America today is a fraud, not an illusion. This country needs actions by a true Statesman, not more political game playing. Staying in Iraq only benefits those not even affected by us being in Iraq.
Hoa binh

Time for people like Norman Solomon to apologize to Ralph Nader and his supporters for refusing to support unDemocrats in 2000 and 2004.

So much for the myth that if Gore had won in 2000 the US would not be at war. He participated in Clinton's war on iraqui children without comment for 8 years...

Norman Solomon can lead the apology and reconciliation movement with people who will never trust the unDems in ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.

You can't work for peace and vote for war!

So two weeks ago, a neighborhood kid, [let's call him Roger] and his little brother stop by looking for my son. These kids have grown up together in our predominantly republican neighborhood. Roger has safely returned from his second deployment to Iraq and it was lovely to see him safe and alive and healthy. We mentioned the war and Roger said that he hoped the democrats would support the troops by giving Bush the bill he asked for. He and many others truly think that soldiers would have no food, ammunition, etc. because the Democrats are the problem and not Bush. This is a problem of perception and propaganda and a political roadblock thrown up successfully once again and at the cost of American lives and the credibility of the Democratic party.

I absolutely agree that Normon Solomon should publically apologize for all the nonsense he's written & spoken about Ralph Nader over the last six years. Otherwise, he's no different from Hilary Clinton, rapidly wall-papering over the bumps in his own past. Truthfulness, including self-criticism, is a fundamental requisite for a transparent democracy.

As a factual matter: I publicly supported Ralph Nader for president in 2000. I opposed his campaign for president in swing states in 2004.
-- Norman Solomon

I believe the Green Party candidate David Cobb took the same position as Solomon in swing states. And the Green Party is our only national truly progressive party. And Cobb is a true progressive on the issues. The two-party system has an inherent paradox: we can vote our ideals and help the party we most oppose or we can vote the lesser evil of the two. There is no simple solution. The main tactic *could be* a pre-election progressive coalition that would negotiate with pro-war, pro-corporate Democrats for at least a semi-progressive candidate, or progressive cabinet appointments, or progressives in uncontested or easy seats in the House or Senate, or a solid commitment to pursue a multiparty democracy. Or all of those. But that would take a progressive unity we don't have yet. I think Solomon is a true progressive. And I think Nader is too. Their differences are tactical differences in dealing with two-party system paradoxes, not substantive differences of worldview.

The democrats don't want to stop the war in Iraq that's plain enough when they give a criminal president more money to fund his killing but the real reason is the $1 billion LARGEST EMBASSY IN THE WORLD JUST OUTSIDE OF BAGHDAD THAT WILL SOON BE COMPLETE. IT'S A CITY WITHIN A CITY IT HAS EVERYTHING ANYONE WOULD NEED 300 HOUSES,BOWLING ALLEY
THEATER ALL THE COMFORTS OF HOME.IF THE DEMO'S WERE SERIOUS ABOUT STOPPING THE WAR THEYY WOULD CUT OFF THE FUNDING FOR THIS MONSTROSITY.THE BUSH CONTROLLED MEDIA NEVER SAYS A WORD ABOUT THIS DISGRACE,

Ralph Nader is a selfish a--h---

It is not about life and death. It is not about the difference of worldview.

Count the votes.

There are too few peace minded representatives. The anti-war representatives are only in reality anti-war because the USA is again losing another war . Americans like winners: "winning isn't everything it is the only thing."

In the Senate, Democrats who support aggression in the Middle East and in the Americas insulate the President from removal from office.

However, the really sad part is the difference on the war between Cheney and us is that he actively supports the war and we passively support the war.

Much work on our part will be needed.

In the face of the chicanery, doubletalk and hypocrisy all too evident in the mouthings of our presidential aspirants, I have seen my own political sentiments undergo a complete turnaround. Only one presidential candidate of of the lot has consistently spoken with intelligence and honesty - and he has been disowned by his own Republican party. That person is Ron Paul. Keep your eye on the processes by which the vested interests will malign and discredit this courageous and honest human being. The country needs him, but observe how Ron Paul will be reduced to a status of non-entity.

"No matter how many Democrats are in Congress, they won't end this war unless an antiwar movement develops enough grassroots strength to compel them to do so."

So thirty million in the streets worldwide, millions of emails, calls, letters. The 2006 landslide. Screams from Vets, Moms, Dads, NGOs and nearly every leader on the planet. A Mt. Everest of crimes, undisputed.

Still not enough of a "grassroots" effort? Come on, people, figure it out: oil. Giant embassy. oil. 14 perm mil bases. oil. oil. oil. Obscene war profiteering. oil. Grassroots efforts versus that? Good luck...

Well Mr. Solomon, just tell us why you opposed someone who called foul on the rotten system? Does anyone who is not a babe-in-the-woods believe Democrats are believable?

People, especially ones with audiences and enthusiastic supporters like Norman Solomon, should start supporting candidates who speak the truth.

