Just curious.

How many of you commenting here were in DC yesterday?

What needs to happen in this country to let the politicians know that they are not the ones who get to make the decisions? John Conyers has obviously been personally threatened with death and/or dismemberment by Bush, otherwise he would not have turned around this way. This is the way Bush gets his way. It's a mobster thing, to be sure, but who do we think wired those buildings in NYC with demo charges? The american kristallnacht can't be that far away if we let it happen. Perhaps the people of this country will rise up but the police state will be ready. Mobs in the streets will mean lots of spilled blood. Do politicians respond to pressure? Only when that pressure is coming from something they can smell.

There was a very interesting observation by a French citizen in Michael Moore's movie "Sicko":

In France the government is afraid of the people but in America, the people are afraid of their government.

I think that sums up the problem very eloquently. So how do we get our government to fear us?

when will the realization come that change does not occur through channels afforded by the institutions of the status quo? we need BOTH non- violent and violent means, we need a unified program of insurrection, we need more than 40 people willing to be arrested at a member of congress's office. we need people willing to sacrifice themselves, willing to be crushed in the cogs of this odious machine, at the very hands of those willing to bear arms against there fellow citizens. the elite will never give up power willingly. the question remains, will we (the masses) in a complicit riven already blood soaked society find the passion, desire, and character to confront the states monopoly on violence and those that support it? indeedm there will have to be bodies stacked up in the streets of our cities...indeed, there already are....so why do we hesitate?

"Until impeachment there are NO Democratic candidates for President."

The raging words against the Democrats in Congress and against Conyers and Pelosi in these and other posts seem so extreme and inappropriate. It's clear that both Pelosi and Conyers hold a significant interest in stopping the war and holding the administration accountable for its treasonous acts. What the heck are activists hoping to accomplish by raking their common-interest congressmen and women across the coals? Democrats in Congress are hard-pressed to pass legislation to de-fund the war, and impeach this administration. Why are we vilifying them?

I would respectfully remind those claiming there's no difference between the Dems and Reps that Nader ran around using the same argument. Does anyone seriously believe that Gore would have been the same as or worse than Bush? We played this dangerous game before and the world lost big time. This is no time to repeat that mistake. I am as frustrated as anyone about the current state of affairs, but I refuse to allow another corrupt, war mongering Republican to complete the destruction of this country. I am not fond of all of the Democrats, but any one of them would be an improvement. We are close enough to the abyss so that degrees of difference matter. The German people weren't fond of Hitler, but they were fed up with the alternative and the result was a horrifying disaster. Unfortunately, as bad as conditions are now things can always get worse.

Mr Conyers, Impeachment is a process by which the House decides, AFTER hearings have been held, whether or not to hand the subjects over to the Senate for trial.
How precient of you to know in advance what that decision would be.
I know, being a professional politician involves a finely honed ability to count.
Maybe that's the problem. Too many professional politicians who know how to count: Votes, campaign contributions, favors done in return, and how many of the pesky people show up to interrupt their otherwise idyllic existence.
I hope there is some credible person in Conyer's district to run against him in a primary race.
As for Pelosi, I didn't know she was that rich but it doesn't surprise me.
I'm really sick of the idea that us poor working stiffs and small farmers and retirees can be represented by the members of the Millionaires Club.
As the old Wobblies used to say: The working class can only be freed by the workers themselves.

lost_progressive,

I will take it that you are being sarcastic.

You can call your members of Congress now toll free at 866-338-1015, 800-459-1887 or 800-614-2803. Phone Chairman Conyers at 202-225-5126 and ask him to support HR 333 and to start the impeachment of Dick Cheney; and phone your own Congress Member at 202-224-3121 and ask them to immediately call Conyers' office to express their support for impeachment.

