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The Dems' Self-Defeat on the Irar War Vote
The congressional Democratic leaders' big problem: they can't count.
Given the choice of funding the unpopular Iraq war or being accused by George W. Bush of succumbing to a defeatism that endangers America's security, a majority of senators and representatives clearly prefers Option One. This group is composed mostly of Republicans. But a slice of Democrats are within its ranks. Such a reality couldn't be hurdled by Democratic leaders in the House and Senate during the just-ended face-off over an Iraq war funding bill. The Democrats tried at first to have it both ways and ended up with nothing--except a flood of resentment from their core supporters. Amid the debris, there's a lesson for them.
Led by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, the Democrats thought they could cleverly force Bush to end (or, at least, begin ending) the war. They oppose the war, but their plan was to vote for Iraq war funds and attach a variety of conditions, including benchmarks and a withdrawal schedule, to the funding measure. Such a move would have both continued the war and established a glide path for its end (that is, the end of active US combat participation in the conflict). A few Democrats who wanted to just say no to the war bolted, but Pelosi managed to craft a Rube Goldberg measure that won the barest party-line majority possible. (There was doubt whether the legislation would do much in concrete terms, for it contained escape clauses Bush could exploit.) In the Senate, Reid, with his fellow Democrats aboard, passed a less complicated bill that called for beginning a withdrawal in several months. Next, the president vetoed the blended bill that subsequently emerged.
That was no surprise. For the Democrats, the question was, what to do next? Antiwar advocates, such as the members of MoveOn, demanded the Dems hang tough. Former Senator John Edwards, a presidential candidate, called for Pelosi and Reid to keep passing the same bill in defiance of Bush's veto, as Edwards sought to pressure two rivals, Senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The media portrayed the episode as a showdown between congressional Democrats and Bush. The key issue: who would blink first?
The answer came on Thursday night when the Democratic leaders of the House and Senate essentially turned tail and allowed votes on a $120 billion war funding measure containing weak benchmarks and little in the way of consequences should the Iraqi government fall short. GOPers provided most of the support for the legislation, but in the House 86 Democrats voted for it (including such leaders as Representatives Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel, James Clyburn and John Murtha). In the Senate, 37 of 50 Democrats went along. Toward the end of the vote in the Senate, Obama voted nay; then Hillary Clinton followed suit.
The war continues. No checks, no balances.
Grassroots and antiwar Democrats who expected their party's win last November to lead to the war's end are enraged. As they see it--and accurately so--a Democratic-controlled Congress has failed to halt or slow Bush's war in Iraq, even though public opinion polls show that a majority of Americans favor establishing a withdrawal timetable. And, worse, many Democrats have now voted to give the war, with the ongoing escalation, another chance. The Democratic Party leaders stand alienated from their base--while congressional Republicans, though out of step with popular sentiment, are in sync with their core supporters.
Was such an unhappy (for the Democrats) outcome inevitable? Probably. The Democrats do not have the votes to stop the war, even in their own caucus--unless they are audaciously willing to defy majority rule (say, by preventing war funding legislation from reaching the floor). Most House Democrats do favor withdrawing from Iraq. Days ago, 169 House Democrats (and two Republicans) voted for such a measure. And 28 Democratic senators voted for a similar bill. Yet a significant minority of Democrats are aligned with almost all the Republicans in opposition to a legislatively-mandated pullback. Some of these Democrats may believe in the war; many probably fear being blamed for the ugly consequences that could ensue in Iraq following a removal of US troops. In any event, the Democrats were mathematically destined to disappoint those hoping they would suffocate Bush's war in Iraq.
The denouement, though, did not have to be so dismal for the Democrats. If the Democrats had at the start not attempted to outfox an uncompromising commander in chief, they could have reaped the rewards of moral (or political) clarity. Had Pelosi offered a bill forcing a withdrawal of US forces within a year, she would have lost the vote on that measure. But she would have been in a position to declare, "Most of the Democratic Party want to end this war, but because some of our members (and practically all of the Republicans) disagree, we cannot pass legislation to achieve this...yet." A clear picture would have been painted: the war belongs to Bush and the Republicans.
After that, Pelosi could have permitted the Republicans to bring forward an appropriations bill for the war. The Democrats could have offered various benchmarks, conditions, timetables, and deadlines via amendments. Most would have failed, a few (but no withdrawal deadlines) might have passed. Again, there would be clarity. The narrative would have been that the Democrats first tried to stop the war and then attempted to place limits on the war. If they failed, they failed. Sure, there still would have been anger from the base at those Democrats who bucked the Democratic gameplan. But the party's grassroots and netroots--and the rest of the public--would have seen that the Democratic leadership had endeavored to change course in Iraq.
