MtnGoat...

Since you addressed my earlier comment regarding "...another unprovoked and unilateral attack...", I feel compelled to respond.

You mentioned, and I quote,"Iran shells Iraq, and trains and arms terrorists to kill US soldiers." As Kristina40 asked, has this been documented or substantiated (beyond being spouted as propaganda dribble from Fox News)? I'm not aware of such claims.

Additionally, if it were true, would this be moral grounds for attacking another nation's citizenry, just because that nation borders another nation of which the United States occupies (illegally), and of which the United States attacked, not in self-defense, but through flagrant imperialistic "nation building", or "democracy building", only to further the cause and agenda of multinational corporations?

MtnGoat, I have to say your arguments (which I have scanned on various posts) seem, at first, thoughtful and enterprising. But, on second glance, your logic is mostly empty and full of vague and hapless meanderings that I find typical of those espousing propagandism, deceitfulness, and lies. Or, as Mr. Corbert might say, full of "untruthiness".

So, the majority of posters on this site don't seem to belong to either political party. That means most of the supposedly politically astute posters here are not part of the political process. You are just a bunch of marginal complainers.

That's fine, but I have to urge you to get involved instead of merely sitting on the sidelines and carping. Go to a demonstration or work in a political campaign. Politics is only as good as the people involved.

America can be a better place, but you have to get out there.

thedeed /

I am also very familiar with the strategy you use: trying to make us feel guilty.

"The Iraqi Resistance is by definition democratic as it is the spontaneous expression of a people who took its destiny into its hands, and is by definition progressive as it defends the interests of the people."

"The Iraqi Resistance and the other resistance movements of the Middle East are movements of the peoples and by nature egalitarian."

America has been invaded and occupied by a fascist regime. We will soon have no choice but to join our Iraqi brothers and sisters. It's time for an American Insurgency.

Nancy Pelosi is a very nice person. She's kind to Bush, loving to wealthy campaign contributors (lobbyists), and she certainly wouldn't kick any of those cute war profiteers while they're feasting at public expense

Grandma...I have had the same problem in exactly the same place on the keyboard and I still haven't found that #$*&% key.

As for Pelosi: Nancy, your re-election is OFF THE TABLE!

I am retired and live in Southern California but I plan to spend some time in the district helping Sheehan's campaign. I'll give some $ too.
All of us posting here in support of Cindy should do what we can. Think of the impact on US politics: Speaker of the House Defeated by Political Novice!

To Medea Bejamin: Nice try but it's time that the only effort you and CODEPINK and like-minded people spend on Nancy Pelosi is in getting her DEFEATED.

Go,Cindy,Go!!!!!!

Perhaps she fits the pattern described by Gloria Steinem years ago: "She looks like us but acts like them."

vangelarus - there is a key somewhere on the left side of my keyboard (and probably yours too) that I occasionally hit by mistake and my message completely disappears. Don't know which key, that's the problem! I'm looking, though -

Common Dreams is great, don't malign it!

WHERE CAN I DONATE TO CINDY SHEEHAN'S CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN???

This is another example of the duopoly that we have all subscribed to and continue to support. The two party system must of course work within the restrictions of the two party financiers and adhere to their will. Such is the way with big money politics. As Vince pointed out before this post, only a collapse shall bring about any progressive change as collapse is an economizing process. So, what to do? Why do we continue to support one party or the other when it is painfully obvious that they are first and foremost nationalists that support the global monopolization agenda? This agenda will only keep us involved with ongoing conflict and advance human suffering, environmental devastation, and a constant world of separatist nations. I say we need to look for post-industrial candidates such as Nader, Sanders, Paul and the like. Forget Pelosi and the damned two party polarizing dynamics. We need to say that we are all set with this outdated form of political organization. It is time for a new party.

If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck....it's probably a duck...

I have better advice for Nancy: choke.

To hell with the Democrats, never ever again will they receive my vote.

Yeah, it sounds like pelosi and bush are birds of a feather: My way is the only way sort of thing.....

Didn't they all (nancy, georgie, laurie, and somebody else) just have a meal together in the currently non white house? Thats what i heard. I wonder whose way it ended up going.....

