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Is The US Mirroring Rome's Fall?
Circling around Washington is a broad swath of highways known as The Beltway. Two Americas exist today: one, "inside the Beltway," is composed of all the people who run the country; the other, "outside" it, is made up of all of the rest of the United States.
Ancient Rome was the same. It too was surrounded by a sacred boundary known as the pomerium.
Run, don't walk, to get a copy of Are We Rome? by Cullen Murphy. This slim book compares ancient Rome and contemporary U.S., and does it in an exceptionally intelligent and highly literate way.
Murphy examines the crucial question whether the U.S., like Rome, is destined to decline and fall. This notion isn't new but Murphy's approach is fresh and sharp and wholly captivating.
As one example, he points out that Rome never "fell" in the sense most people use the term of a sudden collapse; rather, it "dissolved into history" over about 200 years.
Today, like then, there is the presumption that because an impressive, indeed overpowering, empire exists, it must go on forever.
Washington, Murphy points out, has set aside $20 million for a "day of celebration" to mark eventual victory in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The Romans thought the same way. Among the very last Roman coins to be stuck were those that bore the legend, Roma Invicta - Rome Invincible.
There is the same dependence on military strength and the same ever-mounting difficulty in getting enough soldiers to enlist - Rome depending more and more on barbarians and the U.S. more and more on "military contractors."
There is the same gap between rich and poor. Far wider in Rome, which had almost no middle class, but far more socially destructive in the U.S. because of America's founding myth as an egalitarian society. Once that belief is lost, can belief in democracy, a contradiction in terms in a wildly unequal society, be sustained?
There is also a parallel across the centuries in the way the private sector in the U.S. is taking over more and more governmental activity in the form of philanthropy (as for universities and hospitals); the change agent here is the multiplication in the number of multi-millionaires, all eager to get their name on a piece of stone.
No differently so in Rome where the exorbitantly wealthy few paid for temples, baths, stadiums, public feasts.
The consequence was that the collectivity was hollowed out. In the U.S., as in Rome, public undertakings of all kinds arrive like gifts, with the public excluded from either involvement or obligation.
Murphy suggests that three horror-futures may await America. There's Fortress America, with the world kept at an ever greater distance.
There's City-State America with the U.S. nation-state dissolving and the cities becoming increasingly self-governing and autonomous like the old Italian city-states.
And there's what Murphy calls The Boardroom Scenario in which more and more of government is contracted out and corporations effectively run the country.
And he has a fourth option to suggest. Murphy writes: "The antidote is being American."
Unlike the Romans, who never changed much, Murphy writes, Americans are not happy with the way things are. If arrogant, they aren't complacent. There is anger at the wealth gap, at the decay of government (as in Hurricane Katrina), and there is a rooted belief in the power of invention, self-help, reform.
Let's hope he's right because the price for Rome's decline and fall was paid by everyone, not just the Romans themselves.
Richard Gwyn usually appears on Tuesdays.
© 2007 The Toronto Star
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Show AllThe empirical fall Rx remains invariable: Outlaw executives; external invaders and diversion with spectacles.
US is NOT exceptional.
I'm looking forward to "Are We Rome?"
A somewhat parallel work is "The Upside of Down" by Thomas Homer-Dixon. It's about "Catastrophe, Creativity, and the Renewal of Civilization". It's somewhat like Jared Diamond's "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed".
"Upside of Down" includes many detailed comparisons with Roman civilization, in particular with the way energy is the master resource of any civilization. Increasing the size and complexity of a society demands more and more energy. And the enormous lengths a society will go to get this energy. This is exactly what the US is now doing in the Middle East, and it is both making our society more rigid while bankrupting it, all to maintain a status quo.
The book also talks about the various "tectonic stresses" that are building up and challenging all societies on the planet.
Far more than a side by side comparison with Rome, "Upside of Down" uses the Roman example (and our own) to show how societies are stressed and how they respond, both positively and negatively.
The first sign of any empire's downfall is arrogance. And the US is currently at it's peak....