The House Democratic leaders can now contend that they did try to force a change on Bush and point to the 140 Dems who voted against the war funding bill. But this claim cannot overcome the appearance of Democratic strategizing gone awry. The Democrats created too much confusing context for their failure. Bush had a simple position: I want my war the way I want it, and if the Democrats don't give it to me, they'll be harming the troops and bear responsibility for whatever ill befalls America from the evildoers. The Democrats presented a series of hard-to-follow and hard-to-explain gyrations. They were rolled.
At the end of the day, Bush and the GOP--who are on the wrong side of public opinion on the war--came out political winners. And the Democrats looked divided, confused, and weak. Which brings me back to the first point. In politics, you can sometimes turn a liability (not enough votes) into an asset, if you play for a clean loss that sends the right message. That's not what happened on this round.
The match is not over. The war slogs on, and Congress will face another vote on war funds in the fall. Lawmakers of both parties are already saying that September will be the make-or-break month, meaning that if there are no obvious signs of progress by summer's end, even Republicans may start to proclaim enough's enough. "This is not the end of the debate," Pelosi asserted before voting against the war funding measure. She's right about that.
Pelosi and Reid will get another shot at Bush's war soon. Democrats should wonder what their leaders learned from this defeat.
Don't Forget about HUBRIS: THE INSIDE STORY OF SPIN, SCANDAL, AND THE SELLING OF THE IRAQ WAR, the best-selling book by David Corn and Michael Isikoff. Click here for information on the book. The New York Times calls Hubris "the most comprehensive account of the White House's political machinations" and "fascinating reading." The Washington Post says, "There have been many books about the Iraq war....This one, however, pulls together with unusually shocking clarity the multiple failures of process and statecraft." Tom Brokaw notes Hubris "is a bold and provocative book that will quickly become an explosive part of the national debate on how we got involved in Iraq." Hendrik Hertzberg, senior editor of The New Yorker notes, "The selling of Bush's Iraq debacle is one of the most important--and appalling--stories of the last half-century, and Michael Isikoff and David Corn have reported the hell out of it." For highlights from Hubris, click here.
© 2007 The Nation



46 Comments so far
Show AllBush and Cheny are dancing with delight these days. I predict that Bush, no matter the reality, will announce "significant gains" in September and the Dems will cave as usual. We desperately need a third party, one with backbone.
Where is Irar?
Between Iraq and Qatar?
Clark Kent: Just click your heels twice, and say "there's no place like Irar."
I wonder where I can buy a spine. I'm thinking of sending one to Harry Reid.
We don't need so-called leaders.
"Toward the end of the vote in the Senate, Obama voted nay; then Hillary Clinton followed suit."
What would their votes have been if their votes
were necessary for it to pass? Once it was clear
it was going to pass, they could "safely" have it
put on record they voted against it. (Though my
guess is Obama would have voted against it in any
case.) But leading from the rear is not leading.
If they had "led" instead of playing positional
politics perhaps some of the other cowardly Dem
senators would have voted differently. Were Obama
and Clinton waiting for the other to vote first?
Perhaps the votes should remain secret until
everyone has voted and then their votes revealed
to stop the game playing. Yeah, right.
We live under a political duopoly with a corporate master. Each party seeks power so that it can gorge itself on the money provided by the master to the winner so that it can do its bidding. This nation no longer represents people, it represents profit. Are you angry at the state of this nation yet?
I sure am, and would love nothing more than to end the tenure of these two political prostitutes. No offense to prostitutes.
For a great article on the state of the nation, I highly recommend "A Nation in Silent Anger" found at:
www.valenzuelasveritas.blogspot.com
If you haven't read this writer's work, surf his archives because you will not be disappointed.
Again WTF (Where's The Filibuster)? Senator Byrd could at least lead one as an act of good and supreme contrition for previously putting it to evil use against civil rights in '64.
Okay DEMs so now what? Support the troops with more war, support the troops with no benchmarks, support the troops with no checks/balances, support the troops with another surge and continued escalation of death and debt? The DEMs give yet another pass for President Bush, no president left behind I suppose. The DEMs are soft, same old same old, just like in Nov 2000, just like the Katrina aftermath in 2005, just like the continued the defacto support for war in Mar 2003, etc. etc. Even in the majority the DEMs are spineless enablers. No excuses this time, this isn't 1994-2006 when GOP ruled. Pelosi and Reid, just another set of the "same.." or is it B"...business, as usual" GOP and DEM members, nothing but DC cronies feeding at the carcass that we call Iraq and what will be come of the US What a major dissapointment. Even Jimmy Carter back tracked, for what - it was true and the progressives said finally. Ford only had the "guts" to speak his mind after death. I'm embarrassed for supporting these paper tiger DEMs, and more imporantly, I'm embarrassed for our country. Heck of a job Pelosi, heck of a job Reid, you both spent your "political capital" on this war bill. You had the country and the armed services on your side on this issue. The active progressives and the likes of Murtha and others speak out, and you left us out on a limb, just as you leave our troops in Iraq. The DEMs lack the will and discipline to end this war. I get it though, we have other issues to tackle, immmigration, clean air, minimum wage, etc - IT"S ABOUT ENDING THE WAR- first things first.
