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Democrats Must Stop Living In Past: What We Need Now Is The Guts To Get Us Out of Iraq
"The troops will march in; the bands will play; the crowds will cheer; and in four days everyone will have forgotten. Then we will be told to send in more troops. It's like taking a drink. The effect wears off, and you have to take another."
That was historian Arthur Schlesinger reflecting his concern about sending more troops into Vietnam, but he could just as well have been talking about Iraq.
Five years ago, the statue of Saddam was pulled down, the people celebrated the end of tyranny, more troops were sent, and the killing became relentless. We had to take drink after drink, as Schlesinger said, and send unit after unit to fight in a country that we assumed would welcome our invasion and embrace a democratic form of government.
Five years and our soldiers are still getting killed relentlessly, daily, and there is no democracy; there are only IEDs and anarchy. So far, 3,600 American soldiers have died, and more than 67,000 Iraqi civilians have lost their lives. And we are beside ourselves with worry and grief.
In early 2002, on the eve of the Iraq invasion, a report written by Middle Eastern expert Kenneth Katzman for the Congressional Research Service noted there was concern "Saddam's removal could lead to the fragmentation of Iraq and not necessarily produce a stable regime that is attuned to U.S. values and U.S. interests."
How prescient.
As a two-week debate over a major military bill begins in Congress, President Bush says he wants to continue to see if the surge of soldiers he sent can do the job, and he wants to wait until September to see the results. But we're impatient; we've heard his promises before. We believed the weapons of mass destruction stuff, we believed Mission Accomplished, we believed when we saw the Iraqi people participating in elections.
But things have reached such an impasse that often we don't know who the enemy is: Is it Sunni insurgents? Shiite militia? Al-Qaida in Iraq? Iran-backed troops?
This really is Vietnam all over again, with all the attendant misinformation about how well the war is going. It is a hopeless war and an embarrassment for American diplomats.
Barack Obama is right when he says any solution to the war will be "messy." There is no elegant way out, and as Congress debates a military reauthorization bill this week and Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan puts forward a bill to begin troop withdrawal in 120 days, it behooves our legislators to look back at Vietnam and realize that the world will not come to an end if we leave Iraq. Political pressure must continue to end this misconceived, misguided war.
'They have had their chances' As more Republicans criticize the president's intransigence, the most notable being Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, Republican leader of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Democrats should have a surer footing in their efforts to begin the withdrawal of combat troops. That is what the American public wants -- 56 percent, according to Pew Research. The more troops we throw at the problem, the worse it gets: A progress report on Iraq states that although some of the violence has been quelled in places such as Anbar province, the Iraqi government still does not have its act together.
"We are about to receive yet another report telling us that Iraq's political leaders have not met a single goal they set for themselves to demonstrate any kind of progress towards stability. Not one goal," Obama said in a speech in Des Moines on Tuesday. "Well, they have had their chances, and George Bush has had his -- we cannot keep our troops in the middle of a civil war that Iraq's leaders refuse to end. It's time to bring them home."
But Democrats need to stop arguing among themselves about who voted to authorize the war, who apologized about his vote and who opposed it from the start. Obama makes much of his anti-war stance before he was elected to the Senate, but who knows what pressures would have been imposed on him if he had been in the Senate at the time the vote was taken? Hillary Clinton did vote to go into Iraq, but she makes no bones now about the need for withdrawal. Whether or not she apologized for her vote is moot. As Lyndon Johnson once said, "We can draw lessons from the past, but we cannot live in it." We need to figure how to go forward and disengage.
Democrats must support Levin's proposal; they need to show backbone and consider cutting off some of the funding -- just leaving enough to maintain security troops in Iraq -- if it's the only way to counteract the ostrich-like tendencies of Bush. Most importantly, they need to stop worrying about voter backlash. No one wants to vote for a bunch of wimps. Just ask Jimmy Carter.
Email:Jennifer Hunter
© 2007 The Chicago Sun-Times
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53 Comments so far
Show AllI think it is a mistake to continue to compare Iraq with Vietnam. In Vietnam there was no prize the equivalent of the oil in Iraq. Like the monkey with his fist around the nut in the jar, the US is loath to let go of the prize even at the expense of disaster.
