Either establish family planning clinics for all the women of the World, or the population explosion will drive the human race to ecocide and self-extinction.

Lairdberg, I consider myslef pro-life also. I don't like the idea of abortion. Few people do. I think that's why there's been a change in the language used by people who support reproductive freedom. People who want to make abortion illegal or restrict access to it are now called "anti-abortionists" or "anti-choicers". However, people need to realize that outlawing abortion really just creates more problems than it solves, and as another poster pointed out, countries where abortion is safe and legal see lower instances of it.

What's really sad about all of this, is that we're politicizing something that should be personal. The issue of abortion shouldn't even a ball in play on the political court.

Abortion, Gay Marriage etc. are all used by the 2 political parties as political wedge, emotional hot button issues to divide people and distract them from the important issues like the corporate take over of Democracy, the fact that the media is concentrated in a small number of hands and is no longer free, that the constitution was shredded, the economy is tanking despite what the shills in the MSM say and what the DOW Is doing, that America's defunct foreign policy has us headed for more disastor, and what is really happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. These are the issues we should all be coming together on and organizing about as they impact all of us!

I'm not saying issues like Gay Marriage and Abortion aren't important I'm just saying politicans use them to divide us. Regardless of where you stand on these issues please realize its important that we wake up and recognize this fact.

Historically anti abortion was more on the Catholic agenda. Right wing religious fundamentalist jumped on this issue to give them some moral credibility. Lets face it they are not really christians but freely embrace the old testament with all it's retribution, revenge, eye-for-a-eye, etc. and they give little attention to the christian virtues of universal love, forgiveness, tolerance, peace, etc.

It is relatively easy to be self righteous and caring about someone or thing that doesn't exist. But (as stated above and by many) as soon as that person comes into existence they abandon them. Your on your own now buster, with poverty, starvation, jail and prison, war and capital punishment awaiting your unfortunate outcome if you slip up.... and it will always be your fault and not societies.

Many of these revengeful fundamentalist who so easily are stampeded into supporting unjust wars and capital punishment for the disenfranchised do not even make the connection that christ died from the capital punishment of his day.

I am a long time strict vegetarian and believe killing for ones jaded tastes is morally wrong and that a karmic price will very likely have to be paid. But I do not stand at grocery store check out counters, restaurants, or picnics and scream at people that is they are going to hell. This is their moral choice and I can't make it for them.

We must realize what we can or cannot legally control and that we can make personal moral choices independent of others and societal laws.

Both sides, Democrats and Republicans are guilty of using issues such as abortion to distract the public. Politicians love these divisive issues; flag burning is another example. It is very strange that religious groups will support Republicans because of their stance on abortion, although global warming and war will cause much more human suffering.

I wonder aloud -- should we take a look one step back in the process, the sex act that begets the "with child" and suggest that that process be outlawed? Or, at least, the little blue pill that could be contributing to the "life inside" - I mean, after all, if you're not wanting children should you be engaging? -- I imagine should that perspective be considered, the idea of the state telling someone when you can have sex and that it is illegal unless for reproductive purposes. Then, finally, all people might ban together to say, hey "Pro-choice" -- just wondering 'allowed'/aloud.

As someone who is a "pro-lifer," I disagree with the automatic stereotyping of what I believe about life. I am against ALL forms of violence--abortion, the death sentence, war, gang violence, violence against protestors, etc. As a matter of fact, I abhor and condemn violence perpetrated against abortion clinics, workers, doctors, and patients. I still consider myself a feminist and a progressive, as well as a pacifist. My beliefs follow a consistent life ethic. I have no problem with the use of preventive birth control, and I give of my meager means to help as many people in poverty as I can. I also try to keep my carbon footprint as tiny as possible. I believe in working on solutions and making changes in our society that benefit all of our citizens and immigrants, so that we genuinely fulfill our Constitution's promise to "promote the general welfare." I am not alone in my beliefs. There are Atheists and Agnostics for Life, Pagans for Life, Wiccans for Life, and pro-life organizations in other religions or belief systems as well. Some pro-life organizations are not affiliated with religions--including the organization that has my membership: the Feminists for Life of America. So, please, my brothers and sisters, realize that some of us are your allies; we didn't vote for this administration, and we want it out of here as much as you do.

