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While Europeans Holiday, Americans Toil
If you're reading this while on vacation, great for you. If you're reading this at work, having just finished a vacation or a five-day weekend cobbled together around last week's celebration of Independence Day, I hope the time off was as spectacular as the fireworks.
If you won't get another day off work until December's holiday season, you're not alone. Americans and vacations just don't mix.
This may surprise those who have just spent hours stranded at airports or idling in a hot line for a ride at an amusement park. But a quarter of American workers get no paid vacation or paid holidays. And on average, those private-sector workers who do get paid time off are granted only nine vacation days and six paid holidays each year, according to government statistics analyzed by the Center for Economic and Policy Research.
The liberal-leaning think tank analyzed paid vacation and holiday leave policies among the U.S. and nations with comparably developed economies—the European Union, Canada, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. The predictable portrait is one of the United States as a nation of workaholics—a syndrome related less to the archetype of a striving executive than it is linked to government policy.
In the rest of the industrialized world, a month or more of paid vacation is typical, and often required. Many Americans know that. And there are can-you-top-this supplements to this surfeit of paid time off. Such as: In Austria, workers who labor at "heavy night work" get two or three extra days off. Also in Austria—as well as in Sweden and New Zealand—workers are actually paid at a higher rate when they're on vacation than when they're at work.
In France, workers get extra paid time off if they take some of their vacation days outside of the summer season. In Norway, those 60 and older get extra time off. And of course, your vacation could be ruined if you get sick while you're away. So Sweden guarantees that if a worker becomes sick while on leave, the days of the illness don't count against vacation time.
Stingy leave policies in the United States go hand and hand with weekly work hours that exceed those in many industrialized countries. And they parallel skimpy sick leave and family leave policies that give millions of Americans no effective safety net when illness or emergencies strike. Nearly half of private-sector workers—57 million people—have no paid sick days, according to Rep. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., a chief sponsor of a measure to require at least some sick days for employees who work more than 30 hours per week. The problem is particularly acute for low-wage workers, more than three-fourths of whom get no paid leave when they are ill.
In theory, all this hard work is supposed to spark a more robust economy that is, in turn, an engine of greater upward mobility than what is found in the supposedly coddled precincts of, say, the European Union. But lately, it hasn't. An ongoing, bipartisan study of intergenerational economic mobility conducted jointly by conservative and liberal-leaning researchers for the Pew Charitable Trusts has found the myth of superior American mobility to be—a myth.
Researchers for the Economic Mobility Project studied the relationship of adult children's incomes to those of their parents and found that the United States now lags behind France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway and Denmark in this measure of upward mobility. "There is little available evidence that the United States has more relative mobility than other advanced nations," the group reported in May. "If anything, the data seem to suggest the opposite."
Comparing the incomes of American men who were in their 30s in 2004 with males who were in their 30s in 1974, the researchers found that today's men actually earn about 12 percent less, after inflation, than their fathers' generation did. "There has been no progress at all for the youngest generation," the group reported. The American family stays afloat because its total income has been swelled by women's paychecks.
The sober statistics should lead toward saner economic policies. Europe, Canada and the rest of the industrialized world are doing just fine with guaranteed health insurance, pensions, maternity leave and sick time—not to mention a month at the beach. Here at home, nothing threatens the American dream so much as political disinclination to cast off old thinking and demand change for new and harsher economic times.
© 2007 TruthDig.com
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52 Comments so far
Show AllWhy did I have to be born in this revolting, deluded country?
I have been to Europe, and let me tell you sbrownn, the average Karl in Germany has a far higher standard of living than the average Joe in the US. There is no such thing as a trailer park over there, for starters.
Sweden has an infinitely higher standard of living to go along with their vacation time, living wage, universal healthcare and education, clean air and water.
And actually no, goose, I cannot currently emigrate to Scandinavia because to do so requires economic resources that I'm cheated out of so that a few people can jet around the world at their utmost whim and leisure.
