Bloody Amazing!

Everyonce in awhile I need a reminder like this to realize just how completely different the mindset of some in the military really is.

Its not everyone in the military, but there are at least some that have this combination of extreme right-wing fanaticism, extreme Christian ... sorry, but the only word for me is 'craziness', along with the belief for at least awhile that the Iraqis were responsible for 9-11 and the military is there to deliver pay-back.

When the Iraqis run into the people in the US military who think this way, is it any wonder they believe that we are engaged in a Christian crusade against the muslim world? Is there any belief we could spread in the muslin world that could be more dangerous to Americans?

COMarc...Bloody Amazing indeed. Are these people reading some other Bible?

Unfortunately the only people who don't recognize the pacifism of Jesus Christ are Christians.

I think it was Eugene O'Neil who said "When Fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a bible"

To all the End Timers out there: Real Christianity is NOT a Doomsday Cult!

Police and military have a name for turning the other cheek: "dereliction of duty"
Police and military crucified Jesus. Notably, it was the police and military of an imperial nation occupying a middle eastern nation.

Hypochristians don't even believe that we as a country should turn the other cheek. They also do not believe in the golden rule, what is wrong for Iran is right for us apparently. They also just do not believe in Jesus, or they would stop trying to save themselves with violence.

Real Christians don't murder people or steal oil.

"..the Rapture is not a viable exit strategy.", true enough, but it sure as hell is a viable "entrance" strategy, seems to be working quite fine for that! Who said they want an exit strategy? Today Iraq, tomorrow Iran, then?.... Ashes, ashes, we all fall down!

McDee, it was Sinclair Lewis who said that. (The fascism quote.)

'when religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way' frank herbert, 'dune'

There was this really cool dude who lived ~2,000 years ago. It is claimed he said the following:

Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.

Whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also... and whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.

If you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer our gift.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Lord, protect me from your followers!

The problem is the extremist christians are much more motivated to expand their influence than moderate Americans are to stop them. They persist and everyone else doesn't take it that seriously. So, they continue getting more and more entrenched in our government and daily lives.
It's all over for this country really. Insanity rules and it isn't getting better. Moderate America is too complacent and comfortable, the country will be led by those who want it most; the super wealthy/greedy and mad christians. Say goodbye to all that was sensible.
Unless you want to stand up to them and out smart them, but these people are very desperate and very out of their minds and have a lot of variables on their side, such as rising costs of living and despair that drives people to follow their bullsh*t.
Speak out against christian madness whenever possible, in public, at work, at school, on the street. Don't let these people spread their delusions at all, nip the crap in the bud whenever you hear it or see it, creationism, rapture, god, any of that talk needs to be corrected, belittled, and disproved. Empower these lost souls with facts and encouragement that they can be good strong people without fantasy tales.

This is all leading to some satanic grand battle, leaving the planet in smoldering ruins, as a hysterical, drooling Satan looks on, eyes like two burning suns, and as he opens his mouth to grab another lung full of poisonous air, you can see in his mouth galaxies in flames, and a billion souls flying into a black hole of eternal damnation.

And standing next to satan, at his "right hand" will be the bush administration, Satan's highwaymen, with shackles around their ankles, and necks, reading their prepared texts, to the assembled legions of vacant eyed, shaved head soldiers, rifles at the ready.

For years now, the Air Force Academy has been "infiltrated" with Christian Evangelicals. Clearly, if enough of the Nutcase variety of Christiandom move into positions of leadership in our military, bad things are more likely to happen than good ones. Christiana Amanpour began a 3-part series on religion last night on CNN. I saw some of the part dealing with fundamentalist Jews. They say the Bible "tells" them that they alone have the right to live in their part of the world and the Palestinians have no rights. They feel this is God's word, so who are they to argue with God? A couple of year's ago I tried to organize a boycott of my local TV station in Rochester, MN because they broadcast the evil Pat Robertson and his 700 Club. This was the only letter to the editor I've ever written, that NO ONE would touch. Business is more important than anything in America, but add in the power of Chritain Fundamentalists and change is tough.

CSNY- Winchester Cathedral, too many have died in the name of christ for anyone left to heed the call!
for those of you that think "THIS" is not christianity, wake up! it may not be what you believe in, but christianity has been raping and pilliaging every other culture it has come into contact with since it came into existance. they learned long ago that with a distracting story and a big stick you can control just about anybody. Keep repeating the story and every time someone points out an inconsistency or questions your authority you smack them with the big stick, you may have to kill a few but most will stop asking questions.

