The looming collapse of the US military in Iraq, of which a number of generals and former generals, including former Chief of Staff Colin Powell, have warned, is happening none too soon, as it my be the best hope for preventing military rule here at home.
From the looks of things, the Bush/Cheney regime has been working assiduously to pave the way for a declaration of military rule, such that at this point it really lacks only the pretext to trigger a suspension of Constitutional government. They have done this with the active support of Democrats in Congress, though most of the heavy lifting was done by the last, Republican-led Congress.
The first step, or course, was the first Authorization for Use of Military Force, passed in September 2001, which the president has subsequently used to claim‹improperly, but so what that the whole world, including the US, is a battlefield in a so-called ‘War’ on Terror, and that he has extra-Constitutional unitary executive powers to ignore laws passed by Congress. As constitutional scholar and former Reagan-era associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein observes, that one claim, that the US is itself a battlefield, is enough to allow this or some future president to declare martial law, ’since you can always declare martial law on a battlefield. All he’d need would be a pretext, like another terrorist attack inside the U.S.’
The 2001 AUMF was followed by the PATRIOT Act, passed in October 2001, which undermined much of the Bill of Rights. Around the same time, the president began a campaign of massive spying on Americans by the National Security Agency, conducted without any warrants or other judicial review. It was and remains a program that is clearly aimed at American dissidents and at the administration’s political opponents, since the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court would never have raised no objections to spying on potential terrorists. (And it, and other government spying programs, have resulted in the government’s having a list now of some 325,000’suspected terrorists’!)
The other thing we saw early on was the establishment of an underground government-within-a-government, though the activation, following 9-11, of the so-called ‘Continuity of Government’ protocol, which saw heads of federal agencies moved secretly to an underground bunker where, working under the direction of Vice President Dick Cheney, the ‘government’ functioned out of sight of Congress and the public for critical months.
It was also during the first year following 9-11 that the Bush/Cheney regime began its programs of arrest and detention without charge‹mostly of resident aliens, but also of American citizens‹and of kidnapping and torture in a chain of gulag prisons overseas and at the Navy base at Guantanamo Bay.
The following year, Attorney General John Ashcroft began his program to develop a mass network of tens of millions of citizen spies‹Operation TIPS. That program, which had considerable support from key Democrats (notably Sen. Joe Lieberman), was curtailed by Congress when key conservatives got wind of the scale of the thing, but the concept survives without a name, and is reportedly being expanded today.
Meanwhile, last October Bush and Cheney, with the help of a compliant Congress, put in place some key elements needed for a military putsch. There was the overturning of the venerable Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which barred the use of active duty military inside the United States for police-type functions, and the revision of the Insurrection Act, so as to empower the president to take control of National Guard units in the 50 states even over the objections of the governors of those states.
Put this together with the wholly secret construction now under way–courtesy of a $385-million grant by the US Army Corps of Engineers to Halliburton subsidiary KBR Inc–of detention camps reportedly capable of confining as many as 400,000 people, and a recent report that the Pentagon has a document, dated June 1, 2007, classified Top Secret, which declares there to be a developing ‘insurgency’ within the U.S, and which lays out a whole martial law counterinsurgency campaign against legal dissent, and you have all the ingredients for a military takeover of the United States.
As we go about our daily lives–our shopping, our escapist movie watching, and even our protesting and political organizing we need to be aware that there is a real risk that it could all blow up, and that we could find ourselves facing armed, uniformed troops at our doors.
Bruce Fein isn’t an alarmist. He says he doesn’t see martial law coming tomorrow. But he is also realistic. He says, ‘This is all sitting around like a loaded gun waiting to go off. I think the risk of martial law is trivial right now, but the minute there is a terrorist attack, then it is real. And it stays with us after Bush and Cheney are gone, because terrorism stays with us forever.’ (It may be significant that Hillary Clinton, the leading Democratic candidate for president, has called for the revocation of the 2002 Authorization for Use of Military Force against Iraq, but not of the earlier 2001 AUMF which Bush claims makes him commander in chief of a borderless, endless war on terror.)
Indeed, the revised Insurrection Act (10. USC 331-335) approved by Congress and signed into law by Bush last October, specifically says that the president can federalize the National Guard to ’suppress public disorder’ in the event of ‘national disorder, epidemic, other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident.’ That determination, the act states, is solely the president¹s to make. Congress is not involved.
Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has added an amendment to the upcoming Defense bill, restoring the Insurrection Act to its former version‹a move that has the endorsement of all 50 governors–but Fein argues that would not solve the problem, since Bush still claims that the U.S. is a battlefield. Besides, a Leahy aide concedes that Bush could sign the next Defense Appropriations bill and then use a signing statement to invalidate the Insurrection Act rider.
Fein argues that the only real defense against the looming disaster of a martial law declaration would be for Congress to vote for a resolution determining that there is no ‘War’ on terror. ‘But they are such cowards they will never do that,’ he says.
That leaves us with the military.
If ordered to turn their guns and bayonets on their fellow Americans, would our ‘heroes’ in uniform follow their consciences, and their oaths to ‘uphold and defend’ the Constitution of the United States? Or would they follow the orders of their Commander in Chief?
It has to be a plus that National Guard and Reserve units are on their third and sometimes fourth deployments to Iraq, and are fuming at the abuse. It has to be a plus that active duty troops are refusing to re-enlist in droves especially mid-level officers.
If we are headed for martial law, better that it be with a broken military. Maybe if it’s broken badly enough, the administration will be afraid to test the idea.
Dave Lindorff’s most recent book is “The Case for Impeachment” (St. Martin’s Press, 2006). His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net.
The final sentence in the article is a subject for serious thought. The suggestion is rational thinking.
“Maybe if it’s broken enough___(our military)___ the administration will be afraid to test the idea”.
That final sentence is rational thinking __ if our president and vice president were rational thinkers. They have proven to be otherwise and therefore, they put all of us and our country in peril.
I used to be a dissident but that was before I realized what great men Messrs. Bush and Cheney are. I studied the Bible, accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and I have resolved to send a monthly check to the Republican National Committee each month to keep me out of prison…I mean to support the Noble War on Terror. Seig heil, mein fuhrer, seig heil! (I think in English that means Long live the President or something like that). Bye for now - I’m going out to wave the flag at passing cars and to shout that God hates faggots, just in case our military isn’t broken. (It isn’t; the Air Force and Navy are doing fine and are just getting cranked up). Seig heil!
Well, we know Bush is irrational, but I suspect Cheney is rational, even if he is evil. If he thought martial law could fail or backfire, he would probably hold back.
Dave, those of us who openly mock the POTUS are counting on you being right.
You Nazi traitor Ron, I knew it. I’m gonna hide instead, get a sex change operation and go to Paraguay.
Our National Guard is busy guarding another nation, as is much of our regular military.
It will be private Blackwater blackshirts that enforce martial law. They don’t even have to be American citizens, just people who are willing to shoot and torture Americans for money.
It could be another terrorist attack that sets it off, or a natural disaster (creeping martial law, one ravaged urban area at a time), or public disturbances or rioting or peace marches following imposition of a draft or our nuking of various countries.
Or even Cheney’s final defense against being impeached.
RE: ‘IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE?’ - SCAREY…BUT IRRESPONSIBLE.
This is frightening - but, imo, at the very least Mr. Lindorff should have provided links supporting the real-world-threat of the nightmare scenarios he lists.
This is easily done (e.g., the columns of Frank Rich), and links take up no additional space, just turn a word or two blue - then readers can both educate themselves and form a greater, fact-opinion-based pov.
Readers familiar with my posts know that I am with Mr. Lindorff on pressing for impeachment NOW.
BUT, imo, progressives absolutely must be informed, and the effect of this list of hair-raising, proto-putsch acts by a proto-fascist right - despite Lindorff’s “Fein…says he doesn’t see martial law coming tomorrow” caveat - is to frighten readers into a point of view.
As I’ve said before, I’m sure there is a black Op, loaded and cocked, to be used the minute the Cheney/Bush gang feels they are about to go down. I imagine the Congress will fall for it like they did Tonkin.
I don’t think Cheney/Bush would balk at sinking one of our ships to bring on a war, or they might target a liberal city, but that will be the trigger for martial law and expanded war.
Remember, we are dealing with the lowest of the low, the true bottom feeders in the cesspool that is our government.
Don’t forget Blackwater et al.
George Orwell was right.
One part of our government lies to us, and the other part allows the lie to go unchallenged. I guess that is the American way.
Now we have a private army that rivals our own (and we helped pay for it). What do you think they will do after (and if) the Iraq war ends?
www.NotOneMore.US
“I’d rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don’t want, and get it.” - Eugene Debs
When I saw the title of the article I assumed that the writer was referring to Bush/Cheney declaring martial law in the US….