You can't give the workers time off and money if you are going to maintain corporate officer living living standards at the level most American CEOs have come to expect. And since they make the decisions, guess what?
You can leave.
Just dont come to the UK, either. It's more annoying having your politicians insist on being Americas lapdog
This country is perfect for corporate sluts like a lot of posters on this forum.
The generous vacations in other countries come at the expense of a lower standard of living and being more productive while at work. Americans want to have their cake and eat it; they want more vacation for the same pay and productivity. If you want more vacation then be willing to live the living standard of the people in the countries where they get more.
Este asunto es tan importante a mà que escogà expresar mis vistas en este sujeto en el idioma que la mayorÃa de Los Americanos desprecian para frotar su cara esta cruda verdad. A fin de cuentas, español es un idioma feo a muchos Americanos como muchos se sienten amenazado por personas que hablan en español. ¿Por qué? Yo no tengo la menor idea. Español es un idioma hermoso. Este idioma no está sucio ni feo. El hecho que Americanos no están dispuestos a aprender español, el segundo la mayorÃa de los lenguajes comúnes en USA evidentemente, son puestas bajo el mandato ilustra en USA que los Americanos su acentúa su ignorancia.
Debe ser horrible es un Americano en este dÃa en la edad. ¿Por qué aceept qué sucede? Su nación es destruida de DENTRO DE no por al qaeda. Es su Gobierno que duele usted como los ciudandos y sus elecciones. Usted, como Americanos, no entienden porque usted cree que su Gobierno dice la verdad a usted. Es la acción correcta para todos Americanos de creer a polÃticos porque ellos son personas que respresent sus pensamientos y los sentimientos. El Gobierno de USA sólo quiere doler sus personas. La máxima prioridad de su nación por personas de su Gobierno - dolerle en todos los aspectos imaginable. Nunca crea nada del contrario. Su Gobierno quiere hacer enojado como muchas personas a través del mundo como posible promover terorist ataca o doméstico o extranjero.
Well... if you measure "standard of living" by health, longevity, low childhood mortality, educational opportunity, a clean environment, the promise of a secure retirement... and TIME OFF TO ENJOY THESE THINGS, then Americans don't have a higher standard of living at all.
If you measure SOL by the width of our flat-screen TV's our SUVs and our waistlines, then we Americans must be the happiest people on earth.
lo Q, you can always go to Canada.
The rest of you have OPTIONS. You can teach. Long hours, but 13 weeks (for me, at least) of vacation a year. You can negotiate a job share. You can work you @ss of on some kind of seasonal employment like income tax preparation and surf the rest of the year. All of these require trade offs, you standard of living may not let you buy a new Lexus every 2 years, and you may not get to live in a McMansion, but you do have the choice. Europeans do not have a choice. If a Frenchman wants to work his but off and get rich, his option is to move to New York or London.
Depressing. I have family in Germany, and I can tell you this: vacations make people happier and healthier, it really works that way. People take the time to explore, to deepen family relations, they learn new skills or sports during vacation, they use the time to recuperate from stress at work or at home, and it improves their health. Maybe that's why 'going postal' is a US phenomenon.
And because paid vacations are the law, the financial burden is spread out among all employers. Remember, we'll die some day and it'll be over. (And then your relatives have to sacrifice their vacation days - if they have any, one quarter does not! - to travel to a funeral.
Go somewhere else Lo. If you really want to leave then go. I have lived in Europe (Socialist Europe and Democratic Europe), Africa and New Zealand. All have good points but with all our problems, the US is the place to be. If you really want to move, think about Canada or Mexico. You don't need to be rich to move.
If you want to whine about your resources that have been cheated from you, then go on but I won't respect you. You have the ability to make a difference in your own life and the world and if you don't want to do that then STFU.