It is not "ABOUT ENDING THE WAR"!
It is about ENDING THE OCCUPATION!
It is not "about supporting our troups"
It is about supporting the forces of occupation.
Why is it that even here on Commondreams and similar sites we so generously conceed so much ground in these arguments when we do not label things as they are? It has never been a war. And our forces of occupation will need support when they return and try live their lives after what they have been thrown into. It is about how and when we support our forces of occupation. It is about how to end this occupation.
RichM is spot on! I believe it was the much villified Ralph Nader who said "if you keep supporting the lesser of 2 evils all you get is evil."
David Vest wrote in Counterpunch "What is truly evil is having to choose between the Village Idiot and the people he keeps outsmarting."
Both of these gentlemen are correct.
The democrats may be worse. At least the repubs stand by their priciples (however loathsome) and fight for their constituents (however corrupt) but the democrats constantly (say 40-50 years) betray theirs.
Watch for the Demo cadres, apparatchiks and enablers to trot out their usual crap of "well, at least we're better than the repubs" or "they don't have the votes so this is the best we can do until (fill in the blank)and then we'll (fill in the blank again)..."
Shakespeare, as so often, said it best in Richard III: "And thus do I Clothe my naked villainy."
I'll close with my usual: TO HELL WITH THE DEMOCRATS
Who honestly has as their purpose the identification and election of candidates who are both qualified to lead and also independent of the two party duopoly? Unless individual citizens commit themselves to real change (committed enough to actually vote for what they want and believe in), there will be no real change. That of course takes courage because there's always a chance you will lose.
http://www.gpln.com/renewourdemocracy.htm
Sure, Pelosi and Reid will get another shot at Bush's war in September, but it won't be because of anything that they did right---it'll be because the Republicans will be fed up with it by then too. The Dems are losers. We need a third party.
Why is it that even here on Commondreams and similar sites we so generously conceed so much ground in these arguments when we do not label things as they are? It has never been a war. It is Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq.
The Demo's oh we are making history we are electing a Woman speaker the first ever an what's the first thing she did?, take impeachment off of the table.If Pelosi in an example of a woman as leader do we want one as president? I don't think so. Granted Reid is just as bad but there are a couple of demo senators who still have guts Jim Webb and Russ Fenigold
I'm ready for a third party.
One problem with Mr. Corn's whole theory. Reid and Pelosi came out the day after the last election and promised that the war funding would pass the Congress. They just delivered on that promise. That was always the goal. The rest was just smoke and mirrors and bs to try to fool Americans into believing the leadership of the Democratic party opposed the war that they had already promised to fully fund.
BTW, the gutsy Sen. Webb voted YES. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00048
Pretty much what you'd expect when you elect Reagan's Sec of Navy.
This has got to be the WORST slap across the progressive anti-war Democratic voter's face that I have ever seen. If any free thinking Democrat has any common sense after this blatant disregard for their wishes by these spineless bunch of wimps, they would leave for a party that actually stands for something. The Green Party was the ONLY party that stood up and said "NO" to the invasion of Iraq before the first bomb was even dropped. They condemned the Patriot Act. We know what the Democrats did. And now this! The Green Party is small because many progressive Democrats keep hanging on to their party thinking things will change because people like Dean and the PDA dangle the carrot in front of them. I think this should open their eyes and prove once and for all where they really should be placing their energy for change. I'm going Green! I have a feeling many, many others are doing the same. www.gp.org
"anti-war Democratic voter" is an oxymoron. Or just a moron. :)
Because if you vote Democrat, you are not voting against the war. This party helped approve the war(s) to begin with. And they've lined up and voted for every supplemental appropriation the last five years. They voted to fully fund every Pentagon budget for the last five years. This war has always been a Democratic war. The only thing that changes is how they try to lie to cover it up and trick people into voting for them again.
If you favor the war, and want it continue, then Vote Democrat in 2008!
If you oppose the war, and want it to end, then you have to go somewhere else.
Sorry, I found the wrong vote when I searched Iraq. Looks like this time there was a voice vote so we don't know how Sen. Webb would have voted.
But he's still been on record several times as opposing any blocking or cutting of the money for war, death and destruction.