Not at all out of the question, from what I can see.
As Pogo once said “We have met the enemy and he is us!’
P.S.
Dave forgot to mention the executive order Bush signed last week about confication of personal property that is so losely worded, anyone who is critical of his actions stands to lose all material goods.
curmudgeon, it’s amazing this executive order has not recieved more attention. It’s absolutely terrifying to think of the power this lunatic gives himself, and even more terrifying that nobody does anything to stop him! I can’t find one msm link to this, it’s just been swept under the rug but you can find it in it’s entirety, clear as day, on the White House site.
As usual there is the defeatist attitude of a mass of people unwilling to take responsibility for their own freedom. If we are to have military rule it is better that it be with a broken military?
No where do I hear any talk of a solution or the will to resist. At all. So yes you will have martial law because you are already cowed and acting as though it were already imposed.
You people make me ashamed of my american heritage. And you remind me of why it is that so many of us cant stand each other. I despise wimps and sell outs. Especially those who affect me.
Give up your freedom and hide under the bed as I have said here before no one is coming to save you. The lack of effort on your part makes any effort on my part a waste of my time.
Do you see where being so soft and scared gets you?
Damn those people who fought King George really did waste their time.
Would you like fries with your dictatorship?
Or maybe just write more surrender articles.
Who are the surrender monkeys now? The same as they always were Americans. Soft, greedy, self centered, uneducated and incapacitated by the likes of this administration.
Wow! What a waste.
Democracy is in our bones. It’s been with us for many generations. I have faith that when the time comes, it won’t matter how much authority the Bush Crime Family has given themselves. The American People will not lay down under military law (even if Blackwater led) and go quietly from democracy to dictatorship.
I think it unfortunate that this is what it will take for the citizencry to finally wake up and fight. Nonetheless, the revolution will begin and we will start to save ourselves.
When the time comes, it’ll be Blackwater and other loyalbushie mercs, not US soldiers, attempting to enforce martial law upon 300 million of the most heavily armed citizens in the world.
Good luck. I’m off to the practice range…
I hear Blackwater is hiring and that the pay is awesome! I hear the benefits are great too, as long as you don’t get hurt….
We on the left may come to appreciate the Second Amendment…
Lindorff: good piece. It’s nice to see you participating in the comments, too.
I grew up in South Dakota, which makes me proficient with firearms, though I loathe them and don’t currently own one. I think I’ll head over to the Freepers’ threads and see what those lunatics recommend for arms in a diffuse (sub-/ex-)urban insurgency.
The only thing we’ll have to fear is the cowardice of our fellow countrymen. It’ll then be fight or flight. So let’s be gentlemen, and quit beating around the bush. Fear-mongering doesn’t do anyone any good.
But let’s make a dry-run thought experiment:
If our military service men and women were ordered to surround American cities even if they began to starve, powerful businesses (with a lot of lobbying clout) collapsed, potentially shoot their own families/relatives, etc. it’s not unreasonable to conclude that they’d refuse, the military would splinter into factions going straight to the top. And probably some recently-retired brass would come out of retirement on the side of the people.
While I have no doubt that Bush & Co. would adore a new fascism, it’s extremely unlikely it would occur without plunging the US into Civil War.
I find it interesting that no one seems to recall that September 11, 2001 was primary day in New York City. The polls had been open a while when the first plane hit the first tower. Anyone remember what happened? They stopped the election, closed the polls, threw out the ballots that had been cast. There was a giant “do-over” later in the month, but at the time, we only had the word of the election commission that there’d be a rescheduled vote.
The military would not refuse to do this, just like there are no police officers who refuse to beat, poison, and arrest peaceful protestors. Those people are far-right psychopaths who would immediately swallow whatever propaganda is needed to back up a military dictatorship just like they did in Iraq.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Instead of martial law I would favor a military coup along the lines of the Thai military, which we trained and armed. Get those crminals out of D.C. and replace them with honest Americans.
Hoa binh
They can’t lock us ALL up at ONCE!
They can NEVER vanquish the TRUE AMERICANS that will NEVER accept this fascist hell they inflict upon us.
The more wrongs they committ against humanity, the more they know that the inevtiable approaches- it’s TRUE- the PEOPLE are PISSED, and check it out: they don’t have enough money to build all the detention centers required for tens of millions of OUTRAGED CITIZENS.
What happened to my post about the DeFazio/DHS flare-up and the Terrorism Drills being held in Portland, OR in August and October? If too long, that’s cool, but I am bummed I wasn’t notified.
The letter we sent to DeFazio this week asked, in light of the secrecy he met when trying to probe DHS about Bush’s “Continuity of Government” plans, would Congressman DeFazio endorse a Portland Citizens’ Oversight committee that could be involved in negotiations and preparations for the drills.
It is accessible at http://911blogger.com/node/10213#comment-155694.
If people have constructive ideas regarding how Portland might respond to what could be a “perfect storm of terror, treason and totalitarianism,” as a cohort aptly phrased it, please contact me here, or through the Portland Impeachment network, via AfterDowningStreet.org.
Thanks,
Styve
I wouldn’t give them so much credit. For one thing, you’re only encouraging them, paralyzing a would-be resistance before this scenario even presents itself, and predicting a breakdown or cleavage IN THE WRONG PLACE.
A martial law would cleave our society into more than one military. There are people who serve because of a deeply-rooted committment to protect this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Fascisms like Nazism require its totalitarian leader to be widely adored by young and old, trusted, holding masssive public rallies, etc. They require large-scale buy-in. They also provided something in return — rebuilding a shredded economy, improving morale, etc. Bush has done none of these things. They miscalculated before, on, and after 9/11.
As for cops, I guess it depends on whether you’ve known any as neighbors, friends, or relatives. Not perfect, they span the whole range. But they are real people, they are citizens. To insist that they beat us over the heads when martial law declared is an invitation to lose. Rather, I see some retired generals coming out of the woodwork, large portions of the military, and many local law enforcement coming to the aid of a faltering country. If they don’t, I’ll take a long hike to Nunavut.
I forgot where I got this on the web, but someone on another site said that it may have been a quote by Ray McGovern…it is on point with the rise of Bush Fascism…
—————————
Ignore. That’s what the vast majority of Germans did in the 1930s as Hitler curtailed civil liberties and launched aggressive wars. I was born in August 1939, a week before Hitler sent German tanks into Poland to start World War II. I have studied that crucial time in some detail. And during the five years I served in Germany I had occasion to ask all manner of people how it could possibly be that, highly educated and cultured as they were, the Germans for the most part could simply ignore. Why was it that the institutional churches, Catholic and Evangelical Lutheran, could not find their voice? Why was it that so few spoke out?
A few did … and they provide good example for us today. Lutheran Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer spoke out, plotted against Hitler, and was executed. Also executed was a more obscure but equally courageous professor from the University of Berlin, Albrecht Haushofer.
Like Bonhoeffer, Haushofer was arrested for speaking out. The SS prison guards were required to extract a confession from prisoners before they were hanged or shot, but Haushofer refused. When they removed his body, though, a paper fell out of his pocket. It was his admission of guilt written in the form of a sonnet:
Schuld
…schuldig bin ich Anders als Ihr denkt.
Ich musste früher meine Pflicht erkennen;
Ich musste schärfer Unheil Unheil nennen;
Mein Urteil habe ich zu lang gelenkt…
Ich habe gewarnt,
Aber nicht genug, und klar;
Und heute weiß ich, was ich schuldig war.
Guilt
I am guilty,
But not in the way you think.
I should have earlier recognized my duty;
I should have more sharply called evil evil;
I reined in my judgment too long.
I did warn,
But not enough, and clear;
And today I know what I was guilty of.
If false flag, was it as successful as they’d hoped? No, they enjoyed a relatively brief blip — arguably smaller than what the Democrats enjoyed under LBJ and Vietnam/Tonkin.
They’ve long since created a fickle, cynical and forgetful populace and it worked against them. It would take lots of 9/11’s. But therein is the rub — they’d lose that way even more quickly since the public would see how poorly they protect us. Many large American businesses, some which have been very influential politically, also, would suffer.
Best way for a fascism to succeed is to bribe each and every one of us with genuine properity. But since the Shrub is wrecking the middle-class rather than giving them reason for adoration, his stab at the unitary amounted to a dolchstoss in his own agenda.
I say bring it on! Whatever will cause our lazy asses to hit the streets in number, BRING IT ON!!
Hey Ron, you Nazi sympathizer. Get out of our country. Or better yet, drive on down to the deep south and hoot your horn. No, Americans have Democracy in their bones, and will not stand for martial law. Why would the President enforce martial law when he can’t even make a dent in Iraq? Sounds to me too many writers are joining the propaganda pact and spreading unnecessary terror as well.
