Scville, what you say is partly true, yet abusive parents don't always come to that conclusion or point of consideration--they are just abusing their kids because they were once abused themselves. I know a family who changed when their kids were quite young, and now they've grown up very happy, well-adjusted and able to live creative, innovative lives outside of american slavery. It is possible, and remember that abuse and violence don't make for a well-adjusted slave in the first place; they also cause eating disorders, alcoholism, PTSD, drug addiction, an inability to form close relationships...all things that don't make someone successful in a capitalist society. It may be difficult sometimes for an enlightened, healthy person to live in this society, but to have the memory inside their bodies of once being truly loved and accepted at an early age will give them strength to find alternatives. There are already intentional, self-sustaining solar organic farm-communties in places like Hawaii that accept new members; but only if you can communicate and live with the other residents in a healthy, non-abusive manner.

http://www.dreamingearth.net

"Working side by side, respectfully is the only way to break that meanness. I agree, violence is perpetuated by dominant mindset! This is a dead zone for both parties. Too bad if you live in a culture where there is no light and no escape."

Yes, working side by side to make all forms of corporal punishment, emotional abuse, and genital mutilation (that is both male genital mutilation, "circumcision" which is also a traumatic, cruel, ugly, hatefull act, and female genital mutilation) aimed at children illegal everywhere will erase the fact that male children are on the receiving end much more, and will therefore erase the barriers which are caused by abusive mothers and fathers.

http://www.dreamingearth.net

A good way to make "men" your allies is to stop the disproportionate amount of violence that boys are internationally subjected to in their youth; violence and emotional insensitivity, actually. Don't pretend that the "differences" you see come from nowhere or are "natural."

http://www.dreamingearth.net

Does it make sense to have lots of kids? Our culture has built into it a mindset that status and a measure of your worth as a provider goes hand in hand with producing big families. This was true in the past!

So does it make sense? (I'm talking to people maybe 30 years and under.)

What makes sense, considering the population curve in your community? Do you feel like we are just packing in more people at the expense of a home for the entire web of life?

This whole façade is propped up on the back of fossil fuels! If we don't grow food locally and go to fighting over oil, we may well starve people on a massive scale. Now there is population control.

The world over, people need to understand what their future will look like. Education is the best solution that we can hope for so young people can best plan out their lives.

Io Q. Lellity,- Working side by side, respectfully is the only way to break that meanness. I agree, violence is perpetuated by dominant mindset! This is a dead zone for both parties. Too bad if you live in a culture where there is no light and no escape.

Ultimately I want to work for "true democracy" throughout the world. I dream of the elite of the world to send both messages, (1- life is simpler with fewer children, since we aren't homesteading farms anymore, and (2- you need to have an idea about what's happening with your fellow humans on the planer. Education!

I say the elite because they are the ones who create the structure the rest of us live by, and they should be listening to our pleas!

NMBill,

The elites of the World cannot listen to our pleas because they are insane with their instinctive desire to control everything and grow their wealth and power endlessly and forever, regardless of ecocidal consequences, and tragically, there is no peaceful way to stop them. I wish there were, but they are madmen and neo-fascists busy creating a modern version of the Roman Empire, which will kill the planet, but they don't care as long as they can play thier games of power to the end.

Thus, Cheney/Bush is busy arranging for another terrorisy attack in the USA to pull his Iraq War up from the people's condemnation and justify their emrgency powers to rule by decree and expand the war to include the whole World.

Imagine that - women who hang around with supportive decent men are better off. Women can help this out by actually dating nice men instead of the type many women seek out. They can also raise their sons to be better people and their daughters to look for men with good character. Any woman who has one of these supportive guys should not tolerate badmouthing ALL men.

I have been married to the same woman for 25 years so I offer that as evidence that I am an OK guy. I am not good looking or rich so I found it nearly impossible to go on even a casual date with 95% plus of the women in college (forget high school).

When I started dating my future wife I overheard several women discussing what was wrong with her that she would date me. I found out later they actually said stuff like this in front of her. She kept me and got differnt friends. Now that is a woman worth keeping and supporting.

How refreshing that men are invited to play a constructive role instead of being shamed as perpetrators. And surprise! It works!

I've been a "feminist" since I was about 9 years old. (I'll tell you that story sometime...)
I believe absolutely in the social, economic and political equality of women -- and I don't have much respect for any man who doesn't.
I think you can know everything important there is to know about a man by the way he treats women, children & animals.

SJ

www.spartacusjones.com

Abusive parenting of both boys and girls is a reflection of the fact that we live in a slave society. Parents area aware at some level that their children must be conditioned to servility and obedience if they are to take their place in this society. There is an awareness that children must be conditioned to competitiveness, if they are to "make it" in a class society.

Native American tribes were horrified by the way white people treated their children.Among many Native American tribes, corporal punishment was unknown--and unnecessary for socialization, since theirs was not a class society, or a slave society in which children would grow up to a life of servitude of some elite group. In such a society, children are socialized by the modeling of adults, rather than by violence, coercion, or manipulation.

We, on the other hand, are keenly aware that our children must be conditioned to blind obedience to employers, and to political and other power structures. We are also rather keenly aware that this conditioning must begin early. Our educational systems continue with this conditioning, integrating the assumptions of servitude and competition into the mental life of children and young people, and by placing them in an institutional setting in which conformity, obedience, and regimentation become habitual behaviors.

This is the difficulty we face in raising our children: If we are careful to avoid violence--mental, physical, or emotional--against them, if we raise them to believe in individual freedom and humanitarianism, we will not have fitted them for the kind of future our society offers them. I mean, what self-respecting person will agree to pee in a cup, as a condition of employment? For that matter, what self-respecting person would go to work stooging for governments or corporations? And what other life choices are available to them? For that matter, what other life choices are available to us?