How have we let the fundamentalist Christians, as well as the Islamic and Zionist extremists get such a stranglehold on the majority of the worlds peaceful populations? Why do we buy into their fear and hatred?
We most certainly are in a struggle of benevolent vs malicious forces but it is not Christians vs Muslims vs Jews, it's all peace loving people vs their idiotic, fanatical and out of control leaders.

The data and theme of this article express the exact reason why I show such passion for this zealous form of Christianity which in my view simulates a viable "anti Christ" for its using the NAME of God as "permission to kill, sir" and thus inverting, tainting and rendering into blasphemy the TRUE teachings of Christ and other enlighened masters. Because religion relies upon faith, and because it works on emotions, those ensconced in its clutches CANNOT reason. When they are trained to believe the enemy is not worthy of their compassion, they lose any sense of their own and the other persons' humanity. This is a diabolical combination. It also dovetails especially well (creating a 3-fold easy fit) with the basic personality of authoritarian types (who want a father figure giving them recipes for life, and rules to follow. When the rules are disobeyed, punishment then becomes viable) and those who are deeply attracted to sports with their color coding, team affilitations and dramatic attachment to competition and who wins. These mindsets have taken over MILLIONS of people, people in positions of power and people that are heavily armed. Can you imagine a worse possible scenario? Oh, perhaps the way nature is responding in the palpable waves of global warming. Lately when I go about my travels and look about like some kind of detached cosmic observer, the degree to which our world has been broken shakes my soul; and then I look into the innocent eyes of my 21 month old grandson, and wonder how all this came to be, and what it is his life will have to overcome, if he like his peers is to live on this once magnificent planet.

MURDERER (by Low)

One more thing before I go,
One more thing I'll ask you, Lord:
You may need a murderer,
Someone to do your dirty work.
Don't act so innocent:
I've seen you pound your fists into the earth
And I've read your books.
Seems that you could use another fool--
Well, I'm cruel
And I look right through...
You must have more important things to do,
So if you need a murderer,
Someone to do your dirty work...

There's been one major monster that I've feared my whole life - the collective mind of religious zealots, and what they've done throughout history. And now that monster is quickly coming together again. I seem to recall reading somewhere that in every department of "our!??" government, there is now a "Faith Based" office, funded of course with our taxes.

Saw a bumper sticker once that sums it up for me:

The Christian Right are not right Christians.

I'm sad to say, but those fundamentalist crazies apparently have read their bibles better than you.

Christianity is not a peace-loving religion, it is the exact opposite and it demands blind obedience to even the most idiotic rules, thoroughly mistrusts critical thought and despises own initiative, please read the fucking texts and read what it says not what you'd love it to say. Christianity does not belong in this time, it belongs in a multiple shattered form of opposite theologies about two millenia ago. Everything after that was an abomination or the texts are even wrong in that you cannot judge the tree by the fruit it bares. Endtime-fruit with their fingers on a nuclear arsenal. It's just surreal.

With all the pain in modern US society, opiates sell, and evangelical Christianity is apparently one hell of an opiate.

The following is an excerpt from a longer posting at:

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2717

" The Christian fundamentalist and Christian Zionist worldview converges with the agenda of neoconservatives like William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard; syndicated journalists William Safire and Charles Krauthammer; and the chief advisers in the Bush White House -- Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and Elliott Abrams, Many of these figures used to work with pro-Israel think tanks such as AIPAC; MEMBI (Middle East Media Research Institute); JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs); and the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Perle narrowly escaped conviction for trading intelligence secrets with Israel in the late 1970s, and Abrams was convicted (and pardoned by Reagan) in the Iran-Israel-contra weapons and financial scandal.

The neo-conservatives' quest for U.S. domination of the oil fields in the Middle East and of military and economic geopolitics in that region aligns neatly with the views of Harvard scholar Samuel P. Huntington, whose "clash of civilizations" theory divides the world into the West vs. the Rest. In the Huntington scenario, Islam is the force most hostile to U.S. interests -- a point of view that fits well with the "evil empire" rhetoric and the Antichrist scenarios found among the Christian Zionists. The "clash of civilizations" rhetoric often takes on theological overtones, as it did in the president's 2002 and 2003 State of the Union addresses.

The advisers around Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President Dick Cheney are driving their views home. Anatol Lieven, writing recently in the London Review of Books, points to a 1996 policy paper "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," by Perle and Douglas Feith, which advised Netanyahu to abandon the Oslo peace process and return to military repression of the Palestinians. The policy statement was developed in an Israeli think tank, the Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies. The document seems to have played a large part in shaping the Bush administration's strategy on Iraq, and perhaps for redrawing Middle East borders according to the Likud vision."

