Now, if these agents with a conscience would just point out the ones amongst them who are trying to overthrow Chavez and other democratically elected leaders AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, tell us who killed President Kennedy, then I might have respect for this agency. As it is, it seems to be nothing but a bunch of thugs with a lot of money that Congress doesn't keep track of. Oh yea, and out the 9-11 murderers while they are at it. Come clean guys! Come clean! Then, I'd say, what a damned great agency!!!!

Good for Mr Dick Marty that he's not in the United States, otherwise they would ask him to reveal the names of all those CIA men, or be sent to Gitmo to undergo a little harsh interrogation technique courtesy of King George.

However, I still can't figure out why CIA was pissed off. I thought CIA normally does all kinds of shit, including murder. So, what gives?

Secret detentions, torture, extraordinary renditions, covertly overthrowing uncooperative governments (or outright invasions) is nothing new. The Bush administration is so brazenly arrogant and incompetent that they inadvertently allow the festering toxins of US imperialism to finally come to the surface like an infectious boil.

Here is the deal: you set up prison camps and let us use them, and in return, we will station a missile defense shield to protect your country. Again, it is the loyalty issue. If you are a friend of the U.S. and comply with our (illegal) program, then we will reward you. Textbook realism in foreign relations policy.

Salia--Good question. I think the answer lies with disagreement over tactics to achieve the overarching policy goal of hydrocarbon control centering on the too overtly aggressive war based upon falsehoods likely to rally the world against the USA. For example, Clinton/Gore were able to get away with almost the same deeds as Bush/Cheney but without the uporoar as they worked "softly" and "patiently." Indeed, one might view the impeachment of Clinton as "pre-emptive," given the neocon vision of strategy change as revealed by the PNAC documents written contemporaneously. Also, we now know that most all 2000 election Bush/Cheney rhetoric was Orwellian in that the opposite tactic/outcome was desired, as with "compassionate conservatism," which has caused the public to be its most awake and vocal in years--an atmosphere the CIA detests.

Ultimately, the secret police of any country have only one job--to maintain the current status quo and increase the power of the state and the "nomenklatura' parasitic class that benefits from current arrangements.

Maybe it's like any other mob organization, etc. with internal power struggles. Maybe it's also damage control, or controlled damage? The Abu Ghraib scandal broke first -- on its own accord, thanks to the era of the cheap digital camera and laptop. So while they may shut down Gitmo and replaced Rumsfeld with what's-his-name, is there any real change in underlying policy?

The CIA is probably mainly ticked off that they can't do business-as-usual without someone in the executive who's both unscrupulous as well as competent. That combination is in shorter supply these days. Too many mobsters inherited their positions today, didn't get there by being ruthlessly competent first?

Ya mean there are good guys in the CIA? Hmmm. Seems like things must be getting just really out of hand, if guys in the CIA are complaining. Scary!
Karlof1: what you mentioned ..., "Bush/Cheney rhetoric was Orwellian"... everything for which they attach a label is always a misnomer (except for their war labels: shock and awe, pretty accurate, "dead on"), and it's just astonishing, how well they've dumbed down the population by high school graduation- you know, to quit thinking critically for oneself, so that when they say some sh!t like, "Clear Skies" for a program that in fact pollutes it more, that's enough for a lot of people (baaahbaaahbaaah), or the way our own elected leaders allowed Bush to carry on with the "Patriot Act" which led to the destruction of our Constitutional freedoms, and the masses just went along with it (baaaaah), the activists (the TRUE Americans)are the ones who shouted out loud their dissent- in the face of extreme animosity, at times. Such a surreal experience.

Would these secret prisons possibly hold all THOSE WHO KNEW TOO MUCH about the real story behind 911? I guess it would make it easy to disappear the "Lee Harvey Oswald" types recruited for the job. Any DISAPPEARED AMERICAN DISSENTERS or whistle-blowers in these secret gulags?

In COMPLETE disregard of the Geneva Conventions....
Another reason to Impeach both George Bush and Richard Cheney!
They have systematically unraveled our Constitution.

Call House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today:
202-225-4965

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE_HW76kuAA

B.ring
U.S.
S.oldiers
H.ome!

Let's see--Bushco Defense Dept.

