Water absorbs solare energy. Ice reflect solar energy. We have a classical positive feedback mechanism at work. The shrinkage of floating ice will rapidly increase.

This is great news, now maybe Canada can make some progress with its Arctic border dispute with it's largest trading partner the United States. Making Arctic border considerations into something more than the one sided present situation is good for Canada, welcome to the table Russia.

Lets not allow this to devolve into another one of those horrid geopolitic events where the USA starts another fight against Russia this time using Canada as proxy.

"And then you've got this exposed black ocean soaking up sunlight and you wonder what, if anything, could cause it to reverse course."

Mr. Bush has it all under control, guys. The solution to Global Warming is Nuclear Winter. OK? Now, hand over some more of your civil liberties.

When the Arctic's permafrost melts, the jokes will cease. When the millions of tons of methane gas, which has been locked in the permafrost for million of years is released into our atmosphere,___ so long, the party wlll be over.

It later than we think, the permafrost is melting, ___fast.

Vanishing Earth...aren't we the problem, isn't that what you are all saying... that the planet would be fine without homo sapiens. You people are so uptight I bet you laugh with your jaws clenched.
To those of you who sit at the computer and try to scare everyone with your "sky is falling" tactics, try acting possitive sometimes just for the change of pace.
You wrote "as another WH official said"
well now that is certainly some bonefide
authentic statement then if another WH official said it. The Fox link is a story about a recently discovered 8000 year old settlement now under the English channel thanks to that bastard Global Warming and the glaciers he melted. I am sure they made it up. Should have googled methane hydrate, yeah like I would get 100% accurate info and not the propaganda of people with mega dollar gov. study grants and global warming agendas to follow.
How is global warming a ploy to get my money? Okay, I'll write real slow so you can understand. Unending government regulations on vehicles driving up their prices, driving up the prices of everything transported by vehicles. Joe scientist says methane hydrate is going to kill me so we better do a multimillion dollar study and then a study of that study. 500 million dollar subsidies to methanol producers to prop up that useless fuel that produces only slightly more than half the energy gallon for gallon as gas. Shall I go on or did that tiny little light bulb come on. yes you can call me a troll, first and last time here, you people here all the time listening to this crap? No wonder you are all pissed and scared, take a break, go eat a tree or something.

The cockroaches have stolen the earth.
.
Hay, little chicken, the universe is easier to live with when your own EGO is not at it's center.

The real ploy to grab your money is being done by those who keep telling us that Global Warming is a myth, so we keep doing business as usual, while the ultra-rich build safe havens for themselves to hide from the coming disasters. Already in my region of the world, ranchers and farmers are facing the possibility of going out of business due to repeated drought years. I am horribly scared that it is already too late to stop the economic disasters that my region of the country will soon be facing. And just where will Chicken Little buy his beef then, when it is so high priced that he can no longer afford it? Of course, we are aware that our planet has seasonal shifts, what we ask people to become aware of is that these changes are more than mere seasonal shifts, but radical alterations in the way that our ecosystems have historically functioned.

At least you confessed your trollness. Oh, and I am by no means "pissed and scared." There was once a whole economy revolving around the Western Red Cedar.

karlof1

Yes well summed up. The two "gyres" of "civilized" Western economy and Nature itself have been colliding for some time, and the repercussions, evident for some time, are becoming manifest in epic proportions now. Gyres of "civilized" Christianity are also colliding with those of "barbaric" Islam under various pretexts to control their oil resources to maintain and grow our Western economy. Troubling times.

The cockroach will inherit the earth.

Kem Patrick, you're right - this is no joke. The speed of global warming is accelerating much faster than even the most pessimistic scientists expected, and there's no sign of its slowing down. It's not only the Arctic, either. Everywhere -

One of the CD bloggers has a lot of info on the effect of all this on plankton and the Gulf Stream; I don't remember who but I'm pretty sure she'll check this article out and maybe then educate the rest of us.