Speaking of Police and there support for Bush Cheney Facism/ Marshall Law. I was State Police for 25 yrs. retired. I wouldn’t walk across the street for either of these scum. I believe they should be tried for war crimes and war profiteering. Unfortunately, I predict that 75% to 95% would follow Marshall Law Directives when asked. If there was time, confronting police with these issues and giving them time to work these issues over would lower the compliance ratio.
Dave Lindorf speaks about much of the buzz that can be read in the pages of commondreams, especially the comments section. We are all increasingly aware of the potential for Martial Law, and that thought is chilling indeed. No doubt the detention camps will have special wings devoted to commondreams bloggers.
I’m astounded and prompted to write in response to articles like this, because it is well thought out and yet lacks the proper context for us to understand what we are really dealing with. Dave does mention, that to end this fiasco, the “War on Terror” must be renounced, and legislation must pass declaring that it no longer exists. I give him credit for that.
To do that, to kill the dragon, we must examine what most of us have glazed over in our minds, the truth about 9/11. The truth about 9/11 is that it was planned and executed by the US Military, enabled and covered up by the Bush Administration and the MSM. The War on Terror is based upon a lie, the only way to defeat a lie is with the truth. The Controlled Demolition of the Twin Towers and Building 7, are in fact, all the evidence that we need to begin to unravel the dark path being taken by our government since that fateful day. In horror, it is like a snuff film, absolute evidence of murder. Yes planes did hit the world trade center, but they did not CAUSE the collapse. They are seperate events, confused by the lies contained within the “official story.”
Much can be said about all aspects of the Traitorist Attacks that day, but I focus on the Controlled Demolition aspect of the tragedy because it is factual and irrefutable. It is irrefutable once you understand the numerous laws of nature being broken, simulatiously during the collapse of the first tower. Then repeated exactly the same for the second tower. Building 7 is so obvious, that you need to ask yourself what evidence was so important to destroy, that you take that kind of blatant risk being discovered outright. The debate is not whether or not I’m right, it is whether or not you have the courage to solve the mystery and find the truth for yourself. For myself, it was a revelation, and I will never see the world the same again.
To see from the point of view that the attacks were on purpose, and came from within the US, is altering in every way possible. I call it the “corrective lense,” because it can be used to properly sift through the fog of propaganda that has most people missing the point entirely. We are still stuck in the world of reason, pre-9/11, and incapable of believing that such a monsterous crime could be committed. Our trust in the very institutions sworn to protect us, how could they have so thouroughly betrayed us, and for what?
It makes the points of Dave’s article somewhat understandable, and predictable. It means that this is all going according to plan. The flaw in this article’s thinking is that the military is “broken.” It is far from that. The fact that the troops are being abused, is all part of the plan, consistent with the bigger picture. How do you fix the broken army? That’s too easily twisted to mean; more money, more bodies (the draft) and more perpetual war.
The bigger picture is that the War on Terror is WW3, framed to be a perpetual war that will consume the worlds resources until only the Army and the world’s super-rich can survive. Pre-emptive War (Code:War of Agression) based upon mere suspicion (no reason what-so-ever) is the doctrine of Fascistic Empire. 9/11 spawned the worst crimes imaginable, and if history will ever serve us, Bush & Co. will go down as absolutely the worst crew of traitors to the human species ever born. (That being said, there is no SATAN, no evil. It is only man, without regard for the consequences of his actions. Irresposible and adolscent.)
George Orwell properly understood what political forces would do, once an opportunity for hegemony appeared. The ruling class takes permenent hold of power over the middle class and the proletariat lower class. (Orwell describes the proles as too consumed with their own survival to even be able to effectively cope with the workings of government. Sounds like most of us and more and more with each day) The oppression of Totalitarinism is the war waged by the government against its own citizens. The spoils and purpose of this suffering is to sustain “the very fabric of society” (of the ruling class) itself.
Do not be fooled. The ruling class will not willingly relinquish power.
“The corrective lens” allows us to see that any candidate now running for presidential office in 2008 is actively a part of the problem. Otherwise, they would confront the truth about 9/11 in their campaign. They would renounce the War On Terror and accuse the Bush Administration with Treason. They would offer an alternative to continuous war. Both Hillary and Obama are warmongers and interested in power, not truth.
Every piece of legislation is consistent with a permanent powergrab by the ruling class. From tax breaks forever insuring wealth to the wealthy, to the destruction of education, healthcare and robust middle-class, everything is going as planned. Mega profits from the invasions in the middle-east are first steps in fortifying the “Global War of Treason.”
There is no “green movement” until you confront militarism and the truth about 9/11. That is why Rosie O’Donnel has more to say than Al Gore. Rosie speaks of Building 7, while Al intellectually describes nothing with the notion of Rigorous Accountablity and the Assault on Reason. Rigorous Accountablity means facing 9/11. The Assault on Reason, should be The Assault of Treason. Al Gore will fail again. He is failing now.
When Dick Cheney says a vote for a democrat is likely to increase the terrorist threat, I take him for his word, but I hear it like he is threatening us personally. He is an architect of treason, and we can expect more.
When you talk about racially profiling “terrorists,” profile angry old white men in suits, they are more dangerous than any Muslim Scapegoat.
There is no health care, education, infra-structure, debt relief, clean energy or anything else that may have to do with the solution. The deck is stacked. The dice are loaded. The change is loose. Impeachment is a distraction from immediate removal and incarceration under emergency powers against high treason.
Instead we will have more dead humans and more hellish ways to make them that way, thanks to the weapons industry. The debate is as it has always been, how to murder more efficiently and who will be a better murderer-in-chief. I’m personally afraid of the mircowave murder dish that frys you from the inside out and is going to be used in crowd control, perhaps in round ups of large groups.
The mission of the military is murder. They need a new mission.
Want to stop the war, deal with the nightmare truth.
“The War on Terror” is illegitimate and does not exist. It is a crime, and the criminals need to be held to account for treason, war crimes and crimes against humanity.
How tragic if human civilization succumbs to such an obvious and weak minded lie. A bad trick. That failure will rest in all of our hands, conscious and unconscious alike. It is up to those of us who know, to spread the word and to document the truth outside of the MSM record of deceit.
I believe we have a chance, like never before, to end the madness.
As of yet, however, it is still up to you and I, to become the real leaders that will punch a way out of this mess. We are all patriotic, otherwise we wouldn’t care about this country, democracy or dictatorship. We all have empathy for this world and the precious life that exists upon it, otherwise we would not be haunted by the actions of Empire. It is a calling so important, that all our lives have led us to this moment. “The Great Turning” is upon us, and we are bringing it into existence every day. To know the truth is to embrace one’s duty and find a way to make the greatest difference.
I renounce the War on Terror and its proponents as illegitimate and illegal. All legislation and appointments made by the Bush Administration are null and void as they are the work of traitors and betrayers. Wipe the slate clean, and start over again. This is my stand as I arm myself with the truth. 9/11 is a lie. The War on Terror is a lie.
I don’t have a solution to the problem, I just know that I have a dragon to slay.
Stephen Stills said it best… paranoia strikes deep
Locust is spot on. I cannot imagine our national guard or our military turning their rifles on American citizens but I’ll bet a dollar to donuts that Blackwater and Triple Canopy mercenaries, along with the mercenaries being trained in Central and South America, would have no compunction about shooting at Americans. They’ll follow orders just as mercenaries will.
Collidingrivers says they can’t lock us all up at once. Yes there are more of us than there are of them except they can imprison and kill enough us, so that the rest are too afraid to make a move.
We are ripe for martial law before the 2008 “elections.” The mafia in the white house will not, under any circumstance, give up the power they’ve worked decades for. I hope I’m wrong.
If you wish to see how real it is, just read that lead article about the innocent cameraman who has been locked up and beaten in the prison in Gitmo for the last five years.
No charges have ever been filed against him and he doesn’t even know why he is there. get ready, here they come.
Rusty Shackelford: I’m not sure what your intent was to enter a paranoia comment here; that prison in Cuba we Americans run is as real as it gets, and a good definition of the word paranoia is: ___ Reality.
Why would they do this?
You forget that its all about the MONEY. Martial law will de-stabilize the US and World economies; bad for business.
Anyone heard from “time is of the essence” Ken since Cindy Sheehan was arrested? Anyone heard from Cindy? I think Ken may have been there with her in DC that day.
Why did they attack Iraq Yankee Dog?
I do believe that fiasco cost a few bucks. And of course the reason for the war is oil, but the price of gasoline has more than doubled since we started the war in Iraq.