Iraq and Afghanistan invasion
Abu Ghraib, Baghram, Gitmo and third party contractor local purchase gulag members.

CIA--

Iranian coup in '53

Guatamalan coup in '54

Assassination of Chilean president Allende in '74

Assassination of Ecuodoran president Jaime Roldos in '79

Assassination of Panamanian president Omar Torrijos in '81.

Overthrow of Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua in '90
(Happily he has been reelected despite beligerant posturing by Bushco to prevent it.)

Training of death squads who ravaged El Salvador in the '80's.

Training and supplying of Osama Bin Laden against the Russian puppet government in Afghanistan in the 80's.

So which do you prefer Coke or Pepsi?

I guess imitation is the sincerest form of flattery--we'll know the CIA is really seriously pissed when they start taking covert action against the US military, the secret service praetorian guard, and Bushco functionairies.

Otherwise this is just so much posturing and inter-office political squabbling--including especially the VIP team of Ray McGovern.

The CIA people are still smarting from the take-over and interpretations of their information by Cheney's cherry picking squad. The White House tried to make like 9/11 was a disaster that the White House could not have foreseen with the bad information they were receiving from the CIA. Of course this was just K Rove spin and even Tenent was forced to cover for the White House. Tenent tried to set the record straight later but it was too little too late. This is pay back and also the CIA probably knows the information received from torture is shaky at best. Of course the White House doesnt care as long as the infomation is something they can use to do what they are going to do anyway.

Dear "Drex", don't you think they just do the torture thing- for the sheer joy of using torture? Because, I read they gave orders to shoot and kill the highest ranking enemy- on sight. THOSE guys are the ones to torture, if information is the objective- NOT the low level guys who don't know squat- and most of the tortured so far are said to be mostly innocent. So again, if they wanted to torture for useful information, things would have gone down in the opposite direction: kill the nobodies; torture the somebodies who might actually know something useful; therefore, obvious conclusion: Bush, Cheney, etc- they just plain LOVE being mean, for the sake of being mean, as evidenced by a war based upon lies, and torture just for fun.

DO NOT BUY G.TENET book,is all full of excuses and at the end it says nothing incriminating , just another guy trying to ca$h on the milk wagon. The 9 11 criminal act has all the markings of a cover up, The CIA taking blame, Bush getting off the hook by blaming the CIA .They all were part of the cover up,and the bottom line is that BUSH has to be held accountable and not be the one pointing fingers at who failed.
Any future credible politician worth the vote of any American has to be running on a platform to impeach Bush and Cheney. Have you herd anyone of the actual candidate for president making impeachment a big part of their campaing/, or are they the usual politician trying to get us to accept that is too late to impeach anyone? .

Perhaps our Congressmen/women are being given the choice: Stay in line or disappear.

Among the many subjects concerned citizens ought to be concerned about is the lack of any real protection for whistle-blowers. Those many Government employees who know the awful or just plain corrupt practices taking place also have mortgages and need their jobs; they cannot easily go public with their information for the public good and why is that? Because our corrupt politicians don't WANT them blowing the whistle. The few who do are well off or already retired it seems. We all should write emails EVERY DAY to our Congressional delegation on every issue that concerns us and send copies of those emails to their local newspapers too. My own almost totally worthless CD, Pete Domenici, Jeff Bingaman and that political (I can't put it here) Congresswoman Wilson should feel the point of a cattle prod two or three times a day.

The more CIA/NSA agents that get tired of supporting the scam democracy & its barbaric corrupt military industrial complex the better. Many of them go in with great expectations, thinking like the soldiers that they're defending democracy and helping keep the USA "free", only to learn that wars are started primarily to benefit major corporations, not to "defend" us as the liars say. Those who aren't corrupt, cowardly or blind, will find ways for the worst tyrants to be thrown from power, and will support the global peace movement.

-----------------------------

"The time for war has past."
The World Teacher

One naivete that ought to be corrected to
strengthen this entire thread: Not everybody
in the CIA is an extreme conservative. When
Norman Mailer did the research for his book,
he was surprised at how many progressives he
found. Me, I lived on a mountain in Virginia
where a lot of CIA's had their dachas. That's
how I know.