For more entertainment, just Google words such as:

Zionists evangelical Christian fundamentalists Israel likud party

This illustrates sufficient of one example that Christians are the scum of the Earth. American Christians believe the falsehood that they are more righteous and vituous than Muslims, even persecute them in their own country. I recall a Muslim politician who was recently elected in the USA, yet would not allow him to swear on the Koran. If an individual runs for President Governor or any other office, they had better be the in the correct denomintion of Christianity, such as the Assembly of God or the Southern Baptists.

Genocides happened from actions that the Christians have done. These so-called Islamofascists - an oxymoron, as Americans should know, but unfortunately do not for obvious reasons sort of like how Christianrationalists would be an oxymoron as well - are doing exactly what the Christians have done during The Crusades in which the Catholics killed other Christians and Muslims. Christians by no means are experts on virtue nor in any position to claim they are more righteous than Muslims.

Remember the price paid to Jewish people for their domination of commerce and finance throughout Europe for several centuries? Remember that your demographic may suffer the same fate. A FATE YOU RIGHTLTY DESERVE! What do I mean by "fate" and "the price paid" Christians? Use your imagination, if you can. Christians throughout the world have not been punished as of yet for their involvement of initiating wars, the Salem witch burnings, the persecution of homosexuals, falsifying scientific reports, slave holders, selective reading and deliberate ignoring of their vague ambiguous and contradictory book (note that the Koran is less vague and not as many contradictions as the Holy Bible has), abuse of Government power, etc. etc.

Now some people may be offended by what I said. What I have written is not nearly as offensive as Christians persecuting and killing people associated with various demographics. Not all Christians are bad people one may say? Well not all Muslims, pagans, feminists, gay people, atheists, doctors, and witches are bad either. The United Church of Christ, the Unitarians, and other more tolerant and loving Christians are, unfortunately, in the minority. Assembly of God, Pentacost, and other fundamentalist Christian denominations represent real Christians. Obviously, the latter have more exposure in America than the former ones. Therefore their congregations are larger. So spare the defense that "I am a nice Christian who does not read the LEFT BEHIND books or believe in its theology" becasue I simply will not believe you. Most Christians in The United States support torturing foreigners, invading Iraq, eliminating Habeus Corpus, and believe that people who visit the USA for vacation should not be treated at hospitals if they are injured.

So what do you have to say for yourselves now Holy Rollers?!

There is a local politician where I live who for forty years has been telling, and whenever possible, legislating how everyone else should live (what and how much to drink, prohibitions against gambling, sex, birth control, etc.)

He was charged today with aiding and abetting prostitution (paying for sex in a motel in a neighboring town). He has resigned as the head of some Republican linked, right wing Baptist organization.

After a lifetime of making life full of guilt and shame for everybody else (i.e. except for those who knew he was the self-righteous blowhard I knew him to be) he now is full of pleas for forgiveness and understanding.

"What you did to me---that I forgive you, but what you did to yourself---how could I forgive you that?"---Nietzsche

jesus, save me from your followers.

The title of this article is quite intriguing. I am not surprised by either "crusade" war rhetoric, or the collusion between the US government and the Christian zealots. The invasion of Native American land itself started with that rhetoric and some of the US presidents have been fierce christian zealots.

The English Puritan revolution was justified repeatedly by biblical analogies drawn from the OT. Using a rather dubious interpretation of the book of Daniel, the revolutionaries saw themselves as "the Saints of the Most High," commissioned to execute judgment on kings and nobles. Oliver Cromwell drew a parallel between his revolution and the exodus and proceeded to treat the Catholics of Ireland as the Canaanites. He even declared that "there are great occasions in which some men are called to great services in the doing of which they are excused from the common rule of morality," as were the heroes of the OT. The Puritans of New England applied the biblical texts about the conquest to their own situation, casting the Native American tribes in the role of the Canaanites and Amalekites. In 1689, Cotton Mather urged the colonists to go forth against "Amalek annoying this Israel in the wilderness." A few years later, one Herbert Gibbs gave thanks for "the mercies of God in extirpating the enemies of Israel in Canaan." Similar rhetoric persisted in American Puritanism through the eighteenth century, and indeed biblical analogies have continued to play a part in American political rhetoric down to the present.