I agree that capitalism and US imperialism are at the center of the world's miseries. The big question is where to build a 3rd party. The Communist Party and the Socialist Workers Party probably have a combined membership in the US of under 2,000. The Green Party has the image of middle-class, white ecologists; it lacks teeth in class struggle. I say vote your conscience, but definitely vote 3rd party whenever you can. The Dems need to feel pain before they'll either become true small-d democrats or allow run-off elections and/or proportional representation. The collective political will of the Dems is to be an apologetic corporate whore. Dump them.
Dear Mr. Corn:
Dennis Kucinich is running for the Democratic nomination. He is also a Congressman. He takes principled stands. I don't expect the right wing corporate media that sucks to mention him.
Writers from the Nation should always include him and his positions in articles like yours.
Leaving him out would be like leaving Senator Eugene McCarthy out of the discussion in 1968 because he was not a candidate that was supported by the Machine.
Dennis Kucinich is for real, and you need to get with it.
The Democrats could have simply refused to pass a bill.
Their argument to counter the "support the troops" could be that the funds appropriated do not go to the troops. They go to Boeing and General Dynamics and Blackwater and General Motors and Halliburton and KBR and the rest.
Their is plenty of ammo for Swift Boat type ads in places like executive compensation and contract fraud.
But the Democratic leadership would never do that. It would mean standing up to their corporate paymasters.
McDee, your quote from David Vest made me think how much I miss Molly Ivins. She would have had a field day with this debacle of a vote on the occupation.
"What is truly evil is having to choose between the Village Idiot and the people he keeps outsmarting."
We do need at least a third party, proportional representation, runoff voting, same day registration, publicly financed campaigns, and an end to the insane idea that corporations are persons. The constitution never treated them as persons. And it limited the first amendment rights to natural persons and the printed press, for the explicit purpose of the press being a watchdog over the government. Yeah, right. Then maybe we will have a chance against the corporations ruling our lives, which the founders wanted to prevent at all costs. Read what they wrote. They did the best they could at the time, and pointed out that things change, and we may need to change how we govern. But they were very clear about the need to protect us from corporate power, as were many of our Presidents.
It seems to me the best ticket to work for is Edwards/Kucinich. If the public gets to know Dennis Kucinich, the media's best-kept secret, they will want what he can do for us.
Mr. Corn:
Can you provide some analysis that is DEEP and makes logical sense on just two facts and not a potpourri of things the Dems could have done and didn't do. I doubt whether ALL the Dems are that stupid that what you have thought out they didn't think out. You have to go deeper into what is going on and my two issues are meant to do that for starters.
With all due respect to many of the good folks on this site, please don't inundate my query with sophomoric slogans that I am dumb if I have not got it yet that capitalism is shit, the Dems are evil, green is the great white knight, Nader is the answer yada, yada, yada … I have read that ad nauseam now, and even a novice in politics knows that many of these "cause" titles are ok, but I am not interested in that type of fast food analysis. The discourse on this site has to move to a deeper level than the typical sound- bite/ slogan.instant answers to everything to understand the forces at work. No sound strategy by progressives will be formulated and implemented if the discourse here does not move to more nuanced and politically mature analysis of the issues grounded in real politik and not in hopeful fantasy.
Coming back to you Mr. Corn:
Here are just two the issues puzzling me:
1. Why did Murtha, who has the inside to the military brass and has been braying (which we have been told is channeling the "true" feelings of the military) the loudest on getting the troops back home, VOTE YES. He lost all credibility as a "troops home now" guru and much more. He would have lost nothing if had voted against the bill since it already had the votes from the Rep. and more than 100 or so "Leadership Council" Dems.
2. The most recent polls suggest that about 70% of the American public is against the war. Why are the Dems committing advance political suicide for 2008? There are at least 100 Dems in the House and about 10 or so Dem Senators who are progressive enough to start a third party with this level of national angst? Why is that not happening? Move. On org is corrupt - - it has 3 million subscribing members and has done preciously little in public view to get the nation out of this disaster and your mentioning that they "told" the Dems to "stand tough" is not supported by any PUBLIC ad campaign that I know of warning the Dems of the people's wrath that they ran prior to the vote.
Finally, to COMMOM DREAMS - - Why are there so few West Coast posts on this site as it is only 10:00 PM there?
The recent war funding vote in Congress has certainly given many readers of Common Dreams a great opportunity to attack Democrats, liberals, and the like in a huge variety of ways, while largely giving the real enemy, the Bushies, a free ride, and at times even praising them for being so single-minded in pursuing their policies of perfidy – an attitude that strikes me as being no different from admiring members of the SS for having been effective soldiers.
