It will probably be a black operation by the government, if they can't provoke anyone else to do it for them.

Can you say, "Gulf of Tonkin?"

I knew you could.

Read Executive Order 10999 (allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.)
E.O. 10998 (allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.)
E.O. 11000 (allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.)
In fact, if you look over this site, which is now a bit dated, you will find below the main article, a list of EO's covering the martial law powers.
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

Oh, I forgot EO 11921provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis.")

EO 11921 = shutting down the internet, then we're
left with Limpbush radio

Many other nations have had to deal with a military whose only function is to repress the people. It would seem that the lice at the head of our government now want to apply this kind of control to US citizens.
No one could do a better job of handling an actual disaster than Americans who were left to their own resources: no one could do a worse job than the boobs who made such a mess of the Katrina scene.
The CB's put Gulfport back into operation in short order with the help of decent citizens ---- Government ineptitude and avarice made a double layered disaster of N.O.

NSPD 51 - it calls directly for martial law for "continuity of government" in the event of tragedies such as alien invasion, nuclear attack, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes and more... National Security Presidential Directive 51... it is over 50 years old...

The man who may have been a proponent of such a thing has died, but the idea has a life. Men and women die, ideas do not. This is why the Republicans ahve such a good hold on power now. Despite the 2006 elections, Republicans have a message, right or wrong and a belief in their ideas. Democrats have become the Anti-Republican party and since the Republicans claimed to be pro-America that left the Dumbacrats with no real meesage to speak of except they are worse than we were... It is time the Sheeple wake up in America before it is too late.

Read "IRON HEEL" by Jack London if you think it's not already too late. The Congress can't do it so the only way to get Bush out of the White House is with a military coup.
Hoa binh

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." FDR

Organize, organize, organize that's how we got the 40 hour work week, that's how women got the right to vote, and that's how we got rid of Jim Crow laws.

Remember: "The people united shall never be defeated."

WE can overcome our learned helplessness.

Find five people in your neighborhood with which to practice free speech.

Thank you, Libertas Fugit, factual data is always a gift.

Peace.

Martial Law is a scary prospect. But, true to this administration's limited abilities, all security forces will be privatized to cronies. They will benefit from the free flowing $$$'s made available to supress the American public. Martial Law suspends most person liberties (it is supposed to keep us safer) by protecting us. HMMMMM. The only bright spot is that if Martial Law is implements under FEMA, we all know how competent FEMA has been under the umbrella of Homeland Security. Better come up with some sort of Protection Company. Doesn't matter if you have any experience or if you even deliver what you promise. The point to make as much money as possible in the shortest period of time. It is quite clear that you will not be held accountable.

2008:

Amercia, met your new masters: BLACKWATER

Now shut the hell up, turn over your assests, pick up the shovel, and start digging your own graves.

Dr. Zimmerman Robert: Thank you for your comment. We are sliding downhill at a rapid pace because of individual apathy, lethargy, familial obligations, overworking, and in a way, selfishness, by wanting someone else to do the necessary work in improving our lives and society in general.

We The People need to take to the streets and withhold our labor. Unless we come together and force these traitors and tyrants out, the situation will worsen.

Thanks again, Doc.

NPSD 51, "Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq" is important news...
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072207A.shtml

Also this week Paul Craig Roberts, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under the Reagan Administration, wrote in his latest column: "Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran. Bush has put in place all the necessary measures for dictatorship in the form of 'executive orders' that are triggered whenever Bush declares a national emergency. Recent statements by Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff, former Republican senator Rick Santorum and others suggest that Americans might expect a series of staged, or false flag, 'terrorist' events in the near future."