We are tired of all these absurd arguments about what is pragmatic and "realistic".

The truth is always realistic, though not always comforting.

Clyde Paige: you don't know a thing about Ralph Nader, do you? I'll bet that you have never heard him speak or read any of his books. You certainly seem to be the last person alive who still believes--despite mountains of incontrovertible evidence--the canards of the Democratic Party Scapegoat and Slander Machine about the election of 2000. Have you ever considered the fact that he is directly responsible for more meaningful legislation than most people in Congress? Have you never seen any benefit from the many public-interest organizations Nader founded? Never paid attention to the fact that for so long he has been right on the issues of corporate power, so-called "free trade," single-payer universal health care, civil liberties and civil rights, and electoral reform, just to name a few?

I'll bet that you even refuse to admit that because of seat belts, air bags and his work on environmental and food-safety issues, Nader has saved more people's lives than any other living American.

Ralph Nader did not run for president out of selfish motives—he did it because the status quo in Washington started shutting out consumer and citizen groups and there was no way to get their attention but to start competing with them on the only playing field they recognized—electoral politics. You completely ignore the fact that he could not have run without the support of millions of people like me who also found that their voices were being ignored by the professional corporate-imperialist politicians. He represented us, so supposedly we are all selfish "A-Hs" because we dared to claim our constitutional right to vote for the person who best represents our views. Would you rather voters had FEWER voices and choices in the political arena rather than MORE voices and choices? Hey, why not go for Soviet-style one-party rule? We pretty much have it now anyway.

It seems that your misplaced anger at Nader is just covering up the fact that you want to take away the right to vote from anyone who does not support the Democrats or the Republicans. What a bunch of crap!

Norman Solomon writes in "Deadly Illusions" - "No matter how many Democrats are in Congress, they won't end this war unless an antiwar movement develops enough grassroots strength to compel them to do so." Then he quotes from Progressive Democrats of America's recent statement that "the approach of the Democratic leadership has utterly failed …" He is right about the necessity to develop enough grassroots strength but wrong about his support of PDA as a means to accomplish this. An antiwar movement cannot gain strength if it follows the lead of an organization like Progressive Democrats of America. PDA works as an agent to siphon off and weaken the strength of an outraged revolutionary resistance by promising that they will lead a revolt within the Democratic Party then failing to do any such thing. This has diverted energy out of the streets and grassroots and into the folds of the Democratic Party. Their function has been to offer hope when nothing is there - that something can be done by working inside the party then accomplishing next to nothing. Just another deadly illusion.

Ralph Nader lives a life of service to public interest and has done more for the common good that everyone on this forum combined.

We were betrayed in 2000 by the Supreme Court of the United States.

We were betrayed in 2000 by Al Gore not pressing his case in the Senate and not allowing others to raise the issue (see Fahrenheit 911).

We were betrayed in 2000 by Florida election officials and voting machine vendors.

We were betrayed in 2000 by an incurious mainstream media unwilling to investigate and report these other problems.

We were betrayed in 2000 by Congressman Feeney of Florida who alledgedly commissioned software from Yang Enterprises for electronic voting machines to "control the vote in south Florida". (see Bradblog.com).

If Nader is the straw that broke the camel's back, well, at least he tried to bring meaningful dialog to the campaign. Funny that no one blames the piles of straw bales and haystacks from the other culpable parties.

Norman Solomon says: "No matter how many Democrats are in Congress, they won't end this war unless an antiwar movement develops enough grassroots strength to compel them to do so."

The Greens are a grassroots antiwar movement with enough strength to compel the government. Some progressives have not yet shown interest in the Greens because the corporate Dems have and are still feeding them anti-Green, anti-Nader propaganda.

One good politician can sometimes make a difference, but a grassroots movement will almost ALWAYS make the difference. Look what the former non-voting evangelicals did for the Repugs.

"No matter how many Democrats are in Congress, they won't end this war unless an antiwar movement develops enough grassroots strength to compel them to do so."

Hear, Hear!
This cannot be said too often

I am afraid that to the rest of us, those who do not live in the US, the US has become a pariah nation.

The huge amount of goodwill that it gained when the twin tower attack took place on the 11th of September 2001 was almost immediately squandered by the party in power. The opposition party, by its failure to take real action has confirmed the impression that the US has no moral fibre and no skerrick whatsoever of moral authority.

The Democrats are more concerned with electoral backlash than unpholding any standards. If they were really interested they would be starting impeachment processes, even though they know they cannot succeed initially, rather than the tokenism of the funding bill which they knew would be vetoed. The funding bill allowed them to say "well, we did our best but it was out of our hands". Thye can now claim that they have not been gutless about it (and in the meantime Teddy Kennedy, along with other Democrats, after taking money from the drug companies, supports a bill which allows the drug companies to continue to rip US people off untrammelled by any real scrutiny or safeguards - the US Congress is rotten)

World respect for America? RIP

Well meaning or not, Kucinich and the PDA are keeping progressives in the hands of the corporate Dems. By making the people lawmakers, Gravel is empowering the people and depowering politicians.

