People don't want or choose to be poor. That's idiocy. In Minnesota, most of the people who stay on welfare are disabled. And from experience I can say that no one loves to work more than someone who is partially or totally disabled.

Saying people want to be poor is like saying Iraqi's hate freedom. It's only the people in governments that hate the freedom of others (including ours) because if people have freedom, the people in governments lack control and power.

Simple logic.

MA_Matriarch wrote:

"Actually these people would be better off growing their own food for more than one reason."
__________

Then, they could have more control over their lives instead of being dictated to by the wealthy elite.

Then, again, wouldn't we all be better off growing our own food? We would have something to share with others and they in turn would share with us.

oldtimer may or may not be old. Why he/she is injecting this absurd commentary into this blog is unclear. It could be for reasons either sincere of insecure on the part of the contributor. Whatever the reason, the premise is absurd. The poor are poor because they want to be poor. The majority of the population of the US is indeed poor, socially, economically, intellectually. From what is written, without any further information, the oldtimer is a simpleton, living in a world of black and white,. There is no such world. This person is living in a world of his/her own deluded mind.

The reason people will not apply for them is because they are a hastle.
People qualify by income-so a lot of people would have to answer nosey questions and spend a lot of time with the useless bueracrazy and paperwork just for $20.00 in food stamps. Not worth the trouble.
You must also have no more than about 2000 , per person. People have automobiles and 401ks and they do not want to part with them.
To all of the people who say the poor do not need cars or 401ks well I work as a traveling rep. You wouldn't want to walk a mile in my shoes because you may be walking 80 a day.

Oldtimer, I'd love to have 100 grand. I'd pay off my debts and fix up my parents' house.

A new house and car? I think I'd sell the car and would try to take care of the house. Not everyone can afford home improvements and not everyone is handy. But that's their fault, eh? Anyone can be rich. Man I wish that were true.

I guess I choose to be poor. God don't love me. After all, I like Judas Priest.

I think if we gave everyone a job with a living wage, we might not even need to give out food stamps.

In responce to oldtimer. The poor are poor because they were born into poverty, not because they want to be poor. The same thing goes for the wealthy, they were also born into wealth. 80% of people remain in the class they were born into.

say blade, rich smith, evelyna have it right. People have reasons for the things they do or don't do. Our family has been in and out( bad times/good times)of the public benefits system with a mix of food stamps and/ or s-chips and/ or subsidized housing. We are part of the working ( college educated yet!) poor with one parent with rare chronic illness.

The only welfare rip- off people I've ever met are the people with photographs of their horse ranch spread sitting in their air-conditioned office between the hours of 9am- 10am Monday morning ( in our county that is the ONLY time to apply for these benefits) telling me they are here to NOT help me. I've only had 2 workers who would do their job with no snide derogatory commentary. Funny, they were also the 2 who were in fact kind and helpful.

At my classroom aide job ( full-time, yet no health insurance) I will be participating in a poverty simulation workshop next week; part of an inservice before school begins. Can't wait! As I vocally explained last year at the Generational vs Situational Poverty Workshop to the folks who make triple the average county- wide income, I didn't think I would be one of the situational poverty folks when I married my first and only spouse after we graduated from college either. When we had our fully and privately insured baby 11 months later, things were great! But less than 10 months after that, after 15 INSURED days in the hospital for my husband, things steadily declined.

Now, after 21 years, we feel blessed to still be together because we adapted to the generational poverty skill set when necessary while transmitting middle class values to the children. It used to be very lonely at the bottom, but now too many of my generation have caught up and get it.

I think alot of the "it's their fault they chose to be poor" commentary is fear based, because over 90% of Americans are less than 3 paydays away from destitution. It is very scary to look at me, the rocket- scientist and special education teacher's daughter, and see someone who fed 2 class valedictorian children from food stamps and WIC in the subsidized apartment.