Not long after the start of the Bush Imperium such allusions to Imperial Rome were fashionable for a while, as the sycophantic (nay, treacherous) British press fell over itself to awe before the might and glory of the new Pax Romana. Then the self opinionated shills known as 'columnists' picked up the theme by rather smugly referring to Britain as 'Greeks' to Washington's 'Romans' i.e. an educated and erudite civilising hand on the brute power of the empire. This arrogant delusion only lasted a few days however, as someone pointed out that the Greeks were in fact Roman slaves and the notion quickly faded from view...
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away
Another comparison is that Washington seems like it is starting to be ruled by families. The Bush's have ruled for too long, and what if Jeb runs in the future? Also the Clinton's may have another 8 years coming up. Very, very interesting article.
Where is Alaric when you need him?
Interestingly, Terry Jones' flipped this comparison, seeing the Barbarians as almost noble when compared to the nasty Romans who reveled in blood sports and conquests.
In fact, the Romans are not so much unlike the Americans. Even their symbols and standards are the same. The early years of the American Republic were modelled on the Roman Republic and we know how that turned out. The insatiable need to conquer and expand much like America's manifest destiny, was the soul of both powers.
And the Roman Empire was never really an empire either, as the legions continued to march for the "Senate and People of Rome" SPQR far into the time the first emperors aggregated all power in their hands. The Republic survived in name only, much like today.
He is correct that it never fell. Ceasar anointed himself Pope and still rules the world. We have been living under the thumb of Rome for millenia.
Rome learned long ago that it's easier and more resourceful to simply co-opt and take over every entity it encountered instead of destroying it.
America isn't the most recent entity to be assimilated. Add the press, add the "evangelical" church, the internet, and every corporation. Etc.
"Washington, Murphy points out, has set aside $20 million for a "day of celebration" to mark eventual victory in Afghanistan and Iraq."
Another example of ridiculous thinking, and it is so on at least counts:
1. There can be no victory in either front no matter what the outcome.
2. Spending $20 million for any sort of party, let alone this one, is undeniably lower than absurd.
3. This "celebration" will bear the unremovable stench of hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.
The US regime is filled with people who are desperate to make themselves feel good about their insane actions.
America had it's time and blew it. The 21st Century belongs to China.
Skip Murphy's book. It's faddist. Read Gibbon instead; better for your head, better for your heart...and you'll learn that Rome fell as a result of only two things: barbarians and christians. Hip-hop before mass, anyone?
Canuckchuck, Shelly well chosen here -- although not a sonnet, how about this:
Fortress of Arrogance,
I've seen the nature of your game.
I see: rows and rows of concrete bricks
piled up in walls many meters thick.
I see: miles and miles of chain-link fence
electronic and high-tech defese.
Yes, I do.
Fortress of Arrogance,
I've seen the quality of your shame.
I see: hours on end of poisoned dreams
emanating from glowing screens.
I see: Banks of Illusion, modified souls,
garbage exchanged for the purest of gold.
Yes, I do.
Fortress of Arrogance,
I've got your number and your name.
I see: excrement screamers, oceans of fleas,
plagues of black locusts and scabs on the knees.
I see: beans in the out house, jam in the jar
and, yes, I see Madam in her Fat Car.
Yes, I do.
Fortress of Arrogance,
I've seen you going down in flames.
She thinks she's so holy, but that's just a lie,
like all of her lovers she too will soon die,
in the space of an hour, on one wicked day --
all is wasted away.
Yes, it's true.
Why the need to read? Don't we know from our own experiences that the conditions under which we live and the country we thought we knew twenty years ago is past, never to be experienced again? I would be a fool to say "we are not like Rome", or to imply as one blogger has, that the catholic church is the big bad wolf. The problem with us in the US is that no matter what we do, short of a revolutionary paradigm shift in how we live our lives, the bad guys, i.e., international corporate powers, the nationalistic press, and other organizations that we once thought of as benign, have us by the balls. But like global warming, change is happening with or without human help. This country was an invention of some very insightful people. Those brave people were not fools, and many died penniless. Today we have ceded power to the corporations and the rich, but eventually Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and his pals will die, they will die rich, but still they will die.
There lives will be portrayed as they should rightfully be portrayed as the destroyers of America. The billionaires will have their money, but will be left looking like the traitors and criminals that they are. History will not be kind to them, but so what? We have to decide what we need to trim this ship of state before it sinks. Bold ideas are needed, not history lessons.