But would the proposed withdrawl really be a true withdrawl, or an attempt at windowdressing for electibility while the troops remain in the fine print.
Anyone know the exact text of this amendment? Or a number to find it online?
Sorry, but I'm highly suspicious, and I want to see what it actually says. The bit in the last paragraph, about leaving enough funding to maintain security troops in Iraq, sure seems to point to a major loophole. Heck, we don't have a enough troops to maintain security today, so a loophole with wording like that could pretty much negate any withdrawal.
So, I'd like to see the exact text of what Mr. Levin is proposing? Anyone know where it is?
As a respected surgeon, I can tell all of you that your problems with the Democrats are biological in nature. I have successfully removed vertebrae and testicles from each member of this party (part of the initiation, you know.) Kucinich however failed to show up for his appointment.
It's not about the now, or the past you know. They are looking forward, these pols. You see, they are looking ahead to their re-elections! Clinton and the other pro-war dems, foresaw a loser war being pinned on the repubs and voted in favor of iraq war, thinking it would benefit the Democrats in 2006 and 2008. That came true, but the dems can't get out of the forward-thinking frame of mind. It is and always will be about the next election.
Great article.
Only one quibble: "67,000 Iraqi civilian deaths" is off by an order of magnitude:
http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html
It's probably more like a million.
NO, only one. Just ask Poppy.
RE: PREDICTIONS OF IRAQ DEBACLE WERE "PRESCIENT"?
"...on the eve of the Iraq invasion, a report written by Middle Eastern expert Kenneth Katzman...noted there was concern 'Saddam's removal could lead to the fragmentation of Iraq and not necessarily produce a stable regime that is attuned to U.S. values and U.S. interests.'"
"How prescient."
Prescient? No. It was an obvious, likely outcome - a prediction easy to arrive at with a general grasp of US-Middle East affairs. Predictable and widely predicted on the left.
Go back to the hysterical right wing mood of the buildup months before the invasion to understand how it was missed: those drunk with CheneyBush dreams of military conquest did not simply "miss" it, but continuously attacked critics as traitors and defeatists.
The liberal-progressive-populist babble of the defenders of the status quo will continue forever... perhaps until the oil runs out, global warming wipes us out, or the economy simply collapses from the massive looting of the military-industrial complex.
See this article from WSWS:
Democrats, White House agree: Iraq war will rage on regardless of Senate debate
By Patrick Martin
12 July 2007
Full critical article here:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/iraq-j12.shtml
"...As former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger spelled out in a grimly worded op-ed column published Monday, "Whatever our domestic timetables, the collapse of the American effort in Iraq would be a geopolitical calamity.
"The war in Iraq will not be ended by the Bush administration, or by a Democratic successor, because both the Democratic and Republican parties are unalterably committed to the defense of the worldwide strategic interests of the American financial aristocracy. The struggle against war requires a political break by working people from the two-party system and the building of a new independent political party of the working class."
First of all, who are we to set "goals" a sovereign government must meet "or else?" Contrary to what Obama says, the Iraqis did not set said goals for themselves - a statement that is insultingly silly, unless you're talking about the 70% of Parliament that wants us out of their country ASAP. Then Obama is right - the Iraqis have failed to meet that particular goal.
Look - the country is naked and bleeding from every orifice. No army, no police, no air force, no navy, almost no hospitals or doctors or electricity or water or, well, anything. We can't just leave the patient dying on the table because we couldn't stop some moron from operating without any training. We pummeled the living hell out of the country, the least we can do is find a way to atone for America's heinous behavior. Leaving the country unable to defend itself and without even basic resources is as criminal as what we've already wrought.
I hate to say it, but much as I hate this war and have opposed it from the start, I think a rapid withdrawal of our troops would be even worse than our presence there now is.
I think we have all (including progressives), completely misunderstood the situation in the whole Islamic world, and not just Iraq. Their social structure itself is simply not compatible with democracy and at this time in history the two are not going to meld. Nor are the tribes/sects compatible with peace with each other.
