"Americans? We're fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time."

"Illegal immigrants . . . doing the backbreaking work so few native-born Americans have the inclination to do."

"Immigrants put us to shame . . . they may well displace us."

"Thursday's death of the immigration reform bill . . . might slow the cultural displacement, but it won't stop it."

CommonDreams could do a lot better than reprinting bigotry, hate mongering and lies.

The amnesty/open borders bill that was killed in the Senate Thursday amounted to a fraud of the "you've won a million dollars, but you need to send us $1000 first" variety. It would have legalized an unknown number of illegal aliens (12-60 million) and given amnesty to illegal employers who have been breaking immigration and tax laws for the past 21 years. In exchange it promised strengthened border security and provisions against illegal employers, but the promise was a lie.

When the Democratic leader, Senator Reid, was asked why the bill's enforcement provisions weren't mandatory, but were instead left to the discretion of the administration, he said:

"At least for the next 18 months, President
Bush is our President. His Cabinet officers —
two of whom have been heavily
involved in this legislation, Secretary
Chertoff and Secretary Gutierrez — have
confirmed that this money will go
to border security . . . the administration assured all of us this money will be used in a
manner to make our border more secure."

Well that's great. We can certainly trust the assurances of fools, incompetents and liars! But, gee, what would happen after Bush leaves office? I guess the next administration wouldn't be bound by Bush's "assurances."

Senator Sessions told of a letter he'd received from a "master carpenter" in Florida who at one time had been able to earn as much as $75,000/year. Now, due to illegal aliens flooding the market, he could barely make a living. When Sessions told Senator Kennedy of this, Kennedy replied "Well, we're raising the minimum wage." Such is the ignorance and arrogance of one of the bill's chief sponsors.

The Congressional Budget Office said the bill would have reduced illegal immigration by just 13%. The U.S. Border Patrol said the bill would have been a disaster. But, corporate Democrats in the Senate refused to discuss these facts, and instead stuck to their rhetorical script.

Opinion polls consistently showed Americans opposing the bill by a two to one margin.

Still, the corporate Democrats soldiered on, trying to commit political suicide and wreck their party's chances for a Democratic presidency and Congress in 2008.

This was a battle that exposed the corporate politicians in both parties. (Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont voted against the bill.) The corporatists lost this round, and the nation dodged a bullet.

For enlightened information and background on this topic, please read leftist writer Thom Hartmann (yes, even published here on CommonDreams):

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0329-21.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0705-23.htm

iwarrior you do have a point but slamming immigrants is not the answer to a systemic problem. Scapegoating the underclass is not an american tradition. I dont profess to have all the answers but this doesnt seem right and my base instinct is to side with the underprivileged.

you can't know how to solve a problem if you don't know the origin of the problem.

immigrants (esp. mexicans) are coming here obviously for economic reasons. what is the source of their economic difficulty? why is it impossible for millions of mexicans (and others) to live in their own country, even just at a subsistence level?

b/c their elites, in servility to the US, have made it impossible to survive there. this is the function of NAFTA, WTO, etc. if you look at almost any issue, the mexican elite operate in total subservience to the gringo.

why are you more concerned about a fictional boundary b/n the US & mexico, a boundary that exists only in the mind, which makes people "illegal", and less concerned about the massive economic injustices afflicting workers on both sides of the border?

"illegals" are the natural allies of workers in the US, since they are victims of the same capitalist forces destroying livelihoods around the world. but the economic elite will divide us from our brothers & sisters, as they have done so effectively in the past, w/every other immigrant community, and esp. blacks. they'll tell you you can get yours if you keep mexicans from getting any, but in the end we'll all lose.

Princepessa: On the other hand, if they were able to cross the border easily back and forth, I bet they would NOT bring their families here, and that would reduce the immigration problem significatively.

I'm sorry based on your whole argument of they are coming here for economic opportunities of course they'll bring their families.

I married an immigrant from Afghanistan. He came here legally. My ancestors were immigrants from Ireland and they came here legally. I am all for legal immigration. I am against illegal immigration. People should not be rewarded for breaking the laws of the United States especially when legal immigrants wait their turn for years to become permanent residents and citizens. Many immigration applicants are also turned away at our Embassies all over the world. I do believe immigrants are incredibly hard working but please lets reward the legal ones!

dcbeltway: Just wanted to remind you that you're a criminal too. That's right. The system is so gamed that I'm sure if you thought about it you could name a law you've broken (most people can name one they break on a regular basis, speeding in a vehicle comes to mind) and probably more than one.