Schizos: That's what they are, the anti-abortionists. They will be the first ones to rally for more war and (killing) but think their holy asses can be saved by attacking women's rights. Sick, that's what men and women are who believe they can force opinion and belief onto others. The only cure for these pro lifers is to be impregnated with twins every couple of years. That goes for the men too.

iwarrior: Good points! I say a nation or people's enlightenment is evidenced in the liberties it extends to all people, and that includes women! This focus on genitals while Iraq is burning is something else. Imagine if there is some form of a judgment day, or if each citizen must stand before "the board of karmic arbiters" and explain WHY they held the positions they did while on the earth. I can just imagine all those "oh so devout" evangelical Christians (and Arabs who murder their sisters for "honor crimes,") explaining how moral their anti-abortion stance was, when they could think NOTHING of the state-sanctioned murder of a sovereign nation's people of ALL ages, too many being live children!

I would rather see us follow the principles of our Constitution (for a change) and remove the federal government from the abortion decision. Decisions of life and death, crime and punishment are the territory of State governments. As are the police that enforce the laws.

The federal government is too far from the people, too easy to whip into frenzy over communism, terrorism, drugs etc to be fair and just.

Local enforcement can get out of hand too but the smaller the tyrants the better.

As for abortion - I am as opposed to it as I can be. Several thoughts and FACTS come to mind:
1. We live in a democratic republic - the majority favors abortion under some circumstances.
2. The procedure is too easy to ban - back alley abortions are dreadful
3. Where abortion is illegal there are more abortions.
4. A quote I heard attributed to Martin Luther - You can't keep the birds from flying through the air, but you can keep them from nesting in your hair. - In other words prevent sin in your own life before you pursue others. (a few televangelists might try this)
5. God gives us free will - I always consider that before I recommend controls on individual personal liberty. Bu$h the inferior has put himself in the place of God - we can all see where this gets us. The Chinese government also thinks it is God when it REQUIRES ABORTION - something we should all be opposed to.
6. Many of the big anti-abortion religious right say we should base our laws on the ten commandments - Still waiting to see those covet statutes(9th&10th) and the ones designed for us to have no other gods(1st) and preventing us from taking the name of God in vain(2nd).
7. Also for Christians, Jesus said that he gave us a new commandment - Love one another. NOTE that this is a command to act. Lets pass some laws on this one - decent health care, education.

One thing that is getting missed here:

Some countries with safe, legal abortion have fairly low abortion rates(Austria is an example).

Some countries with illegal abortion have a high rate of abortion.

I personally favor reproductive rights. However, attitudes on that topic vary considerably from state to state. I'd be surprised if more than 30% of the electorate in Utah shares that sentiment.

My feeling is the best way to guarentee reproductive rights isn't necesarily by keeping the decision on abortion at the federal level.

There are other important issues here. Increased economic inequality and slow jobs growth have had an enormously negative effect on reproductive rights-both the practical ability of women in conservative areas to move or to get services when needed-and the ability of even highly reponsible and hardworking young people to support a family in a practical sense if they really want to do so.

I tend to think that if states do get decision making on the area of abortion policy, then they also ought to get some real responsibilities in that area(i.e. perhaps some responsibilities for guarenteeing of minimal support to the children conceived in their borders so they can't just thrust unwanted children and their mothers into other jurisdictions with no penalities).

Abortion is going to be a hard issue to resolve. The conservative religious groups that oppose abortion are having quite a few kids-even if many of them don't stay with that tradition, more young people are experiencing that as part of their youth. Also, recent immigration has been from countries and populations that tend to be anti-abortion.

Originally, US politics tended to shy away from focusing on social issues. Nixon's staff purposefully put social issues in the spotlight in an attempt to divide the electorate and let the GOP money advantage take over(and cause division between Democrat Catholics and other Democrats).

I tend to think the counter attack is to focus more on issues around which a consensus might more easily be obtained-and which indirectly impact reproductive rights and deemphasize Roe vs. Wade as a line in the sand.

I supported Kucinich who I know dang well voted pro life part of the time(and in ways that I wouldn't have). However, it bothers me that a man of his integrity was pressured on this litmus test the way he was to participate in national democratic politics-and the range of options on the table is so narrow.