The presidents of the US in their "colonizing crusade" invoked the "Christian God". President McKinley said, "We're going into the Philippines to civilize and Christianize the Filipinos." He said: "I went down on my knees and prayed to Almighty God for light and I guidance more than one night. And one night late it came to me: 1) I That we could not give them [the Philippines] back to Spain — that would be cowardly and dishonorable; 2) that we could not turn them over to France and Germany — our commercial rivals in the Orient — that would be bad business and discreditable; 3) that we could not leave them to themselves — they were unfit for self-government — and they would soon have anarchy and misrule over there worse than Spain's was; and 4) that there was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them, and by God's grace do the very best we could by them, as our fellow-men for whom Christ also died. And then I went to bed, and went to sleep, and slept soundly, and the next morning I sent for the ... War Department map-maker, and I told him to put the Philippines on the map of the United States (pointing to a large wall map), and there they are, and there they will stay while I am President!"

Until 1933, 120,000 U.S. troops occupied the Philippines. "Pacifying" those "heathens" took longer than McKinley thought and brought out the brute in the soul of U.S. Christian soldiers. A frustrated U.S. general even ordered troops to kill every Philippine male over age ten. Fortunately, that order was not carried out, but U.S. troops did slay up to 200,000 Philippine men and women in three years, until overwhelming superiority in weapons and sheer ruthlessness overcame local resistance forces. Two thousand U.S. "Christian crusaders" died, as well. This bloody war on the Philippines lasted seven years, which involved massacres and the extermination of populations. The US had "civilized" and "Christianized" the Filipinos and established its control. One critical citizen satirized McKinley's war: "G is for guns/ That McKinley has sent/ To teach Filipinos/ What Jesus Christ meant."

U.S. President William McKinley's words should echo with President Bush. Bush has confessed that he talks to God and hears His words. Like McKinley, Bush understands that the stars and stripes stand for inseparable U.S. commercial interests and Christian zealot purposes.The Christian zealots of the time praised McKinley's will in overcoming Satan (Phililippinos) with military force. Now the descendents of these zealots that counseled McKinley, push Armageddon and Rapture as themes of U.S. war policy. Few days after 9/11 President Bush called his war on terrorism as "This crusade."

The world knows that it was Rev. Jerry Falwel, who was instrumental in making Ronald Reagan as the US president. The Christain zealot crusader Billy Graham validated the immoral and unethical Vietnam war. Christian zealot crusaders like Pat Robertson, James Dobson, influence the US goverment and its polices. Everyone knows that the US mercinary company "Blackwater", which is active in Iraq and Somalia, funds some of the Christian zealot crusaders, like James Dobson. Watch Trinity Broadcasting Network,where you will see the US christian crusaders (that is, US soldiers) distributing christian literature in Iraq and Afghanistan. That means the American christian evangelism includes genocidal activities and distribution of christian literature.

The author writes that "many of our enemies in the Middle East believe that the world is locked in a contest between christianity and Islam." Who are these "enemies"? Are they really "enemies" of the US or is the US projecting "them" as "enemies" in order to occupy sovereign countries by mercilessly killing innocent people with the rhetoric of CRUSADE. It is not the "enemies" who are the CREATORS of this rhetoric, "CRUSADE" is one of the PILLARS of the US foreign policy. Otherwise it can not convince its "zealous" citizens for invasion of other countries and its genocidal activities.

Let me tell you US christianity is not the Christianity that is being practised in other parts of the world. Atleast what I understand is that the God who has revealed himself (herself) in Jesus Christ is not a BLOOD-THIRSTY MONSTER, but the ONE WHO HAS MADE HIMSELF (HERSELF) VULNERABLE AND THUS IDENTIFIED HIMSELF (HERSELF) WITH THE VICTIMS OF SOCIO-RELIGIOUS AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE TO THE EXTENT OF DYING AS A POLITICAL "CRIMINAL".

THEREFORE, THE US "ZEALOT" (AND CRUSADE) CHRISTIANITY DOES NOT REPRESENT GOD REPRESENTED BY JESUS CHRIST.

christianity has been the most destructive force in the history of mankind.

There is a website called, George W. Bush is the antichrist

and another one called, liberals like Christ.

I can't seem to make links work. Sorry

Siouxrose wrote:

Lately when I go about my travels and look about like some kind of detached cosmic observer, the degree to which our world has been broken shakes my soul; and then I look into the innocent eyes of my 21 month old grandson, and wonder how all this came to be, and what it is his life will have to overcome, if he like his peers is to live on this once magnificent planet.

