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Was Pat Tillman Murdered? AP Gets New Documents
SAN FRANCISCO -- Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.
The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
Among other information contained in the documents:
- In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
- Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
- The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
- No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.
With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.
The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.
In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.
At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."
Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.
"Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It's about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived," she said.
The documents show that a doctor who autopsied Tillman's body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army's Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army's Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.
"He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no," the doctor testified.
Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.
"Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?" an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.
Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.
Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.
© 2007 The Associated Press
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72 Comments so far
Show AllThe system is set on place to continue sending to the grinding war machine the sons and daugthers of the working poor class Americans,since for most of them the only way out ,and the only way to an education is through serving in the military,! what a set up! anyone joining the military in these times and for these kind of wars is a FOOL , just look at Pat`s case and what happened to him and who knows how many others, look at the vets and how they are being denied and taken away benefits, there is no real thanks for serving, instead you get this fake hoorray by flag waving citizens, that consider waving flags a patriotic act, and the news media selling the war in a daily basis and ocacionally a sad soldier story to feed the superficial feeling of doing the right thing. This war in Iraq should be fought by $$ hungry mercenaries as the likes from Black Water and ten other security service companies working in Iraq
to the tune of 180,000 strong private security soldiers{mercenaries}, actually there are only 160,000 American arm forces soldiers in Iraq right now, and 130,000 iraquis soldiers fighting for the security companies as part of the 180,000 private mercenaries, these wars are for the control of the oil and Natural gas resources in the area of Iraq,Iran,Afghanistan , pakistan, and some ex soviet republics like Uzbeckistan which holds huge resources of oil and natural gas, That in a nutshell is your so called WAR on TERROR. There is no nation or group in the world that would dare to attack our mainland, as they know our power. the incidents like 9 11 till this day is nothing but a cover up, to set the stage for Bush to come out looking like a heroe, and to attack our civil rights with the patriot acts and more, Now eight years laters almost, BUSH had the easiest ride as president,by using the news media to keep us distracted and scared to the point where you did not dare question his decisions. So many lives later and so many Billions $$ later , We are still not seeing the whole picture.
If you have a President, Attorney General and government who lies indiscriminately don't be surprised if everyone from there down, lies as well. It is after all, SOP for this administration and they are the example for everyone else.
I have long believed that Pat Tillman was murdered.
The truth regarding this cur, criminal administration continues to slowly, bleed through; even the sold out mainstream media.
It's not too much of a leap from torture, illegal wiretaps,rendention, attacking a innocent and helpless people, crimes against our own CONSTITUTION; too numerous to recount here, to the cold blooded assassination of one young man.
Pat Tillman was not an idiot, a slacked jaw yokel; getting off on killing brown people. He was against the Iraq war and occupation and I believe, deeply ashamed by the horrors done in our name. His voice would be heard around the world; as soon as he could get home. THAT IS WHY HE HAD TO BE STOPPED!
Mendoza mkaes the folliwng (amongh other) bullet points:
*In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."
. . . .
*No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene - no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
Isn't there a contradiction here?
While it seems likely that Tillman was intentionally killed by someone "on our side," let's get the evidence straight.
Well if something looks fishy, it usually is.
Ya got the Stonewall Jackson blues
It's impossible to recreate the events that led to Tilman's death. But no matter how he was killed we can clearly see that the military and the government didn't do their jobs. And the media has let them get away with it. The Tilman incident is the war on terror under a microscope. That's why the military and the government don't want it closely examined. The media it content to go along with the cover-up because of its own vested self-interests.
Hoa binh
How could he have snapped at a comrade while under fire, but then there was no evidence of enemy fire at the scene???
namvet67 July 27th, 2007 2:44 pm
You keep telling yourself that! Three shots to the head!
Has anyone figured out that the citizens need to intervene now? We are at the end here and these executions will become common and we will have that martial law!
Hey Chico,
You're spot on about the Bush crime family, but there are other players in that game, too. They are not like us or do they like us. The sooner we understand and accept that, the better off we all will be.
How can anybody that has empathy and compassion in their heart be responsible for the actions the Bushies have undertaken? You know how I ascertain what is true nowadays? I see what Bush & Friends have to say and then I know the opposite is the truth.