A question
Why is it that anti-abortionists are are pro death penalty.
Is it just me that sees the contradiction.

It's amazing how out of touch the anti-abortionists are with the rest of the country.

The reason the Republicans are against abortion is because it gets them votes and because they want to keep women down. They want women to get knocked up because they know it's going to help keep women poor and dependent on men. And we all know that people wo are born into poverty in this country have a hard time getting out of it.

The Right wants to outlaw abortion and birth control, yet they want to keep young people in the dark about sex. They know abstinence programs don't prevent unplanned pregnancies and STD's. That's why they push for them. They want young people to get pregnant and/or contract AIDS. The only fetuses they care about are the ones in the stomachs of wealthy women.

I think that progressives should start calling themselves "pro-lifers". Progressives are the ones who want to end war and the death penalty. They are the ones that want guns off of the streets. They are the ones that want to help insure that all people have a decent chance at LIFE. They're the ones that want to heal our sick planet and protect our wildlife. They are the ones that want to feed the hungry and make sure everyone has a job, a home, and access to a doctor.

If anything, conservatism is the culture of death and misery.

In his radio interview with Brian Lehrer (Public Radio WNYC in Yew York) Christopher Hitchens spoke of his new book "God is not great: How religion poisons everything."

I can't recall exactly but think Hitchens made the point that the religious folks insist that any pregnant woman bear the pregnancy to term; pay virtually nothing in support to the girl/woman during pregnancy; and are "out of here" once the baby is born. If those who preach religion can't see the hypocracy in this they either don't want to or are bloody stupid.

Nader4prez

I find it so hard to understand why such short-sighted fundamentalists propose that even more women and children live in poverty with even more unwanted pregnancies and the stress that places on the lives of their families.

The pro-lifers' utter lack of sense in not addressing female reproductive issues while opposing abortion in a world with 6.6 billion people bewilders me.

Did you know that America and (sob) Australia, where I live, are the only two countries that have placed a ban on the use of their foreign aid for the purposes of abortion information and clinics in developing countries? I find it so hypocritical.

As a result, it is estimated that 63,000 women die each year from botched back yard abortions and their attendant physical damage and/or disease.

How can developed countries do this? Don't you find it incredible?

On a lighter note - when you think how few 'matings' result in pregnancy and how many pregnancies end in miscarriage, would you say that the god(s) is the biggest proponent of abortion and acts on his/her/its thesis decisively?:-)

And shakker, it seems pretty obvious from the above figure, that the 'days of back alley abortions' appear to have never left us. Keeping one's pants on is a ridiculous alternative, considering how much air space and tabloid press coverage (plus the ginormous growth in pornography) is given to sex in repressive, religious societies. So, yes, I agree with you.

No-one likes abortion, but sometimes there is just no other option. To withhold decent treatment congruent with best health practice, is to throw these women into the illegal abortion trade (and the desperate ones will find an abortionist somewhere) with the potential for disease and death. It is mindbogglingly stupid and reeks of holier-than-thou attitudes of religion.

The fact of the matter is...

Clearly the Repubs will not end abortion because then they will focus the opposition and end support from religious groups that vote entirely against their own interests in an effort to end abortion. The plan is is scream about it and take tiny chips off of abortion to keep it as an issue for as long as possible.

I am opposed to actual abortions and would like changes made to avoid unwanted pregnancy, spread of disease, etc. A woman (and all people) should feel comfortable that any child born will be cared for by all of our society.

Making abortion illegal and telling people to keep their pants on will bring back the days of back alley abortions.

If abortion were legal and easily obtained, a morning after pill would resolve an unwanted pregnancy at the zygote, or clump of "undifferentiated cells without a heart or soul" stage. That abortion is made difficult means more late term abortions. Again, if fundamentalists are against abortion, it would seem they would support birth control, but they are militants against it. That leads one to conclude that their real purpose is to control women and their bodies.

I love it. All the children in the US that are in foster care or up for apdoption and they want more unwanted children.

Oh they will support ya while you're pregnant but once you have that child that you can't afford you're a welfare queen if you ask for help.

So have a kid you don't want, get arrested because you can't provide for it's needs and then they can spend the rest of their lives in Foster care limbo until they turn 18. Then they get thrown out on the streets.

I am so glad we are "saving" the embryo.