let us not forget that Taliban was financed and created by the CIA despite what dcbeltway says above. By the the way how many Afghans have been granted asylum in the US lately?

Of course Pakistan wants NATO to quit Afghanistan. What could be more obvious when its Pakistan funding and backing the Taliban movement.
Check out the HRW report: http://tinyurl.com/35284g

Let's see - why exactly is it that NATO is in Afghanistan?

NATO is in Afghanistan because George Bush is a drunk and a drug addict who thinks he is god's personal messenger on earth.

Keeping NATO in Afghanistan probably keeps little Georgie from hearing god tell him to nuke the place.

"Mr Kasuri said that Britain in particular should know the limitations of a purely military approach in Afghanistan. "Britain has a good experience of the country, after all they fought three Afghan wars," he said. "Surely they have learnt from that.""

If the greed element and need to convert and control could be removed from human beings, then perhaps we could all learn from history. But after thousands of years of wars and battles among our own and other cultures, we obviously haven't learned very much.

If we refuse to acknowledge our own darkness, we will never see light.

DC BELTWAY:
How clueless can you be?
The whole effort in Afghanistan is a sham.
Bin Laden is gone and the us/nato are bombing the hell out of civilians from the air because they don't have the reources to wage a proper war.
As long as the great incompetent is in power US foreign policy will remain a shambles...in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine...

Excuse me but maybe you are. I'm married to an Afghan, I speak Dari, know alot of Afghans and we don't want to see the Pakistani backed Taliban ruling Afghanistan! My husband after 15 years was finally able to return to Afghanistan to see his parents because of the Karzai government! Of course you probably have never been in a situation like that. Afghanistan isn't Iraq. Go talk to some Afghan Americans and get their opinion. Most are happy they can finally visit their homeland.

I agree with you on Bin Laden. If he is anywhere it is in Pakistan.

I'd also like to add the President Karzai is right when he states that NATO civilian casualties undermine reconstruction efforts. This is true. However, Karzai would agree with me as would most Afghan Americans that in order for Afghan reconstruction to suceed Pakistan and the Taliban need to be kept out of Afghan affairs and this requires security efforts and troops on the ground.

There is no war on terror, and it isn't american business what is going on in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Dcbeltway, afghani-americans might want the empire to invade a country they no longer even live in, but I think the a lot of the people who do live there may think otherwise when their lives are ruined by imperial forces. NATO is not your friend, and a lot of people learn that the hard way.

These people just don't understand we bomb women and childrean for thier own good. distroy thier way of life because ours is better. Our bombs are good bombs,yours are bad bombs.SO THERE.

lo Q. Afghanis are the currency and Afghans are the people. This always makes my husband laugh when people confuse his people with his country's currency.

Plenty of Afghans in Afghanistan would rather have NATO then the Pakistani backed Taliban running their country. My husband's mother who resides in Kabul is one of them along with the rest of his Afghan based family. NATO has made mistakes which I have stated above but lets not confuse Iraq and Afghanistan. There's a Pakistani backed Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan not a popular indigenous based insurgency like in Iraq.

It seems to me there are plenty of people on this board who would prefer Afghanistan to go back to Taliban rule. This is what will happen if we pull out. I am against the Iraq war as is my husband on many grounds. One of the important reason was that it took away funds for reconstruction in Afghanistan and it left NATO in charge. American troops would have done better.

Oh please. There were never any plans to reconstruct anything.

Reconstruction is happening too bad much of the attention and funds were siphoned off for the Iraq war.

http://www.export.gov/afghanistan/

http://www.us-arc.org/

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/scp/2006/60100.htm

Afghan reconstruction is happening.
http://www.export.gov/afghanistan/

http://www.us-arc.org/

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2004/30803.htm

How can you call yourself a liberal and supporter of Human Rights and want to submit the Afghan people to life under the Taliban again? How soon people forget Afghan suffering.

List of things the Taliban banned:
banning all female schools, including female-only schools
banning women from working
banning women from picnic spots or tourist attractions
Banning all profanity, with death penalty by stoning if caught Banning women for showing ankles (punished by whipping)
Banning women from laughing loudly
Banning women from wearing high-heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking.
Banned women from showing their faces (Burqa)
Banned women from traveling outside alone without Mahraam (male relative)
Banning women from riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with relatives or husbands.
Banning women from gathering for festive occasions such as holidays, or for any recreational purposes
Banning women from wearing nail polish.
Banning women from washing clothes next to rivers
Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".
Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.
banning white socks for men
banning leather jackets for men
banning all sports played between late afternoon and evening to avoid disturbing prayers
banning all foreign currency
Banning all film and pictures
Banned TV and VCRs
Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.
Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.
Forced all men (including non-Muslim) to wear beards
Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.
Banning the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed.
Forcing Hindus to wear Hindu ID patches on their clothing
Ordered that all boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".
Banning kite flying
Banned celebrating the Shia new year
Banned the Afghan secular traditional new year celebration Now Ruz
Banning all English language classes
Banning the display of any drawings or sculptures of living things at workplaces

dcbeltway:

Karzai is president of Kabul and nothing else. You are using a standard technique often employed by the Bush administration: citing undesirable characteristics of a government or leader as justification for invasion and slaughter. Husein was bad so the Iraq invasion was good. The Taliban was bad so an air war against Afghan people was good. The fact that your husband is from Afghanistan and supports the invasion means nothing. Timothy McVay was an American. Did that make him an expert on the US and US policy? ("My husband Tim is an American, and he says that all US government buildings should be blown-up.") The majority opinion is that most Afghans outside of Kabul were better off under the oppressive Taliban regime, as bad as it was.