There are a ton of signs that I won't get into... but I believe this is the month before the storm. If you're thinking of moving to Canada or Europe now is a good time. If only people listened to Radiohead, everyone would have been warned: http://foamweapons.googlepages.com/4minutewarning

FOAM WEAPONS: There was a death in my family last week and it hit me hard: the realization that death, like love, comes so unexpectedly. I use this analogy in reference to the concept of timing, and when it's possibly THE last moment to get out of "Dodge." We in this forum are probably as well informed as any citizens in the U.S. and day by day we learn of new orders by an individual both incompetent and never legally placed into office who has usurped every sovereign law and apparently manages to hold those agents of check-balance at bay, that is, when his "legal team" of sycophantic charlatans isn't deconstructing law to mean something (Orwell) entirely else.
NAMVET: Did you ever read "THE STAR ROVER" by Jack London? It's a great book, more mystical than his usual stuff.
NEO CONNED: The fear factor is what this administration is best at creating. I, too, felt from the get go that 911 was an inside job. I am not technical like some posters, that is, the way the buildings melted was not the "sales" point for me. Now in hindsight when "every move they've made" demonstrates this administrations callous disregard for American and Iraqi lives, their ungodly quest for others' treasures, their shitting on domestic and international law (maybe that's why the bastard has the proctology thing done this week), and absolute LAWLESSNESS. Seeing their record, it should not require a major leap of imagination to recognize what they are capable of, and how they were willing to set the trigger to gain all this power.
To those who ask us to stand up to them, it reminds me of Rachel Corrie standing up to the Israeli bull dozer... OTHER forces must come to the aid of the just. This machine given its policing forces, modern weapons and surveillance assistance is far worse than the nazis.

Articles in this train are beginning to sound like the 1970's TV series narrated by Leonard Nimoy, "In Search Of". Pseudoscience, it always sort of left the viewer with a psychological haze, a mental blank area, in which there were more questions than answers.

Honestly, I've roadtripped this country a dozen times and can vouch that there are hundreds and hundreds of miles of small towns, decaying towns, wilderness, etc. in which there's no federal influence whatsoever. The only "reach" they have in those places is ability to collect taxes. And then you take some poor town in Kansas that gets nailed by a tornado earlier this summer and the national guard can barely respond to it.

Question #1: So how's Bush going to fund a new martial law? He's bankrupting the country on his middleastern adventures, and stretching the military awfully thin.

Question #2: So what's the rational response, if these articles are true? So far as I can tell, we should either all be leaving the country now -- or else buying a lot of guns & ammo.

Let's get to the bottom of these articles. Either they're simply morale busters for the progressives, to shut them up, or else there is something to them -- and a response.

But my own analysis, as I've said several times, is that the idea of martial law or camps is so repulsive -- even to fairly conservative middle america, perhaps even the Christian fundies -- that it would split the country in half. Best guess is that 2/3rds+ of the military and most local law enforcement would probably side with the American populace. If Bush still pressed, it would come down to a war of a minority of the military and Blackwater versus everyone else -- including most of the civilized world.

I don't buy these articles for a moment. Ollie North drew up similar plans in the early 1980's. And here we are 25 years later. Of course, we do have a dictatorship of sorts -- in everything but name & camps, but that's the beside the point. Or so I hope.

PAUL: It's true there are MANY rural regions, fine, the feds could care less about those, but there ARE cities. And it seems your last sentence as conclusion contradicts the points your postitive analysis otherwise makes. Listen, I hope you're right, but the fact that this administration IS lawless and acts like dictators, and has slimed our nation's reputation and karma... hey, sooner or later the karma blows back.

PAUL: IF events WERE not happening as they indeed are, and you slept for 20 years and woke up (Rip Van Winkle style) and someone said to you, "We've had 2 false elections. The President has used false/fixed intelligence to go to war "against terrorism." Our nation is so badly in debt it's sold major assets as collateral for loans (with previous "enemy" states). There's a private mercenary army staffed with over 100,000 soldiers. A US city collapsed under stagnant water during a storm and was never rebuilt. Billionaires are being made while poverty is growing, and the checks and balances between the branches of government have not only broken down; this prez who's elections occured under clouds of illegitimacy has rewritten law or included a device known as "signing statements" to over ride the executive branch." I could go on and on, but the point is... doesn't it sound like sci-fi, our own episode of the x-files? So please don't berate the emotions many of us are projecting into this forum. We're in disbelief that this cabal has taken over our government and the assumed checks to its abuses of power are NOT operating. Meanwhile laws that eviscerate sacred legal traditions like Habeas Corpus are underway, and let's not forget the prior "eminent domain" ruling, added to today's flutter around the unclear wording of this latest "right to confiscate." Oh, and I forgot torture and secret prisons! LOGIC is not the operating principle of our times, or this adminstration, sir!