I'm a parent who has tried to raise children--who are now mostly adults--without violence to their individuality, humanity, or personhood. When kids go off to school with a presumption that their individuality and values will be respected, they meet with a certain amount of surprise and disappointment. The contrast to the way they were raised makes them think, and the values they were taught tend to be re-affirmed. The trouble is, they still find that the class/slave society affords them no life options for the expression of these values, except perhaps in the personal life. They must still compete, they will still have to pee in a cup, and they will still have to go to work for "the man," if they hope to have a moderately successful--or at least "normal"--life.

We're raising our kids in anticipation of selling them into slavery when they come of age. The best we seem to be able to do is to groom them to bring a good price.

Where are the alternative lifestyles? What would it take to make alternative lifestyles a possibility?

It's my belief that it would take something on the order of a widespread, almost religious conversion. By this, I mean that lots of families would have to choose to reject the values of the larger society and seek economic independence in a form that they could offer to future generations.

The only idea that presents itself (to me) is the formation of intentional, land-based, self-sufficient communities.

If enough families were serious about this, it could be done. Groups of families could surely round up enough assets to establish themselves on the land.

You want to do this before your kids are so well advanced in school that they've decided that there is a career for them in business, law enforcement, or medicine, and that they can "make a difference." I fear that the only difference will be that they'll learn to relinquish their values and individuality, and learn to be servile and submissive, so that all their energies and abilities will be placed in the service of the society as it is now, and in the service of perpetuating it.

Fact is:

Humankink became supreme upon this planet by instinctual reproduction. Nothing will overcome this hardwired primary biological drive, except mass extinction.

Enjoy your day. :-)

What Io Q. Lellity wants to end is added to by scvile July 12th, 2007 8:37 am, to give a snapshot of what life is like in the world today.

My upbringing and me have clashed over this since the beginning. It led me to be oppositional defiant and it blocks my ability work with authority.

As scvile said so well, we are brought up in a class system of economical slavery so we raise our children "to bring a good price" or have a high value to the machine.

Which leads to what entelechy said,
The elites of the World cannot listen to our pleas… and tragically, there is no peaceful way to stop them. I wish there were, …
… and justify their emrgency powers to rule by decree and expand the war to include the whole World.

Well yea, that's what they are trying to do and there is a good chance they might succeed, but I believe in balance of nature as shown by history.

If people start downsizing and get out of debt by selling their excess tangible property to the bloated elite who think they can resell it; we won't buy it back. The value will normalize! (My theory!)How ever, until people get onboard we will all be dancing a tune to the machine.

The truth is rich people can't prosper without someone to do their work. When you try to force someone to work it don't work; history shows economic slavery to be the most efficient motivator.

The problem is the U.S. is trying to save the whole world economy from going bankrupt by buying into the debt-scheme that creates money. Every neo-con wants you to sign on to debt also because you signature allows them to manufacture money when you promise to repay.

Simple choices are the key to changing the way business is done. Until we the elite, live a sustainable footprint in self sufficient communities we are at the mercy of the machine just as much as the people it absolutely destroys.

scvile-I saved your post for my collection-well said

We are a long way from "it takes a community to raise a child".

I wish we were a more tribal and open society instead of a closed door two faced; control freaks.

We are an open community here; this is how it works!

"How refreshing that men are invited to play a constructive role instead of being shamed as perpetrators. And surprise! It works!"

AMEN to that! I think one problem the left has is that it puts too many people off with finger-pointing and such. We're not going to get people to come to our side by kicking them in the belly. It's why I get angry when I see people on the left trash Americans, whites, men, blue-collar people, rural folks, people who didn't get an education, etc.

I am a liberal, but I will tell you what the left at times DOES alienate a lot of people even when we are essentially on their side too.

Men have nothing to lose and everything to gain from standing with us. The right has absolutely nothing to offer most American men, white, black, Native American, poor, working, blue-collar, white-collar, young, old, middle-aged, urban hipster, punker, hip-hop national, headbanger (that would be me), what have you.

When women are empowered, imo men are also. Man need Woman and Woman needs Man. Let's not allow the elites to use and hurt one another.

A strong man protects, respects, and loves women. Only morally, mentally, and spiritually decrepit men to the opposite.

Men and women also need to learn to love and respect themselves.

Shakker-I've been told my so many men that women don't want me because I'm "too nice". I've debated this with people on dating forums. "Bad boys are where it's at." That's what I have been told. And you know what? I've decided that any woman who desires boorishness in men isn't someone I want to be with.

Great article btw. It's nice to see something uplifting and hopeful on here for a change.

iwarrior, I know what you are talking about! I think you hit the nail on the head with "what is attractive" to the opposite sex in our culture.

The woman look for security is a provider so they can raise a family. So guys put up a display like a bird of paradise to impress her. Now if you want to play the game you might stand a chance, but it's just a game no more honest than a neo-conservative. Those people are the ones fulfilling all the things they are supposed to do according to doctrine. Buy into credit cards and get a great big mortgage that will last them for the rest of their life, at least until the divorce.

It's all programmed into the American psyche by immersion into its society. Popularity! That's the name of the game. It's another class warfare thing; who can be the most popular [sellout], and then walk the walk after all the talk.

I'm glad a lot of us don't play that game and we have the ability to see through it. We don't live someone else's standard of a dream; we live life.

Back in my day cocaine dealers had all the pretty women, I doubt much has changed.

Ahh the American Dream!