Not another bloody dime will I give MoveOn, the dem party or any of the dem candidates, with the exception of Kucinich. But they don't need my money, do they? They are in the pockets of big oil, as much so as the fascist republicans.
My kids marched in 2003 before the invasion with a banner "no blood for oil". Those of us who said then that the invasion was all about oil were mocked as naive. Now there are none of the lies left standing. What worries me is that if the 'pubs (and the complicit dems) were to admit that, yes, indeed, it was always, and still is, about oil, and plainly stated that "defeat" would mean the end of their bloated suburban life styles, SUV's and profligate and disproportionate consumption of the world's energy and resources, that the US electorate would unhesitatingly endorse continuing the slaughter.
As for Nader, I voted for him in 2000, but he didn't cost the dems the election. Apparently it wasn't worth fighting for, and they let Jim Baker and the Supremes steal it.

PDA is right on the money, regarding the farsical cave-in of the Democratic leadership.

However, all Democracts must look at the root of what turned our nation upside down . . . 9/11.

In celebrated theologian/author, David Ray Griffin's, groundbreaking book "Debunking the 9/11 Debunkers" he methodically shows that we have all been lied into a permanent war economy, and endless war, based on a falseflag operation. False flag attacks have occurred throughout history, and involve governments attacking their own people, in order to fool them into supporting wars and giving up personal liberties in the name of "safety."

Many of my long time friends in the Democratic movement, raise their eyes doubtfully, saying, "If that was the case people would be spilling the beans, media would be rooting out the story."

Fact is that corporate media has eviscerated and character lynched ANYONE who questions 9/11. We've seen the media, corporate and left, sit on huge stories, like Saddam Hussein's son-in-law saying BEFORE the war that WMD had been destroyed. We now see the corporate media sitting on the fact that Cheney appears to have been one of the prostitution wrings customers. We see the media sitting on the fact that the yellow-cake memo was a forgery that appears to have come from people in our government.

How many scandals does the media have to sit on before you question 9/11, the root of the destruction of our democracy? How many lies does this administration have to tell before it becomes apparent, given the overwhelming evidence, that they lied to us about 9/11?

We blame the Democratic leadership for playing a double hand. Yet, aren't we ALL playing a double hand when we pretend that controlled demolition didn't bring down the three WTC buildings on 9/11, and we pretend that the controlled demolition substance "thermate" has not been found on WTC debris by a renowned physicist, and when we pretend Cheney didn't order multiple war games on 9/11, in order to confuse the DOD and FAA so that all normal FAA/DOD flight intercept procedures failed on 9/11?

It is time for all of us to stop double dealing. Look at PatriotsQuestion911.org to learn of a growing army of military and intelligence experts who now believe that 9/11 was an inside job. Youtube "9/11 Mysteries" and "$20 bucks" to view 9/11 video documentaries. Educate others.

Norman is right when he talks about the need for real street heat, both inside and outside the Democratic Party. Let us run, run, run peace candidates to challenge these hypocritical Democratic Party leaders and hound them at every turn to remind them of their complicity. Green? Blue? Progressive. We must work together on issue-oriented campaigns and acts of resistance that stretch beyond the ballot box -- into the schools and the military.

Billdouglas: I always felt it was an inside job, from the moment those towers imploded. Another photo op with Georgie boy reading MY PET GOAT for "place of innocence," at the time of the great crime. Since Bush family values are linked not only to oil but Carlyle's war (profits) sales, then war is good business; and any company that prizes war is hardly going to shed tears over any loss of life. Some think the line is drawn because it was American lives. Please. That takes us right back to our own troops as collateral damage in a war launched on fixed cause and falsified "evidence." Plus it's a little more than convenient that Bin Laden was allowed to simply slip away. Rove knows there are enough ignorant Americans (the way a good defense attorney counts on the few stooges on the jury) to believe ANY story; and to the uninformed, ALL Arabs share a common interest, especially when the churches are screaming holy war, and setting up a hate-based faith-oriented religious divide. The only other plausible reason for all the synchronicity (like 911 happening in time to cut off viable inquiry into the 2000 election debacle and its MANY anomalies) is that there really IS a dark side, and naturally its powers would favor the likes of those who could bring the most pain and destruction to mankind, not to mention earth itself (i.e. global warming). We have formerly entered the NEW Dark Age, and if we survive, a future phase of Enlightenment will follow.

pda alone is not the be all and end all, but neither is it designed to siphon away energy from the vibrant left. pda is part of a broad multifaceted peace and justice movement that is building and growing and trying to populate Congress with more Barbara Lees, Jim McGoverns and Lynn Woolsey's, all genuine anti-imperialist, anti-militaristic progressives. so let's find what we can agree on and pursue it, not squabble amongst ourselves. it seems only when it comes to backing progressive dems or 3rd party candidates that we disagree in practice anyhow. so dems shouldn't blame 3rd party candidates or advocates and third party advocates shouldn't blame progressive dems. we each do what our conscience and intelligence tells us is the most effective thing to do in building a broad based movement and defeating the reactionaries and the right. trying to force agreements in the few areas where we cannot agree is simply the wrong way to spend our time. good luck greens. good luck progressive dems. we each hope the other succeeds. remember, the pool of organizable progressives, inside and outside the dem party, is large enough so that one groups' success does not auger the other groups' failure. we can all win, espec if we stop fighting one another.

