Wow, thanks for this. A great counter-point to the corporate media article from the Guardian that somehow manages to ignore almost all of this.

I just wish he'd mention that the Democrats are as fully supportive of this strategy and Bush and the Republicans.

Divide and Conquer!!

Dwellers of Gaza, the biggest open prison in the World, are suffering the newest round of tragedy, visited upon them by Israel and US. Basic injustice apart, never in the history of the mankind, so many across the world did not suffer so much for so few (fanatic settlers) to gain so little (land and water of the West Bank). Sure, there will be still plenty to deal with, but you cannot start making any progress without decisively addressing that glaring injustice.

In our own backyard, 9/11 is the price we paid for allowing Israeli interest to high-jack US foreign policy. Power of the Lobby shuts down any debate about the main (and stated by terrorists) cause of 9/11, which is occupation of the West Bank with US money and arms. 9/11 was in turn grabbed by the Lobby as an opportunity to destroy the most dangerous enemy of Israel - Saddam's Iraq, as advocated by the familiar characters for years before 9/11. Lies of the White House gang about the Iraq were always transparent. But the biggest factor in this Iraqi/terrorism mess is virtual control of American Legislature, foreign policy and mass media by the Israeli partisans.

From Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Libby, and Abrams to Adelman, Brooks, Krauthammer, Safire, Judith Miller and Kristol, to name just a few of the countless activists. This fifth column must be exposed to prevent further damage to our treasure and life. Manipulation of intelligence and public opinion that went into Iraqi enterprise is nothing short of treason of historical proportions. And the Lobby was a crucial factor in ramming the war through. There were other powerful interests involved - emporium-builders/oil securing corporate types, crusaders and political opportunists like brains of our shrub. For the mass media overwhelmingly owned and staffed by the Lobby, a nice bonus was economic value of the reality show entitled The War.

If government of Israel manages to pull it off, and negotiate some kind of reasonable arrangement with Abbas (or with whoever takes his place) in West Bank, while isolating terrorists in Gaza - this might be the greatest breakthrough in Middle Eastern politics ever (after creating State of Israel). I hope Israel withdraws from at least some occupied territories in West Bank to make this deal more attractive for Palestinians, and Fatah clears West Bank from Hamas. Fantastic! The world can deal with extremists in Gaza later - when they get back to their senses (if ever). This might be the most brilliant chance Hamas handed to Israel- natural collapse of the union of moderate palestinians and the crazy fanatics.
Or it might turn out to be quite the opposite - nobody can foretell the Middle East...
Regarding supposedly democratically elected Hamas government - bunch of boloney. Votes of a few desperate ignoramuses do not count for much. This great USofA supposedly democratically elected W. Look what happened!

The poor Gazans! Its almost impossible to imagine their level of suffering. May they persevere through this crisis.

When Hamas won such a decisive victory in the elections wihtin hours Bush and Israel did every nefarious thing they could think of to further radicalize the radical elements in that organization. Refusing to acknowledge the legitimate democratic outcome of the election, freezing tax receipts legitimately due the Palestinian people. Even with all of this there was a brief moment when Hamas (if memory serves me)considered seriously softening the refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel.

Peace, justice, and reconciliation are not the agenda of the U.S. government and Israel. War, instability, land, money and more war are the true agenda of Bush, and unfortunately a large percentage of the Judeo-Christian world.

We are witnessing not only the complete failure of the United states, but of humanity.

iafrompa:
Fanatics, yes, but crazy? I doubt it.

The grab and "take-over" of Gaza by the militant Hamas was a calculated show of force. They now control major border checkpoints with Eqypt which is sitting on a tinderbox of Islamic militancy itself with the "Brotherhood". Money and arms will now flow freely between the two. Not only Isreal will be in more danger but Eqypt will be sucked into the quicksand.

Doesn't it sound familiar?

A majority of voters and their hopes ignored bt the rulers.

Finally with no hope left, they feel they have to resort to other means to fulfill their needs.

I hope it is not a blueprint for other elected (or should I say non-elected) leaders chosen by voters who then ignore the will of the voters.

It certainly is a sobering result to contemplate.

Meanwhile we should pray for all the real victims.

The neo-cons have a burning desire to be correct. They've been ridiculed by the stupidity of their Iraq narrative. Perhaps they seek redemption by creating a "radically polarized world" as Ira says.

If so, they must be stopped. I do not want to live in their world.

To: NewAgeArtist:
Good points. On the other hand, arms have been smuggled to Gaza through tunnels in Egypt for a long time, regardless who was in charge in Gaza. The arms are supplied by Iran, with Gaza being a proxy for Islamists. I still think it might be easier to deal with them with Gaza being now isolated. Most of reasonable Palestinians will leave Gaza (the flow of refugees has started already). Those who are left in Gaza - are mostly militants, supported by Iran. I would think it is easier to place some international sunctions on them under these circumstances and put pressure on Egypt. No?

iamfrompa: please stay there.

iafrompa:

You make a sound argument...corral and contain. But we're dealing with a fanatic religous idealogy, not a marching army with followers. This whole thing could become the worst scenario western society has ever had to deal with. Iraq could be small potatoes. And how did it all start? By American corporate interests meddling where they didn't belong and our undying, no-questions-asked commitment to supporting Isreal.

To:NewAgeArtist
Hamas is bent on destruction of Israel, obviously. But this is a highly hypothetical argument to make what might have been happening in Middle East if Israel had been eliminated. I would think USA and other Western contries plus Russia (and eventually China) still be meddling in this region, fighting for influence, because this is where oil money is. This fact is an unavoidable corollary of normal capitalist development, like it or not. It is facile to blame it all on American corporate interests, but they are facts on the ground in our world. As you may remember, communists did not officially have any corporations, but they were no better than the capitalists, when fighting for spheres of influence. It is the world of the power out there. And guys like us can only write these blogs. And support Israel, as this is what I believe is a good thing to do. With this - I do not support occupation of the West Bank.
By the way - read article by Naomi Klein from today. She actually tried to paint Israel with the brush of fear mongering, etc, but in effect she gives good argument in support of Israel: they are our partners in security.

We should remember that Hamas was originally a handful of fanatics that grew out of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood - until they received weapons and support from Israel's Mossad to counter the PLO, which at the time was the duly representative organization of the Palestinian people in the West Bank, Gaza and elsewhere.

After Yassar Arafat returned to Palestine, both the Mossad and the CIA began arming various factions in the PLO until the people began to see the organization as collaborators with both Israel and the US, rather than their representatives.

By then, Hamas had become extremely well-organized and was able to break free from their Israeli/US benefactors. They ran clean and efficient social services, in contrast with the increasingly corrupt PLO.

When there was finally a free election, fed up with the PLO's corruption and collaboration with the Israeli/US occupiers, the Palestinian people duly elected Hamas to lead them.

Then, as others point out, the US, Israel and now-collaborationist and corrupt PLO did everyhting they could to undermine the Hamas-led government.

In the last few months, the US and Israel have been publicly shipping an increasing amount of weapons to the PLO, believing they could overthrow Hamas, or more cynically, keep the Palestinian lands in the state of permanent civil war.

They obviously failed in the overthrow because PLO fighters have little support outside their temporary pay masters. It is still to be seen, if among all the misery and destruction, the Palestinian people and what little clean leadership remains in the PLO/PNA and Hamas can work out.

It is up to them, simply because the entire world - including the UN and Europe - have bailed and failed the beleaguered nation of Palestine.

TJ is right in his summary. All these shifting allegiances are difficult to trace, but this is what makes Middle East politics so impossible to deal with on a simple basis who is "right", and who is "wrong". Today's friends are tomorrow's enemies. Strategic alliances are critical in politics, especially in Middle East. I believe Israel is one of this kind of ally. Arab allies - they come and go, depending on how the wind blows. The discussions of "justice" and "human rights" are good mainly as official façad of real politics. What is "justice" in Middle East, or in any other part of the world where people have been killing each other for several thousand years... Who knows? There are humanitarian reasons to alleviate suffering, not because these people are "right", but simply because people on the other side might be in similar predicament one day. It is called "compassion", not "justice". What I am trying to say: Just because Palestinians are suffering now, does not mean they are right in their fight against Israel. I think this is one mistake people make when they support Palestinian side against Israel, i.e. confusing compassion and justice.

Hamas is of an ideology that is hell-bent on the destruction of
isreal and of the United States. How stupid would either have to be to support these guys. If the people of palestine want to
elect these people to represent them, so be it. It doesn't mean that we should support them. I am looking forward to the next Hamas "free" elections.

As far as Fatah is concerned, I think it is funny that this is the group that legions of writers at this site urged support for, only to turn against them.

" If the people of palestine want to elect these people to represent them, so be it. It doesn't mean that we should support them. I am looking forward to the next Hamas "free" elections."

Hear hear! Palestinians should elect anyone they want to represent them, that is democracy. The US and Israeli governments should decide which governments they want to support that is diplomacy. Palestine wants Hamas, then they get Hamas but why should we send them money.

Well, tune in to CNN and hear Wolf the Blitzer bray on about how Iran is arming Hamas, just as it's arming Hitzbullah and al Sadr. Gotta get those "facts on the ground," i.e., an excuse for bombing Iran.

Regardless of sympathies for or against. The realities are that a greater number of Palestenians are involved in war fare, tactics, strategy etc,. In short the Palestenians are gaining experience in mortal combat albeit against some of their own but then nothing is free.

The assassination of a Lebanese member of parliament, the conflagration in Gaza along with the storming of a Palestenian refugee camp are part and parcel of what an Elliot Abrams is directed to do. The overriding facts are that the US/British and Israelis miscalculated in Iraq and Afghanistan and seem to be doing the same in Gaza and Lebanon.

It looks like GWB was right when he stated that the Korean modus will be applied in Iraq/Afghanistan, meaning 50/75 years of having US military on the ground in those countries cause the people in that part of the world are sick and tired and they seem like they will not take it lying down anymore.

Zoya Wolf Blitzer used to write for the Israeli lobby AIPAC's newsletter. http://www.answers.com/topic/wolf-blitzer so no surprise there!

You got it all wrong. The jews in Israel and the U.S. are pure as the driven snow. Those EVIL Palestinian terrorists are tricky appearing to suffer just to get sympathy and hide their antisemitic world domination plots.

If you don't believe it ask Joe Lieberman.

America's biggest threat abroad has always been democarcy. Algeria, Iran, Palestine and even Iraq never seem to elect the puppets that the U.S. supports. As a result of this, the U.S. has ZERO credibility in the Middle East... even in Israel! To make matters worse, the narrow minded MSM (Fox, Limbaugh, etc.) continue to perpetuate the crisis by pretending that a democratically elected governemnet is besides the issue in each of these cases.

Yes, I see, the Jews said, "Let's you and him fight." and Hamas and Fatah said, "OK!"

Give me a break. Mr. Chernus probably blames the Jews when he's late for work or burns his toast.

As stated in a previous post, "divide and conquer" is the strategy.
An excellent article on the history of U.S. involvement in the Middle East, can be found at the following link.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-159.html

As for mainstream media's reporting on this, it is useless as always,I have stop watching it.
The job of mainstream media, is to keep the masses as misinformed as possible, and push the official line.
My hope is that with popularity of the internet growing as a source of information. The mainstream media will become overtime as extinct as the dinosaur as a source of news.
Some would say it already has.

But, MiddleRoad, you do not know for a fact, do you, that Mr. Chernus eats toast, burns it, or even less whether he blames it on the Jews in such event? You write "probably."

The point is the Israeli-Paestinian crisis is awash in just such propaganda on a much larger devastating scale, unsubtantiated accusations repeated over and over, extraordinarily biased media coverage, devious and persistent racial slurs, that we can hardly be sure of anything except perhaps that no matter how many hoops the Palestinians jump through, Israel will never accept to negotiate peace and final borders. That much is clear and has been for decades.

Waging war from the sidelines

Israel has perfected a policy of waging war from the sidelines. Rather than sending their men and women into battle, or squandering their nation's wealth on war, they have maneuvered others into fighting their wars. They instigate wars in Palestine between rival factions for power, thereby ripping Palestine apart, and wield the United States as their first line of defensive-aggression against the Muslim hordes.

American leaders, either through a devout belief in a U.S./Israel marriage, or intimidated by the vast economic power of American Jews, don't distinguish between U.S. national interest and Israeli interests, no matter how much they diverge.

Forget "My country right or wrong," now Israel right or wrong is our battle cry.

.

Ragdoll you are correct. The Peace Process is utlized by Israel as a smokescreen and a delay tactic while they continue to grab land, build settlements and construct more walls. Some Israeli politicans have called for the immediate transfer of the Palestinians while others seem to have decided that ethnically cleansing people from the land more slowly would put them less in the media spotlight. They seem to have opted for the second version and the proof is the ever changing regional maps over time.

As far as the rest of the world doing anything I think its only ther US, the sole superpower, that has the potential to change things. However, congress is beholden to the lobby.

As for Hamas I don't think it is good at all that they are in charge. Islamist policies have never been good for the Muslims living under them and even worse for other minorities just ask the Afghans about their suffering under the Taliban (both women and men suffered enormously) or the Iranians under the Ayatollahs (Majority of Iranian youth cannot stand them).

As TJ mentions Israel supported Hamas in the beggining so they reaped what they have sown. Its called blowback.

What the Israel and US Government neo cons have done here brings to mind Stuart Symington's retort to Joseph McCarthy at the Army/McCarthy Hearings when he said," It seems some people just want anarchy." Both the big shot US and Israeli neo cons seem to thrive on anarchy, as it insures people will come running to them for the security these neo cons will never be able to provide, but the neo cons seem hell bent on creating a Pavlovian response by people to keep running to them to keep this nightmare going.

CLARIFICATION-- this duplication resulted apparently from a technical glitch. I regret this, but bear with me on this.

"A Hamas-run Gaza would likely seal the coastal strip's pariah status and Israel could well block the borders."

i love it.
gaza is a pariah state.

israel with its brutalizing of palestinians and lebanese for decades is on the other hand a fine upstanding member of the international community.

people like iafrompa write clever little strategic analyses but cannot have any sympathy for the underlying injustice in this horrible situation. yes, yes, we must support israel, it is the right thing to do.
we must support US and israeli brutality, it is the right thing to do.

exhibit88, you nailed it. rabblerowzer and dcbeltway, thank you; I'm thrilled that thinkers like you somehow manage to exist in spite of the bombardment of mainstream media half-truths.

And alexnosal, of course what you meant was that democracy is the biggest threat to American IMPERIALISTS, not to the people of America. Democracy is certainly is not a threat to most of us if it is allowed to blossom. But insofar as it forces foreign governments to reflect the will of their people, it causes problems for the corporate powers and foreign policy drivers that run our government.

And can we please discuss Israel without turning it into a discussion about "the Jews"? Charges of antisemitism continue to fall on discussions about Israel like smoke bombs - causing confusion and noise, but contributing nothing helpful. I wish proponents of American/Israeli policy could present constructive arguments. Perhaps they have none.

Ah yes, all the hoops Palestineans have jumped through:

1. Accept Israel's right to exist
2. Stop trying to kill Jews
3. Stop threatening to kill Jews

Zero for three.

With the Palestinians, Israel is in a tough position. It is supposed to give back the land(West Bank and Gaza) to create a sovereign state for Palis. Thats pretty irrevocable. On the Pali end, they simply have to give up on attempts to Arabize/Islamify the Jewish State. That's highly revocable.
I don't blame the Palis alone for the mess, even though the weakness of the pali compromise crowd made it an unequal partner to the Israelis. (they couldn't stop Hamas terrorism, proving they weren't tough enough to trust) Israel too has been too nervous and scared of its West Bank settlers to keep them in line. If Fatah can demonstrate it can handle Pali terrorist organizations, and Israel demonstrates a willingness to confront the West Bank settlers, there would be a real opportunity for peace.

Interesting article. What is so ridiculous is that the media portrays the Palestinians as fundamentalist Islamists running around in ski masks with AK-47s with their only underlying motivation being the destruction of Israel. I have a number of Palestinian friends and they tell me that of all the people in the Arab world Palestinians are definitely among the least religious and least fundamentalist. The election of Hamas in the first place was clearly a protest against the corrupt and useless Fatah PA and what is even more ridiculous about the coverage on mainstream news is that they never seem to mention that they are all still occupied and the PA has no power anyway.
There are some very good articles on the Palestinian conflict here to counter-balance the constant sensationalist propaganda that emanates from mainstream news.

In response to Rick June.

I think the mainstream media actually has a far more powerful and sinister role than simply pushing the official line. What has to be remembered is that the corporate media giants are profit motivated principally, Sure they have ideological motives but it is all about money.
Hence to give one example, the mainstream (mainly 24 hour news stations) acted as cheerleaders for the Iraq war because the Iraq war promised far higher ratings and profit potential. People are glued to the 24 hour networks and whether the war goes well or not, they profit. Then as the war frenzy tires they turn on the administration in order to once again pull in higher ratings. However, any scent of tension emerging with Iran and they jump on it like a pack of wolves clamouring for war. The mainstream news is far more detrimental as the profit driven machine it is than if it were simply government propaganda because it thrives on violence and chaos alone.

iamfrompa posted 6/15 at 4:11 exhibits an abysmal knowledge of the history of the Palestinian/Isreali conflict--- I would suggest reading a book called "The Gun and the Olive Branch" by a Brit Journalist, David Hirst---- Available from Amazon.com. It is not based on anyone's opinions, but is a compendium of articles covering many years from the Jerusalem Post. Read them and judge for yourself who is perpetrator and who is victim.
Exhibit 88 and TJ and especially RabbleRowzer understand the reality of what is occuring.

"MiddleRoad," you must be a middle of the road fascist, neo con, whatever that's supposed to be. The Israeli gang deliberately tried to sink the USS Liberty and covered it up. Alexander Cockburn or somebody else like he should have the opportunity to talk about this on this website. Furthermore, Israel isn't the Jews, and the Jews aren't Israel, and thank goodness more and more Jews are damned seeing it that way. Some don't recognize Israel as the Jewish state, using quotation makes around it when referring to it. Some Jews now are simply say Israel doesn't speak for them, with all its atrocities against the Palestinians and its outrageous apartheid state. The people running that government would be called fascists and terrrorists by such prominent American Jews as Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt, which is what they called Menachem Begin and his gang in a letter to the New York Times back in the early 1950s,. and this gang is well to the right of Begin and his crew.

AD - Your comments about MiddleRoad put on display the worst inclinations of the Left. When you have a problem with someone's arguments- call them a nazi racist. That stops all debate because you are not attacking their ideas, you are attacking their character.

This is a rather infantile way to kill a discussion

To Donkey Hote (or is it Hoot?):
Seems like this discussion is over, anyway. You must be just spoiling for an argument. I just want to find out what did I distort with my "abysmal knowledge of the history of the Palestinian/Isreali conflict"? As far as I can tell, I did not make a mention of any historic facts in any of my postings on this site. I only tried to make a distinction between compassion for suffering and justice. You refer me to a book by a Brit journalist which is (according to you) a compendium of articles covering many years from the Jerusalem Post. I admit - I did not read it. Let me ask you: since when do newspaper articles are considered reliable sources of historic facts? I hope future historians are not studying current involvement of USA in conflict in Middle East by clippings from todays press.

"fonddodo," you need to get better reading comprhension. What said in reference to my comments is silly. I just damn told it like it is, citing such greats Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt, and you just can't deal with it. Oh, and the comment above is such BS is boggles the mind. Those were the comments from "imafool."

CLARIFCATION-- "What you said in reference. . .

Also "such BS just boggles the mind."

AD

Wow. You really wounded me there. You apparently have a problem comprehending your own writing. Did you not call middleroad a "fascist" or am I missing something. As far as Begin belonging to the stern gang, this is well known. Senator Byrd belonged to the KKK. Arafat's mentor and Uncle was the Grand Mufti, one of Hitler's pals . So what. Every country has people in power at one time or another who have a checkered past or worse.

The people of Isreal and the Palestinians are not going anywhere. They need real solutions, not conspiracy theories.

PS. Again, lay off the infantile name calling. Sorry for telling it "like it is"

I don't understand why anyone sides with Israel on anything? I am confused here... what because they are supposedly "God's Chosen People" that supporting them is righteous or morally sound positively? From day one, literally, they showed no gratitude for the gift of Palestine. On the contrary, not only did they create racist apartheid-like policies but became greedy after the gift as if it was not good enough. They still control Golan Heights and STILL wage war. Why do Americans feel that protecting Israel is more important than protecting themselves? Is it based on their own opinion that they are God's Chosen People and the belief in a God that THEY created? Genius! I mean it is shocking that there are those who buy into that, that someone Jewish people hold the keys to understanding reality. That their interpretation of the world is superior to every other culture.

The United States needs to stop supporting Israel in every way imaginable. They will do just fine Americans. Trust me :-) This act is one way the USA can gain some respect in the world.

Fondodo, were you thinking about such conspiracy theories as the everybody outside Israel is out to get "wonderful' Israel, and thus out to get all the Jews, the old Anglo Saxon, Irish bleeding heart liberal, Arab, Communist conspiracy? If not then I don't know what damn conspiracy theories you atalking about on this dawg, and frankly I don't give a damn. Yes, I'm sorry you told it like it isn't. Do brush on your reading comprehension.

Wow.

AD Just when I didn't think you could get anymore incomprehensible, you prove me wrong. What exactly is is an Anglo-saxon, Irish bleeding heart liberal, Arab, Communist conspiracy? Sorry, I'm a Danish/German- american Catholic. I hope that does not disqualify me from having an opinion.

I was talking about the "jews control the world" "Israel is the root of all evil in the Middle East" " the U.S uses Israel to control the Oil" ect. theories I have seen on this site.

I'm sorry if the call for real solutions offended you. Go right ahead with your conspiracy theories if that is what makes you happy. Good luck

Ode to
ROCKY MOUNTAIN PROPOGANDA AND JIHAD CENTER (RMPJC)

Gimme a good
old fashioned Jew
Like days past
when there were few.
Seen but not heard
on a pile or ditch to rest
Coming through a chimney
That's the Jew we like best!

Beware that Peace never
comes to Arab and Jew
For your Raison d'etre
will be gone too.

But surely you'll still find
Cause to gloat
without rhyme nor reason
to make the Jew scapegoat.

Gimme a good
old fashioned Jew
Upon which we can act
out our hatred too.

Deceptively kind
apparently Just
Forthofer's mob
will do what they must

Like brown shirts of old
that marched to and fro
they will twist the Truth
'till all Jews go

Audeh, seeds you sow
and the ground that you till
will yield little more
than your small heart can fill.

Ira Chernus gives us
something to chew:
a rabid anti-Semite
in a self-hating Jew

RMPJC
this ode is for you
beware of your hatred
it will consume you too.