He would have my vote. I wish he and Kucinich would team up for an "Honesty and Accountability" themed campaign. Both have the record to back it up.

Watching the debates, it's as if the other candidates on stage are sharing a dream and Gravel, when he speaks, is trying to wake them. But they want to keep sleeping, and most of the audience does too. Gravel is so honest, so genuine. If he got some real time to keep talking it seems like the big fantasy would break down (Biden says Gravel's in Happy Land, but Biden's simply projecting). Obama and Hillary look unworthy of our consideration in the moments Gravel puts it to them. But that dark Machiavelli region of our individual brains whispers "He's un-electable!" Most of us listen. Likewise, most who say they vote for the candidate are full of it. The usual voter's choice, like the football fan's choice, is usually made on the gamble for the win. The mediocre and slick will always have an advantage over the best. Just look at Romney.

Truth causes uneasiness to spread across the arena. What a sad commentary on the level of "debate"
Gravel is right and he has my vote if he's still running when the California primary comes around.

Great article Mr. Ridgeway. Funny how the best candidates always seem to be the ones on the fringes. The ones with less Big Money support. The MSM "polls", it's articles, TV spots and constant pundit attention to what one or the other said, convince us of the inevitability of the Big Money candidates getting elected. And we follow right along like lambs to slaughter. Our generation may not see any change because although we all vote, most of us still depend on the MSM for our information. The hope lies on the Internet generation. We have the makings of direct democracy online, but have not organized enough to be able to propose laws and vote for them.

Gravel has the answer to our non-representative democracy. If only formerly non-voting young people will rise up and vote in the National Initiative, and/or vote for Greens, our government could soon give us the benefits the Swiss enjoy. Thanks to their direct democratic system, Switzerland is a country with no natural resources, but with the highest per capita income in the world and no wars in over 150 years although surrounded by warring nations.

I LOVE THIS GUY! Out of all the candidated out there, this guy is the one. He speaks truth to power, can any other candidate say as much? He's seen the system, been part of the system and knows it's rotten to the core. Better yet, he seems to genuinely want to change it. Bravo, you have my vote Mr. Gravel...

Please keep this man in the debates! He is a voice of reason and wipes the makeup off the face of the smooth answers of the rest of "Our Gang."

I love this guy too. at first i thought he was crazy as a loon. not the things he was saying, just his delivery. then a few weeks ago i read about his history with the vietnam war and pentagon papers. The rest of them on stage, like them or not, compared to Gravel are just hot air politicians who've never taken an stand against expediency, but Mike Gravel is a true american hero, an honest to goodness profile in courage who should get the utmost respect from all those pretenders. (Exception to the above: Dennis Kucinich who is also a profile in courage for his stand against the energy company when he was Clevelnad's boy mayor.)

The Press will not allow Mr. Gravel a front row center pass. They have chosen their candidates and that's that. How sad. Mr. Gravel needs to run his campaign entirely on the internet. He is a breath of fresh air, so of course he isn't going to raise millions from corporations (which is entirely disgusting.) I am totally turned off by the debates as the major players come preprogrammed with pleasant platitudes that their policy makers have written. Mr. Gravel obviously speaks for not only himself but for all Americans. Travel with Gravel!

I was struck by his response to the loaded question about his saying the deaths in Viet Nam were in vain. He answered assertively... yes, they died in vain. What did they die for? What was the great threat we had to stop? You can now go at a Baskin & Robbins in Hanoi; Viet Nam now shares a highly, if not MOST, favored nation trading status with us. The only threat Viet Nam poses is to the Chinese in competing for shelf space in American markets.

Yes, Gravel said, they died in vain. And the only thing WORSE than dying in vain is having MORE die in vain.

I was struck by his response to the loaded question about his saying the deaths in Viet Nam were in vain. He answered assertively... yes, they died in vain. What did they die for? What was the great threat we had to stop? You can now go to a Baskin & Robbins in Hanoi; Viet Nam now shares a highly, if not MOST, favored nation trading status with us. The only threat Viet Nam poses is to the Chinese in competing for shelf space in American markets.

Yes, Gravel said, they died in vain. And the only thing WORSE than dying in vain is having MORE die in vain.

Gravel advocates the Steve Forbes billionaire "flat tax." Screw that.

Mike Gravel has my support for 2008. I respect Kucinich and Ron Paul (R) as well. All the other candidates are just hairdo flavor of the month type candidates that the MSM likes to build up.

America is in really, really bad shape. When a candidate finally has the balls to come out and tell it like it is - exactly what Johnson and Kennedy both did - but meanwhile have no chance in hell of getting elected, we are ....(insert expletive here).