Islamic cultures have a vertical heirarchal structure, headed by tribal leaders and sectarian imams supported by private militias, and orders flow vertically downward from top to bottom. This includes the particular religious sect the imam prescribes. Members of the tribe obey or else.
Democracy is different - its structure is horizontal and works by networking laterally and reaching across disagreements to find common ground between two or more factions who "agree to disagree" on some things but do agree on others. Basically, it's turn-taking, the bedrock of democracy itself (but not an Islamic value). Also, Western democracies have managed to take religion out of this mix by their value of freedom of religion, something impossible in Islamic cultures, which are sectarian-based and in which NOT believing in Islam is a mortal sin.
I agree with those who say that the minute we withdraw our troops, all h--l will break loose. Why? Because the sectarian-based tribes (i.e., all of them) will indeed fall upon each other like mad dogs. Remember Rwanda, and notice Darfur or Congo right now. All tribal/sectarian conflicts. And don't forget the recent pictures of the 15-year-old girl being stoned to death by her own family because she fell in love with a boy from the wrong sect and tribe. We simply don't understand any of this. But the sectarian Islamic tribes hate each other and will lose no time in attacking each other. This will result in an unimaginable bloodbath, and by our too-rapid withdrawal we will have brought it about.
We are stuck in quicksand here. But we have great responsibility here too. I have no solution to this dilemma, which we have brought about by making war in Iraq in the first place. It is complicated by the oil, of course, which we want and are there to get control of. But at least our presence creates a pretense of someone being in charge, a cop of sorts. (Not the Iraqi "government" - they are as tribal/sectarian-thinking as all the other tribes.)
I hate to say all this, because I am a firm peacenik (since the Vietnam-protesting years) but I can't agree that we should withdraw our troops now. Any bright ideas out there?
Dear Grandma,
I think I can answer your question. In military science, the first duty is to use the troops only when they can accomplish something. Anything less is murder (others may argue that it's murder anyway, but my moral compass is flawed). So what can our kids in uniform accomplish there? The Surge is designed to create enough security for a political settlement to be feasible. On Wednesday, Thomas Fingar , the chairman of the National Intelligence Council, the intelligence community's top analytical body, reported to the House Armed Services Committee
"Communal violence and scant common ground between Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds continues to polarize politics. Prime Minister Maliki's national reconciliation agenda is still only at its initial stages. As the Intelligence Community (IC) noted in the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) published in January, even if violence is diminished, given the current winner-take-all attitude and sectarian animosities infecting the political scene, Iraqi leaders will be hard pressed to achieve sustained political reconciliation. The religious Shia foundation of Maliki's government—the Unified Iraqi Alliance—does not present a unified front. It is split over the creation of federal regions, and the two largest factions—loyal to the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council and Muqtada al-Sadr respectively—are bitter rivals. One Shia party, the Fadila Party, has left the coalition.
"With political reconciliation showing few appreciable gains, we have noted that Iraqis increasingly resort to violence. The struggle among and within Iraqi communities over national identity and the distribution of power has eclipsed attacks by Iraqis against the Coalition Forces as the greatest impediment to Iraq's future as a peaceful, democratic, and unified state."
In other words, our top intelligence people maintain that there isn't much chance of a political settlement EVEN IF THE SURGE IMPROVES SECURITY.
Leaving our troops in Iraq-Nam cannot do any good, and that is essentially what our own spooks are saying.
The hardest thing for Americans seems to be accepting that they cannot fix a problem, but in this instance, we can't because the people in Iraq don't want to fix it our way. They want to fix it their way -- and we are in their way.
Will all hell break loose if we leave? Hasn't it already?
There are alot of people in this world who don't cotton to democracy. What many africans need, and asians need is authoritarianism. A strongman that rises from the rubble and brings stability, and a sense of fear, I suppose. a strongman cannot unite iraq until we leave. A middle class ethic lends itself to democracit thought and people feeling that they are self-sufficient enough to manage their own affaris. the backwards-leaning countries, the ones with a healthy aristocracy fear democracy and work against the peoples interest.
Instead of strategic bombing, how about a withdrawal in addition to strategic FUNDING. Dump resources into areas that can gain any progress in restoring the country's infrastructure, and cut off immediately those recipients that are siphoning off said resources for their own gain.