Peace,
Ken Hausle

A couple of my brothers who are rather politically conservative were very dismayed at the prospect of Ms. Pelosi becoming the Speaker of the House. Obviously, they were concerned over nothing. I had expected so much more from her and the Democratic-controlled House but I should have known better, especially after all the grief she gave to Howard Dean for not supporting the DLC election "strategy." She and her supporters are all falling nicely into place for following the lead of the Bush Administration and his corporate cronies.

I expect that the same will happen if we allow Hillary Clinton to become the Democratic nominee and next President of the United States. Nothing but corporate politics as usual, but then should we be surprised?

Having written Pelosi and countless other congressional leaders, I am astounded at their deaf ears when it comes to the real issues. No matter the language, no matter the peril, their arrogance is beyond our voice. Let their heads roll! I'll go to work for Sheehan anytime! Bush is threatening Iran and will pull the trigger just for spite. The Dems in both the house and senate sit on their deliberative asses. They don't have a clue.

Vote em all out!!!!
Corrupt, Corporate Congress!!!!
K- Street whores !!!
Out Out Out I say!!!

I agree completely with Jefferson's Guardian. I'll be there on Sept 15 (hell, I'm littering Charleston, SC with flyers and posters all about it) to show that a few people in the South have common sense. www.sept15.org

Sometimes the Democrats remind me too much of GM. We all know that GM refused to accept strong CAFE standards and fought against them tooth and nail, when obviously the long-term interests would have been better served by accepting them and working on fuel-efficient cars. And GM has never supported a single-payer universal health care system even though that would certainly help GM's long-term prospects. In both cases, the GM managers felt more comfortable going against their own and GM's long-term interests and choosing the socially irresponsible course because being socially irresponsible had usually served its managers' interests in the past and that is what they felt comfortable doing.

And the Democratic leadership appears to suffer from possessing a similar mindset. Even though the socially responsible course (defunding the war and impeaching Bush and Cheney) would better serve the Democratic Party's managers and the party's long-term interests, they just feel so uneasy taking that course because the socially irresponsible course has served them so well in the past and so that is what they feel comfortable with.

Medea Benjamin, your 'advise' sounds like a cup of hemlock for the democrats. they should drink and be done.

"nut"
"idiot liberals"

If you listen closely, the Democratic leadership will tell you very clearly what they think of you. Every once in awhile the guard slips down and they aren't politically correct and they say what they really mean.

What they think of us is clear. What I don't understand is why anyone still supports them?

Go, Cindy, Go!!!!!

Hey there's a thought, maybe you should ask the NEXT congressperson from that district for a meeting. I'd bet Cindy would be glad to talk to you. :)

If you want to talk to Pelosi, you'd better round up several hundred thousand dollars. If you really want her to listen to you and actually maybe do some stuff you request, then you need to show up bearing the appropriate bribe ... uh, "contribution."

kivals - don't get me talking about "gm".

you know about the whole mass transport hijacking don't you?

a big reason why we have all the problems we have today is because of all the stinking cars......

Nixon promised to get us out of Vietnam. Promises promises.

They key idea here is to recognize the two key wordviews in operation in American politics. When Rove advocates that the Republican Party appeals to its base and expands from there, he is advocating to appeal to those who support the foreign and economic policies of the corporate-conservative regime where the money is in American politics. To suggest that corporate Democrats like Pelosi (like the majority of her colleagues in the party) appeal to the "anti-war" base of the Democratic Party is to ask them to betray their actual base--the corporate-conservative regime where (again) the money is. They won't. We need to oust them from office. The choice is getting starker and starker: we can have a corporate-conservative regime edging towards a police state at home while conquering abroad--or we can have a new progressive regime in America and help humanity make the great turning towards a sustainable Earth community, as David Korten suggests in his book The Great Turning. To do that means supporting Medea Benjamin and Code Pink and many other groups; and the true progressives in American politics like Kucinich, Gravel, Lee, Lewis, Watson, Woolsey and (maybe) Conyers along with some others. It means getting more active than ever before. It means, above all regarding Pelosi, unseating her by supporting Cindy Sheehan. It is time for a new progressive regime. And the good news is that most progressive policies are supported by majorities of Americans. We can do this but it will take massive efforts for many years.