And we now have a broken army according to several knowledgable generals, including Colin Powell, who is a bit more intelligent than GWB. Well, that isn’t exactly a compliment for Powell.
Anyway our military eqipment is also in a horrible state of disrepair and that costs tons of money. Not a good argument Yankee Dog, try another angle. Hope you can give us a good reason to not worry about Cheney Bush.
They attacked Iraq because there’s profit to be had. Foreign wars are good for business.
War on US soil or Martial Law is a totally different matter; very very bad for business.
I can’t believe that the roll of right wing talk radio in implementing Martial Law hasn’t come up. The dittoheads will be encouraged into acts of violence against any open display of protest against Martial Law. They’re a bunch of Brownshirts that can be deployed in minutes and probably have as much firepower as the average policeman.
Also with the Bush approval numbers in the mid-twenties they must see the obvious fact that they’re going to loose huge in the 2008 elections. They did not amass vast power to the office of the Presidency to hand it over to Hillary Clinton.
Dave Lindorff, I agree that we are in dire straits, but I believe that in the event of another attack, the majority of Americans would actually endorse some of the measures you mention. It wouldn’t take much to whip up even more fury against not only the “turrists,” but against those of us on the left who are “soft” on them.
This country has always been proto-fascist, and the scenario you describe is not that hard to imagine. I often think about Cold War constructions of the “innate” authoritarianism of Soviet-style communism, without considering the number of times Russia had been invaded by foreign enemies and then faced the arms and propaganda race initiated by a highly militarized US after WWII. Now that we have experienced only one attack on our soil, look how easily we are willing to give up our “rights” to an overly-powerful authoritarian executive.
There’s two distinct flavors of right-wing extremists, and the wedge is easy to locate. There’s the angry middle-class pro-neocon Limbaugh/Bush people. And there’s the angry, often rural, anti-neocon white identity people (perhaps Buchanan, David Duke, Posse Comitatus, etc.).
The wedge is that one group of the extreme right is pro-Zionist, willing to trade in civil liberties for “security”, etc. and inclined toward authoritarian (Limbaugh). The other is anti-semitic, traditionally tax-resisting, and perhaps more militant.
Both groups are inclined toward embracing the other wedges (sexism, racism, nationalism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.). But it’s important to note the difference. Limbaugh will praise martial law and make excuses for it, whereas the others — simply put — won’t.
For those who say the military, whether Guard or Army, won’t turn their guns on Americans, perhaps you’ve forgotten May 1970 when the Guard killed four Americans at Kent State.
They’re military. They’ll do what they’re told. And killing has come easy to them under current military training and practice.
And if you think Americans will resist martial law, you haven’t been listening to the Republican millions who support every violation of law, civil liberties, and common decency that Bush and Cheney have committed against the United States. Those are the people who make martial law possible, who make fascism possible, who make all tyrannies possible. Those are the people you will have to decide whether to kill if Bush and Cheney pull the trigger. Life in America may be about to become very ugly.
Cindy was live on KPFK this past Tuesday the 24th, about 5:00 Pacific time.
Everything Bush/Cheney touch turns to shit!
How will we ever clean it up?
Everything Bush/Cheney touch turns to shit!
How will we ever clean it up?
The only way to deal with Martial Law other than surrender is to fight those who fight us.
IED’s, snipers, ambushes, and high profile assassinations, kidnapings, and suicide bombings–or we could impeach and imprison the sorry misfits now leading us on to this civil war.
Get your ammo and food supplies stored away! It looks like it’s going to be a bumpy ride!
I am concerned that there will be no inauguration in 2009. It is apparent that if there was an honest and open election, the current regime would lose power. Why would these despots put in place a set of executive orders, signing statements, and laws that delivered near-absolute power to their opposition. How would they react if Hillary Clinton had such concentrated power?
This is not a coincidence; there must be a strategy and goal behind this accelerated and continued erosion of the Constitution, our rights, and our personal freedoms.
Waiting for the other shoe to drop…
Yeah you are right Yankee Dog, the war was profitable for Cheney, The Carlyle Group, Bush and some others. Maybe they won’t enact martial law, unless China cashes in their U. S. bonds and we have a depression. The Iraqi war was not profitable for the general public.
I disagree with the final sentence of the article. If the military participates in a coup, it will be _because_ it is broken. The officer corps has been corrupted, the NCO’s with wisdom and experience will have left, and the rank and file will largely be foreigners wanting citizenship or the dregs of society. Neither of the latter two groups have much concept of what the constitution is really about. The civic virtues instilled in military tradition by George Washington will have been ground out of the armed forces by 30 years of politicized tampering. A broken military will be unable to remember it is supposed to be subservient to civil society. Thus, all the pieces are complete and Goz is probably right, there will be no 2009 inauguration.
It would not help to impeach Bush and cheney. Israel already has the replacments picked…..
http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/political/one_world_government/impeach_bush.htm
I don’t see China doing that Kem; they also care about money and a US depression doesn’t help them. They believe they can over take world dominance economically and with a military build-up; though without direct conflict.
Marshal Law will happen by an internal conflict started by those who have no money; the American people. The distribution of wealth and opportunity in this country is disasterous and can only end in a class war.
In what it **was** America, I have to agree with LOCUST when he says tht ** It will be private Blackwater blackshirts that enforce martial law**
All the indications, rationally, just get there —
It’s a well funded and planned project not really difficult to implement in light of the fact that our current enforcement boys and girls have been sadly mutilated in their functions by those **advocates** of the FREE at any cost, which looks very much like a State of Anrchy, ruled by those **untouchable** fews that never ever gave anything to what this Country it’s all about, the Sovereign Citizens included - an Historic drama
IF martial law comes (and I give it a big maybe), I don’t think that the international community will come rushing to your defense or aid. A couple of recent examples - the aid money that was sent after Katrina was squandered, stolen, misused, abused, etc. Same with the goodwill after the manufactured 9/11.
Don’t expect any support - financial or emotional - from the international community. It is likely that many out there are going to be plenty glad because lately, you’ve not been good international citizens. Your credit in the global world isn’t strong - most of you posting on this site know that.
My own individual experience is that I am given many opportunities to learn lessons - and when I choose not to learn the lesson, the Divine Energy uses increasingly harsher situations in order for me to learn what I need to learn. More often than I would care to admit, it gets to the dope slap stage. Maybe this is your community dope slap.
Do us a favour, huh? Don’t get all offended when the rest of the world shrugs their shoulders and says, “Sorry buddy. Can’t help ‘ya.” And don’t be surprised when they don’t say, “Good luck.”
Martial ‘law?’ What’s that - we already have a higher percent of our citizens in prison than any other nation on this planet. Perhaps Bush/Cheney will take another hundred million of us hostage - to make arms for the Religious Reich’s Star Troopers.
I have this vision of our broken army deploying on the Beltway, fixing bayonets and charging inward…
Meanwhile, since Everyman’s Hovel is his castle, perhaps we should be stockpiling ammunition and sharpening our own bayonets. What ‘interesting’ times we find ourselves living in. Please wake me when it’s over.
Here’s what I want to know if martial law happens…..
Blackwater/et al. - If martial law is declared and they are going to be paid to point guns at Americans, who is going to write their payroll checks? And where are they going to cash them?
Economy - I would venture to guess that if martial law is declared that the economy will implode. The stock market is already on that course. And the value of US currency? What happens to that? Back to using gold? Back to barter?
Oil/Fuel/Electricity - To run all the vehicles, tanks, jets, jails, etc. it seems to me that somebody has to make the gasoline and electricity and get it to where it needs to be. How is that going to happen with the country in chaos? Bagdad only gets about 1 to 2 hours of electricity a day now and gas rationing is already in effect. So how would this all work in America when the shit hits the fan?
Food - Where does that come from? How will it get into the kitchens of Americans? Will they even know how to cook it?
If martial law does happen, it looks like to me that Americans will first get on the track of survival. Whatever that takes. Every man/woman for himself. And quite frankly, I can’ even imagine what it will be like, or what people will do.
I have a lot of questions, but I don’t have any answers. I don’t have a clue as to what the military, police, national guard, Blackwater, or any of the other power players will do. The one thing I do know is that I am connected to my neigbors and my community. We have been there for each other for many years and have been mutually supportive. We know each others hearts. My suggestion is to get to know your neighbors. Work with your city councils to come up with emergency plans. This is a lot harder than just going out and buying guns and ammunition (although I think those may be neccesary too). If we don’t band together in helping each other with the daily task of survival, we ain’t going to make it folks.
If it ever gets to the point of martial law, with armed military knocking on or knocking down the doors of US citizens, it will get very ugly for the Bushco funded mercenaries or for whatever military personnel that may remain loyal to a fascist government. Despite the seeming complacency of Americans, most will not take too kindly to such behavior in their homeland. This sort of threat is one of the reasons the original framers of the constitution wanted an armed citizenry, and armed it is.