*****************

Kivals wrote:

With all the pain in modern US society, opiates sell, and evangelical Christianity is apparently one hell of an opiate.

**********

I think both of you have yanked at the the nail of this problem (or untwisted the screw of this problem if that is your preferred metaphor)

To plagerize Edward R. Murrow's famous analysis of Joseph McCarthy, neocons did not invent this situation they merely exploited it while the moderate to progressive voices of society remained mute and offerd no meaningful rebuttal.

If you want proof recall any of the Democratic presidential debates so far and try real hard to find anything that would distinguish the likes of Hillary, Barak O, Richardson, Dodd, or Biden from the prevailing war philosophy of the current adminstration.

When and where did her royal highness Ms. Nancy Pelosi or Senator Harry Reid declare, "hell no we won't go along with this crap and let there be blood in the streets before we roll over and play dead to the mad men and women in the White House and their administration!

They are all like so many bought and paid for ladies of the night whose pimps are the well-endowed corporate interests and think-tank academics who firmly hold their rhinestone- studded leashes.

What we have is a ruling elite with a vested interest in the growing despair and hopelessness of even greater segments of the American population because desperate people isolated from any sense of community are easy targets for being sold the poisonous nostrums of intolerant scapegoating and are willing to believe any magical rhetorical crap spewed forth by their maximum leaders. (See any Bush administratiion press conference or briefing).

It is how Mussolini and Hitler got their start in post WWI Italy and Germany and uless we start turning off the TV and start reaching out to one another in moderate dialog it is how those 80 million or so brown shirts already part of the Christo-Fascist evangelical movement will be swollen to tens of millions of more voting age people.

First rule of a totalitarian dictatorship:

Believe no official statement unless it is a denial and then believe what is being denied.

Second Rule of a totalitarian dictatorship:

What they will do to gays, lesbians, abortion providers, and femninists they will do to anyone else--it's just a matter of how far down on their "to do" list you are.

Third rule of a totalitarian dictatorship:

The most effective way to oppose their activities is to form alternative commuity that support, inform, and defend one another--communities united by that on which they agree and not divided by that on which they diasagree.

How many of your neighbors do you know?

When was the last time you spoke ro any of them?

How often do you get together socially?

Do you have any ideas of how they feel about neighborhood, city, state or national matters?

Even if they are the cultural, racial, social, political, and/or ethnic oposite of you can you find something, anything to respect about them?

Until all of us can answer these questions and act on them we are just sitting ducks either waiting to come under the thrall and sway of authnoritarian movememnts or (in the alternative) to put a bulseye on our backsides to be picked off one at a time when it is the time.to do so.

"A frustrated U.S. general even ordered troops to kill every Philippine male over age ten."

That's Yahweh for you.

You cannot judge a belief by it's misuse. The message of Christ was not a violent message. To sum up the message and beliefs that Jesus came to teach would be this: Love and treat people the way you want to be treated and God gave us all free will to live our lives how we choose.
True followers of Christ understand these concepts and would not agree with violence of any kind carried out in the name of our religion.
Violence stops somewhere and a good starting point is loving thy neighbor, whoever they are.
God gave us free will so that we could choose how we wanted to live our lives, even if we choose the wrong things, it is our choice. So no one but God has the right to tell someone how they should live their life. It is not a Christian's place to judge or punish someone for how they choose to live, that right belongs soley to God.

Real true born again Christians do not lie, steal and kill.
Let's pray for our America.
Let's ask our Lord and Saviour to forgive us.
Let's vote for John Edwards as our next president
Let's pray and support our troops wherever they are.
I am very appreciateve of this site. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Cleophus

The congressman you referred to was Keith Ellison.
And he DID take his oath using a two-volume
Koran once owned by Thomas Jefferson.

Of course numerous right-wing blogs and articles,
including one by Judge Roy "Ten Commandments in the
Courthouse" Moore, called it un-American.

Four US presidents have taken office without swearing
the oath on a Bible. And various other office
holders have sworn their oaths on the Hebrew
Bible or Jewish prayer books.

Brutality, terror, killing and pillaging is not limited to any particular prevailing ideology, religion, or tribe, it's our history as humanity, or should I say our inhumanity, going back for as far into our past as we can see. We seem to always be able to justify our brutality in the name of some fanciful IDEAL.
When we learn to drop ALL ideologies this murderous psychosis will end. I'm not waiting for it to happen in my lifetime, it may take thousands of years. Meanwhile I do what I can, but really? the killing, the maiming, the brutality will continue and there is little to nothing we rationalists can do about it except watch and shake our heads in disgust.

