"History will impeach George Bush" so they won't have to.

Sure it will, just like the "Free Market", Hedge Funders, Derivatives, and Federal Reserve Bank will take care of our economic problems. Let's see.....hmmmm.....wasn't it $100 Billion in cash the government just created (out of thin air) and pumped into the capitol markets in an effort to save this economy from total collapse because they're all doing such a great job stabalizing our debt-ridden economy, when in fact, they are largely responsible for the debt this country has accumulated?

"What will History have to say about the American people?

History will say that they were shipwrecked before they got aboard.

Another opinion piece by a woodworker in Vermont. Someone should sit the good people in Vermont, New Hampshire, the San Francisco City Council and other small time, small minded towns across the US that they are allowed to have their opinions on all things. That is guaranteed in the Constitution. BUT just because a few hundred thousand people in NH have a primary before anyone else..in NO WAY implies what they think is good for the country. Many small state policies work because they have a small population that is fairly homogenous. Larger states with diverse populations (like the US as a whole) needs REAL policies that work instead of just divide..like the democrat Party does. Calling your ideas "progressive" is simply false advertizing. Its liberal, left wing socialism. Marx and Engels would be proud of you..next best thing to communism.

History doesn't impeach - neither do the democrats.

If this entire administration can not be impeached for the countless crimes and misdemeanors they have committed, then we will never be able to impeach any President, ever, for anything.

Democrats need to grow a pair!!!

In contrast to S321Saint, I think the article makes an excellent point. The Bush Administration has arrogated far too much power to itself, but it couldn't have done it without the acquiesence, even the active support, of Congress.

S321Saint makes it sound like these concerns are limited to fuzzy-headed left-wingers. But many conservatives are also disturbed by the trend toward increasing executive power.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Our Congressional watchdogs have become lapdogs.

Given that Congress is heavily populated by rich, unprincipled lawyers, I'd be ready to vote for a woodworker myself.

Democrat Congressional Lament:

We can't win impeachment, so why should we try?

We can't stop the war, so why should we try?

We cant stop torture, so why should we try?

We can't stop illegal wiretapping, so why should we try?

We can't provide universal medical care, so why should we try?

The Reply:

Seem the dems can't to a damn thing, so why the hell should we vote for them?

Think about the checks and balances we were all told about in civics class. The President has the veto. This is a very powerful check by only ONE person and it takes a 2/3 majority vote to override.

On the other hand, the Congress has impeachment power. Maybe this power was meant to be used more often, sort of like a no confidence vote in other systems. If impeachment was suppose to be used as a balancing mechanism, I would say that we are out of balance.

No administration has represented the oligarchy more than this one. Nobody can ignore the fact that the impeachment movement against these criminals is really an impeachment movement against the entire oligarchy, including its militarist, capitalist, imperialist, and zionist factions.

This fully explains why the Democrats are circling the wagons with their bed-mates the Republicans. The oligarchy is bleeding from self-inflicted wounds. The oligarchy is genuinely afraid that the American people will take a hard left shift. The people's opportunities are excellent at the moment.

we already know from the war that millions of people protesting in the street solves nothing. how about millions of naked gun-toting people occupying the halls of congress

Come senators, congressmen please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt will be he who has stalled
The battle outside raging
Will soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changing

I wish we had Phil Ochs back and Bob Dylan would start writing again.

Bullshit. I am astonished at the woe is me all is lost crap being passed around. To take you folks logic to conclusion we should just ignore crime. After all, we havn't stopped it yet, why bother. And this global warming thing. It's unfortunate, but oh well, can't stop it.

The shrub gang has done far worse than nationalize steel mills. This won't be ignored. What happens to the constitution and this nation is up to us. Going by what I read here I have little faith in "us". As us socialists say, things will get a lot worse before they get better. Eventually though, you'll have no choice but to work for change.

"The Republicans have criminalized the executive branch. The Democrats, rather than fighting to protect the Constitution (or represent the will of the nation in ending the Iraq occupation), are willing actors in the drama that is unfolding. Regaining power matters above all else. And they have cynically decided that the best way to achieve power is to ride the disintegration of the Bush administration to the bitter end, reaping the political benefits and ignoring the "collateral damage" of lives and constitutional damage that the next seventeen months will bring."

Unless Bush cancels the elections. In which case the Democrats will get exactly what they deserve--but everyone else will suffer.

Aachener, yes that's exactly what I plan to do, and it's because I see no real difference between Fred Thompson or Hillary Clinton. Everything that has happened during the Bush regime has been ratified, implicitly or otherwise, by congress. I vote for REAL change in this country.