Speaking of speeding, which is worse, speeding or illegal immigration? With speeding you're purposely putting many other people's lives in danger in order to gain a little (very little) convenience. It's a crime of ego, thinking that you're skilled enough to handle this potentially murderous piece of steel whilst usually not even considering the factors that went into placing that specific speed limit there. Same thing with tailgating, riding too close to avoid collision if someone has to stop suddenly. These are crimes that claim (at least) hundreds of lives DAILY. The punishment for these deadly crimes? Small fines, never over $1000.

Illegal immigration on the other hand gets nobody killed (except possibly the poor person attempting the act), is arguably more beneficial to society than detrimental and is NOT a crime of ego, but of desperation.

My point is not that speeders be hanged, or that illegal immigrants be given medals, it's that we REALLY need to reexamine our priorities in this country, and this belongs WAY on the bottom of the list.

In my previous post's comparison I forgot to mention the punishments for illegal immigration, but this being Common Dreams, most of us are aware of the horrid and inhuman punishments that can await someone caught here without official permission. If you're not, browse back through the posts here for a bit and inform yourself. It's ugly, it's wrong, and it's emotional damnation to those who become accustomed to these atrocities being carried on in their name.

To want to immigrate to AmeriKKKa,legal or illegal, you would have to be 'barking mad'....

George Orwell's prescient presaging even underestimated Hobbesian nightmare it's all become...

In the past several years only a few hundred Iraqis were granted asylum. This year under pressure from a variety of groups the administration granted 7,000 Iraqi refugees asylum. This is the same administration that bombed Iraq. However, Bush is happy to give millions of illgeals from Latin America Asylum. Please tell me how is that fair to the Iraqis? If anybody should be granted amnesty its them.

the standards of yesterday can not be the standards of today. the world is moving faster than the system can keep up. for many people coming to the u.s.a. today, to have stayed where they were is a slow death. what choice would you make? even ameikkka is a more attractive option. just look what has happen under this present administration if you don't believe that the changes are coming faster and faster. we have the globalization of coporations. we need the globalization of populations.

What part of ILLEGAL immigration is it so hard for people to understand. Immigration is vital and one of our great strengths. It gives our culture a periodic shot in the arm as new immigrants revive our culture. WE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO COME LEGALLY AND ABIDE BY OUR LAWS.

Neomunk I respect the laws of this country and no I don't speed while driving as I don't drive. As I live in a city I take public transportation.

Let's dispel the "noble immigrant" myth already - the idea that all the people who went through the US's immigration process over the last 230 years are more proper, more "law-abiding" - and do I detect a strong whiff of "morally superior"?

I made this point in my local newspaper: if the Ireland, Italy, Germany, of 100 years ago, or the Vietnam of 30 years ago, etc., were physically connected to the US by a long, convenient land boundary, the people who wanted to emigrate from those countries to the US would have poured, snuck, or waltzed across the border, in a way very similar to the Mexicans of today, regardless of US immigration policy towards them.

The common denominator behind most emigration is escape of bad economic or political circumstances. When a poor country is adjacent to a rich country, people will take risks to improve their lives, no matter who they are, where they are.

Few people understand the ramifications of illegal immigration more than Floridians.

We have been "blessed" by tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua, and countless other countries for years.

Our public schools are overwhelmed by non-English speaking students, our hospitals overwhelmed with patients using false identities and not paying, our social services are overwhelmed with Aid to Families with Dependent Children and Food Stamps, and the bottom 20% of income earning American citizens have to compete with these people for jobs.

An extremely large percentage of Florida's automobile accidents are caused by illegal aliens without insurance, and the Latino gangs like MS-13 and the Latin Kings have shootouts in broad daylight on our city streets... like last Summer on exclusive South Beach in Miami.

Sure, many are hard-working people with families... but MANY are NOT.