I'm oversimplifying this, but the basic strategy could work. When I say dump I mean DUMP, massive amounts of building materials and survival necessities dropped on a daily basis. If we spent half the money doing that as we do dropping bombs, well, we wouldn't have so much of a terrorist problem.
I don't believe anyone believes me.
The Iraq war started in 2003, not 2002, right? So, even though it may feel like it's been five years (or even longer) it actually has been just over four. It has no bearing on the larger point of Ms. Hunter's piece, but she clearly is in error on this matter.
big print giveth
small print taketh away
"small change"
tom waits '76
The U.S. had no business attacking and occupying Iraq in the first place, so why are they still there?!? This BS can go on forever....
Hey grandma --
In addition to the points made by RichM and vinlander, here are some strictly pragmatic, practical reasons why the United States is utterly powerless to influence, much less control, what's happening in Iraq:
After we invaded, we left 650,000 TONS of munitions unprotected, a cache that, not surprisingly, was quickly looted. Within a few months after our invasion, the markets in Baghdad were openly selling the official uniforms of the Iraqi military and police. Those two factors mean our soldiers will be facing IEDs, suicide bombers and other assorted mayhem for, oh, the next few centuries.
I suppose we could ask our "enemies" to kindly make themselves known to us by wearing those giant, rainbow-colored Afro wigs, or sandwich-board signs stenciled with "terrorist." But outside of that, how do you suggest we proceed?
The number of people killed in Iraq is not just a million, it is everyone who is in Iraq. The DU, "depleted uranium" weapons we have used in Iraq is far enough to insure every sngle person in that country and many more in bordering countries are going to die from radiation posioning. Many have already died from it, others are now so sick thay are permanently disabled and some are just exhbiting the symptoms of radiation poisoning. All will be dead within a few years. Everyone, includes all of our ground troops and anyone who has visited Baghdad.
That is not my opinion, that is how it is. The radiation readings in Baghdad alone are nearly 2,000 times the normal background readings. Inhaling a few microscopic specks of uranium 238 isotopes will insure the person will die. Powdered uranium now literally blankets the country and there is no way to clean it up. They are all dead people walking and so are our troops. Now is the time to bomb Iran Bush so much as says and kill another fifty million or so innocent people. that is just the tip of a very large iceburg and no one seems to be overly concerned about it. I do not understand why our troops, including their commanders have not munitied.____ Strange, unbelievable.
To RichM: Thanks for your helpful comments! I'll try to respond to some of your points (not the ad hominem ones).
First, I agree that "all hell has already broken loose." But it could be a lot worse and will degenerate into total chaos if we leave too abruptly. Second, I would never hold that we or any other western nation has a perfect democracy - but at least we like to think we aim for it. Unfortunately, the Iraqis don't even want it. This wouldn't matter except that what they do seem to want is total victory for their particular tribe and sect and revenge on the other side. This bitterness is not the fault of the US - we have aggravated it but it has been going on for centuries without our help. You say we have "maneuver[ed] to incite all manner of sectarian conflicts within Iraq, as part of the classic divide-and-conquer strategy." This goal wouldn't take much maneuvering to achieve - Saddam Hussein had already accomplished it and used it to rule the country like the tyrant he was.
As for the religious right, of course I'm aware of their power over our present government, and I think it's ridiculous and embarrassing. In some ways it may be the greatest danger we face - because they have the power to change our whole society. But only temporarily. Because the pendulum does swing, and this rampant religiosity will wear itself out as the holier-than-thou folks get sick of being so "holy" all the time. Must be pretty boring, don't you think? It won't last -
To vinlander: Your quote from Thomas Fingar seems to support my idea that the various factions are becoming more politized and violently revenge-driven. He says "The Surge is designed to create enough security for a political settlement to be feasible -" but makes the point that it's not feasible. Fingar explains:
"With political reconciliation showing few appreciable gains, we have noted that Iraqis increasingly resort to violence. The struggle among and within Iraqi communities over national identity and the distribution of power has eclipsed attacks by Iraqis against the Coalition Forces as the greatest impediment to Iraq's future as a peaceful, democratic, and unified state." In other words, they themselves don't want it.