What needs to be understood, is we lost our BEST chance to save the country many years ago. The world is waiting for the pieces of the US to settle so that they can become the new Rome. It is a cycle that may not be able to be changed! Maybe that is the problem, the religious kooks are waiting for a savior, they are no different today as they were 2000 years ago. The politicians are waiting for a savior too, but I don't see a group of people out their with the guts or the intelligence to re-make our country. We are waiting for a savior, and he is in the bar, doing exactly what we are doing, wondering how the hell things got to be this way over a beer!
Meanwhile here and now the policies and politicians of the US are being blasted by the world, while offering nothing better in return. China as a leader? They will implode as they have historically. Islam to take over?
Western man will not allow that either. So, what I am trying to say is we have nothing to do but wait. The American political and economic models are so close to death that the death rattle has begun. Who will step up to lead us when this happens? He's in the bar.
huckleberry: The apocaliptic vision and theory that right-wingers have in USA is caused or better it's used as a tool that benefits them, because of the fact that USA was founded with a capitalist-elitist catholic-baptist religious tradition. Most people in USA unfortunately are controlled by the cults of capitalist-baptist churches which are very harsh and fundamentallists, they are like cults and sects, like David Koresh of Waco, Texas. Unfortunately a whole nation brainwashed by the cult of 'Southern Baptist' and elitist-protestant churches is very hard to come to rational conclusions. I mean this is why it is very hard, almost impossible to talk about Karl Marx, or Noam Chomsky with an average american, because most americans out there, most people out there have like a sort of shield in their heads, the shield of cultism, and baptist religion which blocks them from any rational and evidende-based thinking. And you know Karl Marx, and Chomsky were/are evidence-based theorists, as opposed to the average 'southern baptist' world-view which is based on cultism, adoration of pastors, faith, (faith and authority-based) etc.
Is that a fiddle I hear...being played behind marble columns?
Enough of paralells. America needs riots. Lots of them!
'Clogs to clogs in three generations.' The first of the family, wearing the clog, the wooden shoe, of the poor person, by self-denial, skill, good luck, or unethical conduct, founds the fortune. His heir, brought up in the working world, maintains the fortune. The grandchild, never having lacked for anything except strong parental guidance, squanders it, and is reduced to clogs.
The lifecycle of empires parallels that of family fortunes.
fazzbot: you have excellent points, but I would say two things -
(1) there are MANY, and I DO mean MANY days I feel EXACTLY like you do. "What needs to be understood, is we lost our BEST chance to save the country many years ago," and "So, what I am trying to say is we have nothing to do but wait. The American political and economic models are so close to death that the death rattle has begun."
(2) And yet, I think, at other times, had we thought like that back THEN, wiht HITLER, then HE would have won, then. Had we thought like THAT back then, with Mussolini, then HE would have won. Etc.
So, having lost our BEST chance means we should act like we've ALREADY lost our LAST chance? For that is what you are advocating.
I agree, our chances are EXTREMELY SLIM, but why not TAKE them INSTEAD of just rolling over and playing dead for them?
I urge you all to study Trotsky's transtional program, go here and study Trotsky's transitional program. These NEOCONS are real imperialists, what USA needs is a transitional program from Imperialism to democracy, but we must do it orderly, rationaly and scientifically, and who better than Trotsky, Marx and Lenin for that:
http://marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1938/tp/index.htm
The aristocracy just wants to keep getting theirs for as long as they can. No real long-term vision, no behavior that reflect how we are all tied together, rise and fall together, become corrupt, lazy, wasteful, gluttonous, careless together.
And yet the seed of a renewed consciousness remains. Perhaps it will be without "USA" the Empire (that loans itself to mindless sports chants). But it may, we hope, be a restart and refinement of our Constitution, our idealism.
War_Hater, You may be right about the big assteroid. Regardless of whether or when it happens, this is a fact - many powerful people believe in a similar outcome.
When the author and others comment on our leaders having no vision for the future, they are wrong. They have an apocolyptic vision of the future. The POWERS THAT BE are utilizing the time they have to feather their own fortresses. They cannot be bothered with laws and treaties.
Perhaps they have evidence of impending planetary collision and simply aren't telling.
Or perhaps St. Johns Revelation is enough evidence for them.
