MetalDog: I wouldn't put anything past these sociopath. Remember, the same Republican Party thought Iraq was very lucrative and thought and told us that the war would be over in 3 to 6 weeks. They could miscalculate this time too.
Besides, when there is a martial law, nobody would dare to come out and risk his life. So that would be the end of the one-day demonstration and the blocking of the Wall Street. Let's assume some are bold enough to come out to demonstrate. The first few will be shot dead, and the government would announce that they killed some dangerous terrorists who tried to blah, blah, blah… No government in power is ever going to resign because people say so. Show me just one example and I'll eat my hat, even though I'm not hungry now. Hell, this government didn't even stop the war even though 2/3 of the people are against it.
Also, killing is no problem for them either. They have killed millions in their wars, and they may kill some more if they strike Iran with nukes. It is precisely bush's low popularity that would make him take irrational actions, since he hasn't got much to lose.

Saila: I don't accept that hypothetical scenario as realistic. I wouldn't have ruled it impossible 2 or 3 years ago, but Bush's popularity isn't what it once was, and ordering Americans shot for blocking traffic seems wildly far-fetched to me.

I've been seeing a surge in very sincere comments from people who also seem to believe that Bush will simply suspend the '08 election and declare martial law, and I put your comment in the same category of hysterical balderdash.

Granted, there are many things this administration has done that I'd have thought absurd if similarly predicted, however what you propose would surely be the end of the Republican Party, which is far too lucrative a tool to allow it to self-destruct in a fashion so overtly totalitarian. Allowing civilians to die through incompetence and neglect? Sure--that comes naturally to these sociopaths. But shooting them in cold blood in the streets of our biggest cities? No way. That would surely be the start of a new American civil war, and the sociopathic right may be delusional and criminally insane, but not so stupid not to know who would emerge from that bloodbath victorious.

MetalDog:
Assuming you can do your peaceful revolution one day and close down the Wall Street, do you know what happens the next day? I don't think you've ever lived in a dictatorship. The next day Bush will declare a state of emergency with martial law and orders to shoot to kill. Are you going to be on the streets that day? If you are, you best bring your gun. And if you do that, that's called a revolution in which a lot of people may get hurt or killed.

First off -- Soeharto: I'd like to be your pen pal. If you're amenable to that, my email address is dave (at) followed by my handle here, followed by (dot) net.

Revolution -- yes. A violent one? No. Not for me.

As much as I'd like to see Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al hanged for treason (or at least read about it), I don't believe that violence is a necessary component of revolution any more than I believe it's necessary to become terrorists in order to defeat terrorists.

I previously attempted to solicit comments about a peaceful potential solution, but generated no discussion. I'll try once more: what if millions peacefully, albeit illegally, shut down D.C. with one singular demand: the resignations of Bush and Cheney? By 'shut down' I'm essentially talking about blocking traffic, both motor and pedestrian. Sure, there'd be a lot of people jailed, but what if more people stepped in and took their places? There aren't enough cells to hold everybody. What if the shutdown were simultaneous in D.C. AND Wall Street? Certainly there would be SOME effect, no?

One of the biggest problems with mass demonstrations in recent years has been the multitude of mixed messages that enable the mass media to pretend that there is no cohesive message among demonstrators. Often, they're somewhat right. So what if the message were simple, clear, and shared by all: We are staying until Bush and Cheney resign.

My question isn't so much whether it would work, but how could it not? Slowing the gears of commerce would instill the motivation for change where it matters the most, ie in the captains of industry who pull the strings of the puppets of power in Washington.

I'm hoping this thread goes on. I've been reading it the past 2 days, and am just now contributing something. Whew, it's heady reading for me, but also exciting. I have serious (and newfound) respect for the readers of Common Dreams.

I have concluded that the basic bottom line here is that the USA is full of shit, and only violent revolution will remedy its disastrous course.

So ... are we ready for a revolution? I am. What do we do from here?

Aymon: After posting on a different thread that your input to this site was an experiment, and you were leaving, I felt sad. I'm glad you feel compelled to continue sharing your particular breed of insights.

Soeharto and aymon:
I understand your outrage with the tone and substance of many a post on this site. I also understand your rejection of any compromise with those who, no matter how remotely, are responsible for gross crime, injustice and violence, of which Iraq is but tiny part. Being an expatriate myself, first in Siberia and then in the US, I felt the same outrage about my countrymen responsible for invasion in Prague in 1968 and then Afghanistan in 1979 and now in Iraq. I did not wash my hands for I was part of it, first as a Soviet citizen and now as American.
You are absolutely right about Americanism, which is but particular flavor of generic qualities such as hucksterism, jingoism, nationalism, exceptionalism &c, as a core problem to positive change. But be aware that your high moral grounds may one day be seen for what it is – jumping sinking ship. There is nothing wrong in jumping ship; I did it myself along with multitudes. But you cannot recommend the whole nation to jump ship, especially now.

So, calm down, you already achieve a great feat: few freaking years ago you would not have such a reception. And this is only beginning. To part with motherland is not easy; to part with the very conception of motherland is way more difficult. This discussion clearly shows that ice is breaking. To count number of participants of this site or number of such sites is meaningless. The power of geometrical progression in dissemination of ideas cannot be overestimated. Most powerful fires start from but single spark.

I also thank you for softening your position on follower of Mr. Gurdjieff. Let his ghost rest.

jazzara said on July 1, 1:10am:

"Re-enlightenment won't happen in the USA, probably. But I can't imagine that things are, or will be, much better in Indonesia, anytime soon — despite your presence there."

There, see, your "Americanism" is showing radioactively to every non American intellectual who can cut through your badly mixed up hermenutics, Dawkinsian bio-evolutionary determinsm and other verbiage.

AMERICANISM? - - The callous, narcistic inability (because of profound ignorance of other cultures and peoples in the world)to realise that, perhaps, America was instrumental in the the past depredations (in Indonesia in this case) of thugs and dictators that were put in power by America to follow the "American Way"; and that such nations' and peoples' past and current plight is trying to undo all that damage done in your name. Probably you have never read about Ronald Reagan's friend Suharto, ex-vicious dictator a la Pinochet of Chile, whom your banks lent about $50 billion as a personal loan, which he never paid back. Now that personal debt by your own gangster is a national debt on Indonesia imposed by the "World Bank".

Soeharto, the good hearted Brit, an NGO, is probably there to undo as much of this burden on the poor in Indonesia. Yet you mock and insult his all too human and small service as incapable of making "things better . . .anytime soon" all by himself in Indonesia. Maybe if had $50 billion he could.

I did not want to participate in this thread but I could not sit back and see Soeharto take all that silly, childish condenscension from you and some others, perhaps done unconsciously - - that is part of the Americanism package ingrained in you since childhood (your own specifically American faulty wiring, not shared by other humans).

Yes, many of us have read Gurdjieff, a pretty good product of the hermenutic school of Ricouer and others in Europe. But as an Easterner, I don't find much of that verbal gymanstic enlightening at all. Perhaps you should read IBN KHALDUN, or RUMI, or LAO TSE, yes?

Ok, my apologies, jazzara. Your condescension was subconscious then. I assumed it was conscious. You suggested that your own home-grown diatribe against the state of your nation was part of, as you put it, "Americans [being] at a cognitive crossroads." However, I'd launched a similar diatribe in an earlier post which you described as the letting off of "...almost-irrational steam."

As for 'progressives' staying the course: I have bailed out from my own despicable little country (U.K.), and I am scratching a living trying to make a difference in a place where it is at least possible. That was met with, "...I can't imagine that things are, or will be, much better in Indonesia, anytime soon — despite your presence there." Meanwhile, you yourself are forsaking the option of emigration in the hope that you can do something for the greater good of the USA. Well, that puts me in my place. You're pretty prickly, you know, for a comerade seeking "comity/solidarity"!

However, I must relent. You are clearly a woman (or man perhaps) of refinement. Whereas I am just being pugnacious, to no great effect. Your voice is a shrewd one and your posts, like many here, are very interesting. I will desist.

You hope for "...cognitive change in the US, sans collapse of the basic civil order." This is the crux. It's going to be collapse. You know it in your heart. Pyramid schemes always collapse. In the U.S.'s case it's going to be messy. Worse than the Spanish Flu of 1919 I reckon (a, er... pyramid scheme of sorts... I meant the death toll though). I am 43, so I reckon I will be near enough popping my clogs when the crunch comes. My two kids will live in interesting times. And, tragically, the Cheneys of this world - or their kindred spirits - will come out on top. His side has an extraordinary propensity for violence (e.g. 3,000,000 dead preventing Vietnamese self-determination) and yet 'progressives' never even discuss the malodorous possibility that violence might be necessary if there is ever to be justice or the establishment of a sustainable model. 'Progressives' don't even discuss it. And that's why you will lose. The Cheneys of this world talk about violence and lethal enforcement all the time. That's why they will win.

Brit-in-Indonesia:

No, I don't know that my post 'drips with condescension' -- but if you sense such behind my words/framing of isssues, you speak too much other truth for me to just dismiss your perception.

As an American, I live-in, and have grown-up in, a sick perceptual milieu, and would like to think that because I can (at least) see that fact, I've therefore extirpated all major cognitive-oversight blinders a globally politically-conscious person would need to.

But some other part of cognition knows that that assumption is dicey; likely a self-deception; must be put to tests via-a-vis other heads, ongoingly.