Perhaps our troops should be given a new mission - as peacekeepers. Nasty job, but someone has to do it or - well, it's all hell breaking loose time all over again.
To neomunk: There you go again, thinking outside the box! I like the plan - since we've reduced the country to rubble we certainly owe them all the repairs we can manage. It would give our troops something positive to do, too. (Just don't put FEMA in charge of this -)
You Democrat haters must be thrilled that Bush is going to veto the bill to get us our of Iraq.
RE: THE "RIDICULOUS AND EMBARRASSING" RELIGIOUS RIGHT
grandma July 12th, 2007 8:19 pm
"As for the religious right, of course I'm aware of their power over our present government, and I think it's ridiculous and embarrassing. In some ways it may be the greatest danger we face - because they have the power to change our whole society. But only temporarily. Because the pendulum does swing, and this rampant religiosity will wear itself out as the holier-than-thou folks get sick of being so "holy" all the time. Must be pretty boring, don't you think? It won't last -"
1) "Ridiculous and embarrassing"? This trivializes a menace. Intentionally.
2) Oh, but wait, the post goes on to say that they "may" be the "greatest danger we face" because - in unspecified ways - they "have the power to change our whole society." Oh, but wait, no, they're not the greatest danger - because, fortunately - ta-DAH - enter the MAGIC PENDULUM and the watch-me-pull-a-MAGIC LAW OF PSYCHOLOGY-out-of-my-hat that will quickly set all right in democracyland.
Nasty lying troll. You're as right wing as they come.
RE: ARTHUR SCHLESINGER ON VIETNAM - CRITIC OR APOLOGIST?
"historian Arthur Schlesinger reflecting his concern about sending more troops into Vietnam"
Schlesinger:
1) Founder of Americans for Democratic Action - Cold War liberals who refused to defend First Amendment rights for Communists during the McCarthy Period. Presented themselves as "moderate" and "reasonable" in their opposition to McCarthy.
2) Kennedy admistration employee - lied to press about US role in attempted Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. Later admitted he lied. No apologies.
(Discussed by Noam Chomsky in:
http://www.chomsky.info/articles/19670223.htm)
3) Apologist for Vietnam War - finally came out against it on pragmatic grounds that it could not succeed.
(Discussed by Noam Chomsky in American Power and the New Mandarins, and, briefly, in online article:
http://www.ditext.com/chomsky/ppp.html
I know many do RichM. Thanks for responding.
What I cannot understand, is why we aren't having epilectic fits about it. If an article concerning the enviroment is on CD, there are six to eight blogs, usually most are by three or four people. The next day the article disappears. An article about Cheney,___ wow, that brings out the whole gang. Hell, Cheney is dangerous, but the absolutely insane continuing use of DU is going to kill every living thing on the planet and it can happen in the next twenty to thirty years if we don't stop it.
I wonder if most of us have kids? Does anyone really care,___ really? It sure does not seem like it to me. There should be no other issue of more importance.
That is why I wonder if many believe it, not believe me, but trust what the multitude of doctors and scientists are telling us and from the "obvious clues" from nature. It is deadly serious and it don't make a bit of difference right now, of who is the best candidate for the presidency, or should we get out of Iraq,___because we are killing us, all of us and our kids and all life on Earth.
It really could be likened to this, and this is as bizzaire as ignoring the use of DU is. It's like an insane serial killer was pointing a cocked pistol at our head and we ask him if he's a registered Democrat and does he like John Edwards? Sometimes there should be priorities.
There are many other important issues, and your mentioning Saddam, our governmet also furnished him with the poison gas he used against the Iranians and Kurds. Those type of issues are really not as important as our use of DU, which must be stopped. Now!!!
It will not be stopped until there is a public outcry, louder than any ever heard. I don't believe that cry is going to start with this forum___ of very good people. I don't know if it ever will be heard before it is far too late.___ Then, the crying will begin and it will not be over spilled milk.
To Evelyn Smith - I also believe you, and I suggest that everyone on this blog Google for "depleted uranium" and find out what this is about if they don't know already. They should settle down for a bit when they do, because there's a lot to find out and really exploring it all takes some time. It probably really is the most important issue we all face right now and a deadly one too.
