vern, excellent observations. I think of Sinclair Lewis' story "It Can't Happen Here". Yes it can. It can happen anywhere when people stop paying attention.

sign up now: http://www.sheehanforcongress.us

If there was only a way to continue to discuss subjects before they drop off the screen, because I have been watching the almost surreal attacks on Sheehan from the anti-war ranks and it needs to be addressed.

Two things-

Who cares when she first spoke out? People actually are keeping score of who was there first? Jesus, that is small-minded. Talk about attention whores. It was who spoke out that mattered.
Sheehan is interesting because her personal evolvment is so public, but I think it just may be more calculated and subtle than that. She is a natural leader and politician and understands the dynamics. Individuals have a way of rising out of nowhere in answer to the call of their times. Thomas Paine was a corset-maker for crying out loud.

Which leads me to---Isn't it amazing how so many internalize the messages of class rank and staying within the understood restrictions. How dare Cindy think she can participate! Totally unconsciously people accept that government is about professional ruling elite politicians-that are somehow better equipted and more qualified than the rest of us even when they've been proven to be criminally incompetent. So much for gov of by and for the people. So, it is okay for bugman DeLay or Kaye Bailey Hutchinson or Ted Stevens or Shwartzenegger or Jesse Ventura or Trent Lott, but who the hell does Cindy Sheehan think she is?
Unbelievable.
And another thing that galls me--the way some have internalized Right-wing attempts to marginalize the truth tellers by framing them as fringe wackos when they speak for the majority. Recently I have read Sheehan referred to as a "wacko".
You know, the Right is fighting for their life--in attempts to steer the debate and control perceptions. They fear what will happen when people rise up with the truth. They must control and minimize--and keep people separated, distracted and isolated. The agenda is obvious enough--it is the suckers that get drawn in and fall for it that is the weight dragging us under.

Nancy Pelosi is just another elitist, Bush azz kisser and "yes" (wo)man. Nancy seems to be pretty fond of the Chimp. I hope, for the country's sake, that Cindy Sheehan displaces her. We don't need any more unnecessary wars.

talk2habermas;
Ah you are so smart. So smart you think you are smarter than anyone else: you think they have the same facts you do, so they must be dumb to not draw the same conclusions. Think again. Most people in the US do not have the facts you do. Yes, these facts are available free on the internet, all it takes is time and a little expertise. In this life we lead, not many have that much disposable time. Our time off from work usually is recovery and only recovery.
Worse still is the disincentive on political participation. So, you know a few facts, you don't trust the government. You are alone, and disempowered. In a world of opportunity choices, people choose what makes sense to them. They aren't stupid, they are the product of the time where they were born.

Have some compassion for where people come from and you will have a much easier time changing the world.

As for Cindy: she's learning. She's come from being a mom that might have believed what she saw on the evening news to challenging a sacred cow of US politics. She's learned already what so many Kucinich voters have failed to learn: working within the Democratic Party is a dead-end.

So here's a history lesson for the Kucinich people:
Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition was about 20 years ago. It isn't the sort of thing that makes it into history books. Jesse's campaign in 1988 was powerful: it connected to social movements, and took up the issues of unions, people of color, solidarity activists. It drew crowds and gathered people together. Despite overwhelming opposition from the Democratic Party establishment, it got an amazing 29% of the Democratic Party primary vote.

Guess what the Rainbow Coalition got for all its hard work?
Zilch.

The Democratic Party got a lot of votes though. That's all that can be achieved when you work within the Democratic Party - votes for people like Kerry.
After Jackson's campaign the Democratic Leadership Council got organized so that they would never be challenged in that way again.

Kucinich is doing a disservice to the causes he proclaims by keeping progressives within the Democratic Party.

What does this have to do with Sheehan?
She's realized you can't reform the two party system from within. Like a broken car, you have to get out and push!

GO CINDY!

The only reason I wouldn't want Cindy to run against Pelosi is I'd love a Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney presidential ticket - Cynthia and Cindy 08'.

"There is no question that if Sheehan runs, Pelosi loses her seat in Congress.

Here's why:

Even if Sheehan lost to Pelosi, Pelosi would be guaranteed to lose her seat in Congress if Sheehan ran. This is because she would not have enough votes to beat the Republican challenger for her seat in Congress."

The Republican candidate got 11% in Pelosi's district last time around. It doesn't matter how you spilt the other 89% between Sheehan and Pelosi. One of them will win, not the Repubican.

well nodupe first i would like to thank you, even if it is a day late, for agreeing with the argument i was making. however i find the arguments that you make in response to be either assumptions with little basis, purely illogical, or simple ridicules personal attacks.

you claim cindy is "intelligent enough to learn from her mistakes." and because of this "She is on her way to accomplish great deeds all alone."

a.) how do you know this is true?
b.) how does this make any sense if she's running for political office? doesn't she need votes? and aren't those who voted for her a part of the movement, thus making her their representative?
c.) perhaps she is. i hope you're right.

then you continue with this gem, " How much have you accomplished for this nation with your tremendous knowledge of political history? Do you at least have the courage to join her right now or contribute somehow to her cause which The Noble Cause? If not just shut up and leave her alone. No one who quotes from Noam Chomsky can be trusted after all."

so if i don't join HER cause i must shut up?

well the peace movement existed back when cindy sheehan raised her son casey and forgot to mention the immorallity of war, something my mom taught me. and the peace movement existed before this war even started and yes i have protested and i have challenged military recriuters on my college campus to debates. i was even called a jerk by one who was then asked to leave the campus for disrespecting members of the student body. and he has not returned since. obviuoslly i am in college additionally i am on the debate team and have competed at the national level. i have won debates, in front of economics majors, on the grouds that the us government is a terrorist organiztion for the way it treats enemy combatants and american civilians in the war on terror. while this might not be much it is what i can do in my community on a personal level. something i was doing before cindy showed up, resigned and returned and it is some thing i will continue to do.

if I quote the most quoted and influential scholar of our time i shouldn't be trusted?

to this i respond:
those who are unable to make decent arguments, resort to personal attacks, and logical abstractions should not be trusted.

Cindy running as an independant will pull enough to at least keep Perlosi from holding her job but then she gives us the liar and thief we don't know, we don't need another R in the lineup to weaken any chance of an override of this heartless greedy gang;I agree with her though that the D's in the lineup stand for disappointing{except for Dennis}. But follow your heart Cindy; this Vietnam Vet,s heart break's with everyone's child that George has killed in his honor. As helpless as I feel I'll send my few dollar's to anyone who does anything to end this war

Concur with RichM. No argument about the Democratic apologetic so forceful these days by those still in denial.

Good for Cindy; it is time to start holding to account the do nothing status quo Dems. Let Pelosi be the first to get her walking papers and find herself working for a living besides taking our money under false pretense.

As I just posted to another Sheehan post here:
---------------------------------------------
But, dear God, please get past the feel good Lesser-Evilism that has been the undoing of liberals for a great many years.
————————————————
Fixed the typo.