At any rate, I've no conscious motive to save "Americanism, either for 'my country' or for my day-to-day concourse with the people who share this part of Earth with me. What I'm trying to do is preserve options that allow for cognitive change in the US, sans collapse of the basic civil order.

But I hear what you've said; all I can do is search deeper. I have some awareness about it easy it is to assume one isn't also-hypnotized just because one talks about other people's more-obvious hypnosis.

Regards.
JA

All of you, Re soeharto

Why the hell is everybody asking soeharto's advice as to what to do? I'll tell you what to do: God damn it, you messed it up, you clean it up. That's what you do.

I agree with soeharto, and it's damn obvious that he's not talking about the kind of guys who post on this site. So don't get all excited and defensive.

But you guys are in minority. How many Americans log on CommonDrteams? 100? 200? 500? And how many sites similar to this one are there? 5? 10, 20? Multiply the numbers and you can see that you're just a drop in the bucket. soeharto is talking about the rest of the bucket.

jazzara wrote:
"If you can't adddress the deeper problems of human irrationality with insigful solutions, consider the possibility that your criticisms are not so much functional reproofs of (an admittedly-pathetic) America"

I am explicitly proposing that bringing down Americanism is the solution. People who post here, by and large, see Americanism as, at the very least, a neutral thing - temporarily distorted. More likely they see Americanism as positive, and a template for the world. To outsiders, Americanism is like the diseases that the Spanish brought to South America.

It's the rampant Americanism of the people living in the USA that legitimizes and empowers political operatives like Richard Cheney. You should be talking about how to defeat Americanism and replace it with healthier and more positive values.

Getting American progressives to discard Americanism is step 2 of any solution. Step 1 is getting them to even recognize Americanism for what it is. Judging by the the reactions on this message board, it can't be done. People are talking about "taking Americanism back" (my paraphrasing). Good heavens!

Instead you all witter on about his transgressions. It reminds me of people poring over sports scores.

And your post drips with condescension, my friend. As you well know. But that's ok, because my posts drip with exasperation and contempt.

John Ralston Saul's Voltaire's Bastards is a good read.

Soeharto -

I didn't accuse you of 'anti-Americanism' (hard for me to do that, since I'm as disgusted with my country's Beingness as you seem to be.)

And, since I can't square with state socialism, or politically-imposed ideological enlightenment systems, yet simultaneously dont' want my country to die an idiot's death w/o rescue efforts, I may have nothing usefull to say to you, after this.

My suggestion that you re-take stock of humanity's general unconsciousness (vis-a-vis Gurdjieff) wasn't meant condescendingly, in any case.

That suggestion was only meant to tell you: Your criticisms demand, by implication, that Americans be as conscious & virtuous as our commensurate (however historically-momentary) power would require, in a yet-to-be, more-conscious enworldment.

But your criticisms, however accurate, beg solutions to earlier-mentioned, general human problems of sloth, monstrousness, and self-satisfied unconsciousness that typically accelerate with undeserved power; human condition problems that you've yet to offer reasonalbe corrective suggestions to.....

If you can't adddress the deeper problems of human irrationality with insigful solutions, consider the possibility that your criticisms are not so much functional reproofs of (an admittedly-pathetic) America, as they are your personal agony at the tragedy of general human unconsciousness, enlivened by its historically-momentary super-empowerment, just now in the form of the USA.

Imperial Rome and other empires in history became similarly cognitively deficient; fatally self-unconsious; murderous, as the US has become, and imploded thereby. So the the outrages you rightly criticize America for, are nevetheless hardly historically-unique to America.

Such a fall will happen to my country, too, like all the other cognitively-corrupt societies of history, unless we Americans see ourselves (and our mentally-ill culture) more honestly, and take corrections, while there's still time.

I say 'we' only conversationally, since I don't knowingly participate in the recycling of mindless American cant with my neighbors & 'fellow citizens.

Some of us have been trying to un-hypnotize our fellows, hereabout - adequately enough to allow the possibility of renewed mass-cognition.

But, in the end, I don't think we few will be able to overcome the deeply entrenched patterns of self-destuctive auto-pilot behavior, endlessly reinforced by a masqued epistemoligical entrainment that further-masks an existential rigidity akin to a collective death-wish.

Nevertheless, and meanwhile, some of us continue trying to do what we can - maybe only as alternative to migration or as self-protection against in-situ emotional breakdown.

Then, too: Us dissnters' awareness that the the illness of US culture is spreading to the far corners of the planet - in the name of 'prosperity,' -- makes some of us feel we're morally obliged to stay here and try to fight our culturally-poisonous beast from within.

Re-enlightenment won't happen in the USA, probably. But I can't imagine that things are, or will be, much better in Indonesia, anytime soon -- despite your presence there.

If I'm wrong about this, please tell me why you think otherwise.

JA/Missoula, MT/USA

fargokantrowitz wrote:
"one more for soeheto, i guess. well, i don't know if you're american or not. i don't think you are. don't want to make this personal. but you criticize us as though we are all personally responsible for the bullshit this administration is piling on to the world. Did you feel the same way about America when Clinton was in office?"

Of course! Goodness me. Do you really assume that non-Americans gaze at your collective navel in the same way as you do? The shades of difference between the "left" and "right" in your oligopoly are ludicrous.

jazzara asserts that my anti-Americanism is "almost irrational" and suggests I read a book or two. Cheers for that.

Yes, of course I am anti-American. Just as we are incessently told that dandruff will reduce the amount of sexual intercourse we can engage in, we (caucasian non-Americans, mainly) are fed - ad nauseum - with the numb slogan that "we share the same values" and that anti-Americanism is "going too far".

Well I DON'T share your values. Sorry. You are a dangerous and militaristic people, self-obsessed, presumptious, glass-jawed, indifferent to the suffering of others, and you have deeply undemocratic instincts. I reject your values. Judging by almost every indicator I have seen, you, as a people, are breathtakingly insouciant about achieving high rates of literacy, or low rates of child mortality and so on and so on. Your 'American Dream' is a fraud (statistically speaking). I don't share it. Nor the twaddle about being "classless". Polls show that a vast majority of Americans are deeply sympathetic to Zionism. Not me. Very many of you are religious in a way that strikes me as borderline mentally ill. I can't help thinking of the Pharisees. And the merchants in the temple, for that matter. I reject the values attendant thereto. 90% of your TV & entertainment is either grotesque or mind-numbing. And DON'T tell me it's imposed on you. Advertisers don't pay top dollar while Americans 'wish for something better on TV'. Value after value, I assess it, and I find that I don't share it.

I am tired of being told that "we all share the same values." We don't. Look, sorry. I don't really mean to offend. Most of the people who post here are not the people I am talking about. That much is obvious.

fligloot wrote:
"...before you rant some more about our failings, let me point out that in 1944 I was stationed at Horsham St. Faith, near Norwich, whence I flew 35 missions over enemy territory to save your (or your parent's) ass. Yes, I was also helping to save OUR future freedom as well. But a tone that's little less snotty from you might be more effective in pointing out our many failings."

Yes, you have landed a blow with this one, fligloot. I feel a bit sheepish about hurting the feelings of someone who has endured what you have endured. I had three uncles who fought in WW2, one was a fighter pilot (shot down, they buried about 2 kgs of his flesh in northern France), another was squashed by his own side's tank in a Belgian town in 1940. The surviving uncle horrified me with his stories when I was a kid. And you Americans flew your bombers in the daytime! 35 of those white-knuckle rides? I am aghast. So, sorry to you fligloot, sincerely, if my angry words struck you as poisonous and dismissive of people of your generation.

And yet there are thin lines here and there and everywhere. You did what you had to do. And you find me snotty. If you had been born 20 years later, you would have been bombing Cambodia. And you probably would have still found me snotty.

Much good consciousness, here.

Imagine if we all lived close to each other; like in the same real-time neighborhood. Maybe then a critical-mass could ignite....

But that impossibility is the limitation and potentially-false promise of cyber-space, for now anyway.

So let's keep hammering at our real-time shopping-distrated neighbors/local fascist newspapers,etc., meanwhile.

Soeharto (a Brit living in Indonesia, he says) has got a good head & self-seeing spirit. He decently seeks comity/solidarity after blowing-off totally-understandable-though-almost-irrational steam.

Responses to him, here, have been comprehending; civi. That's good, too.

One thing I'd say to Soeharto, just now:

Consider reading or re-reading some kind of Human Overview thinker (Gurdjieff's not bad):

Refresh in your own head that: Human Beings Have An Inherent Design Flaw.

Human consciouness 'flakes' in-and-out-of focus - about ourselves and about our need to be decenct to others.

And even the most diligent/enlightened/well-meaning among us have to fight against this flaw, constantly.

It may be Human Nature to fight-for-Good (like the 1776 American Revolution)--but then we predictably fall asleep, and forget what the fight was about.

Moreover, we humans didn't design our own idiotic wiring - to make us thus-flawed.

(Complaining to "Jesus" about this is useless. More useless still: Not acknowledging the Design Flaw among ourselves...)

Nevertheless, and true enough: Americans, generally, (but especially, among all other cultures on present-Earth), have become fat, lazy, decadent, insensitive, murderous, self-blind & hypocritical - more so than at anytime in our past.

Americans are arguably now at a cognitive crossroads, where either we pretty quickly come-to-mindfullness, or we 'go-down' and likely injure humanity-at-large, in consequence, far worse than we may have, to date.