Thank you Granny!!
We should add, there are also articles written by those who favor nuclear energy and coal fired power plants and or, favor the use of DU for weapons use, as Cheney/Bush do. They deny, deny, deny. There is nothing to deny.
Uranium 238 isoptopes are now fouling our atmosphere to a critical level, it isn't just Iraq, it's spreading all over the planet and the clues of what it is doing to life are clearly obvious. Please do go to Google and ask for depleted uranium. Thank you again Grandma and RichM and all of the others who have written excellent posts about DU on other Common Dreams articles.
To RichM - About democracy - you say
"because the US form of "democracy" is basically a carefully-constructed illusion. It's shallow & limited. The whole idea is to get people to believe that voting once every 4 years — ie, choosing between 2 pre-selected things that are nearly identical — that this elaborate ritual constitutes "democracy."
I doubt that anyone would agree that your definition is a fair description of democracy.
It's a lot more complicated than that. So - please give us your definition of what a democracy is?
I begin to think you are fulminating just for the fun of it.
...........
To baska - I hate religion and have been atheist since I was 12. So please don't make up stories about me. It's also a new treat for me to be called right wing and a "nasty lying troll." It's also a surprise to find that here, because all the posters on CD respect each other even though they often disagree, and there's no name-calling.
What came first, the chicken, or the egg?
We can't stop war, end poverty, prevent nuclear holocaust, prevent millions from dying for lack of health care, prevent DU, and I could go on, until we have a cooperative society.
We are still in our pre-history. In the year 2007, as a world social organization, we can not provide the basic needs of the worlds population.
The only way we will be able to move forward is for the 90% of the worlds population to be represented over the 10% that control most of the worlds wealth.
This is the task history is demanding. We are not all in this together. Our interests are not the same as the ruling elite running the world for their profit.
We don't need a cooperative society to stop anything that is so illegal. DU use is the last word for weapons of mass destruction.
The United Nations could stop it, and world wide humanity would learn the truth. The United States could stop it tommorow; we by far are using the most. Bush, Cheney, Kissinger, Rummy, Rove, and many many others think it's use is safe and A-Okay. It is not!!
The people who own the uranium mines, like the British Royal Family for one, don't give a rip. They make billions from it. Sadly, it is greed and utter stupidity that allows it to continue.
If we don't stop, it will kill all of us and all of our children. That is the bottom line.
Is a troll somethng bad? how about a nice honest troll? Granny, it's ok to hate religion. I do too, as long as we don't hate God, cause there has to be one. And I'm not implying you do. I don't assume about others. When people attack us though, during a friendly debate, we don't have to assume what they are. They showed everyone the are load mouth oafs, or maybe, ____ miserable trolls.
My question - watching The News Hour replay (pupper
TX Sen. Hutchinson is speaking and I have to keep
hitting MUTE so I don't have to listen to her inane
comments) - it was said the vote to have troop
withdrawal start in 120 days and be complete by
April 1 requires 60 votes and 67 to override a veto.
Why does it take 60 votes? (I think it is 60 votes
to stop a fillibuster, but they didn't say that's
what this was about.)
The simple thing is just not to pass another funding
bill in September - that only takes 51 votes, but
anyone think that'll happen?
We won't leave Iraq, we may pull some troops out, but we will not leave!!! You can make book on it. Unless Bush is thrown out of office and that is most unlikely. We're screwed, ever have anyone tell you to go screw yourself? I have___ always ignored them, but this time I, we, have done it.
CrackerJack69 (3:28 pm) writes "The Democrats cannot be blamed for not ending the war. … more Democrats have opposed the war in Iraq, and Bush-Cheney policies, than their Republican opposition."
This is dishonest rubbish, typical of the apologists. The Democrats have been Bush's ally since the beginning, they voted for the war and now they refuse to end it. Democrats have blood on their hands the same way Republicans do. Stop lying to yourself. The Democrats too benefit from war booty. They have merchants of death in their districts that get the cash. They benefit from the huge spike in "homeland security" funds, and so have every incentive to keep the level of war hysteria high and growing. They are part of the state apparatus, and war is the health of the state. They too have much to lose from ending the war and much to gain from keeping some form of the war going.