Politics, like religion, is faith-based. So I try not to think too harshly of all the pearl-clutching, process-wonk, "pragmatic" True Believers who swoop down like hawks into blogs to scold, lecture, excoriate, and otherwise condescend to set the rest of us straight on how politics "really works".

I remember noticing this distinct "type" of commenter during the 2000 presidential fiasco, especially one life-long Democrat who snarled that politics wasn't some feel-good "Frank Capra movie"! It wasn't about emotional attachments, touchy-feely crap, etc. It was about the numbers, the money, the votes, the MECHANICS! Moreover, it's a game for PROFESSIONALS; all ordinary citizens are good for is paying the freight and falling in line with party organizers to ensure that ELECTABLE candidates are groomed, supported, and elected.

These experts aren't offering SUGGESTIONS– they're TELLING us that we are spoiled and ignorant children who need to get a clue! I noticed that the insufferable Joan Walsh @ Salon also stooped to deplore Cindy's "wrong move". She doesn't get Cindy either.

So here's my clue: kiss my ass. Go Cindy. Not a very sophisticated response, perhaps. But all of you self-righteous, angry, disgusted grown-ups created the status quo of Republican-Lites instead of an opposition party, and all of your sensible, disciplined, no-nonsense lectures portend more of the same. I can't imagine wayward folk like myself being mesmerized by your Pied Piper tune, any more than you can tolerate people smiling at the sound of Cindy's admittedly uneven but compelling song.

Siouxrose, RichM, Vern, these are wonderful posts you have written. There have been many other good posts on this thread as well. It's a treat to be in such good company.

Kathy

to IRIQUOIS227: While it may be true that Sheehan's son was just plain dumb for being in the military and got whacked, I wish to inform you that your ass could get whacked any day by those in power, too. What do you think those people were doing on 9-11--going to work, getting on a plane--all "stupid" acts, I suppose. And yet, NORAD stood down, buildings that were made to withstand straight-on jet hits came tumbling down in their own footprints, building #7 which had only two small fires and no real structural damag fell in its own footprint) ,and the public drinks koolaid and buys what this murderous administration claims happened on 9-11. When they get ready to terrorize the American people, they don't care how many they kill. So watch your ass as long as this bunch is in power. You could be in a subway station like the folks in London on 7/7. Yes, these were inside jobs--so while you're looking down your nose at the stupid kids in Iraq, you better keep one eye on your own ass--it might be blown out of here at any time. We're all in this together. You can drink your koolaid and side with the murderers in the government--but at least Sheehan is speaking out and trying to do something. What have you done lately to stop this murderous bunch???? Go Cindy Go!!!!

mfskinner, you miss the point. Cindy sees people in power, who are supposed to serve the people, doing the opposite, acting like THEY are the deciders.

The point that was made that Nancy nullified the Constitution when she declared "impeachment off the table" was well made. The Constitution gave Congress a leash to put on the President with the power of the purse, the power to declare war, and impeachment. And Congress has given all of those right back to him. Now we have a President off the leash, and he's running rampant through our civil liberties, and threatening to start WWIII. As Speaker of the house, it's Nancy's job to pick up that leash and pull him up short. For whatever reason she's chosen not to do that. Various reasons have been proposed, although I suspect it's just political. She's running out the clock to make the Republicans look as bad as possible for the 2008 election, playing it close to the chest on the occupation of Iraq so that Rove can't blame the Democrats for "losing the war". It's cynical ploy because so many people are dying.

For Cindy, every death is another stab in her heart. Having realized that her son died unnecessarily, she has dedicated her life to trying to prevent any more unnecessary deaths, and I must say, she is showing herself to be extremely resourceful at that effort. I'm just so sorry that she's having to endure so much CRAP from ignorant, cowardly or predatory people. I realize there is no way to avoid that price she has to pay, but she is a hero, willing to do the right thing even while misguided fools are throwing offal at her. This is like a Henrik Ibsen play, Enemy of the People.

Cindy will go down in history as The Mouse That Roared.

Cindy speaks out for us and against what is morally reprehensible. And yeah, she is good at it. Michael Moore makes films that speak to our issues, our lives--and he is ripped apart. Ralph Nader has done more to challenge corporate domination of our culture and body politic and he is despised. These brave souls speak truth to power and people jump on the bandwagion trashing THEM? Now, think, fool, who does it benefit to have you turn against those who work and speak for you and against criminal special interests destroying this country and the world with their ongoing wars in quest of profits?
What the hell is wrong with people attacking Sheehan? Yowling about Bush and the Republicans and wildly defending the Democrats who have enabled them every step of the way. What a scam--what an easy way to pull the wool over your eyes--and what the hell is it going to take to make you see that you are being played? How many more mother's sons? How many more constitutional rights falling by the wayside? How much more corporate control of every aspect of our lives? How much more degradation our environment? Our social, moral civil infrastructure? Our standing in the world? How much more looting, jobs lost, unions weakened, health crisis, the promise to future generations--and you have the small-minded echo chamber charge that for speaking out Sheehan is vain or an attention whore? What kind of message is that sending to those who would stand up and speak out? That we are only seeking attention and that we should sit down and shut up and let the polished, manucured, blow-dried well-heeled in their tailored suits ruling elite take care of matters---that we are out of our league, that we are less qualified? That they are NOT attention whores? Are the Clintons anything less than attention whores? They were in the whitehouse for 8 years and they don't know when to exit. They managed to make sure the Democrats stood for nothing using only triangulation strategy to win on Republican causes.

What is more important--allegiance to the Democrats--even when they are allied with the Right or standing up for what's right and shouting down all those who betray us?

The apologists for the Democrats here simply don't understand the corrupt role played by their party in the political system. The Democrats are commonly said to be "the lesser evil", but this is not true. They're an organic part of the same evil, an essential part of the same vicious machine.

The Dems are designed to attract the votes of the liberal half of the population via carefully calibrated doses of pseudo-progressive rhetoric & posturing. At the same time, just underneath this fake "progressive" veneer, they are 100% Establishment, embrace the status quo & fear change, and therefore share much of the Republican world view. They are an instrument of the ruling class -- essentially, the "B Team" that the ruling class sends in, when their "A Team" has temporarily incurred the wrath of the population through excessive plundering.

So, when you vote for a Democrat, what you invariably get is someone who you hope will live up to your fondest progressive aspirations, but who is virtually guaranteed to betray them at every turn.

Pelosi is a perfect example of a Democrat. On the surface, she seems a decent person -- certainly not an overt monster like Bush, Cheney, Rummy, DeLay, etc. Yet someone like Pelosi is guaranteed to wind up protecting or selling out to the Bushes & Cheneys, every time. Her class loyalties & fear of real change insure this.

That's what the D vs R system is: a choice between an overt monster, & its fake "opponent." The role of the fake opposition is to ensure that even when the monster gets less votes, its basic interests are protected anyhow. That's not a "lesser evil." It's organic collaboration with the system's essential anti-democratic evil.