This is like the idea that Bush will stay in office after 2008. Too many big donors and money interests--they dont want to waste billions on candidates for nothing--and you can bet there are alot of businesses--big businesses--that would see martial law as a headache. You cant shop well under a curfew.

A catastrophic attack could tilt things, but it could also make people call for Bush's head. That's also karma.

Siouxrose, how about you running for prez? I believe uou have the intellect that we so badly need in this country and a good dash of character to go with it.

It's already happened in a tentative, exploratory way. Let's not forget that Blackwater Security was called into New Orleans, where it patrolled the streets with automatic weapons, given the power to shoot and detain and hold American citizens, without any recourse to rights, training, or legal consequences, nor indeed to the laws of the city, state or nation. Not a peep.

—Sheep, just sheep.

alas

egon

SiouxRose,

I don't doubt that we've have the ingredients of a fascist state around us today, but my point was to indicate that this is largely a paper tiger. Our country is very large, there are many untouched and, feasibly, untouchable rural/wild places.

The ratings of Bush & Co. are abysmal. The only situation which would concern me is if their ratings were extraordinarily high, if our fellow Americans massively supported this administration. But there will be NO mass Hitlerian public rallies, no huge public appearances -- because there is no such wide support. If it turned out that all my neighbors, coworkers, community leaders, etc. were fully on board, I'd probably pack up tomorrow for parts unknown. But that ain't the case. Very, very few people I know -- even some former diehard Rethugs -- are on board with this administration. They don't have the heart & soul.

If I were one of their mobsters, or one of their pundits, I'd probably send out all sorts of hocus-pocus to make people afraid of their own shadows. Make them censor themselves. The paper their tiger is cut from is psychological in nature at this point. Without a certain monopoly on fears and motivations, they've got squat. Money itself works that way. It's the monopoly on the ability to make people do things, to motivate them.

At any rate, my concern wasn't with this topic so much as with Rothschild. This vein of reporting leaves more questions than it answers, leaves the reader with nothing but a crippling vacuum of paranoia in his head. Fails to mention that Ollie North had the same plan a generation ago, and probably many administrations have as well. Let's be a little more honest to our readers. People don't need fear -- they need answers or suggestions for action. Paranoia didn't help anyone -- anyone except this administration.

The concern I see, is that by the cowering of the Dems, or so it seems, (maybe this coming week, we'll see something different) no legal action will bring down these craven criminals in the WH and locale.

So, as mentioned, a military coup is really the next step, but the military are trained not to think for themselves, giving up their autonomy for the military. Also, most of them, go into the military, because they aren't college bound. So, for what ever reason, learning has been a problem for them. Not alot of politically astute among them. I applaude their willingness to do good, even though they were disillusioned. Up until recently, over half of them still believed that Hussein had something to do with 911.

The most recent polls indicate that the majority of military and military families oppose Bush though. That is encouraging.

But, here we are on the internet, talking about a military coup. So, now are we going to be hauled off to Gitmo with a bright orange jumpsuit, with a bright red swollen face, having been beaten up by the Blackwater Busheviks?

Seriously, we are looking at that possibility. Americans, plenty of them, who happened to be Muslim have been. We know they oversee us, especially sites like this, an anti-war, Liberal site.

While I wish that the military would take him down, I cannot suggest it, because I would be jeapordizing myself. But, the real threat to us, are the stupid military folks, that never have had an independent thought in their life, that will support Bush, and I'm thinking the extreme Right, Dominionist Blackwater people fit into that category.

I wonder if it would end up being a war between the traditional military who mostly hate Bush against the Dominionist (want our whole coutry's laws to be the Bible). The Blackwater people are much better cared for. They have better equipment, pay, armor, etc. Gee, who would have the advantage? Obviously Blackwater, but then again, the traditional military have the greater numbers.

I'm thinking outloud here. I don't know if I'm offering anything valuable, because I'm sure, like me, you're thinking: WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS MONSTER CABAL IN OUR WHITEHOUSE??????????????

Paul Bramscher -- That there are great vistas and open space in the US is no reason to discount the possibility of a rising fascist government. As far as I know Hitler had no trouble with chipmunks. Having also witnessed the vast expanse of land in this continent, I understand your feeling, but it's just a feeling, and is quite irrelevant.
Is fascist overtake just a Spock narrated postulate or could there be...something behind it...like crop circles or an alien landing pad????? :-)
Let's take Siourose's point seriously though: would you have thunk it in 1987? And are we all just the proverbial frog in the gradually heating water?