Americans now glibly/hypnotically, routinely elect the worst kind of human beings (sociopathic solipcists) - to "lead us."

We perversely wrap our doubled fallen-ness in emotionally-medicating claptrap about "Jesus" and "America's Promise," as half the world starves while we spend $9billon/yr on dog food.

American society has become intolerably debased in all-too-many ways; but we still have a decently-noble promise/premise buried in our not-entirely-bad history -- and in our revolutionary roots.

And many of us know this with increasing-intended corrective force.

I salute S's and anyone else's rightful rage over what America's become, and I share such rage, passionately - as we all do, here, even within our mutual, Nature-given cognitive design flaws.

S: We hope that you'll at least recognize that an increasing # of Americans are now working to wake-up themselves and fellow Americans, to what's happend to American society.

Such that there's at least some cause-for-hope that America won't utterly, mindlessly implode into its philosophical opposite.

(cf: Heraclitus' anciently-insightful concept of Enantiodromia.)

Anyone's exhorting of Americans toward higher consciousness/citizen-action reform, can only be 'right-on.'

'Outside' voices, like S's, are crucially-needed mirrors which even the most-activist of us Americans can never adequately construct for ourselves with accuracy.

As Robert Burns said: "O, that we could see ourselves as others do!"

Crooked as a dog's hind leg,
His desire, himself and friends to enrich.
Everyone else is free to go beg.
No one is safe from this Son of a B--ch!
Every person on Earth should shun this man.
Yellow clear through, he belongs in the can!

marctileston June 30th, 2007 9:38 am
terrific post. thanks for the insights. it is true, in my experience i've been living 'off the grid' all my adult life. if everyone did that, no car, no shopping at big supermarkets, only local stores, don't ever go big box store, don't watch television, listen to Free speech radio, recycle reuse, use farmer markets for produce. Man i'm a darned revolutionary. I mean how much can one person do, but if we all did that we'd starve those corporations. The only thing i buy from a corporation is books and records. hell i even put in solar cells on my roof so's i wouldn't have to buy from big power company.

one more for soeheto, i guess. well, i don't know if you're american or not. i don't think you are. don't want to make this personal. but you criticize us as though we are all personally responsible for the bullshit this administration is piling on to the world. Did you feel the same way about America when Clinton was in office? Did you have the exact same criticisms? GW Bush took over our country and turned it into a lethal monster against anybody who stood in its way. Republicans want power and they got it with GWBush. The Christians could all go to church thinking they lived in a Christian nation while their leaders actions were nothing but fuel for a highly satanic ideology. We citizens erupted in furor over the direction of this corporate theft of American democracy, but what could we do? Could we change everything? Revolution, you say! More dead. That's the way the world seems to work. Those in power create bullshit until people revolt and millions die in fruitless wars. Well, soeheto, if that's what you want from me, well, you can keep it. I'm not killing shit. In the meantime, we have to do what we can to stop, basically, the Republican party from killing the rest of the world in the name of the beloved savior Jesus. America is fed up with this right wing bullshit and maybe the left wing will get a chance. See, we have to wait four years before we can flush the bullshit out of the system. True, the system is so corrupted with money by now that it is getting harder and harder. But we are not ready to end this little experiment in America. Most of us are getting damned well ready to start it is what I say. You're right about the ugliness of capitalism though. My personal belief is that we need a worldwide corporate watchdog. Big business is practiced here in America, but don't blame me for that. The most I ever made in a year is $12,000. How bout you?

How to Take Cheney out

Hey folks, I've been thinking long and hard how to take Cheney out –--not gangsta style, but just take him out of the warmongering crowd---.

Listen and listen well. Does anybody know Cheney's cardiologist? If you do, ask him, at the point of an AK47 if you have to, to replace Cheney's pacemaker with a peacemaker. Hopefully, that'll do it.

Soeharto:
I know we're discussing the difficulties in the present-day world, but I seem to reacall from my high school history classes there used to be an entity referred to as The British Empire. I also remember that "Britannia Ruled" with an iron fist, conquering peoples far and wide, subjugating them to the will of the Empire. What did the ordinary Brits do about that? This is the problem with human beings, we do not learn from our past. We seem incapable of recognizing that constantly repeating the same mistakes gets us nowhere (or now here, which is today). So, instead of ranting about blame, why not try to discuss reasonable ideas for positive change. So, Soeharto, what should an individual American citizen do to rein in the global, fascist elite??

Surely this entire debacle about what laws pertain to what politician will spark a lively and much needed debate in congress and perhaps bring about some legislative changes. Those discussions could well even be "reported" by the MSM.

And surely, some of the remaining fools who support these criminals by virtue of ignorance, or even a sense of patriotism, will see the error of their ways and join the growing majority who see this mis-administration for who they really are. This does seem like good news and maybe it is.

The problem here is that there is little difference between 75% and 95% opposition for current policies/occupiers of the Whitehouse and Capital Hill if our voices are not to be listened to.

Some of the most serious of offenses may be viewed by the masses as out of line, and consequently get slight coverage by the MSM. As the powers that be realize that lest they report some of the truth, their own reputations as "fair and balanced" "news" organizations lose traction, it's the smaller, less evident crimes that are further separating us from our money and our freedoms.

While Americans seem to have the capacity to absorb the most absurd abuses of power, we seem unaware or unconcerned with the economic imbalance at home and throughout the world. Several posts here have eluded to the fact that information can be obtained with some scrutiny of the WWW and and the desire to know more. However, most Americans know that ignorance is bliss and choose not to know more. The MSM is fully aware of this and as such plays a large role in diverting America's attention from the truth with bullshit stories.

But until the majority comes to realize that their very existence is being bought and sold by the elite criminals of governments all over the world we can make very little progress. As long as we the people are content to toil away 50-60% of our lives in exchange for consumer goods (mostly unnecessary), yet have no time or capacity to nurture, or mentor, or participate in community affairs, or learn, or teach or share, we will fall further and further behind and become more and more oppressed.

Until we come to discover that we are all part of the human family, we will continue to segregate oursevles from groups who are different from us. This mental segregation allows us to tolerate inhumane practices, as long as they're directed at those other groups. Be they religious, nationalistic, sexually oriented, race, gender, or what have you, these labels are designed to keep us, as a society, from uniting against the elite who rule over us and dominate our time, space, resources and happiness.

Soeharto is so uneasy with us Americans because we have the power and the wealth at the moment, and are more inclined to accept the degradation of "others" because we are too comfortable with our own existence. Most Americans are unaware of the atrocities carried out in their name by their government but to the others we abuse and have abused for decades, there is no excuse for that ignorance. It is viewed correctly as indifference.

So, once the average American experiences some of the pain we have imposed on so many for so long, most recently Iraq, we may begin to look for answers. But unfortunatley, most of us are content to maintain our comfortable lives as brain dead consumers working 60 hours a week, losing touch with our families, values and laws, albeit aided by Xanax, Prozac, Lunesta or any other mind numbing substances big pharma can mass produce and sell us at a healthy profit.

Once we have come to the conclusion that our differences don't justify the indifference, then we can begin to attack the corporate slave owners of the world. We have all the leverage we need if only we can come together as a species. Not as a nation or as groups of progressives, or religions or revolutionaries. We must join with all people of the world to build a fair market that demands justice and truth.

Andrewsac is right on in saying we only need to deprive the corporate elite of our money. Our labor is necessary for these greedy bastards to continue to manipulate us. So is our income. We can and should build local supply chains, and force out the global companies who waste resources and labor transporting low quality goods to the end consumer from the areas where they can be produced the cheapest. It's all about the money folks, but even more importantly, it's about justice and equality for all.

I really hate to have to say this, but the truth is that nothing will happen here to derail the incipient tyranny we have now until it is too late. There will be a state-of-emergency and martial law declared here within the next decade, probably much less than that, following more terror attacks which will be more blowback from our misguided foreign policies. A financial panic will follow the declaration of the state-of-emergency. The attack may be allowed to happen as 9/11 was by a terrified ruling class looking for justification for its draconian measures. The American people are prostrate with apathy and incapable of the sort of mass organization which would be necessary to unseat the usurping powers. Go and see "Sicko" and not the distinction made between Americans and the French. We put up with all abuses while the French pour out into the streets in their millions and get action from their government. This country is TOO BIG, TOO DIVERSE, and has TOO MANY citizens with authoritarian personalities who are willing to take orders from fascist leaders.

andrewsac

"QUIT BUYING SH*T! " quote from andrew

Also buy things from organizations like Habitat for Humanity or Good Will (just adding on to your good ideas)

How does someone named Dick Hiney get elected Vice President anyway?

Mr Cheney has only done what one expects a smart criminal to do: Destroy all the evidence. So, what's all that fuss about?

"…Vice President Cheney claims he is exempt from the presidential orders requiring government-wide procedures to safeguard classified national security information…"

I bet that misinterpretation was the basis of his thinking when he outed that CIA woman spy.

On the basis of what he's been doing he might actually be congenitally exempt from having a moral, ethical, and honest brain.

"The Misunderestimated Mr. Cheney"

He's not an entity.
He's not an agency.
With strong propensity
For no sagacity,
He's a Vice with a twist;
He does not exist
To abide by the law
That rules over us all.
In order to reach him
We just need to impeach him.