Sounds like someone caught the hubris bug.

Cindy maybe you should stick to what you are good at. we need qualified people to lead this country not people with an ax to grind, we have enough of that.

Nancy Pelosi has dug her own hole and so have the rest of them. The revolution will finally be televised.

Great article and comments. I really like the term, Mrs. Hope. I think it sure does define Cindy Sheehan. I think Cindy made a great decision in taking on Pelosi. I'm sure Nancy Pelosi must be feeling some kind of pressure because of Cindy. Pelosi has let her own voters down, but it'll be harder for her to ignore Cindy Sheehan who is known throughout the US and International and has great support.

What a happy day as of yesterday. First the good news of Cindy and then DemocracyNow had Ralph Nader on for the entire hour. We are now out of Mercury retrograde, and let the progress continue.

Three cheers for Cindy!

One of the many items this nation has lost its knack for over the stultifying recent decades, is the ability (or willingness?) to recognize true leadership when it emerges. Cindy is one of those figures whose latent leadership qualities came to the surface from just outrage. She has nothing more to lose, AND -- most importantly -- no big money backers to please.

Her choice to challenge Pelosi is right on the mark -- and we need far more of such thinking.

If you can understand that, you can perhaps understand much of the logic of the Green Party as it tries to expand the narrative of this nation to include its people in the most elemental and important decisions.

The growing Green movement does so by not only challenging the status quo, but by offering brighter, saner, cleaner, more responsive and inclusive solutions to our unsolved problems -- many of which were created by very UNdemocratic policy-making of, by and for the corporate agenda.

Both major parties have been complicit in this hijacking, and good wishes to the contrary, are hardly the ones capable of offering solutions to the messes their actions have produced.

Those who have managed so far to occupy the positions of power must be made to re-think it all. Our elections have become basically a coverup for buying influence.

Go Cindy! Pile on the pressure so that the people's agenda can be heard above the din.

To put on further pressure across the board, see switch2green.org about using party registration as a meaningful and effective political pressure tool as well.

Every politician is motivated by self-interest. How much self-interest ($ to get elected, pleasing their pay-masters) balances against duty to the nation and its ideals is the equation demonstrated day by day. Cindy Sheehan is like the catalyst entering into a chemical equation. This is going to rouse things. Pelosi will not be able to AFFORD complacency. It'll come to the wire: either she gives up her own political ambitions, or learns to serve the greater good which in this instance is OBVIOUSLY, OVERTLY, PLAINLY, OSTENSIBLY the path to impeach these unconvicted CONVICTS who are running out nation (and several others) to absolute ruin! THANK YOU CINDY... here is one status quo worth blasting! You are THE dynamite, sister! Your son would be so proud... and I believe he IS watching!

Little Brother, Rich M, Vern, Kathyodat....Amen and AMEN!

Great point made by Alan about the Constitution. Palosi taking impeachment off the table is the same as taking away our Constitutional right to impeach leaders who go against the will of the people. Palosi should indeed be impeached right along with the other two, just to prove the point that the American people are done playing games with our rights. We will remove one leader at a time, replacing them with true populists if we must.

it doesn't matter whether the votes are theIr or not. sometimes you have to do the right thing despite the concequences. START THE PROCEEDINGS! what the hell do they have to to merrit impeachment. a blow job?

It is not a longshot. It is a sure thing. Nichols clings to his conventions.

My mother always said Pelosi is "just a girl" and does as a girl is told in her feminine place. Sheehan will blow her out of the water.

The other talking points argument used is the claim that it would damage the country-- impeachment would be too disruptive, too traumatic. Clinton's impeachment is always sited as the example.
Ludicrous, isn't it, considering the real danger, damage and precedence it would set for the country by letting it all pass.

The constitution provides for Impeachment. It should never, never be "taken off the table". That is like changing the constitution without ammending it! Polosi does not have the power to change the constitution by herself.

Liberal against conservative, Republican against Democrat and the third parties just keep struggling on the outskirts..
Same old story, but nothing really changes that will affect the status-quo.
Their is only the illusion of possible change, no real change every happens in the system.
In fact, things continue to get worse! Haven't you noticed?
The money controls the system and they are laughing all the way to the bank!

Pelosi, in typical Democratic fashion, always acts in coward ways. Democrats always act first on their personal financial profit and political careers, never on principle. They're no better than Republicans. In fact, they're worse.

Pelosi is the one who should be impeached for taking impeachment of Bush off the table. What an insane and corrupt woman. I hope Sheehan, who's a true hero, takes on this fraud.

A couple of questions for all those who keep saying Sheehan doesn't know how things work in the Congress.

Did members of the first congress know how things work in congress?

Do rookie congress people know how things work in congress?

Why do you then vote a person to be the President of the United States if he's never been president before? Get a clue.

There is no question that if Sheehan runs, Pelosi loses her seat in Congress.

Here's why:

Even if Sheehan lost to Pelosi, Pelosi would be guaranteed to lose her seat in Congress if Sheehan ran. This is because she would not have enough votes to beat the Republican challenger for her seat in Congress.

The only reason the votes are not there is because our representatives have not yet felt enough pressure from their constituents, and from the leadership. Impeachment is only a possibility when the articles begin to be acted upon, and our leadership convinces us that it is a reality. At that point, the political pressure will be so strong, it will be irresistible, even for many R's. Most R's realize that their reign is over anyway, and they have to ask themselves what will at least possibly keep them in the game after the coming elections, which is displaying true leadership by answering the call of the majority. The R's who survive the next election will be the ones who step out of there narrow little mind frame and do the hard work of critical policy inquiry. So, the whole argument about "not having the votes" is the biggest cop out possible.

Palosi, get off your ass and begin the process! Impeachment was off the table for Nixon for a very long time too, until a few bold leaders decided they were sick of hearing that in light of the crimes that had obviously been committed. The case for Bush and Chaney is easily three times as powerful. We just need you and others to step up and speak for us.

I hope that the Cindy thing catches on at least enough for Pelosi to take note of the unconstitutional flood of impeachable acts by Bu$h the inferior and Shotgun Dick and announce that she is shocked, shocked, at whichever one pops up and starts impeachment.

Pelosi knows a bandwagon when she sees one and she will dash out and lead it as soon as the destination is clear.

Time is critical for the impeachment process to begin. Every day they have been breaking the law since even before their first (s)election. These have not been victimless crimes. We are a hairtrigger away from WAR with Iran. U.S. influence throughout the Middle East is currently a catalyst for chaos. Syria could wake up to Shock and Awe. Lebanon and Pakistan are powderkegs. Do you like the idea of Cheney running this horror show for a couple more years? Do you think they have run out of really bad ideas? The Founding Fathers (and Mothers) didn't have a sure thing, but they did the right thing anyway because it was a very important thing to do. Simple majority to get it rolling. Investigation with teeth. Larger viewing audience. Closed minds might have to open in light of the many potential findings. Impeachment proceedings may tie up a lot of lawmaker's time but it will also tie up lawbreaker's time, they might be so busy they have a harder time screwing up the vote this time. Time will make a lot of difference for many lives. If Cindy Sheehan runs, I will send her some hard earned cash. I feel love for you people, even the bratty ones, may we all find peace together.