As Frederick Douglass said, "Agitate, agitate, agitate

badavis...
don't sell out. Use your vote and have faith. Dennis can win if we ALL believe.

interesting post about Peloisi being "encouraged" to behave...

well, you guys in the US seems you really are up against it...if your dems wont do the deal they promised then Bush has no opposition at all; a few more of these blogs and Martial Law is not a threat, it's a promise. A neutered USA at home with internal strife leaves the way back for Putin and the Chinese. Of course, Bush and his backers are obviously planning something that will completely paralyse any opposition.....you had better be quick, quiet and damned effective...................tx and good luck

oh, and I am mindful that your government and mine have an international treaty which gives your people the right to extradite any Brit without argument from our legal people and can do so without the need to produce ANY Evidence of wrong-doing.Your government suspicion or claim is enough. Now, I wonder how that all came about. You have a few of our people locked up already (the Nat West bank 3 were taken last year without as much as a squeak from our politicians!) if they can do that to foreign nationals, I dont give your own people much chance....is it true about all these new prisons that are supposedly being built by ?Halliburton?

Conyers is one of the good guys, even somewhat of a radical compared to the other bastards, and he's among the very best in congress. 95% are corrupt, and he's not one of them. I think you dear peacemongers are over simplifying the matter and making far too many ill informed assumptions.

As Conyers suggests, we have to go for what is attainable. Hell he knows about the totalitarian powers that are hidden behind the USA's mask of democracy and what they will allow and won't.

Without a major uprising and revolution, the positive changes are going to be gradual, like it or not. They're coming too fast for some and too slow for others. Keep fighting by all means, but please beware of being too naive and counterproductive!

---------

"Be bold, but be sensible, for boldness is [often] a child of baseness."
Basil King

Screw both parties. If a viable 3rd party candidate doesn't run I'm gonna just sit this out. I am never gonna vote again anyway as long as there's only 2 parties to pick from. I'm sick and tired of voting for the 'lesser of 2 evils'. As far as I'm concerned they're all in bed together. I said this the night of the state of the union message by numbnuts. As he was walking in Pelosi had a dreamy eyed look on her face like she was gonna do a Monica Lewinsky on the motherflucker.

know_buddee July 24th, 2007 6:20 pm
Conyers is one of the good guys,

No he's not. He's a whore like the rest of them - he sold everyone out.

Impeachment would serve no purpose because Democrats would be unable to convict and remove Bush and Cheney. It would thus be a waste of time and prevent other important parts of the Democrats' agenda by OSUgradstudente

They must teach shit at Ohio state because you have no clue as to what its intent really is - at least from many of our perspectives. It would TELL THE WORLD that not all of us in this country are morons and that we will not stand for criminals in the white house! It's a message to the world. Get it yet? Even if it fails it would send a loud message.

Does anyone OTHER than me see a problem with accusing the Democrats of being "losers," and then insisting that they attempt a course of action that is GUARANTEED to fail? They don't have the votes. Just what exactly is "Losing some more" supposed to prove?

The Republican-controlled house impeached Clinton, and look how much damage that did, even though his vindication by the Democratically controlled Senate was never in doubt. Check out the vote-count. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton#Senate_vote:_perjury_charge
It's a good refresher on how Impeachment actually works, by the way.

That's said, they DON'T have the votes. Then again, look at the AMAZING political points the Republicans scored even without being able to convict... Yeah, your'e right: Pelosi, Conyers et al ARE spineless sellouts, aren't they?

ducklady July 24th, 2007 4:23 pm
So how do we get our government to fear us?

I think the answer is obvious. Let me put it this way - didn't the French have a revolution and use the gullotine on people that bush probably loved? Soooo.... [g]

And for all these reasons and more, I support the idea of Cynthia McKinney running for president as an independent peace and justice candidate (like Ms. Sheehan is doing against Ms. Pelosi, or as the nominee of the Green Party, or some new independent progresive party. Like this:

http://myspace.com/draftmckinney2008

So many ideas I agree with (term limits, voting all incumbents out, etc.). However, as has been proven, our ability and energy is limited. We must finish what we started and keep incredible pressure on all of Congress to impeach. If we don't, we are setting a precedent that our children will condemn us for. We must show them how to fight back, even if we think we'll lose. We must.