Sometimes I wonder who has the crusade agenda...is it OBL or the right-wing Christian fundas...?

No one should be surprised that this is going on. The president has always stated his allegiance to the American Taliban segment of the population, publicly and proudly. The problem lies with a US media which continually invokes the spectre of an evil, creeping fundamentalist brand of Islam seeking to sweep away Western civilization, yet tosses all pretense of objectivity out the door by failing to note that the viewpoint of many Americans is just as religiously fanatical as the Taliban's or al-Qa'ida's.

As much as anyone in the media may boast of objectivity when reporting anything, we all convey our biases in one way or another and I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that, unless you're out hypocritically trumpeting your supposed objectivity to everyone.

The Christian right (and the menace it presents to civilized society) is pretty much ignored in the US because it is a popular, widespread mindset in this country. People may not like to think of themselves in comparison to the Taliban or other extremist religious sects around the world, but the truth is the truth.

While we're busy demanding that less radical Muslims reign in their more radical brethren, we need to look closely at our own situation. The Christian right (let's not forget their far-right Zionist friends) is primed for fascism, they feel very confident at this point in time, and they've always been given a pass by society-at-large.

American appointed political officials under the Bush/Cheney administration do not have any foresight because they believe in the Crusade. It would seem, as more of the high-ranking officers retire, the Bush administration has been busily replacing them with religious crusaders as quickly as possible. Look at General Peter Pace waxing religious over the "don't ask, don't tell" nonsense. If Bush bombs Iran, you can bet that more will resign who want no part of it. That would leave the willing crusaders to carry out the war crimes. Note to the comment about Unitarians: I am a Christian Unitarian Universalist. But we have Jews, a Buddhist, atheists, agnostics and others in our democratically-run congregation with no problem because we have no creed other than respect for all and active efforts to help others and bring about justice and peace to our communities and world. Spirituality is good. It is when authoritarian cult mind control is practiced, isolating people from others and putting a stop to questioning and tolerance, that religion becomes twisted and harmful. Those who blame all Christians in America for what the extreme right does understand nothing about the historic impact on America of Christians and Jews for positive good.

Military Religious Freedom Foundation?

That phrase reads like a Republican wingnut orgasm.

...not to be crass or crude or anything.

As posted on Huffington, last Sunday, great read ----

"Current events have inspired me to read old texts. From the translation of
Alexis De Toucqueville's Forward to The old Regimen and the French Revolution
(Stuart Gilbert translation from 1955)

"For in a community in which the ties of family, of caste, of class, and of
craft fraternities no longer exist people are far too much disposed to think
exclusively of their own interests, to become self-seekers practicing a narrow
individualism and caring nothing for the public good. Far from trying to
counteract such tendencies despotism encourages them, depriving the governed of
any sense of solidarity and interdependence; of good-neighborly feelings and a
desire to further the welfare of the community at large. It immures
(Definition: confines within a wall) them, so to speak, each in his private
life and, taking advantage of the tendency they already have to keep apart, it
estranges them still more. Their feelings toward each other were already
growing cold; despotism freezes them.

Since in such communities nothing is stable, each man is haunted by a fear of
sinking to a lower social level and by a restless urge to better his condition.
And since money has not only become the sole criterion of a man's social status
but has also acquired an extreme mobility--that is to say it changes hands
incessantly, raising or lowering the prestige of individuals and
families--everybody is feverishly intent on making money or, if already rich,
on keeping his wealth intact. Love of gain, a fondness for business careers,
the desire to get rich at all costs, a craving for the material comfort and
easy living quickly become ruling passions under a despotic government. They
affect all classes, even those who hitherto have seemed allergic to them, and
tend to lower the moral standards of the nation as a whole if no effort be made
to chack their growth. It is in the nature of despotism that it should foster
such desires and propagate their havoc. Lowering as they do the national
morale, they are despotism's safeguard, since they divert men's attention from
public affairs and make them shudder at the mere thought of a revolution.
Despotism alone can provide that atmosphere of secrecy which favors crooked
dealings and enables the freebooters (Definition: A person who pillages and
plunders, especially a pirate) of finance to make illicit fortunes. Under other
forms of government such propensities exist, undoubtedly; under a despotism
they are given free rein."

And while there are strong parallels, there are two significant differences
between then and now. First, the "peasants" (as De Tocqueville calls them) of
today don't know how to deal with hardship; and second, the internet has
availed us of powers of association and knowledge which was not then available,
for at least this moment.