The ocean's Phytoplankton supply Earth with 60 to 70% of the oxygen in our oceans and our atmosphere. Those trillions times trillions of tiny plants are dying off, just as fast as all other plant and animal species in nature are now doing. Is global warming, or the use of depleted uraniium, the weapons grade DU we are spreading daily killing off, those vital to all life plants?

Whatever it is grandma, that is another serious problem that is no joke.

Mother Nature is coming and boy is she pissed!

Bush and Cheney are going to open a new business selling ice cubes to Eskimos...its now even easier than selling war to Americans.

maybe we should dye the artic ocean white?

It is not that I believe that President Al Gore would change much, for from it. But given the fact that vey miniscule chages (fly flap-flop) may cause hurricains at such singularity we are living through, is not it an utmost irony that G.W. Bush came to power in this particularly crucial moment in history of our species?

For true believers, God knew what He was doing advising our Leader, or even implanting into Barbara Bush's womb a patented idiot. We have sinned way too much and never listened.

If you haven't read "The Weather Makers" by Tim Flannery, you should. I've read a lot about this, and I think it's the best book on the whole subject of global climate change.

As for the plankton's effect on the Gulf Stream, Al Gore discusses that in detail in "Earth in the Balance" and to some extent in "An Inconvenient Truth." Basically, as the plankton count diminishes because of changing water temps (which it has been doing for the last several years), the Gulf Stream slows down and may finally stop. Then we have a sudden ice age across Europe and to some extent, Canada and northern US. It's happened before, perhaps from natural causes, between 1300 and 1700. (Called the Little Ice Age). It's a fragile balance and we're pushing it out of balance with our polluting ways.

Kem Patrick is right about the methane in the tundra, BTW - once the tundra melts (as it is doing now) and the methane is released into the atmosphere we're all in trouble.

The joke with the Phytoplankton is that in Soylent Green that is what Soylent Yellow and Soylent Red were being made of because the fish were gone. When the plankton ran out they resorted to people. By that point there was nothing you could doabout it. Looks like we will have to go to eating people sooner than later.

Click the "report" link, then click the 30-day link on the Northern Hemisphere pic, then slow down the loop speed to see how fast and in what areas the ice is disappearing. It's very WOW!

When the ice finally becomes detached from its landed moorings, which are plainly visible, ice cover will retreat even faster. My personal estimate is summer ice cover will be gone by 2020, and this positive feedback will accelerate the melting of Greenland's ice sheet. The current understanding has the cryosphere rapidly (measured in geologic time) flipping from stable to meltdown in decades or less, not the centuries once thought.

Back again - There's another excellent article on CD today about what Kem Patrick is talking about - along the left side, "Global Warming Enabled Russia's Arctic Land grab ..."

See - this really is no joke.

The sky is falling... the sky is falling...
the earth is warming, the ice is melting, yeah
like it does every summer morons, spend a winter anywhere north of the 49th parallel then tell me global warming is a threat to anything. My thermometer still reachs 30 below every winter like it has for over 40 years. Global warming is a political ploy to get more of your money in whatever way possible and if you are stupid enough to fall for it your didn't deserve you money in the first place. The next ice age is really going to make you global warming alarmists look stupid, much like you look now to people with common sense. Lets see,,, if I pay more taxes and elect Al Gore, who uses 20 times more energy than the average person, then I will feel good and the world will be saved, yeah
I'm so smart. Hey look here, global warming at least 8000 years old, must have had a lot more SUV's back then to make those glaciers melt. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292793,00.html
Wake up people, they are just trying to control your lives and make you feel bad so that you don't realize what blazing hypocrites these global warming alarmists are.

And who says todays current climate is perfect anyway, maybe the earth knows what it is doing by warming and eliminating some species. Oh well, life goes on for most while you panic and give power to total hypocrites

This year is the lowest energy output during the 11-year solar cycle.

Does anybody care to guess if there will be a discernable effect on the earth's warming for the next 5-6 years?

Google "methane hydrate" and start reading reliable articles. It may change your life.