The NYTimes/CBS poll still shows the majority of the people polled do not want the funds cut. We have work to do. We need to stop fighting with each other and start talking to our friends and neighbors so that the next time the pollsters call the majority of those polled want the funds cut off. I know they twist the questions so we need to really do our homework. How many people have you spoken to today who aren't already on your list of true beievers?

Why are we debating the what ifs of Ralph Nader, the 2000 and 2004 elections, conspiracy theories, etc. That debate is useless. It's about time to face reality. The Iraq War is a "criminal" adventure advanced by the neo-cons in the Republican Party and in this Administration. They have been enabled by the hawkish policy of the Democratic Leadership Conference and it's membership (Including Hilary Clinton, Joe Biden and Joe Leiberman). This criminality must be addressed by investigations and hearings on these crimes by Congress and then proceeding with impeachment if required.

As far as the statement by Mr. Soloman that "No matter how many Democrats are in Congress, they won't end this war unless an antiwar movement develops enough grassroots strength to compel them to do so.", I feel that the results of the 2006 elections should the grassroots strength in voting in numerous Progressive Democrat Candidates. This was done in spite of DLC efforts by Rahm Emmanuel to get "blue dog" Democrats nominated and when failing to do that, not actively supporting those Progressive Dems.

I feel that in 2008 we can get an avalanche of progressive candidates nominated and elected because of the Democratic Leadership's sellout of the American people on getting us out of Iraq, backing a completely flawed Immigration Bill and by negotiating a "Secret Trade Deal" with the K Street backed Trade Negotiator that "NO" Labor, Environmental, Family Farm, Small Business, Human Rights or Progressive Organization in this Country will support.

The best way for Progressive Democrats of America to show their clout now would be to mount a huge campaign in support of Dennis Kucinich who represents every great idea and issue in the PDA platform. The way to show our power and shift the agenda, is to take a leaf from Al Gore's new book about using the power of the internet for grassroots organizing, and supporting Dennis' pitch to get 1,000,000 peaceniks to send him $50 for his campaign. This would prove OUR power of the purse--surely there's more than a million of us against this damned war--and raising $50 million for Dennis would make headlines for weeks--all they talk about now is Clinton's $27 million and Obama's $26 million. What a boon that would be for the progressive movement--to show that we have more money than they do and make our money talk for an end to the war, universal health care, nuclear abolition, peace in space, fair trade, not free-for-all trade and all the other good things Kucinich is promoting. Let's put our money where our mouth is and create our own reality of a powerful peace movement behind a principled progressive, leading the charge. (Did you all see Dennis' one hour lecture yesterday on the secret oil deal the Democrats are supporting to privatize Iraq's oil in favor of the US based multinational oil companies--unbeknownst to even the members of Congress who are voting for this "benchmark", conceived and planed by Cheney, even before we attacked Iraq?) Let's get serious and follow a winning strategy by putting all our muscle behind our man, Kucinich!

The best way for Progressive Democrats of America to show their clout now would be to mount a huge campaign in support of Dennis Kucinich who represents every great idea and issue in the PDA platform. The way to show our power and shift the agenda, is to take a leaf from Al Gore's new book about using the power of the internet for grassroots organizing, and supporting Dennis' pitch to get 1,000,000 peaceniks to send him $50 for his campaign. This would prove OUR power of the purse–surely there's more than a million of us against this damned war–and raising $50 million for Dennis would make headlines for weeks–all they talk about now is Clinton's $27 million and Obama's $26 million. What a boon that would be for the progressive movement–to show that we have more money than they do and make our money talk for an end to the war, universal health care, nuclear abolition, peace in space, fair trade, not free-for-all trade and all the other good things Kucinich is promoting. Let's put our money where our mouth is and create our own reality of a powerful peace movement behind a principled progressive, leading the charge. (Did you all see Dennis' one hour lecture yesterday on the secret oil deal the Democrats are supporting to privatize Iraq's oil in favor of the US based multinational oil companies–unbeknownst to even the members of Congress who are voting for this "benchmark", conceived and planed by Cheney, even before we attacked Iraq?) Let's get serious and follow a winning strategy by putting all our muscle behind our man, Kucinich!

Thank goodness we have a principled voice like Norman Solomon among us.

Like it or not, we have a two party system and unless progressives come together to elect enough progressive Democrats who will pass sweeping electoral reforms, we will forever be saddled with it.