Who's interpretation of current events will become the history taught to future generations? What facts will be conveniently ignored? Which points will be emphasized? History is not like physical science where the conclusions can be verified by experiment. Future students will simply be given the text and told that this is the way it happened. Given the Orwellian farce that we're living in today, who's to say that the Bush presidency will not be elevated by historians to the greatest of all time?

thorn3505,

I am somewhere to the left of Kucinich, but in a race between Hellary and Thompson, I might vote for the latter. As you say there is not that much difference between them and actually I think Hellary is more likely to cause WWIII.

And I hate the idea that the corporate media has chosen Hellary to be the democratic nominee and I hate even more how Wall Street has had so much success in convincing the American people that the elections should just be about the social issues and so Democrats should be happy with Hellary because she is liberal on the social issues.

Democrats who play that Wall Street game deserve to lose.

What kind of drugs you on S321Saint?
Are you sharing? Give some to aachener?

Daniel Webster said "God grants liberty only to those who love it and are always ready to guard and defend it."
Do Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi love liberty enough to defend it? Apparently not, but then we, the public are also remiss.
Do you see crowds of 100,000 or 200,000 marching in D.C. to impeach? I don't.

History will judge. And, like good Americans, we will ignore any and all history that didn't happen directly to us in the last, say, 24 hours. Because it turns out the Dems ARE doing the will of "the people," who also have chosen to stay seated in the stands while the fourth quarter winds down, falsely secure in their erroneous belief that the loyalbushieBlues will "save" America and restore "democracy."

The Dems would never, ever, abuse the illegal power Cheneybush now freely wield, would they? All that money they're raking in from Wall Street and the corporate mafia - won't influence their "noble intentions" now would it? They would never target dissenters (though they do still pack us in the protest cages.) Nope, no reason to worry at all...

This is a thoughtful article which makes an important point that the assertions of power by the administration that the Dems are allowing will become, by default, the way the government operates in the future. We need to support those few who are trying to stop this takeover of our country. But all I see here are comments from persons who have come here to compete for the award of cleverest way to bash everyone around. Too bad. Thoughtful discussion might achieve better ends.

The antidote to this problem is Mike Gravel's National Initiative for Democracy. Once it goes into effect, we can test S321Saint's idea that impeachment is a fringe idea.

With national initiative, the public can impeach directly -- even without a hearing. We need not foolishly pin our hopes on Representatives that do not represent "We the People."

If the latest polls are correct, 54% are in favor of impeaching Cheney right now. With a national initiative on the books, President Cheney would have already been impeached.

As for Bush -- does it matter? I believe the figure is 45% for Bush currently, but that represents everyone polled. The national initiative would only require a majority of the voting public from the last Presidential election to be in favor. I'm guessing those that are more likely to vote would also be more in favor of impeachment, understanding the importance of mainting the integrity of our democracy.

History will judge? History is written by those in power. Perhaps Rove is quitting so he can get a head start on a book or two.

S321Saint: "Calling your ideas "progressive" is simply false advertizing. Its liberal, left wing socialism. Marx and Engels would be proud of you..next best thing to communism."

By this rationale, is calling some ideas "conservative" merely code for fascist, right-wing totalitarianism? I thought so! I mean, I wasn't 100% sure, but I certainly had my suspicions, considering. Thank you for clearing this up.

Yes, history will judge. But I would remind those Democrats who are okay with that being the response to the Bush administration, that history also judged Adolf Hitler. Unfortunately for six million Jews, it started judging him about ten years too late.

How many casualties do Bush and Cheney get before we say, "Enough"?

Puck the "Gavel" and give me the Gravel, with a Gr., for veep, at least. Together with a presidential switch to Kucinich; the only man with the bills to begin impeaching the Bushists!

Impeachment is too good for Dick and W.
War crimes tribunals are needed.

In just a couple of weeks the Congress will be debating war
appropriations again, and the Senate - as the Republicans have routinely demonstrated - has the power to filibuster any appropriations it doesn't like. A filibuster in the Senate next month would effectively force an end to the war.
So if each of us does our part in exposing the filibuster option, then we can apply tremendous pressure on our senators.

We must send a loud and clear message to the majority Democrats: We now know about your filibuster option. We know that you need just 41 votes to end the occupation. And therefore you will not be fooling us again!

The filibuster option is becoming more understood. With nothing more than word-of-mouth advertizing sign the filibuster petition:

www.FilibusterForPeace.org

Thank you again for helping expose the all-important filibuster option.