The Democratic Party needs to go beyond Pelosi if she won't stand up for what most Americans want, which is to Impeach Bush and Cheney together as provided for in the US Constitution. It is not logical that Pelosi is resisting unless she is under pressure/blackmail, which is a common Republican strategy (threatening family or revelation of controversial secrets is a favorite of theirs -- remember the microphones in Watergate? The tricks are even dirtier now). Thanks to Ms Sheehan for saying it's time to go around Pelosi if she won't stand up, for whatever reason.... and not let her mistakes gum up the works.... AND moreover have other Democratic leaders start some good long talks with Ms Pelosi to find out what her problem is on this issue .. she is obligated to her constituents to explain WHY impeachment if off the table. 'Why, Nancy, is impeachment of the table?' needs to be asked by her constituents AND her congressional colleagues. We want answers, because the USA is a time-bomb with the WACKO in Washington.

You go Cindy! The name "Pelosi", has now replaced the word "shame" in the vocabulary of northern California, if not the vocabulary of all U.S progressives. And I am a New Yorker. This is the best the Bay Area could produce? It goes without saying that this is one of the most hard core progressive areas of the country. Did this change since the last time I checked? Even I was hopeful at first, "wow, a Bay Area Dem as house speaker, woooo hoooo!!!". With the Bay Area voting in war criminal enablers like this, there is no justification for pointing fingers at the reddest areas of red states and the people they elect. It makes me want to vomit.

What a sickening, very disturbing mutant this war-monger is. She is a certified member of the war-mongers cult. AIPAC is an important pillar of this cult, and they would sooner detonate thermonuclear weapons to destroy the entire planet than admit that Israel has ever committed evil acts. Thankfully, only a small number of Jewish psychos are involved in this despicable cabal; ironically, they get more support from Christian Zionists than from most American Jews - the religious paradox of the era.

Thank you McDee. Nancy Pelosi hasn't signed on to HR 676 but she did sign NAFTA. We need to vote for progressives in the primaries and elect them and we will have to fight off the DLC to do it, and that includes Nancy Pelosi. And we then will have a House full of inexperienced Democrats, but the Progressive Caucus will help them to learn their jobs.

We've been giving these centrists more time for years. They sound SO progressive when they're running for office, then when they win, they vote for the corporations. But don't feel lonely Micki, there's plenty of Blue Dogs left still taking their time.

What happens to Cindy is up to the voters of San Francisco's 8th district. They will have to weigh their disappointment with Nancy with losing her seniority. It will be interesting.

Micki...You are right. We should just give them some more time. Being Speaker is a really tough job. We should be less demanding.Someday, maybe not this year, but soon, if we're patient and STAY THE COURSE, the Dems will do what we elected them to do.

Do you, Micki, have a clue as to how things work? We keep accepting the Dems, they keep selling us down the river, and your advice is to keep on doing what we've been doing.

That is a recipe for more of the same. Progressives have been doing this since the 70's and all we get is Dems who disappoint us when they lose and disappoint us even more when then win (Carter, Clinton).

Enough! It was written in a post that Sheehan would just pave the way for the Repubs by stealing Dem votes. Votes don't belong to anyone. They are earned! Has Pelosi earned our votes with her performance?

My answer is NO! and the answer of a significant number of voters in her district will also be NO!

Of course, we will begin to see Cindy "Naderized" by the Dem apparatchiks and apologists. Again I say, ENOUGH. If the Dems really have earned the votes and support of Progressives they will get them. If not, they Shouldn't. That sounds like Democracy to me!!!

If Nancy Pelosi really wanted to end the war, she wouldn't be taking her sweet time about it. U.S. casualties since she took office are only increasing. Does she really give a damn? It doesn't look like it.
Cindy Sheehan, on the other hand, surely does. Who cares if she's not a "savvy politician"? Who needs any more of them?

Impeachment will be back on the table, whether Cindy Sheehan marches to Washington, DC, and issues her ultimatium to Nancy Pelosi or not.

Nancy Pelosi realized long ago, that with investigations -- and time -- the pieces would fall into place to make impeachment a viable option. These things sometimes move at a glacial pace. Deal with it.

How would we like it, if the Dems had gone for the jugular the moment Speaker Pelosi gaveled the 110th Congress to order?

We would not have liked it at all. And the majority of Americans would not have appreciated it either.

Oh, nevermind...all of you with your zeal for revenge will ensure that we're all screwed again.

Oh, for chrissakes, here we go again! Eating our young. Being so self-righteous and pure, we f**k up everything in sight. Does Cindy Sheehan have a clue on how things work? While I understand her passion and commitment to ending the war, does she not realize that Nancy Pelosi wants to end the war, too?!!

Obviously Pelosi isn't satisfying all of us, on our schedule, but -- damn -- being the Speaker of the House is a tough job, especially being Speaker of a Dem House! Pelosi has to try to handle the liberals on the one hand, and the conservative Blue Dog Democrats on the other hand, and try to retain the House in '08 for the Dems, and CINDY SHEEHAN blithely thinks she can to a better job for the common good?!

Get real, Cindy.

Cindy is smart as hell -- her timing impeccable, giving voice to exactly what all of us were feeling and thinking at the height of the moment. She "threw in the towel" after the Dems voted to fund the war - probably the most depressing week of the year. If you don't think that made a deep impression on the Dems, guess again. Even today, I heard our own Harry Mitchell (who voted for the funding much to my chagrin) talking about how they are going to force an exit now.

And right at the moment when everyone is up in arms about Libby's get out of jail free pass, she announces her plan to run against Pelosi. Again, giving voice and exposure to what we are all thinking and feeling.

At the World Social Forum in Caracas, Hugo Chavez introduced her as "Mrs. Hope". As in, hope that the American people will be able to wake up and stand up to the criminals in charge and take their country back. That the people might wake up and see how our government and corporations are abusing our brothers and sisters across the globe and begin to stand in solidarity with the people of the world. It is the perfect name for her. She gives us all hope by her amazing courage to walk the talk.

Cindy knows right from wrong, honesty from dishonesty, fairness from injustice. That is a lot more than I can say for the majority of the people we have up on the hill. If that is all she knows (and do not underestimate her intelligence and political savvy) that would be enough for me!

Talk2habermas, Cindy Sheehan may be inept, a quitter ,and not quite savvy. But she has the right to a mistake like anyone else.But,she is intelligent enough to learn from her mistakes. That is why she is changing course and turning her back to them bastards who betrayed her. She is on her way to accomplish great deeds all alone. How about you? How much have you accomplished for this nation with your tremendous knowledge of political history? Do you at least have the courage to join her right now or contribute somehow to her cause which The Noble Cause? If not just shut up and leave her alone. No one who quotes from Noam Chomsky can be trusted after all.