STIGMA?GOV BENEFITS?here in hardscrabble northern ky,i know folks who have paid taxes all their lives who are eligible but will not apply because they have internalized this country's contempt for poor people.would that the hedge funders who have damaged our system of credit,and are now banging the drums for a tax payer bailout,would feel a tittle of shame.maybe we should call bailouts "greed stamps".maybe we should teach the "better people" to fish.damn.by the way,we are not the fabled mohawks,the gov would have to pay folks to teach our poor people to fish,cook,be telemarketers,or janitors.serious job training,let alone gov job creation is way more expensive than the 1.2 % ofthe fedbudget we spend on foodstamps.don't even consider that many hungry people are too old,sick,crippled,blind etc,to work much.we don't bail them out at a dignified level,and they have often sought dignity in not applying for programs they are entitled to.

Low income people are struggling because we the liberals prefer to feed them fish instead of teach them to fish.

Never mind nutrition or mass self-sufficiency. The opportunity to achieve great wealth and power is all that matters.

DODGER DAVE August 14th, 2007 7:23 pm

"Would that the hedge funders who have damaged our system of credit,and are now banging the drums for a tax payer bailout,would feel a tittle of shame. Maybe we should call bailouts "greed stamps"."

Well Dave, "greed stamps" are essentially the "unfunded liabilities" that Congress does not like speak about. S&L bailouts, sub-prime bailouts, airline bailouts or any other corporate bailouts, a/k/a taxpayer handouts are perfectly legitimate according to the Republican and Democratic New World Order cheerleaders on Captiol Hill.

These are the same people who will tell us that shipping our manufacturing to China, India and elsewhere is in our "National Security" interest while this "greed" mentality is actually making the U.S. more vulnerable as China continues to expand its military under a communistic regime while they hold our $$debt to them over our heads.

"It is a well-known (but not discussed) fact that CHINA AND/OR JAPAN COULD BRING DOWN THE ENTIRE US ECONOMY, NOT TO MENTION THE US MARKETS AND THE US DOLLAR, MERELY BY UTTERING ONE WORD - "SELL"." --BILL BUCKLER

Our country and the majority of its citizens have been sold-out by both parites!

Small farms everwhere- that's what we need, run by poor people, those former food stamp recipients perhaps, willing to learn about sustainable agriculture, and start a farm later- with the help of the government as in educational grants and zero interest loans for later starting the farm. What's going to happen, in the event of a total breakdown in society, with all the agri-monster farms maybe far far away from where you live? Yes, sustainable farming is the answer, to that and to also to how can we give the poor (those intersted, and there are many) an opportunity to do something wonderful, that they can feel great about, for themselves, and their communities. Then, in the event our idiotic government alienates us from the rest of the world entirely (how far away is that prospect?), and we have breakdowns in transportation, atleast the food supply won't disappear where you live. Think about it. Be afraid.

rtdrury August 14th, 2007 3:03 pm

"Low-income people are struggling because we the liberals prefer to feed them fish instead of teach them to fish.
Never mind nutrition or mass self-sufficiency. The opportunity to achieve great wealth and power is all that matters."

Low-income people are struggling because you fascist/neo-capitalists prefer to buy up all the fishing holes and then tell people if they want to fish they've got to pay you because YOU OWN THE RESOURCE.

As to your second paragraph, I can only hope you're being facetious. If not then you're part of the problem not the solution.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=COO20070511&articleId=5615

Improvement in the earned income credit (encourage work) and modification of business tax laws that make it more advantageous to hire someone full time rather than part time or tons of overtime would help more than food stamps.

Poor neighborhoods also have less access to healthy reasonably priced food than wealthy neighborhoods.

Universal health care is even more important.

Half the nation's poor either don't get/refuse food stamps.. the biggest "welfare queens" on earth are large corporations who are constantly being bailed out when their businesses fail due to mismanagement/fraud/theft (Enron, S&L Scandals.. I'm sure that's yet still unpaid), and no one thinks that is a big deal (I'm sure the dollar amount of bailouts is obscenely higher than what we spend on welfare for needy people). It's business as usual.