Well,you know what the solution is...Cindy Sheehan is right here on the same page--ironically enough, so is Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of "The Nation" which launched a campaign to undermine Sheehan by suggesting it was not her place to challenge Pelosi. You know, those Katha Pollitt columns were printed in the San Francisco papers, so I'd suggest, Medea, that you get the alternative view out there in the press too.

I'M old enough to tell you again, there is only the party of money.I don't care who you vote for solong as I count the votes and pay those who run. Stop voting for "PARTY" vote for whats good for your family.Those who profit from wars always call on your PATROITISM.Americans for Americans and not for corperate wellfare

Who the hell does this woman think she is? Sold out before she ever got started....let's find out who IS pushing her to such unexplainable positions and foolish arrogance right out of the gate....

Pelosi is part of the DLC (Hillary, Lieberman et. al.). The mainstream media (MSM) appears to be in bed with DLC candidates. The MSM strategy appears to be to portray the DLC candidates as liberals/populists to the blue states/regions and show their true triangulating untrustworthyness and foolishness to the red & swing states.

This strategy tries to ensure DLC candidates are elected in the democratic primaries while suppressing the swing democratic vote in the general election. [According to Rasmussenreports.com Hillary is least likely to be elected and is most likely to lose to Giuliani in the general election, whereas Edwards would beat Giuliani]

I'm not sure how long this MSM strategy has been operational. Bill Clinton (also DLC) could have foiled the MSM strategy in part because Ross Perot split the conservative vote. Not a factor anymore, nor a help.

It doesn't matter who wins the general presidential election, the DLC will continue the neo-conservative agenda. Blue states would hear less about attrocities committed by a DLC president... and the cycle will continue.

With friends like DLC candidates, who needs enemies?

DLC = neo-conservative in sheep's clothing

Run Cindy Run.

I am appalled by Rep Pelosi's treatment of these good people, but I am not surprised.
Our local Rep. Delahunt here on Cape Cod refuses to meet with the local peace group, and he even had them arrested in March 2006 when they staged a peaceful (no disruption) sit-in at his Hyannis office waiting for an appointment date with him after 4-5 months of calls with no response. He has refused all requests for a forum for close to 2 yrs. and has still not met with the group requesting an app't. Those arrested went on a police list and were threatened with arrest by police at a subsequent peaceful antiwar demonstration outside his office.
Many of us contributed to antiwar candidates in other states for the 2006 election and it's been disheartening to see them shift over to the right under Pelosi and keep mum about the war and vote to fund it.
The Democratic Party no longer represents not only the activists, but the rest of their fair and compassionate constituents who know the war is a farce and tell the press in the polls what they think of the Dem. Congress.

Jefferson's Gaurdian is quite right! (please, put your words into action and march for an end to the occupation in Iraq (and to stop an attack of Iran). A few thousand participants isn't going to do it, folks. There's going to have to be over a million marchers to get their attention, and if you aren't part of this attempt to find a solution, you're just part of the problem.) I would only add that if you want to be seen on "The News" you need to start a riot. Otherwise, you will not be seen by anyone other than yourselves.

Ms Pelosi has got to go. I wrote to her as a concerned citizen, and got backa tersely worded email telling me that since they couldn't tell what my freaking ZIP CODE was, they wouldn't answer my previous inquiry. Pardon me, but I thought that the SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE represented the ENTIRE country, not just San Fran. Apparently she doesn't deal with her own constituents any better.

She either does not know what her job is, or she doesn't care. I suspect that she is so eaten up with her position of power that she doesn't give a flying rat's butt about actually DOING the job. She has proven that she doesn't know what the constitution says about impeachment at all, and doesn't care.

The thing that annoys me the most about her is that she hasn't learned a single thing from being in the minority. If she had a brain that functioned properly, she would have learned from the last 20+ years and would be using those examples against the very people who used them against her. She is a person who has no interest in helping the COUNTRY, just Nancy Pelosi. I almost with I lived in San Fran (Even though my Ex-Fiance lives there) just so I could vote AGAINST her.

Go, Ms Sheehan, GO! Take this lazy, no good, unanswerable goon out of the house where she doesn't belong.

Ken Hausle,

Yes, I know a bit about gm's many shenanigans, but too off-topic to go into here. Sorry about inadvertently hitting your hot button issue.

The apologetic language to these Democratic hacks gets tiresome here. If Pelosi had not backstabbed the 2006 voters, Bush would be well on his way out the Oval Office door now, and Cheney would probably already be gone.