Gravel is in the wrong party. the Democrats have never been the party of the working class. they're the party of Jim Crow segregation and pawns of big business. all the reforms they "gave" to us were won by hard work from mass, independent movements. the party has merely co-opted those movements and stolen their legacy.

even if Gravel could get himself elected things wouldn't change in congress. you can't change the system from the inside, only from the outside. the people who run it have a material interest in upholding the status quo.

Gavel is my kinda crazy..the Wise Old Grampa who will always look out for no matter what you kinda crazy.

Bush and Cheney are the scary kinda crazy...the if their in your house sleep with the bedroom door locked kinda crazy.

Hillary, Obama, Edwards are the corporate kinda crazy...crazy for corporate money and power.

Give 'em Hell Gravel!

He has what it takes image-wise to pull it off, he's "grandfatherly," strong, and can look you in the eye honest. When the Dims choose Hillary, he should break with the sleazebags and run as in independent.

the problem I see with a sales tax instead of income tax is: lower income people typically have to spend 110% of their income just to support themselves, therefore, every penny they earn is taxed, plus even the money they borrow is taxed.

The rich, on the other hand, only have to spend a small portion of their income to support themselves, therefor only a portion of their income is taxed. It is also ripe for abuse...I can just see it now..

"I didn't BUY this Lambrogini...the company just loaned it to me on a 10 year test drive, in exhange for me loaning them $100,000 that I will never ask to be returned"

Gravel has said that taxes collected on basics, (food, rent . . .) would be rebated in monthly checks to lower income citizens.

I would support a flat tax over a national sales tax. It's to regressive. Further, I think a truely progressive income tax makes more sense. Graduated from maybe 2% on up to 90%. I think that that upper 1% of fat cats can afford that. It might even get their attention.

And I really loved Mike Gravel in the last debate. Kept folks on their toes. I also think Kucinich did very well. In my opinion, the only problem is Gravel's age and diplomatic demeanor as it would apply to foreign affairs.

I love both of these guys - Kucinich & Gravel in 2008!

Gravel is smarter than the other candidates, but he doesn't stand a chance because (1) Our country is lost to a duopoly of political power between Rebuplicans and Democrats, and (2) He would fail to win the support of the Israel lobby, which has made our once-great country into a mercenary satellite of Israel. Gravel would have the gall to implement sensible policies in the interest of its citizens, not policies for multinational corporations and Israel.

why is it that the 3 most interesting candidates (and they all have their problems), Paul, Gravel, and Kucinich, get the least attention?

i like gravel a lot, but i get the feeling he's a tick away from a heart attack watching him sputter in frustration at the lunacy of his fellow travelers in the Dim party.

this guy's all right. now all he has to do is come down on the side of women, be willing to take on the male patriarchy that rules the world. then the shit would hit the fan.

Gravel is too REAL for mainstream America. He's like the uncle who scolds you for doing something wrong while your parents look the other way.

As long as he is allowed to continue in the national Democratic debates and Hillary and Edwards don't have their way with "reducing" the number of players, Gravel will eventually be able to wake up more Americans to the phoney politics and cronyism in the party "that once stood for the ordinary working man." I love this guy, Uncle Mike.

money money
money
money

How much money have you given to gravel or dk?

there are 300 million americans

you think our personal "progressive" monies can't buy air and paper time too?

or is all this political ranting more about an identity for you (rather than about people)hence, you aint giving up $10.

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS PEOPLE!

HEY ZEUS...

i CARE SO MUCH

I CARE SOOOOOO MUCH

I CARE SOOOOOOOO MUCH

THAT IM LEFT WITH NO ENERGY TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

INSTEAD OF WEARING BRAND NAME CLOTHES AND NOT VOTING (LIKE THE "SHEEPLE" YOU RIP ON),

YOU WEAR GREEN PARTY SHIRTS AND VOTE ONCE IN A WHILE-----

ITS SUCH BULLSHIT.

YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT. NO BETTER. NO MORE VALUABLE.

IF YOU CARE SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH,

PUT YOUR MONEY AND BODY WHERE YOUR BIG LOUD ASS YAPPING MOUTHS ARE.

AH---BUT ALAS, YOUR SMALL ASS LIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SUFFERING ASS WORLD YOU CRY TO THE HANDFULL OF PEOPLE THAT STILL LISTEN TO YOUR SMALL CRYING ASS SELF.

YOU ARE SOOOOO FUCKING FAKE.

YOU REALLY DON'T EVEN CARE THIS MUCH;

$1.

In an empire, there are only two political questions of much importance: (1) who NOW wears the purple; and (2) who WILL wear the purple in future.