What exactly do you mean by "I have lived in Europe (Socialist Europe and Democratic Europe)."? The European nations I feel are superior are run by the social democratic party; not with a socialist OR democratic government. Such a duality is really passe. Otherwise, no, I'm not going to stop talking about how disgusting the misplacement of resources in this country is, because regardless of how it is or isn't affecting me, it is affecting other people and creating all sorts of ugliness, which I deplore.
"You have the ability to make a difference in your own life and the world and if you don't want to do that then STFU."
I'm not going to stop talking regardless, but actually, no; people in unfair market, capitalist sell-out societies like ours are held down by the conditions they were born in, and by the absence of conditions which can help them move beyond that. So no, the ability to make a difference is determinist and not universal. But the point is that people shouldn't have to either have the tenacity to make it or die in the streets; we should have programs that ensures everyone can make it, everyone can prosper and have a good way of life. It is when people are freed from having to constantly worry about survival or the american delusion that true creativity and innovation can happen. That is the point of this website and this article, and if you don't agree with that it is you who should shut up.
http://www.dreamingearth.net
Quark: "Depressing. I have family in Germany, and I can tell you this: vacations make people happier and healthier, it really works that way."
I have lived in Germany among Germans, as well as with Dutch people, and really must agree. There's a lot more stress in the States and I think our overwork-underpay system (excluding that few percent who live like gods) has a great deal to do with it. Of course there are flaws in every system, but we Yankees could stand to learn A LOT about compassion, real equality, and the benefit of a good rest from our cousins over the pond. However, moving abroad seems like a juvenile thought. If this is your country, improve it ...otherwise you really better start cramming on your Swedish and get ready for a job as a cabby in Stockholm.
Sir Melvin Cleophus, PLEASE take a basic Spanish grammar course. If that confabulated gobbledygook IS Spanish, that is. Sheesh. You're embarrassing yourself, man.
lo Q, you ought to sit back and reassess. Is it really our "capitalist sell out society" that is holding you down. Take into account that this society has produced the richest standard of living in world history, money is practically there for the asking if you have the iniative to reach out and grab it. If money is your priority, of course. Or is it your own lack of motivation, courage or competence that is holding you back?
To the "Love it or leave it" posters:
What I think most people have as a foundation to their criticisms of the situation in the US is there has been enough wealth here to make things better for most people. In an unprecendented era of profits for a few many are slipping further into a declining lifestyle. And when the next depression arrives perhaps including you or your relatives will you naysayers still proclaim "whiners"?
"If you measure SOL by the width of our flat-screen TV's our SUVs and our waistlines, then we Americans must be the happiest people on earth."
Ha !!!!! oh yes .. and please add Paris and Britney to this potboiler and mix it up !!
As for you goose ... without your respect life is not worth living .. ill go away now and work my a~!@ off for your boss ... at least that way ill be worthy of your respect !!
There is nothing more pathetic than a corporate slut. we all end up working for corporations in some form but buying into this 'good corporate citizen' slave mentality is exactly what the bosses want you to do so they can squeeze more out of you and enjoy the benefits, while you bend over willingly. I suppose you justify your willingness to 'bend over' by asking others who are not so willing to 'go away' ?!! What a loser ....
The stats are misleading. The reason such a large percentage of Americans do not receive paid sick/vacation days is because they're doing menial service labor, usually employed less than a year in said menial job.
Although we're constantly told our "productivity" is way higher than everyone else's, seeing as how we really do not manufacture anything anymore, what does that mean? We serve burgers faster than ever? We deliver pizzas in 28 minutes now? We produce more bombs faster? How can "productivity" be "rising" if we're not producing anything? Other than massive debt and worldwide misery and catastrophic climate destruction, that is...
It's a myth. Look around - the rest of the world is producing way more stuff than we are.
"The reason such a large percentage of Americans do not receive paid sick/vacation days is because they're doing menial service labor, usually employed less than a year in said menial job."
In the European countries in question, EVERYONE gets paid vacation and sick days, including the poor who don't have great jobs; that is the point. The type of employment doesn't justify anything; the statistics are accurate, and the american trend is disgusting.