Tiberius is right. Check out an article by Chaim Kupferberg, titled “The mystery surrounding the death of John O’Neill. He offers a solid explanation that 9-11 was an inside job. The Bush/Cheney puppet government run by corporate elites had to motive, means and opportunity to bring down the towers (a new Pearl Harbor). This cabal used Saudi Arabian and Pakistani as proxies. He asks, “who was in the best position to manage the consequences? the flow of information? all the elements necessary to a successful operation (subverting airport security, guiding the planes to their specific targets rather than intercepting them? Who stood to benefit in the aftermath with a ready excuse to attack Iraq for oil? The brazennous of taking down such an overarching symbol of financial stability as the Twin Towers, and kill thousands in the process, shows the determination to achieve the ends for which the treasonous action was perpetrated - a dissident-proof, totalitarian oligarchy of elites.
Soon the coup will be complete when Iran is attacked and martial law is imposed.
Good points Rebel Farmer. It will end in anarchy, riots like we can’t even dream of. Cities on fire and mob rule. It will be Katrina magnified ten thousand times.
Food? The supemarkets will be emptied out in a few days and no chance of restocking most of them. People kill for food. There are few small farmers, it is not like it was in 1929. Our credit cards will be useless, frozen. There will be racial riots and eventual ruin of the country. We’ll still have a military, and a very possible military coup. We’ll know soon enough one way or another.
I hope Yankee Dog hss it figured right, but if we bomb Iran and the signs are there that we will, then it’s gonna be more than bad. China and Russia have both said they will support Iran and China “may” cash in their bonds if we attack Iran and a depresion will ensue. The Chinese are very patient, they can hold out much longer than we can and will be there to pick up the scraps of a once powerful nation when the smoke clears.
Pope fears Bush is antichrist, journalist contends - Church - journalist Wayne Madsden - Brief Article
WASHINGTON DC — According to freelance journalist Wayne Madsden, “George W Bush’s blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs and his constant references to ‘evil doers,’ in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations–the anti-Christ.”
Madsen, a Washington-based writer and columnist, who often writes for Counterpunch, says that people close to the pope claim that amid these concerns, the pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament.
Before he became pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, “We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel.”
The pope worked tirelessly to convince leaders of nations on the UN Security Council to oppose Bush’s war resolution on Iraq. Vatican sources claim they had not seen the pope more animated and determined since he fell ill to Parkinson’s Disease. In the end, the pope did convince the leaders of Mexico, Chile, Cameroon and Guinea to oppose the U.S. resolution.
Madsen contends that “Bush is a dangerous right-wing ideologue who couples his political fanaticism with a neo-Christian blood cult.”
COPYRIGHT 2003 Catholic New Times, Inc.
I cannot buy into that story that the Twin Towers coming down was an inside job. Just to implode a eighteen story tall hotel in las Vegas, took a demolition company weeks to drill the necessary holes, cut half way through specific beams, run miles of wire and then place the necessary explosives, timers and electrical circuits. That was for an eighteen story building, not the dual twin towers.
Then, even if all of that impossible to conceal prepatory work to sucessfully bring the two buildings straight down was secretly accomplished, which I find to be totally unbelieveable, then the conspiritors would have to insure that both bulidings were struck by hijacked aircraft, at almost the same hour to ;insure their cover story. Even Jules Vern wouldn’t write that fiction.
Not one person ever saw anyone performing all of that mecessary work, NO one ever detected the necessary pre-placed explosive charges and wiring, none of the hundreds of maintenance personnel and both of the buildings security forces never saw anthing suspicious.
Nope, the buildings came down because of the tons of jet fuel, that created enormous fires and weakened the strcutures inner steel beams on the floors at and near where the aircraft struck. When that happened the upper floors above those weakended and failed beams began to come straight down, and as the weight built up on the top of the destruction, it just accelerated and down they came __ like dominoes.
There were no explosives. That is utter nonsense. It didn’t take the architects who designed the towers to long to figure out why they fell and they sure as heck would have known if it was from explosives.
Anyone can believe what they choose, but this is as silly to me as the conspiracy theory story that Neal Armstrong never set a foot on the moon, That story is the moon landing was all done on a hollywood movie set. Sure it was__ and no one ever squealed. Hell, the president can’t even have sex in the oral office without it being found out.
Martial law in the USA? If that’s what it’ll take for your government to stop destroying other nations, I say: bring it on!! The sooner the better.
I live in a “friendly” country on the other side of the world, yet we are unhappy with your policies. Is there anything else that would change your behaviour the world over?
Maybe the citizens of the USA should get a taste of what does it mean to have no elctricity, no TV to watch reality shows and mind-numbing crime series; no supermakets, malls and shops to while away your time; no fast food joints to fatten yourselves; no petrol for your assault-vehicle-like SUVs, etc. etc. Maybe if you could live like the majority of our planet for a couple of months, you’d appreciate that your behaviour is out of touch with human norms, with decency and with reality.
Can a minority keep a majority oppressed. Anyone heard of Apartheid?
This is bit late to write on this but Dave Lindorf’s take on the current situation is quite serious.
About one and a half years ago when the CD Comments section was not yet on, I used to correspond with some of the writers at Counter Punch and CD, and had raised the possibility of both Martial Law and concentration camps and suspension of the Constitution. At the time, one of the more well known writers on both CD and CP to whom I had described this scenario had been somewhat optimistic and his exact words were “I do not think the American people are at that point yet [i.e., Martial Law, suspension of the Constitution, and all Muslims being herded into concentration camps].”
I think he neverthelesss shared my views on the possibility with other major progressive intellectauls. Over the last year I have seen the issue take a life of its own with increasing vigour. Dave Lindorf’s article nicely lays down the legal framework that has been put in place.
However, many of the posters above are still too horrified to think that such a thing could happen, just as the progressive intellectual to whom I wrote to did not, but he has come around now.
There are a number of points that are a bit deep and require a more sustained Machiavellian analysis that have not been broached by Dave, and not discussed by other bloggers except by accident and tangentialy. It is important to know these to be prepared to defend human rights (including your own). Denial makes you more vulnerable and paralyzable by the shock and awe of the event or events that may likely occur in addition to the traditional, old style Martial Law or instead of it.
Some more delicate souls above are fearful, and they seem to think that by not talking about it will make the demons disappear. They won’t. They are too near to success to abandon this project.
However, you can take courage from the fact that these are NOT supermen and women. They have proved their ineptness so far, just as Hitler proved his by invading Russia, and sealing his doom. Therefore while the intention may be there, one needs a very sophisticated force to control tens of millions of educated, inventive, freedom-loving people over a vast country. Take courage, then, in this knowledge that such a sophisticated apparatus is not yet detectable. Dave should have mentioned that.
As the Buddha said:
ALL BEINGS TREMBLE BEFORE DEATH
That includes tyrants too. Old Harry Truman rendered the same wisdom in a more folksy American idiom:
EVERYBODY GETS INTO THEIR PANTS ONE LEG AT A TIME.
This being said, here is a possible deeply Machiavellian way the coup could unfold, and the evidence I will use will make the scenario plausible.
1. The American military was not and has never been entirely crazy. Many people from privates to generals and admirals have been people of principle, highly educated, well read, and after retirement have voiced concerns similar to what appaers on this blog. At the crucial time when the Martial Law is declared, these people will not be reliable for the Fuhrer. For example General Peter Pace has issued an order to remind all military personnel their duty to the Constitution and not obey any order that commands use of WMD.
2. It is precisely for this reason(and this is one part of the Machiavellian Scheme), the land military (army, marines and national guard) has been sent as fodder to the killing fields of Iraq, and possibly Iran soon, to be “otherwise” occupied and “broken” so that they do not offer resistance to the Martial Law.
3. The pseudo-”military” that will actually put the ML in place is the mercenenary, Judeo-Christian fundamentalist, psychopaths of Blackwater, and some of the top brass in the standard military who have remained behind and are deemed “reliable” - - i.e from the Judeo-Christian fundamentalist backgrounds and Southern backwaters.
4. As for controlling 300 million people, that number is not correct. The true progressive segment of the white population is pretty small - - probably about 50 - 70 million strong. The rest of the progressives come from the traditional sources - - African American and Hispanic. There are at least 150 million whites who beieve in the “manifest” destiny of the white peoples, whose education and knowledge about the other cultures and peoples of the world in Asia, Africa and Latin America is pitiful or non-existent. These will be made into frenzied, gun totting mob, following the excellent techniques established by Goebels in the Third Reich. Here are the brown shirts, the Christian and Judeo Zionist zombies in their millions. Their mission would be to “Protect Jerusalem from the Anti-Christ Muslim hordes who are brown and black and hence untermenschen not worth the Rapture of the blonde white Christ.” They will be let loose among the 70 milion or so progressive and poor whites and the about 60 million or so progressive or poor blacks and browns.