Americans are being quickly acclimated to these truths by (1) the VERY premature campaign for president, presently in progress (for the full four-year term, beginning 20 January 2009); and (2) Congress and the judiciary disqualifying themselves from participation in the government, by carefully AVOIDING confrontations with the president. [How can one claim to be a fighter (contestant), without climbing into the ring occasionally?]

There is historical precedent. On the single occasion Elizabeth I sought her parliament's advice on a matter of foreign policy; parliament protested their incompetence to advise her! Foreign affairs, they argued, were the province of "statesmen."

Two rigged presidential elections, in 2000 and 2004, have persuaded many Americans their emperors are no longer elected--certainly not by them. Yet, the lack of significant, or indeed of any protest, to the ending of elections, must mean the country by and large PREFERS Diebold's wizardry to the power struggles and frequent violence, which so often accompanied the imperial succession in other realms.

So, without a bang or a whimper, we go placidly into that good night.

Ever notice how corporate favorites get coverage of every stupid little thing that they do?

Every stupid show picks it up and runs with it.

Gravel and Kuchinich are avoided like the plague.
---

Flat Tax? It's only on NEW items, used items are NOT taxed.

Gravel is correct that Congress is more powerful than the President, and it seems burningly urgent to get that notion firmly embedded in the minds of our congresspersons and our fellow countrymen and women. Capitulating to the presumed power of a runaway Executive is a complete abdication. When the Executive is generating disasters faster than it's humanly possible to report on them, is precisely the time to realize the Executive SERVES AT THE PLEASURE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!

Fair Tax

DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE MIKE GRAVEL IS FOR REAL TAX REFORM:

* ABOLISH THE INCOME TAX AND THE IRS
* SET UP A PROGRESSIVE SALES TAX

It's called a FAIR TAX.

The way in which a government raises revenue is a critical indication of how fair it will be to its citizens.

The U.S. Income Tax system is unfair to its citizens and crippling to the economy.

Both the Income Tax and the Sales Tax systems are generically progressive:

* with Income, you're taxed on what you earn
* with Sales, you're taxed on what you spend

But the U.S. Income Tax system is unfair and regressive because Americans earning less than $97,400 pay a larger portion of their income in taxes than those who earn more than $97,400.

The following applies to both Income and Sales tax systems:

* To be fair, a tax system must have total transparency––each taxpayer must know what s/he is paying and what everyone else is paying.
* To be fair, a tax system cannot have any exceptions. One exception opens the door to those who can afford to game the system.
* To be fair, a tax system must be simple. The more complex it is, the easier it is to game the system.

Our income tax code is riddled with exceptions and incentives that the 30,000 lobbyists in Washington have secured and continue to secure for their clients. Little wonder the code is incomprehensible and has a compliance cost to the private sector of $270 billion a year.

After serving eight years on the Senate Finance Committee, my choice to meet the fairness criteria is to junk the income tax with all its exceptions, close the IRS, and establish a sales tax––without exceptions.

Much demagoguery swirls around issues of taxation:

* "Soak the rich" is one approach, but it never happens regardless of whether the liberals or conservatives hold political power. The wealthy have the money to game the system.
* "Tax the corporations" is another approach, but corporate taxes are built into the cost of products or services, so consumers are actually paying those taxes, too. It's a hidden sales tax.

I subscribe to a sales tax system, most of which is included in what is called the Fair Tax. The Fair Tax meets the fairness criteria: simplicity, transparency and no exceptions.

What sales tax rate will be applied to all new products and services?

The goal is to keep tax reform revenue-neutral. It is not a tax-cut program. Whatever the tax rate on new goods and services that will produce the same amount of money currently raised by the income tax is the sales tax rate. Best estimates indicate that the rate would be somewhere between 20 and 25%. Also, best estimates indicate that it would take a year to transition from one system to the other.

The PREBATE

One of the most exciting features of the Fair Tax is the monthly payments to individuals and/or families to reimburse them for the tax they pay on the essentials of life (food, shelter, clothing, medicine). The amount of the Prebate is calculated by multiplying the cost of essentials by the tax rate. The resulting tax is divided into 12 equal payments and sent on the first of each month to consumers who have registered annually for the program. The progressiveness of the Fair Tax can be determined by adjusting the amounts selected for the prices paid for essentials, which should not be taxed in the first place. However, giving these essentials an exception from the sales tax opens the door for wealth to game the system and we are back with the problems we have in the income tax system.