However, assuming that these commenters still retain a touch of common sense -- which their extreme anger makes nearly impossible = it is easy to suspect that what is actually happening here is that the Republicans have turned loose a pack of operatives to infiltrate this site, agents pretending to be progressives who have, with this vote, finally seen the light and now are pledging to end their support of the one party, the Democrats, that has any chance of heading off the steady drift ever deeper into an American form of totalitarianism.
The alternative that many of these outraged souls cite is a third party. But they're not taking into account the fact that this country is huge and quite possibly even oversized, which means also that it is embedded in inertia, in which matters have a very hard time making tight turns. Nothing illustrates this better than the fact that ever since the campaigns of 2000, the U.S. has operated without a real government in place. Instead it has had a bunch of gangsters operating out of the White House, the U.S. Capitol, and the Supreme Court building. Yet the U.S. as a whole is still functioning, though in a noticeably impaired state.
Therefore third parties are just wishful thinking, unless a way can be found to change the model for them, which so far has been to serve as mere vehicles for lone figures with low inspirational quotients, like Nader and Perot.
Meanwhile the Republicans would loudly applaud this splintering of their opposition, and after reading all this anti-Dem invective from supposed progressives, they will laugh and say "Keep it coming!"
Stop feeding the Beast. Vote Green Party.
RichM:
I am with you. Yes I do know about the rites and rituals of party loyalty the Dems.have to go though. This could explain some of the dynamic that has always been with Dems. My questions are posed in the present context. If the polls are correct, and 70% of the public is at various degrees of anger against the gang in power, then why is is it that nobody, even Kucinik noy channeling that anger towards a more vocal and visible effort? I say this because with 70%, you are in the territory of about 200 million Americans, and that is way past the 90 million monorities segment and deep into the white middle class. From the 100 million or so white middle class in that group, there must at least 1 million angry- as- hell persons to cough up $10 per person month for 3 months for Kucinik if he were to articulate his position with the help of a media savvy person like Michael Moore. Therefore my question is why is that not happening in the present context. Because if he did, he would be able to pressure the 100 or so half way house Dems to form a formidable pressure group inside the Dem party and threaten to split it if it does not listen to the people.
That is what is puzzling me. What is preventing Kucinik and other progressives to have a clever media campign funded by the 1 million middle-class whites I talked about above.
There's a simple solution to the often complicated realities of American politics: Vote Green!
Take the easy route: Simply declare the two-party system that has governed the United States for more than 200 years corrupt and vote for the fringe candidate who will get, at best, 5 percent of the vote. This allows you to avoid taking any responsibility for directly (or more accurately, indirectly) electing lousy people to positions of power.
Never mind that no third party has emerged as a real force (i.e., actually electing people to Congress) since the 1850s, which incidentally was the Republican Party. Just, hang tight and hope that history defies itself and a third party revolution occurs.
We don't need another hero.
All we need is a way home.
All we want life beyond
The Thunder Dome.
Sofarsogoo claims that 3rd parties are wishful thinking. This may be the case, but the wish at this point is not for a third party, but rather for a second party. We really don't have a true multiparty system in this country. Fundamental change will require a changes in the way we elect representation. This may seem an illusive goal, but it certainly will not happen by supporting candidates and parties that represent maintaining the current "balance of power". Voting for "third party" candidates may not be a sufficient condition to impart change, but it is a necessary condition. Until we stop supporting Democrats and Republicans they will continue to act as they have been. The Republicans suggest that we destroy the planet on Sunday and the Democrats hold the more moral position of waiting until Monday. I will admit that this Democratic position is clearly superior, but I will not get what I want by voting for it. Especially, since the Reps and Dems, in their infinite wisdom, have scheduled the vote for Tuesday.
I was a Dem for years. However, the last time that I voted for a Democrat was in November of 2000. It wasn't for Gore, but it was someone in his party. In fact I voted for a number of Dems in that election, mostly because I felt that they would do a better job than the Rep. running against them. However, since my vote for Nader was not a vote for Gore, I was accused and still am accused of causing the demise of the Gore's candidacy and the ultimate demise of the universe. In response I have never voted for a Democrat again.
The Democrats are akin to someone who is drug-ridden, malnurished and immunodeficient. Along comes the third party mesquitto, who stings the poor Democrat. The Democrat falls over dead, and all of the Dem's friends spend the rest of their days cursing the bug, when it was they who have been suppling the drugs all along.
The Dems take no responsibility for their losses and learn nothing. They will never achieve the goals of a progressive agenda. If you want peace in Iraq, or just want the US out, you have to vote for people who actually believe in these goals. The Democratic party, while having a number of somewhat decent people, are not worth supporting as a whole. Unfortunately, Russ Feingold, or Maxine Waters still end up supporting the leadership of their party. Consequently, whatever good these people can do is overshaddowed by the ineptitude at the top.