It occurs to me, to be honest, that there is very little indication that a troop withdrawal in name will actually mean a disengagement from Iraq or if that would even be a good thing to begin with. Hillary has recently extended her phased withdrawal plan, Barack seems bent on staying in the region despite his aversion to the conflict in general. Dems might force "withdrawal" but their foreign policy platforms give us no indication of a change in approach. Check out what this Berlin website is saying http://www.atlantic-community.org/index.php/articles/view/The_Next_American_President%3A_Democratic_Foreign_Policy
Looks like the international community might finally understand that American foreign policy is pretty consistent and that this Iraq thing was not an aberration, just a more visible failure.
where does this figure of "more than 67,000" dead come from? I believe that according to amnesty international and other groups that it is more like 900,000. well I guess that 970,000 IS MORE than 67,000.
Okay, I think we need to send a loud message to our Reps. Start sending them ball, golf balls, tennis balls, basket balls, whatever you can get your hands on. Write on them get some balls and stand up to Bush! or something of that sort. Letters and emails can be put aside, filling your office with balls, (I'm suggesting hot pink for Code Pink), but I think it will make an impression.
Anyone with me?
Grandma -
My bright idea is to start total US troop withdrawal immediately, to be completed by Christmas/Ramadan, and publicly announce that the only developments on the ground that can possibly delay completion of that timetable are:
A. Attack upon our forces (from any faction) that requires military countermeasures to insure our troops' safe departure; or
B. Attack upon the current Iraqi government's forces (from any faction) that results in a specific request from Maliki for temporary US military assistance in the field, with any such request specifically approved by the US ambassador and General Patraeus.
The method behind this tactical madness is to cut through the rhetorical bullshit at here about what is "defeat", "precipitous withdrawal", "retreat", "surrender", "partial redeployment", and so forth, and maximize the ability of the Maliki regime (or any replacement central Iraqi government) to use the withdrawal timetable for US forces as an incentive for all factions to at least temporarily refrain from escalating the civil war's violence, so as not to disturb the American occupation forces' departure.
The last three years' dynamics have of course worked in the opposite direction: if you are among the 90% of the Iraqi civilian population who want the foreign infidels to leave, then killing occupation forces and their domestic collaborators is the means to get the Americans to tire of the bloodshed, pack up, and go back home.
So reverse that dynamic. Create a nationalist incentive instead for all Iraqi factions to move towards a sectarian ceasefire, in order to facilitate the common goal of ending the US military presence.
Yes, Bush's invasion decision and later occupation policies do indeed make the United States morally responsible for unleashing the civil war and terrorist attacks that now plague the people of Iraq. But withdrawal comes first, reparations later. Tinkering further with the troop levels, mission statements, or personality of the field commander simply prolongs the disintegration of that society into ever smaller warring fragments, and delays the inevitable day of internal reckoning.
The White House and the Pentagon lost the ability to control or predictably focus the unfolding of internal political events on the ground in Iraq long ago. Unfortunately, there is an abundance of partisan opportunists and bipartisan fools in Washington who remain floundering about in denial.
As Pogo said the last time America marched off to bloody folly in Southeast Asia, we have met the enemy and it is us.
This bright idea is the best I can come up with for belated damage control - recognizing that the same 6-month withdrawal time period could be used by the UN, EU, or the adjacent countries of the Middle East to fashion some sort of diplomatic framework for dealing with refugees, and containing the eventual outbreak of militia-on-militia violence tragically looming on the horizon.
Now is not the time to hold 'em, or fold 'em, or time to run.
But it's well past time to walk away from Little George's great Mesopotamian crusade, and venture forth to sin no more.
Bill from Saginaw
To RichM -
I think you and I actually agree on much of this mess. You say - "the idea that the mess in Iraq is largely the fault of the Iraqis; that it's 'not our fault' if they are primitive savages who are not as culturally enlightened as we 'great practitioners of democracy' in the West. This is pure & utter BS, just like all 'White Man's Burden'
stories throughout history. It's blaming the victims of our own monstrous crimes for the horrific conditions we have created. This is a deeply repellent idea."