Drex, you said ' Iroquois227 laid out some interesting questions and no one spoke to those questions' Well, someone tried if you had bothered to notice. And in case you can do a better job just go ahead, the field is open and we are here to learn from each other. Otherwise, stop criticizing. By the way why do you hope that Cindy Sheehan's pressure can accomplish something and tip the thing for you while at the same time you are so scornful of her to the pont that she is only a nut-case to you? What have you accomplished for this nation so far? If nothing, just go away and leave her alone.

Cindy will need more than our cheering her on from the sidelines if she has any chance of taking Pelosi down.

The Pelosi family of the bay area is worth over $25 million, due mainly to her husband's investments and real estate holdings. She has outspent all of her opponents. In the last election she actually spent over $1million!! During that same election in 2004 her biggest contributor was Occidental Petroleum. (Any surprise there folks? And you all thought she was an environmentalist, didn't you?) This info can be found at http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Nancy_Pelosi

The Pelosi family is well-known and well-connected both in the political arena in the bay area as well as the media.

Yes, Cindy Sheehan might have the drive and determination but she will need more than that to take on and beat this corporate politician.

I hope it's becoming obvious that posters such as Iroquois are simply trying to bait us. If you respond, no matter what you say, you reward them. Don't leave sugar on the counter, and you won't have roaches ;)

Further on the topic of deep emotional needs for attention is Poet's suggestion that Cindy Sheehan go "cold turkey". He may have a point: Ms. Sheehan is showing very clear symptoms of emotional fatigue. She might really need some time to regroup, and moving from "I've had it with America" to "I'm ready to run for Congress against the Speaker of the House" in less than 45 days is worrisome to me. I doubt she's truly ready for another crusade so soon after such an ordeal.

Having said that, I am selfishly delighted to see her sticking pins into Ms. Pelosi's posterior. If she can stay focused, and relax emotionally a bit, she could be perfectly devastating to the Dems' slightly-left-of-NeoCon positioning.

I do sympathize with Ms. Sheehan, though. It must be exceedingly difficult to "stay centered" while you're under a national microscope and seething with rage about your lost son, and a seemingly brain-dead country.

Hooo.. I can only imagine how dubya would react if Cindy won!!! Then he'd have no choice but to answer to Cindy.

Pelosi is just another corporatist, the leadership of the democratic party is bought and paid for and they are not shy about telling everyone inside the beltway just how much more money the dems have gotten from corporate lobbyists. Rahm is dating the US chamber of commerce at this point. Follow the MONEY.....

Dear Mr. Iriquois,
I so deeply admire your trenchant analysis of the nasty Ms. Sheehan. Your subtly nuanced critique of this megalomanic leaves me breathless. It was only your mention your code pinkpussy that restored my breath--Oh, I'm breathing so hard now! Could we meet?

We've had a visitor upthread a bit who, in typical right wing extremist fashion, gave us an obscenity-laden ignorant rant. These are the ilk who have been emboldened by the relentless march to the right, led by the Republicans and followed by the Democrats.

The whole discourse in our country needs changing so that the Speaker of the House would take into account our viewpoint more than that of a violent nut for whom "turd" is a fully developed political thought.

When Speaker Pelosi fails to oppose criminal extremists, she reinforces the status quo.

i haven't read any of the above posts. i just want to comment on Nichols claim, " Sheehan, who is far savvier about politics than her critics recognize."

if cindy sheehan is so politically savvy then why did she support pelosi and the democrats in the last election. for instance the quote Nichols uses demonstrates this miss-placed or politically unsavvy decision, "Sheehan, a Californian, sums up homestate sentiments regarding Pelosi when the activist says: "She let the people down who worked hard to put Democrats back in power, who we thought were our hope for change."

was it politically savvy to work so hard for the democrats? probably not considering a brief, off the top of the head, track record

Clinton bombed Iraq, sudan, and afghanistan, lead the bombing campaing in Kosovo, supported paramilitary death squads in Haiti, started plan columbia, passed NAFTA, and to Madeline Albright the secratary of state dead Iraqi children killed by US santions were merely "collateral damage."

then there's the Carter doctrine that declares middle eastern oil is really US oil and we will respond to any threat by any means necessary.

then there was george mcgovern who after the vietnam catastrophy called for a us invasion of cambodia as noam chomsky points outs in after the cataclysm: post-war indo-china.

there is harry truman who needlessly nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

and FDR interned the japanees in world war 2.

wilson rounded up and deported all political dissidents in the palmer raids. back when there was a real anarchist and socialist movement across this country. wilson also invaded russia after the bolshevik revolution.

the democrats have never been a source of progressive change. a quick reading of Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn's writings illustraites the long history of Democratic complacency in the same US policies that Cindy Sheehan seams to think are reserved soley for the current Bush ad.

cindy sheehan is politically savvy? um no she's not. she quit the peace movement about 2 weeks ago because she is politically inept. it was the democrats the political party she supported and "worked so hard to get elected" who failed and ridiculed. so she quit. if that's the meaning of "politically savvy" on the left then there is little wonder why our positions are ignored.

HI,
I am all for Cindy beating Pelosi. Pelosi has a very weird relationship with Bush. She is always very defensive in talking about him and sees herself as the great compromiser. She even glows at times. I think she has a crush on him. I was shocked when she said even before the election that impeachment was off the table. It is her responsibility to impeach Bush. Then he can be prosecuted in criminal courts-though she would pardon him (see above). She is neglecting her constitutional duty. She deserves to loose. It does not matter whether or not the votes are there. The facts demand it. Pelosi has betrayed the constitution. Why doesn't Pelosi have to answer the obvious question: Why is impeachment off the table?

I hope Cindy runs and wins. Nancy (impeachment is off the table Pelosi) makes me want to puke.If pelosi is any example of a woman in power we sure don't need one for president. What a disaster that would be.

Pelosi is even a worse traitor than bush. At least we know where bush&co are coming from, with Pelosi she carries the banner then impales us with it.

When only millionaires run for office only millionaires will be represented.

nodupe, your response to Poet is rude and off the mark. I don't agree with his position, but it's one some will be considering.

Cindy is not running for Speaker of the House. She is running for Congress and would bring a breath of fresh air and HONESTY to the place. I'm not worried about her credentials. Better than Tom "The Hammer" DeLay whose credentials were that he ran a company kiling bugs and paying fines to the EPA for violations.

Bush and Cheney need to wear the Scarlet I for IMPEACHMENT, just like Nixon did -- it doesn't matter about conviction (though if the Repugs would look at the facts honestly they would vote overwhelming for impeachment). Nancy Pelosi at the very least should be pushing for Dennis Kucinich's H.Res. 333 to impeach Cheney -- it is a start, a much needed start.