We need to seal our borders, develop a decent system for identifying the illegals, deport the felons, and determine EXACTLY what the rest of them are costing the taxpayers... before we do ANYTHING about granting citizenship!

Ok, so it's illegal to cross the border without permission and I can see the implications. However, the reality is that if most Latin Americans applied for a visa it would be very likely denied to them. So if they want to advance, they have no other choice but to risk their lives at the US-Mex border.
In my opinion, criminalizing people for the fact that all they want to do is feed their families and give their children better education and opportunities, is immoral.
And actually, if any people in the U.S. had the right to complain that would be the Native Americans. So how is it that when the Europeans colonizers came here and stole their land, murdered them, and packed them away in reservations was not considered "illegal immigration"? Instead, these so-called undocumented aliens are here to work and better themselves only, they are not trying to take over the land or masacre americans.
I think all of you whose ancestors came from other countries should be more understanding and realize that if you were born here, is because your forefathers left behind their land of origin, since it didn't offer a good standard of living then (just like the countries south of the border don't offer it now).
There are viable solutions to this problem, and american governments should unify and find solutions. But placing blame on disempowered people who are nothing but economic refugees is disgusting.

This is one of the funniest commentaries I've read in quite a while. Not to mention the usual "my ancestors came here legally," "what don't you understand about illegal" diatribes.

Thank you, Rosa!

But on a more serious note, let us not forget to add "illegal immigration" to the list of "issues," abortion, gay marriage, gun control, healthcare, the "wars on drugs and terror," which neither party, Republicans especially and to a lesser extent Democrats, and their attendant, ancillary lobbying groups, ever wants resolved.

The status quo suits our economic system to a T. The nation's major hotel/motel and restaurant chains, meat packers and small building contractors will continue hiring so-called undocumented workers, or "illegal immigrants," from southern Mexico, Honduras, Nicaragua,El Salvador and Guatemala, much to the benefit of their bottom line. The America consumer, even those who "just want people to come here legally," will always turn a blind eye to the reality of the situation, as long as they keep getting those low, low everyday prices.

And so we, the America public, will continue being played for fools.

Provoice... exactly! We cannot afford to grant amnesty with the huge deficits this country has! Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers money.

principessaflamenco but shouldn't that be the Mexican government's responsibility to ensure their people have economic benefits, healthcare, jobs etc.? Our own healthcare system is over burdened right now.

My other issue with illegal amnesty is it benefits one ethnic group of people..latinos especially Mexican latinos over other immigrants like the Iraqis in my statement above or Asians, Africans, Europeans, Canadians etc. How then was this illegal amnesty bill fair?

What's all this about being for immigrants only if they are here 'legally'? Many of those that come 'legally' are thugs who have cooperated with the US government's illegal intervention in their own countries, and often gotten rich at times from doing so.

I once flew back from Central America to Houston with the long time leader of Guatemala's death squads on board 2 seats ahead of me. Do people think that such a 'legal' visitor is some how better than the poor folk rounded up like animals at the Border? They are wrong if they do think that.

If the US intervenes in illegal manner all over the world in other countries' affars, it's a little dishonest and disingenous to then want to keep out 'foreigners', is its not? If you don't want 'illegal immigration' then stop your own government's illegal activities abroad first. Then you might have some moral ground to stand on. As it is, all should be welcome until the US gets its butt out of other people's countries.

Yeah, Mexican government's responsibility, sure. But it was after NAFTA, that millions of Mexicans from the impoverished agriculture sector had to flee.
So it's not just Mexican government's fault, it's also the U.S. Besides, NAFTA affected not only Mexico, but also a lot of people here in the U.S. in manufacturing lost their jobs.
Obvously the well-being of people is not in the interest of corporations, elites and the governments
Plus, if the U.S. government (richest nation in the world) does not ensure its own people jobs, healthcare, education, etc; you think other countries will?
So the issue here is NOT who to blame for the problem (there are too many guilty), but find the solution, which is stop making immigrants felons. And yes, make the U.S. and Mexican government find a way to sort it out (just like they sorted out NAFTA).
Mexicans would not come here if there were not jobs for them in the first place.
On the other hand, if they were able to cross the border easily back and forth, I bet they would NOT bring their families here, and that would reduce the immigration problem significatively.
I know you are going to say: "how are we going to open the border?" Well, let me tell you something, the border is open for citizens of the European Union, Canada, Australia to mention some (they don't need visas), for obvious reasons, but who tells you a terrorist could not bear a EU passport and enter the country easily, without having to cross illegally by any of the U.S. borders?
Anyway, the Mexican government is a mafia, commits human rights abuses, opresses opposition and has a very powerful elite. So a class revolution there is not very likely. We need to learn Mexican history (past and current) to better understand the immigration phenomenon.