Pat Tillman was murdered because he was waking up to the reality of Iraq and the snow job we are getting from Bush and the lap dog major media outlets. Bunch of little Nero's, while Pat Tillman was going to be a hero.
Wake up America . . . Wake up world . . . The clock is ticking . . .
So Congress needs to give all the Army personnel associated with this (from grunts to generals)a "Monica" (grant of immunity) so they might actually be given a chance to tell the truth about who did it (and just as importantly who was behind the cover-up)and why this criminal act was handled as it was.
Maybe Mr. Forgetful 3 star retired general (seems to have contracted "Alberto disorder") could be sent to Gitmo for VIP treatment to see if it refreshes his memory any.
NormVincent--I agree with your lack of any regret for Tillman because he was a big boy who knew (or should have known) what he was getting into. However, this is about the accessories to a ruthless cold-blooded murder and those bastards deserve to be exposed and gone after with everything that can be thrown at them.
Why would a General be punished?
Why should any of these spineless kiss-ass Generals who rose through the ranks being gutless kiss-asses be punished now? Simply because they lied and most likely covered up a murder of an extremely talented, courageous and dedicated American soldier. After all they were only following orders. As we all know these are the only type of Generals who get promoted by the Bush administration. True military leaders would have called B…S… on this phony Orwellian war immediately and faced the consequences.
Let's be fair these military geniuses (the Generals in the Bush Administration) only get Steak and Lobster 2 or 3 times a week which we pay KBR (the Halliburton spin-off) $300.00 per meal. They were probably glad to get the extra Steak and Lobster dinner.
How can we possibly be losing this war??
Freedom Loving American July 27th, 2007 3:09 pm
We are not loosing the war since Iraq is a staging area for bigger operations. For 5 years the US has been training and equipping the Iraqis to attack Iran in concert. If Iraq was "won" then we wold have no reason to stay! The have a "bigger" plan and it is not going to stop
sh@dow July 27th, 2007 3:19 pm
You are wise sh@dow.
Thanks for your comment.
I think the bigger issue is: You wanna play with Guns? You think joining the Military is 'cakewalk'? You want to kill other people for $$$ ? You want to 'volunteer' for a Offensive War of Agression? you wanna...
I have no sympathy for such men, regardless of Nationality, nor for the Brainwashing 'Education' that seems to produce them in droves. Give it up. This One - like thousands of others 'played soldier', and Lost big Time.
The bushes killed Tillman. they killed JFK and RFK. They killed John Lennon. They started both world wars. They did 911.
If it interfered with the progress of the human race, those satanists did it. And you won't see me getting sued for libel, because they know I know I can prove it all.
Removing the bushes from the playing field, and seizing all the assets they have built for the M/I complex will free the species. Period.
If you believe in justice, you'll have to explain to me how Pat Tillman can be dead while Michael Vick is still alive.
He was fragged because he took chances that the others in his unit resented.
Whatever it was, I guarantee you Rumsfeld knew everything
Actually, I think Rob Kall's speculation is more interesting: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_070727_did_bush_admin_order.htm
I would put the GOP to do anything anymore. Pat Tillman was turning against the Iraq invasion which he openly said was "!@#$ illegal" and was taking steps to become an anti-war soldier - a major threat to the Bushies and their Corporate sponsors of the misadventure, given his high-profile status. He had to be silenced.
I have heard that he was increasingly disgruntled and vocal about the vaunted "war on Terror" and he was getting fed up with the bullship mission and the invasion of Iraq. He joined up to get at those who pulled off 911, and he wasn't seeing much progress on getting Bin Laden. Being a high profile volunteer, him coming out and questioning what was going on, and speaking from experience, now that he had served, was not going to play well for bushcon.
Dead men tell not tales. Dead men ask no embarassing questions.
it seems likely he was killed because he was high profile and disaproved of the invasion of iraq.
Tillman is dead. More dead ahead. The M/I complex wants dominance in the oil producing countries at any cost. Without oil US is a third-world power subject to periodic and chaotic supply disruptions. The 3-4 thousand americans killed is nothing in their minds compared to the horrors of Islamic oil control. Energy-Water-Oil the very basics of an advanced society must be secured at any cost. There is no real hope here absent a revolutionary change in the corporate mission of world domination US style. There is no hope for diplomacy and the 2008 elections are a small distraction that the M/I will handle. Who can save the world???