The Congress will never enact such a radical reform because it dilutes their power to control and focus the economy to accomplish social goals and ,of course, limits their ability of Congress to reward their special-interest friends who donate money to their political campaigns. In my judgment, Americans will have to vote to enact the National Initiative, becoming legislators like their elected lawmakers, in order to make the Fair Tax the law of the land. (www.NationalInitiative.us)

Fair Tax Facts

Taxes you on what you spend––not on what you earn. So American consumers with low or moderate incomes will automatically pay less in taxes.

Government revenues from individuals are presently funded by payroll deductions from 110 million workers, and from corporate taxes. Under the Fair Tax, government revenues will be funded by more than 300 million consumers, including visiting tourists, and tax cheats who previously reported little or nothing to the IRS.

Eliminates federal deductions on your paycheck for income taxes, Social Security and Medicare.

Social Security and Medicare will be fully funded by the Fair Tax

Restores individual privacy. The government no longer needs to know where you work, what you earn, or what you do with your earnings.

Saves up to $270 billion per year that federal tax compliance currently costs our economy.

Dramatically reduces the price of new products and services, estimated at 20-25%, because corporations no longer need to hide these costs in the retail prices that are now passed on to consumers. This reduction equals the present income taxes being paid.

Creates jobs and economic growth in the U.S. by reducing operating costs to companies.

Encourages international investment in the American economy.

Businesses, and state and local governments collecting the sales tax will keep a small percentage to reimburse themselves for the cost of collecting and forwarding the funds to the U.S. Treasury.

Encourages the re-use products and the purchase of tax-free, pre-owned products.

Changes our consumption-based economy to a savings-based economy, warding off the oncoming fiscal crisis over commercial and private debt.

Saves about 300,000 trees each year that are currently needed to produce all the paperwork for IRS compliance and tax forms

Makes U.S. goods more competitive overseas and more affordable at home, thereby increasing job creation while reducing our balance of payments deficit.

Eliminates corporate taxes and the costs of compliance. These costs are currently hidden in the price consumers pay for the company's product or services

Changes the American economy – the largest economic entity in the world – into the largest tax haven in the world, enticing international investments in the American economy. Also creates a level of growth (estimated at 10%) and prosperity that will permit the nation to lower government debt and balance the budget, better finance education, health care, transportation, and the rebuilding of our national infrastructure.

"The Democratic Party used to stand for the ordinary working man. But the Clintons and the DLC sold out … to Wall Street. Look at where all the money is being raised right now, for Hillary, Obama and Edwards. It's the hedge funds, it's Wall Street bankers."

How can you not like and respect a man who demands truth-telling? He's a man of wisdom with the cajones and spunk of a 21 year old.

Thank you, Senator Gravel!

I lost most of my interest when he revealed his leanings toward the economic right, as this stupid "fairtax" policy signifies. But he said some great things in those first debates, that I hope have had some impact.

You people are nuts and clearly attracted to one thing and one thing only: candidates who are outsiders in their respective parties and are against the Iraq war.

For such a liberal crowd here, how can any of you support Gravel when he supports a national sales tax? That is the most regressive form of taxation and would hit the lowest income earners the hardest. If you don't understand this, take an economics class.

For such a liberal crowd here, how can you support Ron Paul. He is a libertarian!!! He is against the IRS, against welfare, against Medicare and Medicaid. He is also COMPLETELY against abortion and believes the Constitution does not protect a woman's right to choose. Is this the man you want running the country?

I have come to the conclusion after reading articles here for 4 years and participating in discussion here for the past 2 days that what most of you stand for is a liberal alternative. That is great, and I completely support that. But instead, you rally against what you perceive as the establishment, even if it is with candidates who radically depart from many of our core beliefs, and that is unacceptable. Mike Gravel and Ron Paul are both not viable candidates for one, and two, hold many positions in complete opposition to the things we hold near and dear.

Alkayle is right folks--PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTHS ARE! Kucinich and Gravel are both running campaigns on shoestrings. Money talks unfortunately.

Forget the sales tax replacing the income tax. All that is necessary is to put the income tax back where it was when Reagan decided to make the rich richer and the Repugs are still trying to make the middle class take all of the burden. What would prevent the rich from buying their extravagant purchases offshore --the same place they keep their funds? Except for his tax idea, Gravel is a breath of fresh air and along with Kucinich at least adds a little real truth and common sense to the discussions.

"Them with the gold makes the rules". Unless its: http://ni4d.us/

A national sales tax would allow people to boycott the government in a sense (for good or ill).

National Initiative for Democracy + Tim Eyman = I don't even want to think about it right now.

Economics class, pffff.... OSUgradstudent, you need to take STFU 101 next semester. That's a fallacy called "appeal to ignorance".