"even the demons believe, and tremble"
Agree and disagree with the Author:
American people have been conned and tortured (mentally) big time for decades on our **positive** influence and actions in our Foreign Policies and role in the WHOLE WORLD - no way we (oOur corporations, military and representatives) ever respected other cultures - they WERE not supposed to, although THEY WERE SELLING that concept - totally phony and un-american -- not a single relevant example and Ex-Im Bank NEVER asked repatriation of our money (tax) WE THE PEOPLE borrowed in good faith to a bunch of profiteers and bucaneers, disliked world wide and on various WANTED LIST (see Dr. Hon. Kissinger amongst an ARMY of others)...
We, as culture, had no KNOWLEDGE and CLUE on how to build what Romans did built and left there (Amphitheatres, Acqueducts, Temples, Roads, Major Civil Works for QUALITY OF LIFE improvement of the local population, anywhere includibng the GREAT BRITAIN)
We need to review the WE..from the People stand point - People has been conned by a Bunch of War Profiteers and Bucaneers with nno LOYALTY to NOWHERE - history is unequivocably CLEAR and reading that events and history can explain plenty
We need to recuperate our Greatness, seriously..no joke here -
History repeats.
O weakness of the Great!__O folly of the wise!
Where now the haughty Empire that was spread with such fond hope? ___Her very speech is dead.___Wordsworth
I see scenarios much worse.
The fall in this country will be much harder than any envisioned. We're a nation of Paris Hilton's and Paris Hilton wannabes. We scream when we go to the market and it's out of our brand of whatever it is we want. We've had a couple of generations to forget what it was like during the Great Depression. The generations that followed arguably are the most pampered the world has ever seen.
When the fall comes, and it's already started, it won't be pretty. The combination of rage, fear, shortages and guns will turn this country into Baghdad on steroids.
Afraid you are correct Common sense. It will not be pretty and in additon to anarchy aavross the country, there will be millions of men pouring across our southern border carring AK-47s and RPGs. We will pollute the rivers with blood. Ours and our childrens.
We just do not wish to believe it could possibly happen in America. Another term for paranoia,___ is reality.
well, having the largest number of Mercenaries or modern days Centurions on our **off the book** payroll, is not going to help the Populace HERE, when they are kicked out from THERE - Where do you think they are going to be USED for a BIG BAG OF BUCKS -- Katerina was a visible event when this US ARMY old timer Gen Baptiste, yelled to THESE NEW PRETORIAN to keep their weapons down...and behave..too little and too late, with NOSFERATUS **doing a great Job in ABSENTIA..** as Homeland Security, I am not inspired by this SICK face and MONO-TONE voice - RECITING all he HAS BEEN TOLD to say
At least Rome had the Praetorian Guard that would ,from time to time, get rid of crazies like Caligula. Here ,the Praetorian Guard ( Congress perhaps) is too scared to lift even a finger.Or is it complicit.
Either way its fulfilling the destiny ordained for it : as a mute ,craven bystander.
What stands the best chance of succeeding in wiping out the entire Western Empire ( and the rest ) is Global Warming, that bears down on us relentlessly . Just waiting to unleash its full fury.
Not all our nukes -nor all our wealth - can prevail over it.In fact paradoxically these only serve to build up its fury.
aabbcc July 3rd, 2007 7:23 pm
Well said....no doubt about it....
Many years ago I had a most vivid dream. A tall man in flowing robes and I were walking along this dusty rocky road, neither speaking, just walking and observeing. To our left was a big snarling black dog similar to those used by the Roman Legions to guard the perimiters of their compounds. This dog was behind a chainlink fence, his job I ascertained was protecting the beautiful gleaming city that could be seen in the distant, the sun reflecting off its golden domes.
My robed companion and I continued our stroll along the road to the end. We turned about and headed back to our starting point. Along the return, I noticed that the beautiful city was decayed and ruined, further along, I noticed a gaping hole in the chain link fence, the guard dog was gone.
