A missed connection: the rise of "private" prisons and the rise in "product," er, prisoners. Is it a stretch to imagine a loyal bushie lobbying for more profit-makers?

Some day, if they don't take over the internet too, people won't have to depend on the MSM and it's Joe Kleins to get their information. Might take another generation, but we can start by canceling all their subscriptions and blocking their channels on our tv sets. There are lots of alternatives now.

As far as the MSM goes, I like Olbermann on Countdown. I guess I can't get rid of that channel :)

This same line of thinking is what keeps corporate criminals from similar fates. It is amazing that just because these people do not pull a trigger on somebody that they are exempt from the law. Whether it is witholding or misreporting studies that cast doubts on the safety of products, embezzeling money, failing to ensure the safety of their workers, just because these are mostly rich white men, their actions could not have been in poor taste. These corporate criminals, or the criminals in D.C., are responsible for many more deaths, injuries, and suffering than the average person on death row(Some of whom may be entirely innocent...eg Mumia Abu-Jamal). Thank you to Campos for sticking a foot in a pool of thought that is rarely noted in any print source.

If we were to out all those in Washington who are up to their ears in sleazy dealings, we could fill the jails with media types, politicians, and high ranking bureaucrats! Once publicly shamed, and duly incarcerated, maybe they would begin to understnad a little more about "justice".

In order to increase deterence, instead of a Scarlet letter we could have an entire Scarlet alphabet tatooed in forever visible flourescent ink on their foreheads and the top of their right hand--students of the Biblical book of Revelation will appreciate this!

A=adultery
B=bribes
C=criminal conspiracy
D=Derelection of duty
E=Extortion
F=Fornication

You get the idea. You can suggest your own "letters" for the Scarlet alphabet but the important thing is that we start a test program with our "leaders".

This is so that they can set a sterling example by being thus branded in order to drive home the point that "law and odrer" is what we are all about.

Let's do what other places do to keep people out of jail. If you steal, your hand gets cut off. You don't steal again.

I think lying to the grand jury, let's cut out his tounge. No reason for jail then.

Poor Mr. Libby. He shouldn't be expected to do time with the common folk, Heck No! He should be left to the tender mercies of the Bible People who are prompting the psychotic monkey and the ugly fat man to even greater crimes. The Bible People will simply stone him to death in the market place, and shout Hosanna!, as his carcass is raptured up to the heavens.

What does the I. stand for anyway?

there's lots could be said on this, but anybody who starts peeking at the "justice" system in this country quickly realizes how incredibly f'd up this country is.

the u.s. is #1 in prison population. "...land of the free and home of the brave..." indeed.

(and why do these mainstream writers constantly preface their remarks by saying, "many of these people do need to be locked up." how do they know that? police and prosecutorial misconduct is rampant in this country. how about a little presumed innocent, even for those in jail?)

spike
"incarcerate"

The criminal justice system is...well, criminal. As one who suffers from chronic pain syndrome, there is one case that stands out as particularly offensive. I don't know how many people have heard of Richard Paey, but he is a man serving a 25 year prison sentence in Florida for possession of drugs (Percocet) with intent to distribute. The drugs he had in possession had been prescribed to him by a physician for treatment of chronic pain due to MS and failed back syndrome. He is wheelchair bound. When arrested by the DEA, they weighed the Percocet in his possession and included the weight of the acetomenophen (Tylenol)as being part of the narcotic (oxycodone) in possession. Then when sent to prison, he was implanted with a morphine pump that delivers more narcotic to his system than that which he was prescribed and arrested for. When he came up for parole not too terribly long ago, Governor Jeb Bu$h, a person who undeniably has dirty hands with various questionable business and governmental actions, denied him freedom.

The War on Drugs might as well be called the War on the Constitution. Because of this "war", we now have blatently unconstitutional laws such as the Asset Forfeture Law, which allows law enforcement agencies to confiscate property from those caught in possession of drugs. I have even seen episodes of the television show "Cops" where in a sting operation, the cops sold drugs to an individual then arrested them for possession and "confiscated" their vehicle. The law enforcement agencies get to sell this "confiscated" (I prefer to say stolen) property and keep the proceeds for their agency. The Fifth Amendment of The Bill of Rights states "No peron shal be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise imfamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without the due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation." Plainly the asset forfiture laws violate this Amendment, yet our "justice" system turns a blind eye to this crime. Further, there have been many cases in which a person has been arrested, tried, and sentenced without having an attorney to represent him/her whatsoever, which is also blatently unconstitutional per the Sixth Amendment of the Constitution (this was at one time "fixed" by the infamous case of Gideon vs Wainright, but at present there are many imprisoned without having had the benefit of an attorney.)