"The stats are misleading. The reason such a large percentage of Americans do not receive paid sick/vacation days is because they're doing menial service labor, usually employed less than a year in said menial job."
My first post-degree job was for a company who's owner had a black chauffeur/bodyguard to drive his Bentley for him. My position was important enough that I was designing the products that the company made. And yet here is the breakdown for paid days off: No days off for the first five years. Then we would get five days off. After working there for ten years we would be granted ten paid days off per year. No paid sick days ever. Sick days would count toward vacation days, but of course only after five years of employment.
Lack of paid vacation is a reality for positions other than menial labor. No workee - no payee.
Actually, in Europe, NOT everyone gets paid holidays. The 10% or so of the general population and 25% youth/minority population who are UNEMPLOYED because of rigid labor laws get nothing. But, if they could find jobs, surely they would be good jobs.
Who are you, powerslave? A junior executive at phillip morris? But yes, you really proved my entire point wrong by saying that people who were unemployed didn't get paid holidays. Since you really need a vacation from not working. But I'm supposed to be impressed by your skewed statistics despite the fact that I'm already well read on the subject and have seen them refuted elsewhere. When you are young and don't have to pay for college, you don't really need a job; there is even a student pittance in Denmark, at least, to prevent young students from needing jobs, so they aren't really "unemployed" at all anymore than four years olds are from those "rigid child labor laws."
Self-gooser,
If you really have lived in any Western European country and think they have a lower standard of living, you're either kidding or a hopeless dumbass.
Either way, you're good for a laugh, though, hope you stick around.
The only people in the States who have a "better standard of living" than most folks in Western Europe are multi-millionaires. Most others in the States who think they're well-off are living in a credit card-induced hallucination.
And, since you other US neo-Fascists have forgotten, one of the unique things we ~do~ enjoy is a right to criticize our own country without being punished _ or told to leave.
Most folks who read this site are so angry, and so critical, because they love their country. Meaning their people. All of their people, not just the ones who agree with them. You will be grateful for that fact when we're back in power.
So you're quite welcome to blather away.
loQ, if my stats are wrong, please educate me. Is unemployment LOWER in Europe? Are all the young minorities sitting around doing nothing in the Banlieus really disguised college students.
Zell, you do NOT enjoy a right to criticize your country without being told to leave. Or, to put it in a broader perspective, you do not enjoy the right to criticize without being criticized back by those who disagree with you.
Incidentally, you ARE back in power, and we are not greatful. That is why your "progressive" congress enjoys even lower approval than the idiot president.
From personal experience in Denmark workers are provided with 66 paid sick days. In Germany there is a mandatory 6 weeks paid vacation, the typical Spanish worker receives 13 months pay and there are more than a few who receive 14 months pay. Not only do Spanish workers get a month off during the summer they receive their regular pay PLUS vacation pay. Quite different than the way it works here.
Approximately 17 years ago a co-worker was forced to move back to Norway where he would be guaranteed health care and a place to live. Jan was injured playing soccer and therefore not covered by State Industrial insurance and he had reached the point where he could no longer work. Too young to retire on Social Security and not yet vested in the company pension plan Jan had little alternative. I recall asking him about the division between rich and poor in Norway and he said, "we learned along time ago that it takes the same level of income for the street sweeper to support his family as it does for the doctor, dentist and engineer so there isn't much of an income gap."
Yes, there is alot we could learn from our European cousins if we were only willing.
Methinks powerslave keeps forgetting his password - this is his third incarnation in as many weeks...
Anyone who thinks this country can't be criticized and ultimately improved deserves to have everyone else leave at his whim so he can live out his days as the only real American left.
Who exactly thinks this country can't be criticized? Criticize away, and propose something better. More power to you. But, please do not whine about how unlucky you were to be born here. Because you do NOT have to stay if that is how you feel.