And I have something else to say: If Bush and Cheney start a war in Iran, the blood of thousands of innocents will be on Pelosi's hands. It is she, and no one else, who will be responsible for the next bloodletting.

Oh people. The inherent falacy is continually trying to make Pelosi part of the solution. SHE IS NOT! She is firmly part of the problem. She is part and parcel of the Corporate Democrats, Rethuglican Lite. Pelosi will do nothing for the good of the people that the corporate paymasters haven't sanctioned. And the corporate paymasters want war. As the blood flows, so do the monies to their coffers. I say to you, quite trying to put lipstick--and a peace sign--on a pig. Neither changes the reality.

It is PAINFULLY CLEAR that Congress--Democrap majority or Rethuglican majority--has a higher allegience than to the American people. Our votes are just a rubber stamp on the process. Congress does not worship at the altar of Democracy, it worships at the feet of Mammon. And our children are just blood sacrifice.

Nancy Pelosi should listen to her conscience.

That is,___ if she still has one.

Lets stop talking to our lying, corporate elected representatives; there is only one course of action...speak to them in a language they understand.

Get active locally and replace Pelosi and all similar democrats with people like Cindy Sheehan

I am so happy so many of you think the Vichy Democrats are going to save you.

That is if we assume that the two parties are really two parties and not just one with two different names to fool.

I wouldn't advise anyone to listen to Karl Rove. Look what happened to Bush as he did listen.

Jack37, follow the money to AIPAC. They want nothing to do with troop withdrawal and are supporting the current saber rattling with Iran. Money always rules these spineless cowards and all our ranting and raving falls on deaf ears.

hey george fucking bush (the person posting here...)

Define vichy democrats or shut the hell up.....

i mean i know i cant make u shut up, but....

do you know anything about the vichy....

you call out the name of many who 2 the best of my knowledge sacrificed their safety on behalf of principle, but i'll admit i do not know the whole story..who does because its always changing..the point is you are suggesting some sort of innuendo....but who knows what you really mean, and that is not good communication....

As far as i'm concerned, principles matter and so does scale...
and for heaven's sake so does empathy.....crazy that this even needs to be said.....maybe i need to shut up myself...

Peace,
Ken Hausle

Ken, I'm assuming he is referring to the traitorous Vichy governmnent in France during WW2. They collaborated with the Nazi's and betrayed their own people.
So george bush (the poster) very clever and accurate.

thank-you rebelnow that clarifies it a bit for me...

Peace,
Ken Hausle

re bongofury 12:41pm

there's no need for us to start a riot, as there will be plenty of agents provocateur assigned to that task.

for safety's sake, assume that anybody who suggests violent confrontation is a cop and move quickly away from him or her.

re: Vichy France

They not only collaborated with the Nazis but with the Imperial Japanese as well. When the Japanese army moved into Indochina the French there did nothing that would imperil their own well-being.

The decadent DUMOS have become a moral menace infected with rancid dreams and retarded rodent chromosomes never hearing the hideous call of death screaming over lost desert battlefields of depleted uranium mutations that hail from a dark and bloody ground of cash inspired madness and human depravity.

Go Cindy, Go kick the AIPAC girl' butt.

Right on! Alex. The short-sighted children of privilege have ruined and will continue to destroy this nation. They believe that you and I should fight with others for the benefit of themselves; already having too much money to be useful citizens.

Many conservatives used to be liberals until Mammon took them.

I had posted a brief note to Cindy Sheehan about ten minutes ago and it has disappeared Why?

I was telling Cindy that she is the true leader from,by and for the people and the reason that she is given "friendly" advice by "liberal" and "progressive" personalities and publications to change her mind about campaigning against Pelosi is that they are afraid of Cindy. They know that the vision of Cindy for a world of peace, love and justice reflects the desires of the majority of the American people. And they know that such a vision by an independent candidate migh be the beginning of the
dismanteling of their corrupt and deadly "two"
party status quo. So Go Cindy, Go and we are with you.

I ask again the editor of these posts: WHY DID MY EARLIER POST DISAPPEAR ?

Its too late for peaceful change but still too early to line the bastards up against a wall and shoot them. That time is approaching though. And it is the only way to change things.