"Now, if these agents with a conscience would just point out the ones amongst them who are trying to overthrow Chavez and other democratically elected leaders AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, tell us who killed President Kennedy, then I might have respect for this agency. As it is, it seems to be nothing but a bunch of thugs with a lot of money that Congress doesn't keep track of. Oh yea, and out the 9-11 murderers while they are at it. Come clean guys! Come clean! Then, I'd say, what a damned great agency!!!!"

There have been some like that in past.... John Stockwell comes to mind. I would expect they generally screen out liberals and leftists though.

Too bad Germeny did'nt have a HERO like Dick Marty in 1938, there wouldnt have been a Hitler. Today we have the born again' people hateing,drive-by gange Bush crime family,Hitler minded president killig his and foreign people.

I agree with sections in posts above.
I think that this 'renegade' factor (-in various government departments) is now especially effervescent and will likely be one of the principal factors to prematurely end Bush-baby's gutter empire.
He and his vile cohorts have been w-a-y-y-y-y too arrogant not to have trodden on a thousand toes behind the scenes.
~ A thousand festering sores have been the result.

I'm convinced there is a whole swath of people in many official positions who have been just ITCHING to get their revenge on the cretins at the top, they've just been quietly biding their time, -waiting to strike at an opportune moment.

Each new 'leak' resulting in egg-on-face for the White House vipers will beget still more spears chucked at them from within their own ranks as their many 'friendly enemies' become emboldened...

I think Bu$h Co's *End Game* is now occurring, and has an unstoppable momentum. Expect a plague of rats, as their previously loyal minions leap from the sinking ship!

And as I wrote elsewhere on C-D, some of BushCo's enemies are very dangerous beings indeed.
Some will not be content with just a few leaked secrets and the resultant ignominy.
No. For them, (these *seriously* peed-off malcontents), an assassination or two would be far more a fitting end...

I told my neighbor about this and she called the White House and gave them my real name and address.

How about an ACLU/Amnesty International sponsored ad in the mainstream media (especially in Europe) showing a picture of detainees in jail (right next to pictures of tourist landmarks in Poland and Romania) with the headline "My vacation in Romania and Poland was pure hell." Tell the story that these countries supported the secret detention camps, part of the web of detention and torture run by the CIA. At the bottom, end with the final headline -- "No tourism dollars for countries that abet torture."

That might get their attention -- and put other countries on notice that there is a price they will pay if they collude in these actions.

i say reinstate the draft.
make the people want to scream from the rooftops.
some unknown hero somewhere is going to make a politial statement.

and it's gonna be great for the entire world.

now your making ME sound like wunnayer terrristss

"CIA–

Iranian coup in '53

Guatamalan coup in '54

Assassination of Chilean president Allende in '74

Assassination of Ecuodoran president Jaime Roldos in '79

Assassination of Panamanian president Omar Torrijos in '81.

Overthrow of Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua in '90
(Happily he has been reelected despite beligerant posturing by Bushco to prevent it.)

Training of death squads who ravaged El Salvador in the '80's.

Training and supplying of Osama Bin Laden against the Russian puppet government in Afghanistan in the 80's."
Jaime Roldos was in 81 and Allende was in 73.
Also Lumumba, Cheddi Jagan, Juan Bosch, Juan Torres, Jacob Arbenz, etc, etc....

The only US presidential candidate who has been most principled about accountability of our CIA, etc. and who authored and pushed to impeach Dick Cheney then George Bush, to immediately get out of Iraq and not go to war against Iran, and the only one to have a coherent, workable, fair plan for stabilizing Iraq and reducing the terrorism and revenge and long-term costs to the USA is--- Dennis Kucinich, Democrat from Ohio. He always voted against the Iraq war and funding it. He wants to reverse corporate globalization policies, have coherent policies to correct global climate change and energy injustice, have single-payer health care for all, full civil rights for all. Call your Congressmen/women and Senators to support his HR 333 to impeach Cheney and support HR1234 to end the war. Check out his webpage.

Valerie Plame.

Bush will be impeached. The CIA doesn't like to be crossed. Kennedy and Nixon made the same mistake.

I have always felt that the CIA as constituted is antithetical to our constitutional rights. To my dismay they have been superseded by the NSA, the pentagon, multinational corporations, Congress, the Extreme Court, Bu$h the inferior and especially Shotgun Dick.