That's all their was to it, but at times like these, when I see gaps in our national defences while our leaders are concentrating on international, and I see brieches being made in our constitutional fortress, a direct attack on our civil liberties, this dream resurfaces. We are the guardians that hold leash upon the dogs? When we relinquish the dogs without oversight, the first time their is a briech, (9\11)?,the dogs go chaseing after the assailent, while the homeland remains virtually defenseless. Our depleted national guard units can barely cover disasters at home (hurricane Katrina)while being diverted to some international policeing action. Make no mistake about it, while our attentions are being diverted, our national fence in being "DE-FENCED", right out of existance. Beware the slight of hand. It is always better to mend the briech and maintain a steady vigilance, than to go chasing after the ever elusive thief. LM
I should get this book.
Inequality will not only be the death of America, but civilization as a whole. I just pray that we band together before it is too late.
It seems as if the older I get, the more dire things seem to get. And most people are either too distracted, sedated, or just beaten down to rise up and stop it.
Russ said,"2. Spending $20 million for any sort of party, let alone this one, is undeniably lower than absurd."
Your right Russ, but it wouldn't surprise me none. The Republican Congress during the Clinton administration paid millions for Bill's bj. Something that Monica gave away for free.
I think there are many parallels in history to describe what is happening in the U.S., the thousand year Reich comes to mind. And the Fall of Rome analogy may have some likeness but it reminds me that the Conservatives of the 60s were using the fall of Rome scenario stating that the first signs of the ship sinking was when the Romans took precious metals out of their coinage which was happening in the U.S. (first gold was even outlawed for U.S. citizens to hold other than Collectors coins and then silver in about 1964) so that was the first parallel. The second was the normalization of homosexuality and of course the Gays were pressing for some kind of normal existence starting in the 60s. My point is historical analogies are seldom accurate enough to make life altering decision bye and any fool can find a parallel to prove a point.
Stop all of this needless worrying! Can`t you see that Bush and Cheney were appointed by God himself and he is working closly with our dear president to bring about the biblical apocalypse that we are looking for. So in reality Bush and company are trying to make everything better for all of us ungrateful wretches. Just be sure you get born again in time to benefit from it all. See how simple it is and don`t sweat the small stuff like the national debt, health insurance, war,education, and other trivialities.
Fazzbot:
"The American political and economic models are so close to death that the death rattle has begun. Who will step up to lead us when this happens?" Why do I care? Multitude of leaders will fill the vacuum as they always did during the structural collapse. Lenin thought that his political life is over just few month before he became a, and then the, leader of the most profound Revolution. The good news is that we may witness our ill fated Empire go down not with bang, but with hissing wimp, as Soviet Union did, when she spent all her spiritual force.
Nations, as well as people do not live by bread alone; nations only much more so. Our men have too much macho and too little manliness; and too many people confuse former with the later.
Immediately after Revolution Americans undertook Faustian gamble and sold their souls for Mammon rather than Knowledge. Their predecessors, Romans, also converted their virtues a la Muzio Scevola into business of looting very early on in their history. But why to go that far into past?
Muse Clio has a lot of surprises in her sleeve; our duties are to be prepared. Be prepared, always prepared.
Being prepared means:
1. Protect oneself against illusions and all hopes for yet another Savior, the most debilitating delusion of them all. Read Edward Gibbon vision of Christianity.
2. Stop being eclectic; organize your thoughts around some ideology most fitting to reality but in local sense, but on much wider scope in space and time.
3. Find likeminded people who are open minded enough to review critically the history lessons; organized discussion clubs a la reading clubs.
4. Work with younger generation and help them to look closely at our land of plenty purposelessly drifting to nihilism.
5. Organize; organize; organize outside of box. Stop even thinking of 'taking back America'. There is very little unspoiled in that myth.
6. Stop being an American patriot inside thyself first; becoming world patriot outside thyself will come easier.
7. Never lose hope to see by yourself the time, when sky will be filled with diamonds.
Amen.
I recently finished Joseph Tainter´s ¨The Collapse of Complex Societies¨ which does argue that Rome fell, though the eastern half didn´t fall as hard as the west.
Gywnn says: ¨Let's hope he's right because the price for Rome's decline and fall was paid by everyone, not just the Romans themselves.¨
Tainter has a different take on the issue. Collapse is due to diminishing marginal returns - over time, investment in complexity, how societies solve problems, pays off in smaller and smaller benefits. Eventually collapse ensues as further investment becomes pointless or even yields negative results. Now collapse can be a difficult time, especially for the wealthy, but it does have the benefit of restoring a healthy balance in marginal returns, making investment in complexity once again economically attractive.