Yes, deeply repellent indeed. But we have not created the basic, underlying structures that characterize the Islamic world - those have been there for centuries. But if you're saying that our western hubris has exacerbated the rivalries that already existed, I agree - and actually, look first for that at the British colonialization of the area. We have simply adopted their point of view.
My argument about leaving too precipitously is that by doing so we may be creating even more bloodshed than is going on now.
Someone on this blog mentioned that people claimed that a "bloodbath" was going to happen if we left Vietnam but that in fact, it did not. But it did - only it was carried out by the Khmer Rouge, not the Viet Cong. The minute we leave Iraq every faction in the area that wants the power and the oil (just like we do) will come out of the woodwork and take full advantage of the existing chaos. This includes the Iraqi tribes as well as others in the area.
That's why I think we should stay but as a peacekeeping force - and a reconstruction force too. Neomunk has a good idea - it's simple justice - if someone comes into your house and trashes it, they should clean up the mess. And if we took that turn in the road, the UN might actually help us.
BTW RichM - I meant to congratulate your 85-year old mother - may we all live to be 85 and still interested in what's going on in the world.
Uhhh, Granny, I believe the Khmur Rouge were in Cambodia. There was no blood bath in Vietnam after we left. The largest number of deaths occurred, when a giant USAF C-5 aircraft crashed while evacuating hundreds of children from vietnam___ so they would be saved from death. Irony is often so prevelant.
Anyway, it doesn't matter if we leave or stay, we've killed every person in Iraq with the use of depleted uranium for weapons. They are all dead. ALL! It will only be a matter of time.
To Bill from Saginaw -
You say: "This bright idea is the best I can come up with for belated damage control - recognizing that the same 6-month withdrawal time period could be used by the UN, EU, or the adjacent countries of the Middle East to fashion some sort of diplomatic framework for dealing with refugees, and containing the eventual outbreak of militia-on-militia violence tragically looming on the horizon."
Yes - and if we turned our forces into a peacekeeping mission during that time we might actually be on the right track for a change. You're right to mention the refugees - I notice that a lot of Americans (and others, but not on this blog) think we should leave as fast as possible because American soldiers are getting killed. There seems to be little or no concern for the tens of thousands of Iraqis who are getting killed and wounded every day or the massive crowds of refugees. This blithe unconcern is shameful. We owe the Iraqis a lot and should stay there to help keep a peace (if that's possible) and help with re-building.
To Evelyn Smith - Oops! Sorry - I was thinking of the horrors that the Khmer Rouge inflicted on their own country (Cambodia), as you say. I guess I'm getting my wars mixed up. No surprise there - like many on this blog, I'm no spring chicken and unfortunately, I've seen a lot of wars come and go. As have we all.
It's like the old Chinese curse - "May you be reborn in interesting times." So what terrible thing did we do in some past life that we're here now in such "interesting" times?
Thanks for the correction -
Hi Granny Babe. Yes indeedy, I get mixed up often in my elderly condition. I can't find my zipper sometimes. I like the Pogo quotes here, that sage writer was on the stick and put the message out with a cartoon series. Heck, that was sixty some years ago and nothng has changed for the better, it just gets worse. Cheers,___ Kem Patrick
Evelyn Smith - Just as an exercise in depression, I'd invite everyone on this blog to look over history and count the number of days in their lifetimes in which there have been no wars or genocides going on - anywhere.
And now the DU situation amounts to a new genocide, no?
YES!!
DU is genocide for all of humanity and for all forms of life on this little world we have named Earth. And does anyone really care? Anyone? Yes. Almost everyone? NO!
Evelyn Smith - Thanks for the supportive exchange - and meet you on another thread,I'm sure.
How did this article get on commondreams? The author misplaces iraqi civilian deaths by 10 times, announces support for the levin amendment which is a very watered down Reid-Feingold, and then goes on to tell us to shut up about Hillary Clinton's warmongering.
Jeese.
I imagine it got on because it gives us bloggers sonething to blog about. Besides, we should get out of Iraq and I personally learned a lot here. How bout you?