Two comments:

First, lksafford is right that Conyers did not necessarily sell out. Conyers ALREADY carried out an investigation in 2006, without virtue of subpoena power, and made a compelling case in an enormous report. It didn't work. The Conyers report didn't turn the tide. We all know this. The public is convinced, but the media and the politicians are not. The votes are not there.

We all need to push our congress-persons to sign on to this. If the democrats in the house vote yes, the impeachment proceedings will begin.

Second, beginning IS ALL THAT MATTERS. That is, I disagree completely with OSUgradstudent who says that impeachment in the house if futile since the 2/3 majority needed for conviction in the senate is unlikely. Remember, NIXON WAS NOT IMPEACHED. He resigned in disgrace before the trial phase was done (before it started? can't recall exactly), because preliminary hearings exposed his crimes for the world to see.

Right now Bush and the repubs and the mass media are scared. They are scared of the spectacle of a public trial that strikes at the heart of what our government does. This time, its not just a matter of one person with a loose zipper-- its about warmongering and despotism, its about a cabal of power-mongers run amok, guided by an anti-democratic anti-rights political philosophy.

But if there is a public trial, can anyone doubt the outcome? Bush is guilty as sin. With subpoena power, congress can prove this.

Once the trial begins, Bush's auro of invincibility will vanish, the media will turn against him and say all of the things they should have been saying for years (because now it will be official news from congress, the only kind of news they can report). All the Republican leaders are all *on record* (from the Clinton trial) saying that the president is not above the law. The mass media pundits are going to make them eat their words.

Its all about the house vote, people, so don't let this week go by without calling or faxing your rep (email doesn't work, they get too many of those). Lets get to work!

Uh, hate to throw cold water, but the Brits have a far harsher policy with respect to detention without trial than the US. I'm just sayin'...

Notice to Congress: JUST LEAD & THE ELECTIONS WILL TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES!

Notice to Democrats: Patriots of all stripes have flocked to your side since 2004, in one last attempt to work within the system. You have a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY, but a VERY SMALL WINDOW, to increase your numbers and return to being THE PARTY OF THE PEOPLE.

You must hear the RUMBLE of the PEOPLE, and become the VOICE of the PEOPLE, or you will surely lose the newfound PASSION of the PARTY. If you do not know, it is WE THE PEOPLE who are propping you up.

SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY, or GET OUT OF THE WAY. I can say it no clearer: all who voted for this war, or to legalize torture are in defiance of the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions. We have not overlooked your complicity in these crimes. DO YOUR DUTY or we will hold all of you accountable as accomplices. Be mindful of your own role in these crimes. This is not idle chatter; the LAW of the LAND is on our side.

Either you are with us, or you are against us. There are only two parties: the PATRIOTS and the LOYALISTS. Choose today which side you are on, and be judged accordingly.

If you are under threat, go public and announce it, as Hugo Chavez has done. Would that a single one of you were as brave as the little brown man, who had the nerve to call the devil out.

To the Democratic Candidates: The question is not whether you would meet with Chavez; the question is whether he would meet with you. He did not generate the ill will that exists between our countries. Bush did. Calling names and issuing threats is what cowards do, and embarrasses all Americans; attempting assassination of a democratically elected president of a foreign country is against the law; interfering in the elections of foreign countries is against the law. The American government is not superior; it just has the biggest gun. It will not always be so.

To Bush: you have endangered the lives of all Americans with your juvenile tactics. You have no understanding of cause and effect. You have failed to protect the constitution as you are sworn to do; quite to the contrary, you have done your best to destroy it. For this reason alone, you are unfit for duty. You are an illegitimate president, engaged in an illegal war. You have robbed Americans of their treasure, their reputation in the world, and their pride. You are a DISGRACEFUL, ILLEGITIMATE SON, who has brought shame upon us all. You have broken the Geneva Conventions and you have broken faith with the American People and the World at large. You have committed murder on a scale with the worst players ever on the world stage. You stand a condemned man, by popular opinion, in all the world. If you have one ounce of decency about you, RESIGN YOUR POST, disinfect your office, and BE GONE FROM US.