AMANDLA says, "The Christian right (and the menace it presents to civilized society) is pretty much ignored in the US because it is a popular, widespread mindset in this country." This is a MOST inaccurate statement, when it has been the Christian reich/right that has delivered the nation to Bush. THAT is his voting block!
URTHSONG says, "Spirituality is good. It is when authoritarian cult mind control is practiced, isolating people from others and putting a stop to questioning and tolerance, that religion becomes twisted and harmful. Those who blame all Christians..." I have been to unitarian churches and I agree, they are a very enlightened environment. The same CAN be said of certain sects, but this is apples to oranges, friend! This discussion would not be necessary if this very dark, aggressive and SAVAGE species of Christianity was not being consciously fomented as a means to rev up soldiers for a "holy" war. Sure, it's about oil, the failing US dollar and a host of other issues; but tired soldiers will fight harder if they really think GOD has something to do with the battle. Besides, this phony sense of impunity eases the amoral act of murdering OTHER simply because their identity has been drummed up into an enemy fiction.
POET: One of your best postings and obviously I agree.
I would LOVE to see religion lift minds, hearts and actions but when it is being USED for the opposite purposes and when MILLIONS go along with this tide, then religion must be challenged. Here religion is being used for the purposes of WAR.
REBEL NOW says, "When we learn to drop ALL ideologies this murderous psychosis will end." This is a solid statement, one to which I whole heartedly agree. However, since Europe has the greatest footprint of aggression upon the world, and since Europe has largely followed some version of Christianity, although one can find violence in just about every world culture, NO singular religion has as much blood on its hands as the Christians. The two fiercest images that come to my mind include the BURNING of women accused of witchcraft, a disgusting sadistic spectacle that purportedly killed over a million women. This is religion? Second, the way the indigenous were "converted," or otherwise tortured for failing to accept Jesus as their savior. As if Christ would have validated the diabolical levels of brutality done in his name. I realize the Jews in Israel are using equally disgusting aggressive tactics, and that many Muslims are capable of violence, too. If societies taught peace we would probably see a max of l0% of any population show violence, but when religion justifies violence in its own name, then we can see upwards of 80% of populations become sheep following one another over a moral cliff. THAT is the place US society has come to... BECAUSE it is the zealots who are fueling a presidency that is BENT upon war and destruction. The TRUTH is the only thing that can break this spell, and if we have an interest in living, in releasing this planet to new generations, we'd better speak the truth about this or a 21st century crusade armed with nuclear weapons and the pathetic concept of a big bang, could indeed replicate quite a big bang and take most of us along.

More like Right Behinds, Eternal Farces resurrecting the rupture among the children of Abraham for miserepublican FUNDAMENTal missions.

apocalyptic fantasies are part & parcel of the judaeo-xian-muslim scriptural tradition. but there are two interesting features about the US: it's foundation as a "city on a hill," as The New World (promised by the prophet Isaiah, i believe), and all that puritan crap somebody pointed out above. the 2nd thing is disappointment w/that new world: the US declares itself the end (destiny) of humanity (fukuyama's end of history and the last man nonsense); such an end is very, very disappointing. the glorious New Jerusalem/Promised Land is a bitter joke. so that end of humanity is in danger of literally becoming the end (death) of humanity.

these fundies are whackos and there are different factors involved, but one of them is profound disappointment w/the myth of America.

Please do not deride all Christians and think they are all on the same page...

There are a lot of good Bible-believing Christians who do not believe the theology of the West vs. the rest/Islam, etc. It's not Biblical.

There are many Bible-believing Christians who disagree with the Israel-only theological agenda, as not being true to the Bible or prophecies. We also have not forgotten that Jesus was peace-loving and against the use of force. (Which the "Left Behind" game seems to contradict!)

I read in the Bible that Jesus treated with respect those who held different theology, even "erroneous" theology, but didn't denounce their religion. Rather, he simply said, "Someday you will worship [God] in both spirit and in truth."

Again, please do not attack all Christians. Not all so-called Christians follow Christ (ironically).

This type of missionary program where you bomb and occupy a country then give them Bibles is a slightly different approach than Jesus used to gain followers.

I don't think we should blame Jesus for this problem.

To Sir Melvin and others who have expressed such vehement anger:

When you refer to Christians as "scum of the earth" do you include in that Father Roy Bourgeois, who leads the annual protest at the School of the Americas at Ft. Benning, GA? Or how about the hundreds of people each year, a great many of whom (perhaps the majority) are Christians, who go to that protest? Are they the scum of the earth? And does the epithet, in your mind, also apply to Dr. Martin Luther King, who, of course, also was a Christian?