I went to the grocery store and walked passed the Asian and Hispanic food sections in the American food store. Right next to the Hispanic foods were bottles of spaghetti sauce, but I did not see an Italian food section sign. Next to the spaghetti was the pasta A.K.A. Chinese noodles, but I did not see pasta in the Asian food section. Americans have forgotten that America is a diverse group with many different cultures that have contributed to our so-called American culture.

America is a nation of immigrants and we are unique because of this fact. America is/was also a nation of laws and we have benefited from that also. The article tries to blend together legal and illegal immigration as if they were the same. People also want to place illegal immigration on the same level as speeding. If there was nothing wrong with illegal immigration then it probably would not be law preventing illegal immigration and our borders would be open. But, there is a problem and so it is necessary for America to secure all of its borders for numerous reasons, some of them aimed at protecting illegal immigrants from exploitation (Mexican farmworkers, American Chinese sweat shops, current slave trade in the America, etc...).

14 million known illegal immigrants displaces millions of American, jobs, homes and services.

Millions law abiding resident immigrants create the culture and diversity that makes America unique.

safiyyah: What's all this about being for immigrants only if they are here 'legally'? Many of those that come 'legally' are thugs who have cooperated with the US government's illegal intervention in their own countries, and often gotten rich at times from doing so.

The vast majority of legal immigrants are not thugs! Yes, maybe there are a few but by far not the majority.

What is wrong with people?

I see Miss Rosa is at it again:
Harvard sociology professor Robert Sampson suggests that increased immigration may have been a factor in reduced crime rates in the 1990s.

The study said:
In any case, for residents and leaders alike,we
found no difference between blacks and whites in the way racial or ethnic composition predicts perceptions of disorder.

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/faculty/sampson/2004.6_SPQ.pdf

I think illegals are illegals, no matter what country. We don't need new immigration laws, we just need to enforce the ones we have. We can start with the companies that employ illegals by enforcing the law and increasing the fine so that the money they save by hiring illegals at substandard wages are eaten up in fines.

Why doesn't someone ask the Mexican government, who sanctamoniously lecture us on the rights of illegal immigrants, how they treat their own illegals. Thousands of Guatemalians pour over the border of Mexico every year. If caught, they are stripped of all their money, imprisoned, many times raped or beaten, and dumped over the border.

As far as the idea that immigrants from such countries as Canada or Australia being given a free pass, I know from personal experience that this is false. I have friends from both Canada and Aus, business owners, who are constantly harrased by the government about the status in this country.
Both are here legally, contribute to the economy, employ americans, and pay taxes. They have been denied entry, have been required to go back to there country of origin to renew their paperwork, called on by the INS on multiple occasions, and told that they don't "live" in the U.S.

Meanwhile, ILLEGAL immigrants are apparently welcome in my town, as they live quite openly and are not bothered in the least. In fact, most social services now target this "underserved" community.

Welcome to all Legal immigrants. Illegal immigrants need to be intercepted and sent back to their country of origin. Prosecute any employer who hires them.

And how about deducting $1000 from our foreign aid and loans for every illegal that we catch and have to repatriate back to Mexico and other places. I bet they would then show more interest in controlling their borders.

It is very interesting to me that the "illegal alien crisis" surfaced as a "pressing problem" after 9/11 and after the US invasion and occupation of Iraq.

National consciousness shifted to the "alien enemy within" for obvious reasons after 9/11 but to focus attention on the most vulnerable, poor Mexicans who often risk their lives trying to get here in order to earn enough money to support their families back home is just a waste of energy and hardly keeps us any safer from terrorist attack. They are an easy target and thus give us a sense of deluded power to prevent another attack. As others have argued, US "free trade" treaties as well its history of interventionist efforts at undermining of reform in Latin America have helped to foster the horrendous economic inequity that brings about worker migration. We reap what we sow, then we blame the victims.