John Walsh
Rich Aucoin
Kevin Zeese

-------------------------------------

Filibuster For Peace
16 Chauncy St., Suite 37
Cambridge, MA 02138
USA

That is such a thoughtful article. For progressives, the message is clear. What will history say about the American progressive citizenry?

Will we unite so as to amplify our power? Who speaks for us? Who decides strategy for us? Tactics?

Others before us have united. We can too. Sure, during elections we can vote for our favorites: Kucinich and/or Gravel; Sheehan against Pelosi; Franken against Coleman in Minnesota; Nader if we need to . . . But what about in between elections? Who speaks for us?

History will judge? At the rate we going there will be no history to judge; maybe some survivors can tell stories in front of a cave, of a time when......................

gordontaurus. i am a leftwing type with a rightwing personality. so, i have a problem. S321Saint's comment makes so little sense to me, i do not care to comment. the dreamer wishing for fred thompson to become president really deserves him, but we don't. i knew a brave WWII tank officer (with a real Bronze Star, i.e., one with a Combat V) who said simply: "The American people don't have the right to be as ignorant as they are. Too many others have fought and died to maintain participatory democracy."

I get naked when I bathe, change clothes or have sex and I am not gpoing to head for Washington with a gun and naked body to get screwed or shot by a soldier boy stopping a terrorist.
The Truman decision was written by men who had grown up knowing the Constituion and the differenece between a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy and yet they sat idly by when Truman led us to make war in Korea without a Declaration of War by Congress.
Yes I know of the Treaty obligation rules towards UN but they too were illegal under founding documents.
Americans in the majority never took any real interest in how governemtn was functioning until an abuse by them became blatant and when aroused merly cried out in pain until the actions were not terminated byut either made legal or hiden until they needed to be made legal, Spying non americans anyone.
What we went into Rooseveldts death signeld the end of the third Republic and the launching of a democracy that today we are seeing the culmination of years of planning to install.
that what the Republican founders envisoned has happened, the popualce voting themselves beneifts out of a genrl fund and a large standign military that became necessary to keep feeding them is at hand, National Socialism led by an Oligarchal and Religous Fanatic Grouping who now wish to spread their philosophy and domain over whole world.
No the founders did not know of National socialism by name but they damn well what abuse of power by individuals and groups of individuals could accomplish if not kept in check by a well educated and informed public to keep government small.
It was an educated but a greedy educated grouping who took over the reigns of power in US and fed by cash and perks of Corproate friends and familys, no matter if demo ro republican, who now rule this nation.
they gained power by Speical Interest Legislation whreby morre and more people depended upon government to be a part of their every desire.
to do so the powers borrowed and stole the majority of that borrowed for themselves and gave the craps to the Democracy advocates.
We have passed through an artifically created good time period, late 50''s thru late 70's and have been paing the bills from that point on.
At least the vast majority of those who pay the bills have with the same group at top keeping the profits of nation for themsleves and finding even that limited ahve now sold it to outside fiancial interest who want their money now!

History will be written by those who are the winners. Impeachment will be written about so that it shows the ruling class in the best light (they were so right that the other side could not impeach). It is really breath-taking to see, daily, the number of congressmen who are afraid to stand up and do their job because they are afraid that they will be attacked by the other party. What wimps!!

History used to be written by the winners, since they could afford to get literate historians, stock royal/monastic/national libraries, etc.

But it turns out today that professional historians are for the most part destitute, we are a highly literate populace, and if there's only one positive thing that can be said of the modern era -- it's that this sort of technology allows the lower-class to spread ideas like never before.

History will now be written by everyone. And future historians will go back to analyze forums like this, and come to conclude that we live in a schizophrenic society. The wealthy literally possess a completely different weltanschauung. Those with a family fortune, family connections, ability to freely move, huge investments or controlling interests, etc. are oblivious to what it's like to be a wage slave and fight for every dime you've got.

So if history will impeach George Bush, will it resurrect his 3,700 war dead, the thousands of Iraqis? Will history repair the economy, restore the middle-class, bring real estate prices back down to terra firma, repair America's image abroad?

History is going to paint the Democrats like the flailing Weimar Republic in '33.

When you consider how easily terrorized Americans have been by the Cheney/bush crime family, you've got to wonder how we'll react when Russia or China start tossing around nuclear threats like Cheney/bush have been doing. Talk and threats are cheap, but not when you have nukes and appear crazy enough to use them.