And Cindy, thanks, for giving Nancy Pelosi a bigger push than any of us can. That said, WE SHOULD ALL be calling and writing our Reps AND Pelosi and DEMANDING impeachment for Cheney and the Son of a Bush:

Congressional Switchboard: 202-224-3121

Speaker Nancy Pelosi:
http://speaker.gov/contact/

Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-0100

Thank YOU! (AND do yourself a favor and buy John Nichols' book THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT.)

For Peace, IMPEACH!!

Peace hugs - impeachment hugs!

Big Nose Kate is right, the federal legislators have received plenty of instructions and have ignored them.

Perhaps it's necessary to expand the tactics.

It's been said that all politics is local. Perhaps we should also lean on the local politicians – city, county and state. No doubt they have more influence with the members of their party in federal office than the average voter does, and the average voter has more influence with the local politicians than with the federal ones.

Heat rises.

Cindy, by taking this position on impeachment, and threatening to run again Pelosi, is saying to the democratic party, if you represent the interests of the working class in this country, then impeach, and prosecute, or get out of the way.

The democratic party needs to step up (which it can't) or be exposed for the party it is. This is a party that pretends to represent workers interests but sells them out to their handler's, the multi-national corporations.

You can't represent the interests of the working class and the multi-national corporations, as this is a conflict of interest. This may expose more and more people to this conflict, and as a result, a new independent working class party, can be built.

Virtually every representative in the federal Legislature today has received copious volumes of "instructions" from their constitutionally designated boss WE THE PEOPLE to impeach Dick n Bush. So far, our "employees" have responded with an emphatic, "NO!" I think Cindy is correct, it is way passed the time to Pink Slip these insubordinate flunkies for gross dereliction of duty and replaced them with personnel that R.E.S.P.E.C.T. the rule of law.

But maybe that's just my opinion...

I share the disgust, embarrassment and rage that many of the posters here feel over the behavior of a rogue Administration and a craven Congress that has disgraced a great nation and it's people.

But I believe we must control that rage, lest we be perceived and dismissed as ranting and irrational, like Coulter, Savage and their ilk. Ad hominem attacks and obscenities undermine our cause; we have plenty of ammunition without them.

The point is not whether removal from office is possible, but that by demanding impeachment, we clearly demonstrate to the world that the American people want an accounting of the leadership that has betrayed our principles. That we, as a people, stand for honor and integrity and that Bush and Co do not represent American values.

As Frederick Douglass said: "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." By challenging politicians like Pelosi, we give voice to those demands, and they ignore that voice at their peril.

As the history of the 20th century demonstrates, the progressives never controlled Congress or the White House, but their ideas gained enough traction that the major parties could no longer ignore them. We don't necessarily have to beat them, we just need to scare them enough.

I hope Cindy's pressure on Pelosi accomlishes something and maybe it will but I think a deal was cut to get rid of Rumsfeld.
Sometimes I have to shake my head at the sheep-like bleating on this thread. Iroquois227 laid out some interesting questions and no one spoke to those questions other than emotional rhetoric. So what has Cindy Sheehan accomplished? Maybe she became some focal point for those like us on this thread but to mainstream America she is a nut-case. If you dont think so go out and talk to family and friends who are not left of center.
I think we should all continue to email, write and phone Pelosi's office to ask for impeachment and hope Ms. Sheehans pressure is enough to tip things towards impeachment but lets not get hot to skewer a voice that says what we dont want to hear

In addition to Ms. Sheehan talking abt running for Congress as an independent peace and justice candidate, there is also talk of former Congresswoman Cynthia McKi9nney running for president as either an independent peace and justice candidate, or the nominee of the Green Party. To me this shows there is a lot of unhappiness with the Democrats as the supposed champions of peace and justice.

http://myspace.com/draftmckinney2008

Quote from article- No one really expected Pelosi to lead the charge for impeachment.

I think that many people mistakenly expected her to lead the charge for impeachment. For her to say impeachment is off the table is why Cindy Sheehan candidacy is on the table.

I hope Cindy gets elected. It is time to put pressure on the democratic party to represent their 'constituents'. Who exactly does the democratic party leadership stand for? Unfortuantly the sad answer is the corporate buck, just like the republicans.

I hope the democratic leadership get the boot as they deserve, but they won't. Again, third party will be blamed for another possible republican win, but let me tell you that the Democrats never had my vote in the first place so it can't be taken away.

As far as Kucinich goes, I think that he comes close to presenting a reasonable and just solution to our many injustices, but in the last presidential primary, Kucinich put party loyalty ahead of the core principles that he preaches about.

I would vote for Cindy if I could.

IMPEACH.

peace, justice, and human rights for all.

Take the pledge for Peace - www.NotOneMore.US

Of the People by the People. Those words were chosen in an attempt to eliminate false hierarchies. Politics and the judiciary draw from the same well - lawyers and capitalists. The vast majority of Americans probably don't even speak about politics or law to/with their families, either from apathy or because differences of viewpoint can be divisive.
So What's wrong with this picture?
How can a people govern themselves if they only draw their representatives from one sort of people... and on top of that seem to believe one must be "trained/groomed" to even have a chance to serve?
Where are the teachers, social workers, carpenters, and caretakers represented in our government? Few of us are lawyers or judges (and few of those would say they need anyone telling them how to do what they do!)
The reason we have different branches of government is each is supposed to represent a portion of balance, one to administrate/preserve LAW/Order, One to uphold Justice, one to represent the Will of the People... Our founders, Patriarchs that they were, left out a final and very important portion of the Great Nations Council they patterned our system on, and that is "the grandmothers consent" those who have nothing to gain but the ongoing well being of their grandchildren's grandchildren... a serious omission when you consider that the other portions are all made up of those who believe it is their power & purpose - to institute their opinions and either maintain the status quo or sweeten the share of those who support them.
Where are the grandmothers in our Government?
By most people's (or is that the MSM?) standards that-sort of people are "unelectable". They don't carry the clout, they can't muster the support, can't draw the cash... They are just people, with nothing but their life experience to offer... Better to have someone who knows procedure, is a great debater, can fundraise, has been in charge of others,... oh right that's life isn't it? Who decided that to be effective in government you had to "package" yourself as more than a decent listener, one who can also read and understand a bill, and has no problem asking for constituent input?
Time for the Revolution Folks - and happily it can be bloodless - All we have to do is ignore the two party system of candidates and choose our representatives from the people committed to Peace, Justice, and the Freedom in our own communities.
Our revolution needs to start at home. We need to rethink our system of empowerment. We need to credit each other with the ability, desire, and common sense we afford our own selves. We need to believe that the janitor knows as much and perhaps more about how to get things done for his community than the attorney or businessman who's expertise leans to power-brokering or aquiring money. We need to credit the woman who works daily with 100s of kids, with enough ability to represent policies that will enrich others across our land. We need to acknowledge that our elders might have more than enough experience in innumerable areas to assist their communities effectively. We need to stop handing our elections over to politics and start electing people who agree to serve a couple terms for no more than the median income in their communities, aren't beholden to corporate sponsors, and can campaign directly at little or no cost. If We the People weren't content with having our candidates packaged in glossy advertising, soundbites and colorful t-shirts - we could do without the paid-for posturing and draw representatives from those who took the time to be accessible to us directly via internet,town meetings, and pot-luck events. We don't have to wait for, pay for, or even allow the MSM to select our representatives. We could actually elect people who are representative not of some party or ideological abstract - but of who we actually are.
Cindy Sheehan unseating Nancy Pelosi is a great start...