Sen. Gravel and Rep. Kucinich: WE HEAR YOU.

Sen. Edwards: LISTEN TO US. You're on the right track, but you have a ways to go.

To all on this forum: Stay the fight. The enemy is exposed; there is no turning back.
Someday soon, we must march on Washington and we must be prepared to stay until the deed is done. Remember yourselves. Do not become what you despise. Break no laws, and harm no one. Your cause is just; it can stand on its own merits. Take your case to the courts. Be mindful that the world is waiting and watching. If there is a shred of our reputation left, we must not destroy it. When the Americans come, let them come in peace, and speak with a unified voice, for all the world to hear.

How does it really matter if Pelosi or any other member of the Democratic party was threatened, cajoled or coaxed by a Republican, a Republican thug, a member of the Democratic leadership or whoever.
The fact is nobody among the elite political circles in Washington is doing the right thing. Not only are they not doing the right thing, but down to the last man and woman, they are aiding and abetting evil every where you care to look:
Iraq-millions killed, country turned into the 2nd level of hell.
U. S. Environment: going, going, gone-with the assistance of many wonderful Senators like Debbie Stabenow and Carl Levin who are bending over backwards to make sure the U. S. car companies, stuck in the ditch, are given our last breath of fresh air to pull themselves out of their self made quagmire.
U. S. job picture-worsening every decade so Walmart can obtain a better return on their dollar. Plan here?
Impoverish more workers, enrich Walmart, and we'll all only have one place to shop-Walmart.
I could go on but every where you look, the people in power, and yes Virginia, even Dennis Kucinich would not be able to change this,get stronger.
People in power in the Oval Office, (does anyone think pretty girl Clinton will return all the power Bush has grabbed in the last six years?), people in power in the Dept of Defense, inside the marble halls of Langley, VA; all of these people have taken over the U. S. government.
Want a change? Fire those folks in power-there's about
1,767,000; make certain 535 folks who sit under the big dome from time to time are the first to go.
Then we can talk about change.
Until then, stay sober, stay in touch and watch your back.

"Uh, hate to throw cold water, but the Brits have a far harsher policy with respect to detention without trial than the US. I'm just sayin'..."

The Brits are a pretty bad source of inspiration when it comes to individual rights & freedoms. That's a large part of why we had the revolutionary war, you know. Barracked a red-coat lately?

go here:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/debates/scorecard/youtube.debate/

to vote for Dennis.

Let's show some support for a non-monied candidate!

IMPEACHMENT FOR BUSH AND CHENEY...

Where do I sign...

After a good exchange last week, I find myself agreeing with Salia when s/he says the Conyers is not alone is betraying the people. We are stuck with a congressional leadership which is more scared of a nebulous undefined fear than any real danger.

What are these "representatives of the people" afraid of? WHile we come at it from differing foundations, Saila and I, I believe, would be the first in line if any Congressman of stature, [no offense meant to the Kuchies and Gravels who have been marginalized by the MSM], had the balls to do what needed to be done: Get on board the train that 60% of Americans are already on. What danger is that to them?.

In selling you're taught that the worst thing a prospect can do to you is tell you "no". S/He can't physically harm you. What if a congressperson got up and said "I believe the majority of my constituents want me to sign onto HR 333" What's the worst that could happen? Maybe they wouldn't get re-elected, maybe they would, but by making the stand, by actually doing what his/her constituency instructed, whether you agree with or not, you gotta give credit.

Why are there no leaders in Congress? Because the People's House is not the House of the People. It is USCongress, Inc, where the job of the employees is to keep their jobs, not do their work: representing the people who employ them.

Disgusted? Yep. Wasting any more time? Nope the next election is too far off to matter, so it's back into the cave. WTF, I bought a t-shirt this weekend. It says, "Quit Bitchin' Start a Revolution" but it didn't come with an instruction book, and I'm not that good a leader. Hell, I can't even get along with Saila.