And oldtimer... show me where I can sign up for that $100k giveaway. That's the price of just one of Oprah's flashing diamond earrings. I'm sure I could make that kind of money last a lot longer and do a lot more useful things with it than someone who requires luxury in their lives..

Let then eat cake.

Most of the "poor" are poor besause they choose to be poor. One could give them a new car, a new house and $100,000.00 and in three years time (if it took that long)the car would be a wreck. The house would not be fit to live in and the money would be GONE.....

To: oldtimer, who said that most of the "poor" are poor because they choose to be.

I take great exception to this. I started out in a very poor family. Are you saying that I chose the family I was born into? I started working when I was 16, succeeded in getting an undergraduate degree with hard work (yes, it was possible back when). I also helped support my parents for many years since they were not well.

I am now 71. Am I rich? No. Am I poor? Not exactly. I have a good income from social security (after paying into it for 46 years). Half of my income is from retirement plans.

With the cost of essentials increasing I once again be poor at some point. I am also concerned that social security may disappear. Unlike you, I don't scorn those who work hard but simply never catch up to where a lot of people start out.

RuthK, there are many poor like you, and many like the ones Oldtmer referred to. He's right and so are you.

The people that really need food Stamps usually do not get them because of pride. There is no middle class income any more. You are either rich of po folks. I am so glad we live on a farm and can still grow vegetables. I can and freeze. Without that we would starve. We help with the church food Pantries/Bank ;thus helping others to eat. If GW don't soon depart and we get a president with a compassionate brain, our America will be sinking lower tnan dirt. We need to PRAY for our America, the leders . our friends and our enemies for a better country ;that we can live together like our Constitution says and as the Holy book says "love your neighbor as yourself".

Perhaps people don't want their employers contacted by Welfare. It doesn't leave them in a good position. If their employer finds out they are on welfare of any sort they can take be taken advantaged of.

The reason people are this poor is because the system is broken. Thirty years ago we did not have the deeply entrenched poverty we have today. Incomes have not kept pace with rising prices for even expected basics like food and housing. Publicly funded infrastructure is what kept people from falling through the cracks.

What seems to escape the minds of profit-oriented business is that these people were once customers and now they have stopped buying goods and services because they cannot afford them.

Poverty ruins health and poor people cannot buy the health care and medication they need. These people are lost as customers of the health care system.

Poor people are INCORRECTLY labelled by people with modest incomes as lazy and bad money managers. NOBODY WANTS to be poor. The middle income earners have given in to fear that they too may end up poor and strive to separate themselves from those in poverty.

Most rich people have no concept of what it means to be under the stress of poverty. They don't make the connection between getting more out of employees for less pay and lower productivity.

Poverty is bad for business. Until people understand this and that the wealthy need to be prepared to make some small sacrifices then a rising tide will float ALL boats instead of drowning many.

If you need any Biblical support for this view, Acts 2:44-45, Acts 4:32-35,
James 2:15-17, 1 John 3:16.

Actually these people would be better off growing their own food for more than one reason.

Apparently there are lots of college kids who don't know that they are elgible to get food stamps...

My family was eligible most of the time I was growing up, as my mother was a widowed high school dropout. We never took them, my mother refused. "I made it through the depression without taking a handout. I'm not going to take one now".

Twister22, you are right about corporate welfare, and the great white father ain't done yet. Have you read much about the housing bubble? People and corporations who stand to lose millions will get rescued at taxpayer expense while the rank and file people living out their days of quiet desperation will get s--- and shoved in it.

All of this is nothing new. Google up "flags of convenience". My dad was a merchant seaman for twenty seven years and he hated it a lot. He would spin in his grave to see it now.

Oh good grief, "the poor choose to be poor"...Uhm yeah, did you hear that on Fox news? Lessee, the vast majority of bankruptcies in this country are a result of Medical expenses and most of those people had health insurance but of course were denied or ran out of coverage. I would guess these people didn't choose to get sick and lose everything they owned nor did they choose to be unable to work. The American dream is pure unmitigated bullshit and anyone that doesn't think so has their heads so far up their asses it'll be awhile before they can see the light of day again.
Also, a high percentage of people that are on food stamps live in the city where growing your own food is next to impossible. Nice idea but not very practical if you live in Queens.