Excellent, excellent exchanges, great posts on this article -- better than the article!

PS
One last thing. Re: General Wayne A. Downing's charge that martial law might be imposed after a major terrorist attack. I have to admit my first reaction to this was "well, of course." Not that I agree, but given the screwed up state of our nation the concept doesn't surprise me or strick me as provocative in the least. Seriously, is this news to anyone?

I was talking to the female postal worker in my small hometown. She told me about the time during the 60's (I believe) when they were living in the south and the area got hit by a severe tornado and martial law was declared. When I asked her what it was like to live that way, she felt safe, they kept things running, etc. But she also said that she was glad when the martial law was lifted.

I think that when martial law does come - in the aftermath of some contrived "terrorist" attack - one group (and I believe that this will be a very large group) are going to feel just like she did. They'll go along with the martial law, comforted by the fact that people with more power than themselves are taking charge. Generally, their lives won't change too much - most of them will still have power and water and they'll still be able to go to work, and the schools will remain open. It might feel a little weird, but they'll get used to it. And most importantly, it won't even occur to most people that martial law WON'T be lifted. They'll keep giving martial law a chance, they'll "stay the course" because they will want to believe that THIS time, the president has their best interests at heart. And of course martial law will be lifted. It's the United States, after all.

Another group (I'm thinking mostly here of the redneck south and the conservative rural areas) will welcome and joyfully embrace martial law because their small militaristic minds will be thinking that things in this country are FINALLY as they should be.

It doesn't matter that the military won't have a presence in every part of the country. Good god, not every part of the country has had a pre-planned 'terrorist' attack and look how they have rolled over to everything Bush Co. have done. They don't need a presence because they've got electronic means to monitor everyone. In addition, let's take a lesson from the McCarthy era. The feds didn't have a presence everywhere because they didn't need it. U.S. citizens, in their goal of self preservation, did the government's job for it. Same thing in current day Myanmar/Burma, China, among others. While the government will dictate a need to "preserve the Homeland" the citizenry will be focused on preserving themselves. Human beings are only animals and animals are the same everywhere. Whatever they need to do for self-preservation is what they will do.

While martial law might not be liked, it will be accommodated because that's just what the people of this country have been trained for - don't think, just accommodate.

I took a motorcycle riders education course this weekend. It was held at the Air National Guard base in Burlington, Vermont. When I arrived on friday, soldiers were at the gate checking ID's. Air Force 2 landed later that evening with Dick Cheney on board. There was no mention of his visit in the local press. When I arrived for class on Sat. morning, soldiers at the gate had been replaced by "security personnel" from Blackwater. No rank or insignia on their clothing. They were dressed all in black, right down to their webbed belts. They handled security until Air Force 2 left on Sunday evening. Still no mention in the press that Cheney was around.
During the entire weekend we were admonished not to stray from the building and track that we were learning on. We were told that we could be shot if we left the area. We were not allowed to leave the base for lunch.
Martial law is so much closer than people think. This was the scariest thing I have experienced in a very long time.

All you liberal gun control freaks had better pay attention. Get some guns, legal of course. Learn how to use them. Don't let the goverment confiscate them. Keep your guns clean and your amo dry. You may be called upon to fight for freedom against the fascists. Of course you can always tuck your head up your ass and pretend it's not happening.

Paul Bramscher: I appreciate your informed, calm response. I hope you prove right! As for the Ollie North analogy, let's face it, he was a foot soldier and had little power then as now. The current cabal is unique in its cancerous tendrils reaching into EVERY branch of our government, judge and attorney offices across the land, and supposed regulatory agencies. As per the title of an interesting book I came across as a student in London we are wise to ask, "Who Guards the Guards?"
KERNEL: Years ago when I began my spiritual search I was told to NOT pursue politics, that my calling was different. Like Michael Moore I believe film media is the most powerful device for imparting wisdom and changing human minds. For the past seven yeas I have been writing movie scripts (a current one is in Hollywood and my fingers are crossed) that would raise consciousness. I also perceive it as something of a tithe that costs of on-line (on demand/Internet) publishing have made it possible for me to self-publish books that agents and generic MSM publishers will not touch. I have FOUR in the pipeline right now and when they are in ink, I will be happy to announce them to any on this site that find topics resonant with the circle (i.e. outside the box!) worth their time or interest. Thank you for the affirmative vote, it is much appreciated in a time of real and virtual witchhunts!