Don't forget that Bush Sr. once headed the CIA.

Bottle sez:

One naivete that ought to be corrected to
strengthen this entire thread: Not everybody
in the CIA is an extreme conservative.

****************

Ah Yes Bottle, but everybody in the CIA is a company man or woman. It's the company that is corrupt and positively rotten to its core.

Like in the Gestapo or Waffen SS most of the actual members are likable, good neighbor types--so are most of the Bushies!

UN-common-dreams:
"...an assassination or two would be far more a fitting end…"
You made agood point. Open dictatorship under disguise of suspension of 2008 election or too big a vote fraud is very risky for markets. Quiet pretzel thing may do a trick. Neo-Osvald may be waiting in the wings. Business as usual.

Don't forget that Bush Sr. was in Dallas the day JFK was killed and so was Gordon Liddy. Perhaps one of the items the Watergate crooks were trying to find, was the photo of Bush and Liddy in converstion near the book depository. Johnson is sworn in, bush is the new CIA director and the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was on the table.

Why is Impeachment off the table?

Our democracy is a sham ....

Whether it is secret prisons or secret illegal wiretaps on Americans, it appears that it takes people of conscience to do the right thing.

The people in this so called administration seem to have no conscience at all and consider people that do disloyal.

What a state of affairs when an insane person takes control of the oval office.

Ample facts about the CIA:
James Bennett: Control of Information in the United States.
Jonathan Bloch: KGB/CIA.
David Scheim: Contract on America.
Sure, there are good people in the CIA, but they don't run it.
The org is rotten since its founding, exactly run by white-collar criminals and corporate robber barons, using the US government to implement corporate policies, usually about big money.
The list of foreign political leaders should also include Americans, like John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy. The real crime in Watergate was that the CIA spied on the Democratic Party to help Republicans win.... because the CIA serves the Republican Party. Kennedy knew this, Carter should have if he doesn't, and Truman was leary about it.
The CIA is at the core of the Republican shadow government that gets what it wants even when there are Democratic Presidents or Legislatures.
The CIA is what brought the old Nazi and Fascisti war criminals to the United States and let them weave their way into our political and economic structure, continued to court the old Nazis and Fascisti shipped to South America via the Vatican Rat Line, and is Organized Crime... of the kind the Bushes are so fond of.
American Democracy will never again exist until all the CIA is shut down permanently, and all its secrets are exposed.
Clinton supposedly started to do it, but suddenly the Lewinsky and Whitewater scandals arose.
John and Robert Kennedy were killed after they discussed disbanding the CIA.
Make all the gestures they want, the CIA is rotten by nature, and needs to be replaced by an agency that serves its truly legitimate functions, and fully accountable to the United States Congress. There is so much overlap between CIA and Mafia that it's disgusting.
The CIA may well be the Main Problem with what's happening in Washington right now, including the 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections.
Probably highly related to the secrets Bush and Cheney refuse to release, while Rums-fled (to Germany, for a pardon for US war crimes.... What's that about? Who's running this country, anyway?).

You conspiracy theory folks make me laugh. EVERYTHING can be blamed on dark forces, moving behind history...

ILLUMINATI ARISE!

RestoreDemocracy: When you mentioned Clinton and Lewinsky, I did a search on that and saw where Peter Dale Scott pointed out that old Lucianne Goldberg goes all the way back to the Kennedy assassination days as a CIA operative--posing as a journalist. Old Linda Tripp was Army Intelligence and Delta Force. Geez, it never stops does it??? The CIA should come clean with all of these nasty people put on trial. The MSM should hang with the rest of them.

Have any of you seen the Mark Wahlberg film "The Shooter"--it has a little bit of everything in it, including the 9-11 omission report. Good movie. This guy is no Lon Harouchi--he doesn't shoot unarmed women holding babies, although there are those in the film as well.

that's old news. But when will congress stand up to bully Bush and Co. and impeach the ones who are responsible and then jail them. but as usual it will go unchallenged.

Better to work with the CIA then against it. You're just asking to be killed if you try to control it or disband it.

But what frightens me is Cheney basically bullies the CIA, but generally the CIA has killed people who try to bully them around, especially the magnitute that Cheney is doing so. Nixon tried to bully them too.