Kristina40 August 15th, 2007 12:56 pm

"The American dream is pure unmitigated bullshit and anyone that doesn't think so has their heads so far up their asses it'll be awhile before they can see the light of day again."

Funny, but sadly true!

Poverty is a crime against humanity. And by all means, let's blame the victims.

The poor work harder and longer hours than the rich, They are more generous to charities, and they volunteer more hours than the wealthy.

The poor are cash cows for the rich. Poverty drives up crime; from which cops, lawyers, jailers and judges derive a substantial income. The poor are merely grist for the crime industry's mill.

The poor are cash cows for many ranks of gub'ment workers. (People who do not have the skills to hold down a real job so the gub'ment pays them to sit on their substantial asses and harrass and bully applicants) { The county where I live has bulletproof glass between the social workers and the general public )

My neighbor ( a single parent working full-time) with an autistic son applied for day care assistance for his child while he was at work. His paperwork was repeatedly lost. He was repeatedly denied and told he was not elegible although the state's ombudsman told him he was. The state intervened and helped him get assistance from the county. The state had
written evidence that the county social worker lied to him AND written evidence that she had lied to the state ombudsman. The state refused to press charges against her and she was never even written up. Did I mention that my neighbor is (you guessed it) a minority?

The poor pay highter interest rates, whether from banks or from predatory lenders like Own Yer Rental & Cash Yer Check Fer Only $50 etc.

The poor exist because wealth exists.

A lot of the poor have to use their credit cards to buy food. And they don't get tax breaks like the wealthy who have had their taxes reduced. It takes a poor person to understand what it's like to be poor. To know how distressing , sign up for food stamps, and then to stand in line where everyone in back of you see you are using food stamps. Maybe there would be fewer poor in our country if the land wasn't already bought up by billionaires. One man alone owns millions of acres in New Mexico. Just think what several families could do with that land. They could feed their families entirely. The poor exist and always will and there will always be bigots who never had to ask for help.

madbeats August 15th, 2007 5:28 pm

"You must be one of those fat lazy people who sit around wanting those of us who work to provide for you. The fact of the matter is is that a lot of folks who receive tax-payer hand-outs are simply lazy and/or irresponsible (why should I pay you for not knowing what a damn condom is)."

Where are your statistics about all these fat, lazy people who just sit around waiting for you to support them? Give us a number or a percentage of the population who fit your discription as being parasites and tell us where you got your information source.

Oh, and madbeats, do you also get outraged when our government takes your hard-earned money to bailout the yacht-club financial/industrial predators? I don't hear you complaining about them. Is it O.K. that your tax dollars support the lifestyles of the scum who run these predatory industries and force people into bankruptcy and poverty?

Also, the "unemployment" statistics that the government gives us only include those who are still collecting unemployment checks. Those who are no longer on the unemployment payroll and without jobs don't get counted. And don't forget that over 3 million jobs have been outsourced from this country and millions of foreign workers are being imported, not because there's a shortage of workers, but because they can hire them for slave wages.

Historically, when there is a shortage of labor, wages go up. But that hasn't happened because our government is allowing foreigners to enter this country to work and depress the wages of American workers so that companies can make larger profits to distribute to their greedy shareholders.

As long as these conditions exist in our country, the American Dream for average citizens is bullshit, just as Kristina40 stated.

If we had universal health care there would be far greater financial stability. Many of those made poor could recover from setbacks due to accidents and illnesses. Many with chronic medical conditions could be stabilized instead of deteriorating. The assumption that illness and injury only visits a small minority is absurd. We are all vulnerable. However imperfect our safety nets, they are there and should be used when the need is real.