Considering that a small minority (10%) actually controls everything and that small minority actually has a better standard of living than the remaining 90% .. its only logical that the small minority should leave and find some haven (far away island) that wont bother them with such trivialities like wage hikes and democracy and such. Also they can take their 'slaves' with them and dont let that friggin door slam on ur ass ...
They won't gyptian. I guess you'll just have to stay here and whine about it. Or propose something better...
Actually powerslave i dont need to propose anything better ... i just have to listen to your pearls of wisdom to get me through the day. Keep it coming slave ...
Stilba,
Chances are that you won't get any better? First off, why do we need to get better? 80grand a year is a very comfortable life. I never understand the constant need for improvement. Second, my salary hit 70 grand/year when I was 35, about 20 years ahead of my father. So I see no sign of things slowing down. My father pushed me to achieve things that he never did, like diplomas from both high school and college.
Any why is having a strong dollar so important? The British Pound is always very high and it is hard to see how that makes Britian any more important.
"societies like ours are held down by the conditions they were born in, and by the absence of conditions which can help them move beyond that."
The above is a very common liberal or progressive complaint. My father, born to two parents who never went to high school, who himself is a high school drop out, earns $80,000/year. Not super rich, but far far more than his parents ever did. Clearly, you can advance yourself in American society.
powerslave:
I will propose something better.May the elites in the US-most of whom proclaim to be Christians-start living like same. From politicians to CEOs to televangelists Christianity has been highjacked to serve cruel greedy interests. The incessant trumpeting of selfish living has even made sharing seem to be a sign of wimpishness.Or do you claim that caring for others is as highly valued as say 40 years ago?
American workers are losing ground rapidly across the board and heaven help you if you become disabled-you will be denied delayed and if you don't die be sentenced to a life of penury on a paltry pension.Would you like to ask what that feels like? Fire away.These things don't happen in Europe and if this doesn't matter to you-sorry for your lack of humanity.
Right you are, RMouse. I do better than either parent, though to get there I've earned debts that are astronomical compared to anything they ever had. You can get ahead in America, but the problem is, the chances that you won't are getting better. Powerslave asks for a solution. Too simple. Take the best ideas from other countries and make them our own and improve on them. That's the American way, after all. But before that, we need a VERY different brood of leaders. And before that, we need big money out of politics. How to get there, I haven't a clue. But something had better change soon. Did you see today that the Euro is 1.38 to the dollar now? Less than a decade ago, my European friends envied my all-powerful dollar. How quickly things have changed.
Currencies go up, they go down. Right now the Canadian dollar is worth 95 cents, which is even more incredible, to me, than the Euro. It would not suprise me if it goes to parity soon, which it has not done in my lifetime. Canadian business is screaming bloody murder, too, because they are finding that they cannot export. So, unless you are a tourist, a strong dollar is not that big of a deal. A genuinely WEAK dollar is, and that is what we have to worry about.
Stilba suggests picking the best ideas of other countries. Good point. The idea is, though, to avoid picking DUMB ideas. European worker protection laws, which make it impossible to fire, and nearly impossible to have a second job, if you want one, do not seem like something we should emulate. Unless we want European unemployment rates. European family leave policies are not there for altruistic reasons, they are a dying continent's last ditch effort to get its citizens to start making babies. (An effort that is failing). We do not have that problem, Americans reproduce.
Klever, I am not sure what "Christianity" (a very big tent) has to do with this discussion, other than as a way for you to trumpet your dislike for them. Don't worry, they will pray for you anyway. Your comment "even made sharing seem to be a sign of wimpishness" really does not make sense. You should compare charitable contributions/participation in benevolent activities between Americans and Europeans (or between Red states and Blue states, for that matter). We give far more time and money helping our fellow man than the Europeans do. I can vouch for this firsthand, my National Guard unit got to spend a nice vacation in New Orleans in September of 2005, and the number of Americans (and Canadians) who just showed up to help was unbelievable.