This version of the story has completely cut out the earlier release in which the soldier who was panicking initially divulged to a quopted source that he had panicked and that Pat Tillman had told him to stop sniveling ...that quote is not included in its entirety in this story nor is the later version the same soldier gave which completely omits the Pattonesque comment by Tillman and in which the soldier claims an entirely different last few moments scenario and interaction...
it is horrific that we have the mixed up messed up armed forces situation in which cowards murder their own comrades under fire...
what a wreck our nation is
"Well if something looks fishy, it usually is."
first post says it all
David Bailey, you should be a lawyer! That went right by me.
How many generals have been retired/reassigned etc for being honest about this invasion/occupation? I think of all the generals that disagreed with Hitler and their fate.
Another reason to bring the troops home and end the war now.
Stop the Killing Now
Officers usually get blamed because they failed, not to prevent the action,like Tillman's murder, but failed to cover it up. This administration is the mafia, our military officers are their goons and our enlisted men and women are their pawns.
... "Pat Tillman is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."
Empty GITMO today and start filling it up w/real War Criminals. But don't give them a trial for at least 10yrs.
Three shots to the forehead, wow that insurgent was a hell of a shot, right? what a bunch of bull, it surely took a long time to get to the truth. General what's his name should be taken down to Coronel!
Who the hell cares about another dead soldier?
Soldiers are war criminals too.
Kill them all, for all America cares.
It looks like some grunt is about to be made a scapegoat in Tillman's murder even though the facts still don't add up. I wish Tillman's family would join forces with Cindy Sheehan to expose the criminal government we are being forced to endure. Enough!
If interested, see "The Tillman Files" at www.fromthewilderness.com
"The crimes of this Administration are more serious and vile by orders of magnitude than the mere imagined assassination of one young man.
"The greatest crimes are facilitated not through arms (which are employed when other means fail, and which are as plentiful as they are odious), but by the banal wordsmiths of the legal, financial, and administrative realms. The war that Pat Tillman said was "so fucking illegal" is but one aspect, like a superficial lesion in a metastatic cancer, of a system that is now slaughtering millions through external debt, medical neglect, malnutrition, rape of the environment, imprisonment, mis-education, mass exodus, arms sales, and is now flirting with nuclear war. The Bush Administration has moved our whole society decisively into the final stage of imperialism: Exterminism, the acceptance of mass death as the price of doing business.
"That Pat Tillman died wearing the uniform of the Imperium is just another historical irony. I wore it, too. It's where some of us had to go to learn."
Stan Goff - The Tillman Files
www.fromthewilderness.com
"Fragging" was common during the Vietnam War. A leader who did not look after the welfare of his troops stood a chance of having a fragmentation grenade thrown in his hooch by his own men, or shot by his own troops in the field. Three bullets to the forehead is too much of a coincidence for it to have been enemy fire. It would take three simultaneous shots at long distance. Not even Oswald could have pulled that one. It has to be an agreed upon execution.
Just goes to show that if you are making 3 mil don't go being cannon fodder
I think that they will find the three shots came from an M-16 with the fire selector set on "burst", or three shells expended everytime you pull the trigger. I am encouraged by some on this posts compassion for Tillman and his family. After the hateful things said about him being an "idiot", ect. on the Ted Rall article from two days ago, I had about given up.
"Mounting evidence that football star Pat Tillman, who famously gave up a high-paying pro career to sign up as an Army Ranger and fight Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, may have been assassinated in a high-level conspiracy to prevent him from returning to the US as a prominent war critic should make even hardened military people question orders from their commander in chief, particularly if those orders involve arresting or shooting American citizens. Tillman, it is now known, had turned strongly against the war in Iraq as early as late 2003, and was telling his platoon to vote against Bush. There are reports too that he was contacting war critics like Noam Chomsky from Afghanistan about coming out as a war critic in 2004--a prospect which must have terrified the war-mongers in the White House and Pentagon."
from:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/25158
I read he had been talking to Noam Chomsky and had a meeting set up for when he got home. Oh you just know they couldn't have their poster boy defecting to the other side like that! Sort of surprised that Jessica Lynch is still breathing...