5. The people coordinating these mobs will be the Kapi from Blackwater, the KKK, the Aryan Army and so forth as well as the loyal military. They will be the Blackshirts or the SS of the new Fuhrer.
6. Since the control of the media is already theirs, the new Goebbels will have more power than his 1940’s counterpart.
7. Of course, every legitimate American institution - - especially Universities and the academia - - will be closed down, silenced and many intellectuals disapppeared to deprive progressives of any leadership to lead organised resistance.
8. Some brave war vets who have beome progressive and some retired military officers may lead progressive resistance with their skill and knowledge, but it will be a long haul.
9. This is going to be shocking to many, but it is already happening now in full view. Observe that the white racists have been seething at the possibility of “President Obama”. The guy does not even have a wholesome Christian name such as “Jefferson” or “Washington”. Thus the financiers of permanent “War on Terror” have approached Hilary Clinton and Edwards to form the winning white ticket. Consequently, Obama is now the “bette noir”, despite being coffee and suited to the nines, with superb diction. He is being unceremoniously given the heave-ho. Of course, there will be no election, but the charade of the primaries and debates will be kept up. At the time that Martial Law is actually declared, a “national unity” government will be formed with the Clintons, Edwards and the DLC co-opted to be at the Emperor’s side. This will further confuse the public and make them believe that everything that is happening is legit. and “good for the republic.”
OK so far, the Nazis are are winning.
What could go wrong in this grand plan?
Several things. I leave it to you to figure it out whether internal economic and Natural events and external events will play along for the plan to go smoothly?
Think about it. How many major nations and groups in the world, including the European Union, will want this Fourth Reich to succeeed and come into possession of the vast military arsenal of America? So what do you think they will do?
On this positive note, I will end. There may be tough, death and destructive times ahead, especially for millions of Muslims world wide. But eventually the tyranny will run out of steam as a result of the confluence of the events internal and external I listed above.
But be prepared for some years of rough riding.
Peace
Aymon
Editor
Where is my article that I submitted about 15 minutes ago, or have sent it to blackshirt to vsit me in the dead of night?
Folks remember this.
scarlet _ pimpernel — Yes, America has become a dumbed-down and ill-informed nation, but that is largely due to a mainstream media that panders always to the lowest common intellectual denominator, that almost always parrots whatever b.s. comes out of the Bush administration (and more and more lately, out of its generals), and right-wing radio talk shows that spout propaganda all day and all night (some of it beamed to our soldiers in Iraq). When network “news” chooses to cover Lindsay Lohan’s latest trip to rehab instead of topics like this, Americans who do not use the web for news lose access to vital information. Information they should be using to press Congress to act now now now.
Congress needs to - right now - impeach Cheney, then Bush. This would put Nancy Pelosi in the president’s chair until January 2009. No more appointments, for instance, of loyal Republican market fundamentalist/economic fascists to positions where they can allow the concentration of media ownership in a few hands, all belonging to buddies of George and Dick.
The US military, combined with all the mercenaries this administration can scrape together, demonstrably cannot control a nation of 30 million people despite five years of effort to do so. Is there a good reason to believe they can control a nation with ten times as many people and twenty times as much terrain? From a practical perspective, would the administration even think that such a thing was feasible?
The daily and ever-present totalitarianism of money is arguably worse than any outward martial law.
But I remember the fear swarming back in the Reagan days in which FEMA was to take charge of the entire national government. But today we see how terribly incompetent FEMA was, even at responding to a regional natural disaster. Was it smoke & mirrors all along? Indeed, how much of fascism is built on fear itself?
In any case, I agree wholeheartedly that the time for impeachment is now (if not a few decades ago). But more importantly, the time to engage & educate our fellow citizens is now, our failing Republic needs a restructuring. A reaffirmation of the Bill of Rights, privacy, habeas corpus, and perhaps — seize the moment — Range/IRV, no electoral college or primary system, and few other reforms we failed to enact in the 20th century.
We’re essentially 19th century anachronisms at this point.
Vicar,
Do you have a link to your assertion about the BBC having reported the collapse of Bldg #7 20 minutes before it happened?
I haven’t heard that and would like to take a look at that.
(I agree with all of the other evidence you have sited)
Vicar~
Excellent takedown of the 911 Denier’s blind assertions…I dig it and saved it!
Now…about the Moon landing…I am skeptical, but willing to learn. What sites can you direct me to?
TIBERIUS BOND: Although the technical applications may be there, I believe 911 was an inside job because the U.S. government branches were waiting for the neocons to monopolize, i.e. THEIR check-balances to absolute power were IN place, with a complicit bought and paid-for-profit media also in place to do the work of manufacturing consent.
GOD raises points about the anti-Christ. I have tried to make this same analogy in some of my prior postings. Can you imagine a greater evil than co-opting the church (that’s WHERE the Bush-Cheney support has been cultivated through authoritarian programming and indeed delivered) to do the WORK of murder on a grand, global scale? By setting into “believers” minds the idea that all-out calamity (Armageddon) constitutes God’s will, these millions stand by as things get worse believing this sickening self-fulfilling prophecy constitutes Divine justice!
JP: I agree with you, too.
AYMON: About a week ago I typed a long posting and sent it, and saw NOTHING. I tried to encapsulate my own points and sent that a second time. Still nothing. I wondered if something in my computer system or server was too slow to deliver the message? Then the next day I saw it there. It’s evident something is IN the CD system looking over some postings, as at least seven people have asked where their comment disappeared. Well, nothing is perfect… at least we get to see MOST of it here!
Hi SiouxRose,
My posts, the longer ones anyway, have been slow coming up also. I’m not sure if there is a 4 or 5 thousand character limit, but I’m pretty sure there is one, so keep that in mind.
On another post I pointed out that when martial law is declared they will likely cut all internet communications (probably cell phone satellites, too), but not the MSM, which they control. Expect numerous Paris/Nicole type stories to keep the populace complacent & mesmerized. It certainly is in keeping with their super-secretive “keep ‘em in the dark” methodology, right?
Kem,
As much research as you have done on nuclear issues I’m surprised you haven’t researched how we ended up shooting so much of it in the mid-east. The demolished/imploded buildings on 911 were the excuse to use DU, in the PNAC effort to reduce world population by 2 billion people.
This link will provide some answers:
http://www.physics911.net/nuclearfalseflag
Martial law, in the US???? Let’s analyze this.
1.) Who will enforce it? Local police? Doubtful. Federal Law Enforcement? No, there are not enough of them. Blackwater, and other mercenaries? Not enough of them, either. Who does that leave? The Army, and the National Guard. This author is obviously a typical “progressive” who probably has not served in the military, has no family in the military, knows no one in the military, and will make damm sure no child of his serves. IF he HAD served, he would know that a good half, at least, of the enlisted personal in the regular army and probably two thirds of enlisted in the Guard are either NRA members or sympathizers. As the first act of Martial Law would have to involve disarming the populace, the army would probably mutiny. The Guard certainly would.
2.) How will the civilian population react? The unarmed regressives in their little rich enclaves will whine loudly, and then start fingering their unreliable neighbors. The rest of us, who own over 100 million firearms, will fight. And win. One needs only to look at what is happening in Iraq, and, here, the army would be on OUR side, not the governments.
I know it feels good to fantasize about these things, but you really ought to dedicate your time to more productive activities, like the black helicopters and getting tin foil for you heads so the CIA cannot control your thoughts.
Thousands in DOJ oppose Gonzales. Read NYTimes excerpt:
In an opinion article that was first published this month in The Denver Post and has since been circulated in the department, Mr. Koppel, the civil appellate lawyer, said that under the Bush administration the department had been “thoroughly politicized in a manner that is inappropriate, unethical and indeed unlawful.”
Mr. Koppel, who has been with the department since 1981, wrote that his decision to issue such a public criticism of Mr. Gonzales and the department “subjects me to a substantial risk of unlawful reprisal from extremely ruthless people who have repeatedly taken such action in the past.”
“But I am confident,” Mr. Koppel continued, “that I am speaking on behalf of countless thousands of honorable public servants, at Justice and elsewhere.”
You LIBERALS are IDIOTS
You LIBERALS are FUCKING IDIOTS
C-Span interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlB966zQIZ4
WorldNetDaily article:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55824
aymon
can you please say where we are supposed to end up when we click your link? (your name in blue)
Hi Paul, I don’t disagree that 9-11 was an excuse for Bush to invade Iraq. I don’t disagree that Bush is a damn fool for using Depleted uranium for weapons, or that he is on the verge of becoming a dictator. I do agree with everything you have ever posted here prior to this.