"love it or leave" is a standard american right wing uneducated response when they have no argument, and don't know the facts. European countries have a far better standard of living than the US, primarily due to the excellent social programs and substantial time off from work. There is more money in the US, but less happiness. Whenever I get off the plane after a trip abroad, I feel very depressed at being back in the USSR of A! Americans are so miserably unhappy, compared to the rest of the world, despite all the "stuff" they have. Must be the debt, eh? They don't own anything...the bank does.
This is how it is at my job.
It takes 90 days to get health coverage.
You get one week of vacation time after one year. After two years you get two. It takes seven years to get three. You have to use at least one week all at once.
After one year, you also get two personal days which you can break up into two-hour increments.
There are no sick days. If you get sick and absolutely cannot work, you use personal time. After those two days are up, it cuts into your vacation time. If you are all out of time, you can take time off without pay.
But if you miss more than two days w/o pay in a year, you get fired. After the second day w/o pay, you get a call from the owner of the company, telling you beratingly that if you miss one more day you're gone.
I've witnessed people get fired simply because they ran out of time. They scheduled their vacation time and used their personal time. They went on trips or just took days off. They even rationed them out, knowing they'd get replenished with the start of the new calendar year (they don't roll over, use 'em or lose 'em). But come December, they got sick or hurt or their dad died. So they called off. And when they missed three days, they were let go. When asked how the company could be so callous, our big cheese responded "Well, consider this a lesson in life. Rethink the way you do things and how you and your family live your lives. Sensible people rarely fall ill or injure themselves."
It hasn't happened to me yet. I've never missed a day. I've also gotten and worked sick more times in the three years I've worked there than in any other time in my life. Twice I've gone to the ER right after work, and showed up the next day. I'm just getting over a bug in fact.
No one wants to call-off when they are ill because of how the company operates. So everyone shows up when they have the flu or whatever, and everyone else gets sick. I take vitamins, garlic pills, and wash my hands. But it isn't enough.
We had a guy recently that hadn't been there long enough to earn personal time. So when his mom died he took two days off and didn't get paid for him. The guys ended up taking up a collection for him. They do that for a lot of people. There was one gal in particular who had terminal cancer. The employees held a raffle for her instead since the idea of giving her a paycheck while dying wasn't kosher with the big cheese.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, go to school, find a better job, move to France if ya don't like it, blah, blah, blah.
I for one am not leaving. I expect better of America, a nation that is richer than all and claims to surpass others in terms of compassion and justice. If having immigrants desert Mexico benefits that country's elites, then why should I as a discontented citizen and worker leave the USA?
Yes people should whine. Whining is good. But they also need to take some sort of action. They need to VOTE also. We could turn the tables on all of those in power with the push of a button. No blood needs to be shed. No cars need to be set on fire. And everyone would benefit as a truly better society would follow.
Powerslave, glad you at least know what you are, as reflected by your handle.
> Zell, you do NOT enjoy a right to criticize your country > without being told to leave
Yes, I absolutley do, under the First Amendment. It's the one that comes just before the one about guns. And I've lived and worked in several countries where people don't have that right to critize their country. Their governments really like folks like you.
> Or, to put it in a broader perspective, you do not enjoy > the right to criticize without being criticized back by
> those who disagree with you
Criticize me or my views all you want. That has nothing to do with that "love it or leave it" crap _ which is just an extension of the mentality that brought us "You're either with us or with the terrorists."
Telling another American to leave the country because you disagree with him or her is not "criticism" _ which implies constructive discourse. Telling another American to leave, due to his or her political views, is a modern extension of the WWII Nazi mentality.
Telling another American to leave is a veiled threat _ one I'm ready to fight, by the way. Hope you're up to that, because that day may come.
> Incidentally, you ARE back in power
No, we're not. You live in a dictatorship. Bush and his regime have enough control over the electoral system and courts to remain in firm control. They use "signing statements," "executive authority" and outright crime to subvert whatever checks on them that the American people tried to vote in. And that fact is due to people like you, who have happily turned in your liberty for security _ and fake security at that.