Cindy's right on one thing. The only language these politicos understand is the ultimatum. Cindy promised to run against Pelosi unless Pelosi acted -- I suspect she'll follow through. Given the current national opinions of both the Repugs and the Dims, it wouldn't take forever to organize a meaningful third party -- it could be done as a coordinated series of write-in campaigns.

The Dims can't or won't give his W-ness a date certain for withdrawal of troops, and aren't willing to bring the impeachment arguments (and evidence) into the spotlight. Too important that they protect the inside-the-Beltway class. I suggest we give them a date certain for withdrawal of support -- impeach (Cheney first) or become involuntarily retired.

thaddeusstephens said "Senators Debbie Stabenow and Carl Levin are bending over backwards to make sure the U.S. car companies..."

Uh, I am not the most observant guy in the world, but imagining Carl Levin bending over backwards would be a rather cumbersome and painful task without seeing him pop a few buttons and collapse under his own weight. Just an observation Carl, nothing personal.

Believing a Democrat is like putting a fox in the henhouse.

Big Protest coming up. Aimed at all of these bumps on a log...

http://www.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=S15_homepage

I don't know if Cindy is doing the right thing or the wrong thing. All I know is that she is doing SOMETHING! If you go on over to Daily Kos and lurk on their comments, it's a whole different world than it is here. It's very strange.

I agree that their is no difference between the two parties. The vast majority in both parties have been bought and sold. But I also believe that there are some truely good people from both sides in both parties. All you have to do, as a progressive, is look at the names of the folks that have signed on to HR333. I would postulate that there are a lot of old time Repubs that believe in fiscal responsibility that are none too happy with their party either.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water in '08. The test is going to be which congress critters vote for ending the occupation of Iraq, not invading Iran or Pakistan, and who supports impeachment. You all need to let your reps know that this is a test and that you are watching them every step of the way.If you already know that they aren't worth a vote, mobilize in your State or district to find someone to run against them that is.

Cindy might be on to something. Here in Oregon, Gordon Smith HAS to be unseated. All of the good guys have other things to do. But we're working on it.

Thanks for listening

A strong third party that truely represents the people that put them is office would be ideal. Being fairly realistic, however, I don't think that is a winning strategy for '08. I think that Cindy's approach of challenging Pelosi in the Dem primary is a good strategy. It would be an excellent strategy against ANY incumbant Dem that has proven that they don't represent us, the people. If Cindy and others win in the primaries, what is the DLC going to do? Not support them? That would be pretty stupid. If Cindy and the others don't win the Dem nomination, then they can go and run as independents. In districts where the Dems are pretty strong, I would bet that Repug support would come out of the woodwork. Just like it did in Conn. for that traitor Joe.

Poet

Yes, what do you suggest?

Watching the Bill Moyers Journal regarding impeachment was extremely helpful to me and I encourage any who have not seen it yet to take some time and do so. Bruce Fein and John Nichols made it very clear that this isn't about Bush and Cheney. This is about our country being in a constitutional crisis and the only, the ONLY cure is impeachment. I agree with those who say it must happen even if there aren't enough votes. It is the process and the precedent being set. Misters Fein and Nichols got me to go beyond my anger and despair with Bush and Cheney and see that it is all about challenging the executive power grab.

When will the rest of America wake up and realize that democracy and egalitarianism in this country are simply lies-more propaganda to ensure the privileged elite not only remain in power, but increase their power. The Democrats do not represent the progressives. They, like the Republican party, represent their own agenda. They don't care about WE THE PEOPLE or the Constitution. The Dems know there is a very good possibility of taking the White House in 2008 and they want to make sure they can obtain and abuse the same arrogant POWER and perpetuate the same lies that the Bush Administration has perpetrated thanks to their obsequient permission. Like the Cheney/Bush syndicate, these people make my skin crawl.

Mommy 64 asks:

Poet

Yes, what do you suggest?

****************

First thing:

If Cindy is really serious about trying to unseat a politician who got over 80% of the vote in her last election Cindy needs to stop the theatrics and get her butt back to SF and start spending 12-16 hour days every day from now to November 2008 building an army of canvasers to cover Pelosi's district and get out the word on Pelosi and the vote for Cindy.