The horrendous daily images of what our occupation of Iraq has wrought in terms of misery and death in that country have also made us fearful of
invasion. Although I think this operates at a subliminal level, we fear being victimized in the way we have victimize others so blatantly and horribly in the Middle East. The national articulation of fear of "broken borders" and invasion by "illegal aliens" who are seen as less human than ourselves mirrors a deeper fear of helplessness that the US's actions against helpless civilians in Iraq evokes.

How eye-opening it is that even here, in a supposedly enlightened community of progressives, we are reduced reactionary hyperbole.

Those of you who advocate deporting between 12 and 20 million people have NO idea what that task would entail. It would certainly involve creating an enormous, brand new Department....probably the Deportation Department. And, don't forget, our own laws provide that the kids of even illegal immigrants are American citizens. Change that law, if you can and if you like, but it's on the books right now, so we cannot ignore it.

jp - Focusing on the illegal alien crisis "is just a waste of energy" as long as it's not your job that's vanished. As long as it's not your wages that have been cut by 7/8th. As long as it's not your benefits that have disappeared.

Borrowing from Martin Niemöller's poem about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power:

When the fascists came for the factory workers,
I remained silent;
I was not a factory worker.

When they came for the carpenters,
I remained silent;
I was not a carpenter.

When they came for the computer programmers,
I did not speak out;
I was not a computer programmer.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Which illegal immigrants aren't obese?

Well, not, of course, the ones who jump over the border fence. We're talking about the ones who work awhile, then suffer a "fall" in a store, sue the store, go on disability, occasionally send their kids to public school, live in public housing perhaps with a "pusher" who's holding the mom hostage for some crime of hers.

Yet by law, I can't ask the mom if she's a legal immigrant...might infringe on her rights.

Who designed this system?

I would like to remind people that Latinos have more Native American blood in them than Spanish. In other words; their ancestors were here before our white European ancestors. When these "laws" were made, that some seem to think are sacrosanct, by our white male ancestors, the Native Americans were not consulted in the making of these laws, nor were women. I don't feel any obligation to abide by laws that were made by one special interest group (white males) when women and the original inhabitants of this land had no say in making them. Keep the borders open so I can still get out!!

I have cherokee and creek blood in my family. Does this give me the right to displace someone who's family arrived 40 years ago.NO.
Three MILLION illegal Mexicans entered the US last year. This number is growing at the rate of 8% a year. That means in 9 years we will be looking at 6 MILLION illegal immigrants from Mexico alone. This is a catastrophe in the making. Something must be done.

I always wondered if those men who most feared feminists were simply afraid that women would kick their sorry a$$es on a level playing field. Perhaps the latest xenophobia being capitalized on by the paleoconservatives is simply another manifestation of those who fear playing fair because they're secretly afraid they'll lose.

Bob K. I understand what you are saying, because I am in precisely that situation. I can no longer expect to get the kind of job, income, benefits that I had in the 1970s. It's a brutal world, and enraging. But I understand that the same corporate power that has brought us "free" trade policies that have undermined the ability of Mexican farmers to survive in their own country has also undermined the labor movement here, just as you describe. I don't blame the "Mexicans" or other easy targets, but a system that puts profits above all else. It's troubling to me that we hear a great stream of rhetoric against the "illegal immigrants" but very little directed at corporate capitalism. I like to focus on where the real power lies. I don't believe people leave their homes, families, culture, often at the risk of their lives, because they just want to fuck people out of the jobs that should go to the "natives." I believe we are all being victimized by the same greedy inhuman system. Blaming the "illegals" is a diversion from the real problem.

Really, in my first post I had hoped to shift the focus more toward understanding why this issue has become so dominant in public discourse in recent years. With respect to "the terrorists," I think focusing on "illegal aliens" who come here from Mexico to work is a waste of time. I believe that it is linked, unconsciously or not, to fear of the "alien other," and that kind of fear is always greatly intensified during times of war and national insecurity. I believe the war has perverted our sense of justice and decency.

jp - The illegals I blame are the illegal employers. The issue should be called corporate insourcing of low-wage replacement workers.