6/29/07 lloyd marbet

It's a shame that Dick has dropped the bit about not being part of the executive because he is really part of the legislature. It would have been a great argument that if he is partly both of them, then he should be subject to both their rules. The legislature also has an agency that oversees the control of classified documents that could investigate him.

Did I miss it? Not a word about the World Trade Organization, that select club of megacorporations with membership by invitation only. Cheney, Bush, Blair and so many more are the products of a global power grab. Americans need to join together with progressives around the world in every nation to halt the deadly pillaging by this corporate power that incidiously infiltrates governments.

Great thread! Some smart people here.

cruxpuppy said:

"The problem with so many progressive activists is that they have no imagination for evil"

Exactamente. If we did, we would be conservatives. A great disadvantage that can be overcome fairly easily:

http://ni4d.us/

Impeachment Insurance

VP Cheney's shameless & unprecedented sellouts and abuses , which have raised calls for his impeachment, serve several purposes: They advance the administrations power through intimidation of congress; they benefit the many corporations, especially the energy cartel;
and they deflect impeachment motions away from the this president, who bears the real responsibility for these outrages.

These tactics have worked well---but only with help from a complacent and apathatic electorite.

Well, as usual, I'm likely the last to post a msg here, so also likely that few will read this. However, I'm compelled to jump into this excellend discussion.

In my humble view, after absorbing all the above commentary, it would seem that Planet Earth is ready for a World Council (sort of the U.N. with policing powers) who could step in and take charge of this upstart and illegal USA presidency. Ashamed, I am, to call myself an American. But I'm also one of those protesting baby boomers who saw the error of the ways of the powers that be and sought to be heard.

We were heard, all right, and our protests didn't go unnoticed. Ask anyone who attended Kent State...

Although Cindy Sheehan managed to assemble the masses (moms, mostly, who were also tired of burying their children, but, still--), I doubt that any one person could accomplish such a feat in an effort to overthrow the criminals currently in charge of our government. Grassroots efforts may make a stab at the cause, but it would fail. As someone said above, we Americans are ruled by our mortgages and the need to be at our jobs when the vacation days run out.

The USA has a great history of humanitarian aid around the world. But for the power of a few (ok, maybe only one with the brains) who saw an open door and strolled his agenda right through it, lugging his huge (man-sized) document safe with him, we common citizens are left with no power to stop the megalomaniacs from destroying the world as we know it.

Great discussion!
I also agree with many here that is has been a long, long fight from minority voice to majority opinion. I tried my best to be involved and vocal in the run-up to this crime, and was called a facist by my own family. Truth is one of those things that has a hard time going down, like bitter medicine. As one of my favorite quotes says, "everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts". It is the facts that get lost sometimes. People get scared, and scared people are easy to control. Add the dismal education system in this country when it comes to civics, and this was the inevitable result. Twenty-seven years of failed Reaganomics, supply-side economics, and screw-the-poor-because-they-are-thieves-anyway education through our schools, churches and media have done their dirty work. A culture that says that if you fail, it is because you have done something to bring it upon yourself does not breed a nation of radicals.
This idea that the masses rise up is a myth: the fight has always been won by the dedication and sacrifice of a few, for the benefit of many. A man or woman rises up to lead with vision and leadership, and is then cut down in the prime of life, shot dead by ONE PERSON to derail progress. True leadership is dangerous and rare, and we suffer through many a substitute teacher before another is born to take their place, born to stand and defend what most of us are too scared to defend with our lives. It is scary here, Soeharto, and many of us have children to raise and family to look after. We fear that if we lead the charge, those behind us will not follow, and we will be cut down alone, left to die as an example to the others. That is more true than you know. I guess I should feel kind of flattered: the idea that you believe that only a few of us would make the great powers in this country cower and change says something about how Americans are percieved outside our own country. Alas, our lances are but straws.
No one is monolithic here. There are women in this very country that would give up the vote for ALL women in a heartbeat, and racists who would reinstate slavery (and some would argue, still practice it, with under the table workers they care nothing about). Some of those people would do these and many other things without reading even one paragraph about the ramifications.
It is perhaps fitting that the Holocaust has been given a brief comparison here. During college, I read a book about the German machine during WWII. Although the Nazis were powerful, it was the day to day German citizen who made all that killing possible. Hard to believe that a lowly secretary gets blame for murdering so many, but without her small contribution, that office could not have run in the same way.
We all share the blame here. We also share the cost, and the job of cleaning it up. We'll get another chance at that in '08. Of course, we will get who THEY choose, but it is a start.
Here's one great, big, fat way to get corporations attention: QUIT BUYING SH*T! Stop buying stuff that gluts landfills and wastes resources. Buy only what you need, and buy only the best quality so it will last longer than one year. Can't afford it now? Don't buy it now. We are not entitled to live a certain way or have certain things. No more Mcmansions or fancy, gas guzzling f**k you mobiles. Add on or do without. This is a consumer driven economy, and we get the attention of Corporations by hitting the bottom line. Give up soda, candy, fast food and ANYTNING fried in oil and put on a stick: it's all crap anyway, and just feeds into the other Death Star, the Healthcare Industrial Complex here. Turn off the freaking' boob tube and mentor, or volunteer, or fundraise for someone you believe in. Preaching to the choir, I know, but there is always something that we can give up for the cause. If we are lucky, we will be healthier and happier in the process. And when they can't sell us tap water for a freakin' $1.00 per sip, it will be the corporations that change to fit our wants, not the other way around.

"Antonin G. Scalia, "arguably the Court's most colorful jurist today," has conspired with Richard B. Cheney the 46th Vice-President of the United
States of America to subvert the U. S. Constitution. The question now is not only about these " high crimes and misdemeanors," but moreover about a larger effort that includes other justices of the court and other members of the Bush administration, members of Congress, their staff and lobbyists. The on-going subversion of law, today has cost many their civil liberties and all the purse of the US government.

Today the evidence is now broad and conclusive; it is only for the magistrate and the people to file the charges in our courts, in our congress and in our local and state governments."

melvin dada:
The reports about Americans burning their draft cards was an eye opening event, which turned my life upside down. It would not occur to me that anybody would brave enough to do so. Patriotism is the last thing to die and I know it. I was a Soviet citizen at the time fed up with the hypocrisy of People's State the same way I am fed up with the hypocrisy of "We the People". But to deny draft card was against every fiber of manliness or so I thought. It took me years to digest the lessons of Americans' will to overcome millennia of indoctrination.
But it was another time, another generation the world over, and another zeitgeist I think. 60s were the best of the time and they were the worst of the time. They paved way to collapse of colonial system, but they also gave prosperity to sudden to digest. Americans and other First World people failed massively by the most severe trial – trail by abundance.

The good news that help is on the way from many unexpected corners: environmental "blowback" and dematerialization of "private property", that backbone of Capitalism American style. After landed overlords and industrial barons there came the turn of "intellectual proprietors", whose "rights" are impossible to enforce.
And on top of it comes the Holy Trinity of Liberté of access to knowledge, Égalité of A-bomb armed states and individuals, and Fraternité of Web community.
It is a ticking bomb for Plutocracy and they know it. Hence the anxiety of American owner class, who decided to get away with the mask of Republic.

Muse Clio will prove them wrong.

When I was in law school, my criminal law professor (a seemingly jaded, short, balding and slightly overweight fellow who used to smoke large, black Churchill cigars in class) used the following example to illustrate a sociopathic personality:

When asked why he stole the car, the "punk" replied: "Because I needed it."

This is the mindset of our Vice President....

The biggest obstacle to regaining citizen control of our government is campaign finance. As long as corporations can successfully underwrite elections we will have what we've got now; the best government money can buy. Just look at the war profiteering that Halliburton has been raking in. until campaigns are publicly financed we will get corporate-suck ups like Hillary Clinton, who just had a fundraiser sponsored by Rupert Murdoch, war cheerleader extraordinaire.

well said observer...

for what it's worth.... americans are pretty silent in the face of this onslaught, truthfully its pretty sad. It feels like Night of the Living Dead sometimes..Comforts, exhaustion, lack of community and making money, the latest gadgets or a coach bag or Pampering Salons are the thing. Celebrity is also an excellent diversion as is Sports. you know and i know and we are all guilty to some degree, we're bought out. Either that or support this thing. however..we marched for the end of the Vietnam war and we marched to not get into the Iraq War before it even began.. The march against a war that hadn't begun was larger by far than the Vietnam era protests.
.
There were by some estimates a million people in the streets in San Francisco and by accounts on the East Coast , similar crowds in NYCity. A million on the streets in one city! We were not listened to, ignored, marginalized by the media. The progressive wing of this American dialogue has been relegated to the corners of the internet but nary a peep in the mainstream media. We have been relegated to no voice in the main media for 30 years! This is the territory for right wing voices and neo conservatives and 'moderate' voices. And this is what most Americans watch. The other outlet is the AM radio dial and we all know who inhabits that piece of broadcast real estate. Far right wing zealots and chickenhawks. We've been effectively BLACKLISTED. The mcarthy blacklist has not ended, it is still very much alive today. And that my dear progressive friends is the sad truth and partially the reason for our current dilemma.

fligloot:
"OK, Soeharto, I agree that the US is guilty of many sins. But, before you rant some more about our failings, let me point out that in 1944 I was stationed at Horsham St. Faith, near Norwich, whence I flew 35 missions over enemy territory to save your (or your parent's) ass."
Very typical response indeed. And how many German divisions Mr. Fligloot and his buddies killed in the process? Who actually took off 80% of Wehrmacht to save fligloot's parent ass from Nazi dominated world?
I do not diminish great role of American economic power to help to vanquish the 3rd Reich, but to ask mercy in perpetuity from Britts and especially French seems to me law style indeed. I saw Stalingrad Plaza in Paris, whereas American schoolchildren sincerely believe that Americans did it alone fighting against Germans and ugly Russians.