Pat Tillman and Paul Wellstone. How many others?
The poor guy fell for the "New Pearl Harbor" [9/11/2001] cooked up and executed by the neo-con's. This was the response they [the neo-cons] were hoping for by doing 9/11. Get the country worked up and angry enough to support a war on people of their choosing.
Bush being so stupid and so much evidence to prove that 9/11 was an inside job has fianlly exposed things for what they are. This isn't the country we were all brought up to believe it was. Thanks to G.W. Bush and a lot of investigation by people in the private sector the monster has been exposed. Hopefully we can bring it down and get a second chance to make things right.
We have an administration that in some way was responsible for the murders of over 3,000 innocent people to further a political agenda. The Anthrax killings also. Since then they lied us into an aggressive attack and illegal occupation that has killed nearly one million people.
And you think they'd stop a killing a man that was about to rain all over their parade just before an election?
Let this be very clear, if we do not hold these cretins accountable for the heinous and treasonous crimes they have committed, summary executions will become the norm on our own streets very shortly.
And of you think I'm being alarmist, you don't know squat about history, civics, recent events or the depths to which man can sink.
Some of our posters seem as confused as the General who is suffering from amnesia. End the War! AND KILL ALL THOSE ROTTEN GRUNTS WHILE YOU'RE AT IT.
Man! Talk about rational, compassionate, thought processes!
It is nothing less then a tragedy when brave men are killed. It is nothing less then a travesty of justice when they are murdered by the very Government they thought it was their duty to defend.
Disagree with Tillman's decision to sign up?
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean he is less heroic then all the dead in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the other death zones we sent our best and brightest off to die in! [I am including our 'opponents' in that statement.
God save the poor human specie, we seem incapable of doing anything positive... [That's assuming there is a god who cares, of course]
All this is too complicated and confusing. I will reserve judgement till the TV movie comes out during sweeps. Who do you suppose will play the Tillman character?
Those of you who wonder how Pat could have said anything "under fire" when there is no evidence of enemy fire are missing the obvious. It was friendly fire they were under. There have been other reports of them yelling at the guys shooting at them that they were American soldiers. The fire episode went on for a short while before he was finally killed.
Questions:
Where is Pat Tillman's head? Was it "disappeared," like JFK's brain?
According to first reports, Tillman's head was "blown off" by massive "friendly fire." Then how did THREE military docs find THREE close bullet holes in his (intact) forehead?
Was the head-blown-off story circulated AFTER those doctors made their report, all the better to steal Pat's head and burn it like they burned his personal effects? Did the Tillman family receive a headless corpse?
This all sounds soooooo typical of the cheneybushsluts. And to think my psychic daughter warned us circa 2000 that she saw "blood, and fangs" in bushslut's mouth...and horns on his head.
Okay, I was totally wrong about Tillman. Didn't know what I know now and I apologize.
To say that Tillman was respected as a soldier is hard to believe when he was vocal that the Iraq war was a huge illegal mistake and took our eyes off the ball in Afghanistan.
The average American soldier is republican and the country does no wrong - and if it does, it is to increase America's god given share in the world - because by god everything America does is rightious. What crap - but that is the American soldier.
I spent last year in Iraq as a soldier and was amazed that otherwise good people that I had know for years in the Guard were self rightious, follow America anywhere hacks of our democracy. I was ostracised and left in the wind - no matter how good my skills and how well I dealt with events. I saw so many overreactions by my fellow soldiers to Iraqi threat that had to wonder what the younger crowd of fresh recruits were thinking. It is scary thought - and these are the troops that interact directly with the Iraqi.
I am sure Tillman was in that same boat. Hated, truly, for his free thinking. Hated enough for someone to put three bullets in his skull - that a hard one but the evidence is pointing in that direcion.
Maybe it wasn't hatred that caused someone to shoot him, but the fact that he was a celebrity speaking out, when those in control were trying to keep any dissent from the public (not allowing photographs of casualties and coffins, etc).... maybe they had him killed to silence him..
Still, it's hard to believe that out of an entire group of people who were there, there isn't a single soul whose conscience wouldn't propel him/her to tell the truth (then again, maybe they weren't in on it and it appeared to be an accident)....
They'll never know.