The "illegal immigration" framing is corporate PR. First, they aren't immigrants, they are migrants who come here for work and leave their families in their home countries where costs are a tiny fraction of what they are here. Second, that framing prompts people of conscience to a knee-jerk reaction, favoring the "poor immigrants" and forgetting the working-poor U.S. citizens who have to support their families here in the U.S.

I agree with you that U.S. economic policies are hurting people in other countries. I disagree that the solution is to destroy the lives of middle-class and poor Americans, and our country in the process.

Call it "two wrongs don't make a right," "out of the frying pan, into the fire," whatever you like. We need to preserve our own democracy if we have any hope of reversing the oligarchy's globalist policies.

Read Thom Hartmann on the subject. Take action against Monsanto, Bush and Clinton if you want to. Don't smear working Americans as lazy, or bigoted, or whiners.

Corrupt and rotten U.S. government is why we have any immigration problem. The president and congress needs to enforce current law or pass whatever law they will actually enforce.

To allow an invasion of 12 to 20 million people to come into the country without even bothering to find out who they are is clearly an impeachable offense under any reasonable interpretation of our Constitution and laws.

The majority of people do not want illegal immigrants. The majority do want orderly, legal immigration in fairly large numbers.

Most people who talk about this demonize the other side. ("xenophobe", "racist", etc. etc,)

Anyone who thinks it is ok to openly tolerate violation of the rule of law can expect that other people may take a notion to ignore the law of their choice.

"We're fat, decadent and getting dumber all the time."

Oh ok, this is lovely. The Right demonizes immigrants, so the Left should ridicule and denigrate Americans then right?

I don't know a lot of decadent people. They're just trying to pay their bills.

"Our life expectancy, which rose for most of the last two centuries, is stalling because so many of us are obese."

And many of those people are poor since fast food is cheaper than health food.

"we market thong underwear to prepubescent girls"

And how many actually buy them? This is widespread? Other countries don't sexualize youth? Thailand?

"and a growing number of adults think a McMansion with fewer than one bathroom per resident is the height of privation."

And how many Americans can actually afford one of those? They're barely making the rent on their half of a McDuplex.

Yep, immigrants are better. Their cultures have absolutely no underbellies to speak of. American workers are bad, bad people. Those immigrants are coming to compete against and defeat us. We deserve it. We're dumb, fat, and lazy. So let's let everyone else in from all over creation, as many as possible, until there's no one left anywhere else...but in America.

I'm not a xenophobe. I'm just sick and damn tired of working Americans being kicked around. The Right and the elites already stick it to us all.

What a dumb article.

I agree with Bob K. and shakker.

I wanted to followup with this link from my earlier post about Iraqis and the fact that only a few hundred have been grated asylum here in the US. After pressure from human rights groups the Administration will allow only 7,000 this year to come legally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4-qlwjlC5Y

Iraqis are the most highly educated of all the Arabs and are arguably the most highly skilled. We are turning them away in droves ironic after we hold at least some responsibility (some people would argue all) for the current mess there. Instead we have politicans calling for the granting of asylum to illegal immigrants who are breaking our laws.

I don;t care about them "breaking the law". The illegals shouldn't be blamed in this. It's big business and our gov't that is culpable in this.

And maybe these immigrants are smarter, more educated, and better workers? If that's the case, isn't it then just another example of America spoiling other countries by raiding them of their natural resources? Why should we drain these nations of their candlepower?

I agree with iwarrior, What a Dumb Article.

I heard 1 out of every 4 criminals in prison are illegals in jail for crimes(not being illegal)) real crimes of theft and violence.
The mexican women I see in the stores are all overweight.
Hispanics have a high rate of diabetes because they do not eat proper. Diabetes is very expensive. Most Americans cannot afford the disease themselves yet we have to support the "hard workings" self chosen disease.
Grocery stores carry Irish,Russian,Indian,asian,etc. food.
I do not see the benefit of taking low skilled people into the country. The USA has more or less told the citizens of this country if they are unskilled they deserve low wages and no healthcare. They do not care we are hard working.
Globalization and the computer have created a need for fewer people. Businesses who want to hold on by hiring part time people at a dollar or two are only living in denial.
What happens when the jobs dry up and we have additional people with no way to earn?
Americans are living with roomates and family members too.
We see and live in hardship.
We get hurt on jobs that will not compensate us because the money goes to people not here legally or other nationality excuses.
We watch jobs dry up and go away. We work harder and for less.
No, we do not want to work for nothing.
Most of illegals are working under the table.