AND by the way, as to how "effective" Cindy has been... she has given recognition to protest, given heart to dissent, and been a cup of caffine to the bleary eyed Americans who just wanted someone else to deal with it... That is the gist of leadership!

One other point.

Pelosi, Reid and the rest took a solemn oath at the beginnings of this session of Congress. They stood in the well of their respective houses, and they swore to 'uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic."

There's nothing political in that oath. There's nothing that says to do it only if they think the votes are there to suceed. There's nothing there that says to do this only if they think it improves their party's chances in the next election.

They are the holders of high office in a republic. They have a duty to the citizens of that republic. They have a duty outlined in the Constitution of the United States that outlines what acts they should take should a President exceed his constitutional authority and claim powers for himself far beyond what the framers of this constitution gave to what they envisioned as a relatively weak executive.

As leader of the House or Representatives, Nancy Pelosi has a fundamental constitutional duty to fulfill. If she is failing to do this, the citizens of this country should do everything possible to remove her from the House of Representatives.

Face it ... at this time, the only people who are propping up Cheney and Bush in office are Reid and Pelosi.

There is certainly a case for impeachment. At least one worthy of hearings and investigations. Then, at the end of that the House votes on what they've heard.

I'm sick of this argument saying the votes aren't there. If the fight never takes place, then who knows if the votes are there or not? The very fact of weeks of impeachment hearings and the evidence being laid out can change the minds of both voter and reps.

Remember, the votes for Nixon's impeachment weren't there either when it started. It was the revelations that came out during the process that finally pushed it to the point where Republicans started saying Nixon had to go. That was when he resigned.

But the bottom line is this. As of today, there are two people who are propping up Bush and Cheney and keeping them in office. That is Sen. Harry Reid and Rep. Nancy Pelosi.

They need to explain to an American people who are increasingly upset and are realizing that this country is in deep trouble and this must come to an end before Bush and Cheney destroy what's left of our republic.

Hey, Poet,you are making a fool of yourself in a forum where intelligent people dicuss serious matters. The idiocy posted by RIQUOI227 deserved consideration. But yours is so dumb that it only reveals your deep ignorance. Just go away. You are not curable.Shame on you.

RIQUOIS227,

You attack on Cindy is so much personal that it already destroyed your own credibility. What a fruitless effort on your part. A good example of an asshole criticizing a real patriot.

What is the worst thing she can do, start a war, bring the troops home alive?

Once upon a time ther was an angry restaurant owner. His name was Lester Maddox and he said he would by God run for "Guvnur" and everybody told him (behind sarcastic smirks) g'wan do it Lester, run Lester run. Well he huffed and he puffed and he went up and down all of Georgia and lo and behold he got to be "Guvnur".

What followed was someting akin to an unruly little boy brat who was in completely over his head. Ditto for the likes of Jesse Ventura, Lurlene Wallace, Ronald Reagan, Ahnuld Da Guvernator, etc.

What I am trying to say is that Cindy
Sheehan knows one thing--she is angry and deeply offended by a war that took away her beloved Casey.

As far as the duties, responsibiities, and conduct of a congress person she doesn't know shit from shinola. This means that she is either going to make a fool of herself or be in the control of "handlers" and we are right back where we started from with the Pelos'.

Cindy, the best way to break the grip of the biologically addictive fame and pubicity seeking to lure you to destruction is to go cold turkey.

Go through the night sweats, the vomiting, the nasua, the disorientation and know that on the other side you will be able to "move on"and not be in the thrall of enslavement to others.

"We don't have the votes" is a pathetically sneaky way for Ms. Pelosi et al. to shut the progressive movement up for awhile.
It doesn't matter if the "votes are there"; what matters is that we TRY! That we give a damn about what kind of precedent NOT TRYING will set for future Presidencies:
Democratic, Green, or Republican. Do you want Nancy and friends to take up where George and Dick leave off, abusing power ( power has a way of corrupting, as we have seen ) and cow-towing to the the demands of their corporate benefactors?
Of course not. That is why impeachment proceedings are a must: BushCo. has to be forced to take responsibility for its 8-year legacy of corruption and abuse of power.
We don't need a Senate trial or removal from office; just
employing the impeachment tool, one that the Constitution gives us, restores a degree of dignity to our Federal government.
Who knows? Like Nixon, those White House and DOJ Horrors may just resign rather than face a humiliating exposure of their misdoings in full view of Congress and the world.

I wish I lived in Nancy's district so I could vote for Cindy. I admire her courage and willingness to speak truth to power. I have no respect, on the other hand, for Congress Critter Pelosi who has betrayed Democrats and "former Democrats" like myself. It's people like Nancy Pelosi who turned me away from the Democratic party. I work for third party people now. Any spoiler will do. The Dems must go and the repubs will soon follow.

Iroquois227,

I tried to defend you under free speech. But now it is painfully obvious that you are a pessimistic pric who has no sense of decency and dignity. Go dig yourself a hole and sequester yourself from the rest of the world you moron!

Cindy Sheehan's targeting of Nancy Pelosi is an excellent tactic, and such a campaign may actually be winnable. Because of her media visibility and a national (and international) cadre of supporters, Sheehan would be able to draw resources that other potential independent candidates can't: both people and money.

While the "cat fight" angle would obviously be featured by the fundamentally sexist mainstream media, a smart campaign could turn that basic issue around and demand that two women candidates should be viewed as exactly that: candidates in competition because they have very different political views.

Dave Lindorff's post is especially important. Raul Emmanuel and other leading pro-war DLCers should be targeted. Actually, his first primary was pretty competitive and his opponent, Nancy Kaszek - a community activist - lost, in part, because her supporters conducted a nationalist (and at times, anti-semitic) campaign. Kaszek, a Polish-American, is neither, but Emmanuel's people were rich enough and smart enough to play up that foolishness.

Kaszek may still be around. If she and her supporters were to run a campaign based on the facts that Emmanuel is a rich investment banker, a DLCer and a pro-war (it doesn't stop with Iraq for him) zealot, they may have a chance. It's a fight, as Lindorff points out, that should be fought.

Is impeachment our top priority? We won't have the votes for an impeachment conviction until January, 2009. I'm concerned that our anger is going to divide us just when we should all be working together to bring the troops home from Iraq right NOW.