Most of the world, including me, are convinced that the dynamic-duo are crazy enough to drop the BIG ONE first, and on anyone. C/b have already committed so many crimes, they can't stop now for fear of International Judgment later. If a World Court began an investigation of Cheney/bush crimes tomorrow, there would be millions of victims eager to testify against them. No doubt Karl Rove has already told nitwit and King Cheney to cover their ass.

Based on what you've seen, how do you think they might decide to cover their ass? Go for broke, or face up to their crimes?

The thing that really grates is a creeping sense of guilt that chokes America right now. Our leaders in both parties share the blame for C/b crimes, and they know it. But rather than trying to climb out of the hole, they keep digging deeper. Wars of aggression spawn many other crimes to cover up the original crime. We the people also share the blame for C/b crimes, and we know it. The question is, will we continue committing crimes to cover up the original crime?

Chances are, we the people might someday find ourselves hated and condemned by the world. Somebody's got to take the fall, and I nominate Cheney/bush. When fascism fell apart for Mussolini, the Italians hung him upside down from a lamppost, which gained them points in International opinion. Nobody hated the Italians after the war, they made a mistake, but fixed it and everybody forgave them. We've got to show the world we're trying to fix our mistakes, or they won't be so forgiving.

Cheney/bush have to be Impeached for many reasons, but stopping them from committing more war crimes is number one. The whole world is watching, and we better get it right to save our country.

.

Oh history! If anything, the human story reveals a direct inability -- perhaps a state of yet to evolve form of being -- where humanity can functionally manage in balanced forms -- its unhealthful addictions to power and affluence. We have yet to do either very well , in the micro or macro, without being seduced to a drunk state of obese, self-destruction -- be it ourselves or our growing, endless quest of ownership and possessions. There's an end to this path. My intuition speaks very loudly -- we can self-correct soon -- or that's it for humanity. Lights out. End of show. The web of life on this planet can't take much more of this silly, human drama.

Historical lessons, current events, and rational interpretation of intellegence have normally precluded egotism & theocracy for major decisions in our republic. Unfortunately, this is not the case now.

The current administration is manipulated by the ego, the energy cartel, & the radical religious right wing to an extent never before experienced in our history. The invasion of Iraq, the current suggestion to invade Iran, & the dreadful war on our environment are only some examples.

Unless Americans begin reacting to logic rather than rhetoric, and take back our government from this illegally placed administration now, the rights that we have enjoyed for two centuries may evaporate--and we can blame ourselves for this

History will judge: Yeah, but who will get to read it? At the rate that our educational system has been neglecting American History, eventually, there will be no more History. And at the rate that the present Administration has been neglecting American citizens, maybe education itself will become extinct. It will not behoove us to wait for some history to judge the Bush Administration. Impeachment and accountability of this criminal administration should be on the books for justice for us all.

Forget Impeachment, it`s not gonna happen. We dimocrats are too nice to do that, it might hurt someone`s feelings. That thought never bothered Delay and Gingrich, it was full speed ahead. We don`t want to stop the war either, as we cannot bother our "beautiful minds" on that subject, as a certain Repug once said.
If we really want to change the way things are going, we Dims should start manufacturing voting machines like the Repugs do and maybe some narrow races would come out in our favor for a change. Paper ballots were the best, but those days are over.

I think of Bush and his abuses of powers to be like when you loan someone your shirt and he severly stretches out the neck. And then he gives you back the shirt. You've got the shirt back but its been forever altered and not as good as when you loaned it to him. I think this is one point the author is trying to convey the presidency since it has not been checked properly will be altered like that shirt that never fits the same way again. So I guess the moral to the story is don't loan Bush your shirt.

S321 nice slander of small town America, I thought you Repigs were supposed to be pro small government, oops! Another Ripoffagain lie on behalf of big business and lack of accountability exposed. Keep typing dude people like you show the far right neo-cons true colors as blatant liars and desecraters of our sacred American traditions like working democracy in New England town meetings, the birthplace of both our constitutional republic, and the grass toots movement to hold Bush accountable for his crimes both domestic and war crimes.

Good answer to S321 Mrraven except when you wrote grass toots movement. Sounds a little like a digestive problem. Like when a dog eats grass when it's constipated. Like Bush's dog Barney. Now there's one unlucky mutt especially
if he's a progressive little guy.

Thank the Vichy Democrats for keeping impeachment off the table..

Now that's funny I dont care who ya are!

I wonder if barney is on the table?

We once had this cat....

The true history must once again be carried
forward in ways of our beginings, by word of mouth.
The true history, not some utopian daydream must be told to our children, and grandchildren or else our time on this planet will of amounted to nothing.
They will never know of the possabilities that once were abundant for persoanl growth and freedom of expression and quite possibly of a time without fear.
A time when to dream of change and the ability to do so were left up to ones own decision and mental capabilities not governed by others.
Without this telling and retelling they will know of no other world except the one now being created by powerfull enitys of corruption and abuse of power that is destructive to all of mankinds destiny.

Well folks, history WILL NOT judge the bushies harshly because history is written by the WINNERS. And we on the left are losing, decisively. We can't manage to get our act together, everyone is afraid. Afraid of insurrection, afraid of being labeled un american, afraid of losing the big screen tv, etc.
As to S321Saint, I'm glad you are enjoying the power that the bush/cheney cabal has usurped. Will you still enjoy it when it's hellary/obama? Because this power grab will continue long after bush/cheney are gone. Frankly, I don't want to see any president wield this type of power. Ever.
A recent poll shows that republican/conservatives read less than democrat/liberals. Seems most of the right gets it's information from Fox news and the like. Which undoubtedly explains your opinions.

How appropriate that I watched 'V for Vendetta' again last night. Quotes that spring to mind are:

V: What was done to me was monstrous.
Evey Hammond: And they created a monster.

In this context it would refer to the 9/11 attack, and consequent destruction of the US constitution at the hand of Bush and his cronies. Or Jews and Israel?

V: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.

America has had one revolution. Another would cleanse the country of the villains posing as your elected officials and corporate/financial leaders. It would also the reset the constitution which your forefathers fought to insure YOU a just society.

Evey Hammond: Where did you get all this stuff?
V: Oh, here and there, mostly from the Ministry of Objectionable Materials.
Evey Hammond: You stole them?
V: Oh, heavens, no. Stealing imples ownership. You can't steal from the censor; I merely reclaimed them.
Evey Hammond: God, if they ever find this place...
V: I suspect if they do find this place, a few bits of art will be the least of my worries.

Do they refer to the losses of freedom for the average person in America? Or perhaps to the surreal justice system which has perverted your rights to fresh water, pristine seeds, medicine, freedom of information, right to privacy, habeas corpus? Will it be against the 'law' in the future to have a copy of the constitution in your possession?

V: No, what you have are bullets, and the hope that when your guns are empty, I'm no longer standing, because if I am... you'll all be dead before you've reloaded.

This is definably a parallel to parts of the world which America has destroyed. Imagine how many angry people exist in the world populace that would gladly wreak revenge on America? Think of the numbers…
Afganistan…
Cambodia...
Columbia…
Cuba…
Grenada…
Iraq…
Lous…
Panama…
Yugoslavia…
Vietnam…
All the proxy wars…
The world that the US has bullied.
If you want to end terrorism you must keep your friends close and your enemies closer. How do you talk to people who dare to come into the light to get shot at?
Not one of these countries ever…ever…ever dropped a bomb in your neighbourhood. Maybe if the average American were to have a face to face with 'the angry terrorist' they would see that losing your kids to errant bombing campaigns or having your brother or father shot as a suspected militant would push anybodies buttons. But hey, nobody gets rich trading doves and olive branches vs guns and jet bombers.

Ahh, movies that that just get me wound up. Really I don't care what happens to America. Eye for and eye, you sleep in the bed you make, etc... I just don't want to see you blow up the rest of the world in your final hour.

"A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution." James Madison, address to Constitutional Convention, 1789

My feeling, all along, has been that since Bush pushed us, illegally and deceitfully, into an unnecessary "war" (and I use the term loosely, since it's really an occupation), that he and his administration should be made accountable for this horrific and unconstitutional threat to the American people. Since he "broke it", the only legitimate restitution is that he "fix it". Only impeachment (and more ideally, removal from office) will clear the stench of illegitimacy that this government has created since initially placed into office by a flippant decision made in haste by the highest court in the land. Only a fair impeachment inquiry will provide the beginning of an appropriate "fix".

History will not impeach this sitting president, because only the House of Representatives can bring about this action. The leadership and members of this larger chamber, save the 16 who have signed and committed to H Res 333, are complicit in the same "High Crimes and Misdemeanors", undoubtedly committed by this administration, through their acquiescence, and through their intentional refusal to "defend and protect" the Constitution of the United States, as they promised and took a solemn oath to when they took office. It's their duty and obligation. Nothing short of this requirement will suffice. Nothing.

they will all walk, and live the rest of their lives in luxury. no accountability for royalty.

no accountability for royalty. they all walk.