The point of the Fair Tax is not so much that it is a "silver bullet" that will fix "The Economy". The point is, a change of the system which sets a precedent that WE THE PEOPLE hold sway over our government. No taxation without representation, get it? The only thing we MUST NOT DO is nothing. And it could work, although surely it will need some tweaking. By us, not them.

We have to TAKE the power back from this fascist plutocracy, and Mike Gravel leads with brilliant vision toward a peaceful resolution to what otherwise must be a class war.

He must be elected. If this fails, it will be business as usual in D.C., until the courageous patriots of this country rise up to NEUTRALIZE the criminal constituents of the Religious-Corporate conspiracy. Perhaps that means simply removing them from office for dereliction of duty, arresting and prosecuting as appropriate. But let's not forget that these people have built an army of mercenaries called Blackwater. Oh, and there's Halliburton. We don't know much about them, do we? Curious.

PEACE, of course. But not without liberty. Liberty first. And our liberty is in grave danger. Stand fast. The future is what we make of it.

Elect Mike Gravel. Let him defuse this situation.

Support Gravel here. I did.

Gravel has very good ideas then he goes to the extreme and loses his credibility as all extremist do. And its a shame, he hits the nail on the head most of the time.

Kucinich has the best and most reasonable agenda in my opinion, but as we all know, there's no chance at all. He just makes too much sense....and he answers yes or no when someone asks him a question. He even answers the question they ask him! How refreashing is that???

The problem is the majority of American's either don't pay attention to who is running or depend on the mainstream corporate media (that same media that mislead us into the Iraq misadventure) for all their information. Until that changes, this country will be stuck with two candidates to choose from in the same party...the corporate party.

Even if someone like Gravel did have the support of millions of Americans, would our corporate media report it since its not their candidate of choice. If you trust those polls they put out than you are also putting your trust in them.

gravel and kucinich should have coordinated their debates a little better. they both could have increased each others numbers by timely and appropriat propaganda designed to highlight their many great qualities and positions on the issues. i understand they are running against each other, but by providing a united front they would gain more credibility than both appearing as loners. look how they have them both as far away fronm the center of the stage and each other as possible. : )

OSUgradstudent:
I can't speak for the other crazy people commenting here, but after years of Democrat's big rhetoric about changing things, then at every opportunity giving in to corporate interests... we really need anti-establishment people.

For me, anti-establishment is anti-monopoly and anti-corporate. Someone unwilling to stand up to health-insurance corps can't fight for single-payer health-care. Someone who can't stand up to oil/coal corps, can't fight for renewable energy. Someone who can't stand up to defense contractors, can't end the Iraq war.

How can you say Obama who wants to increase defense spending is a better candidate than Gravel? How many times has he really pissed off the health-care industry, oil companies or defense contractors? Not enough.

If it comes down to Paul VS Obama, I'd vote for Paul.

Ron Paul scares the shit out of defense contractors, big oil companies and agri-business companies because he wants to end all subsidies.

Sure he thinks global warming is from volcanoes, black people cause crime, and students should have to pay everything for college... but you know what, the federal government gives me NOTHING worthwhile, and anarchy at the federal level (not the state level who manage police and fire-fighters) is better than what exists now. If somebody ended subsidies for coal and nuclear, wind power would actually have a chance. Without subsidies big agri-business wouldn't be able to dominate our food supply, and without contractor hand-outs there would be no way to pay for war.

Obama/Clinton/Edwards are all business as usual, just look at their voting records. I don't care about their rhetoric... Gravel, Kucinich and Paul are the better candidates.

People should vote in the primaries, change the Democrat/Republican parties to be anti-establishment. The reason we have to change them from the inside is because the structure of the system is rigged against third parties. Anyway, that's a whole other discussion, my point is that I think Gravel and others would accomplish more as President than Obama, that's why he's my choice so far.

Gravel is right on the mark--there will be no change in the war, health care, or poverty issues if either Clinton, Edwards, or Obama get elected. They are all funded by big money, big pharma, big everything--they are not of the people, by the people, for the people.

RE: THE ATTRACTION OF GRAVEL - NOT JUST HIS IDEAS; BUT HOW HE DEBUNKS INSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY

Don't think a lot of the U.S. electorate is "there." But - regardless of whether we agree w/all his views - Gravel's screw-the-'I-respectfully-disagree'-etiquette, speak-truth-to-authority' approach is populist and powerful.

Ezeflyer: Thank you for your explanation of the ins and outs of sales tax over income tax. There is no mention of savings. Would this encourage citizens to save more? And, would there be an equivilent interest rate for savings, or would it just be a 'place' to store any excess funds one might have?