Dear IRIQUOIS227, your posting is the most challenging and provocative and deserves a response because you seem to have a bright spot somewhere in your brain that can be adressed with logic. Let us see. You say that the country needs 'people with cajone'.Are you one? then come out and lead the march. Cindy did step aside to give 'people with cajone' a chance but no one showed up. Which means that there is a serious vacuum for courage and audacity. So, she had to come back to stand up against fascism in the making. You say ' she has absolutely done nothing' Well, she managed to open the eyes of millions around the world to bush's lies and deceptions, and she did wake up many sleeping souls to the bitter and sordid political reality.That is a first step and a great achievement by itself. You say 'this turd needs psychological help' Did you know that even in ancient Greece those who dared talk truth to people were considered lunatics? You say 'his son is dead because he was stupid' No, he was, like million other idealist young men, naive enough to believe the lies of a criminal government. This dishonest government launched the heartbreaking 9/11 attack on USA to create a fear so overwhelming that almost everyone fell into the trap especially the yound and the gullible.So, be nice in your comments about a Brave Honest Lady who comes out because there are no real men courageous enough to do the job. She has some precious assets in her pockets : she has not been corrupted by corporate money,she is a grassroot from below who understands morality and ethics, she has no fear for her life because she knows that she belongs to the race of the Worthy and the Heros, the kind of Martin Luther King that the nation needs in these dire times even though the danger looms ahead for her.God bless you and the USA. May God be with Cindy in her srtuggle for Peace and Justice.

Re: the pathetic defeatism & ignorance of "Janco54" (12:42 pm), who writes,

While I am disappointed that Ms. Pelosi arbitrarily removed impeachment, the sad fact is that the votes are not there. As we've seen in the last seven months, we can't even override a veto.

Learn the facts before you speak. Impeachment requires only a simple majority vote in the House. That means 218 votes. The Dems have 231 seats. That means they could impeach TODAY, if they wanted to -- even if 13 Dems voted against it. They could do this without a single Republican vote.

The word "impeachment" does NOT mean removal from office. After the House impeaches an elected official, the Senate gets to decide whether or not to "convict" the official & remove him/her from office. Conviction requires 2/3 of the senators.

So, at least 12 Republican senators would be needed to remove Bush & Cheney from office. However, even if such a vote didn't ultimately succeed in removing the criminals from office, it could still have very beneficial effects. And it's the best that can be done -- surely better than sitting helplessly by, and not even trying to remove them. And finally, it is impossible to predict right now how the Senate trial would unfold. During Watergate, for example, it did not appear at the outset that Nixon would be forced from office.

I'm afraid that this doesn't go far enough. Madam Pelosi, powerful though she is, remains but one member of the House. Until every Democrat in both Houses is faced with a peace candidate in the upcoming primaries unless they back an end to the war, there will be some trying to have it both ways. The primary challenge is the biggest stick we have at the moment.

GOOD MOVE. Finally somebody realizes that 1/2 the problem in this country is the Democrats. It is Republican corruption AND Democrat in-action.

Pelosi is a GOP sell out and it is time to kick her butt.

Fixing America is more than just kicking Bush out off office - kick out Pelosi and her Ilk too!

At the very least, Sheehan will garner enough votes that a Republican has a very real chance of winning....the Spoiler aspect is the thing that should have Pelosi paying full attention here. I used to agree that Impeachment was a useless excercise given the absence of votes, However the process would be in trial form, with witnesses sworn to tell the truth or face contempt or purjury charges. THAT, to me is where the value lies in an attempt to impeach the criminals we are saddled with. That...and roll call votes to show the people of our country all the corruption the Republicans are willing to put up with.

I have been trying to organize people in my town to work with me at getting impeachment signatures. My biggest problem is the response, 'By the time you impeach them their terms will be up. So what's the point of an impeachment effort?' Is this really true? What would be a best-case scenario for the Senate trial in terms of time?

My apologies for asking this question again at Common Dreams: I asked it in the comments on another article yesterday, but forgot to save the url so I could get people's responses.

Who cares if the "votes are there". Firstly, this is about being on the record. History will judge all of us.
Secondly, as someone noted above, with the mood of this country, anything could happen; go for it!!!!!!!

Impeach and prosecute!! Be on the record-----"Whose side are you on?"

Cindy Sheehan beating Nancy Pelosi is not at all "a long shot". Why in the world would you think that? Only if the votes were tampered with would Cindy not win.

PLEASE PITCH IN AND HELP US ALL

by CALLING your congressional reps and telling them to IMPEACH THE WAR CRIMINALS IN THE WHITE HOUSE
Bush, Cheney, Rice & Gonzales!!!

this is as good a time as any for us to turn up the heat!

Even if Pelosi suprises us all by moving to impeach Bush, Cindy should run for public office. Maybe she could be Dennis Kucinich's running mate?

great move, Sheen; great move, San Francisco! the Impeachment Movement has taken a giant step forward with your actions!

The blood of those violently killed in the war on Iraq drips from Pelosi's hands. If there were any doubts as to whom are to be blamed, Pelosi has removed all doubt. Both parties are partners in crime.

Sheehan over Pelosi OUGHT to be a SLAM-DUNK!

AS Cosmos points out, it doesn't matter if the votes for impeachment are there or not. Not only does it say to the world that we are excercising our responsibility in running our democracy, and we apologize for the atrocities this cabal has engineered, but also to future officials, that we will not sit idley by while you rape and pillage.

The same goes for a campaign in Pelosi's district, by Cindy. Win or lose, it says to all politicians, get your shit together and represent the people.

It sure is easy to spot right wing trolls. Cruel, self-centered and vicious outlook laced with obscenity. What kind of mothers did they have, or did they have any?

Go away, Iriquois.

The beauty of this is that it can't be ignored.

We all can bitch and moan until we're blue in the face, and we're treated like we're not even out here. But put somebody running against her, right in her own district, who will remind her constituents day in and day out how she shirked her responsibilities in favor of political calculation -- and all of a sudden she can't just turn a deaf ear to it any more. Pelosi ignores Sheehan at great political peril -- Cindy means business, and she has a decent platform from which to be heard.

How positively wonderful. Go Cindy Go!

Iriquois: You are on the wrong blog. Hate-mongering fascists need to be on some Fox news or Amerikan Enterprise Institute blog. "Turd"? "Code Pinkpussy"? Her son was "whacked" because he was "stupid"? WHO IS PAYING YOU, YOU FASCIST PIG?? THE REPUBLIKKKAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE????

Cindy Sheehan is a real patriot. And the idea that "the votes aren't there" is more Reich-wing nonsense. The votes are NEVER there unless consciousness is raised & people come to the conclusion that they have a chance to change things. It's called "leadership", Pelosi. And you'd better look out: There are few places in the US with enough enlightened people to actually pull off an upset like this, but San Fransisco is one of them.

You go, Cindy. TRUE progressives everywhere will support you.

It doesn't matter if the "votes are there". It matters that statesmen/women take action in the Congress to address the high crimes and misdemeanors perpetrated by Bush and Cheney. The world needs to see that we are trying to save our democracy.

Thank you, Cindy, for putting political pressure on Pelosi.