> and we are not greatful. That is why your "progressive"
> congress enjoys even lower approval than the idiot
> president
At least you and I, my fellow American, can agree that Congress deserves less approval. They're cowards. And that Bush is an idiot. But one thing _ I'm not hiding behind the title "progressive."
I'm a LIBERAL.
Zell sez, "Powerslave, glad you at least know what you are, as reflected by your handle."
Into the Abyss I'll fall - the eye of Horus
Into the eyes of the night - watching me go
Green is the cat's eye that glows -
In this Temple
Enter the risen Osiris - risen again.
[Chorus:]
Tell me why I had to be a Powerslave
I don't wanna die, I'm a God,
Why can't I live on?
When the Life Giver dies,
All around is laid waste,
And in my last hour,
I'm a Slave to the Power of Death.
When I was living this lie - Fear was my Game
People would worship and fall -
Drop to their knees.
So bring me the blood and
Red wine for the one to succeed me,
For he is a man and a God -
And He will die too.
[Chorus:]
Now I am cold but a ghost lives in my veins,
Silent the terror that reigned -
Marbled in stone
A Shell of a man God preserved -
From thousand ages,
But open the gates of my hell -
I'll strike from the grave
[Chorus:]
Tell me why I had to be a Powerslave
I don't wanna die, I'm a God,
Why can't I live on?
When the Life Giver dies,
All around is laid waste,
And in my last hour,
I'm a Slave to the Power of Death.
Slave to the Power of Death...
Slave to the Power of Death...
"I warrior, sounds like you work for Adolf Hitler…I'd tell him to take a hike and work somewhere else."
davepepper- Would you believe that my employer is a jew? Yeah. He discriminates against blacks too.
I am trying to find another job. It's going to be tough, especially with my father in the hospital and all.
When I was in college my roomate was from Norway. He used to tell me about the free paid vacations, health care, subsidized housing,ect. Then he mentioned that his Dad was in the 94% tax bracket. He said that his father emigrated to the U.S. as soon as he could save up enough money out of his 6% to get here.
His dad told me that, as hard as it was to leave, he wanted to live in a country where hard work was rewarded.
As a small business owner, I would like to know how I am supposed to pay for 6 week vacations for my employees. I already provide them with health, vacation, and pension benefits. A requirement to provide them with an additional month paid vacation would require me to close the business and fire my 12 employees. I don't see where that would benefit anyone.
Wow, only employees of Hitler (?) know where my nickanme came from. Liberal Zell, I do not recall telling you to leave. I suggested that lo Q should do so, because he obviously does not like it here. But, I could. Or you could tell me the same thing. It is known as freedom of speech. If you make comments someone else thinks are stupid, expect to get zapped back. As I do. Or anyone should.
Sigma, the people telling you how to run your business HAVE NOT run businesses. They think you just go outside and have one of your peons shake the money tree, and presto, 6 weeks paid vacation, free.
iwarrior, employers like yours are morons. I doubt you have any loyalty to your company, nor should you. Screw him off and find something better.
Ahem... pay attention folks. Our hospital was just purchased by a physician who is buying up others also. The first thing he did was take away all of the sick time. One had saved 1,000 hours - gone now. He said "no" more sick time...another 800 hours - just in case. He said you can get disability....who works in hospital folks?? Mostly women. The next thing he did was outsource the medical transcription department to India...now women on unemployement....quality control gone.
What's with this love it or leave it crap? We have a right to demand change in the system that we do not like and we do not need to move to Europe for that. Lets stop with the Bush-type "with us or with them" speech.
As far Europe being superior to us when it comes to social conditions, IT DEFINITELY IS! Europeans have a much progressive outlook towards their society and they by far do not believe in the dog-eat-dog world that Americans love. Many mentioned Norway which has the least disparity amongst the rich and poor. Many European countries have close to $10/hr minimum wage and free health.