The War on Drugs, just as Prohibition, is a war of morality based on "Christian" morals. There is no reason whatsoever, at least in my opinion and I challenge those who disagree, that a person should not be able to consume whatever they choose to consume, as long as they do not physically harm anyone else in the process, and do so in the privacy of their own home and not place the public in danger. This goes for ALL drugs. Many peope use drugs such as morphine, oxycodone, codeine, methamphetemine (yes, it is legally manufactured by big pharma), barbiturates (sleeping pills), and cocaine (eye surgery anesthetic) without harming a soul. At the same time, many people consume alcohol, which is legal, and either kill themself or others in vehicle accidents or other accidents, become extremely violent, become physically addicted (delerium tremens), and become offensive to others. Further, marijuana, which has never killed or physically addicted anyone ever, and been proven to be medically beneficial in the treatment of glacoma and chronic pain remaines unconditionally illegal.

Neither I nor anyone else should be forced to suffer from chronic pain or any other malady unless he/she gets "permission" from a doctor (it seems that most of what physicians now do is "prescribe" drugs egally and make a fortune doing so) to take a medication that will relieve their pain. How is it "moral" or "Christian" to make people suffer because they happen to disapprove, on the basis of religious or personal grounds, of the use of a particular substance?

The war on drugs has no reason to exist other than it makes a lot of money for a select group of people (drug dealers, cops, prison guards/private prisons, doctors, attorneys, and last but certainly not least, the government who believe it or not contributes to the importation of illegal drugs. Notice I didn't say "our" government. However, as taxpayers, this same war is robbing us blind as we spend billions of dollars annually enforcing these drug laws. In the meantime, the use, availability and potency are increasing while the cost of illegal drugs drop for the users.)

We are at war in another country at present in order to give them "democracy." I suggest that before we go all around the globe forcing "democracy" at the end of the barrel of a gun, we start here and insure we practice what we preach!!! The prohibition of drugs must be ended. We survived as a very successful nation for over 130 years without any drug laws whatsoever. There is no reason we cannot and should not do so now. What you do to and with your body is your business, no one elses. As Thomas Jefferson said, "Laws provide against injury from others, but not from ourselves." He was right on target!

Shawn: I agree. In the 60's like other student HS activists I went to protests, and I'll never forget half a million of us on the WHITE HOUSE lawn, passing so many joints, singing as we burned effigies of Richard Nixon, the hated. The conservatives watched, bid their time and strategized. How could they disenfranchise this group? They would make the drug of choice, marijuana, illegal... and as an added caveat, where the southern conservatives hiding behind their Bibles, both wanting capital punishment and desiring that the 10 Commandments (stating NOT to kill) be hung boldly in US courts of purported justice got a new version of slavery. Due to the disproportionate incarceration rate of darker hued persons, many of whom perform prison jobs to the tune of pennies per hour, the prison-industrial complex is tantamount to a new take on slavery. This country IS a laughing stock to the world, like the fat slob with money who no one will insult to his face... and it keeps getting uglier.

". Due to the disproportionate incarceration rate of darker hued persons, many of whom perform prison jobs to the tune of pennies per hour, the prison-industrial complex is tantamount to a new take on slavery."

Souixrose (neat name! are you Souix per chance?), you are absolutely right. I don't know if you have seen any documentaries or know of Angola Prison in Louisiana, but it is an old working plantation which was converted to a prison, and is now worked by inmates. This prison make enormous amounts of money while paying inmates pennies per week. The majority of the prison's population is of course, black.

There have recently been new federal laws created that expand on the use of inmates for labor. Meanwhile, Kellogg, Brown, and Root (a branch of Cheneyburton) has been awarded a multi-million dollar no bid (of course) contract to build "detention centers" to be used to house mass influxes of immigrants "or other uses." I wonder what these "other uses" might possibly be? Then we have Rex-84, a plan devised by Oliver North to implement martial law in the event of a "national disaster." Just last week, Preznit Bu$h announced his plan to "take over" government operations in the event of such an "emergency" so as to maintain the integrity of governmental functions.

Perhaps it is simply my own paranoia, but it seems as though the framework of a "legal" system of slavery to be utilized by our elite is getting fairly well established.

Finally, I am utterly outraged by the number of people imprisoned in the U.S. There are probably at least half of these imprisoned on victimless drug law violations. In the meantime, Bu$h, Cheney, Condi, Seedy Gonzales, and probably three fouths of the Bu$h Administration are guilty of some of the most heinous crimes imaginable yet chances are they will retire and live out the rest of their pathetic days in sickening luxury. American Justice is an oxymoron!!! The only people who see "justice" in the land of the FREE and home of the BRAVE (what a ridiculous phrase, most of our leaders are draft dodgers, and our own preznit even went AWOL from a completely risk free military assignment obtained by daddy...the spineless cowards) are those who wouldn't know a hand callous caused by working from a wart yet still have more money than they could ever consider spending. How about the land of the hypocrites and home of the sheep?

"...southern conservatives hiding behind their Bibles, both wanting capital punishment and desiring that the 10 Commandments (stating NOT to kill) be hung boldly in US courts of purported justice got a new version of slavery."

I recently read a proposed compromise by a progressive commentator who suggested that "The Sermon on the Mount" be posted in lieu of the 10 Commandments in order to accomidate the "Christians." The 10 Commandments he argued is based on the Old Testement, which is correct. Therefore the pseudo-Christians should be more than satisfied with the proposed compromise. Any bets that they wouldn't accept this compromise? Just not "Christian" enough!

In addition to decriminalizing drugs and poverty-as-crime, we should move to a system that doesn't have prisons in the first place, but centers of sympathetic rehabilitation where people can truly change from criminals; not the cages where people are raped and beaten by the other prisoners and guards that we have now.

http://www.dreamingearth.net

Enforced exile solves all problems in a most humane way.

First of all the misfits are removed from society. (let's also start at the top and get rid of the bureaucrats, elected representatives who are not, and corrupt businessmen)

Next, we neither have anyone's blood on our hands nor are we forced to become the nannies these guys and gals never had.

Finally, we enforce the reality on all such accused and convicted that they will either reform themselves or be confined to a society made up of the likes of their own for the rest of their natural lives. Meanwhile, the rest of us can move on.

It is up to them--either they make their place Devil's Island or if they can get it all together maybe create "New Australia".

Will the last rationally-thinking person to leave USA , please turn out the lights

Shawn: I can't remember if I saw an independent documentary on Angola, or if it was part of 60 minutes; but yes, I am aware. What struck me most is the way that in accord with state's rights, the SAME crime can merit quite different levels of punishment on a state by state basis, and Angola had some of longest, most punitive sentences available. As for the punishment to be meted out to the TRULY deserving, i.e. our political operatives who murder with apparent impunity, as I have made plain in many prior postings, the LAW of karma will take care of them. It is imperative that human beings act for justice; but there ARE forces in America that are blocking our efforts. I suppose it could be argued that similar forces were engaged to block Civil Rights, but there were not as many police or armed uninformed demi soldiers in our midst, there was not outright surveillance or secret prisons, a blurry line between terrorist and person who disagrees with outrageous US domestic and foreign policies, nor was congress quite as bought and paid for, all three branches imploding rather than check-balancing one another; and a media ENTIRELY sold out and complicit with the directives of its corporate masters. Looking at THESE odds and then consulting certain species of stellar equations, I use the pen and hope it's still mightier than the sword; and pray for that higher justice that all people with OPEN hearts believe in. This, too, shall pass... (albeit, not quickly or easily.) A friend and I have made it our practice to REALLY build up stamina, as he thinks America may see neighbors fighting over food, the systems of transport breaking down, and he is considering a way to live on an offshore island, has learned to use a bow and arrow, and beef up his survival skills. His example seems prophetic to me.

Ron White: thanks for the humor. Tell them to flush the toilet, too, would you?
Oh, and Shawn... it's my pen name!

Paris Hilton and Scooter should have been convinced much earlier in their life that if you misbehave you get punished.

The people that covered Paris's and Scooter's ass when they got in small trouble did not do them any favors.

The regular folks out in the real world get their ass kicked hard for small mistakes early on. Most of them behave most of the time after that.

>"Paris Hilton and Scooter should have been convinced much earlier in their life that if you misbehave you get punished."

Preznit Bu$h (and his sidekick dead-eye Dick) is another that needed (and does now more than ever) to learn that there are consequences for violating the law. Unfortunately, Poppy always got the little peckerwood out of whatever jam he happen to get himself into. Now that he has destroyed what used to be a pretty decent country, neither Poppy or anyone else can solve what should be his problems but, unfortunately belong to all of us. We are the unwitting victims of a mistake made by Mother Nature in the process of natural selection. Of course come the end of his term (if it ever does actually come to a relieving end) he and Dickster Cheney will split to Paraguay and leave the rest of us holding the bag.

That anyone is even considering a pardon for Scooter is infuriating, but the powers that be could really care less what we peasents have to say. Thing were this way even in the '70s as Nixon got away with his many crimes. What can we do short of an armed revolution to get our country back? We all sent the message back in November that the status quo was not cutting the mustard. What have we received as an answer to that message? A big middle finger salute and spit in our eye. The democrats and republicans are two nuts in the same shell, a pecan or a peeecan. The elite only get their just deserts if and when the people en masse get angry enough to fight back and insure they are punished for their misdeeds. There isn't a sole among us, the ordinary people who actually work (and make it possible for this country's elite to exist in the first place) who would have received the same treatment as Paris Hilton. Any one of us would have gone to jail on the first offense...it happens every day. I read about it daily in our local newspaper, locals are going to jail everyday for driving while their license is invalid, and nobody ever gets off with DWI. Many get six months jail on the first offense, and I actually know one guy who got six months jail, two years license suspension, a year of probation, and had to put an alcohol interlock breathalyser in his vehicle so if he had alcohol in his system, the vehicle wouldn't start.

I guess my father was right when he taught me the golden rule which is; they who have the gold make the rules. How so unfortunatey true. However, there is another rule that the beloved Murphy defined, and that rule states that a Smith & Wesson beats four aces. If the elite continue their push for exemption from the rules the rest of us must abide by, they may just find themselves holding the four aces that get beat. Oh well... ain't it great to live in a country where the biggest failure and screw-up that ever lived to walk the face of the Earth can grow up to be preznit...twice!!!

Souixrose, even if this is your pen name, it is a great one! You done good in picking one.

Thank you Paul. Your articles are always spot on.

Wilhelm... B.J. in Kzoo.

Regarding differences among states in sentencing-no one should feel immune. Here in Wisconsin we were one of the most liberal and tolerant states in the US. Fourteen years of "Toxic Tommy Thompson" as Governor have put us into a situation of one of the highest incarceration rates in the country and wages declining precipitously. This prison-industrial complex will take many years to dismantle even if progressives take over most high ranking elected posts. Prisons now act as de-facto jobs programs especially in rural areas.
Shawn;you're a newcomer to this site? Siouxrose's writing is even more enchanting than her pen name.

Well klever, as far as being a participant yes, I'm a newcomer, but I've been reading Common Dreams for quite some time. It's a great source of news and commentary. And from what I have seen, I would have to agree on Souixrose's writing. Seems like a great thinker as well as a great person!

I lived in neighboring Minnesota for several years (skiied at Telemark quite a bit on weekends while in high school many years ago (Watergate days if that tells you anything!). Also had some friends/ski teammates from Hudson, Wisconsin, but again, unfortunately many years ago. I had a lot of good times over there!

So Libby's sympathizers are playing the Paris Hilton card. Well,I suppose I actually got some guilty pleasure out of watching the Paris Hilton drama. It was mean and petty of me, but it was fun. Why? Because here's a darling of our common idiocy, a person whose existence we're aware of merely because her family has money, an alleged sex symbol whose sensuality is based upon a spectaclist notion of sexuality to begin with. She's never had anything to say that is in any way enlightening, but she's venerated as though her daily utterance is worth listening to. In short, she's dumber than a post. She is the living proof that all the "percs" and money in the world do not neccesarily produce excellence, but also stupidity to the nth degree. Now all of a sudden she runs afoul of our extremely arbitrary and capricious "criminal justice" system, and she's seen as a victim. Funny, she never had any concerns about it before. Now she's a martyr in the minds of her public. She's a joke, put her public isn't laughing. Why not, boys and girls? Isn't everything still okay under the shiney steel grey free market sky?

And now Libby's supporters are playing the same tune? Man, It's time for some music lessons in the good old you ess of ay.

Good artice, many good comments. I would like to add that the numbers suffering from our war on drugs are far greater than those we send to prison. For each person in prison (usually jail for short offenses - often repeatedly) there is a family who suffers. Debt, divorce, shame and rejection by their neighbors, but more important financially. Loss of job, temp work at low wages, debt, children living in poverty, and an intense desire to continue to drop-out of the productive main stream. Health care, education, and family stability all suffer. The flip side of course, is that like abortion which should be legal and extremely rare, drug use (alochal included) needs to lose its addictive power and become moderate. Food also falls into this category -- you don't need to legislate against cheesburgers, or spinach -- both should be part of a moderate and well balanced diet. It's time for major change, not just holding Bush and company but all our elected officials responsible.

SHAWN & KLEVER: You brightened my day! Thanks for empowering my sense of HOPE, as I have written some very visionary movie scripts and thus far NEVER gotten a nod from an agent or a producer. This medium is such a powerful one to touch souls and raise consciousness, and I am a great believer that if enough people "woke up" the energetic shift in let's call it cognitive frequency, could itself start a revolution of a different sort.
JMDodge: Moderation is a way of being that can be emulated but hardly taught, particularly in a land of excess and boastful surfeit of the senses. I take seriously the Biblical adage, "He (she) who conquers himself is greater than he who conquers a city." There are so many temptations when we take on this cloak called flesh, especially in this 21st century where all things have been commercialized to the point the sacred has been rendered a plaything by those who have no knowledge of what they abuse. In this climate of depravity, those who are not by nature given to self-discipline have an exceedingly hard time. America's mantras might as well be "more, bigger, faster, better..." sure. And the climate is showing us where this NON-philosophy of conservation takes us!
ESHU: When my marriage broke up early in my daughters' lives and I struggled as a single Mom to raise them with some modicum of stability and financial balance, I used to tell them (as they would compare their lives with richer kids, who got cars automatically on their 16th birthdays. These kids learning NOTHING about the principle of earning, or the patience that builds character in pursuit of a goal) "You got looks and intelligence. When God runs out of gifts... s/he gives money." That explains Bush, doesn't it? NOTHING of substance left in Creator's box of assets to pass out (think of this as a fairy tale allegory), no sensitivity, no passion (in its best sense), no poetry, no intelligence... all right, place this one in a family with old money.

Prison, like military service, is for the great masses in the underclass. Rich, spoiled preppies who attend ivy league universities simply don't belong there. It's their job to send the underclasses to prison and to war.

You guys are great. Thanks CommonDreams.

the US government are putting non-violent people in prison and giving them long sentences, and releasing the real criminals, such as murderers, rapists and other hardened criminals, so they keep the city police departments busy. but the government knows that within ten years there will be 100 million US citizens out of jobs and the only way we can compete with China and the other countries that pay their workers pennies an hour is to use the non-violent prisoners to make these parts in prison. that's why they lock up the pot smokers, whom are non-violent and don't give the guards a hard time and are also very intelligent. soon the prison system will be the biggest and newest manufacturers of goods that are now made elsewhere around the world, mostly using child labor and make about 50 cents per day. the criminals that work for the prison system also make about 50 cents a day. The prison system is the only department that congress allocates more money along with the military, than any other department. that is why the government is trying to propagandize the evils of marijuana so they can jail and then put into the prison system. and to make room for them, they are allocated more money to make more prisons or let out the murderers to make room for the non-violent marijuana smokers. Murderers and rapists cause trouble for the guards and most don't work. but the pot smoker are mostly pacifists and peaceniks, whom will be forced to work for low wages. this is what is coming. there are now 72 ex-military bases that were closed down and soon will be used to house the non-violent pot smoker to manufacture the goods that are now being made in the third world countries. if you can't see it coming then i don't know what to tell you. and as long as people keep voting for the Republican party, which is nothing more than a cult, i predict my words will come true within ten to fifteen years, or posssibly sooner. but the american people who voted this cult into congress deserve what they get-which will soon be overtaken by the military when congress reverses the "possi comma tatis" law. Then the powers that be will go into the "TALON" computer program and pick out which citizen is needed to do a particular job and they'll arrest them under fraudulant reasons, just so the prison system can manufacture that particular piece to compete with China. the military has already got their foot in the door working along with their civilian conterparts who would arrest and jail that person and then send him to prison to work for low wages.