The Rome/USA Empire analogy has already been covered. Murphy's book is just more grist for the mill. If you want to read what came before, there is "The Coming Caesars" by the French historian/futurist, Amuary de Riencourt, published in 1957, and Senator Robert Byrd's, "The Senate of the Roman Republic" (2001).
The so-called collapse of the Roman Empire was caused by many factors. One of the strongest reasons was that the reach of the empire stretched too far, and it couldn't control its borders. The Roman army had trained the "friendly" tribes (citizens all) to use the technologically and strategically more advanced Roman fighting methods to help maintain the borders, but it got into these tribal leader's heads that they should use this knowledge to secure their independence from Rome.
If we must consider a Rome-USA analogy, then Bush's ascendancy to the presidency paralleled the Roman emperor Caracalla's ascendancy to the throne (after the death of his emperor-father, and after killing his brother). Caracalla was particularly noted as being detested by his armies. After Caracalla's assassination by a soldier in 217, he was followed with Rome's first "Moorish" emperor, Macrinus, who sued for peace and tried to reconcile and clean up all the damage done by the Severan family. He survived one year before he was overthrown and executed. And then came Elagabulas (some say worse than Caligula), another Severan family member, who proclaimed himself as the sun god. By this time, Rome was entering into what was called its "Crisis" period.
I hope these simplistic analogies don't repeat themselves.
I think the only reason Bush hasn't, like Caligula, made his horse a senator is that most of the Senators already resemble one end of a horse.
Haven't read the article yet, but will respond to the headline now. To me it insinuates that America is similar to Rome under Nero - I disagree, gw friken fraken bush is not a true rep of all Americans! Not by a long shot!
bush may be more then willing to destroy the United States, but we "the people" are not swilling his "wine" - If he wants to see another "tea party" there are millions who would willingly participate!!
I'm sick of all of us being included in bush's "direction" for America - we have had no input - but we are ready to pounce!!
Most of Rome was corrupt when Nero helped destroy it, and willingly helped - but the majority of "we the people" are not corrupt and will not allow this ass to burn us down !!
"The consequence was that collectivity was hollowed out." We read of caesar and cicero but not of the ordinary tomicus, dickius and harryattus! Ah the glory that was rome...stayed at the top. The average roman's way of life became bread and circuses... feelings of entitlement amid the daily difficulties of staying alive. When the rich do not pay taxes, everyone else has to. It wasn't enough. The economic state of the non-rich majority in the late empire was often dire. The roman yoke had turned inwards and the economic system proved a heavy burden on the lower class. They say the Roman republic - the Empire - fell but actually the Roman corporation went bankrupt. The wealth was glorious at the top but at the citizen level life did not inspire loyalty to the empire any longer. Sometimes when the barbarians invaded they were welcomed by the local citizens of the empire as liberators from the oppression of their own empire. The roman yoke which had been imposed on conquered peoples had turned inwards once the empire reached it's limits. And while the rich built baths and monuments, taxes paid government salaries and fed the huge costs of the legions. When a system allows the wealthiest to escape the same burden and proportional cost as experienced by everyone, that system declined. You can do that starve the beast agenda of the repubs and 'cut taxes' for the rich ...but what if the beast you starve... is your own horse?
I read 'Empire of Debt' by Bonner and Wiggin. It suggested that due to its many debts, america will eventually devalue the dollar, making most Americans citizens of a third world country. I believe that the attempt to keep this from happening is driving our military involvement in the Middle East. If the U.S. is an enforcer in the Middle East, we can insist that MidEast oil still be sold in dollars, supporting a currency that increasingly is seen as overvalued in the rest of the world.
I think that, eventually, the MidEast WILL fall. That means that despite American military support, the House of Saud and secular dictators like Mubarak and Musharraf will fall to internal religious pressures (which themselves will eventually fall to more democratic secularist movements). Before this happens, these regimes will no longer want to sell oil in dollars, but in more stable currencies like Euros (would YOU sell oil in dollars, knowing it had lost 30% of its value against the euro in the last 5 years?). When that happens, the rug will be pulled out from under the dollar and THAT, along with our huge debts and trade deficits, will require a much more severe acknowledgement of the dollars true value than what has occurred to present: the dollar will truly devalue.