The one thing I do not agree with, is the twin towers were imploded by explosives. And I do Hope that does not make me a misfit, an idiot, or a neo-con. It is not rational for me to believe that the tons of explosives required for such a job could be so well placed to bring down both buildings, so precisely and no one ever detected the explosives.
It would have required fifty men working daily for two months to set it up. Were all of the towers security personnel and all of the buildings maintencece personnel involved?__ Really?
After the explosives were all set and wired, the demolition experts now wait for the terrorists to sucessfully hijack the aircraft and fly the aircraft into the buildings?___ What a plan! I cannot buy that. Then there are those who say the hijacked aircraft were not the aircraft that struck the towers. Well, the many cell phone conversations of passengers on the hijacked aircraft say otherwise. Passengers described to loved ones what was ocurring as the aircraft flew at low altitudes into lower Manhatten and headed straight for the towers. Oh yes, those passengers were all in on it too.
Then we have the question of the vast ammount of gold and prescious gems banked there. Why would they not have been removed to safety before 9-11? That was the major priority of the “rescue” work. Once the gold was recovered, the search and rescue effort was over.
All it required for those two buildings to fall straight down, was for a single floor to collapse, when it did, the one above had no place to go except down. Then it was excess weight which progressively built up and bam, bam, bam, all the way to the ground. Certainly the concrete dust blowing out of the windows would appear to be explosions, essentially that is what it was; we pancake a huge slab of concrete onto another and boooom!! Dust will be blowing out just like it would with an an explosion.
I knew when I posted my opinion on this subject that I’d likely get some flack, hope no one shuns me for disagreeing with those who believe otherwise.
I do not argue we have the problems of Cheney/Bush, which are too numerous to mention, and we all know what they are attemptiong to do. I just don’t believe the theory that the twin towers were imploded and neither does one of my cousins and his friends, who once all worked for a company in the seventies that imploded and brought down building in Nevada and California.
Good to know that conservatives are attending this site. I welcome a polite exchange.
Coco, if you click on the blue name, your computer will explode.
Did you print the website information the nurse from Hawaii gave about the serious DU problems they were having over there? That important string about depleted uranium was quickly hidden away in the archves.
Kem, I agree with this part of your thinking,
“Then, even if all of that impossible to conceal prepatory work to sucessfully bring the two buildings straight down was secretly accomplished, which I find to be totally unbelieveable, then the conspiritors would have to insure that both bulidings were struck by hijacked aircraft, at almost the same hour to ;insure their cover story. Even Jules Vern wouldn’t write that fiction.”
I have thought a bit about this aspect of the “attack.” I think of the premis of the attack on the WTC. The planes hit the WTC, the buildings collapse, therefore, the planes ’caused’ the collapse.
In essense, it is an illusionist’s trick, the plane impacts were pre-planned as much as the building’s collapse was. It was just as essential that the planes hit their targets, as it was for the buildings to collapse. Not one possibility that one could happen without the other.
From an engineering point of view, the random aspects of the illusion need to be eliminated completely before the trick can be performed. So eliminate any chance that a (human) pilot would miss the target.
Only a mechanical remote-control piloting system, with the additional insurance of a homing device planted in the building could guarantee a “hit.” Therefore, most likely, the planes that hit the WTC were not the planes that were full of passengers and hijackers and were more likely weaponized drones.
Building 7 most likely was the control and command of the operation.
From a “Psy-Ops” point of view, the collapse of the WTC twin towers would not have been emotionally as profound if the planes actually caused the damamage they did, and that was the end of it. The towers would have remained standing, at most, the tops of the buildings would have toppled off to the side. Instead, the buildings had to fall completely to the ground, as if a home-run had been struck by the enemy. Had they remained standing, that would have been too hopeful for the traumatized public, something like “hit hard but still standing” or “United We Still Stand.”
No, they had to take it all down, and that will be their downfall.
Kem, I’m sorry to say that the “pancake theory” you embrace is just flapjacks, flopping in the wind. Things, let alone steel and glass buildings, don’t fall straight down with “no where else to go.” The path of LEAST RESISTANCE not MAXIMUM RESISTANCE is the correct answer, and it would make the building topple, not do a vertical collapse.
The speed of the collapse was virtually “free-fall” at about 10 stories per second. Go look at a ten story building and imagine it falling quickly and neatly, straight down, in 1 second flat. That is not natural, that is not the way the physical world works.
The cascade of impacts you describe, never occurred, because sequential explosives detonated each progressive floor, allowing the top of the building to fall vertically, as if in free fall itself. It is irrefutable science. It is not theory, it is a nightmare.
I don’t intend to give you flack, I just share, given it is all I can think of doing at this point. Like I said, for me, it was a revelation, because I believed the official story for about a year. Things clicked for me, mostly out of personal experience. I did do some explosive work with miniatures, early in my career. If I hadn’t had that experience, I might not have such a firm grasp on the basic principals of controlled demolition. I also know a few magicians, and that experience taught me about illusions and distraction.
There is something holding you back, and I don’t know what it is, but confront those beliefs and dig deeper. You may find with the truth, a new strength you didn’t know you had.
Two things:
I believe that the police and the military would for the most part either grudgingly follow orders or do so willingly.
It was the police in Nazi controlled countries of Europe that did most of the rounding up of Jews and others during WWII.
As for our well armed populace……gimme a break.
Does anyone in their right mind think that disorganized, untrained civilians with their hunting rifles and pistols could do anything more than mildly annoy trained soldiers?
The very reason that the Iraqi insurgents can sometimes stage successful attacks on our troops is because they ARE trained soldiers.
A real military is trained in assaulting defensive positions. And is backed up with artillery and aircraft.
In the event of such a situation our only hope would be that the military would quickly become so sickened by the lopsided carnage that they would defy their commanders and refuse to fight.
As a veteran I don’t see that happening.
all the best
Kem Patrick - Thanks for being a voice of sanity about the 9/11 tragedy. I saw a Senate hearing on this, soon after it happened - they questioned various architects and building engineers and they said pretty much what you did. But there was a little “hint” that maybe there was some “cost-cutting” in the construction of the buildings - not an unusual thing in NYC, unfortunately. This was quickly glossed over and I heard no more about it. But if that was true, it would most likely be plain old graft and corruption, business as usual, not an evil plot.
Thank you for the decent responses Tiberius and grandma.
I still have at least one problem with your theory Tiberius. the two hi-jacked aircraft and the subsequent cell phone calls from the passengers to loved ones. Several of the passengers and at least one terrified hostess, stating they were heading straight towards the World Trade Center Buildings.
I do wonder if a good number of people we would very much like to have on our side of issues at Common Dreams, are not turned off reading conspiracy theories written by us, theories that are so difficult to believe.
The twin tower theory isn’t at all like the conspiracy theory that there was more than a single shooter who murdered JFK. That theory almost anyone could believe. I
believed it before it was a theory.
What ever did happen to those two hi-jacked aircraft? A UFO took them perhaps? There also are reports there were large UFOs in the area on 9-11. The way those two buildings internal structures were designed, would allow them to fall after a massive fire,__ just as they did.
What is important to me is. It does not matter how they were destroyed, Bush and Cheney were Hell bent on doing what they are doing, the war with Iraq was bing planned a year prior to 9-11. They would have attacked Iraq for any reason and they didn’t have to destroy the WTC buildngs to have an excuse.
I believe the official story of the planes alone bringing down the twin towers and the plane hitting the Pentagon. But, there are still about a thousand nagging uncertainties and coincidences, involving WTC7, the Pentagon getting hit in the one place where no one was working after the plane made a very nifty, tight turn, and much more. And the Neocons did need this to whip up histeria to attack Iraq. “Any reason” just would not have been enough.
Yesterday, at work, I voiced the opinion I’ve held for years - that Bush/Cheney would allow/manufacture another ‘act of terrorism’ to validate martial law if pushed too far and how horrid that would be. Someone replied, “Sacrifices are part of war” and went on to talk about our revolutionary patriots.
I’m struggling to see where these revolutionary patriots would come from today. We - the ‘have nots’ seem to be struggling with dozens of small wars/fights all around us, distracted trying to keep ‘body and soul’ together. I want to be an optimist but..
Sherlock Holmes’ most famous quote sums up the essence of my point. “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”
I can’t argue with you about the merits of physical law and as you choose to believe the impossible. It is very improbable, yes, but controlled demolition is the only possible explanation for the collapse of the WTC and Building 7. Have you even seen the footage of Building 7’s collapse? Are you really serious? Unfortunately, I am.