Libertas fugit's explanation of Executive Orders (EOs) is incorrect, as can easily be established by checking some public sites (thecre.com, disastercenter.com,
archives.gov, fas.org, presidency.ucsb.edu and others):
- EO 10999, 10998, and 11000 were done by John Kennedy as part of a general plan to deal with the aftermath of nuclear war. They were all revoked by EO 11490 in 1969, when Richard Nixon updated them as part of the national preparedness plan mandated by Congress. All of these presume that the US has sustained a massive nuclear attack and is basically destroyed.
- EO 11921 was instituted by Gerald Ford in 1976, amending EO 11490 in minor ways. For instance, it substitutes the term 'United States Postal Service' for "The Post Office Department". The order does not make any mention of Congress at all.
The real issue in all of this is not the fantasy of an impending coup, but rather the willingness of the US government to pursue policies which presume a chance of complete destruction and massive casualties.

I mentioned to a few people that I suspected that the Bush Administration, having put all the other mechanisms for a military dictatorship into place, will stage a terrorist attack as a pretext for cancelling the 2008 elections and declaring martial law. The people I mentioned this to laughed in my face. "You are so paranoid! That would never happen in THIS country."

Let's just wait, watch what happens, and see who laughs last (Answer: Nobody laughs last).

Although I do not recollect the source, I recall reading within the past 1-2 years that only "weak" governments feel compelled to implement martial law. Has anyone encountered a similar hypothesis in print or online?

The more any external force (whether family, employer, government, and/or religion), demands control over people's lives, the more resistance develops, not unlike Newton's third law of motion. For decades, American government/corporate confluence kept the public at the end of a slightly-slack bungee cord: as long as most of us could pay our bills and know the Bill of Rights was honored, we remained reasonably content. But the bungee cord slowly tightened. First our jobs began to disappear, then our civil liberties. How much more will citizens take until we snap back?

During the past several years, I have tried to mentally position myself midway between paranoia and Pollyanna, an often-difficult balancing act: many of the Bush regime's tactics for warping the public psyche into flaccid fear seem obvious (perhaps even to an agent who received a C- in Psych Ops 101), yet I don't underestimate their capacity for evil. However, I believe the government has not (yet) reinstated the draft because it would result in a student outcry at least as loud as that heard during the Vietnam era; similarly, if the Bush regime implements overt martial law, they know they will face a second American Revolution which may not end well for them.

WAYS TO HELP QUIETLY DEFEAT THE BUSH REGIME
1.) Be well-informed.
2.) Avoid mainstream "news."
3.) Talk to your neighbors.
4.) Talk to people you have learned to fear, including those with religious and/or political beliefs different from your own.
5.) If you are healthy enough to do so, donate blood.
6.) Whether it be money, time, knowledge, or wisdom, share some of your wealth.
PLEASE ADD YOUR SUGGESTIONS TO THIS LIST!

GERSHOMS HORSE: I respect your refined reasoning powers and identify with much that you state. As for a # 7 for your list: what if a fund was created by disenchanted Americans to start a colony in some new zone taking our Constitution along with us? There have been attempts at communal living done before. I've been talking to my friends about pooling resources to buy some land ELSEWHERE in case we elect to wait out the insurgence on our own soil. (I still think this is more than plausible. I have a man friend who's brushed up on his survival skills and believes he will live on an offshore island fishing and finding fresh water sources, etc. He says he has visions of angry, hungry multitudes and does NOT want to be on the US mainland.)

Every time I hear about people like this dying I feel a little better. These government/military/industrial figures have been moving in the shadows of government's halls for decades urging us toward the fascist dictatorship that is now looming on the immediate horizon. Trouble is, when one finally does pass away, there are two or three others waiting in the wings to take their place.

Through neglect, We, the People have allowed this to take place. It's up to us to make a rapid decision on what it's worth to prevent the complete collapse of our so-called democratic government.