Aymon I agree with many of your points. Not enough aid is getting to the Afghans especially to the rural regions. Afghans were promised schools and other items in some of the smaller towns and rural villages and have not seen anything. Many are still waiting. In the cities for instance Kabul's infrastructure (water, sewage, electricity, roads etc) cannot support millions of people as it once was a city for only 100,000 people. More needs to be done and doing it right will win hearts and minds. Whether we will is the question. You are correct we've given the Afghans peanuts. Afghans were hopeful when they heard they were getting millions in aid and many now feel like they were lied to. They watch the NGO workers in their $25,000 SUV's zipping around Kabul and many feel resentment. NATO is probably not the right ones to do it either but they are what we have at the moment.

Regarding Karzai we feel he is a good man. We know his family well in the community and they are also good people. However, he has little power outside Kabul. One major mistake the US made was putting the War Lords back into power. The War Lords helped the US fight the Taliban but they have an equally horrible track record. My husband would like to see these men brought to justice and tried as War Criminals in a Nuremberg style trial as would most Afghans. The War Lords have committed rape and murder of their own people. These men have benefitted from the growth of opium poppies and drug trade over the years and are major human rights violators. These very same men killed 50,000 people inside Kabul during the Civil War. These men were armed by the CIA to fight the Soviets and later turned their weapons on their own people. My husband had to flee Afghanistan during this time. He was only a teenager. He joined millions and Afghans are the second largest refugee population in the world after the Palestinians who hold first place. Its nearly impossible to find leaders in Afghanistan whose hands are clean.

As for Paxfor all where are you getting the information on Afghan opinion? Was there a survey done? Can you back up that statement? Maybe a few of the Sunni Pashtuns would prefer Taliban rule but my husband is Tajik and the Tajiks found Taliban rule oppressive. The Afghan Hazara people were systematically killed by the Taliban in genocidal fashion in Bamiyan and had their beloved Buddha statues destroyed and the Afghan Uzbeks also do not like the Taliban. A lot of Pashtuns were also against Taliban rule. You should read Afghan American Tamin Ansary's letter from September 13th 2001: http://tcotrel.tripod.com/afghanletter.html

If Junior had done what he was suppose to do and stay there and not get sidetracked by his obsession with Iraq, there would BE no Taliban to deal with. They talk about a war on terror, but let Bin Laden escape to the mountains and then leave too small a force to finish the job.

We have not even begun to finish the job there and if this guy thinks we are leaving he is dreaming. I want troop redeployed from Iraq to there ASAP. We should get those people out of the border regions and end the lives of the trouble makers once and for all.

dcbeltway:

Please see

http://www.muhajabah.com/afghanistan.php

for a number of articles from multiple sources, but there is much more that I don't have at my fingertips. Generally, security is the most important issue for quality of life. Being ruled by murderous warlords and religious zealots, often with as much zeal as the Taliban but with less organization, produces immeasurable misery. This would be like being ruled by the KKK, Michigan Militia, or street gangs in the US. I see nothing to indicate that Karzai isn't a good man, and Kabul is much better off now than under the Taliban, but for the majority of Afghans outside of Kabul, all indications are that life is much, much worse.

dcbeltway is absolutely right in more ways than one.

The Afghans definitely consider NATO/US as lesser of the two evils. Also its extremely inappropriate to claim that somehow the Afghans were better off under the Taliban. Yes, crime was reduced during the Taliban rule but hey crime wasnt much of a problem under the PolPot regime or under Stalin and Mao !! I cannot stand the fact that NATO/US forces are in Afghanistan but in my opinion, if I was Afghan i would prefer that to having the Taliban. Its like choosing between Hillary and Cheney ! Despite both Hillary and Cheney having similar views id probably feel a tad safer under Hillary !! Also dont forget no one was even willing or permitted to talk to the women in Afghanistan to get their opinion !!

The Taliban was aided by the CIA and ISI (Pakistani intelligence) for years. Currently the ISI is hand in glove with the Taliban as it suits Pakistans strategic objectives of containing India and Iran as they consider Afghanistan their sphere of influence. This is exactly why Musharraf signed the border treaty recently giving the Taliban a free hand.

After meddling with and creating this monster (Taliban) its our fucking responsibility to help destroy it, even if it is unpalatable to our delicate liberal palate !!! We need to ensure our forces stop bombing innocent Afghans, we need to completely pressurize Pakistan to stop their insidious support of the Taliban (Obama was right) and we need to make sure our aid to Afghanistan actually reaches the Afghans and not armed militias. We cannot just break somethinmg and walk away and not take responsibility.

Thanks Gyptian for your support! Its definitly an issue of the lesser of two evils. Of course we Americans have been in that situation too.

Everyone let's not forget the Taliban are still holding South Koreans as hostages! Please support Karzai in trying to get those poor folks their freedom!

Afghan Security Ministers explains how Pakistan is supporting the Taliban here:
http://tinyurl.com/22nq4d

It isn't the job of Americans to go places, bomb people & prop up Unocal executives as political figureheads.

We are tired of people coming to the US to urge us us to keep sending our citizens to bomb & kill & torture in order to prevent people from bombing & killing & torturing each other.

The American shore is nowhere near Kabul nor Baghdad nor Tehran nor Jerusalem. The only people who threaten Americans are the lobbyists who hire people from those regions to defend their corporate clients.

Villagers give their feedback on Afghan reconstruction:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6763865.stm

Its true that Karzai and Khalizad were both UNOCAL employees. The Taliban were also brought by UNOCAL to the US under Clinton for negoiations. The Feminist Majority also had a campaign against UNOCAL for negoiating with the Taliban. As far as UNOCAL and the oil companies are concerned they'll get their pipeline no matter who is in charge. They don't really give a damn and their bottom line is the almighty petro-dollar. I much rather see Karzai then the Taliban as this is better for the Afghan people.