PDA offers a path to that eventuality, asking its members not to just join the party but to become active in the party as delegates, officers, candidates, committee members, etc. in order to infuse it with progressives. The intent is to defuse the power of the corporatist DLC which has taken over its leadership, the very thing with which the Greens have a problem in the first place. More and more, the Democratic rank and file is becoming anti-corporatist, pro single-payer, pro-sustainable energy,
pro-peace! PDA's role is to link this inside the party action to the outside growing progressive movement.

It is not surprising that some Greens have more consternation towards the Democrats than they have for the GOP, who has dragged us to the brink of destruction. These Greens wrongly fear PDA and groups like them because if successful, it threatens the very survival of their Party. Progressivism is about power-sharing; and other Greens, David Cobb and Medea Benjamin (a PDA Advisory Board member) understand that it can be a symbiotic relationship that brings us together to unite behind shared issues.

Greens (and Democrats) who sling arrows at their allies instead of our shared opposition, play right into the divide and conquer scenario of the corporatists in both major parties and help ensure their grasp on power. It's the same old song and dance – party over politics.

Greens proudly use a consensus decision-making process. Many embrace the idea of consensus, while others abuse it and fail to seek it in the political arena where relationships are built and alliances are formed. This is why I quit the Green Party and became a Progressive Democrat.

And for the record, we're lucky to have Ralph Nader among us, too.

P.S. Thank you Norman Soloman for taking the time to join in the discussion. Instead of writing and running, you showed that you were interested in what those of us in the non-pundit class have to say and that is a rare thing. I hope other writers will follow your example and talk WITH us, not just AT us.

We can all point fingers at various progressives for various reasons, but progressives aren't the problem. There are too few of us and we wield too little influence. While we fight each other, we're letting the real culprits prosper. Rather than fighting about who's to blame for 2000 or 2004, let's remember it's 2007 and our nation is fighting in and occupying Iraq in an illegal, immoral, insane and counterproductive war!

I don't know why anyone thinks Norman Solomon and Progressive Democrats of America should apologize or endure accusations for their leadership on this issue. PDA is working to organize the grass roots for peace, justice, the environment, health care and more. No one way, one voice, or one organization will appeal to all of us, but each of us can and should contribute to peace in the ways we find most effective. Personally, I work with PDA, Cindy Sheehan, Code Pink and anyone else who'll have me. I walk the halls of Congress, lobby elected officials, organize, march, fund raise, write letters to the editor, design websites and flyers - basically pitch in any way I can.

I know PDA is working closely with many many others to encourage as many Democrats as possible to oppose the war. PDA is helping leaders like Lynn Woolsey, Jim McGovern, Barbara Lee and others in the Democratic Party reach out to their colleagues to stop this war and occupation. PDA isn't "siphoning off" anything - except support for the war and occupation. I hope people will look at PDA as an important ally and organizer in the effort for peace.

PDA offers the best hope for change in the status quo of Democratic party politics by employing an inclusive, inside the party from outside activism approach. I agree with Mike Hersh in the previous post that "No one way, one voice, or one organization will appeal to all of us, but each of us can and should contribute to peace in the ways we find most effective."

PDA's real value is that it is the most effective movement within the Democratic party. The proof of PDA's effectiveness can be found dating back to 2005 at the 2nd anniversary of PDA in Washington, D.C., when Will Pitt said that we should look out the window because the people are with us. Every poll since then has steadily shown the American people aligning with the stated goals of PDA until we enjoy over 70% support of PDA's foundational principles today. The leadership of PDA has taken the time to cultivate relationships with the likes of John Conyers, Cindy Sheehan, Jim McGovern, Medea Benjamin, Maxine Waters, Tom Hayden, Dennis Kucinich, Mimi Kennedy, Lynn Woolsey, Barbara Lee and a host of state and chapter organizations that are moving forward on election integrity, global climate change, single payer healthcare, economic justice, and ending the occupation of Iraq.

PDA is a tangible change agent in the Democratic party owing to its inclusive "big tent" philosophy. I haven't found any group or organization or movement that has been able to change minds and influence the thinking of decision makers that leads to real change as do the members and leadership of Progressive Democrats of America.

As a member of PDA, I have to say they have the most viable, practical, and sensible approach to changing this. They are not the fault, they are the solution. As Mike Hersh points out, PDA is on the forefront of pushing the party to be the party we want it to be.

What we need, is all the those outside the Party, all those upset with the Party the way it operates, and those who like to complain but throw their hands up in despair to come together, get on board the PDA bandwagon and approach, and take back the Party and make it something we will be proud to be associated with. This takes time, money, and effort, so lets get working. www.pdamerica.org

We just saw how money trumps all. Some here think that if we give Kucinich and the PDA money progressives can win. How many times have we heard this and similar versions. Maybe tomorrow... if we just wait a little longer... if we support this or that progressive Dem... we have to go slowly... we have to unite around the Dem Party... we have to give Dems more money... voting third party is wasting your vote... etc. and etc. All the while sucking on the corporate teat.