Back to the point I took with the article to begin with, without confronting 9/11, the bogus “war on terror” will go on forever. Martial Law or something just as bad will be inevitable, and we won’t remember the “History” that is happening before our very own eyes. The Orwellian nightmare of a war meant to go on forever for the profit of the rich, will be mankind’s epitaph.
If you are sincere, then you would at least agree, that a full investigation into 9/11 must occur, given all the points you’ve mentioned. As for clouding the issue with other “wacko theories,” I am not confused. What I am talking about is not silly.
There is a big difference between being an opportunist of a tragedy vs. being the crimal who committed it in the first place. It shows the determination and willpower that exceeds the boundries of the rational “sane” mind. It keeps you from knowing the true extent of the extremes your opponent is willing to go, and hobbles your own ability to respond.
How many people have secrets regarding 9/11? How do they live with themselves? It is beyond me, and I’m sorry to be a witness to these times. I’m trying to make a difference, are you?
fun reading this
in my heart i know
a gallon of petrol
and a bic
will shut the country down
guns
i don’t think so
the country
will come back
green!!!!!!
ken
why would the u.s. under martial law tomorrow look any different then today?
Why wouldn’t it be business as usual?
why wouldn’t china and saudia arabia et al keep backing our economy?
has the tai economy collapsed?
Did pakistan collapse?
why wouldn’t you still go to work?
why would your work even close?
they wouldn’t have to gas anyone.
who might they eventually need to lock up; 2-5% of the population?
isn’t 2-5% of the population all ready locked up?
who’s resisting today?
who would resist tommorrow?
the clinical defintion of facism is something like consolidated economic intrests control of the government.
The only thing that would change is term limits—
ie; the lack thereof.
propaganda-polling-pr
they got us.
ya’ll been watching too many crappy b rated soviet invasion of the united states 1980’s movies.
armed insurrections….come on.
Frankly I am not amazed at the people who doubt 911 was a conspiracy against our country. You have been cleverly programmed into believing the official lies. About a third of Americans have been skeptical enough & diligent enough to seek alternate sources of information, and as they discover logical explanations to literally hundreds of vital un-answered questions (or even un-asked by officials obligated to do so) the ranks of 911 ‘doubters’ continues to grow.
Patriotic citizens in a democracy always question the actions of their government, while only foolish people blindly let themselves be led.
As Woodward & Bernstien would say, “Follow the money!” Who stood to gain? The new owner of the WTC certainly did. When he purchased the WTC, less than a year before 911 BTW, he already knew that because of asbestos issues the buildings would have to come down. Estimates of the cost of this ranged from 10 to 20 billion dollars. Instead he walked away with a handsome, albiet bloody, $1.5 billion profit.
Tiberius Bond…thankyou for your post and for being courageous to face facts, ugly as they are, and being brave enough to admit your previous notions about 911 were based on spoon fed fallacies, then changing your mind. I am particularly grateful for this portion of your post,
“Things clicked for me, mostly out of personal experience. I did do some explosive work with miniatures, early in my career. If I hadn’t had that experience, I might not have such a firm grasp on the basic principals of controlled demolition. I also know a few magicians, and that experience taught me about illusions and distraction.”
Few Americans even now realize the illusionist’s distraction with this event. On 9-10-2001, an article came out (I believe in the NY Times, but not certain) stating the Pentagon couldn’t account for $2.3 Trillion (that’s right Trillion with a capital ‘T’) in materials that were ‘missing’. That’s 2,300 billion. Now I’ve ‘lost’ some things in my life, but how the hell does a government agency entrusted with accountability ‘lose’ that much stuff? Isn’t it convenient this admission of incompetence was overshadowed by events of the next day? Follow the money!!!
Here’s the one piece of the 911 story that firmly convinced me the whole official explanation was a stinker. Before I discuss this point I will refer you to a letter from UL (Underwriters Laboratories) to NIST:
“WTC Construction Certifiers Say Towers Should Have Easily Withstood Jet Fuel Temperatures”
Kevin Ryan/Underwriters Laboratories | November 12 2004
Here’s a link to the complete letter:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2004/121104easilywithstood.htm
Ok, it posted. One reason I’m doing this in two parts is I think the post I wrote earler today was over the character limit so I’m being more cautious now.
Here is the piece of info which led me to believe we were lied to about 911:
Planes supposedly crashed into the solid stone building of the Pentagon and into the earth in Pennsylvania, right? Aside from the fact an airplane with a 140 foot wingsppan (and with two nine foot in diameter titanium engines attached) only created a hole less than 20 feet in diameter, and aside from the fact the claim was the plane ‘vaporized’ (titanium melts at 400 degrees above steel BTW) when it hit the only side of the Pentagon that had been recently reinforced, 184 of 189 passengers were identified through their DNA.
In contrast to that, the coroner in Pennsylvania stated he couldn’t identify ANYONE from that crash even though it crashed into soft dirt instead of solid stone. He said there weren’t any remains to identify. Who can explain this?
Join the NRA. The Second Ammendment makes all others possible. The Army and Blackwater cannot control Iraq, and they are TRYING. They will NEVER control 100 million gun owners, especially when the troops either do not have their hearts in it or are actively rebelling/killing their officers (Who will not have their hearts in any repression of Americans, either.)
I was in New Orleans in 2005, with the CA Natl Guard. The order came down to confiscate all firearms we encountered when we talked to people in their houses. (This was later prohibited, by law.) After a number of us pointed out that we considered this to be an illegal order and we would not obey it, said order was rescinded. The same thing would happen if anyone was stupid enough to order the military to disarm all Americans.
In response to the last paragraph (and someone else may have posted this already), ‘Blackwater’ would be used, as they were in New Orleans. That is what seems apparant to me.
This is really frightening. If you can toruture ANYONE, then you would be willing to torture EVERYONE. We tend to have a willing suspension of disbelief, when it comes to what can happen to us in the U.S. But look at what has been happening, and what these people have done to so many. Why would we expect to be treated any differently?
United Steel Workers?? Where is the leadership there to help with a general strike?
It is Sunday morning, and I can’t let this and other blogs of friday go. Some very interesting reading here.
Is it as bad as some of you believe?
Okay Paul, I fully trust your judgement, your intelligence, education and your excellent mind. If you believe the world trade center buldings were imploded, I will not argue and attempt to accept your opinions, event though I have a problem of understanding how any managed to set the necessary explosives in secret and no one ever detected them.
I still have three important questions to eleviate my confusion, and I would like to have someone offer explinations.
How did the conspiritors manage to have aircaft hi- jacked, then get two radio controlled Boeing 757s, off the ground at the exact right time as the hi-jacked aircraft, fly the drones to Manhatten, hit the towers, and decieve everyone into thinkng, they were the two hijacked 757s? They even managed to have the same tail numbers as the hi-jacked aircraft. I’ve seen blowups pictures of the aircraft just prior to their striking the buildings. The tail numbers were the same as the hi-jacked aircraft. That is amazing plannng and co-ordination of a master plan.
Second and third questions. Why were there over sixty recorded cell phone calls made from passengers to loved ones, and many of the victems stated, they were flying at a low altitude, passing near tall buildings and then heading straight towards the twin towers. What happened to those two 757 aircraft, if the two that hit the twin towers were not the hi-jacked aircraft but radio controlled aircraft, as Tiberius Bond asserts?
There is no question the two aircraft that struck the buildings were indeed 757s and if Bond is correct, the 757s were radio controlled bombs. The two aircraft carrying hundreds of passengers, many making phone calls and saying they could see they were near the twin towers, just vanished into thin air; what happened to them?
BTW. I was a jet engine techincian for many years. There are some titanium parts in jet engines, but only a few internal parts. I have also been on several accident investigations and the jet engines are always almost totaly intact, except for the inlet and exhaust ducts and some external plumbing. That is true even with a massive accident, like slamming straight into a granite mountain for example.
Finally, I certainly do believe the threat of Martial Law is real.
Go to: http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77 for more info on detention faciliteis and plans to use the U.S. Military in the United States. All for the control of the nutsoes in Congress.
THE TRIGGER:
If there’s another major terrorist attack in the US, before an honest President (ever-again?) gets elected, we’el get to see - quick as spit — what happens RE ‘Martial Law.’
Almost certainly, Martial Law will be declared if another ‘attack’ happens while Bush/Cheney are still in office - whether they perped the 9/11 attacks, or whether they perp the new attacks, or not.
It wouldn’t matter who did it. We’d never be able to know for sure “then” –just like we don’t know “now’ about 9/11).
WHAT WE DO KNOW NOW is that we have lying, murderous, psychopaths in charge of the Executive; a near-useless Congress; and a corrupt/complicit mainstream