"The fact of the matter is is that a lot of folks who receive tax-payer hand-outs are simply lazy and/or irresponsible (why should I pay you for not knowing what a damn condom is). There certainly are those who have had tragedy strike and cannot for whatever reason work, but very few. Look, it's simple, if you don't want to starve then get your ass to work, work yourself through college to make a better life for yourself. Nobody said it was easy."

In response to this, I will say that I did get out and work. I worked my way through college and since then. In spite of this, I never caught up to where you started.

I have referred to this site before:

http://www.inequality.org/

Click on "By the Numbers" and look at some of the pie charts.

As of 2005, the richest 1% of the people in this country have over 34% of the wealth; the next 9% over 36%. The bottom 90% have less than 29%.

Yet, the Bush tax cuts overwhelmingly favored the wealthiest. Taxes for corporations are also dramatically lower. The wealthy are whining because of the "death tax", i.e., estate tax for estates over 2 million dollars. According to the propaganda, the estate tax destroys small businesses and small farms. I have relatives with "small farms". They are already being destroyed and are certainly not worth 2 million dollars.

Tax-Payer handouts indeed! They go to the rich and the corporations, and are not for the rest of us.

a lot of people on welfare ARE lazy. they'd rather take hand-outs than work a crap job. well, crap jobs lead to better jobs, if you stick it and prove reliable. but, that is the other problem with "chronically poor" no future planning abilities.

Madbeats: You are assuming I have food stamps but in fact I have a broader viewpoint in that I know how the poor struggle with disease, loss of jobs, foreclosures, family tragedy. Like I said earlier, there will always be bigots and looks like the shoe fits you.

Most of the "poor" are poor besause they choose to be poor. One could give them a new car, a new house and $100,000.00 and in three years time (if it took that long)the car would be a wreck. The house would not be fit to live in and the money would be GONE…

I strongly disagree. That comment is stereotyping. I have children and receive no child support and have always shied away from asking for government assistance. Here's what happened when I did for the first time ever:
I was denied emergency food stamps and cash assistance around Feb. 7th. I was approved for $297 per month in Food Stamps beginning March 1st and health care. My caseworker knew I had no food in the house and that I had already been to the local food pantry for free food the week before and she offered me no suggestions. She used the wrong address to process my case; even though she had a copy of my lease and utilities with the address (purposely?) so now I don't have my FS card to use tomorrow. I am a full time community/technical college student, in my fourth semester. I have 31 credits as of now; will have 43 in mid May with a GPA of 3.7. I have 2 children; ages 10 and 11. I was denied any cash benefits. I was told by the caseworker that school did not count. I think it does count to further my education so I can get a decent paying job to support my children w/out begging my family for help; as I have done for years. The caseworker was rude, arrogant, and unsympathetic to my situation. I have never received cash benefits for my children and have an open child support case in Michigan against my children's father. I haven't received a dollar in over 9 years from him. I have struggled to take care of my children, never asking the government for a dime. Now that I'm at the end of my rope and need help, I feel I was discriminated against. I need help so I can succeed in my degree-not contempt. I am a US citizen. Would they just rather help the immigrants and not an American family that is trying to succeed?

To all you who are downing people on food stamps, y'all should really shut up and get smart. Some people actually NEED foodstamps and are trying hard to support their families, but just need a little help along the way. Just wait, all you who are saying ugly things are probally banking it and wouldn't know what it means to struggle in life. Some of us weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths and I bet damn well some of you are just rich misers sitting on your asses talking crap about the poor who are actually out there working their butts off to make it in life. Screw your "teach a man to fish and stop giving him fish" why dont we take you "fishing" and dump you right over the edge. so haha

My household makes just over the income limit to receive food stamps. I struggle every day to keep a budget so that I can feed my family. Those of you that are fortunate enough to not have these worries should be grateful and not hateful. There are a lot of people in this world like me, people who wish that they could even get a small amount of food stamps to feed there families. Yes we do get by, but why work all week long just to pay the bills and never get anything "special"? When you are complaining about people who get food stamps just think about the children. It is not there fault that there families are so low income. so keep on complaining about the children with full bellies and smiles on there faces!!!