My support for third party candidates may be wishful thinking. I may be "throwing my vote away". However, the alternative is worse. If I vote for a Democrat I am throwing away my vote and my soul.
By the way, I once voted for a Republican. I must admit it. But his name is Dennis Peron and I think the circumstances were unique.
jimm_barr:
That entire response should be embossed in gold and sent to every clear thinking Democratic voter still left out there. The analogy of the Third Party mosquito being responsible for the death of the drugged-out Dem is perfect! The Democrats being blind to their own ineptness is even better. "If I vote for a Democrat I am throwing away my vote and my soul." Great statement. I could not have said it any better!
Is there anyone who DOUBTS that the Democrats can lose in '08? Once again, we have the DLC Democrats leading the party down to DEFEAT!!! Already the blogs are full of longtime Democrats bolting the party...and this has to be the tip of the iceberg since so many just opt out without announcing it.
In trying to find something positive from this vote, it's this: We have a SHORT LIST of who MUST BE CHALLENGED in their primaries. And it doesn't matter HOW LONG they've been in office.
If this party is to EVER get back to its base and represent the people rather than the corporations, we must place as our FIRST PRIORITY the CLEAN MONEY campaigns. Progressives UNITE!!!
###
Linda Sutton suggests in the post two back that we should start taking back the Dem party by ridding campaigns of dirty money.
And who's going to rid the corporate controlled politics in this country of A) Dirty money and B) Bought-off party leaders? Will it be the very party leaders themselves? Certainly not the party base! We saw this past week just how much power the base has!
I agree with Linda - Progressives unite... but then get the heck outta the corporate controlled party. It's so hurtful to one's psyche watching Democrat Progressives running their little hearts out on their exercise wheels in thier party cage, being told, "That's it guys. Keep going. We almost have the party where we want it!" When will they learn they are just being used for votes, not real progressive platform change. Party leadership, platforms and corporate money...it's all stuck together like stinky goo.
This is a great discussion! Jim Barr, you have beautifully expressed my views, although I haven't voted for a Democrat for President since 1968 - but same philosophy. After I held my nose and voted for George McGovern after he dumped Thomas Eagleton (the day after he promised to stand by him)I felt awful and decided I never wanted to hold my nose again to vote. And I'm a happier person.
But I do have a plan this time around. I will register Democratic (currently a Green) for the primary and vote for a progressive slate. If it wins, I will support it. If not, back to the Greens with letters to the Democratic leadership telling them exactly why I will not support their "party". In the general election I will vote for any surviving progressives. I am also campaigning for Kennis Kucinich, but am willing to support Edwards if he agrees to make Dennis his vice presidential candidate. I fugure this is the only way Dennis will ever get noticed by the MSM, which won't be able to ignore him, and the public will find out who he is.
Except for busily pulling the Republicans' pants down, the DLC Democrats have done little except give Bush all he wants for his occupation and then some, sell us out again on free trade and fast track for Bush, permit the oil companies to gouge us (except when the president declares an energy crisis -in your dreams!)and water down the ethics reform bill, bringing back the revolving door. Have I missed something? Oh yeah, we're supposed to get a VERY belated minimum wage increase, with a lot of goodies for business included. Of course, by now, in order to put us where we were in 1965 in spending power, it would have to be $15 an hour, not the $7.25 an hour we will see in 2 years (maybe). So no, I'm not interested in enabling this "Democratic" party to go on it's merry way pretending to represent working Americans.
Rick 92X:
"Take the easy route: Simply declare the two-party system that has governed the United States for more than 200 years corrupt and vote for the fringe candidate who will get, at best, 5 percent of the vote. This allows you to avoid taking any responsibility for directly (or more accurately, indirectly) electing lousy people to positions of power."
The Republicans aren't the only lousy politicians in office right now. Holding your nose and voting for Democrats who help them enact the Bush agenda isn't much of an improvement.
"Never mind that no third party has emerged as a real force (i.e., actually electing people to Congress) since the 1850s, which incidentally was the Republican Party. Just, hang tight and hope that history defies itself and a third party revolution occurs."
The Populist Party achieved substantial electoral success at the local, state, and national levels in the 1890s. Many of the ideas they advocated were adopted by the major parties (progressive income tax, direct elections of Senators, shorter working hours, regulation of banks and railroads, ballot initiatives, etc.)
The Socialist Party elected candidates from mayor to House of Representatives. Many of the once-radical stands they took are now seen as common sense (the abolition of child labor, female suffrage, unemployment insurance, Social Security, and many of the New Deal programs).
Ross Perot made a balanced budget the centerpiece of his campaign. After he won 19% of the vote in 1992, it became the centerpiece of the Democratic Party's economic agenda.
The longer progressives allow the Democratic Party to blackmail them with lesser evilism, the harder it will be to move the country back to the left.