Coming back to productivity - Its been drilled into the American psyche that we do not need vacation and if we do then we're plain lazy. I had a lunch conversation with my co-workers who were blissfully unaware of the work policies around the world where I mentioned 4+ weeks of paid vacation. A lady who had been with our company for 6 years and received 3 weeks vacation (my co is one of the better ones) wondered "why we need so much vacation?" Productivity is related to a certain exten to profits but in the US workers barely get to see even a part of those profits.
So the lopsided conservative argument is - Don't be lazy and work hard for your company. When the company makes profits, the CEO's will buy their mansions and private planes while you have to try to figure out how you're going to go through the holiday season expenses. If the latter applies to you, maybe you didn't work hard enough!
Hey RMouse, I think we really are on the same page. It seems you misunderstood/misread what I wrote: "You can get ahead in America, but the problem is, the chances that you won't are getting better. "
I agree that anybody making $80,000 ought to be able to feel rather satisfied. The only reason you need more is if you want to buy a house in California (!) My point was that it's getting harder for more people to get to a point of basic comfort, where society's opportunities are actually available. It's like we're building a caste system in this country. I know married couples with children that make less together (both working) than I make by myself. There's something very wrong about that. Greed isn't as bad as lack of an even minimal equal playing field, but then greed seems to be the fuel of that force of inequity. When you see how it is done in European countries and, as said above, how there are no things like trailer parks, our system looks very poor.
Spartanladkenny, NOTHING is free. Even health care. Europeans just pay for it differently (through higher taxes) than we do.
People who WANT to work less usually can, if they are willing to deal with the conmensurate loss of income. The comment of "why (do) we need so much vacation?" is a cultural thing, I think, unique to Anglo-Saxon culture. We work a lot, and like it (at least a lot of us do) This goes all the way back to the Puritans. The fact that Europeans have more liberal policies than we do is cultural, they do not like to work as much. More power to them. But, to those who are workaholics, more power to you, too.
Who your ancestors are does not really matter, it matters more the culture you were brought up in. My ancestors were, at least some of them, puritans, and I want no part of that lifestyle.
Your average European (at least those lucky enough to have full time work) works less than an American, earns less, and is taxed more. In exchange he gets lots of vacation, early retirement, and no out of pocket expenses (note I did NOT say free) for healthcare. Unfortunately, for him,
demographics simply will not support the early retirement much longer.
The problem I have with this, is that he has no choice in the matter. I, an American, can do very flexible things that are simply unimaginable in Europe. It is very easy to go self-employed, and millions of us do. Very few do so in Europe. I can work two full time jobs for half a year if I want to and then go surf the other half. I can work seasonal part time jobs. A European really cannot do this; labor laws make it hard enough to just find ONE job, forget about two, and a second part time job, if such a thing existed would be taxed at who knows what insane marginal tax rate that it would be pointless.
In other words, using a bit of ingenuity, I can live like a European, if I want to (and if I don't mind a European standard of living; smaller house, only one car, less "toys".) A European, if he wants to live like an American basically has to come to America.
We have choice, they do not.
Someone mentioned there are no trailer parks in Europe. I assume they haven't been among travellers in the UK all in their caravans. I personally would prefer to live in a trailer park than in a French Banlieu full of thugs anyway.
Powerslave: "We work a lot, and like it (at least a lot of us do) This goes all the way back to the Puritans."
Well, as my ancestors are Scandanavians and Germans (not Puritans), that explains my predetermined desire for a higher standard of living!
"iwarrior, employers like yours are morons. I doubt you have any loyalty to your company, nor should you. Screw him off and find something better."
I'm trying to do that. :) I'll likely have to take a cut in pay though, and that's going to hurt, especially if my father can't return to work.
It's not that easy to just find another job. I was unemployed for 18 months before I started working there. My previous employer was a hospital. I lost my job after it was bought out by a larger health system.
I could write a book about the place I currently work for. A thoroughly evil company.