Who is helping to curb illegal immigration?

1. Chavez by making things better for people in Latin America so they won't have to immigrate.
2. Planned Parenthood for preventing unwanted births, thereby helping to curb overpopulation that results in immigration.
3. Bush by killing people, thereby preventing overpopulation in the most stupid and cruel way possible.

Who is helping to foment illegal immigration?

1. Countries who bomb people's homes in other countries.
2. Corporations looking for slave labor in other countries, stealing resources, impoverishing their people, polluting their land, water and air, propping up military dictatorships and turning people to consumerism.
3. Religions and politicians against family planning.

Proposed solutions that don't address these problems are doomed.

As long as we have no qualms about globalizing capital we should have no qualms about immigration ... legal or illegal. We are only too happy to stuff 'liberalization of economies' down unsuspecting throats ( its a euphamism for theft ) but we are not willing to accept immigrants from those very countries. If our ancestors ( the Native Americans) held the same views we would have our asses kicked back to the old world.

High minded or lowbrowed arguments notwithstanding, doesn't anyone realize we are creating a slave underclass here? How can anyone who calls him or herself a liberal progressive, anyone who rightly admires the work ethic of immigrants legal and illegal willing to do backbreaking field and construction work for pennies and live in unheated shacks and decayed trailers with no running water and no electricity actually exploit them in this way? I have actually heard people say that it is perfectly fine for "those Mexicans" to live in these conditions because a shack here is so much better than the cardboard huts they have at home. Those comments don't even deserve a response. I challenge anyone on the side of open immigration and amnesty of any stripe to first visit the homes and communities of migrant workers in America and have a look at their living conditions. See if you feel justified in bringing more families here to live in such squalor so you can eat cheap strawberries grown on the factory farms you say you can't stand. If your head is about to explode from the contradiction, maybe you should consider sheet mulching your lawn, planting and picking your own strawberries.

If I have to read some stuffed shirt pontificating about being a legal immigrant, I think I will throw up. These legal immigrants are those who had the money or political pull to jump the line to get their documents. The poor schmuck from the campo doesn't have that opportunity. They would have to wait more than a lifetime for legal papers. Before you get all hoity-toity about illegal immigrants, do you really think that the undocumented immigrants really don't want to be legal? How are they going to do it? The US only issues a pitifully small number of visas and green cards to each country. How is someone who doesn't have pull going to ever get one of them? You holier-than-thou jerks need to be ashamed of yourselves.

evalyna is typical of a Faux News listener. Let's look at her arguments.

"I heard 1 out of every 4 criminals in prison are illegals in jail for crimes(not being illegal)) real crimes of theft and violence."

You heard that on talk radio. As the column points out, immigrants are 75% LESS likely to engage in crime than the normal population.

"The mexican women I see in the stores are all overweight."

So are the Anglos of the same social level. It is related to the diet that you can afford. From my own observation the women in Mexico City are thinner than the women in Minneapolis.

"Hispanics have a high rate of diabetes because they do not eat proper".

That's "properly," lady. And the reason for that is genetic since the genes causing diabetes also favor surviving famine which was an annual occurence in Latin America 400 years ago. And Americans are as bad as the Mexicans ever thought of being. Our obesity level is much worse than the Mexicans ever thought of achieving.

"Grocery stores carry Irish,Russian,Indian,asian,etc. food."

So what's your point, that they should only carry Northern European food?

"What happens when the jobs dry up and we have additional people with no way to earn?"

You are absolutely right! We need to send anyone with Eastern European, Southern European or Asian background back to where they came from. It would be so great to get rid of those wops, dagos, micks, hunkies, kikes, wogs, bohunks, and other vermin. After all, this country was settled by English, Germans, and Africans (although not by choice, Does that count?). Oh, yeah. And the Spanish were here before any of them.

I have a great idea. Rosa, why don't you get your obese American ass south across the border and assimilate yourself there, and let Americans worry about America's future.