Nader and the Greens think that money in politics is the problem. Corporations bribe both parties and this time around they are giving more to Dems.

Politicians will sell out. That's why the Green Party takes no Big Money bribes. One here said he (she) left the Greens because some of them did not always abide by their concensus decision-making values. He joined the PDA and is happy there, though Dems don't practice concensus decision making at all and are bought by Big Money, today by Big Oil, tomorrow by somebody else.

By joining the Greens NOW, progressives will have the power today that Dems promise we will have tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes.

Frank1569 wrote "So thirty million in the streets worldwide, millions of emails, calls, letters. The 2006 landslide. Screams from Vets, Moms, Dads, NGOs and nearly every leader on the planet. A Mt. Everest of crimes, undisputed... "

Unfortunately, sadly, desperately, yes. Not enough. Norman Solomon is right.

The 2006 landslide did not touch the Blue Dogs and barely grazed some others. Until we have many more marching on Main Street USA, until the Blue Dogs and other so-called Democrats and "moderate" Republicans are getting heat from their constituents, we in this movement shall remain "the usual suspects" calling in and marching. I know, because I'm one of them.

We need help from a sleeping John and Jane Q. Public, lulled by the media!

The more we snipe at each other, the less power we shall have.

I was in the Capitol lobbying with PDA in March, the day of the House floor vote on the Supplemental. I was with Jim McGovern, for the last hour before he voted. We called on and thanked Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters, and Diane Watson for their votes, and thanked and spent time with Lynne Woolsey, after a very hard day.

Our progressives there need help! What does one do when the Blue Dogs undermine the Democratic majority? As the saying goes, "You had to be there."

PDA, by inspiring its members here in California to become Progressive Delegates to the Convention in April, along with other Progressives, got an Impeachment Resolution against Bush and Cheney passed by that Convention. I know about that, too. I was one of those Delegates.

Now Massachusetts has passed such a Resolution.

Bush does not know what "hard work" is. We do. You do.

Norman Solomon is right about the need for street heat and Congressional heat. We all agree about this Administration. We PDA's, Greens, Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich loyalists, all, we cannot do this alone, and must above all, not undermine each other in our common purpose.

If our nation had 16 parties, how could we achieve a powerful coalition pursuing that course?

How do we reach our sleeping neighbors? That is the vital question today, and Norman Solomon has opened the door.

I for one will be speaking at the local Rotary and other Clubs (as my progressive Congressman has asked!)and to anyone else who will listen. Have Power Point Presentation Will Travel! I presented it twice last week.

This is our challenge - we must reach outside our ranks, and stop preaching to only our minority choir.

Seamusgib has not spent enough time, if any, in PDA.

[I already posted this on another thread, but it turns out there's little response action there, so forgive me if it seems familiar.]

Up until a few days ago I was a Democrat advocating voting for "the best we can get", but I'm wavering. This funding bill took me to the edge and the lobbying and immigration "reforms" about pushed me over.

Speaking against a two-year wait before an elected official could join a lobbying firm, a rep from Massachusetts (!) whined that they would be taking away his livelihood. Boo-hoo; I guess his gov't pension won't cut it. With 50% of our reps going to lobbying firms expecting them to cut themselves off is a pipe-dream. Their argument is that running for office is so expensive they can't pull the rug out from under themselves. That's the whole point! We want the money out of the process - lobby money, union money, soft money - to take back our democracy from the super-rich and give "fringe" candidates a chance to win on their ideas, not their wallets.

A lot of you guys are touting Kuchinich and/or Paul. We know neither will get their party's nomination, but could we get them to form a coalition ticket? It would seem many disenfrancised and fed-up voters of both parties might be willing to pull the lever for a couple of disenfranchised and fed-up candidates. Rather than running against each other's party they could run against the corrupt system - a platform of end the war, real election/campaign reform, and real energy reform would make an enticing start.

billdouglas - Indeed, why didn't NORAD respond to those off-course jets? As soon as their transponders were turned off interceptors should have been in the air. And why was al Qaeda immediately named the perpetrator without any investigation, when they hadn't yet claimed responsibility? NSA head Condi testified she had never heard of al Qaeda until after 9/11, and the US Anti-Terrorism Chief (a man named Dick Cheney) had never mentioned the group to anyone in an official capacity. Clinton's people had tried to get them to understand the dangers of al Qaeda, but they were focussed on "Star Wars" and getting Enron more oil.

The thing that has most puzzled me about the response to 9/11 was the way the Secret Service handled news of the attacks. VP Cheney was IMMEDIATELY hustled into the secure underground bunker while PRES Bush was left alone, all but senseless, in an open, unsecured classroom for at least 20 minutes. Are we to believe the Secret Service doesn't have an immediate action plan for such an eventuality? You would have thought they would have formed a human shield around him as they forcibly removed him to a secure location. He was finally taken away to a waiting Air Force One. We were later told that AF1 was a target that day, and in fact, some "mysterious Arabs" had tried to get near AF1 the previous day using phony press passes. If AF1 was a target, and had been nearly compromised the previous day, why would they put the President on board? If Cheney was indeed in on 9/11, could it be he intended W as the ultimate martyr, so he could replace the fallen hero Chimpy to the accolades of a grieving populace?