"The war continues."
No, Mr. Corn, you're wrong, because, as you are well aware, THERE IS NO WAR! The United States is not AT WAR, either legally, officially or metaphorically, with ANY COUNTRY ON EARTH. The fact that we are using the weapons of war to steal oil DOES NOT MAKE IT A "WAR." Why is it so impossible to convince "liberals" and "progressives" to refer to the ILLEGAL INVASION and ILLEGAL OCCUPATION of Iraq? Rove/Cheney were able to brainwash "us" into believing we're at "war"; it's now our duty to de-program as many as possible with THE TRUTH.
I agree that the Democratic party is anything but. It, however, is our best chance to take back the presidency from the Republicans...and there IS a difference...just not enough for many of us.
As much as I like and respect Ralph Nader, he WAS a factor in the '00 election. A third party makes a difference. As it also did when Ross Perot ran in '92. Unintended consequences for both.
Right now there is an EXCELLENT opportunity to add a progressive to Congress with the election of Peter Mathews in CA's 37th Congressional seat. Go to mathewsforcongress.org for a look.
And yes, Californians do stay up late and do blog...I can't tell where the rest of you are from, however, so I don't understand that comment that the West Coast isn't on here.###
Linda -
That mentality that we need to "vote Democrat, it's our best hope" is the most horrific and misleading slogan the Dems push on progressives. I heard something similar last presidential election only it was put forth as "The better of two evils". And unfortunately, too many buy it! Yes, Nader and Perot WERE factors in their respective elections. Thank God they were! They brought to the floor of debates and the campaigns issues that would otherwise have gone unnoticed by Repubs AND the Dems! And if it hadn't been for the two parties CONTROLLING the national debates this last time, Nader and Greens and Libertarians would have been even MORE of a factor! More issues would have been discussed intelligently with more solutions brought to light for the electorate. But that's how your Dems and their supposedly arch enemies the Repubs keep their corporate agendas intact, isn't it? Of course, not allowing third party candidates to take part in national debates couldn't help their own Dem candidate this last time anyway. If it ends up in 2008 with just the two corporate parties discussing bland, prepared scripts for corporate news shows all over again we all might as well pack it in.
So electing ONE "progressive" Dem to Congress will change the face of the corporate party? I'm all for progressives getting elected to Congress but let's face it, your Matthews and any other "progressive" Dem will still be tied to their party's corporate masters' campaign finances and what their bought-out leadership in Congress wants them to vote for if they want ANY chance of advancing up the food chain.
When it comes to REAL progressive change in our government, looking outside the two corporate parties and SUPPORTING a third party choice whether it's local, state or national is the ONLY way TRUE progressive change will ever come to this government. I worked on third party campaigns enough to see the dirty tricks the Democrats played on third party progressive campaigns to turn me off to the Dem Party forever. They were worse than the Repubs! The most blatant example that comes to mind was the concerted effort by the Dem party to challenge and successfully remove Nader from electoral ballots state after state in 2004. Once Dem party members take the time to investigate their party's campaign dirty tricks against progressive third party candidates it shouldn't take long to realize you are supporting the wrong party, especially if REAL progressive change is what you want for America.
Not enough votes?
Where's the damn whip?
Funny how the Right can always count on getting their chickens in a line. There are ways to ensure this so it leads one to wonder what the true agenda of the Dems is since they can posture all they want but then whine they don't have the votes.
Get the damn votes by hook or by crook.
Something DeLay knew how to do, at least.
An Aside to RichM regarding "If the Green Party somehow got off the ground in any electorally-significant way, the forces of capitalism would do to it precisely the same things that they've done to the Democrats. You would have Wall Street firms making big donations to Green Party candidates — eventually selecting only those Greens who are willing to get on their knees as whores for corporations."
The Greens are an international entity, but to conflate the positions and behavior of parties in other countries with those of the Green Party of the United States not quite fair.
Here in the U.S., our position is quite clear (and extremely unlikely to change because it is one of the hallmarks of our program--and since Ralph Nader, the world's premier anti-corporate fighter, has had such a major influence on our platform--even the one of 2004 when he was not our candidate). To quote from the 2004 platform:
1. Political debate, public policy, and legislation should be judged on their merits, not on the quid pro quo of political barter and money.
2. We propose comprehensive campaign finance reform, including caps on spending and contributions, at the national and state level; and / or full public financing of elections to remove undue influence in political campaigns.
3. All viable candidates at the state and federal levels should have free and equal radio and television time and print press coverage.
4. We will work to ban or greatly limit political action committees and restrict soft money contributions.
5. We support significant lobbying regulation such as strict rules that disclose the extent of political lobbying via "gifts" and contributions. Broad-based reforms of government operations, with congressional reorganization and ethics laws, must be instituted. At every level of government, we support Sunshine Laws that open up the political system to access by ordinary citizens.