I think the CIA is responsible for all these leaks into white house corruption. they call these "cia dissenters"? i don't think so. The CIA knows what it's doing. They're tired of being lackeys for Bush and Cheney (when the two don't even appreciate them), and are now trying to embarass and expose Bush and Cheney, and they've provided more than enough evidence- spying, torture, contracts, Gonzalez, Plame etc etc. They've handfed the democrats with all the evidence they need. But they made a mistake in assuming the Democrats in congress were competent enough to use all this blatent evidence to hold Bush and Cheney responsible and accountable. Only the Democrats could have ruined such a grand oppurtunity that the CIA gave them.

Something seems amiss with that analysis. Remember that Bush Sr. was director of the CIA shortly before Iran/Contra -- and that even before he bought the presidency....er...was elected....Reagan/Bush were deal-making with the hostage takers, and the media was making a laughing stock out of Carter.

Clearly, the Bush Dynasty has enormous power over the CIA, and it operates outside the rule of law. I'm not referring to suit-and-tie analysts, ivy league PhD's in linguistics, librarians, or paper-pushers. I'm referring to the fixers who hook up right-wing death squads, druglords, etc. with a political agenda. The people who get their hands dirty.

So either the CIA, internally, (a) turns a blind eye to aspects of itself, (b) or it does not, and has no scruples whatsoever.

I've watched organizational dynamics and have been amazed at the level of secret dealings in even public places like universities (for instance the Googlization of scholarly/academic libraries) -- the deals appear to have been all hush-hush, excluding professional staff, etc. So if they can do that even in a public university, perhaps the CIA is like an onion with many layers of secrecy and exclusion within.

But what sort personality would tolerate a working environment such that you are compelled to keep your mouth shut, despite any illegal/egregious/unethical behavior you witness or actively support? Being too upright will probably prohibit your being hired in the first place, but as others have pointed out it would probably get you accidented otherwise.

"Bush and Cheney are war criminals! They should be tried at the Hague for War crimes."

The Hague -surely one must be joking . The trials will drag on for years and cost hundreds of millions .( All of which would have to be borne ultimately by you , the taxpayers).

Far better to have all War criminals tried by Iraqi courts.As the Saddam trials have proved ,these courts are far more effective than even the most blood-thirsty American lynch mob: Justice is very swift and summary , convictions a foregone conclusion .

And ,before anyone can say 'Jack Robinson' ,the condemned dangle lifelessly at the end of a rope.

thats what I'm saying. The CIA wouldn't allow whistleblowers. These are deliberate "leaks" and deliberate information that the CIA is trying to get out. Bush JR is a dope, and wasn't connected like his father, nor did he treat the CIA well like his father. Bush JR and Cheney must have a rocky relationship, at this point, with the CIA after years of bullying, usage, and blaming the CIA for their problems. I'm tellin you, all the information that can damn this administration to jail is OUT THERE. The media is ignoring all these crimes, and the democrats don't know what to do with it.

It could be that the system of inherited royalty is as bad for democracy as it is for the mafia. It assumes the kingpin's son is as ruthlessly efficient, organized, methodical, etc. as his father?

The CIA created, armed, trained, and financed Osama bin Laden with billions of dollars of US taxpayer money. Their aiding of secret prisons is no surprise. ABOLISH THE CIA !

Great posts everyone. Too bad most of American public does not know the true history of the CIA. Then they might understand why there is so much antagonism towards our country on the part of the world. Our continuing huge arms sales and a thousand militaty bases around the world also justifiably feed this perception.

It is not just people in the CIA who are angry with with Bush/co and the neocons, they are in virtually every agency of government. Look what they have done to the State Dept., the Justice Dept, the FDA, FEMA etc. I think all of these agencies have some good people at the lower and middle levels who are trying to do their jobs. Then they end up with corporate toddies or imcompetant Bush supporters for their bosses and all hell breaks loose.

Many people in the Military are really angry too and they hate Rumsfeld. I have heard interviews with generals who have opted out because they are fed up and want to tell the truth as they see it.