Reading these cries of outrage take me back almost 50 years - and, nothing has changed. The gored-oxen herd together in hopes that sheer numbers will save them - That and the perfect candidate of course.

The wolves, reveling in the carnage, are the same old men who always get a hard-on when young men follow the battle call and die for the sins of their elders.

You'd think with Viagra, the old farts would just 'See Alice' and leave the kids alone.

But it's not just the guys - I'd just like to have even one woman politician who wasn't trying to prove she has the biggest balls in the Capital.

One thing I've figured out [two, when I think about it] Geo Washington was right about political parties, and Thomas Jefferson was right about needing a revolution every now and then to water the Tree of Liberty.

IMO, the Tree is terminal if Bush stays in power, and trusting that yet another election will correct the problem is a waste of time and money.

It would seem that the only grassroots movement that would have any impact in this new world of premeditated, pre-recorded sound bites would be strike, boycott, assasination or all out revolution. Millions of anti-war protesters were made to look like dozens by the mainstream media. The document entitled Rebuilding America's Defenses, a report for the Project for the New American Century, specifically called for "defending the American homeland" "fighting and winning multiple, simultaneous major theatre wars" "performing constabulary duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions" and to "transform US forces to exploit the revolution in military affairs" This was written and signed by, among others, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Kagan and Dick Cheney in September of 2000. All of these goals were easily accomplished (well except for the winning part) by the events of 9/11. Couple those coincidences with the documented fact that futures trading on American Airlines stocks more than doubled the previous record on 9/10/2001 and you have a helluva lot of coincidences, all of which were extremely profitable for the neofools. At least enough for a wee bit of investigation. But Bush even attempted to thwart the 9/11 commission until he was sure he had covered his tracks sufficiently, and had in place, the proper person to lead the investigation in Henry Kissinger. If anyone doesn't believe in conspiracy theories, then just look at the facts. Rome is burning, get out your fiddles.

talk-talk-talk

I read all the above and only smiled when I got to Spike's post. So true, Spike.
Everyone has an opinion as to our country's dilemna, including writers like Solomon. And isn't it so ironic that everyone seems to dance around the elephant in the room without wanting to admit it's in the room. No matter how much progressives talk, talk, talk the real issue here is that democracy as we grew up knowing it has vanished from this country. No Nader, no Kucinich, no Paul will bring it back. The corporatists have succeeded. Politicians are in their pockets either though special interests or the mere fact that they bankroll their campaigns, the public has been dumbed down through manipulation of truth by their own media, and progressives with valid, pointed questions have been made to look like fools, conspiracy theorists or worse, "unAmerican".
I pose the question no one wants to ask, "What's the future hold for Americans if honest thought-provoking discourse and integral leadership in government is all but gone?"

Apparently, Nader is God. If only we'd voted for Him. If only we'd supported Him. All of our current ills can be traced back to his not getting elected.

C'mon, people. Nader has NO foreign policy experience. The current resident of the White House also had no such experience, and look at the mess HE got us into.

Nader's no panacea, folks.

Newageartist: There are powers beyond the electorate, especially when its collective cognizance has been fogged by false "news," and its vote rendered near meaningless. I am talking about elemental forces, laws of the universe, aspects that transcend human "free" will. Whether the grand equalizing forces take shape as the end of oil, the implosion of US debt, a revolution of sorts, or nature saying she's had enough... things CANNOT continue as thus much longer. MANY prophecies speak of a vast phase of transition, which some call an ending. It's the END of a phase, that's for sure; and what forms will emerge from the transformation are yet to be seen. In astrology Pluto represents the forces that tear down in order to rebuild, what Eastern mysticism refers to as Shiva and Vishnu principles. Pluto's orbit is 248 years and the last time it was in Capricorn (a highly rigid, control-fear based sign) was during our Revolution. It's headed there and begins the cycle in 2008. I am writing a book that uses the ancient "as above, so below" cosmic reference system to explain why we are in this repressive phase. Just as the curtain closes at intermission so the stagehands can move the scenery around, we are pretty much at that phase metaphorically. The appointments to the courts, the evisceration of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the erasing of Habeas Corpus, etc are the changes to the big set... but the activity in the next act is yet to be revealed. Michael Lutin (another astrologer) wrote about this in Vanity Fair's January edition, and did a good job apart from leaving out one central planetary player. From 2010-2015 the US is caught in a very very challenging cosmic squeeze and liberty is the main thing at issue. When I hosted a Florida Keys television program for nearly 8 years, before the changes to media had it taken off the air (thank you, conservatives!) I used to explain that astrology refers to the "cosmic weather report." WHAT we elect to do with the information, the trends that like weather systems flow over us, is the aspect of free will. That cosmic weather report is extremely tough, and whether we use the Mayan calendar as secondary reference system, or any number of Indigenous prophecies, mankind is facing quite a changing of the guard. Like other posters I have considered leaving the US, but the conservative trends are also underway in other nations; although notably NOT in South America where progressive ideals have taken root.

"Revolution never come with a warning
Revolution never send you an omen
Revolution just arrive like the morning
Ring the alarm
We've come to wake up the snoring...."
----MF & Sprhd

What? That Norman apologize to Nader for not voting for him in 2000 and in 2004? The egomaniacal Nader? Omnipotent thought! Phew!

Those who voted for Nader in 2000 are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in in the world today, however much they might want to spin Nader's narcissism into political saviorhood -- if that means demonizing Gore.

Norman's articles on war seem to spring from the kind of ethical concern that moves me. I am saddened to learn for the first time that he voted for Nader in 2000. Given the popular political inclinations at that time -- either Gore or Bush -- a vote for Nader was either sociologically naive or just ideologically illusory. Whatever the case, a vote for Nader was a vote for George Bush. Any subsequent lamentations about the consequences of that 2000 political choice is, really, self-reproachment.

seamusgib is correct. Stop supporting the Democrats or any organization such as the PDA who supports them. This government consists of two sides of the same ugly coin..there is little to no difference, they are all corporate whores. Until people really believe we can vote in a third party we never will! Stop voting for these elite idiots! You keep voting for elites like they are going to represent you! What a laugh! They will only support other elites and corporations who give them HUGE campaign donations.

It makes me sick to hear people say, "A vote for Nader was a vote for Bush." That is just the kind of corporate propaganda that keeps a third party from emerging. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

(thanks Norman for the insight) The cure for despair is action. PDA is in action. How do you move a multi-trillion dollar economy with over 300 million citizens? Slowly. Glacially. If you're looking for instant gratification you've come to the wrong planet.

Yes, Crony the Clown is in control of the circus... for now. Crony is in trouble though. he knows it and you should too. It's not being reported in the macro-media - it's in the micro-media - email, enewsletters & eaction alerts. It's not even on the blogs or the websites.

Friends, this ain't the Sixties. The Internet is one-half of the new street. The other half is real people meeting up face to face, debating the issues and taking action.

If we get Internet Integrity (Net neutrality), Clean Money (full public campaign financing) and Secure Elections (counting every vote as cast) Crony is done. Crony know that. That's why he is putting up such a fight, especially with the Electeds he has seduced. We will prevail.

Join us inside the machine, the Democratic Party. Join us outside the machine, in every public demonstration against Crony and his cohorts. Have the toughmindedness that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. exemplified. And remember; there's no easy walk to freedom...

DON'T BACKDOWN - DON'T BREAKDOWN - BREAKTHROUGH!
STAND UP... SHOW UP... & SPEAK UP!
NOW IS THE TIME
THIS IS THE PLACE
WE ARE THE PEOPLE

Like diablodog752 said so correctly "two sides of the same ugly coin" is a good description of our present state of affairs. And anyone who calls himself a "progressive" is only kidding themselves if they think working "inside" the two headed money machine will bring about change.

riozen, we don't have the luxury of change at the speed of a glacier! This country is being destroyed from the inside out and the PDA isn't going to do anything but divert real progressives from the work that should be done. The Democratic Party is a hand puppet of the corporate elite who call the shots in this country. Heck wasn't it "Mr.Democrat" Bill Clinton who practically single-handedly destroyed the organized labor movement in this country by signing NAFTA and the WTO into law? And now the fiasco with the War vote. And in the meantime, progressive Dems are talking glacial change. Geeze. No matter how you look at it, it's still two sides of the same ugly coin.

I think I've got it. Go into a country, uninvited, kill a shitload of people, destroy any stability they might have had, totally fuck up their infrastructure and then leave because they wont take control of things. (stand up so we can stand down, whatever that means.) Yes, I have it, at last I have it.

It is incredible to see all the comments. You are all arguing about politicans and political process. WHEN ARE ANY OF YOU GOING TO REALISE THAT THE POLITICAL PROCESS THAT YOU ALL DEBATE WITH SUCH FERVOUR AND PASSION ONLY EXISTS AND HAS POWER BECAUSE YOU ALL ALLOW AND SUPPORT IT. Just say NO by NOT giving them the adulation that the constituency normally bestows upon them. Try to band together and not attend their self gratifying public events.In the past this would have been futile as there were a majority of the people that were still happy to suck up to the politicans and believed their selfserving crap. Things are changing, there is enough dissent and anger now to regain the power of the people instead of the assumed power that ego maniacal politicans have. You just have to have the resolve to do it, not as individuals but as a collective. I do not live in the USA, but I do believe that people of good heart and conscience are still the majority in all countries where free thinking is still allowed.