That's how this particular empire will fall. It'll just fade away, its citizens not particularly well-valued on the world stage. Of course, I believe our democracy will remain intact and we'll hobble into the future, hopefully with a military more contracted to serve the ACTUAL defense needs of this once and future king among nations.
It's important to realize that, for today, the REAL neocons are global enough to be getting out of dollars NOW. Their future is secure, and they can wait out the nearterm bankrupcy of America and ride high on her eventual return to the world stage. Mission Accomplished!
No, worries:
First, a huge astroid will hit Earth in 2012, China will invade Tiawan that same year, and Iran will start a nuclear war by launching a nuke at New York City.
The New Rome will fall, but so will the world.
these comparisons w/rome are mostly silly. "rome had mercenaries...we have mercenaries..." etc, etc. studying history is important b/c it distances us from our own language & preconceptions about the world. but the differences b/n rome and the u.s. on many, many levels are vast.
Leaderless Democrats
By taking Impeachment "off the table," Pelosi and Reid have forfeited their right to "leadership" of the Democratic party. Stopping the Cheney/Bush criminal regime in it's tracks is imperative, and no other issue confronting America is greater than stopping the Almighty Republican Establishment's national and international crime spree.
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality--judiciously, as you will--we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." Quote by an anonymous Republican.
That quote exactly describes the situation today, for tomorrow, and for the last six years. You can't stop a national and international crime wave while allowing the criminals responsible for the crime wave free-reign to continue committing crimes. Republicans are burying us alive under a mountain of corruption that's getting bigger every day.
Demand that Pelosi and Reid step down and relinquish control of congress. They are either unable to understand that stopping a crime wave requires that you stop the criminals, or they are complicit in the corruption.
Leaderless Democrats can't win the 2008 presidential elections, and leaders who fail to lead won't be reelected either. We "little" democrats might not be able to punish Republican criminals, but we damn sure can punish incompetent, or suspiciously enabling Democratic "leaders."
Impeach, or we'll stay home on election day.
It's beginning to look that maybe the only way to crush the greater of two evils is to abandon the lesser evil. After that, Republicans will crash and burn a surely as the sun will rise tomorrow.
No pain, no gain.
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Hello all: Don't sound pessimists. In fact it is the opposite. The current US crisis is good, it's real good, because it will bring about a change of system. I mean i prefer all this that is happening than a peaceful situation without any change, we have to be optimists, instead of pessimists. A revolutionary cannot be pessimist. Like Che Guevara said: "Don't think that nothing is impossible in this life"
Chavez suggests all people to study Trotsky to combat global elite and NWO. The only antidote to NWO and Global-Fascism is the good medicine of Marxism !!
Observer, you say the sky will be filled with diamonds. It already is__ only the diamonds are microscopic specks of depleted uranium.
We have already expended HUNDRED OF TONS of DU in the Mid-East and are still using it daily. A war with Iran will finish the game Bush and his dad started.__ GAME?__ Bad game.
The clues of what the DU is doing to ALL life on Earth are clearly obvious, bird populations have suffered a DRAMATIC decrease in just the past eighteen months. When the birds fall over in mines, the miners run. The birds are falling over in the sky and there is no place to run to. Go to Google and ask for depleted uranium, read what the world's most renouned scientists are telling us about DU. Then ask Bush, he has killed the story. Of course, he's God's messenger and he knows what is best for all of mankind.
This is a most serious issue___ check it out, please don't accept my writing as gospel, see what the real experts write. Every person living in Iraq and any who have been to Iraq are dead man walking, some in five years, some in as long as thirty. The clues are obvious.
The world might be better off if America VERY QUICKLY stopped interfering in the Middle East especially, but in all the world, with our incredibly insane belief that military might will create peace and that spending almost $700 billion a year on weaponry and killing is what it takes.
If we have to go broke for a decade or two to force this change, it would be worth it. Leaders with outlooks like those of Kofi Annan, Gandhi and King might then be listened to. Because we could no longer afford to bully our way into cultures we neither understand or respect and fortunately had chosen these new leaders, we might develop a sane foreign policy based on respect for ourselves and others.
The trouble with the fall of this "New Roman Empire" is that it will take the rest of the world with it.