Medea Benjamin has over 20 years of political organizing experience with the Green party which in the SF Bay area has actually gotten local officials elected.

Next:

Mass protests and sit-ins only work when you have masses of people too big to push around--thousands and tens of thousands are the kind of numbers about which I am talking.

The best candidates are the very young (elementary to middle school aged kids) and the elderly (social security and pension recipients with some secure income and lots of time on their hands). (Recruitment should focus on these populations and not college kids many of whom are on the occupational make and too distracted by both hormones and materialism to really care).

Finally:

Understand that it took the fascist neocons about 20 years (from Goldwater to Reagan) to capture the White House and they have had control for a little longer than that. This effort should be for the next generation and all who are in it should be in it for the long haul (as "long" as they have left to "haul" anyway).

When all or most of the efforts to unseat non-progressive cnadidates fail in 08, the very next day after election day should be the start of the next campaign to recruit more volunteers, reframe the issues, document and inform constituents of the misdeeds of their representatives, and fund raise.

That's the way the opposition views it and for progressives to do any less is plain foolishness. We have had fun with stunts and consciousness raising exercises--now it is time to get seriously to work. By the way there are more of us than there are of them so if we never forget that fact, it just becomes a question of how we make connection with our natural allies!

If Sheehan runs it will be a laughable joke.

Sheehan and Code Pink did more to help the Democrats gain control of Congress than Raum Emanuel and DLC.

It is typical and cynical that Conyers, Pelosi and the DLC should shun Sheehan and Code Pink.

"True success in this world is not determined by how much money you make, or by how many possessions you have, but by the positive impact you have on other people, as you work toward your goals and dreams in life".

Congress knows they have given away so much power to the Executive that they realize [OR SHOULD] they HAVE NO EFFECT against the current occupant's signing statements. Whatever GWB INC. wants, he creates it through his own silent [under reported] Executive Orders or even less reported signing statements. Congress essentially has NO POWER!
THE ONLY thing our 'representatives' can effectively do is subpoena, hold in contempt, impeach, convict and hope the current occupant does not create or 'allow' another 9/11 to change the apathy in the citizens of this 'great nation' into fear once AGAIN.
WE MUST keep the pressure on for them to ALL they CAN and ALL they SHOULD and ALL THEY MUST DO to relieve this nation of the criminals in the Executive offices.

In response to Wemistikashw and PJD:

Last winter, following the election I packed my two girls up and headed for Washington to join the protest calling for an end to the war. It was publicized well in some circles, but we still had to go looking for for it. Often these events have come and gone before the public is aware and can mobilize in order to participate. We work, we have jobs like most everyone else, but we would have made the effort this time too, had I known about the Conyer's sit-in in time. My family and I and all the friends I could have mustered would have been there.

Surely there must be a way for the many different groups in favor of this impeachment effort to unite at one, large, overpowering Washington event, well publicized and allowing time for everyday citizens and families to get there. They would come. And, I believe, they would come en masse.

I think it must be said too that at the protest we did attend - one intended to show support for bringing troops home - there were signs and groups for a myriad of other concerns and interests in additon to the ending of the war which only weakened the message presumably bringing us all together. Cindy Sheehan has been demoralized, as she stated several weeks ago, because of these fractured efforts from the left w/ so many just but pet agendas.

Many of us, as evidenced by all of these submissions, see how imparative impeachment is to the future of our republic and I pray, pray, pray we will find someway to unite around this one, all-important issue: to demand the removal of this present administration. Only then, it appears can the way be cleared for an end to this illegal war of aggression while preventing another. The constitution and it's division of power is our foundation, and its integrity is at risk, it's a foundation holding up the rest of our house. If it continues to crumble the rest of our pet issues we wish to build upon it aren't going to matter much. (This, for the record, from a pro-life and, until the last election, registered republican).

.If your interrested in impeachment , it starts at the local level,organize,show up at your local townhalls,council chambers and put heat on the locals,thats where it starts not in washington, they are oblivious to to the sounds of the people in that town.Their ideal of working is to get up and deliver one min. speechesdeclaring their out rage and then going about raising money for their next election. What we must do is make their local districts hot for them.