Grandma, we're already "in trouble." Two systems with emense amounts of inertia are colliding--the business as usual (BAU) worldwide capitalist system and the planetary climate system. Any bets on which system contains more inertia and capable of overwhelming the other? IMO, there's no way BAU will be turned around in a timely manner to exert any significant moderation of climate change. To have any chance, which assumes we haven't already crossed THE threshold, the power generation causing the guilty emissions must be immediately cut by 90%; but the inertia contained in BAU will NOT allow this to happen. Thus, it is prudent to plan on worst-case scenarios going forward.

In addition to "The Weather Makers," I highly advise reading Lovelock's "Revenge of Gaia" and educating oneself at Realclimate.org, which is currently discussing this very new item.

Just how is global warming a ploy to get more money Mr troll?

Those of you with "common sense" that follow Faux News as a source for information as evidenced by your link above, can continue to live in your propaganda-filled delusional world where America is bringing "freedom" to the world. The cost of freedom is rather high though isn't it? Genocide of other people, extinction of plant and animal species faster than the DOW rises, and massive climate changes brought about by our fossil-fuel dependent economy and those around the world that want to emulate it. Problem is, there's not enough fossil fuel resources to support even a small portion of the world's population living at the standards we have become accustomed to. "The American way of life is a blessed one" said Ari Fleischer at a WH news conference some years ago. It is not negotiable as another WH official said. Make no mistake, we will use any means possible to grab hold of these resources, environment and the rest of the world be damned.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function" Dr. Albert Bartlett

chicken little August 10th, 2007 4:04 pm

And who says todays current climate is perfect anyway, maybe the earth knows what it is doing by warming and eliminating some species.

Yes "eliminating some species" would include Homo sapiens, perhaps that didn't occur to you?

Yes. The cockroaches will inherit, and those wonderful little ancient critters in the ocean will evolve further. Why not? It's as it should be. How can anyone believe that we are that special to the planet, the solar system, the universe? That is unless you are one of those who choose to believe the fairy tales of scripture as the truth.
ROFLMAO!

On tonight's news they are talking about re-instating the draft and the stock market took another bang. Combine that with Cheney singing Bomb Bomb Iran and the global warming issue. We do have a few little problems to make us all smile.

chicken little

Yes I am saying the planet would be fine without humans. It has managed for 4.5 billion years just fine. I would like to see humanity coexist in harmony with the planet, however we have yet to show we are able to do this, with the possible exception of much smaller numbers of us who respect the miracle of the remaining plant and animal species that we have systematically destroyed and are gone forever. The success of the "human life is more precious than any other living thing" meme and numerous other population growth memes have been amazing. We are the most numerous large organism on the planet. We have been so successful that we now threaten the Earth's entire ecosystem.

I am sorry I did not provide the source of the 2nd statement. I did mention it was a WH official, namely George Bush Senior. At the 1992 Earth Summit he proved resistant to treaties to curb damage to the environment from human economic activities. His reasoning? "The American way of life is not negotiable".

A 2002 Earth Summit was subsequently held which George Junior decided not to attend (His Majesty was preoccupied with what some consider a grandiose notion of bringing democracy to Iraqis I suppose) sending Colin Powell in his place. Prior to the event the question was asked whether the new president would be asking Americans to reduce consumption in order to reduce pollution. The answer was no. The WH press secretary Mr. Ari Fleischer answered "The American way of life is a blessed one".

Stelablu67, evidently you missed tha major point concering the subject of phytoplankton. Of course you are not alone there.

The major point is, the [ PHYTOPLANKTON ] are the plants that SUPPLY OXYGEN for the oceans and for our atmosphere, from 60 to 70% of it.

When the plants are depleted, by say another 30%, which will be assured in a few short years if we don't stop polluting the oceans now. Then we won't be breathing anymore. We will all die, dead! So it isn't really that humerous.

Of course, until then, I along with other sick minded people will be joking about it I suppose. I wonder if our grand kids will be laughng, because it is a serious subject. Deadly serious.

For example, if any here witnessed a deranged madman running towards your home, carring an assault rifle, and you knew he was coming to kill you and your entire family, would you do anything at all to prevent that?

No!__ Well then,___ you very likely won't do anything about stopping the killing of the one most important form of life on our planet either. __ Why not? Because you don't believe it__ that's why.

GLOBAL WARMING REMISS
It is remarkable that it took the documentry "Inconvenient Truth" to alert many to the impending dangers from global warming, which has been obvious to anyone who had made even minor efforts to be informed. The ice recession, polar bear demise are only the tip of the iceberg.

Evidence linking carbon pollution to warming is as close to certain as science can be. Its causes, consequences, and mitigation requirements have been documented by many dedicated environmental organizations including The Union of Concerned Scientists, and chronicled in the press for years.

The dangerous manipulation of essential scientific data used by this administration to conceal and derail corrective measures for this threat and other vital environmental reforms has also been apparent. Contrary to their assertions, measures to reduce greenhouse gases could only improve our economy by lessening our trade deficits, and improving our security by reducing our dependance on foreign oil. We could also regain some of our lost world respect that has resulted from our opposition Kyoto while arrogantly contributing disproportionally to carbon pollution.

Often overlooked is the fact that the same measures needed to mitigate global warming would be necessary even if it were not an issue. Conservation, alternative energy development, anti- pollution refinements, etc are essential for other vital environmental reforms such as air and water quality, reductions in toxic waste generation, land preservation, etc.

The environmental and social damage from our indifference to carbon pollution and related environmental measures can only worsen if we allow these destructive environmental policies of this reckless and unlearned president to continue.

I'm playing tonight too Paul, just took four Viagaras. One stuck in my throat though and now my neck is so stiff I can't turn my head.

Billly,__ did you hit your head on something?

No one mentioned that in addition to what Paul just wrote, the sea levels will rise by as much as sixty plus feet.___ Less land, more polluted water. more vicious fighting. God, this is such fun, best day I've had in weeks.

The phytoplankton decline was first brought up by Jacques Costeau more than thirty years ago. He gave us from 60 to 100 years to stop the pollution of our oceans or the plants would become extinct. Few listened and in fact we have doubled the pollution and are now also using atomic waste, DU, for weapons of war. When the trillons of specks of DU equal the trillions of phytoplankton, we will have achieved a miracle. Earth will be a dead planet.

I have no idea why a shift of the Gulf Stream would effect the phytoplankton and visa versa.
I do believe global warming may have an effect on them, but they were in trouble before Gore was out of grade school.

I am always amazed how some people can whine about having to do something to save themselves. They also seem to do everything possible to dissuade others from saving themselves too. It's as if they take the idea of global warming as a personal insult. How dare you think that we have to do something? They proudly assert that they will do nothing and that because of that, they consider themselves smart.
What the 'do nothing in the face of disaster' crowd seem not to notice is back when...before global warming was much of an issue, they were doing nothing then too, yet there have been massive changes they seem to forget weren't there before but are now and increasing faster. Now they (still wanting at all costs to do nothing), the 'do nothings', still say there is no need to do anything in the face of these dramatic and rather abrupt changes to the enviornment. I wonder how they do that? Think the same way as they did before we saw the changes and manage to still think the same way (we need do nothing) after seeing those changes keep occuring? The polar ice cap is shrinking, they say it doesn't really mean anything. Permafrost is perma-defrosting. I guess they think its freezing in winter counts? But it is melting in summer and the amount of energy to effect such a change is awesome. I guess the blogger doesn't notice...summer. The oceans acidify. No biggie. The oceans become filled with jellyfish and not fish. Ah that's normal they say. Supposedly 'conservative' hard boiled no nonsense pragmatists... oddly wax eloquent on sun spots and mayan cycles of time. Have you heard... Mars (lol) is undergoing global warming? And such brilliant logic too...that requiring better gas mileage is an attempt to get our money but wasting high priced gasoline is not? I guess their motto is > Do nothing and show how smart you are. Yep...that's us. Proud to do nothing in the face of disaster! Someone should tell the right wing that Santa drowned when OPEN WATER developed at the north pole. Yes dear right wing...there is no Santa...anymore. We will have to pay...for our destructive toys from here on in. Ah! Santa was probably a commie anyway. Look at that red suit! What does that tell ya? Honey...pass me the jellyfish...I'm hungry.

The only solution to global warming is to stop burning coal, oil and gas for energy - period. These energy sources need to be replaced with solar, wind, biofuels and biochemicals, and energy storage and conservation.

This is a human problem - life is quite robust and will go even if humans go extinct. We might wipe out a lot of other species as well, but nature is really indifferent.

At this moment, there's a certain amount of warming in the pipeline, and we can expect a yearly decreasing trend of Arctic sea ice. Even if we halted all human CO2 emissions this moment, the poles will continue to melt, and the planet will continue to warm, for around 50 years.

So, the extreme weather, crop losses, heat waves, rising sea levels - it's in the post. What we'd like to do is head off the more catastrophic results, by a minimal 90% reduction in CO2 emissions - which can easily be achieved if people and countries mobilize to do so.

However, that will only work on a massive, global scale - meaning that industrial nations need to give the technology to the developing world (where the tropical forests are - and we'd like to see those forests preserved, not burned).

The coal, oil and gas industries and their associated financiers are simply unwilling to change their business models. ExxonMobil gives $10 million to PR front groups, and the American Petroleum Institute gives another $100 million to Edelman PR services...

For a while there, commondreams was refreshingly free of fossil fuel PR trolls - but, as usual, here they are. Took long enough, didn't it?

I really do like you Ike, yeah but I'm not taking any trolling bait either.

Just off the topic for a moment, on tonight's news, this was the report. Half of the people in the United States who have home mortages, HALF, are more than 90 days behind with their payments.

I'm not a wizard, and use a calculator to add anything higher than 2 plus 2, but even as stupid as I am, I sense that report is rather alarmng. I'm goin back to the article titled, Very Scary Things, and then finish stocking my cave.

The chemistry and physics used to support global warming are as good as gold. But there are many misconceptions among the public. Hopefully, the upcoming documentary "the llth hour" will create a more favorable situation.

I've been a good little girl: I compost most of my green rubbish [in Hawaii, I am 'older than dirt!"]; I recycle; I limit my trips to town; and most importantly, I taught my kids to practice birth control.

So, as we face what is, probably, the end of the world as we know it, I have the comfort of knowing I have NO grandchildren. Nada! None!

It is a comfort to know this mess will not impact my very closest loved ones, but think of all the babies who could have been avoided and not been born into this world of pain and suffering! Take a look at those babies in Iraq and ask yourself if the lucky ones are not the ones who never were!

And still we criminalize abortion and women of 60 are encouraged to get pregnant. There is a real issue of responsibility and self control that has been swept under the rug in the bedroom!

Billy, is the nuclear power fratenity interested in making money? Or are they interested in just blithly ignorng the facts, and piling up so much deadly nuclear waste, with a childish "hope" it won't eventually destroy the Earth?

Kem Patrick and others - Here's the much simplified scoop on plankton (from the Conservation Science Institute). As the Gulf stream warms, the plankton move north to follow the heat. Thus the plankton count becomes a marker of the warming. At the moment they are found further north than ever in our lifetimes.

About the methane in the permafrost - news flash, excess of methane in the atmosphere is thought to be the cause of the Permian extinctions (including the dinosaurs). This came about because of warming global temps which thawed the permafrost of that day (sound familiar?) (Not to mention a possible meteor strike.) Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, much more so than CO2.

Thought I should clarify that -

Good comments grandma. I will add, it is known, the phytoplankton are dying off, a ten percent drop in the past few years. There is a scientific group in California who are planning on seeding a large area of the South Pacific with iron dust to feed them. Is that a good idea? We'll find out one way or another if they do it.

There is so much methane frozen in the permafrost, that when it thaws and gets into the atmosphere, it will eventually ignite. That will be doomsday.

RE: Robert Settgast August 10th, 2007 7:32 pm

Thanks for your astute & well expressed comments, Robert. I hope you come back to the CD blog often. I think information dissemination is the key, but also in a manner the MSA (Main Stream Audience) can understand & accept it. Logical, informational, non-confrontational, and simplified works best perhaps, to make the MSA take notice.

RE: grandma August 11th, 2007 12:52 am

Thanks my lady friend for providing some information on plankton I asked about earlier. Makes sense that an organizim that provides so much oxygen would migrate to the most conducive natural environment, AND have an effect on their surrounding environment. Do you remember the study this info came from? I'd like to look at it (probably KEM, too) because it may prove very important.

Actually, the Plankton produce their best in the cooler waters of the South Atlantic and Pacific, naturally some would be carried along with ocean currents, no matter where they flow. Plankton float near or on the suface of the ocean waters, the very word plankton means wanderer; they have no way of determining where they go, so they don't knowlingly follow the heat.

The problem is, they are dying off and no one is sure of why? It is known it was a problem which began years before global warming began to create unusual ice melts in the Arctic and Anarctic. Man made pollution is the most likely cause of their alarming decline in the past few years.

It is a fact that the plant type of plankton, the phytoplankton, supply a water planet with the necessary oxygen to sustain life and therefore are an absolute necessity for a water planet to have any life.

A single Power Tower, will generate enough electrical power, to supply the electrical needs for 10,000 homes and the fuel costs are zero. The pollution emitted is zero. Zero plus zero adds up to zero. I'm gettin smarter every day.

If we used power towers generated electricity to crack sea water to produce hydrogen, the cost to produce the hydrogen would be very low. Pollution from using hydrogen fuel in anything, home heating, vehicles,__ is also zero.

Butttt, let us see just how fast the experts say the permafrost is melting in the Arctic before we spend any money on anything. because if we only have say five to ten years left, I'm gonna open a Viagara pill store and sell bootleg whiskey at the back door to Canuck and his friends. Then move to the Greek Isles and wait for the end and laugh at Chicken little.

all we have to is pray. that will solve everything.

There isn't a human on this Earth that couldn't put a dent this second on the release of co2 into the atmosphre. How? just by using less and reusing things already manufactured.
You body will not boil or freeze unless certain ttempatures are reached.Common outside air still dry clothes.
Hot water is not essential to keep the human body going.
That is only a few anybody can do suggestions without falling off the planet.
Or Soylent Green can really be Tuesday. It is your choice.

Its amazing how some of you can make such vast and far reaching predictions. Its like being on a site full of Nobel laureates.
It may very well be true that there are fundamental changes going on in the earth. Scientists are trying to figure out what is going on. And, if there is something we can do about it, we should all try and do it,

But to hear layman talk with such assurance, and be so full of fear and doom! Where is this from??

Again - I am not trying to say climate change does not exist - what I am saying is that some of you sound far too confident in your knowledge and predictions, without the scientific knowledge base to back it up.

I would like to know if any of you even understand what negative and positive feedback is. A mathematical definition related to system modeling and control theory would be preferrable.

If you cannot, then all you can really do is quote others that can, or relate your own personal experiences and observations about how things are changing.

Moreover, when you quote or read the conclusions that a scientist makes, at least try and look at their data, or their experimental methods and statistical assumptions. In doing so you will far better understand the conclusions.

The truth is that upon further research it might turn out things are not as bad as you all claim, or they might be much worse.

To be full of fear because of a theory or prediction is
absurd. Even if that prediction is your own death.

Lack of knowledge can create fear. Some of you think that fear is the only way to motivate people.
True knowledge gives confidence, therefore I must conclude that many of you do not possess it.