I saw an interesting article on another website today. The article was about a new drug hitting the headlines in Dallas. Its street name is "cheese" and it is a combination of Benedryl (diphenhydramine) and tar heroin. This stuff is cheap (two bucks a pop) and obviously addictive, since the main component is heroin. But the article went on to perpetuate a lie that has been around since Harry Anslinger's days...they stated that they are seeing almost as many kids coming in to rehabs addicted to this stuff (again heroin) as they see kids that are addicted to marijuana. Addicted to marijuana? Marijuana IS NOT ADDICTIVE, at least not physically!!! This kinda crap from the powers that be keeps people thinking that alcohol (physically addictive yet legal for corporate America to profit from, kinda like nicotine, one of the most addictive and deadly substances known) is okay, but marijuana is a dangerous addictive drug when in reality, the opposite is the truth. This is the stuff that bad policy thrives on, and the war on drugs is bad policy. I would bet money that there are a lot of people out there who think that by locking up pot users, we are saving thier lives. We have one stupid, mislead, and gullible population. Lord...is there any hope for us?

Guess that in today's climate the Constitution, much like the Geneva Conventions, is now considered to be a "quaint" document, easily dismissed and undermined.

Shawn: The truth about pot/marijuana. When I lived in Puerto Rico places that sold alcohol actually (these local bars) had signs posted stating that no one was ALLOWED to talk about politics. Why? Alcohol is tantamount to FIRE in the blood and makes some people VERY aggressive. It's obviously linked to fatal car crashes, and it statistically figures into hate crime and domestic abuse cases (which are rampant in the U.S. I believe I read that the number 1 reason women are admitted to emergency rooms in the U.S. is due to violence on the part of their spouse or boyfriend). Alcohol can get mean and ugly. It's a HUGE supporter of macho sports, too, especially beer and my mentioning of this got me slammed by two guys on this site that I 'virtually really like.' POT on the other hand is as YIN as it gets. One of my favorite memories as a teen was being in DC as THOUSANDS of us passed joints right on the lawn of the White House. (Imagine that scene now!) as we burned effigies of the hated Richard Nixon. I have posted this observation before. The Carl Rove types watching this scene realized they could not take our right to vote away, but they could do an end run by making the drug of choice, pot, illegal. And that's what they did. Then it was zero tolerance... what happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? What happened to UNREASONABLE searches and seizures, like how reasonable is a nation of adults taking piss tests? I remember this very straight looking middle aged woman asking me for MY urine as I did coffee at a little place in Gainesville. Had to decline. I went inside (as that was my morning "regular spot") to inquire quite loudly if anyone had clean urine and would please SELL it to this woman for $10. Years later I met a guy who said he had to borrow a "urinator." I asked what that was... some device apparently advertised in High Times magazine that simulates the male organ and holds the precious CLEAN yellow stuff, conveniently operated when one goes for the proverbial urine test. I mean is our nation a comedy of errors or what? Unless someone is REALLY unstable, bi-polar or off kilter, POT makes them peaceful; and that is why pot is so feared in this land of armed madness, pro-militarism, near worship of violent body contact sports, etc. POT is the peace pipe. PEACE is not acceptable in a nation that aspires to be number one in the procurement, development and sales of all form of lethal weaponry. (Micheal Moore could add this as a sequel to his film on US gun violence.) I think Indians figured out the only way to placate the white settlers who wanted to kill them was to sit down and smoke the peace pipe. Yeah, maybe it was tobacco... maybe not. I saw a documentary where they found traces of marijuana as well as cocaine in ancient Egyptian corpses. Guess those societies didn't just say no.

Siouxrose:

Some input from personal experience with marijuana.I am bi-polar and 30 years ago I smoked a great deal of grass with no apparent bad effects. It was necessary to overcome the depression first before the high set in. People I partied with would question the authenticity of my full sized cherry pipe.
For any still reading this thread who yet believe the BS that pot is addictive I offer the following. After a period of about 18 months of heavy daily smoking I wanted to stop. This precipitated only 2 pleasant twinges the next day. Had several weeks of discomfort upon quitting Pepsi.