Of course, there are also people who love the Bush gang - the CEOs of the Multinationals and the security industry ie. Haliburton, Blackwater etc. So the question is will the Congress finally decide to do their Constituional duty and impeach this gang of thugs or will they sit on their hands hoping for their chance to take over the reigns of the"imperial presidency"?
And our job is to write, phone e-mail anyone in Congress we think can or might do something. As many of you have pointed out when even CIA agents are fed up, it means we are at a Crisis point. Dennis Kucinich is one of the few Congress Critters who has shown courage so he needs our support. Even if you think your congress person is totally corrupt or a complete numbskull, he or she may still be pushed to do the right thing if they think it might stop them from getting re-elected.

Marcos, I tried to read your paper; however, I got as far as "liberal American press" and stopped reading. Anytime I hear about the "liberal American press" I have the suspicion that I am not going to learn anything from this guy. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LIBERAL AMERICAN PRESS. The press in this country is all controlled by a few rich f&cks. I am so sick of hearing about a "liberal press" that I want to puke. "Liberal American Press" is a Limbaugh phrase. Anyone who repeats that mantra is just buying into the big lie. All of the so-called "liberal" press lied us in to war--can someone please point me to a "liberal press"? That "liberal" New York Times and Judith Miller? Hah! It is like that illusive "capitalism." Where is it--at some mom and pop pizza parlor, perhaps. It doesn't exist anywhere else. I'm reminded of Ghandi, when he said he would be happy to investigate Christianity, if he could ever find one of the elusive creatures.

I tend to side with those above who question why the CIA would be leaking information to "aid"(?) the Swiss investigator's report.
-----

Below is a short essay on the history of CIA torture.

The Long Shadow of CIA Torture Research
(Weekend Edition, May 29/31, 2004)
By ALFRED W. McCOY

The photos from Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison are snapshots, not of simple brutality or a breakdown in discipline, but of CIA torture techniques that have metastasized, over the past 50 years, like an undetected cancer inside the US intelligence community.
http://www.counterpunch.org/mccoy05292004.html
--
Latest book by author: A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror.
A Question of Torture

I it's a misnomer to paint any bureaucracy with a single stroke. There's probably a maze of different layers, cliques, co-options, etc. within the CIA. The fictional book "Six Days of the Condor" (Grady, 1974) suggested something like this.

Possibily any such organization which interfaces to the outside world enshrouded in so much secrecy may have a thousandfold greater ability hide parts of itself, internally, from other parts -- far more rules/restrictions applied to its employees.

Of course those with the most to hide are most at-risk for hiding graft, corruption & dirty tricks. So it seems to be a reasonable/logical conclusion that the core, most secret -- and best funded -- layer of that onion may be its most rotten?

Do you really want to know WHO killed Kennedy? Do you really want to know what happened on 911? Would it change anything? Would knowing these things really bring back a Constitutional Government to this country?
OK, You want to know, here it is. Lets see if Knowing will do anything to further Freedom.

Kennedy was killed by hired assassins, Military rangers hired by the CIA, who in turn were hired by the Rocker fellers in a meeting of the elite banksters who run the Federal Reserve.

Kennedy was killed for trying to turn around the mess this country was in. In 1913, the Federal Reserve was formed, and has controlled this country ever since. Kennedy, after the Bay of Pigs debockle, decided to do the right thing for the people of this country, and shoot down the Federal Reserve, and bring back constitutional money.

He wrote an executive order that closed the doors of the federal reserve, coined and printed enough constitutional money to pay the national debt, and had it issued. 3 weeks later he was killed because of it. Johnson immediately upon going into office, revoked that executive order, recalled all the money, and allowed the federal reserve to resume business as usual.

And the Trade towers, the owners of the towers stood to loose billions of dollars because the building was becoming unsafe. The floors were made from concrete poured over aluminum that was riveted to steel beams. The two dissimilar metals were not treated prior to being installed against each other, and the aluminum started to corrode. A team of inspectors were on the 40ith floor about a year before the buildings were demolished. They were there because the owners wanted to sell the buildings. It seems that the only way the owners would not loose all that money is if an act of God or Terror happened to destroy the towers, then the Insurance would cover the loss. Planes were laid to have them destroyed, and blame it on Terrorist, which gave a perfect reason for Bush to go to war with the terrorists neighbors and steal their oil. Bin Loden is and was a CIA man, not to mention his father is currently business partners with GWB and his oil companies.

So now you know. Will it make any difference?