Interesting reading -- !!!!

I checked the Pelosi "off the table" declaration and it does go back to before the election to 5/12/06 ...
she made various comments, i.e.--

Pelosi said that "impeachment would not be a goal of the the investigations [administrative energy policy and other matters] but she added, "You never know where it leads to."

Conyers had made a case for impeachment hearings on the lies that led us into the war on Iraq and on wiretapping.

Conyers agreed with Pelosi's thinking that Republicans are in desperate shape. We don't want to give them anything to grab onto. Therefore, Pelosi had never considered impeachment a priority.

I changed the wording around on this so here's the link for anyone to decide for themselves what was said and by whom . . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/11/AR2006051101950.html

and additionally post-election . . .
that she "wouldn't lead a liberal inquistion against President Bush"
that "Democrats aren't about getting even"

John Dean reminds us that IMPEACHMENT turns "Executive Privilege" into ashes . . .

This is very interesting because we have been bogged down so long with the INVESTIGATIONS GOING NO WHERE BECAUSE OF BUSH/CHENEY CLAIMS OF 'EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE' . . .

QUOTE . . .
Paraphrasing John Dean.
Impeachment is valuable BECAUSE Bush CANNOT assert executive privilege over ANY ITEMS needed in the investigation AGAINST HIM.
All the records regarding the energy policy, the Plame leak, etc...everything loses it's cover and becomes property of the investigating body (The House). This also means that all the people that REFUSE to acknowledge the subpoenas...Rove, Rice, Miers, etc. HAVE to testify in an impeachment hearing and there is NO getting around that.
The media can ignore Congressional hearings. The media can ignore parliamentary procedure BUT the media CANNOT ignore an impeachment hearing.
SO, if you think pulling the media cover and executive privilege cover off of this administration wouldn't net the support in the Senate (because it sure as hell would get the attention of the people who aren't being told exactly what is going on)...then I am sorry that you simply do not understand the reason we NEED impeachment proceedings.

I'm breaking these down for easier reading --

grappa,

I could not agree with you more, and in fact mentioned that a month ago. Starting at the local level is an ideal place to begin the protest. Put so much heat on local and state officials, that politicians on Capitol Hill will clearly get the message that they are next.

How many of you, seriously, would join with others and refuse to pay your income tax? To find out where our income tax money really goes, go to: http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

What we do not want, we will not buy. Why is it that we apply this dictum to consumer goods, but not to our government's pernicious projects?

Coupled with unremitting, unified, single-issue protest, a protracted tax revolt will help to de-fund the war, give us all a real sense of community for a change, and send a strong message to those who would serve us in government.

To those who do not support A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition's call for a UNITED, single-issue protest, please remember that a coalition is just that: a union of separate bodies. When this struggle is over, we can all go back to our individual causes. If we don't unite, there may not be any chance of going back...to much of anything.

I haven't actually read every post completely . . .
but just want to say that everything I know about politics I learned first from Ralph Nader --
Nonetheless, I think even he is shocked at the speed with which fascism has crossed our threshold in America.

When I first awakened in 1988, I hit the library to check my own life philosophies first and to find some truthful history. Most of that rested in the FDR era where we have some pretty frank discussions about labor and corporations. They did try, of course, to kill FDR -- the corporates that is: Dupont, and a bunch of them. It was investigated by the USHR.

I tried immediately to work with the Democrats -- they will let you work your head off -- but it takes money to move within the party; you quickly see this and it's not pretty. Many, many honest people are drawn to the party, working for it during campaigns, etc. After elections; usually nothing happens. I worked for Jerry Brown/was a delegate for him from my area -- and for a short time his campaign had a liberal impact on the party and the nation. For a short time.

I worked with the Greens where there is a wide open field for citizens to pursue office. Excellent platform. And I did run for office for them. Very interesting. I got a lot of votes/didn't win. Many, many honest and hard working citizens have come to the Green Party.