The point I'm trying to make here simply is that Christianity, like pretty much anything else, including other religions, is largely what you make of it. Father Bourgeois, Martin Luther King, the liberation theologists of Latin America--all these have made of it something good. Pat Robertson and all the other minions of the "Christian Right" have twisted it into something evil. But of course, that such a twisting would occur was predicted by no less than Jesus himself--who said there would be "false prophets" purporting to be his followers, who would "come in my name", but who in reality would be wolves in sheep's clothing.

Jesus' teachings were very similar to the Buddha's--compassion, nonviolence, love, mercy, and understanding. Try and remember that, and don't let your thoughts be tainted by some who purport--deceitfully--to be his followers.

It's not the teachings of the the Galilean master that are in question; a reading of his Sermon on the Mount tells us of his universal call for peace among all men.

Its only in the brooding, egotistical cauldron of the mind of men that His sacrifice was twisted into meaning he died for OUR sins for eternity. He didn't. Yes, his life is an inspiration and a model for us to hope we could obtain someday ("ye shall do greater things then even I") but his sacrifice on the cross was to take on the Karma of his disciples, to cleanse them (prepare the vessel to contain the enormity of cosmic consciousness,) that they would be ready for his return visit, three days later and the moment when he would confer upon them the Holy Ghost. Once anointed with the vision of eternal life, and having removed the lie that is death (that the soul-consciousness DOES live beyond the body), they then had the internal knowledge and thus the courage, to face the certain death that would visit them as they went out to preach the "good news" in a dark and cruel world.

How far has "religion" twisted this truth, as can be seen any Sunday in "Christian" churches and on the TV every night as charlatans and hawkers of fairy tales and fables scam the unwitting of their small finances to visit suffering on all who dare speak truth to power.

Amazing... and this is a place where the reasonably intelligent hang out to read and blog? It seems that most don't "get it" yet. When it comes to Religion, which is, by definiton, faith-based (i.e. non-rational) there is NO Rational arguement FOR or AGAINST. It is all merely pissing in the wind.
Moreover, this is more than ample evidence that - despite the unbelievable Love and Creativity and Compassion and Beautiful Music and Stories and all that is Best in relatively few Humans - the rest of the 8 Billion are nothing but rampaging, raping, murderous, and dangerously INSANE Apes that somehow escaped from the Zoo of Africa !!!

This type of video game is merely a form of brainwash. Desensitizing the act of murder, slaughter, toture and destruction. Since we are not winning the hearts and mind we will slaughter the enemy in the name of Jesus. Then god will come down and take us to heaven because we are Christian beleivers. We are on the side of God, Gods army, so we will go off and kill other children of God because um... because um... because umm... oh because they believe in god too, but he is not the right God!!! blah...blah...blah..Humans can justify just about anything, except for taking reponsibility for their own actions.

What Bible are YOU reading, Oebi Wan? The Catholic Church until fairly recently may have required mindless obedience, but Jesus Christ most certainly does not. He shared his wisdom with his followers in the form of parables, encouraging them to think for themselves.

Try not to confuse the medium with the message. Better yet, try going straight to the source: the Gospels. Other posters have commented eloquently on the need to differentiate between fundamentalist "Christians" and the more faithful kind so I won't elaborate on that, except to say that I appreciate the fact that the blanket anti-Christian rhetoric has toned down considerably on these pages in recent weeks.

Many Christians, including myself, are appalled by groups like the one described in this article, and consider their actions the ultimate breaking of the commandment to not take the name of the Lord in vain, by using the name of Christ to foist on others the worst kinds of arrogance, hatred, violence and greed.

Jesus told us that anyone who failed to care for the poor and hungry would not be welcome in his kingdom. I wonder what he'll do with people who call themselve Christians and CREATE additional suffering in the world???

Here's a REALLY scary thought: It is March 2009, President Hillary has pulled the troops back to the "perimeter" of Iraq admidst howls of outrage from the Right Wing Noise Machine that she has "lost" the war. Tens of thousands of disgruntled veterans who've been playing this stupid game are sent home and discharged into a sputtering economy that has no decent jobs for them.

Shake well, and TA DA, a REAL fascist movement emerges right here in the homeland.

That's the agenda here.

Every day brings new stories that strain my credulity. Is there no end to this descent into hell?