It is very strange, but this lovely debate triggered by Soeharto indictment of American government along with American people, misses the point; or so it seems to me. Most posts discuss personal responsibility and some even direct question s to NGO hero from UK as what would he advise to do and how to inform dumb Americans, who vote kakistocracy into office. Typical response is: "Mis- and dis-information campaigns promulgated via the mass media are highly effective, nevertheless", followed by "Americans are willfully ignorant — too many Americans choose to stay uninformed because to be informed would be "too upsetting.""

The truth of course is that any talk about democracy, elections, writing to representatives, jamming phone- and email traffic with petitions &c &c is exactly what guardians of long dead order want us to believe and upon that false belief system; for talk is chip, while organizing is everything.

But mere organizing without all encompassing and holistic idea, as Marxism once was, is nothing but day dreaming. And the more we dream, the further we, as American citizens, moving from reality, rather than toward it. It seems so obvious that organized Capital may be opposed only by organized Labor, that only miracle can explain why American people are so oblivious to such a self-evident truth. In my humble opinion, the reason mainly lay that to-day labor is so much different from it muscular predecessor, which brought so much to what many of us call "good old days" and what MSM dismiss as socialist traitor to his class FDR.

There are good reasons for such self-indulgence of majority of American people: all potential ways – social-democratic, progressive, communist, anarchist and many others - to alter "Standard Economic Model" were bulldozed so thoroughly, that only Christian and Market Talibans may grow in their stead. One may argue that we have green, gay, lesbian, African-American, and thousand other movements for any particular cause, which do thrive in America. But what is about holistic part of the American Way?

So, instead, holistic and transcendent Way aimed on all humankind, America offers an individualistic surrogate, the American Dream about sweat home and personal monetary success with prevailing command, "Everyone for oneself and let all losers cry". That make George W Bush right in his assessment of terrorist motifs: "They hate us for what we are." How true it is and how much easier would it be if they hated us what for what we do!

How much easier to change our government than to change 200 years of post-revolutionary drift toward worshipping individual wealth, while ignoring Old World dictum nobles oblige. Well, the good news is that 67% of Americans feel that we are on the wrong track and we need U-turn. In political terminology U-turn is called Revolution with capital R, not la etter writing campaign.

If it's any comfort, folks, remember that Empires
always fail. And ours will fail faster than the
Roman or British...as fewer volunteers sign up
to be i.e.d. fodder, as the dollar sinks to unparalleled lows, Pax Americana can't last....

Acd moreover, somewhere, in the bowels of this administration, a lowly bureaucrat is finding a way to liberate a document that will blow this whole farce sky high. Wait on it....

Shotgun Dick has the power because he takes it. Bu$h the inferior is too much of a wimp to reel the bastard in.

Most members of Congress only care about getting elected and filling their pockets with cash.

The people care about Paris Hilton and American Idol.

When the shit hits the fan and splatters on enough of the people they will care and Congress will act slightly more responsibly to save their sorry asses.

If Shotgun Dick is still around he will be pushed back in the sewer he slithered out of.

"First take the blinders off, then take the gloves off."

Amen!

Demonstrations haven't been effective in diverting Bush/Cheney from their goals, although Chomsky likes to put a happy spin on it by pointing out that the Viet Nam War met with no public resistance at its inception.

KayWrites is tired, her fingers calloused from writing to her representatives. She finds hope in polls that show broad public opposition to the war.

She's not the only one suffering activist fatigue.

Protest hasn't changed Bush's tune, though it has flushed Cheney from his hiding place so that John Dean can chew him up and spit him out. Not that Cheney is quaking in his boots.

Russ June points out that Cheney may be bionically reconstructed. His psychopathy long ago overwhelmed his normal human heart. He knows no limitation and no fear, apparently.

And the woeful cry goes out: What should we DO!

Maybe there is nothing that can be done just at this moment beyond the work of understanding the situation as it really is.

Does anyone wonder why Bush & Cheney seem to have so little fear of Congress? We know they regard the Constitution and the statutes with contempt and disregard them with impunity, but why don't they fear the anger of Congress?

Because Congress has been neutralized. Massive public protests, letter writing, phone calls, etc, seem to be less effective than in the past. Congress is not responding to the will of the people.

Aside from the fact that most members have been bought and paid for, there are other ways the Congress can be rendered ineffective. The polarization referred to by earlier posters has become something more than ideological disputation

No ostensibly progressive member will announce to the world that he or she voted to fund the surge because of a phone call in the middle of the night, not unlike the phone call a hapless US Attorney received from a certain conservative Republican senator.

But this phone call had more teeth. The anonymous voice claimed to have evidence of certain embarrassing indiscretions on the part of this erstwhile progressive MOC. Phone records, e-mail, photos, tax documents, sealed juvenile criminal records, etc, etc. The progressive MOC would not cry foul and shout indignation. He or she would quietly rationalize the betrayal of the progressive agenda, finding common ground with other progressives following the same "realistic" path.

The violation of the 4th Amendment ordered by Bush/Cheney and implemented by General Michael Hayden, then chief of the NSA, was an excellent opportunity to gather data on everyone who is anyone in the world of national politics. Nixon's enemies list is now a terrabyte database.

Assume that if you have political influence, you have your own dossier. If you are Nancy Pelosi, you have received anonymous phone calls that are astonishingly well informed about your most personal and family domain.

Blackmail and extortion, bribery, vote rigging, any and all of the political black arts inspire Bush/Cheney in their contempt of Congress and the Constitution and endow them with their false courage.

The problem with so many progressive activists is that they have no imagination for evil.

There are structural problems that make Congress unresponsive, problems like the fact that there are too many people per representative. Divide the number of people by the number of MOC's to get the idea. There are only two parties and at least half a dozen viable constituencies.

But, structural issues aside, which weaken representative government, there are sociopathic people in seats of power, perhaps moreso in this administration than in any other.

When the CIA reveals the "family jewels", it does so only because it fears no repercussions from these revelations of past evil deeds. The secret intelligence agencies feel very secure. We have no real idea of what they are doing with their black budgets, but one thing we do know for certain, they have never been less incumbered by oversight than they have been since 9/11.

Progressives have little imagination for evil. The idea that the US government is a criminal organization just seems over the top, far out there. It is a repellant idea because it seems so cynical and conspiracy-based, and yet John Dean has argued very succinctly that Dick Cheney is a criminal. That means he is an unindicted criminial. Criminal are expert at exploiting naivity in their victims. They think the unthinkable and do the unthinkable and get away with it

because the general public has no imagination for evil, the evil right here in River City, that parades around in the guise of high public office.

The progressive agenda is not effective because it does not recognize what it is up against. It lacks the insight and understanding to formulate a successful strategy.

Even a hardcore analyst like Chalmers Johnson cannot bring himself to believe that 9/11 was a coup, a successful coup, on the part of that hidden cabal for which Cheney is a public face. Nor can Noam Chomsky. No progressive leader can be called a progressive leader if he or she preaches the truth of 9/11.

To progressives, denial is just a river in Egypt.

So, we have only to wait a while longer to see what happens when these unindicted criminals begin to feel insecure, when they begin to feel the gathering threat to their power from a public fed up with this war. When KayWrites begins to feel more energized, that is when the clamp down will happen. 9/11, the Sequel.

Things are not as they seem. There is only one way to reverse Cheney's coup d'etat and that is to believe that it happened in the first place. Let go of the idealistic nostalgia for a people's government and face the reality on the ground.

First take the blinders off, then take the gloves off.

Solutions to the American Problem
(To prevent loss of important posts save them and redistribute them)

1. Remove Bush and his Administration (all of it) from office. There are a range of options from the vote (if you trust the process) to revolution.

To improve that process: America could have its voting run by other democratic nations who are getting it right and do run elections free of the taint of corruption that characterizes America's "democratic" elections. Pfft. Enough said.

2. Take the Bush Administration, all of them, to the international court of justice and try them for crimes against humanity and war crimes (a la Nuremberg). This is extremely important because it will, in a single stoke, restore a large measure of the world's good will and faith in America which has, as a nation, not just wronged itself by permitting this Bush democrassy to exist, but which has bullied and brutalized the world economically, ecologically, culturally, and militarily. If America does not do this, then it will take decades (or more) to restore the goodwill of the world to America. Think Germany and its post-war reputation, for America's is no better right now than that of the German nation after two world wars, and in fact it is probably worse because America has pretended to be a democratic nation while it has covertly and overtly carried out imperialist actions all over the world. Take these criminals and turn them over to the world court for justice. No greater act to restore goodwill for America can be taken and the dividend will be worth it.

3. _After_ Bush and his administration have been tried and convicted in the international courts then the American people should take appropriate internal actions to prosecute Bush and his entire administration for crimes against the American people. For all the lies, all the scandals, all the flout of law, etc. Do not let them escape justice. If you do, then you further undermine the rule of law and justice for all. Founding principles that are extremely important. Separate each of these criminals from their ill-gotten gains and redistribute that wealth to those who were wronged, and publicly account for every cent.

4. Dismantle the current media conglomerates. They are not serving the people and democracy as they are meant to. The new models that do serve are right here. Support these.

5. Remove the power of corporations to influence politics. Cut off the funding of politicians by corporations. Period. Create the amendment to your tarnished Constitution that ensures that corporations have no right under the law to be involved in politics and that they may lose their charter and right to do business if they are found to flout that amendment.

6. Stop this "Leader of the Free World" claim. No nation elected America "leader" of the free world. That statement is a truly undemocratic and arrogant claim that states America's true position and self-delusion as a nation. Stop being a deluded nation. Get real. Return to your founding principles and learn their true meaning and value. The new leadership paradigm of the 21st Century is described as servant-leadership; one serves the world and therefore one earns the role of leader. America once did this.

If Americans sincerely want a way out of their predicament that's the way above. And you must all realize that if you commit to that path you must be willing to make the supreme sacrifice if the situation calls upon you to do so. The American people once inspired the world by shaking off the yoke of imperial oppression in its founding years, surely you are all not so jaded that you are no longer capable of finding within yourselves that kind of courage and ability to stand on principle again. The Minutemen, the citizens' militia that helped establish freedom and found America, set the example and your gun laws were designed to ensure that the citizen could protect their Constitution, that's why the gun laws exist and not for any other reason. No, I don't agree with the gun laws, but it is why they exist.

The true State of your Nation is characterized in the words you find in these comments posted by all who contribute here and on similar blogs and I frankly admire those who have the courage to speak out, that's democracy at work and in this case in forums like this are global democracy for people of many nations are contributing here, and that gives me and should each of you, some hope for the future. But words are in the end just words, of little value at all, unless they actually mean something in terms of tangible action and constructive outcome. That is what Soeharto has urged, and I agree with and admire the courage to say exactly that. However, I have little faith in Americans and their words, because the evidence of your words is stacked against you, and this is simply a description of the degree of corruption of each and every American who swears allegiance to their nation, and you are all required to do so or you are not an American citizen. The Constitution is yours to defend. It's YOUR Constitution. You agreed to it. It is you who must defend it, protect it, restore its integrity. That we contribute to and support such an effort is a mark of our commitment and desire to see former American ideals and principles restored to America. We want you to be free of the oppression under which you live, but you have to want it too.

7. The final thing America would have to do is perhaps the most difficult: dismantle the military-industrial complex (military-industrial-media complex now?) that maintains the militarized economy of America and keeps it afloat. Become a truly peaceful nation and not this covert sham of a democracy that pretends to be democratic while in fact it is the world's First Democratic Bully (and if you think that's an oxymoroff*, you're right). Repurpose the military-industrial complex to combat the domestic and ecological problems that have been created by an America that consumes 5 times that of any other nation in the world. I'm not saying "disband the military" I am saying your expenditure in this area is far in excess of what any truly rational peaceful nation requires.

America does not have a monopoly on freedom. America has become that which it sought not to be when it shook off that oppression that lead to its founding as an independent free nation.

I hope America does choose the path described because the alternative of a nation such as America being run by tyrants who truly do have weapons of mass destruction in the desert is not an alternative the world is going to tolerate or put up with for long. If the American people do not put an end to this tyranny, the free world, in the end, will. That's not a scenario I enjoy entertaining or putting in front of you for your consideration. But the world does want peace. We're sick of the wars, the injustice, the travesty and paucity of intellect and reason we see and hear coming out of your once great nation; we just want to get along. We can't get along when nations are acting as rogues and bullies, acting as America has been acting for the last 50-odd years threatening and worsening the state of our security and our ability to live our lives in the pursuit of happiness.

So get to it. Make your words mean something.

*(moroff - on account of they're not "more on" they're "more off")

Yet another excellent essay reviewing the facts for the choir without offering any options We The People of the United States of America have to thwart Cheney's insanity. Besides impeachment, which would take too long and ultimately fail.

Is Cheney right? Does the office of the VP fall so far between the cracks that he cannot be held to account, or, apparently, even arrested?

OK, Soeharto, I agree that the US is guilty of many sins. But, before you rant some more about our failings, let me point out that in 1944 I was stationed at Horsham St. Faith, near Norwich, whence I flew 35 missions over enemy territory to save your (or your parent's) ass.

Yes, I was also helping to save OUR future freedom as well. But a tone that's little less snotty from you might be more effective in pointing out our many failings.

Nightwatch, that is a brilliant idea.

"There is also a great weakness in the American model of democracy. The US should have had a parliamentary system where the head of government is hectored, badgered, pilloried, and cross-examined day in day out by a political opposition and a government can fall if it does not command enough seats. Presidents are like kings; certainly the Bush cabal acts like it has regal powers. The Westminster model is superior. It would be less prone to descending into a 'kakistocracy'."

Oh, yeah. That could work. People will be tuning into c-span regularly instead of watching "Dancing With the Stars" or the latest faux news about some beautiful, but dumb blond, like Paris Hilton on one of the fake news channels.

People could actually get educated. I am dead serious. If news, by this I mean real news, were entertaining like you describe, people would tune in; and they would learn.

soeharto

If Blair had not backed Bush so strongly and aided him in constructing lies about Iraq the world and the UN might have been able to stop Bush.

Blair abetted Bush and England is at fault for continueing to keep Blair in office as much as America is at fault for keeping Bush in power.

And there is massive corruption in the leadership in many nations around the world.

Two words for someone in Indonesia:
East Timor !

To each of you that has devoted some of your best years to trying to improve things, only to have your hopes dashed, and to those of you trying to remain civil while you rage inside, I say this:

The fight really *is* a generational one. No superman could win this fight in a few years, or even a few decades. It's human nature we're trying to change. People have always been this greedy, and mean, and selfish, and dumb.

But things are better now than at any time in history -- except for the fact of climate change, out of control population, and the ratio of human technical capacity .vs. human emotional development. That's what's different about our time.

So cut yourself some emotional slack. You can't stay in the game if you grind yourself down and expect too much too soon.

During this July 4th holiday weekend, grab a beer, listen to some good music, get together with some close friends and cuss the Republicans thoroughly. Do it with attitude, comforted by the knowledge that millions of people across the country are singing the same hymns.

After your head clears, you'll feel refreshed, invigorated, and energized all over again.

I hope to hear from all of you many times more in the years to come.

Best wishes from Outside the Beltway.

Wow! One of those times when the ensuing discussion is every bit as interesting as the original article.

I'm going to echo a lot of folks here and say that I am embarassed by my government and all too often _glimpse_ the wreckage we wreak across the world. I use the word glimpse because even with going to a lot of progressive sites, there often is a lack of continuity in following issues.

However, living as I do in a red state where my Senator came with George Bush to campaign and do fundraising and was well-received, I also feel like a live in a surreal vaccum. And you might be impatient with the venting that goes on here, but for a lot of us it is reassurance that others feel as we do.

And I think most of want to believe that we will be able to coalesce our fears into action but the system is very corrupt and very dominated by the corporate media. I don't think I ever expected to be so voiceless in America.

I tend to think that as more Americans condemn the Iraqi War and become disillusioned--clearly the Emperor IS naked--that there may be energy to change. I think that this next election will show whether America will sink further into corporate ruled governance or whether there is going to be a counter-movement against it.

"Americans are willfully ignorant — too many Americans choose to stay uninformed because to be informed would be "too upsetting.""

Yeah, it's very sobering to learn the true history and nature of one's country, to understand that it's a filthy disgusting Empire aimed at World Domination, or "Full Spectrum Dominance" as it's now termed in official US government documents. No different from Hitler's goals, or the British Empire's. Behind it all is the "Money Power," what some call Wall Street. They are the shareholders and Board of Directors' members of the Miltary-Industrial Complex, a term which has had other historical names. The worst is when one realizes one's complicity in the Empire's crimes by providing it monies, which is almost impossible to stop as small federal taxes are everywhere/pervasive, as with gasoline for example.

What many here lament is the failure of "negotiations" with government reps to stop pursuing policies that kill, which include almost all US Foreign Policies. When peaceful, tactful politics fails, then politics of confrontation must ensue if the goal is to be attained; Ghandi's method is one path, Ho Chi Minh's and George Washington's another. The escallation leading to July 4, 1776 is instructive of what the future might bring.

The US government is committing genocide in Iraq. The Nuremburg Protocols, which are fundamental US law, says it's the duty of citizens to overthrow any government committing such acts. It's very hard to expect any US citizen to act on this requirement when no government, excepting Venezuela and Iran, is willing to openly charge the USA with genocide. So as with the Jewish Holocaust, the Iraqis will suffer their Holocaust amid a thunderous INTERNATIONAL SILENCE. Note instead how the hand wringing is all about Dafur, with of course no mention of US complicity there.

So to Soeharto I ask, your home government is complicit in genocide with the USA, are you going to say so; are you willing to call the last 17 years worth of genocidal policy toward Iraq by the UK and USA the Iraqi Holocaust? What should be the punishment for these two very uncivilized countries and their contemptible public, unwilling to stop what is plain to see by those whose eyes are open? Who or What will enforce the Judgement? What tools do you suggest we who are awake use against the mesmerized masses upon whose backs the Empire's legitimacy rests? I greatly admire the German students who formed the White Rose, but what percentage of US population even knows of their existence? Infintesimal. The US presents itself as BORG--Resistence is Futile.