It got really exciting when Ralph Nader ran for president with the Greens -- fantastic platform. I didn't end up voting for him because my children were so concerned that Bush would win. The "Swiftboating" of Nader after that by Democrats evidently frightened the international Green Party so much that they didn't support his coming on board again for the 2004 election. That really shocked me.
And, behind that decision it became obvious that the Green Party had been co-opted by Democrats who were making Green Party decisions and barring Nader. Both parties -- Dems and Repubs -- have erected so many barriers to third parties that it's a wonder that any of them last even a few years. We have to have IRV -- Instant Runoff Voting as other nations have.

Of course, the 2000 election was stolen as the 2004 election and 2002 elections seem to have been stolen.
Nonetheless, it is difficult for the public to give up the feeling that Nader had something to do with the loss.
My feeling is that Nader voters were intelligent and where they felt that it would harm a Clinton win, they didn't vote for him. But, Nader brought out a huge number of liberal voters. On the other hand, I certainly understand that the Perot campaign had something to do with the Bush I loss and the Clinton win.

It was Susan B. Anthony's hope that Labor and Women would come together to form a party. How far we seem from that idea!

Certainly one of the biggest and most obvious booby traps in the Democratic Party is the DLC -- the conservative/right-wing of the Democratic Party.
Many Democrats don't even know it exists within the party.
It's the Republican wing, so to speak.

Personally, I'd like to see a united fight for the Democratic Party -- it would just be easier.
What would it take to get Kucinich elected?
Obviously, the establishment wants Clinton --
I'd take Bill again, but I'm concerned about Hillary's positions and her anxiousness to compromise with Republicans and their agendas.

The Gonzales hearing ended today with SPECTER/Magic Bullet suggesting the need for an Independent Prosecutor!!!
I hadn't heard any Democrat mention that very logical possibility. I'm sticking with impeachment, please . . .

Meanwhile, we've all woken up late and we have Global Warming which is really climate crisis -- and the threat to humanity and the planet is growing every day.
We don't have a lot of time to fool around.

Last night in the Democratic/You Tube debates the questions were a farce and unlikely representative of the questions that were really supported by those using the website.

No one asked about nationalizing our own natural resources; especially oil which is in the hands of a few private families. We have know for decades that it is the burning of fossil fuels that causes GW.

There is talk about getting mpg up to 50 in the next decades but not one reminds us that in the 1960's we had cars that did almost that.

Did no one see "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
We could have all electric cars on the highways in 5 years by replacing 20% of them every year -- subsidizing both ends -- manufacture and purchase.

Bush, Cheney, Gonzales don't see to have anything to fear though they have been literally and figuratively torturing humanity for 6 years now.

Insanity seemed to prevail as first Cheney and then Bush proclaimed that they aren't part of the Executive Branch!!!

Maybe if we all keep at it, Pelosi will change her mind . . but the hearings are going nowhere and documents have obviously been tossed, shredded and perhaps lost forever.

Echoes of "Operation Northwoods" and Nixon's "Huston Plan" are still out there --

"DUMP THE DEMOCRATS!
UNITE INTO A NEW THIRD PARTY NOW!"

I believe the system is rigged to destroy third parties. The structure of the system makes it impossible to unite behind a new party. Read:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/science_egalitarians.html

That's why I think the best way to promote change is vote in the primaries as a Democrat to get rid of people like Lieberman, Pelosi, Clinton etc... THEN if we fail to get someone similar to Kucinich to replace them, vote Nader or Green.

Democrat is just a label. Registering Democrat or Republican isn't a sell-out. What scares them the most is taking over their idea of what a Democrat or Republican is, replacing Clinton with Kucinich or Guiliani with Ron Paul.

SO FEW PEOPLE VOTE IN PRIMARIES. We could throw these people out if we got organized. Seriously. Not voting in the primaries is worse than not voting in the general election because that's the place where the most change can occur. Once the election comes around it's already narrowed down to corporate candidate #1 VS. corporate candidate #2. Let's change that in 2008!

VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES!