democrat to *stop* voting for this pro-war, pro-corporate party. the democrats need our votes but we don't need them. until we teach them a lesson they will not listen to us--they have no reason to as long as we continue to let them take us for granted.
and if we build a strong enough antiwar movement it doesn't matter which party is in power. the Vietnam war was ended under Nixon--not because he was a peace-loving flower child, but because of mass civil disobedience and the breakdown of the military (see the film Sir No Sir to learn more: http://www.sirnosir.com ). when the soldiers stopped fighting the government had no choice but to end the war.
Maybe I misread Paul's statement but Nancy Pelosi isn't a Senator.
Actually, it won't take any votes at all. In order to keep the expenses off the already trashed books, Mr. Bush has funded his war with emergency appropriations, not the Defense Department's budget. That's why he's asking for another $50 billion on TV later this week. If the Senate and the House fail to pass a bill, there's no more money for the war. And to ensure failure, all either chamber has to do is . . . . nothing at all.
Hold hearings into World Trade Center Cough, pass legislation on schools, fixing New Orleans, ANYTHING but the war.
The Democratic leadership (if we can call it that) can completely ignore the anti-war movement because they know that we have no place else to go. With the majority of Americans against the war, it would be a simple effort to vote against any member of either party who wishes to prolong the war. We can call it a grass-roots "bipartisan" approach.
nickhart: Absolutely correct! Plus, we need to stop work now and then as a sign of worker solidarity. I took off work today and one of the bosses had to fill in for me. If the 'common people' knew how much power they really had if they unite, this criminal government could not have made it to first base.
A trillion dollars for commiting crimes against humanity in Iraq, and forty-seven million Americans don't have health care. And the cost of a college education is soaring. And everything else in this country is going up. You know the story.
they only do what is necessary to ptotect their own political asses.
When you have democratic apes in Washington going into the same pockets as the neo-con nazi Republicans what do you think is going to happen. Just think, the neo-con nazis on the supreme court will continue to do injustice to the citizes of this once great country. Impeach and put them before the worlds court. Just maybe they will end up in Hitlers cave.
Actually, the number is 41.
41 Senators could mount a filibuster and defeat any cloture votes. Thus they could stop any additional funding for the war until conditions were added forcing a relatively quick withdrawal.
Why is it that the Republicans know the Senate rules on filibusters and how to use them, but the Democrats don't? I started to say the Dems were clueless, but I'm sick of that excuse. The Dems just don't want to end the war.
If there's 50 or 51 sure votes to end the war, then a filibuster should be a slam-dunk. If they can't mount a filibuster to end the war, that tells me that some of these 50 or 51 Senators aren't really serious about ending the war.
So 41 Senators can end the war. Actually, Reid or Pelosi could go a long way towards ending the war themselves. Both have a great deal of control over which bills reach the floor. All they have to do is block that. The rules of each body I believe allow a majority of the body to override this and bring a bill to the floor, but now its the pro-death side that has to pull a majority together that's willing to vote in favor of more death and destruction.
It is interesting that I do not see any comment on the fact that if you don't have 60 votes you cannot override Bush's veto. The Senate can pass all the bills it wants at 51 votes but when Bush vetoes them what happens? Do you want the Democrats to just keep introducing the bill to end the invasion and occupaton (it is not a war) so Bush can just keep vetoing it? Unless they have 60 votes to override his veto they cannot end the occupation of Iraq.
Since Bush has vowed to veto any bill to end the occupation of Iraq how can the Democrats vote to end the occupation with their 51 votes when they need 60 to override Bush's veto? Explain that to me will you? 51 votes WILL NOT override a veto. They need 60 to do that.
Its simply time to stop the war funding. JUST DO IT.
War is a for profit enterprise, not for those fighting and dying of course but for the corporations that make the materiel. Guess who owns our Congress? (If you guessed We the People best have another go.)
Stop the wars and the cash flow stops, which the rich of our country will never allow. Can you spell Cannon Fodder? That's our children's lives being converted to cash.
On NPR's Sept. 10 Marketplace Show a commentator asked:
"The dot com bubble drove the economy, then crashed, the housing bubble drove the economy, then crashed, whats going to drive the economy now?" DUH... , the War on Terror is a war without end that assures the military industrial complex an endless revenue stream. Bush has stated many times that Iraq is the center of the War on Terror.
The Democrats are not going to end the Iraq occupation because the stock market will crash when "defense" contracts are reduced. Democrats also want the big campaign contributions from the military industrial complex as much as the Republicans do.
as said earlier...JUST STOP FUNDING THE WAR...the Congress doesn't have to do anythings except "just say NO!"
FUNDING THE WAR IS KILLING THE TROOPS! (and the Iraqis)
Jean4One, it actually takes 67 votes to override a Presidential veto. Not 60. 2/3rds technically of the Senators voting. So, if not all the Senators are there, then it'd be less. But if all 100 a present, then 67
If Bush vetoes a bill, just don't send another one back to him. He either signs a bill with funding for withdrawal or gets no funding at all.
Where does this author get his idea about 51 senators needed to stop this war. and we should add the fraud in Afghanistan, when it's only 41 to filibuster any appropriations bill to death, and it would be a death well deserved.
Jean4one,
You're right (though it's 67, not 60), but if more than half of the Senate said they were against the war/occupation, then maybe the rest of that nation and the House of Reps would get behind them, and then the remaining senators (except of course Lindsey Graham, that sonofabitch) would get behind them, and tell Bush to stick his oil rigs where the son don't shine.
Go to it Senators. To hell with Pelosi.
It will only take the threat of impeachment to make the criminal current occupants run for their ranches, just as Agnew and Nixon did.
Don't tell me that Senators do not talk with House members and cannot force an issue when it needs to be done.
Something is terribly wrong with "leaders" who "reprsent" the people when they will stand by and allow precious legislative time to be taken by innoculous impeachment of a president for private consensual sex and WILL NOT IMPEACH EXECUTIVES FOR THE MURDERS THEY ARE COMMITTING DAILY IN THE NAME OF PATRIOTISM.
AND something is wrong with citizens who allow them to get away with it.
WE can end this stalemate and it will only take one week of us "common" laborers taking the same week off to let D.C. know who really is in charge of their futures. We can also form a NEW LABOR PARTY of all those affected by this maladministration and scare the war out of both Reflublicans and Democraps.
There's a saying called USE IT OR LOSE IT. Too bad the Democrats are hell bent on LOSING IT ALL. The GOP on the other hand USE IT even when they're at minority status. No wonder they can FUCK the Democrats any fucking day !!
Last time I checked the Senate didn't represent "we the people" here so I am not holding my breath since they got us into this war.
Vote Number: 237 Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Joint Resolution Passed
Measure Number: H.J.Res. 114
Measure Title: A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Vote Counts: YEAs 77
NAYs 23
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State
Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Nay
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Nay
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Nay
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Nay
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Nay
Corzine (D-NJ), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Nay
Gramm (R-TX), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Helms (R-NC), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Nay
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Nay
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-NH), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Nay
Robert Naiman is right on the mark. It only takes 51 votes in the Senate. The 60-vote rule can be repealed or modified by majority vote. Remember when the repubs threatened to repeal the 60-vote rule when they had a majority? They called it the nuclear option. The democrats should call it the reelection option.
COMarc has the other side of the coin. If the 60-vote rule is in place, 41 senators can kill a bill to fund the war.
The dems are going to end up voting for the war so many times they will have no credibility when the election rolls around. When a democrat incumbent begins to talk against the war, the republican opponent will say "hey, you voted for the war___times. You refused to vote against the war___times. You're not against the war Senator, you're against telling the truth."
I assume democratic candidates will say the same to republican incumbents. "If you really supported the troops Senator you would have voted to bring them home instead of voting to get them killed." I hope it gets that brutal.
The Democrats said they were going to repeal the resolution that authorized the war. What happened? They can do it with 51 votes if they really oppose the war. Bush can't veto that.
Democrats who support the war shouldn't be allowed to hide behind Nancy Pelosi's skirts, or hide behind Harry Reid. The party leaders job is to avoid votes that would embarrass the politicians who voted for them. That is how they get the leaders job. That won't fool people anymore. If the Democrats really want to end the war, a whole series of roll call votes is needed. The Senate Democrats should stop protecting George Bush. They should make Bush use his veto pen until his poll numbers are -10. That will be real helpful to republicans running for reelection.
All the troops should be out of Iraq before 2008.
Are you a creator?
Start creating your communities now, people.
The future can't wait for the stupids to catch up.
Now or never.
Never forget: GeorgeBushInc attacked Americans on 9/11 to excuse their slaughter of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of women, men, and children who happened to live in Iraq and Afganistan.
webwalk, sure wee need senators to fight and fight hard. We had one with Wellstone and we all know what happened to him.
Jean4one,
The point is the Senate does not need to override any veto.
The Constution requires all spending to be authorized by Congress. The White House cannot spend money on its own, it needs a spending bill from the Congress, even for war. Especially for war. The founders put this power in the Congress explicitly so that no President could ever drag the country into wars, and keep it there, without the support of the peoples' representatives.
What the author is saying is, with just 51 votes, the Senate can insist on a spending bill that mandates withdrawl of US forces from Iraq. If Bush vetos it, then he vetos spending for the troops. If the 51 Senators stand firm, instead of caving like they did earlier this year after a Bush veto, then there is no money for the war.
As other posters have noted, this would require the Senators to stand up publicly and fight. They would have to respond to the angry demonization that would flow down on their heads, and FIGHT BACK HARD. They would have to denounce the (P)-resident, and rely on the support and patriotism of the US people in their fight with the White House. They would be called traitors and haters and treasonous and anti-troops and pro-terrorist, and they would have to FIGHT BACK with everything they have.
They are afraid of this fight, which is one reason why they keep funding the war. Our job is to make them more afraid of the people of the US than they are of this fight.
And of course, as many have and will point out, they also do not do this even though it is in their power, because they are craven and corrupt and beholden to special interests and the entire political culture in the United States is horribly rotten... but We The People still need to do whatever it takes to make all the corrupt powers more afraid of us than they are of the alternatives.
It takes 41 Senators to stop this. To stop the war, they don't need to pass anything. They just need to block any bills that would provide more funding.
In fact, it interesting that the tactics employed by Reid lead to him looking like he needs 67 votes. That's because Reid is deliberately taking the approach where he wants to pass a bill separate from the funding that would limit the war. But passing that bill takes 60 votes to end a Republican filibuster, and then 67 votes to override a veto.
Reid is no dummy. He knows the rules of the Senate. The very fact that he deliberately takes an approach that needs 67 votes, and thus is doomed to fail, while he ignores an approach that needs 41 votes and thus might, maybe, possibly have a chance of succeeding tells you all you need to know about the Democrats.
The Democrats want to make a lot of noise about the war without actually doing anything to stop it. In fact, they deliberate choose approaches designed to guarantee the continuation of the war.
Yes, yes COMarc! Yes! That's what I've been saying all along! If someone would filibuster the spending bill, the warmongers then need the sixty votes to end the filibuster. All we need is 40 plus one.
The coward Dems claim they need the 60, but it's not so - and surely if we know it they know it.
It's interesting how they've gone unchallenged in the media whenever they repeat their ridiculous lying mantra. Not a peep about this. Nothing. Chirping crickets.
We need to ride the media's ass on this one and disabuse a sleeping public of the notion that the Dems are interested in anything but 2008 elections, and make sure everyone knows that the blood is on their hands. These people are playing hardball -- we need to play harder. Crank it up!
SIXTY VOTES MY ASS!!
Besides health care and infrastructure --
Global Warming is about to end humanity and the planet looks like it won't survive either --
So there are a few things to take care of --
If Pelosi lets Bush's new funding bill come to the floor -- $200 Billion? -- it will pass.
Pelosi has to keep it off the floor --
She won't --
Only 51 lawyer/senators to stop the murder. The Israel Lobby
doesn't know this?
ilovelife: Good website and I like the 'be creative' aspect. Unfortunately, too many people are waiting to be rescued by the Democrats.
Mr. Naiman, and several others apparently, need to read the Senate rules. It takes only 51 Senators to pass ANY legislation....AS LONG AS THE OPPOSITION DOESN'T FILILBUSTER that legislation. If that happens, 60 VOTES are needed to kill the filibuster. Enter the problem for the Democrats.
Can Americans force....yes FORCE....enough Republicans to have the courage to vote with the Democrats to kill the filibuster that will certainly take place?
The next question: Can Americans FORCE enough Republicans to vote with the Democrats to overcome a presidential veto? That takes 67 VOTES.
How many people here know the Republicans in the Senate have already set a new record for filibusters in a Congressional term?
Lastly, how many of you would vote to keep more of the new armored vehicles or safer helmets from going to the soldiers in Iraq? That's the quandry the Democrats have to deal with.
IT'S NOT THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE THE PROBLEM. IT'S THE REPUBLICANS...AND US!
If we won't take the time to stop complaining and start calling Republican Representatives and Senators, and letting them know in no uncertain terms they're not going to keep their jobs if they continue to side with the administration on Iraq, this whole fiasco will never end.
IT'S NO UP TO THE DEMOCRATS! IT'S UP TO US!
You couldn't find 51 christian senators to save JESUS from the cross, not while there are pieces of silver to be made.
Is there a website that lists how all senators and representatives vote on a bill?
Sophia1729, try thomas.gov. You will need the number of the bill (HRxxxx or Sxxxx) or you can search by word, I think, I usually go with the bill number.
Beyond the question of defunding the Iraqi Holocaust is the continued funding of the US Empire. Nullify the Empire by declining to fund it through taxation. Honestly, how many here demand from their congresscritters an action--defunding ongoing wars, holocausts, and mayhem on a global basis--they are unwilling to take themselves?
Throughout my 51+ years of existence, the US government was/is illigitimate because it has repeatedly refused to uphold and defend the constitution as written and amended by treaty and USSC decisions, especially the Nuremberg Laws, Geneva Conventions, and Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Therefore, we have had no obligation to continue to provide succor to this illegitimate government. As soon as a PROVEN legitimate government is installed that executes the laws already written (this is how it proves itself to be legitimate), we are then obligated to provide succor as the implicit contract existing between citizens and government will be re-established--It does not exist today, nor has it for most of US history. It is important to recall that it was the US government that voided the compact between itself and citizens, not the other way around.
Clearly, the actions of the US government have long neglected the desires of US citizens on a whole spectrum of policies, not just war and peace, and is therefore in violation of its rationale as stated in the Preamble to the Constitution. How long this has been occurring is debatable, but certainly since WW2 (I would argue since 1787).
If one pays federal taxes, one supports the biggest terrorist network on the planet.
If there were 100,000 of us who chose not to pay our federal income tax on the basis of our unwillingness to fund this illegal war, we might get some attention to the problem.
100,000 is a pretty good number. Are there 2,000 such die hards in each state of this 'union'? I would think so. There's likely one in every city or town on average.
50 X 2,000 = 100,000.
Is it possible there are that many so committed against this war? The system could not handle 100,000 tax witholding protestors. Think of 250,000 or half a million.
There ARE some possiblilities available to us to stop this war, other than weapons, violence or Congress.
It can be done with commitment of those who are resolute about how much they are really against this war. It is called nonviolent resistance. It can work though it takes total commitment to the effort, beyond the talking, beyond the blogging, griping, bawling and moaning, beyond the fragmented efforts of so many fractured organizations out here trying to 'make a difference'.
What we need is a single effort, organization and unified support to make sure it works.
gardengoddess.
You're making the Senator Biden argument. It doesn't work. New weapons or protective gear isn't going to win the war.
The question isn't whether the new armored vehicles can withstand most roadside bombs or EFP's. Can they withstand the anti-tank weapons that knocked out the most heavily armored tank in the world – the Israeli Merkavas in Lebanon? Iran or Syria or both supplied Hizbollah with those anti-tank weapons. If Iran is the bad boy in Iraq it is made out to be, why won't Iran supply the Iraqi insurgents with anti-tank weapons if need be?
More importantly, the war is based on lies -that is why the public quit supporting the war. If the democrats want our soldiers to fight or die for lies, the public will withdraw support from the democrats. We are not the problem gardengoddess.
THE PROBLEM IS THE DEMOCRATS (& REPUBLICANS) WHO KEEP VOTING FOR THE WAR.
You should quit whining and complaining about us and get after the politicians who keep voting for this war.
in:
CDLWE September 12th, 2007 6:04 pm
"....would stand up for challenging corruptness in 2000 Election "congressional" hearings."
should read "....would stand up for challenging corruptness in the 2000 Election congressional non-hearings"
Ever since 2005 I have been voting for the Green Party. If there's not Green candidate then nobody gets my vote. And my conscience is perfectly happy because I know that the senators of the big two parties own stock in the same corporations...
How about a week-long spending strike beginning the day the supplemental war funding hearings begin? With the goal of 41 Senators filibustering against the passage of any supplemental funding for the war that doesn't include a responsible plan for withdrawal with timelines and provision for diplomatic initiatives to encourage regional support for a federal Iraqi system (like Joe Biden suggests) and a residual reserve force for training, border defense, and backup for the Iraqi defense forces against massed attack (again like Biden's plan)? Didn't I already see something like this suggested somewhere? MoveOn (or Common Dreams) could get the word out with all of us emailing our family and friends. A little bit of planning ahead could make this a relatively risk-free but still dramatic statement by the 3/4 of the American people who oppose this war. What do you all think?
Citizen65: I've been advocating similar methods plus a general strike of all working people, but very few would participate. It is much easier to type comments on the internet than to do something requiring effort. One day demonstrations are fun, and I have done my share, but as you know, they have not been effective at all because we return to our jobs and serve the ruling class, much to their benefit. Besides, when so many still enlist in the armed forces, after seeing what the Bush agenda really is, I now understand what the phrase "glutton for punishment" means. As long as flunkies exist, the ruling class will use them and war will continue.
Save yourself and your loved ones, Citizen 65.
Citizen65: I appreciate your concern and I have stated many times what I think would be the most effective method to ending the illegal carnage in Iraq and preventing an attack on Iran, but most people aren't willing to do anything.
Save yourself and your loved ones from this unbalanced system. Nobody can do it for you.