And so it goes.

First, we have been conditioned to see ourselves as victims. Second, we have made this belief an institution of our social structure and revel in it, because as capitalists we KNOW that money always makes it all better... right?

I have no sympathy for our nation. I have spent my civil disobedience wad but still have it in me to defy dictatorship. I just don't wish to end up in one of those new "camps for the 'disappeared'" that Halliburton is now constructing on the continent as we converse.

I have made numerous efforts to educate and show other citizens that apathy and selfishness borne within the "allmightydollar" doctrine has now become the ugliest thing on the planet. Shame on us for wallowing in greed while starving the rest of the peoples of the world. This is our reward. We have sown these seeds, now we have to reap the horrid harvest... And eat some crow.

How well I remember those who gave up too quickly, because they didn't believe that the U.S. Constitution actually worked, and that Nixon (and his Vice-President, what's his name, with a similar scowl and bark like Cheney's) would ever be held accountable.

It's a comin' 'roun, folks.

Yep I've marched for years and it has accomplished sadly nothing things keep getting worse from BOTH political parties and the MSM won't cover non mainstream activity until it's far too late. I'll keep fighting but it certainly is tiring and discouraging.

Soeharto: I am with you - I am a US citizen working in the NGO world too - in West Africa, Indonesia, and central Asia. I do not openly admit to my US citizenship (hoping to change it to Canadian if they'll take me). I get your frustration.

But also try to understand the frustration of the people who post to this site. MILLIONS of people across the world (including tens of thousands in the US!) marched against the invasion of Iraq. The WORLD was ignored.

And now, the world won't march with the US citizens again - maybe never again. And they shouldn't. Those of us who wore out our tennis shoes going to marches across the country are tired and frustrated.

Now that the posters to this site are "on their own" so to speak, just what would you have us do?

Okay, I admit Tony Blair is not as bad (or as stupid) as Geroge W. Bush, but he did RECKLESSLY follow Bush into his illegal War of Choice on Iraq. Blair, like the incompetent Bush, did nothing to ensure proper planning for a postwar regime. Blair pissed away whatever influence the UK may have had around the world by being Bush's willing laptoad. (That's a neologism for lapdog toady.)

Blair, like Bush, squandered his nation's reputation and credibility in foreign policy.

The reason I mention this is that the Brits could have kicked their SOB out of office a helluva lot easier than U.S. citizens can kick our SOB out of office, because of the difference in governing systems. Blair should have been sacked long before he chose to leave his premiership. What did you do Soeharto to hasten his departure?

With that said, one reason we're in the fix we're in is because Americans are willfully ignorant -- too many Americans choose to stay uninformed because to be informed would be "too upsetting."

20 or so million people in Great Britain? There's one of the problems.

Soeharto, I have to tell you. I'm tired.

For the last 5 years I've been talking, writing my Congressmen who mostly vote with Bush in Nazi lock-step (unfortunately, I live in the Deep South), confronting my Congressmen in town hall meetings, marching in peace protests, volunteering for political campaigns, posting on blogs like Common Dreams, and trying to get the real information on what is happening with our country out to those who will listen. I've been doing every LEGAL thing a citizen can do to dissent in the face of a regime bent on authoritarian takeover of the government. Many others, like those who post here, are trying to get the word out as well.

The truth is, many aren't listening. I have one aquaintance who gets her information entirely from the Drudge Report (no truth there) and others who watch Fox News all the time.

You might correctly consider and pass along to all you know this information: There is a study showing that in the runup to the Iraq invasion, only 23% of the people who listened to Public TV or National Public Radio thought Saddam HUssein had anything to do with Al Qaeda, WMD's, or 9/11. But an astonishing 80% of those who viewed Fox News believed those misleading lies. Just as Bush wanted. (Check out the story for yourself on this web site.)

My own best friend screamed at me in December 2002 before the invasion, calling me unpatriotic because I questioned whether we were getting all the information. We haven't really been friends since.

The truth is, we are a country divided. The greatest of all the lies Bush told before his "election" was that he was "a uniter, not a divider." This country is more polarized now than at any time since our own Civil War. And that's not my opinion. It's been documented in study after study.

I'm trying. Lots of us are trying. But we are tired.

Even so, slowly but surely, the truth is finding its way into the mainstream. And as it does, people are converting. "We the People" are now 2 to 1 against this ghastly war in Iraq. That's a remarkable turnaround in 2 or 3 years.

Consider this. There are what, 20 or so million people in Great Britain? But America is peopled by over 300 million citizens. Moving public opinion is like turning a great leviathan. It takes time, but when it does happen, and the powerful juggernaut of justice finally bears down on criminals like Cheney, the results can be awesome to behold.

There is something you can do to help. Rupert Murdoch, who is currently about to devour the Wall Street Journal and turn it into Fox News in print, also owns The Times of London. As a British citizen, why don't you take it upon yourself to go after him? I know you are working as an NGO in a far away place. But your position would give you some weight. Why don't you use it? The more Murdoch's Eye of Sauron can be turned from Fox News and the WSJ, the better chance we Americans will have of turning around this Ship of State.

We Americans ARE working for change. But don't wait for us weary defenders of freedom to do everything overnight.

You can help. We need you. The whole world will be needed to stop George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and their cabal.

civil war soeharto--this will end in american civil war, and i expect you are aware that no nation in the world can do civil war as well as america..
ken

I share Soeharto's frustration. We talk, talk, talk. In Mexico, was it two million people who took to the streets to protest the stolen election? And here in the U.S., we have two stolen elections in a row and.... where's the outrage? It all boils down to a collection of internet postings, a few faxes and phone calls to the powerful. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Apple computers say "Think Different". Well, it's time to ACT different. Live different. Don't "question authority"-- take control before it's too late. Live your life AS IF a new, honest and sustainable global society is already here and you're part of it.

Don't stop writing and posting to blogs-- this media is truly giving the mainstream media a run for its money. It keeps us informed in lieu of professional investigative reporters and analysts. But it's not enough.

Coyotita -- you think those guys are afraid? Of what? The one guy in Congress with the balls to call for Cheney's impeachment is almost universally regarded as a freakish little leprechaun. What could Cheney's sycophants possibly be afraid of? There's no accountability. Look at the White House's reaction to the subpoenas issued by the Judiciary Committee: "fuck you."

See David Addington, Gonzalez, and others do, without any thought as to why they do, this blind bidding of those who tell them to break laws, tear up the U.S. Constitution and make outrageous claims to the contrary. Their fear is palpable.

Exactly -- "as individuals", not much. That's exactly right.

So let's try a little thought experiment. Assume that you can accumulate mass support for an action. What would you do that could achieve concrete, short-term results, and how many people would it take?

Personally, I'd like to see millions of Americans flood D.C. and shut it down until Bush and Cheney resign. Even people who support that notion would say to themselves, "I'd like to go, but where will I stay? With that many people, wouldn't it be hard to find a toilet? How long would that take, because I've only got 2 weeks of vacation, and I've already used 1 of them."

The desire is there, but not the will. Even those of us with a strong desire for change are unwilling to make uncomfortable sacrifices. Before any serious change can come, I fear that many many Americans will have to suffer, as they did during the Depression before the New Deal galvanized the nation.

I hope for the sake of everything that is good that I'm terribly, terribly wrong.

OK I would like non US citizens to tell us what to do also because our predicament is so complex and gettin more so every day..that, Besides adopting the British system and crowning me King, I can see no way outta Here!

but we need the revolution too keep on keepin on Folks,,,
But when the demonstrations turn ugly...don't ask me do provoke violence for victory of the revolution...The military that is trained to stop you would love nothin better than to simplify there job and take you out.

In the meantime think about make sure you register to vote so that you can join the protest at the polls and vote for every issue and vote (Write in yourself) for yourself for president and your first pick as V.P. if you can and see the change...it will be a virtual no-confidence vote of the masses off the whole political spectrum...the under-vote will get them and there is nothin they can do!
Love, Jim

Yes, well, what to do?

The political establishment is so thoroughly integrated with corporate power that there is really little to be done with the vote. Labor had power once, but with the US manufacturing base now located in China, that is no longer true. Protests are just ignored or downplayed in the media, which is also largely an instrument of corporate control.

You can refuse to supply your body for foreign wars, but the taxes they need for that purpose they take by force.

I suppose we have to recognize that as individuals, the answer to the question is really, not much.

I cannot understand why American democracy will not flourish the instruments available to it that would end Cheney's coup. There is no 'people power' because the people are eating cake while an underclass fights for them. No draft means no need to demonstrate. It is all about the dollar, not human beings or societies. Impeachment is off the table while the Dems cynically peruse poll numbers. Where the hell are 'principles'?

There is also a great weakness in the American model of democracy. The US should have had a parliamentary system where the head of government is hectored, badgered, pilloried, and cross-examined day in day out by a political opposition and a government can fall if it does not command enough seats. Presidents are like kings; certainly the Bush cabal acts like it has regal powers. The Westminster model is superior. It would be less prone to descending into a 'kakistocracy'.

Soeharto -- tone it down, tone it up -- whatever. Just answer the question: what would YOU do?