No one is terrified of anyone. We demand that American jobs be for American citizens FIRST. That includes Mexican-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans, and yes, Rosa, the white European-Americans that disgust you so.

And we're not going to cave regardless of your filthy racist rhetoric.

As soon as the government issues all Americans their get out of jail free card no one gets out of jail free.

ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL. I'm sick of hearing about a nation of immigrants. Our ancestors came through the front door, adapted, worked and PAID TAXES. They didn't sneak across the border in the dark of night, disgrace our flag, steal our jobs, learned English and were actually proud of becoming Americans. We were taught growing up just how fortunate we were to be Americans. Our ancestors didn't send billions of dollars to the motherland, insult Americans and expect everyone to learn and speak their language so they could garner more socila services, free medical care, free education, and expect the American government to disregard their citizens to provide them with shelter, businesses, free food, free medical care and then dip into the Social Security to hand out to those whose only payment into it was using someone elses identity.

The damage caused by illegal immigranfs have devastated the American people, infastructure, and culture to award with one of our most honorable title...American!

Sovereignty mean anything to you?

It's an insult to every American when our government and people like yourself say, These folks are just coming here for a better way of life, They are doing jobs Americans won't do, They just want a better life for their children. Reminder, the immigrants who built this country, served this country and raised their children in the fashion, if you work hard, pay your taxes you can be whatever you dream. That dream has been long removed. Americans built this country, fought and died for this country. My suggestion, if your homeland is that miserable, instead of running to America to steal every benefit you can get your hands on, then send nearly all your money back home so your remaining family there can live like royalty, go back home and get rid of your corrupt government and build a country you can be as proud of as Americans.

We may not be all that, but it's ours and Americans love it, believe in it and will fight for it.

jp, your point about the rise of fear of terrorism and exploiting immigrant xenophobia is excellent.

there's a very simple solution to the problems plaguing the US right now:
CUT THE DOD BUDGET IN HALF!!! hell, cut it by 80%. redirect 300 billion dollars a year toward a more productive economy, and most of this BS would go away in a decade.

there's more than enough $$ to deal humanely w/the problem of immigration. but the diversion of resources into war creates artificial scarcity that pits working people against each other. as Orwell said in 1984, "the purpose of warfare is to MAINTAIN THE CLASS STRUCTURE OF SOCIETY." this is true in the new war on immigrants: pitting working people against each other costs the economic elites NOTHING.

Yeah, what trippin said,"Rosa, love it or leave it".
I have another suggestion for you Trippin, perhaps you could take time off from this thread and take Spanish lessons.

Ms Rosa may not know this, but, while the US is Number One in the world for obesity, Mexico is Number Two. And gaining.

But, hey, I am fat and lazy. I guess I have a right to basically import a slave from Mexico to work for me for a pittance. I am not sure how this is "progressive", but it sure sounds good.

I've repeatedly written in these forums that the "illegal immigration" framing is corporate PR, and the real issue is "corporate insourcing of low-wage replacement workers," or simply "illegal employers." I've also said the solution is to fine and jail the illegal employers until they change their hiring practices, and that without jobs the migrants will voluntarily return to their home countries. No deportation. No fence.

Many agree, but others say that compassion for the migrants trumps the corporate crimes and the harm to working Americans and the country.

So, I've now hit on a new idea. We enforce existing laws providing fines and penalties for illegal employers, yes. But in addition we pass a new law providing that illegal employers must also pay a severance bonus of $10,000 to any illegal alien they are caught employing.

This would provide one more incentive for employers to hire U.S. citizens, and would also be compassionate to the illegal migrants who would be traveling home at their own expense. Perhaps the bonuses would only be payable in their home countries.

Any thoughts on mandatory severance pay?

I am shocked by the level of hate and racism pouring out of so called progressives. How is hating poor, powerless brown people helping the plight of our working class?

Why not direct your outrage over the policies that undermine our working class such as NAFTA, CAFTA and corporate lobbyist ownership of our lawmakers? Why not support unions and educate yourself on the upcoming trade policies and contact your congresscritters?

I guess it's easier to hate the "fat Mexican woman" you see at the grocery store than hate the policies that support corporate welfare.