6. We support increasing the role of independent expository agencies, such as the General Accounting Office.
7. We recognize individual empowerment, full citizen participation, and proportional representation as the foundation of an effective and pluralistic democracy. There's more at http://www.gp.org/platform/2004/democracy.html#316100 if you're interested.
I think it would be extemely unlikely that any Wall Street firms, etc., would be willing to accept the limited, small-scale capitalism that Greens in the United States support. And since our reason to exist is intrinsically tied to the notion that corporate power must be severely limited, that corporations are not people and that money does not equal speech, it would never serve their interests to support us. Why would I say that? Because, if our electoral program were to be implemented, there would be no need for pay-to-play politics in any form--and anyone seeking a return to the "bad old days" would find it difficult to promote that idea within the party or in society at large, once people got used to the idea of fair and clean elections.
Finally, I hope that you would at least consider supporting us, if only because as the third-largest political party in the U.S. and the only one to really champion the movement toward a multiparty democracy which would open up the system to other parties from across the entire political spectrum--including the more overtly anticapitalist parties--we are in a unique position to carry the message of proportional representation to the people. We aren't afraid of fair competition--in fact we celebrate diversity in all its forms. We are fighting for the rights of all people--including our adversaries and political polar opposites--to fully participate in the political discourse.
Linda, newageartist is right. The Democrats went to legally questionable and morally indefensible lengths to keep Nader off ballots, particularly in Illinois in 2000. And they colluded with the Republicans to keep him out of the 2000 Presidential debates in spite of 70% of polled Americans wanting him in. He was even denied entry into the building although he had an audience ticket. This is democracy? You think the Democrats are showing respect for the Constitution? THEY passed the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act. Have you heard a hullabaloo from them over Bush stating his right to declare martial law? I haven't. Don't tell me they didn't know Alito and Roberts were lying in their hearings. They knew.
The rules are set up to make it almost impossible for any third/fourth/or whatever parties to get in and the 2 parties are feeding at the same corporate trough and dancing to the same tune. Different steps, same outcome. It is irresponsible of us to support this. The preelection promises they make are lies. Sure there's a difference between the parties, a few more crumbs fall off the Democratic table for all of us slobs but NOT MANY MORE. The difference is statistically insignificant. The value of your labor sank even faster under Clinton than it did under Reagan (but don't give Reagan too much credit, he was just warming up the engine). The House leadership just worked out a secret regional free trade/fast track deal with the White House giving Bush all he wants. More jobs lost here, more poverty and suffering there, more wealth for the corporations. Go ahead, vote for more of the same. Not me. If we don't draw a line. who will. If you keep on doing what you're doing, you will keep on getting what you're getting. And so will our kids. And I noticed global warming wasn't on Nancy's hundred hour or hundred day plate. And now the Democrats are going to "look at it"? Yeah, right.
And I agree with Vern. Mike Gravel pointed out that if the Democrats seriously wanted to force compliance from the House and Senate about ending the occupation they could have simply repeatedly brought the matter to a vote, holding sessions 7 days a week. He was a Senator from Alaska, he knows how the system works. They're only pretending they want to stop the funding. They are being as political and cynical with the lives of our troops and those poor Iraqis as Bush. Eight years ago Ralph Nader said the Democrats need a cold bath, but progressive Democrats have been slinking around with their tails between their legs, whining that the Republicans are worse after all, and acting like parents afraid to discipline their kids. So grow up. Be an adult and do the right and hard thing. Instead of waiting for them to give back our country, take it back.
Thank you for supporting my argument, kathyodat. I get so weary from hearing "progressive" (I use the word with reluctance) Democrats whining that their demands on their party either get watered down or dismissed completely...yet they don't make the logical move out. It's mindboggling. Like a kid who is too comfortable to leave home even though they continually get ignored by their dysfunctional parents.
Like kathyodat states, "If we don't draw the line who will? If you keep on doing what you're doing you will keep on getting what you're getting." Think about it. Make the move out.
The Progressive Democrats of America or any other left-leaning group in the Dem Party isn't going to get you there. These groups came about towards the end of Kucinich's campaign in 2004. As it wound down before the Boston convention and disheartened progressives started grumbling about the Dem Party not listening and talking of bolting to the Greens and elsewhere started appearing all over their blogs, the Dem party movers and shakers stepped in and formed groups like the PDA to corral and keep their more left-leaning members under their tent. Heck, their early logo was even a green donkey! So many stayed on, thinking this new "packaged" corner of the tent would be heard. Guess what? It's time to leave home. And bring the "Green" Kucinich with you.