(Don't think for a second, btw, that I don't appreciate the irony of being lectured by a Brit. ;) )

OK, I'm going to tone it down a bit. I don't want to get barred. I want to contribute. And there are poeple here who know that things are wrong and that they need to be put right. I sense that there are good people here. (apart frome that guy who keeps going on about how 'Arabs have shown themselves unworthy of self-detemination.' And 'Israel is well within it's rights to blah blah blah.' I don't like him.)

Cheney already lives in hell. No man who thinks and acts as he does can think very well of himself, and it says enough that he's had four heart attacks and lives off a pacemaker and who only knows what else.

This thing who calls himself Dick Cheney is not human.

US people must be extremely wary of allowing debilitated machinery to take control of the reins.

Soeharto:

I want you to know that many of us Americans feel the way that you do, and share your disgust for the apathetic attitude of our morally slothful, intellectually bankrupt, commercially gluttinous brethren. Your words sting, yet I can't disagree with you.

Trouble is, most people don't know anything about anything that goes on in D.C. Fault the mass media for that to a large degree, but still, it should be noted that citizens have the capacity to inform themselves should they make an effort. Mis- and dis-information campaigns promulgated via the mass media are highly effective, nevertheless. Add on top of that the fact that Americans simply aren't as educated as you seem to think they are. Mix in the knowledge that the ever-expanding powers of a police state make protesting (at least in the traditional sense) completely ineffective. If we go to a protest, we get locked in a cage, er, excuse me -- a 'free speech zone' -- if not arrested and beaten for exercising our civil liberties. And so on and on. So what's to do?

I agree completely that if the American people had the will, they could literally put a stop to this ridiculous war, if not topple the Bush Administration entirely. But even those who want those things do not know how to go about it. As evidence, I point to a poster above who's written multiple letters to his or her congressional representation. Letter writing of this sort rarely makes any difference at all (though there are some recent notable exceptions), yet people do it because they're itching to DO Something, just as you are prodding us to do.

So what do we do?
If you were a US citizen, living here in the 'homeland', what would you do? What action do you advocate? I've been searching for answers to that question for years, and it seems clear to me that the only action that could really make a difference is a massive direct action involving upwards of a million Americans in one place at the same time, perhaps shutting down the capital until our troops are brought home. But I'm a fringe minority in that desire, and I have no idea how to persuade others that such an action is necessary.

So what's the solution, Soeharto? Like it or not, there are plenty of Americans who are on your team. What would you have us do? Bitching and moaning and letter-writing and hand-wringing isn't doing it for me, either. If there were something verifiably constructive I could do to help get Bush and Cheney imprisoned, I would do it in a heartbeat.

What would you have me do?

"Drex" wrote...
"interesting penname "Soeharto" for a person so worried about all the people killed by the U.S. In the 1900s people did get off their ass and do things in the U.S.-creation of Unions, Women's suffrage are examples. We on this thread are aware of the atrocities of our Goverment. In the 1960s many of us were beaten or shot by our own police and troops protesting and rebelling against another unjust war."

Well, I am British, Drex - as it happens. And while American activists like yourself go on about what you did in the 1960s, we English go on and on and on about how we won the soccer World Cup in 1966... regardless of the fact that World Cups came and went in 1970, 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986, 1990, 1994, 1998, 2002 and 2006.

Apologies to those offended by my tone. But I am amazed at how the commentariat here at commondreams.org seems to be in constant 'oooh dick cheney he SO bad, I so so cross' mode.

The sum of your well-meaning parts comes across like a kind of armchair-left-wing-FoxTV panel of pundits sometimes. Know what I'm getting at?

Well, do you? (even if you don't like the way I'm asking you)

Ron, you are not the first to notice post disappearing on this thread. Is Common Dreams getting Cheneyesk? Is the digital papershreder backing up to the door here as well as Cheney's residence?

Cheney doesn't seem to feel as though any laws pertain to him.

Such arrogance can come only from disdain for other people.

That's what makes him dangerous.

Folks in the mental health field have a name for him: psychopath.

interesting penname "Soeharto" for a person so worried about all the people killed by the U.S. In the 1900s people did get off their ass and do things in the U.S.-creation of Unions, Women's suffrage are examples. We on this thread are aware of the atrocities of our Goverment. In the 1960s many of us were beaten or shot by our own police and troops protesting and rebelling against another unjust war. Let me know in 10 years what your sacrifices have accomplished with your Government. I believe we were instrumental in stopping the Vietnam war-tell me what your actions have accomplished when you get back to me

Goodness me, I think I've already figured out that the American Government is dangerous, KaneJeeves.

The more scary conclusion I've reached in the last 10 years or so is that the American people are dangerous too. You just can't reign your own government in. You want my sympathy? And my understanding about the terrible yoke you're struggling under? Please.

You've had 231 years and you've turned into world's most lethal body politic (others preceded you, of course) and the most dangerous people on Earth.

You are so unbelievably passive. You have money and education (unlike the people I work with here in Indonesia who struggle for reform and social justice with nothing at their disposal) and yet you come across as powerless. Oh, and now you tell me your are somehow the victims too. Ah diddums.

The buck stops with Americans not the American Government. That is the true nature of democracy. The same democracy that you folks harp on about ad nauseam. Talk about 'All Hat And No Cattle'! In most other countries in the world your 2000 election result would not have stood. 'People power' would have rectified it. But, oh well, at least you had your 'continuity' and 'consensus'. Come on! Get back to us non-American ordinary folk when you've done something concrete about reigning in your Earth-threatning oligarchy and the monstrous elected representatives attendant thereto.

"...not me. Not my family, not anyone I've ever known, and probably not anyone on the CommonDreams discussion board and everyone they know, past, present, and future."

Oh well that's alright then. You sound numerous. We can expect change, soon.

Considering the source (John Dean)and his understanding and experience with dysfunctional executives,(Richard Nixon and all his Watergate goons) this is one scary and (regrettably) true analysis.

Soeharto - I think you mistake Americans for the American Government. The American government, the elites and their corporate pals, have done the damage this past century, not me. Not my family, not anyone I've ever known, and probably not anyone on the CommonDreams discussion board and everyone they know, past, present, and future.

I think you'd find if most folks could spare the time from trying to make ends meet, to learn about what their government has done, they'd be as mad as you are. But they'd be mad at the government, not their neighbors.

DiegoACNP wrote ...

"Personally, I submitted over 10 letters this week to my Congressmen/women."

"From here it looks like you are all hat and no cattle yourself there, Soeharto. The first step in solving ANY problem is first admitting that there is a problem and beginning a dialog about it. American society is waking up thanks to daily improving communication."

Yeah we'll all wait for you and your well-meaning kind, DiegoACNP. We've had a century in which your culture has killed literally millions of people in the pursuit of its economic model and to feed your alledged prosperity. It seems to me that your Congressmen are the heart and soul of the kakistocracy you are so proud of. Hey. You write your letters by all means. "American society is waking up". Oooh, sounds quite lovely. We tremble with anticipation. Your indignation at my post makes me laugh. I am an NGO worker and activist in Indonesia working with marginalized communities. I live an economy your precious Washington consensus has messed up. Please. Don't think you can give non-Americans the flick with your talk of your letters to Congressmen.

"All hat and no cattle". Oooh, you Americans are so playful with your language. So endearing.

soeharto
interesting comments you have. it sounds like you have some suggestions. i am willing to listen.

kakistocracy
1829, "government by the worst element of a society," coined on analogy of aristocracy from Gk. kakistos "worst," superl. of kakos "bad" (which is perhaps related to the general IE word for "defecate") + -kratia "rule of," from kratos "strength, power, rule" (see -cracy).

Also under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment, the Vice President, when acting with a majority of the Cabinet, can also declare the president is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office."

If I were GW, I would be very worried.

Nice work, Mr. Dean. Now tell it to Congress.

Personally, I submitted over 10 letters this week to my Congressmen/women.

From here it looks like you are all hat and no cattle yourself there, Soeharto. The first step in solving ANY problem is first admitting that there is a problem and beginning a dialog about it. American society is waking up thanks to daily improving communication - just like this on the www.

That is what is going on here. That is all.

There is this paradox. All this shit is going. And yet Americans still feel they live in the greatest country on Earth. Well. Way I see it. Barry. Either the stuff that's going on is just the-world's best-democracy in action (and it's not "shit", it's mere realpolitik and "in everybody's interest", Cheney and all) or you are NOT the "greatest country on Earth" anymore, and you are a kakistocracy, and need to face up to the fact. You Americans are the most dangerous race on Earth. You kill SO MANY people. More than the Sudanese. More than the Chinese. More than the Cubans. More than the Chechens. You are scary. Your impunity is unbelievable. Left and right. You're not much different. You talk amongst yourselves. Flounce and pout. Witter on about Hillary. Obama. The very-bad-Bush. But what do you do? You cower. Grumble. Express your utter indignation. But what are you ACTUALLY DOING to make your culture less lethal to others? People are are dying, 100s, every day. What did you DO today to put a stop to it? Post something here to commondreams.org? Is that all?

Bear in mind, that if you cross Cheney, you might get shot in the face. Anybody who thinks that the shot in the face incident involving Cheney was accidental is totally nieve.

I can't think of a worse person than old Dick Cheney. One would think that somehow hell doesn't burn quite as hot without him in it.

Very informative and insightful. Dean says succinctly what we all know is sadly true - Darth Cheney is Dubya handler - just like a puppeteer moves his puppet.